The Daily Zeitgeist - Here We Go ATrend… 11/6: Donald Trump, Kamala Harris, Election 2024

Episode Date: November 6, 2024

In this edition of Here We Go ATrend…, Jack and Miles discuss the results of last night's presidential election. Everything That's Wrong with Liberal Centrism in Under 3 mins w/ David Graeber See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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We are going to be reliving every hookup, every scandal, and every single wig removal together. So listen to Still the Place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Feel the place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and expanding your horizons? Hit play on the sex-positive and deeply entertaining podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson-Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart Podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.

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to this episode of Podcast where we cover the race for people sexiest man and What what's gonna what's coming from the Grammy noms? and what's coming from the Grammy noms. Now this is the first episode we're recording after the election results. My name is Jack O'Brien, that over there is Miles Gray. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

A bad result for the Democrats last night in the election. A bad result I would, for the future of America, because we are going to get a new version of fascism that reaches new depths that I don't think we've seen or like, oh, we've never fully imagined yet. But so I think there's a lot of pain and anguish. Certainly I'm feeling a lot of that. I the.

The polling that I was using as copium heading into the election did not take the Seltzer poll that I think a lot of. uh, using as copium heading into the election did not take the, the Seltzer poll that I think a lot of. I sniffed too much of that Seltzer. I said, um, yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean, I think for anyone listening, it's, it's too early to begin really like parsing through the, the why of it in terms from like the, who voted how I think the bigger picture, um picture has been clear just about how liberals

and liberalism have this is like it's it's like policing it's like a failed project that's not rendering the results and in fact is only you know I think rather than being like they fumbled with the messaging or these other things they're just larger material life issues that have gone that went completely unaddressed, especially during the Biden administration that I think opens people up to being like, well, definitely not this while not considering what the alternative is. And some people absolutely did consider the alternative and fully embrace it. I mean, I look at the results just even in California with some of the ballot propositions that went through like being like, yeah, let's keep like, uh, incarcerated people in a form of slavery. Like let's, let's uphold that norm. Let's also add some more severe

punishments, uh, to very small crimes. So I've, I mean, broadly the, there was a, yeah, there's a lot is changing, uh, demographically, but yeah, all that to say, I mean, I there was a yeah, there's a lot is changing Demographically, but yeah all that to say. I mean, I think I'm just completely Like cook partially just like yeah, but I'm also fucking I'm like pissed that I even allowed myself to yeah You know me too. I I here's the thing We always Are at least for me personally, right? Like elections and things that happen in politics,

I'm always kind of like, all right, America, like, let's see how fucked up we are. Yeah. And how much we are not seeing the bigger picture. And watching those results, I think, was just a grim reminder of the fact that this country has and always will be this sort of same thing, which is foundationally like this sort of the white supremacist capitalist patriarchy. Yeah. And despite the, the, the, the vibrations, uh, that were, that abound at the end of the

day, fundamentally, that's kind of like where we sort of end up sliding back to, um, without any, especially when we're not offering people something truly truly different because that's so allergic to offering something that is actually substantive and Progressive in a fundamental way if capital isn't centered then it's right. That's absolute anathema to these people Yeah, I mean there were like Rashida Tali I mean, there were like Rashida Tlaib won reelection with 77% of the vote. Ilhan Omar won reelection with 75% of the vote because they have convictions and their convictions don't align with sort of the liberal order that's represented by the mainstream media.

