The Daily Zeitgeist - Getting Paranormal With Jack Wagner 06.12.24

Episode Date: June 12, 2024

In episode 1691, Jack and Miles are joined by host of Otherworld, Jack Wagner, to discuss… Otherworld Questions, UFOs, Are Ghosts Real? And more!  LISTEN: Freak by Liv EastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

the guy woke up in another reality i didn't listen to it it's it's really cool you should check it out but like he goes to he's like do it working this summer job for his dad like clearing brush he's like off in the woods and like doing these like they take these three wheelers out there him and this other kid that he's working with like 16 or something and they're like guys a storm is coming they start like racing back like the storm catches them like they're flying like speeding as fast as they can and then they hit this log and he like remembers seeing like the ground flying below him like he at super fast speed and then like looks up and sees his head is headed for

this like stump that is going to like demolish him and then the next thing he knows he's waking up in those woods on a sunny day and doesn't know how he got there and everyone the guy he was with is just coming out of the woods being like yeah man

I just took a piss break. And you said you're going to wait there. And just comes back. But everything else was unchanged for the most part? Well, there was no storm. But it was like a different day. It was earlier in the day. So he did the Theragun hard reset, basically?

He did the Theragun hard reset. Exactly. Wow. set basically he did the paragon hard reset exactly wow i'm jess casavetto executive producer of the hit netflix documentary series dancing for the devil the 7m tiktok cult and i'm cleo gray former member of 7m films and shekinah church and we're the host of the new podcast forgive me Me For I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and Shekinah Church. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti.

And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer,

we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports.

Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry, Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hello, the internet, and welcome to season 342 episode 3 of dirty

production of iheart radio this is a podcast where we take a deep dive into america's shared consciousness and it is wednesday june 12 2024 it is okay after all oh that it is june 12th yeah i thought you were gonna announce one of the days dude it's 6 12 24 oh six double six double six double 12 24 you got 24 we're really into numerology these days fucking knew it dude i knew it uh but anyway it's also get that finger ready get to it i'm getting it ready i'm getting it ready for today uh but dude it's national peanut butter cookie day national jerky day look shout out interracial marriages because also national loving day the day we celebrate the supreme court decision of loving verse virginia when i first thought it was loving day i was like this i hope this has to do with that rather than just being like and it's a

hallmark greeting card day uh and also national red rose day but anyway shout out peanut butter it is like the first it is the supreme court decision that's day but anyway shout out peanut butter it is like the first it is the supreme court decision it's not just uh a hallmark no no it is it is it is hell yeah the anniversary of the 1967 supreme court decision that said hey man just if you like them just do it man just get with them you know these anti-miscegenation laws are fucked up yeah oh man uh well my name is jack o'brien aka i'm not saying i wash my piggies uh sorry i lied i washed piggies one two three four and five that one's courtesy of salvador jolly little step into a world by krs1 aka i do wish there was like more brag raps about just how good you are at washing your feet how thorough how thorough you are but yeah that's in reference to the conversation we had both

certified foot washers on this podcast i guess we're a little weird in that way gotta wash the feet man yeah you know what's dead skin accumulates on your fucking feet come on yeah wash the shit or put them in that little pool with the with the fishies that eat the dead skin off. Oh, that eat the dead skin. Yeah, I don't have that kind of money. I just keep one of those on deck. It's just one fish. And then when I'm done, I just throw them out.

No, that's fucked up. You're out. Most wasteful thing. I'm thrilled to be joined, as always always by my co-host mr miles gray once there was this miles gray couldn't quite explain it a stupid m&m's at 6.8 weeks 6.8 we sat out to yo-yo snap on the discord and my ongoing obsession with the food and wine article that said that was talking about fucking we gotta get we gotta get

our guests opinion on this one you know I do you know what studies the paranormal do you guys do an original intro like that for every episode every day yeah exactly we have how do you do that we have great listeners who are they submitting this crowd sorted source do that? We have great listeners. Are they submitting this? Yeah, we have a whole Discord. Crowd-sourced

riffs. It started us doing it on our own. I would run out in like a week. I know, man. We ran out 6.5 years ago. The listeners have been providing them ever

since. Thank God. Before we introduce them, let me just ask this. So this is a Food & Wine Magazine article that I believe might be written by AI or is the most hard to understand article. It's about M&M's pumpkin pie chocolate candies coming out earlier than the Halloween season. And they say it's because young people celebrate the holiday earlier. Again, I just need your help on this. Miles, I'm excited to talk to this guy. Yeah, I know, I know.

But some shit has to get addressed real quick. So just help me understand what is the point of this paragraph here, Jack. The pre-seasonal launch of the milk chocolate pumpkin pie M&Ms is a strategic move that taps into Mars market research. This research indicates that Gen Z and millennials plan to celebrate Halloween by dressing up and planning for the

holiday about 6.8 weeks beforehand. Well, 6.8 weeks from Memorial Day is the 4th of July, so you still have plenty of time to latch onto a pop culture trend and turn it into a creative costume. Look at his face. Exactly. That's not even a thought.

Yeah. It doesn't. That's AI or... How old is it? It's definitely AI. It just came out. Oh, it's AI. They're already using it. They're already using it. You've been caught. I'm sorry. I'm going to have to name you Melissa Kravitz-Hoffner.

I see you. This person's not even real. I guarantee they're not even real. No, they have an IG. I've been Instagram messaging them constantly being like, answer me, clarify this statement. Marissa Kravitz-Hoffner? Yeah. That's an insane paragraph.

You're like, they died 48 years ago. It's so convoluted. Because the AI shit will just kind of melt down in a way that makes i don't know it has like a very particular form where this feels like they're trying to put ideas together and they're just falling asleep maybe they might have hit the creative button when they had that article get generated or something right you know i mean so it just took liberties anyway anyway i'm glad I was validated by his response there.

Yes. All right. Well, we are thrilled to be joined in our third seat by that voice you're hearing, the director, journalist, host behind the really great podcast, my favorite new podcast

as of this morning when I just started binging it. Binged it. Can't stop listening to Otherworld. Please welcome Jack Wagner! Wow, thank you guys. Thanks for coming on. I don't have a song to sing along with my name,

but, you know, maybe the guests rarely do. Fix it in post. Okay, no, send us one. We'll just AI generate one for you. That usually works out for sure. Yeah, right. Well, thank you for having me. Yeah, thanks for coming on.

The show is great. The show is great. You've been doing it for how long? I think a year and a half. Yeah. Probably about that at this point. I started it Halloween 2022. So like the end of 2022.

And I thought it was going to be just a few episodes and i have not stopped yeah i'm chained to it wait how did you think it because i mean or maybe explain to people what the show is if they don't know but i'm curious how you thought it would only be a limited run so the story i mean it's a show i interview people who have experienced something paranormal and i was kind of doing this for fun before this on my old show. And that show was coming to an end. And I was sort of like, you know what? Maybe this would be like a mini series that I could like sell to a network like iHeartRadio or something.

