The Daily Zeitgeist - Human Artists > A.I. With Adam Conover 07.18.23

Episode Date: July 18, 2023

In episode 1516, Jack and Miles are joined by comedian, writer, executive producer, and TV host, Adam Conover, to discuss… Union/WGA Strike, Why This Could Be a Huge Moment for Labor, How Unions Help Consumers, The AI Question and more! Check Out Adam Conover's Tour Dates Here: www.AdamConover.net/tourdates/ Support the Entertainment Community Fund Here!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me for I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and Shekinah Church. Listen to Forgive Me for I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just

starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports.

Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese on the iHeart on the iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you

get your podcast presented by elf beauty founding partner of iheart women's sports hello the internet and welcome to season 296 episode one of your daily zeitgeist a production of iheart radio this is a podcast where we take a deep dive into american shared consciousness and it is tuesday july 18th 2023 oh yeah very oh yeah some great it's it's nelson mandela international day national sour candy day world listening day uh because you're doing that right now national tropical fruit day and actually a good topic uh or at least related to the topic we're talking about today or at least tangentially it's national caviar day as well so i imagine yeah july 18th sorry i just have to act like i didn't know it wasn't already celebrating to seem like a man of the people i had no idea

dripping down your face so much caviar gotlayer dip. That's just seven different types of caviar. You put that good stuff in the bottom, man. It's all creme fraiche at the top. Creme fraiche. Ah. Well, my name is Jack O'Brien, a.k.a. Barbenheimer girl. Destroyer of your world.

Melt like plastic. It's fantastic. Lose your golden hair. Destruction everywhere. Radiation. Life ends by your creation. Barbenheimer. Lake of Fire.

Oh, oh, yeah. Barbenheimer. Lake of Fire. Oh, yeah. That is courtesy of Discorderoid on the Discord. Thank you, Michael Barbaro. And I'm thrilled to be joined, joined as always by my co-host mr miles gray miles gray aka in the gravy you can up your podcasties in the gravy you could host

mad boosties in the gravy you can smoke mad bleeds in the gravy. Okay, shout out to me, because I still have village people on the brain. Yeah. And you know what's wild? I didn't mention this when we were talking about it. Like, half of their songs are, like, derivations of the hits. So, like, these other songs I'd never heard of had, like, almost the exact same. Like, nearly the same structure. And, like, key changes or, like, like three courses where in your mind you're

like wait hold on this is macho man and you're like oh no it's not they're saying something completely different anyway shout out them yeah i gotta give a shout out to uh zeitgang zeitgeist listener smooth loo i believe is the name smooth loo okay who solved the mystery. Did you see this on Twitter? No, of 2000. Wait, what was it? Grand Puba. It's a Grand Puba track. From 1995, I guess. Did you go back and you checked it out?

Yeah, yeah. It's definitely, that's the song. Oh, wait, wasn't it? It's a track called 2000. Yeah. I don't know why it took us so long i guess it like didn't didn't really hit that hard on the internet wow wow wow yeah check out that song it's okay kind of it's kind of good i stand by my reference to 2000 yeah man i still

love it okay the energy is still there wow Wow. Shout out. Zyking. Honestly, you guys fucking between all of y'all, we don't need Google and we could have Googled it, but it was hard to just Google 2000 song lyric. We really tried. smooth Lou. Great, great Twitter handle. Uh,

even better at, uh, saving my ass from making it seem like I was referencing a Billy Joel song. Yeah. Smooth Lou. We owe you a hamburger. Yes. Smooth Lou, we owe you a hamburger. Yes. Smooth Lou came through with that.

Said, I got you, fam. Thanks for all you do. And then somebody else came through and vouched for Smooth Lou. Was like, pretty cool, dude. I miss you, Smooth Lou. No. So much love to Smooth Lou. Wow.

This one goes out to you. All right, Miles. It's a special episode. We're talking labor. I'm sorry. I'm still blown away that Smooth Lou put this together. I'm still like, I'm really. I mean, did you hear it? Did you hear the song?

No. Yeah, I started playing it a second ago, and I'm like, this is, wow. Yeah. Big poop ahead over here. Yeah. Damn. All right. Anyway, sorry. Anyways. Back to you, Jack. And back to you, Miles. Yeah. Big poop ahead over here. Yeah. Damn. All right. Anyway, sorry. Anyway, back to you, Jack. And back to you, Miles. Yep. No, back to you. No, back to you, fam. Nope. So this episode, we are. No. And I'm still going to go back to you, pal. We're talking the writer strike, the actor strike, ultimately the labor movement in general yes yes in researching this and reading

about unions and hearing people talk about the history of hollywood i guess a thing that i knew but hadn't really thought that much about is that hollywood is like one of the most consistently unionized industries left in this country like yeah with that kind of visibility yeah for sure yeah when i think unions like i think you know guys on die like jimmy hoffa you know international brotherhood of electrical workers yeah exactly you don't think about hollywood you don't think about the glitz and glam but i also spent a lot of time just thinking about i don't know you know i'm a movie guy i i think the movies are just all right. Yeah, I know. You haven't met a movie you didn't like.