And so they're treated as unpopular, those convictions, but they're not unpopular with people. They're unpopular with the media. Some progressive policies did okay on ballot measures in places that you wouldn't expect them to, protecting abortion rights, raising the minimum wage. Like in Missouri, where people voted for Trump, like hard, went hard for Trump they voted for abortion rights and increased minimum wage paid sick leave

And then they also voted for Donald Trump by landslide It really feels like the thing that didn't do well Is the mainstream Democratic Party and then I would say also the mainstream media's sort of narrative around the election just didn't didn't resonate with people but really like this strategy of changing convictions based on what they thought was going to be the most convenient for them electorally yeah like they continue to treat politics as a game that they act like we don't know they're playing right, you know, and it's so clear right like the pandering from from like Democrats this like sort of neoliberal set and courting people on the right

Shows already that values are negotiable, you know, if you're if you're suddenly like, yeah, you know what, I'm actually I'm actually for something more like severe as a severe form of immigration control. And you waiver on those things, then we can't reasonably expect them to deliver on those things if those values are not set in they're not core value, like the values are just interchangeable. They're, they're transactional. And they haven't really delivered. So as they move to the right to court, those people on the right, you get the you get the base of people who've been supporting Democrats who feel cheated.

And they're like, what the fuck? Why are they going? What the fuck is what's over there? I thought this shit was about what we're doing over here. And then the people on the right see the Democrats coming towards them. And they're like, oh, these people are just they fucking say whatever man like yeah i'm not i'm not sure but it like the republicans have been saying the same shit forever basically just at louder volumes from time to time um and yeah i i again i'm like, I'm very this is again, this is the first time I'm taught like we're talking about this.

So forgive me, because my thoughts are like all over the place. I'm very concerned about the future for younger people. I'm very concerned about trans people. I'm very concerned about immigrants. I'm very I'm just generally a lot of things become very very Existential like very quickly just thinking about this presidency Yeah, and I think on I think immediately what what people are probably going to experience first is more just like the neglect of The government like it's not so much as like people are gonna be coming for people more so that

No one gives a fuck about you is probably I feel like probably like the first phase of what this is all going to feel like yeah and and then the coming for you I think will yeah at certain point because I think the the lack of social safety nets the just destruction of public education public health and things like that are going to manifest in these other sort of chaotic ways that we're all going to have to deal with. The one thing that I am thinking of is that what is clear is we have to now first of all motherfuckers, brunch is canceled forever. Forever. Brunch is over. Brunch is died.

And we have to really think about too, I think one thing is that it was easy to just be like, oh, yeah, you know what, maybe common just like kind of just slow down the rot and won't have to really, really have to take radical action to help other people. But I think now with Trump in the White House is that that's becoming very real. That's how I'm kind of trying to figure out what how I'm going to feel good is that people are going to need help because it's not going to come from the places that it usually does. And this hopefully can reinforce our sense of community and connect

to each other to one. And that's such a fucking three million foot altitude take right now. But that's about as much as I can articulate at the moment just given how Fucking just wild this whole situation is. Yeah I do Yeah, I mean like some of the early electoral data

suggests that like hair the places that Harris gained was like only with people who earned over a hundred thousand dollars, but then she lost. It really feels like when you have two neoliberal like options and you know, I think the Republican part and the first Trump administration kind of fits into that category where like it feels like there's this establishment system that is consistently resisting any sort of political or institutional action that would benefit people, you know, in any consistent way. You're going to consistently have a situation where whoever the party is that's in power

is going to have a massive disadvantage. And especially if they, like, it's just all the shit that we were saying along with like that seemed wild about like Harris being like, I can't think of a single thing I would have done differently and not like running away from the Biden administration in any way, you know, radical centrism, trying to like make friends with the Republicans, you know, by like being friends with Liz and Dick Cheney. Like the consistency or lack thereof really feels important to voters now and they did like they did the exact opposite.