Yeah. And I'm like, because I was going to go and like kind of not have a job again. So I was like, hey, maybe this would be like a, I can make a few of these. And I shopped it around and nobody was interested so I was kind of discouraged but I'm like you know I'll just like do it anyway and like I'll put out a few episodes for Halloween as like a little series maybe next Halloween somebody will pay me to do it but yeah it kind of took off and I just kept going and it worked so I just haven't stopped and been doing them pretty much every week,

which has been completely bonkers. Yeah. And it's gotten crazier ever since. Yeah, man. My life now. So the show is you interview people who have experienced something paranormal or inexplicable by the rules of everyday reality supernatural yes yeah and you just get the story like i've heard it called like paranormal this

american life but it's just hearing it in the voice of these people who are not generally the sorts of people that we associate with you know they're like you're not going to a uh paranormal conference to like find you know find these people they just sound like very normal people in many cases they're like i've never told anyone this because i realize how crazy it sounds yeah it's like not their life and it's also not my life, which I think is... Yeah, well, I think that's helpful. I mean, I used to say it's not my life. I mean, making the show is my life now,

but I don't have an agenda. I think that's what separates... And that's very clear. I think that's what separates Otherworld with other shows is like I personally don't have anything to prove as a host necessarily. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah you're not

going like exactly right you know yeah and i try to avoid having anyone on that has something to prove themselves right yeah yeah or at least i don't know it's like i'm just not as interested in that because i think i'm more suspicious of those types of stories and I think most people are as well. Yeah, it's like you do a good job of embodying like a very kind of sober, you know normal like day to day like

this is how I would approach this story and you tend to bring stories that are like wait this truly like feels like I'm hearing the truth from this person. Yeah. And yet it can't be. Can't be.

No, no. But yeah, it's a great show. Everybody should go check it out. We were planning on doing a normal episode, and then I ended up writing like 40 questions for you. So we'll probably end up talking about the world a little bit. Do whatever you need to do. Yeah. Before we get to it,

we do like to get to know you a little bit better by asking you, uh, what is something Jack Wagner from your search history that is revealing about who you are? Oh my God. This is the one I was not quite prepared for, but, um,

my search history in general is like insane because of this show. So like, I'm just constantly, I'm constantly, I mean, I could look at my search. It general is like insane because of this show so like i'm just constantly i'm constantly i mean i could look at my search it might be boring today but i'm constantly looking up stuff where i'm like oh i'm for sure gonna end up on some watch list you know yeah i feel like a lot of podcast hosts who have deep dive shows have some version like there's no way i'm not on a watch list based on the shit i look up just for my show but a funny one the other day that like um in the middle of the interview something came up where like we were talking about uh you know those pictures on like hallmark cards

where it'll be like a black and white photo of two little kids usually dressed as adults like wearing like 1940s suits and it'll be like a little boy holding a flower up to the girl or like kissing her on the cheek yeah like i don't know whatever those are called i was trying to figure out the name of the photographer and i was having a lot of trouble i think it's kim anderson by the way but like during the interview which was like video recorded too i kept doing this search and all of the searches i was doing were for sure going to end up getting me on one of the watch lists because I was typing in cute romantic

children photos. Black and white. Kids photo children on a date. This guy's a freak. Yeah, yeah. So there's definitely a page of shit like that. Kids doing adult stuff.

Wait a second. It sounds like a guy it sounds like like somebody on their first day of being a pedophile yeah they don't know what to search yeah exactly like how kids used to when you were a kid and you would search like naked women boob yeah right yeah whatever yeah i don't want to be greedy you know i don't want to come off like a weirdo just boob i like that the kid in that scenario is also like an old prospector like yes but yeah i i'm looking for that's a pretty good one that is a really good one yeah i didn't even realize that there was like a sort of like ann getty's kind of yeah i didn't either yeah it was

like an auteurist theory nice name drop on the the other photographer and get his babies great name drop it yep who's the one who did the weimaraners you know you know i'm talking about no what is that it's like it was oh william wegman if you look up there was like in the guy would dress up Weimaraners in like human clothing. And they were like, oh, the dogs. I was like, yeah, yes. Oh, my God. I did not know what word you're.

I know what you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. The dog breed. I wonder if all of them. I hate these photos. Yeah, I know. They're just like, I'm sorry.

Well, they're fucking just there. Yeah, they're angering. I hope you Google that. And that wasn't like a pull off the dome. I'd be so impressed. But what I knew, they're angry. I hope you Googled that and that wasn't like a pull off the dome. I would be so impressed. I just knew, I knew his name, but I always know it's the Weimaraner photographer guy. I'm impressed that you know the breed Weimaraner. You know what? My dad's also a photographer and he would always talk cash shit about these pictures.

He's like, what the fuck is, he's like, you're just dressing up dogs. Either way, I wonder if these three link up. Right. Ann Geddes, William Wegman, Avengers of like... Or they just fucking hate each other. I'm thinking it's they hate each other. That would be a great...

Ann Geddes is so pissed because he got the big Hallmark deal in 94. Right. Can you believe they're making fucking porcelain figurines out of his dogs? He got the big Hallmark deal in 94. Right. And like, like, can you believe they're making fucking porcelain figurines out of his dogs? Yeah. The Weimaraners seem to be taken somewhat seriously. Is that,

am I like more seriously than the kids, you know, on the Hallmark? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was like, it was like a thing, like serious people were like,

Oh, like I have the William Wegman book. Sure. Sure. Sure. Of a fucking dog wearing a robe. Okay. And they all like look down on Lisa Frank because she's like. I have.

Lisa's a goat. The Trapper Cooper artist. Lisa's a goat and an auteur. Yeah. William Wegman. See, this is like. I think this is emblematic of the 90s in a way that gets lost. Like, this is what shit was actually like in the late 90s and early 2000s.

Right. Is that when this was going down? Yeah, this is like, I mean, it was big. Definitely like he was working through like from the 70s on. But I feel like in the 80s and 90s. For more than 40 years, artist William Wegman has been making portraits and videos of his own beloved Weimaraner dogs, which have appeared in countless publications and featured on Sesame Street and Saturday Night Live. I think it was probably like late 90s, early aughts. But this type of shit, people know Y2K, but they don't know like this type of shit.