It gave us Star Wars. It gave us Jaws. It gave us some other movies, probably. But when you look at the history of the industry across the hundred years that it has been unionized, it's hit

some pretty high highs. Like, an entertainment industry. For some reason, I kept thinking about this time. I went over to Ireland, like, in the early 2000s. I know, I know. I know, I always talk about it. I always talk about the cuisine, brag about the cuisine. But everybody, first of all, the only thing on TV was the simpsons which thank you that that was

wonderful i will take that and also the rachel like i'd say 40 of the girls were rocking the rachel from from friends like just the the level of like hollywood's influence is you influence can't be overstated. Well, 100%. What's that? No, I said 100%. I mean, and also you kind of date. Everyone had their Rachel back then? Yeah.

How old were you then? I was 20. You're like, I was 30. 21. I was 19. You're like, hold on, hold on. I was like seven years old. Oh, but I guess so too.

Europe also had that delay of American trends hitting about four years old. Oh, but I guess so too. Like Europe also had that delay of like American trends hitting about like four years later. For sure. Exactly. But just, I don't know. I like, we talk a lot of shit about movies and TV, but like across just viewing the body of work across, like it has created a great deal of iconic lasting art that like breaks through to the mainstream. And I think, i think you can draw

like you would never hear these two things connected but just in thinking about the history like it it really is we have that history because of unions and we're going to talk about that a little bit and like just the the fact that the creative people the artists who drive the actual original creative ideas that like get turned into movies that like define generations you know like those people are protected by a union and when they're not like you you see we'll talk about what studios want to do with them what these streaming companies are trying to do with them so it's a it's an interesting conversation that i think kind of stretches the brain in in a lot of different directions and also you know it's it's an important moment oh yeah and i mean i think and we talked about this off mic before of like you know when else have you seen in like union members with the

kind of visibility that the wga or sag does right you know and i think there's a lot of attention on this obviously because of like the nature of the work that people do but i think there's there's something that i'd imagine a lot of other industries are looking at to see how this is resolved whether like they you know they go the cynical route like we've heard in like leaked quotes where they're like yeah wait till they start getting evicted and then they'll start you know like we'll use the loss of housing as a negotiating tactic yeah we'll see how cynical it goes or if you know i think i have a feeling that after these studios see just how devoid of talent and energy some of their like marketing things have been without the people that you know make the shit come to life yeah uh that they may they may come around but hey we shall see and i think that's

where we have a great i think we're also going to end up talking about we haven't had the conversation yet we're about to have but yeah i i think we'll end up talking about ai because i think it's also revealing about just where their priorities are on the studio side that they that the ai side is so important like yeah i don't know if they're fooled by the chat gpt or if they think that the chat gpt is going to be like good enough to fool audiences but i think they think it's like if they can just get that domino to fall then all their problems are solved right they can reap all the benefits but it like sounds like someone who's like trying to get like a english lit phd something is like, we should be allowed to use SparkNotes in the exams and whenever we'd like.

I'm being serious. I'm being like, no, I think you found a shortcut that you need. All right. Well, we are thrilled to be joined by someone with a seat at the table during these negotiations, Adam Conover. So we'll be right back with Adam. We'll be right back with Adam. We'll be right back. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series, Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult.

And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and LA-based Shekinah Church, an alleged cult that has impacted members for over two decades. Jessica and I will delve into the hidden truths between high-control groups and interview dancers, church members, and others whose lives and careers have been impacted just like mine through powerful in-depth interviews with former members and new chilling firsthand accounts the series will illuminate untold and extremely necessary perspectives forgive me for i have followed will be more than an exploration it's a vital revelation aimed at ensuring these types of abuses never happen again listen to forgive me for i have followedRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente.

And I'm Jamee Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions. Like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or Or can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Santer. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies.

Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports, where we live at the intersection of sports and culture.

Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry, Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Every great player needs a foil. I ain't really near them. Why is that? Just come here and play basketball every single day, and that's what I focus on. From college to the pros, Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Angel Reese is a joy to watch. She is unapologetically black. I love her.

What exactly ignited this fire? Why has it been so good for the game? And can the fanfare surrounding these two supernovas be sustained? This game is only going to get better because the talent is getting better. This new season will cover all things sports and culture. Listen to Naked Sports on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by Diet Coke.

And we're back. And we are thrilled to be joined in our third seat by a very funny comedian writer executive producer tv host and labor organizer who you know from adam ruins everything his podcast factually and being out in these streets picketing acting as a member of the negotiating committee serving on the wga west board of directors It's lovely to be here. That was all my credits. I have a lot of titles now. Have those things I'm not doing now because I'm on strike. I'm not a TV host right now.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, that's all cat. Never mind those things. Nascent. When it's all over, I'll be back on your screens, you know? There you go. Yes, yes, yes. Well, thanks for joining us. I can't imagine this is a busy time for you at all. Yeah, I was just... Sounds like I got nothing going on. I was just out on the street, you know, for three, four hours, 90 degree heat with the sign talking to people.