They did, like there were New York Times articles like written approvingly about this like social media strategy on the Democratic Party's. Well, yeah, they turned up every lever except the one that was going to bring meaningful material change to people's everyday lives. It's like, well, we're not gonna, I mean, we're not gonna try and figure out how to give people better financial support or augment a child tax credit or those kinds of things,

or really implement an affordable housing plan. It just became like, what if we got the Avengers on a Zoom call on Geo TV Monday? And that maybe will that's how we can just squeak out a victory. What if we completely ignore the fact that we had so much polling around disarming Israel or not, at least continuing to continuing to happily arm Israel while they're in the midst of a genocide

when the polling clearly indicated you would gain more people by adopting that policy but they said well we only lose 5% if we don't. Yeah. You know and they're looking at numbers like that and expecting they just wanted they just like they were like let's just put our fucking head down and just get through this thing and maybe scaring the shit out of people enough about Trump will work and that clearly Spectacularly failed and there's like and you just look at how much of a vote vanished for Democrats I mean, I see people who like what happened all these votes like something's not right. I still I think people Were clearly been like what the status quo is fucking bullshit.

Yeah. And, and right now, unfortunately, the Biden administration, along with Kamala Harris is they, they are in the driver's seat for the status quo. So for most people, I think without even thinking too, I'd be like, well, it's I'm not, I'm not voting for this. Right. And I'm not sure what this will bring because I'm, I'm sure most people don't know what this will Right. And I'm not sure what this will bring because I'm I'm sure most people don't know what this will bring. Yeah. And

that's the other part that really is just the freaky and and sad and yeah again we're truly we are in the midst of a very interesting period for American history for sure. Like this is this is this is something we've never this is something we've never seen and yeah, well, we will have to figure out how to manage it. There was this New York Times article about their social media strategy where they would just like test out a bunch of things, see what works. I think I remember things like that in the 2012 Obama re-election campaign. I know I remember that being specifically a strategy with the Clinton administration where it was weather bullet, they would call it weather ballooning messaging

and seeing how, you know, focus group testing and you just like release this cloud of political nanobots trying to win this imaginary game they still think they're playing. And I'm sure there will be examples where they did talk about economically helping people, but it was like one of a thousand messages that they were putting out. And there was no conviction. And also we saw that the Biden administration at several kind of high leverage moments where like Biden threw up his hands was like, guys, I'm trying over here.

I just like can't do anything. I'm only the president of the United States. Like those are moments that I think stuck with people. And it really feels like the exact opposite, like consistency of message and of values and being able to stick to a central message is incredibly important. Now it's what drove like the, nobody saw coming Sanders campaign. Like we talked about how like Trump, when he came to power, there was like all this, you know, the people who saw him coming were like, there's just

appetite for an anti establishment pick and being the establishment and just frantically trying to say whatever it is you think people want to hear from you is like the exact opposite of what is going to resonate with people. Yeah. So, yeah, that's kind of where I'm at with like how we got here. Let's take a quick break and we'll come back. Hey, Bo.

Hey, Matt. Can you believe we have yet another very special episode coming up? This one is very close to my heart. We'll be joined by Friend, the star of the upcoming Wicked film, the one and only Ariana Grande will be here in the studio with us. We hope this episode of Last Culture gives you so much joy. The episode is dropping this Wednesday, my birthday, November 6th. And of course, please go see Wicked when it comes out. November 22nd, don't miss it.

Listen to Las Culturas, that's on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Brandon Kyle Goodman. I'm a black, gay, non-binary author, TV writer, actor, and I'm messy. But not in the way you think. Messy as in I'm human and flawed. I'm on a mission to destroy shame around sex. And the only way to do that is to talk about sex. So that's what we'll do on my brand new podcast, Tell Me Something Messy.

OK, let's play this messy round of smash or pass. OK, here it is, smash or pass. Spit play. I don't know. I don't know how I feel about bodily fluids being on me unless it's Baby like I always say if you know how to work that body, that sexualness, and that heart, you're unstoppable. Embrace your power.

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on the things that you bring us. While we may be unlicensed to advise, we're gonna do it anyway. Listen to Call It What It Is on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and expanding your horizons? Hit play on the sex-positive and deeply entertaining podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.

Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Pedersen-Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart Podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. And we're back. Yeah, I retweeted this video from David Graeber. Like, you know, he died in 2020, but just talking about, oh, like the failings of liberalism. Yeah, just like the radical centrism. Yeah. Of like, you know, he talks about how Obama, and I think this

extends to Clinton, they were basically people who became popular because they were charismatic enough to make it seem like they believed in something. Yes. Had all the gestures and the aesthetic of a movement, you know, like we had the Obama poster we had, you know, there was just, but then they ultimately don't deliver on that. And you ultimately end up like me making, I don't know, like that, that has to be damaging

to the overall brand of the democratic party when they are appropriating the images of the ideals of progressive politics and then, you know, not not delivering on it. So I mean, this is all like long term problems that I think a lot of people have been identifying for a long time. But I do think all of these different strands are coming back and taking a giant shit on our faces. Totally. Yeah, I don't know, man. I really don't. Historically, we've just seen the pattern play out over and over and over again. Unfortunately, and we just absolutely, you know, unfortunately, because all of the power is concentrated at the top, just are learning zero lessons. And that's really frustrating from just the way that the way this campaign happened, the lack of a primary, there's just,

I think that's the thing. It's like, so right now being in this moment, cause it's like right after like just being in this moment, because it's like right after like just being in a car accident and like you're just kind of peeling your face off the airbag for anybody who's unfortunately been in an airplane, like a car accident like that. It's fucking disorienting. You know, you're like, fuck. And right now, you're all these things are like rushing through in my head

of all the different ways that these little blunders were adding up to something like this. I just hope that you know, like in a just world, this would be the end of the Democratic Party in this current incarnation. But I think we have to also be really real about the fact that the the current this party will not really change the fact that this party will not really change in terms of being able to move beyond the worship of capital and making line go up. It's a massive, extremely well-funded, extremely sophisticated machine designed to convert convert, you know, our impulses for change and progressive ideals and progressive movements into like, you know, market based. Yeah, yeah.

Political movement. And that that's what it does. That is kind of its whole, like if you look back on it over the past, you know, 20 years, that is really what it is designed to do. Yeah, I think that's, that's just a moment for, I think for a long time, you know, like, we're always like demanding better, you know, it's like they can do better, they can do better and they can, but intellectually and the way the ideology of the party works, it's incapable of it.

Can gesture to it, can do things like incrementally but not in the truly meaningful way. And I think the only hope, the other hope that I can hold out for is A, like, you know, we were talking and with Crofton talking about the passing of time and finding old civil war rifles in a river is that things are things are always in flux. So, yeah, this this era of American politics is fully shifting into something different now, or at least the more aggressive form of being like total mask off like y'all are on your own kind of shit. But there is going to be an opportunity for people with actual convictions to hopefully fill in, just to sort of recapture what people can believe in too. I don't think that's going to happen now, but there's, the bottom line is I think too many people feel completely cut out of a normal life. And because of that, there's just resentment

going in so many different directions. And yeah, holding onto the message of just saying, like, we're gonna give you the same thing, but maybe with a few more celebrity endorsements, it's just not enough, it's not enough. It's not enough. Yeah, I don't know what else I really don't know what to say. I'm kind of like, I'm just cooked, dude. I'm like, I'm so sorry, y'all. It's, it just, I've, I also just, I just, honestly, I feel really fucking awful too. For just for like a fleeting moment being like, oh yeah, this, this, this may be, maybe

this isn't where things are headed when like deep down, like I could just feel like this is so bad. You're not giving people anything. You're not talking to people where they're at. You're not acknowledging their suffering. Yeah. And yeah, absolutely. It's yeah, I feel I feel terrible. I feel like I fucked up. I got caught up in, you know, polling and bullshit like that and just, you know, hope that this would somehow like stave off the full.