Yeah, exactly. Because this is what people are actually into. Right. Why does it make you mad is it because they appear to have human bodies their weimeriner heads on human bodies is it just the stupid simplicity of the vibes yeah yeah the vibes i don't know the vibes are atrocious they're just i mean like it's just like that was where the bar kind of was you know for it's like and then you know william's work sort of deals in what if weimaraners were the bourgeoisie you know what can what can we parse through like through the analysis of his work you know what sure you

know what like the next version of this is is like there was a period where on every like bad microbrewery there would be like a painting of like a gorilla in like a military uniform or a suit or something. Do you know what I'm talking about? Or like a bear wearing a suit. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

And he had a mustache. Right. It's the same shit. Yeah. Evil, evil, great art, evil,

just taking a different form. Yeah. You know, what's that quote? But what if the animals were doing like people stuff is the question. So what this work of art presupposes is what if animals, but people stuff like, yes,

yes. Like really great. Yeah. Work of, I was just about to step in your joke. I'm a little avant-garde. I like this painting where these dogs are playing poker. Well, that's a classic.

That is a classic. There's in fact a few, I think. This should be just a show of you telling, like differentiating between like pop art that is bullshit and pop art that is classic. Lisa Frank, classic. I hope there's other world listeners tuning in being like, maybe he'll reveal secrets.

And it's just, they're meeting the real me for the first time and it's a big disappointment. It's all about dogs playing poker. Yeah. Okay, I got to close that tab. What is something you think is underrated? This was hard. Probably a lot of things, but I think the show Friday Night Lights think is underrated? This was hard. Probably a lot of things,

but I think the show Friday Night Lights is very underrated. Have you ever seen this? I have. I've seen... Incredible. The first half of the first season. Oh, you got to keep going.

Yeah. You got to keep going. What about you, Miles? I remember watching... I remember in the early days of netflix when i was like i just need like a show to like fucking watch mindlessly and people like you've seen friday night lights and i'm like i remember dive back in it's one of the top 10 all-time shows in my opinion and i'm a freak it's really good i mean yeah i mean it's got like you

know like i remember like wait jesse plemmons like there's a lot of people yeah michael b jordan michael b jordan yeah yeah yeah jesse yeah and there's a great season that was like in the writers strike yeah that's the only one i really know about because i guess there's a famous it's not even that bad it's not even that bad but like there's something that happens while there's like the JV team writing it during the strike. Right. And then the varsity team comes back in the next season and they're like, yeah,

that never happened. We're just going to acknowledge it. It's like, I'm not going to say what it is. Okay. You're not going to say there's a crime that takes place. Yeah. That would,

that would have an emotional impact that would cause people to act different. Right. But then like everybody comes back to school the next season and they're like, hey everybody, how's it going? No reference. No reference to it. Everybody's fine. Nobody's in therapy. But yeah, it's an amazing show. That's the one where

I don't know, when I'm at dinner parties or whatever, I always end up recommending it to people and people are like, what? You like that show? It's good? I'm always like, power through. Power through. It's really good. I like the movie a lot.

It's different than the movie though, too. Just the same source material. Right. That's my underrated. What's your overrated? For this, I was going to say any food that involves you waiting in a line at all. I think almost no...

You guys are in LA? Yeah. You're obviously familiar with the types of places I'm talking about. There's a lot of hype places. Dave's Hot Chicken was one of those for a minute. There's Howlin' Rays. I don't get... I really don't get this, but any food

that requires you waiting in line. I do not do it. I think the only time you should wait in line for food is if you're in some kind of Great Depression scenario. You're on the dole line. It's like a humiliating experience right i a few minutes in the line is fine but like sure yeah like a normal line but not one

where it's like dude you gotta like get there at 9 a.m if you want to eat by noon you're like there's no it's never there's not food that's going to be that good to get like that you're by waiting in a line i'm really i'm against lines and waiting the hell and raise thing i remember people were like waiting in multiple hour lines yeah to get what i've realized is some people like it like that's what yeah that's what i've realized later it's like some people it's not like they're willing to wait to get the food the line is the whole thing for them. I think that provides comfort. I do, like,

I don't know. I feel like cattle when I'm in the line. It's way deeper for me. I'm like, I feel like cattle that's being like a sheep. I feel like I'm being shepherded right now. Like a dog corralled me into this.

I'm being corralled. Would there be, okay, would you do a version where you took a ticket but it's still a process of waiting but you're not in a queue?

If they like texted me and I could go freely. Yeah. But at that point it's like almost like a to-go order. Yeah. Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.

Yeah. Now you're just going to stand over here in this holding pen while you wait for your number to come up. I remember just kind of mill about. And scraps come out of this here in this holding pen while you wait for your number to come up. I remember. Just kind of mill about.

And scraps come out of this corrugated pen tube. If you open up your mouth, you can get a few bites. This is not the same thing, but have you ever been to a place that like has just a cartoonish wait time when you ask for like a table? Because I'm talking about places where you go to a counter and like order food. But there are some restaurants where I've gone in and I'll be like, hey, how long is a wait for two? And they'll be like, three hours. I've been told that.

And I'm like, okay, so you don't have... Just say no. Yeah, you just say no. Yeah, just say get out of here. That's just going to bring us to a different meal. That's not... Nobody's going to agree to that. Just say no.

Just say that there's not any tables. Because I'm obviously not going to a different meal. Like, that's not... Nobody's going to agree to that. Just say no. Just say that there's not any tables. Because I'm obviously not going to wait three hours. There have been times I've been like, all right, cool. They're like, you want to put your name down? I'm like, yeah. No, I've done that too. And then it worked.

And it's like 45 minutes. And you're like, ah, okay. So I think you really, you're just trying to put people off by saying like, well, bro, it's fucking long. I'm like, I don't care. They just, I'm just revealing that people don't like me. Like, I don't, they don't like my body.

No, but yeah, I think that's like, obviously they're trying to scare you off. But either way, like, I guess that makes the food is overrated. Like, there's no way it's going to be good enough. That's my point. When you were younger, did you get hot lunch at school? Barely. My mom was packing lunches and they weren't great. Packing your lunches.

Okay, got it. Were you asking because that's a line right there? That's a line that I just wondered if like how deep it went, you know. Right, right, right. Were your lines long for hot lunch? Like were you? I think sometimes it was. Yeah, sometimes.

At most, I mean, it moved, you know. Yeah, it moved. But I was also a sack lunch kid. But you're in an institution. Like, you have no choice there. Yeah. It's just one line to another. Yeah.

You're lining up all the time in school. Yeah. That's fine. You go to Disneyland and you're like, I don't know about any rides. Oh, that's another. I mean, that's a whole other thing. Let's go. I'll probably.

I mean, has anybody said Disneyland on the show? Like, that's a whole other thing. Let's go. I'll probably, I mean, has anybody said Disneyland on the show? Like, that's overrated. Yeah, I mean. I mean, but that's like crazy overrated. Like, obviously, people spend their whole life doing that. It's insane. Yeah.

Going to the same park. I can't even. I finally went. I went as a kid. I went one time in my 20s with my friends, but we barely did anything. And then I recently went again where I'm went, I went as a kid. I went one time as when I, in my twenties with my friends, but we barely did anything. And then I recently went again where I'm like, you know what? I'm going to go like, give it a shot. Everybody loves it.