It's a blast, man. It's I'm having so much fun out there. The solidarity feels so good. It's just it's great. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, people are making sacrifices, you know, but there's our political director, this wonderful woman, Rachel Torres. She's brilliant. She told me, you know, if you're smiling while you're sacrificing, if you're having a good time while you're making the sacrifice, then they can't beat you. And I think that that is really true. out there on the yeah people it's it's a party a guy brought a sound system to netflix and now he's playing like sort of mid-tempo like dance music you know it feels like kind of that kind of that outdoor day club like pool club kind of right people almost feel like they should be having frozen cocktails walking around like it's just the vibes are good and then he's like remixed like people giving speeches like fran drescher's speech someone told me he like remixed one of my tiktoks into a song of like you know so you

want to pick a line line line line line line and you sent him a takedown notice immediately i'm saying right yeah yeah better yeah like who signed off but yeah i mean we were talking with this feels like a huge moment for labor these are you know with the wga some of the most influential like unionized union protected workers on the planet but with with actors with the screen actors guild you know the faces the yeah yeah beauty yeah it's the brain beauty and brains coming together you know but yeah i don't know just kind of thinking about this think about the history of labor and unions in hollywood it feels like hollywood to this point the fact that unions

have been a presence in hollywood for as long they have. It's a great learning moment for why capitalism doesn't work without unions, basically. Yeah. Well, it's an open question whether capitalism works at all, you know? I think we're arguing, yeah, like unions are the thing that keep people from being like, oh, Marx was definitely right. It's like we're just bad enough that people are like, marx was definitely right it's like just bad enough that people are like i don't know it's not bad yeah right i mean look i sort of don't get into marxism socialism i don't do isms i just know that the union and the union structure is the only

way to fight back right and so so i you know the union is a hammer and i grab the hammer and i start smashing shit and it's really fun. Yeah. So, I mean, the only reason people even think of writing, acting, directing as being lucrative jobs, you know, like if you say, oh, my cousin's an actor in L.A., you might be, oh, if he's working, he's making good money. Right. That's what your assumption is. That's only because we've had strong unions in this town for 90 years the writers school was founded 90 years ago and it's only because those unions went on strike uh the last time the writers and actors went on strike together was 1960 and in that negotiation we won our health and pension plans and we won the existence of residual payments

which are the payments we get every time the product is aired right and and uh that's why i have a health and pension today is because they went on strike then that's why i've gotten residuals to help tide me through the slow periods of my career uh is because of uh those actors and writers going on strike and so now it's our turn to do the same thing and that's why we're out there yeah as as a thought experiment i was trying to think of like what do we think the last 90 years of movies and TV look like if the industries were never unionized? YouTube. Looks like YouTube. People barely scraping by.

Or it looks like, I mean, look at Korea, for instance. Or the anime industry. Those are two extremely popular, they make a lot of media that's consumed by a lot of people. And the people who make the media aren't able to make a living. There was a great piece in the LA Times a couple weeks ago. Right. That guy made from the first season, which was a, again, worldwide smash, like Game of Thrones level, you know, people watching it. He made two hundred thousand dollars. Yeah, that's, you know, that's a good living. Right. That's not what you should get if you made the most popular show ever. Right. And that's the guy who created the show. The people who work on the shows and the people who create, you know, your more average K dramas, right?

That, you know, I hear about one or two K dramas or K comedies a year, but you know, the ones that are a little further down the pipe that the real fans watch, those people are literally not making a living making television. They are writing those shows in between their day jobs or they're working 18 hour days and then when the show ends they're just like

well back to my day job right and this this article you can look up la times you know squid game korean google that you'll find the article um goes into really long detail on that and the reason is there's no unions and uh netflix is exploiting that i mean they talk about netflix came into that market and said oh we want to you know spread korean content around the world right and they created a lot of work they created a lot of shows but no one's being paid because the stand the work standards are so abysmal um it's it's sweatshop media unfortunately yeah yeah i had no idea that that was the thing. I mean, again, obviously, cause a lot of Korean media is so good that I was like, Oh, this

is a natural progression of things. And then I remember saying, Oh, Netflix is going in. Like, but there was a moment when I was like, Oh, they're going in. Like I, to the point where I was like, Oh, they might, they're really trying to put their foot down in Korea. I had no ideas because they're like, yeah, man, you can get away with anything over here. Yeah. That's exactly right i mean it's just like a it's a car company you know moving to mexico right or to any other or you know nike in bangladesh right it's uh they're

they are taking advantage of poor work standards to get the product a lot cheaper and you know why do the companies love anime you know it's awesome as an american you know, why do the companies love anime? You know, it's awesome as an American, you know, someone who grew up, you know, trading VHS tapes of anime. Right. That it's like popular in the U.S. now. It's popular around the world. That's great. But, I mean, you guys know that horrible conditions that anime has made. And, I mean, people die in that industry.