Right. Because I think at the end, because at the end of the day, like, I mean, the pattern was always going to be if material conditions aren't being improved for people, they are going to begin to open up to alternative forms of governance, whatever that is, good or bad. Because again, what is on offer is not doing it. So like knowing that deep down It's just like I think it's also because you just want to you just be like fuck dude I know like what this world is so fucking unfair, but The but again the levies were going to have to break at some point

And I think this is how it's doing it. I think all of the finger pointing I'm seeing in certain op-eds and online are not really helpful at the moment. Because I think the larger picture, it's not like, well, what if so-and-so did better or whatever? I mean, I'm sure we'll be able to talk about that a lot more once you fully dive into the data. But I think at the end of the day, what the biggest issue was is that the status quo is absolutely fucking killing people, not just here, but abroad. And the answer to that as an electoral strategy was to just keep insisting on it. Was an absolute blunder. Um, but I think for the consultants that were running Joe Biden's

campaign and then took over Kamala's campaign, they just felt because of their utter disconnection from what actual people are feeling, they're like, no, man, just fucking get, we'll say some cool stuff. We'll get some really cool glitzy public appearances and things like that. And we'll just gesture to the fact that we're not these people. And that's just not enough.

So, yeah, I'm curious to see what, you know, how the establishment Democrats reckon with this, because I don't know if they're going to keep blaming other people. Oh, yeah, because I mean, I I would, I would be shocked if they were like, we just really need to meet people where they're at. I mean, like the thing I'm seeing from more people is like talk about like, we need our own Prager university. We need our own daily wires. Like, I mean, you guys, like this is, this kind of already exists in the form of

like mainstream media, but yeah, but mainstream media rejects certain things. So like it's, I do feel like the mainstream media is just the like doing kind of the same thing that the democratic party isn't taking those ideals and then converting them into market, you know, pro market capitalism. And they're like, they are playing and buying into that same game of, you know,

politics is convincing people you're gonna do what they want you to do. And then like ultimately doing whatever's best for the market, like that assumption is just like built in. And I just, yeah, there has to be consistency and convictions. And yeah, maybe a primary will help. Maybe actually, you know, having a democratic primary next time will help and will reveal some candidate.

One of the effective things I saw in the mainstream media that did stick with me was, actually, I think it was Jon Stewart just showing people's reactions to each of the losses, like both Democrat and Republican. And like they were always like coming up with some solution, like sort of the mainstream response was like, well, now the Republican Party will need to be like a softer, gentler Republican Party ahead of like the rise of Trumpism. And, you know, now the Democratic Party will have to like move towards the Republican Party. And it's never, it's never right.

The, the message that people have in the offing and usually the way that their uh, conventional political strategist wisdom gets upset is by a candidate coming out of the woodwork, you know, Obama or Trump or something like that, and not being what people expect, at least on the surface. So maybe a primary will reveal somebody who is able to, you know, have consistency and convictions. But right now it just feels like really hard to imagine a version of the Democratic Party that is not because it's just so wild that after 2016, the lessons were so profoundly unlearned. Yeah, I know. I know.

Came back and did the same fucking thing in 2024. And then they just skated. And lost in the exact same way. Got through by the fucking film on their dentures in 2020. Yeah. And we're like, yeah, fuck yeah, that worked. That worked. That worked.

Yeah. And when you look at like the number of registered Republicans that got picked off, it was like 6% went Biden's way in 2020, like 5% went that, all that work for fucking 5%. Yeah, and that's- They lost the, they won fewer or a smaller percentage of the Republican vote after focusing their entire closing message on courting Republican voters with like Dick

and Liz Cheney. The Trump campaign's research, like the New York Times wrote an article about like the closing messaging from both of the campaigns. The Trump campaign's research found that up for grabs voters were about six times as likely as other battleground state voters to be motivated by their views of Israel's war in Gaza and changed their messaging to, you know, make empty gestures at that, at being like anti war. Obviously, they are not going to be an anti war administration, but like they at least

were willing to acknowledge that and change that messaging. Yeah. But yeah, the trying to run right didn't work. Didn't work. They lost with everybody who makes less than $100,000. They gained with people who make over $100,000 a year and lost ground with people who make less a hundred thousand dollars a year and lost ground with people who make less than that. Yeah and uh yeah I guess uh and numerically guess who there's more of. Yeah.