I had a fine time. I had a good time, but like I was ready to leave. And the thought of going back again the next day would be crazy to me. You know, sorry if either of you guys are Disney files, but I was like, no, we're not. I did it. I did all the stuff. I'm a 35-year-old man. What am I going to do? Go on It's a Small World again?

That's crazy. You really can't get the nuances of It's a Small World and the song in particular the first time around. You really need to let that bloom. People go for like seven days at a time to the different parks.

The thing that put me off is that there's a ride that is just agreed to be very good by Disney Files, the Peter Pan ride. And I waited. It was a line-based revelation. I waited in an hour long line to go on it with my small child

and then got on and it was like less than two minutes and you're just like going around like looking looking at fucking models of london toys london doesn't even look like oh i remember that ride that's pretty good oh no i mean no like, no. Pretty good for a kid. For a kid. Right. For a baby. Pretty good with 15 minutes. Wait.

They're like, this is a must. You got to go on it. You can't leave Disney without. I'm not a total. I'm not an unfair hater. I will say, like, the Star Wars ride, the new Star Wars ride is really good. That's kind of worth the wait. I waited.

And I was like, yeah, I'm very impressed. This is great. I heard the Avatar ride in Disney World is like causing dads to change their lives. I went on it a couple times. Is it amazing? I think that's the closest thing that some of these guys are getting to a psychedelic experience.

Right. Yeah, these buttons. Right? It's not that great.'s just it's um it's like a dark ride where you're on like a basically a bike that moves you around and then it has like a giant screen in front of you and then 3d glasses on and so it feel it makes you feel like you're flying but got it yeah it's cool again, it was just like, yeah. All these guys wanted to commit suicide after Avatar came out.

Do you remember that? Yeah. They were like, don't make me go back. By the way, it's an appropriate response. James Cameron, don't make me go back. They were like, yeah, it was causing all these suburban dads to have like existential crisis crises yeah power pan but yeah oh we got some we got a producer in the chat saying you got to bring in goodies for disneyland to actually have fun oh i've had i've been there on goodies

that was not a game it made it worse it made it so worse. And I've been there on some baddies too. Yeah. You know what I mean? That made it hellish. I had some psychedelic experiences there and it was not good. I was freaking out. I saw, I saw, I was on mushrooms and I encountered one of the parking lots that they have for like all the baby strollers. So there'll be like hundreds of parked parked bailey's babies yeah yeah like and we're already in this like weird concrete human landscape and i was like yeah oh my god like it just hit me i'm like there are so much of us like we're a virus taking over this world and i had it also looks like a thing from

the like holocaust music just all these empty strollers like with yeah from the rapture like yeah so that hit me hard and then they have that thing where it's like a tree it used to be the Swiss Family Robinson tree and now it's this Tarzan tree

and it's like a fake tree it's a huge fake tree that like kids play on and stuff and I had a meltdown about that because I was like Oh, yeah. scenario alongside Aladdin and shit. Yeah. Like you don't have to make this shit up. I was like, they cut down trees to build this tree. That's fake. And like all of these people could have taken their kids on a vacation to Yosemite,

like two hours away where they could climb a real tree. Well, I like, I mean, of course it's like i'm on mushrooms thinking this yeah yeah yeah yeah and you're just blocking like one of the stairs yeah exactly they're like go back man go back you don't want this just security's cuffing me yeah the closest i can i've come to like accessing like what a bad trip would be without taking like any psychedelics was

like going on it's a small world and being like god this would be a fucking true nightmare if i was yeah anything because it is just like going from one weird little room inside a building to another like i i don't know like i'm i become like very aware of like how big the room is and like where the back wall is and yeah there's like carpet over there like i just become... Oh, you're breaking down the environment as you're running. Yeah. If I'm in the wrong frame of mind,

which I was. The trip was not bad. Disney was bad. Right. It inspired too many thoughts. I was wise. I was receiving wisdom. Yes.

The trip was not bad. What I was witnessing was bad. I was receiving wisdom. Yes. The trip was bad. Like what I was witnessing was bad. Yeah. Everybody around you was fucked, but yeah, I mean like, I think that is like, there's a lot of truth to all of those thoughts where it's like,

it's a weird, I mean, Disney itself is like a, a replication of generally real things in the world. Like, like Bryce Canyon. I didn't realize... I went to Bryce Canyon a few years ago. I don't know if you guys know where that is.

It's a national park in Utah. But I think one of the rides, whatever the train roller coaster is, I think it's in California Adventure. The landscape of that ride is based on Bryce Canyon. And I didn't realize that until I went to this place. And it looks like alien landscape. I highly recommend anybody.

Oh, is that Big Thunder Mountain? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It absolutely blew my mind to see this place. I highly recommend visiting Bryce Canyon. Oh, yeah. Now that I'm looking at it, I'm like, that's Disneyland. I'm like, you're looking at a photo of Bryce Canyon.

No, exactly. So with Disney, you know, all of the stuff in there is inspired by a real place, including the castle. That's like a real castle that you go to in Germany, I think, unless it's Austria. But yeah, when I see people that just go there over and over again, it's like, yo, you can go to

the real version of this stuff. Like, it's out there. Yeah, but they don't have a dull whip. Like, castles are real. Like, it's not made up. Like, there are castles. How do you get clam chowder in a bread bowl? Yeah.

You could get that there, too, I'm sure. Oh, all right. Well, yeah. Germany, bro, you could get a bread bowl in Germany. I don't know about the clam chowder. You could get some kind of bratwurst. Yeah, fine. Schnitzel.

Yeah, I'll take that. Anyway, we lost all your Disney listeners. I'm sorry. That's all right. Is iHeart in any way connected to Disney? Am I going to get like... iHeart wishes. Okay.

No, yeah, we wish. I'm not going to get like assassinated. No. Nah, nah, nah. This is like somebody screwing a silencer onto their handgun. Don't talk about Raytheon, man. there's like a somebody is screwing a silencer onto their handgun man north of disney might be like you might be a disney plant like that's what one of the things i learned from your podcast is like the the government are the ones who are like putting out some of the ufo shit like they're

like trying to make i don't know there's like that complex mind fuck that's happening yeah in the in the world of UFOs. Let's take a quick break. We'll come back and we'll get into your show. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series, Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and LA-based Shekinah Church, an alleged cult that has impacted

members for over two decades. Jessica and I will delve into the hidden truths between high control groups and interview dancers, church members, and others whose lives and careers have been impacted, just like mine. Through powerful, in-depth interviews with former members and new chilling firsthand accounts, the series will illuminate untold and extremely necessary perspectives. Forgive Me For I Have Followed will be more than an exploration. It's a vital revelation aimed at ensuring these types of abuses never happen again. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk

Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Sanner. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about

that quote. What is it like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career. Without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports, where we live at the intersection of sports and culture. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry, Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball

just because of one single game. Every great player needs a foil. I ain't really near them. Why is that? I just come here to play basketball every single day, and that's what I focus on. From college to the pros, Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Angel Reese is a joy to watch. She is unapologetically black. I love her.