Yeah, like the Simpsons would make jokes about it, I remember. And I was like, is that a joke or is that one of those Simpsons jokes? And they're like, no, no, no, that's real. It's awful. It's awful. And that's one of the reasons they're pumping it out is they feel that they can get more content for less dollars. Now, the thing about that, though, is that American media is still the most popular, valuable media in the world, right? It's still what people want to watch like from a big budget thing like avatar 2 right to you know even uh you know reruns of old sitcoms right people are still watching friends in australia you know yeah ireland yeah and new

shows as well right that is what people want to watch more than anything else, both in America and around the world. And one of the reasons for that is because the entertainment industry has been the only place that paid creators fairly for the last hundred years. You know, if you are a great writer and you want to make, if you want to, if you want to buy a big house of your writing, you know, where are you going to go? Are you going to work in journalism? Are you going to work in novels? No, you're going to go try to sell a big movie script, right? That's been the pattern in Hollywood up until basically the early two thousands, where you had the best writer, literally Faulkner and Fitzgerald came to Hollywood, right. To write movies. And, you know, think about that. Well, they both drank themselves to death, but too much money. Yeah. But, you know, that was that was the way it worked. And the companies have broken that compact. And as a result, the content is getting worse, unfortunately.

the actor doesn't matter. The writing doesn't matter. All that matters is Spider-Man. People will go to see Spider-Man no matter what, you know, no matter who's in the suit, no matter what he's saying. Right. And it's not actually true because,

you know, look at what happened with the flash, right? They realized they can't just cram in superheroes and expect people to show up. Right. But you know, all that,

that makes the CEOs think is they need to pump harder. They need to, you know, get more blood out of that stone. But so these companies are destroying the compact. And why did the compact work? Because of unions. We had strong unions here. We had good working conditions. That meant people wanted to move here to Los Angeles or to New York to make the content. And we're fighting to change that, to make it the way it

should be. I feel like The Flash is a good example of you know the flash recently came out indiana jones recently came out and the primary complaint that you heard from them is creepy cgi like terrible weird cgi that take takes you out of it and like effects are a frequent complaint and you hear people wonder how this happens on some of these movies. They spent $300 million on effects and it's at least partially because the effects houses are not unionized. That is not a

part of the industry that is protected. And so you have situations where the effects house that won the Oscar for Life of Pi is out of business by the time they get the award. Yeah. I've talked to people who work at FX Houses for Marvel, and they're treated terribly. They're asked to do impossible things on impossible turnarounds that, oh, we want it like this. No, we want it like this. You have to change everything, but we're not going to pay you more,

and you have half as much time to do it. know that kind of request the people who work at the at these companies you know their careers last five years and then they burn out because they can't do it anymore it's a lot like video games right and you know the the proof is in the pudding but also you know we're on we're in a new era of the special effects right it used to be the special effects the the cgi was there to impress and delight the audience right oh my, look at the Terminator in Terminator 2, right? He's melting. He's the melty man. It's liquid. Look how cool. Or Toy Story, right? Look how great it looks. Now they use it as a cost-cutting device. They use it in order to, they're like, oh, if we just like send it all to a VFX house that's

non-union and make them do all the work, it's a lot cheaper. You know, if you look at the difference between, look, the new Mission Impossible, right? I saw it. Look, it's not a good movie, but it's... You don't think it's an accurate depiction of AI? Well, it is interesting that the villain is AI, right? Right. The script is, I don't want to get into it, right? But the action scenes, right? It's got these two

incredible action sequences that are totally worth seeing in a theater. Had people hooting and hollering. Great time. And why did they work so well? Because they fucking happened in real life. Because they put in the effort and the craft and the time to, you know,

go to the place and do the stunt and shoot the thing or to build the set or to buy the car or to put the person in the place right and uh for movies like the flash they're like just have the guy stand in front of a green screen and we'll make some underpaid couple bozos yeah you know sorry they're not bozos they're great artists but they're underpaid they don't have enough time you're working in terrible conditions. Yeah, so it's cut rate. It's sweatshop content. What about another lightning portal in the sky?

What if we did one of those? I feel like people are just coming out of portals and stuff. Yeah, there's portals, right? There's flashy stuff. Adam, I got to ask, though, right? These costs, the studios got to cut costs because I've heard it straight from their mouths. Times are tough. Oh yeah.

For studios. I heard Bobby J I'll say Iger in a very fancy way, uh, you know, really be out here being like, you know, their, their demands are unrealistic or other people.

I've heard the, I've heard the thing over and over that times are hard for studios. And we've talked a lot about this where, you know, Iger's pay was what approaching approaching $27 million for the year. And like people like what David Zaslav almost made like a quarter of a billion dollars in 2021. Yeah. What, how would you define, from their perspective, it's that they're trying to inaccurately describe a problem that they, maybe they have created through their own business decisions?