Yeah I just I think again the one thing I think I think for everybody listening like this feels shitty it is shitty uh it's perfectly okay to like grieve whatever sort of future you thought may have been coming. But I think on the other side of that, for those of us who are really engaged and have empathy, the real challenge is now going to be that like our challenge is going to be in how we are able to protect each other, how we can really, again, the things that were fucking this country up, we're not going to be solved in a presidential election, given what was on offer. But there's a lot to be done in your immediate community and what you are in control of around you locally. And that's, I think, the place to really pour the energy into because

locally and that's I think the place to really pour the energy into because people it's the people that are around you that are going to need like we are going to need each other the most and I think that's we have to open ourselves up to truly is to step up to that challenge to really really really be committed to that because that's how that's the only way we're gonna kind of be able to weather whatever storm is coming our way's the only way we're going to kind of be able to weather whatever storm is coming our way. And the only way we can really feel good about it. So I don't I know it feels like absolute shit right now. And that's OK, because it it's totally fucking it's terrible to like watch a thing happen where you're like,

I think this is a car crash in slow motion. And I'm not the greatest thinker here, but I feel like this is a misstep and watch that happen. It's terrible. It's difficult. And to see people emboldened on the right, it's awful. And it feels like the country fucking hates you, especially for marginalized people. You're like, maybe, you know, maybe, maybe they do give a fuck about what these

kinds of outcomes are. And I think rather than looking at it that way, we just have to understand that there are most people do want to the best for like their neighbors. And I think we have to really like pour into that because I think, again, hitching our wagon to the star of electoral politics is very difficult and as we've seen, can just bring utter disappointment. So I think, yeah, cool. Yeah, take rest up, rest up. The process is in order and we need to get to work.

And yeah, helping each other at like a local level and not waiting for the Democratic Party to figure out things that they are designed not to figure out. It turns out. Yeah. All right. We'll leave it there. We'll be back tomorrow with the whole last episode of the show.

Yeah. Until then, be kind to each other. Be kind to yourself. Get the vaccine. Yeah. Until then, be kind to each other. Be kind to yourself. Get the vaccine. Jesus. The healthcare thing was like the fifth thing that like RFK is going to have a major role in the future of the healthcare of this country. Get your flu shots.

Get your vaccines. Don't do nothing about white supremacy. And we'll talk to you all tomorrow. Bye. Bye. Bye. of the upcoming Wicked film, the one and only Ariana Grande, will be here in the studio with us. We hope this episode of Lost Culture gives you so much joy. The episode is dropping this Wednesday, my birthday, November 6th. And of course, please go see Wicked when it comes out.

November 22nd, don't miss it. Listen to Lost Culture East us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Brandon Kyle Goodman. I'm a black, gay, non-binary author, TV writer, actor, and I'm messy. But not in the way you think. Messy as in I'm human and flawed. I'm on a mission to destroy shame around sex.

And the only way to do that is to talk about sex. So that's what we'll do on my brand new podcast, Tell Me Something Messy. Join me on Tell Me Something Messy with brand new episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, 1974. George Foreman was champion of the world. Ali was smart and he was handsome. Story behind the Rumble in the Jungle is like a Hollywood movie. But that is only half the story.

There's also James Brown, Bill Withers, BB King, Miriam Makeba. All the biggest black artists on the planet. Together in Africa. It was a big deal. Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman, and the Soul of 74 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey friends, I'm Jessica Kapshaw.

And this is Camilla Luddington. And we have a new podcast, call it what it is. You may know us from Graceland Memorial, but did you know that we are actually besties in real life? And as all besties do, we navigate the highs and lows of life together. Big or small, we're there. And now here we are,

opening up the friendship circle to you. Listen to Call It What It Is on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality, cruising and expanding your horizons? Hit play on the sex positive and deeply entertaining podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.

Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson-Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is a production of iHeart.