What exactly ignited this fire? Why has it been so good for the game? And can the fanfare surrounding these two supernovas be sustained? This game is only going to get better because the talent is getting better. This new season will cover all things sports and culture listen to naked sports on the black effect podcast network iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast the black effect podcast network is sponsored by diet coke and we're back back and i mean miles you had you had the question on all our minds off top ghost real dog like and if they are how come i don't see them

so what's wrong with me i have a theory on that what is that so there's this book this neuroscientist david eagleman who has this book incognito about like the way the mind works and what there's like one of the things he says there's like more wiring going from our brain to our eyes than from our eyes like the the signals travel more from our brain to our eyes than from our eyes to our brain. And the point he was making is that a lot of what we see is made up by our mind's memory of what we know is there. And so it's like filling in your visuals

with things from your memory. But that idea that some of what you see is actually filled in by your brain also seems like it makes a lot of sense to me of like things of people seeing like i mean you know our brain is this amazing machine that like creates amazing cinematic experiences for us when we sleep at night like so yeah i'm i it does i don't doubt that it could like do something similar to us during our waking lives but i also think that there's what like a counter like the other side of that coin is if our so much of what is happening around us is just being filled in by what our brain expects to be there then it's like papering over so much shit.

And like one of the things you say on your show is that a lot of these experiences tend to happen to people who are like out of their comfort zone. So I think the anecdote that Eagleman was talking about when he was talking about this is like why people die in car accidents so close to their home is because that's a place where you're way more likely to just fill in your surroundings because you've been there a thousand times. So your brain is just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we know the streets out there. And it doesn't see the truck speeding down the street or whatever. But it's sort of the doors of perception thing.

You're narrowing what you're letting in down to a very small trickle and filling everything else in with your expectations. And so that idea really jumped out to me that you would be encountering things more when you're outside of your comfort zone because that's when your brain is actually more alive to what's happening around you, right? So you are actually taking in things that your brain would normally be papering over with like whatever your expectations of the normal world is. And so I think, you know, just that idea of that our brain and our, you know, what we perceive around us is in this like constant kind of communication and interchange like kind of helps me make sense of it and also makes me make sense of maybe we're missing a lot of the crazy shit that's happening around us okay you said a lot of stuff i know how's it i got excited man i just listened i just started with that man let me see. Okay, so first of all, maybe I did say that in an episode.

I don't remember saying the comfort zone thing. I do notice a pattern of people experiencing things when there's like, they're going through something intense already related to their life. Right.

But with, I think the example with like the vision is good, but I look at it kind of like the opposite way, you know? your brain is from my understanding i'm not a neuroscientist but like it is filling in the gaps a lot but also like like what you're seeing is you're entirely a creation of your brain you know like our eyes do not see in 3d. Your brain is doing that. Your brain is what makes it three-dimensional. We do not see three-dimensional objects. It's like our brain is rendering that essentially using the data from our eyes. And same with your ears. Your ears help with depth perception of hearing. All of this is just input to your brain that's in processing it.

You could look at it, I think the skeptical way to look at it would be like, oh yeah, your brain is just making up the ghosts or whatever, or making up whatever and maybe it's just glitching out. The other way you could look at it is that you really,

our eyes and ears are only able to pick up a tiny amount of what's out there yeah you're not like what we're seeing is not actually what's there like there's so much more happening right now we're seeing visible light which is a tiny tiny part of the spectrum and same with the sound and aside from that there's other things out there there's like like there's more perhaps stuff we haven't even like discovered so like the freakier way you could look at it is that maybe momentarily our brain is like picking up something else and it's not something that our brains ever tried to process before yeah so our brain's doing its best to process that you It's kind of like, imagine...

I think of it as if you got a Wi-Fi card and a really old computer. Sure. You could theoretically hook it up to the internet, but try to do anything on that old machine, it's going to not work. It's not going to be able to

run the internet, essentially, on a really, really old computer that's so much data. It's not built to be able to run the internet essentially on a really really old computer that's so much data it's not built to do that you know you could do it you could turn on wi-fi but like it would not be able to go to a website we are like so incapable of perceiving things that are above our you know capacity for you know perception like just by definition so like yeah that's something you come in, you run into all the time if you're dealing with, like, a child or someone like that, you know, it's obviously very evident to you. So, somebody who has, like, a little bit more

understanding. It gets really, really deep and really meta. Like, you could really go crazy with it, especially just given the fact that we like still don't really know what consciousness is yeah or like why it exists or how it exists and like whether it's contained to an individual's body or if it could go elsewhere or if it comes from something else yeah that's you know that's like it's just sort of that unknown that makes so much of this like feasible impossible like well i'm traditionally pretty skeptical about it like i definitely have people around me who are like the like you know see who have like experienced paranormal things and are just i think maybe just tap like tuned into something a little bit different but that's where like that episode you did about the gateway process

sort of made sense to me about that perhaps there are people that are able to perceive things just differently like just just to put it like not too you know uh sensational but like there's a different way that some people are perceiving things than maybe the rest of us do and but then like but when i hear that like the pentagon and the cia is like looking into this kind of thing and like immediately my brain's like well then it must be legit like yeah if they need it to like exactly if they need it to be violent with other people on the earth they must think there's something feasible about it where I'm like this this is kind of interesting but like I'm when you when

you see when you read these like declassified documents that are talking about like weaponizing astral projection how much of that do you think is like pentagon hopium where they're like damn it would be dope if this shit like was the shit and like we could really get the soviets now using this kind of technology whatever okay we could go like so deep on this and like i'm not even fully qualified to go to the depth of it but like there's many ways you could look at it like some people think it's like disinfo some people think it was just like you know they're trying everything to get

to the Soviets but like we have a series coming up with a collaborator Josh Cittarella was doing all the research on the gateway process and the Monroe Institute and his angle and like what I think it's probably more like is that there was all these guys in intelligence at the time

that were into this stuff and were getting the government to fund their own research on these really freaky topics under the guise of national security. Like they were like trying to research insane fucking stuff. Oh, just being like, dude dude my stepdad will pay for this if we just kind of frame it the right way or like guys at the highest level yeah but like in a more serious way like i think um you know these intelligence guys were legitimately interested in

this stuff and believed it and were trying to advance it interesting and they're into some really freaky stuff too right because one of the guys from the army ended up running the monroe institute like it's sort of like revolving door and that's what i'm like oh this is very interesting that like so when you see these things it's interesting too because like i said i have like i think a lot of us in our like cultural consciousness it's like declassified thing and the government yeah doing it they're like so there must be a little weight to it but that's where always a sort of skeptic in me is like well they're this also has to happen if someone really wants this to be true also because even in that episode you did like well a lot of like the sort of larger topics about frequency and vibration like are scientifically sound to like marry all those concepts to then