Yeah. I mean, that's a wonderful answer to your own question. That's a great way to put it. I mean, look, these guys are raking it in. And let's be really clear. So writer producer pay has fallen by 23% at the median over the last 10 years. That's the Writers Guild's own figures. That's total pay. Over the same time, show budgets have gone up by 50%. Revenue has gone up. Profits have gone up for these companies, just their entertainment divisions. I'm not even talking about, you know, Disney's

got sports, they've got theme parks. We're not talking about that. We're just talking about literally the entertainment divisions of the companies. Revenue, profits, budgets all up while our salaries go down. At the same time, they're paying these CEOs massive, massive amounts of money. I mean, Bob Iger, when he made those comments, he had just negotiated for himself an additional two years, and he's making an extra 50 million bucks a year. That guy doesn't fucking need that money. He's already incredibly wealthy. If you look at the aggregate he's made over the last 10 years, how dare he go on television and plead poverty while the rest of us are not able to make a living while his workforce is not able to make health insurance or you know

make a living anymore it's revolting but it's line goes up shit right it's that they're answering to the wall street and for wall street it's never enough like when you have a good year that that is an indication that you should keep being better years. Like that's what we want to consistently see that line. Also these, but, but it's not just that because growth is growth is possible, right?

If you do, you can do it the right way. You can pay everybody properly and make good shit that people actually like and make more money. That's my belief in life. And there's companies that fucking do it right and also it's what the entertainment industry did for a long time like a lot of people were paid shitty in the entertainment industry you know like the unions are the ones that you know that protected us pas are we have always been paid shittily there's a lot of bad shit in Hollywood. But like, you know, from the 80s through the 2000s, everybody liked the product, right? We had peak TV, right? Everyone

had cable. We were watching ads. We were fine with it. We could watch on demand or use DVR if we needed to. You know what I mean? Everything was, people were making so much money. People were going to the movie theater. The content was good, you know, and the people who made it were paid. And now what's happening? People don't like the product anymore. You know, the Netflix revolution was a lie that they, you know, the idea that you could pay $15 a month and never have to pay another penny and never watch an ad and watch every show ever made. They were lying to the public that that was possible. They destroyed a profitable business model in order to find a new one.

But at the same time, they kept enough of the money for themselves that the people at the top are doing better while everyone else does worse. But the companies would grow more if they did it the right way, period. Yeah. The golden age of TV is a great example

of the WGA working because, you know, like you mentioned, the WGA and like the things that the wga has provided like writers with like the ability to make a living during dry periods or whatever like helps writers you know remain writers and a lot of the best tv is created by people with the long time experience in like past successful and unsuccessful TV shows. Like Breaking Bad is created by a former X-Files writer. Like there's a big break between those.

Sopranos comes from a writer on Northern Exposure. Like Matthew Weiner cut his teeth on Becker and In-Laws before he got on Sopranos. You know your shit. Yeah. on becker and in-laws before he got on sopranos you know your shit yeah like but like the you you know on your episode where like where you were talking about the strike you were talking to i think david goodman yeah who and you know he's a family guy writer who all talked told a story about how he almost quit the industry but like a residual check for a show he wrote on in the past that he said like wasn't very good but him it got him through so that he could keep being a writer and there's just all this

all this information that gets passed down like i i forget where i heard it but somebody was saying that like the family tree of all of the golden age tv shows, it all like traces back to Columbo and like that show then like created all, like all the writers on that became showrunners on other shows and it just like branched down. So we magically have this period of golden era TV, but like that doesn't happen if the television industry works the way like the, the industry that I think all three of us have a background in is creating content for the internet.

Yeah. The way that we've seen that devolve over the past 15 years... It doesn't exist anymore. It doesn't exist. There were no guardrails, and there were no ways to ensure good outcomes for the people that were contributing to that environment. Yeah, because the companies decided to pull them sell them for part for parts you know i mean look

at look i like i play video games right so i like reading video game websites there's no such thing as video game websites anymore i mean there's sites where people upload shit for free like youtube right right um where where people put in all the work and all the risk themselves of putting up work. And then, you know, if you're lucky, you get paid by YouTube if you happen to hit, right? But in terms of being somebody who's like a journalist who covers video games, goes to E3, interviews people, break stories, right? There literally are not outlets left that pay people to do this because they've been stripping them for parts. One of them that I read is Kotaku. I've read it for years. They're trying to replace those writers with AI.

They're trying to like... What's the fucking point of that? Do they think I'm going to go to Kotaku.com to read AI-generated articles? I also have ChatGPT. I can just ask ChatGPT if I want an AI

answer. Why are you hiring someone to copy paste from chat GPT? What the fuck is the point of that? Why destroy your own industry? People go because they like the people. Right. Right. And I guess there's like that. That's just like that disconnect.