be like someone can be doing like remote viewing or something like that yeah it's hard and you know what changed for me because i was more normal before like most people most normal people are like really binary it's like okay this is all fake or it's all real 100 it's like there's not much room for an in-between something that hit me that changed things for me is like like this could be real but we could be bad terrible at it like psychic powers could be real but there could just be nobody out there that's very good or like the stuff you are capable of doing is not super helpful like maybe somebody can't find the location of a russian sub but they could figure out some words that are going to be said a week from now or predict some random sort of pointless thing

that's going to happen in a really messy, clouded way. I don't know. That's not a good example, but I think of it as if you went back in time to the 1500s and had a basketball hoop, like an NBA basketball hoop they don't know what basketball is back then like when you show them the ball and be like and just like some random guy you're like all right like dunk the ball they would all be like that's impossible

like this can't be done like everybody would try you would not be able to do it and in all likelihood they would think it's actually impossible it would be like and of course now you know many years later right or like a sub two hour marathon like a youtube clip of like a really like you know a modern and one basketball player to somebody from the 1940s they would be like well that person's the fucking wizard like that yeah that that doesn't make sense at all so like with this stuff i think of it as like uh i don't even know if we could learn to be that good by just person's the fucking wizard like that yeah that that doesn't make sense at all so like with this stuff i think of it as like uh i don't even know if we could learn to be that good by just like sure just or whatever but maybe we haven't evolved far enough right we don't even know what we're aiming at yeah so maybe it's not like hundreds of years maybe it's thousands of years or maybe

there's like something that's going to come along that could unlock this stuff but right i i think that's like what's made me give me a good middle ground perspective is like you know because people are always like oh if they're psychic like why didn't they know this was gonna happen why don't they go to the casino and win it's like right yeah it's not like that's not how it works i think yeah it's like uh it's sort of like i don't know in my experience of talking to people who supposedly do have this ability it's like as if they like walked into your house blindfolded at night and they just like grabbed something and we're like oh yeah do you have like a a mouse pad with a star wars character on it yeah or some shit where it's like kind of like

why are you talking yeah i guess but like why are you talking about that like it's not useful like you couldn't gamble on it it's like so random i don't know yeah yeah i'm giving weird examples but it's not like the sort of omniscience that people like to think of it as yeah or i've had people that like a lot of times people that i've talked to who have had like, um, premonitions, some of it's like very specific, but like random and sort of like, oh, why would you have a premonition of that? Like, that's really weird. Like, um, it just doesn't have like meaning, you know? Right.

Yeah. It's interesting though. It is super interesting. The one, the one, the episode, I'm'm not gonna dig into it now because this episode could be three hours long but the one about the quantum like the guy who has a near-death or like basically experiences what would be the last moments of his life and then wakes up in a parallel timeline that's crazy yeah i love those stories i want more of those. So bad. Yeah. Because that isn't a theory of quantum reality that I've actually kind of believed in throughout. It seems very plausible.

And Schrodinger's cat and the quantum machine gun thought experiment and all that stuff. I don't know. But I hadn't heard it from a first-person perspective. So that one really is worth checking out. Yeah, I love ones like that. That was called Everything Goes Black. Yeah, people should go check out Everything Goes Black.

That one's really cool. There's a few like that. That one's particularly weird. Nice. Let's take a quick break and we'll come back i'm jess casaveto executive producer of the hit netflix documentary series dancing for the devil the 7m tiktok cult and i'm cleo gray former member of 7m films and shekinah church and we're the host of the new podcast forgive me Me For I Have Followed.

Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and LA-based Shekinah Church, an alleged cult that has impacted members for over two decades. Jessica and I will delve into the hidden truths between high-control groups and interviewed dancers, church members, and others whose lives and careers

have been impacted, just like mine. Through powerful, in-depth interviews with whose lives and careers have been impacted, just like mine. Through powerful, in-depth interviews with former members and new, chilling firsthand accounts, the series will illuminate untold and extremely necessary perspectives. Forgive Me For I Have Followed will be more than an exploration. It's a vital revelation aimed at ensuring these types of abuses never happen again. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, you have a lot of questions. Like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or, can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes!

Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do. Like resume specialist Morgan Saner. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career

without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports, where we live at the intersection of sports and culture. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry, Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Every great player needs a foil. I ain't really near them. Why is that? Just come here and play basketball every single day, and that's what I focus on. From college to the pros, Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports.

Angel Reese is a joy to watch. She is unapologetically black. I love her. What exactly ignited this fire? Why has it been so good for the game? And can the fanfare surrounding these two supernovas be sustained? This game is only going to get better because the talent is getting better. This new season will cover all things sports and culture.

Listen to Naked Sports on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by Diet Coke. And we're back. We're back. And it's a big topic that probably the topic that kind of overlaps between our show your show the most would be ufos like the you know we started the show in 2017 which was right as like the tic-tacs started being acknowledged by the new york times and

there started to be a more mainstream journalistic kind of appetite for like publishing on that stuff so we've been following it on and off I have frequently said on the show that like when I I start talking about UFOs I sometimes wonder like why we would ever talk about anything else because it's just like such a massive question and there seems to be so many things to cover so many different leads to chase down and so that's why we don't talk about it partially is because otherwise it would be insufferable and never-ending there's so many false alarms and yeah it weirdly like people people like being normal you know that's i think that's like i've realized about other world is like you know when this stuff happens to people it doesn't become their life the first thing they want to do is move on and right go be normal and like yeah i don't know and even after

like making this my full-time job like this isn't the number one thing i care about and like you know yeah it's not like and i'm not like obsessed with ghosts or demons like yeah yeah yeah i don't even really care i mean it's not like my whole thing like what that's not my whole life right right it's so that's why i don't have anything to prove it's because like yeah that's just not what i'm about i just want to chill i want to hear like hang out with my friends and you know yeah you don't want to live in a world where you're like dude i don't know dude i want to get knocked into a parallel reality like yeah i think i'm like just normal you know but i think

most people are like that so well yeah i mean it's good to break it up yeah it's so disruptive to when those kinds of things happen to be like and now i have to acknowledge that there's this whole other dimension of existence that i was not aware of and could deeply impact me it's better to be like i don't know that guy's fucking weird let me just have a beer and watch if aliens ever actually came down and landed it would like be a news story for two days and then kind of fake in the background so i mean you're articulating one of your ufo episodes something that i noticed happening to me when the whistleblower testimonies started, I found myself getting less interested.

Like that should have been. Also, cause he had like, he had my girlfriend goes to a different school. You wouldn't know her energy to him. That's probably it. At least partially. Yeah.

That's the, see, this is why I don't dabble in the UFO community too, because I mean, it's very people, you know, everybody has different views and i think there's like heated arguments that happen but yeah with that like i don't know it's it's

interesting like those guys the the ufo world at large is skeptical of like everything they think everything's a psyop but then when that guy came around they're like oh he's legit like because he said he is you know right and it's like oh and congress is talking to him congress that's serious like these are some have you seen some of the people in congress like have you seen who gets elected to congress like this doesn't mean anything you know and it's like if they were to do a psyop that's like the first that's like the number one way they would do it.

Is like have a guy like that come around. I don't know. I guess I was just not super invested because it's like, he didn't blow the whistle. He was doing the thing with like a DJ where it's like, big announcement,

big announcement today. I'm going to have a big announcement next Wednesday. So like tune in for the real announcement. Like, it was a lot of that. My big announcement today is that there's a big announcement coming on Wednesday. Yeah. It was a lot of that. My big announcement today is that there's a big announcement coming on Wednesday.

Yeah, it was a lot of that. I was like, blow the whistle, bro. He kept saying it's classified. It's like, yeah, all of this is, dude. All of it's classified. Yeah. You're already breaking the rules. Just break them all the way. I think it went from there are these

various, you know, there are these like various, you know, there are the Tic Tacs and other like, you know, unidentified aerial phenomenon. And here are all the reasons like that's mysterious and you can't quite explain it to like, this guy is saying basically the plot of Independence Day is real.

Like, and that's just inevitably going to make me less interested. Like he's picking one option and saying that's the one. And, but that is going to inevitably be true of any confirmation of UFO theories. Like, yeah, it's hard.

I think as soon as the government gets involved, like it's, that really complicates things inherently. Yeah. And the department of defense, because it's like, like these people lie. That's their job. Like, yeah. really complicates things inherently yeah and the department of defense because it's like oh like these people lie that's their job like yeah like if the but if the military is telling me something

that's like how you know not to believe it right like even if the thing's true they're telling you a fake version of it like yeah yeah never ever told the truth ever but at the same time that's like the main thing the military does is lie i felt a little called out when the you're you're guessed on what i am a patreon uh okay but now but uh you're a new yorker in her interview with chris wiley or your interview with the new yorker writer chris wiley he kind of he compared it to he was saying that like it is by definition like a incredibly information rich like environment similar to q anon i'm wondering if like that's what happened to me is like because

as we've like covered q anon on this show yeah it's like the thing that people want is not the truth they want another dozen theories that like are connect in vague ways to the last theory and i'm trying to figure out of like that when a whistleblower came and said no this one is the thing like if i was just like fuck you it's like too specific it's just yeah there's like a lot of stuff that there's so much out there and i don't't mean to discredit David Grush or anything. I was just like... I'm talking more about the media spectacle of it all. I don't...

It's hard. I'm just glad I cover first-person experiences because I can handle that. It's hard to be following the day-to-day of the UFO world, especially when there's so much fake stuff out there. Yeah, right. But it's complicated. And shit that people are insisting is real

when you're like, this is not real. To be honest with you, though, like gut check wise, like a lot of people with the UFOs, they're like, I think it's just testing top secret military stuff. I don't think we have anything that advanced that would be confused with what people see with the ufo in terms of like

real tech if we did the only way i think if we did is if it came from somewhere else like maybe that which is then the same thing as having a ufo but like as things get increasingly privatized with spacex and virgin galactic and stuff like you see how difficult it is to accomplish these things. Right. I mean, and even our defense department, they mostly use contractors. I don't know.

I just don't really think they have the stuff that would be enough to explain it away as something that's purely man-made, unless it came from somewhere else. It would be such a massive leap. It would be such a massive leap. Yeah, science, right. Yeah, because you always have mechanicalss they're like it defies all

like mechanical science like if any of this exists and and i think that's when everyone goes whoa dude did you hear that defies all mechanical science and then yeah that's like that's where the emotional investment would come in for me but i feel like yeah in the same way when that that dude went up there and was like yeah man like they have contractors that go like excavate the crash technology and then they send it back that's and i'm like this is like a fuck this is truly a movie now like that yeah and again it's like one of those it's almost like flat earth thing we're like how many people are fucking involved and no one like you're the first dude to fucking talk about it. That's where it gets a little bit wobbly. I do think like I'm on board, like I'm on board with like,

maybe there are things that have crashed that we have and are trying to figure out. Like, I don't know if we've figured it out yet though. I like that theory. Yeah. I like the theory of there being like a bunker where there's like a bunch of like weird stone orbs that were just

looking at, like, what is this? How do you work this? Every once in a while, a military pilot will go out and essentially drunk drive it around because they can't figure out they're just not up to it at all. Did you fly the three orbs, man? Yeah, I took them out for a spin.

I took them out. It was not good. I fucked up bad I think I killed like 40 cows due to an accident exactly or like there's a whole not to go too deep but like there's a whole other thing where it's like people who think that it's all telepathic like the UFOs

all of it it's just not physically there it's being projected yeah like it's being sent to us and we're seeing it that way I know and there's some people that think it's being projected yeah like it's being sent to us and we're seeing it that way holy I know and there's some people that think it's us it's us what do you mean like it's like us in the

future like trying to stop us from because it's like it gets seen they get seen around nuclear bases a lot yeah there's like a thought of like humans in the future with tech advanced enough to like send abandon this something even if i don't know like yeah like watching ourselves to make sure we don't blow ourselves up yeah that yeah there's always an infinite loop right right yeah

i that one i feel like is pretty popular in that world where that's like it's either there's someone being like dude stay away from that technology man it's bad we just want to make sure you guys don't fuck your little marble up that you got here yeah that's my theory we're getting stony right now i like it oh yeah always the my theory is that like that whatever the thing is it's you know it got it has advanced enough technology to get here if if that's what it is if it's an actual like you know the the technology is way more advanced and yet they haven't used it like the modern paradigm would be well if you have technology that advanced you just like kill or enslave the entire population right like that That's just how realist politics assumes

that all things work now and will work forever. And we've been seeing these things for decades now and they haven't done that. So they're just like probably inherently distrustful of the military

for good reason. Or just watching us or curious because also like to get take it in one step stonier is like a lot of like the religious miracles written about and like ancient texts can be interpreted as sightings you know a lot of stuff yeah yeah because there's i mean there's like the same thing like a lot of skeptics will be like, well, you know, people really only started reporting UFOs after like sci-fi came out and like sci-fi books started talking about UFOs. It's like, well, yeah, sure. But also before that, if they saw something big and bright

and unexplainable in the sky, they wouldn't have had that language. They would have probably called it a religious miracle. They would have thought it was an angel or something religious miracle. They would have thought it was like an angel or something like that. They would have called it something else. And lo, the heavens opened up and angels poured forth upon. Yeah. Or,