We see like in every industry where, again, there's like a motive to make sure that like you provide value to shareholders while completely like missing sight of like the actual products that are being made. And like if consumers are going to be savvy enough, because look, I love bullshit reality TV, but I like like actually well-written television also. And I can already see like you like just that that shift to Max was like sort of like a preview of like the worlds we're looking at. It's like, well, remember HBO? There's that. And then there's all this other unscripted nonsense that fucking also is really cheap to make. And like, you know, kind of maybe where things should be going if writers and actors don't get off their shit.

Max is such an antithesis of the last, you know, of how you build a successful media company. Right. Like HBO. There's a wonderful book about HBO. i read it this year called it's not tv it's just a history of hbo from the beginning what you realize hbo is like this you know starts out as just a cable company that you know you pay extra and you can watch fights and stuff like that right and then they find this niche of oh we can make content that doesn't exist on broadcast, right? We can make something that's edgy. We can da, da, da, da, right? And they build it. Dream on. Exactly. Dream on, right. This show with a, because there was boobs in it, right? Yeah. Yeah. But, you know,

they do the Larry Sanders show. They do the Sopranos, right? And they sort of create prestige TV is created by HBO to the point where, you know, by, by up to, you know, three or four years ago, you know, if a show comes out on HBO, you're like, I'm going to assume this show is good. Right. Because you know that their creative culture is like, if HBO is putting their muscle behind that, it's got to be good. There's exceptions. There's stinkers, of course. Yeah, sure. Like, like, uh, you know, the idol or whatever, but that's the, it's the cathedral of television, and people know that, right?

And so when Netflix comes along and all these other channels starting their streamers, what would have been the easiest thing in the world? Call the streamer HBO. People are already subscribed to HBO for 15 bucks a month.

There's a streaming service called HBO. Have HBO make more shows. Keep the brand that people know, the thing people care about. They actually like HBO. It's for adults. It means something to people. It's not TV. It's HBO. Instead, now HBO is a vertical underneath this mystery meat thing, Max, that no one's ever heard. That's not a brand. That was literally what they called it instead of plus. They're like, should we call it HBO plus? No, too small.

We'll call it HBO max. Right. It's extreme HBO. And then like, but then they got rid of the part that people fucking knew and just called it max. That's like if Disney plus just called itself plus. Right. People are there for the Disney. Yeah.

They're not there for the plus. I'm so mouse ears and then the max ads were all trading on these like icons of film like yeah the things that like are completely outside of the model that they're trying to force things in the direction of or call it fucking warner brothers people know warner brothers call it warner max people love the people people been watching warner brothers in this country for a hundred years like just call it warner max people love the people people been watching warner brothers in this country for a hundred years like just call it that but instead you know zazlav treats this company it's like a stock portfolio to him right he's like oh i put this in i put that and i put that and that's my tranche of content that's my big batch of content i don't give a shit what it's called right yeah because his plan is to sell it or whatever he wants to do. He's financialized it.

But that's not how you build a media brand. And, you know, it's a shame. Like, it often feels stupid to say, why don't these companies, like, respect these old-time values of having, like, a good media brand that people actually care about, you know, that means something to people. But, like, I feel stupid saying that because they don't care. They only care about you know that means something to people but like i feel stupid saying that because they don't care they only care about money but like they lose money by doing this you know like people how have we forgotten the lessons of the last hundred years of cap capitalism did these people go to fucking marketing school like it's just basic brand shit sorry i'm mad no but it's true i mean it's it's so reactionary and it's it's just basic brand shit. Sorry about that. No, but it's true. I mean, it's so reactionary.

And it's everything about, like, whatever is good in the short term with no long-term thinking. Like, everybody's getting into streaming. I guess we're getting into streaming, too. Wait, what does it take to do that? And now we see, like, I mean, like, with HBO Max, we saw half of the shit that was, like, interesting to people get absolutely vaporized. Yeah. It's hard. Yeah.

All right. Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back to talk more about this and AI. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and LA-based Shekinah Church, an alleged cult that has impacted members for over two decades.

Jessica and I will delve into the hidden truths between high control groups and interview dancers, church members, and others whose lives and careers have been impacted, just like mine. Through powerful, in-depth interviews with former members and new, chilling firsthand accounts, the series will illuminate untold and extremely necessary perspectives. Forgive Me For I Have Followed will be more than an exploration. It's a vital revelation aimed at ensuring these types of abuses never happen again. Listen to Forgive Me for I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts.

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I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Every great player needs a foil. I ain't really near them. Why is that? I just come here to play basketball every single day and that's what I focus on. From college to the pros, Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Angel Reese is a joy to watch. She is unapologetically black.

I love her. What exactly ignited this fire? Why has it been so good for the game? And can the fanfare surrounding these two supernovas be sustained? This game is only going

to get better because the talent is getting better this new season will cover all things sports and culture listen to naked sports on the black effect podcast network iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast the black effect podcast and we're back and like big like a movie that comes through and is like a visionary work that like that that's not that interesting to wall street and to david zaslav because it's not something that you can replicate and like scale is the word they use like yeah and so they like the the hbo of it is not interesting to him he wants to create something where he can just

churn out shit which is i think why ai is so interesting to him i mean i think you can scale creativity because all you have to do is is cultivate a culture of the most creative people and have them come in the door and pay them appropriately, give them the right guidance they might need. And a great example of that is HBO, right? It was, in its pinnacle period, it was a hit factory, you know?

Or you could look at something like Comedy Central, right? Which in its heyday, really dominated comedy in America and did a good job. Like they would take comics and they would give them an album and then a, you know, a half hour and, or give them a spot on TV,

then a half hour, then an hour, then maybe they get a TV show. You know what I mean? It was like a whole pipeline and it made the comedy better. And they did it by just, you know, saying,

well, we're going to, we're going to go find people. Right. Right. But the reason we stopped having that is because i think partially these guys wanted more control because if they were making original ideas you know if you look at all the biggest so so many of the movies that we're watching now

are reboots of the fertile period where they actually did this right in the 80s and 90s where stuff like indiana jones back to Future, The Matrix, like, you know, these things where these movies would come out of nowhere. They would be completely original in ways that nobody had ever seen. And they would make a huge amount of money. And then they would, you know, inspire other creativity, right? Look at how The Matrix affected so much else, right? So, but they decide they don't want to do that because it gives the creators too much power. Right. Then you, as the executive, you're having to like, give all these other people money and do what they say. Right. Then, then George Lucas, right. Can become the

big, the big executive and you're not right. You're just the guy who pays George Lucas. And so they don't like that. What like is ip the reason they like ip is because they can own it they don't own you know toby mcguire they don't own uh who directed the first spider-man uh what's uh sam ray or sam ray sam ray thank you and he did a great job right sam ray was a wonderful director on those movies they don't own either of those people but they own spider-man and so they can make it that it doesn't matter who's in the suit. Right. And actually, I think that's part of why they ran with the Flash.

They didn't boot Ezra Miller out of there because who gives a shit? People are just going to come see the Flash. Right. And it's wrong. People don't like it as much. People don't enjoy this content. But that's what they're going with because it gives them the control over the business. And you brought up AI and I'm curious, you know, just from the WGA's perspective,

what that intersection is, you know, the existential threat of AI, how much of that is an existential threat? Because I think human taste also counts for a lot, just like you're in your example of Kotaku and I'm like, I'm not really looking for AI generated articles, but can you talk to that sort of what that sort of what, what is sort of seen in the horizon for, you know, what this, how the studios really want to integrate artificial intelligence in terms of like how that could enter the creative process. So I don't give a shit about the technology. You know, I, I think the technology is bullshit. I think it's does some interesting things, you know, and by the way, we're talking about different

types of technology that are being labeled as AI, is a marketing term right like large language models and the ability to create a deep fake of somebody right uh of a dead actor are both be called being called ai being called ai they're not that similar of technologies right but that's what we're calling them so whatever i'll AI. I just want to point that out. For generative AI, yeah. Yeah, sure. But people are saying that, like, oh, generative AI is going to take over and replace

everybody, and I don't buy this. Like, large language models are good at one thing, and that thing does not apply to nearly as much stuff as people think that it does. Right. Creating the illusion that the thing you're talking to or the thing that's generating the text is thinking yeah that's what it does thought into it but it's just recombining shit which is what the studios

identify like that's it that's why it makes sense to me that they were so scared of like taking away ai because they're like this thing works like us it just recombines until uh you get something that kind of looks like the previous thing and is good enough to kind of trick people into buying a ticket. We often joke that it could replace their jobs more easily than ours. But yeah, you know,

the reality is that this is, this technology is nothing like artificial intelligence. Like, because every job in television involves talking to other people, right? Reading the paper, learning about the world around you, responding to recent events, right? Having conversations. None of these are things that so-called AI can do. What a large language model does is you put text in one end and it gives you text that

would plausibly be a response to the first text out the other end. And it does that based on everything else that it's read. Right. That's not intelligence. That's recombining words in an interesting way that in some cases could be useful. Right. But, you know, it's it's the same as you've seen the here's the problem.

These companies might use this technology to try to undermine our wages and working conditions. And that's what we're trying to get them to stop. Right. So I'll give you an example of this. Writing is much more than outputting text. You'd have to be stupid to think it was. Writing means not just coming up with an idea, not just writing it down. It means talking to the network guy on the phone and understanding what his needs are, taking the note in a way that is smarter than what he could even think of because that guy's actually kind of dumb, right? But you're like, okay, the note behind the note

is he actually wants it like this, so that's what I'll do, right? Then you go talk to the actor. Oh, the actor doesn't really like their lines that much because Tom Cruise is a little bit worried. It makes him look kind of wimpy. So we have to adjust that a little bit. We have to go have drinks with him

and then change the script, right? Then it means talking to the director and adjusting it to fit his vision. It means understanding how much a particular scene might cost so that you can say, you know what? They're never going to be able to shoot that. Let me, you know, combine these two scenes and that way it'll be cheaper. And the line producer won't yell at me.