you know, whatever it was that they thought it would be, you know. Yeah. Yeah. These names for things change. Yeah. I still like to think that we're just their big,

messy reality show. They like to check in on. Maybe. Yeah. Or we're just like ants they're fucking up all the time a zoo yeah or it could be multi-dimensional beings yeah it's it's funny hearing myself talk about it like this is not what i used to be like but like yeah yeah you know what i'm saying yeah no but i mean that's what i think is interesting about the show because

it you you when you hear all these firsthand accounts you just have like the the mirror like the the repetition of things like the fact that it is prevalent it does just make you pause to try and understand like what what is it about it that that we're seeing these kinds of things all the time no experience those kinds of things and i think that's what is really dope about the show because like you know i was like listening to one with like an archaeologist who goes like burial sites and like they're around spooky shit all the time like dude i'm not in the spooky fuck business but like some spooky shit was happening yeah you know i think that's where when you start to see it from all these different angles then and you kind of begin to be like yeah this it's there's something here i can't quite put

my finger on it and i'm not like being like yeah man because all of this is real but there's there's like another layer of truth that i feel like that we're chasing or trying to understand i think that powers so much of how we see these things yes absolutely is there one episode that made you go from normal to or one episode that like you just can't shake that you're just like well seamless plug is that like that that episode is starting to come out like it the one this week is starting like a long series that i've been kind of working on since meet us yes yeah that one's multiple goosebumps yeah this one came really early into the show when I thought it wasn't even going to be really a show. Yeah.

And it like was just several steps beyond what I was used to hearing. And just so bonkers and like just continued to get more bonkers as it went. And that really like pushed me over the edge. And I've been working on it for a year and a half, like as long as the show has existed. I mean, I've taken breaks of working on it for a year and a half as long as the show has existed. I mean, I've taken breaks of working on it for various reasons. Sometimes because it's too much, but it was

one where when I heard it, I was having this interesting reaction where I was just thinking, yeah, this can't be real because it just can't. It's just too much. It's too much. I couldn't... Most people leave it at that, but I can't do Like, it's just too much. It's too much. Like, I couldn't. And most people leave it at that. But, like, I can't do that.

That's not, like, I wouldn't be doing my job. Like, I can't just dismiss things. Like, I have to have a reason why it's not real. Like, okay, it's not real because of this. I still have, like, not been able to find one. And I know for a fact, like, the people in the story feel the same way. And it's just been a wild ride. I'm excited for these to come

out because they kind of go all over the place. So that's one that sort of pushed me over the edge a little bit. Well, can't wait to hear where that one goes and thank you so much Jack Wagner for coming on the Daily Zeitgeist, man.

Thank you for having me, guys. I think this is the record, tied for the record for the least news we've ever covered on the show. Chris Croston used to be the holder. It's okay, though.

It's for the best. We talked about it on yesterday's training episode. We're covering the real news today. That's right. Strap in. Exactly. We're doing the real news.

They don't want you to do it. Open your eyes, sheeple. This is the real news. Yes. Where can people find can people find you follow you hear you all that good stuff um it's the socials are at otherworldpod and you could listen to it wherever you get your podcasts it's like uh look up otherworld it's the the logo is like a man jumping through a void i guess you could say there's a jumping guy a doorframe right he's just going through it's kind of like a man jumping through a void, I guess you could say. There's a jumping guy. A doorframe, right? He's just going through a doorframe. It's kind of like a sheet. It's like a glass.

Yeah. That's how I think of it. And being transformed. Yeah. Amazing. Is there a work of media that you've been enjoying? You know Dax Flame is? Uh-uh. He was big on YouTube when he was like a teenager, but he was in the movie 21 Jump Street.

His Instagram lately and TikTok have been extremely funny. Look up Dax Flame. Dax Flame. Yeah. It's hard to explain. Just start scrolling his videos and watch. Just drink it in. It's insane media.

It's very good. Really look up Dax Flame after this. All right. Will do. Drink it in. And it's an insane, insane media. It's very good. Look at, really look up Dax Flame after this. All right. Will do. Miles, where can people find you? What's the work of media you've been enjoying?

Oh man. I thought Dax Shepard was the only Dax out there. There's two Daxes. At least. There can only be one. You can find me at miles of gray, Twitter, Instagram,

everywhere else. You can find Jack and I on our basketball podcast. Miles and Jack on Mad Boosties as we scratch our heads looking at the finals, wondering can the Mavericks do something? You can also find me talking about 90 Day Fiance on 420

Day Fiance. A tweet I like. It's from NBA Twitter. It's from a past Mad Boosties guest, Jasmine L. Watkins, at Jasmine L. Watkins. Quote tweeted a tweet from Shams about Chris Tapps-Persingas, his sort of fitness update. It said, quote, Celtics' Chris Tapps-Persingas suffered a torn medial retinaculum, allowing dislocation of the posterior tibialis tendon. And Jasmine said, boy, I was looking like Floyd Mayweather trying to

read this. It's a lot of medical terms. It's very difficult. I can't even believe I got through it. So shout out to Jasmine for a hilarious tweet. Amazing. You can find me on Twitter at Jack underscore O'Brien. I watched the Richard Linklater movie Hitman. Oh, yeah.

Me too. Yeah. I thought that was fun. Yeah. I thought that was cool. I liked that they were like, Hitman don't exist. Yeah. Just like stuck a little fact for you in there.

Yeah. I think they exist in the mafia or existed in the mafia for a little bit and with the military, but not the version that we're all familiar with. Yeah. I mean, the mafia for a little bit and with the military but not not the version that we're all familiar with yeah meeting the guy in a diner like i need you to off this guy problem for me if you know what i'm saying that doesn't exist it turns out so if you're in a relationship with a hitman in a diner that that's a cop. Get out of there. You can find me on Twitter at Jack underscore O'Brien. You can find us on

Twitter at Daily Zeitgeist. We're at The Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram. We have a Facebook fan page and a website, DailyZeitgeist.com, where we post our episodes and our footnotes. We'll link off to the information that we talked about in today's episode, as well as a song that we think you might enjoy. Miles, what song do you think people might enjoy?

I think we're going to go out on a little bit of like a new sort of dancey update to Idina Howard's I Need a Freak. It's called Freak, and it's by Live East. And, you know, for all my 90s people out there, you remember that track. But this is kind of like a more softer sort of dancey version. You still get in those lyrics of I need a freak in the morning freak in the evening so check this one out freak by live east all right we will link off to that in the footnotes today guys the production of iheart radio for more podcasts from iheart radio visit the iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you listen your favorite shows that's gonna do it for us

this morning back this afternoon to tell you what's trending. And we'll talk to you all then. Bye. Bye. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadson. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer

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Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry, Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese

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