Right. And then the line producer comes and yells at you anyway. You have changed the scene again, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then you go to set and you watch the actor and you say, oh, you know, actually this line, the way you're saying it doesn't mean what you think it means. Like it's going to be confusing. So could you like, let's adjust the line a little bit, you know, et cetera, doing that on set. Then it means going to the edit, going to post production and watching the episode and saying, oh man, this episode is five minutes too long. We have to cut something. What can we cut without losing anything important? Oh, here's a creative fix. Let's have the actor

like say this little line of ADR dialogue and it will bring him back in and that'll solve the problem, right? All of those things are writing. That's what it means to be a writer in Hollywood, okay? It's not outputting text. However, the people who run these companies are stupid and ignorant enough to think that all writing is is outputting text because they never work with us or talk to us. Right. Ted Sarandos has not spoken with a writer in 10 years. Right. So they are likely to be sold a bill of goods by some tech company, some tech company coming

to them and saying, hey, guess what? We made a super AI. You just input all your old scripts and we'll output new movies for you. And then you won't need writers anymore. And so what they'll do is they'll say, okay, here's the really great script that the AI wrote. We just need somebody to punch it up, take our notes, go talk to the actor, go to set, go to post. Oh, but none of that's writing. That's just producing. So you're not going to get paid as a writer. You're not a writer. You're a producer.

Like, no, the human who does all that is still doing all of the writing. They're just going to take some piece of shit and make it work. But they may not be paid as a writer. And that is what we are fighting to prevent. Now that's in writing. Actors have different issues

where they're worried about their likenesses. And that's an immediate threat that could happen to them. The AMPTP literally proposed that for background actors, these are the people who are in the background of scenes, and it's not a highly paid job, but it is a professional job. The people who do it are good at it, and it's something you should be able to earn a living at because it takes a full day, you know, and people do it, you know, every day of the week. It's something that they need to make to make movies and TV. So the AMPTP who are negotiating against literally proposed that background actors would be paid one day's wages. They would be scanned in to an AI on their first day. And then the company would then own that likeness in perpetuity and could do whatever they wanted to with it. Now, I want to be really clear. This is not some fancy new technology.

This is something they could have done two years ago. Right. It's just like digital scanning, like any actor who's worked in a movie on VFX gets digitally scanned. The difference is they want to steal our likenesses. Right. And own them in perpetuity. It's the business practice that's the problem. And that incensed the SAG-AFTRA negotiating committee, and that's why they're on strike. Yeah. It makes sense. My grandparents, they made a living off of background acting in the 90s after they retired. Because my uncle was in the industry, and he's like, man, they need to get out of the house. They need something to do. And I talk talk about on the show all the time, they were like playing like the old black couple and like so many movies and 90s things like Jerry Maguire, Deep Impact and things like that. And I saw firsthand for them like that. It gave them all kinds of benefits. And they're not even the people that are like the stars. You know what I mean? That there's still a way to even have a living from just being, you know, like being available and wanting to participate in these productions. So, yeah, to hear then that they just want to reduce human beings to basically like reusable facial fonts that they can just replicate willy nilly like is.

Yeah, it's it's definitely disconcerting. There's similar things even happening with podcasting, too, where you hear so much, too, about being like creating like vocal models to be able to like transpose things into all kinds of different languages or things like that. And then you're like, oh, that's you begin to see the stickiness there. Yeah. And you can do that now with like one minute's worth of talking. And I think we have given them millions of minutes talking. So we're pretty fucked. There better be a case the language that model better be fucking good based on the amount of material the idea but just the fundamental idea that people would listen or watch ai generated content is moronic

but it will like that's the thing with the the media like the online media world like it will like they don't give a shit the people who are making it like there's this tweet that i screen capped from uh ashley clark at underscore ash underscore clark that's just a screen cap of this like outbrain article and it says it's a picture of vince vaughn and it says it's no big secret why van vaught isn't around anymore sponsored by screen insiders van vaught but it's it's just the ai misfiring but it's enough to like you know that that used to like it's just been a slow degradation as they fucked the people out of creating that sort of content that had any talent or you know interest in making it good and that i think like the union this strike is what is standing between us and just a world of fucking mediocrity

like just the studios getting their way like so just from the consumer's perspective like even if you don't understand that like that you know labor is incredibly important and increasingly so going forward like just from what you're going to be seeing like the movies and tv shows you're going to be streaming like this is what is standing between you and a future of like turning on netflix and seeing like some shit like van bot, like van bot in love is blonde. The dating reality show. Like, huh?

Like these scripts. They make sense. Like that's what the AI did. They know better than us. Yeah. We're not really good with the written word. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's, and by the way, it's like, it's getting better so fast. Soon. It's going to be good. I'll believe it when I fucking see it. Right.

Like they're trying to give you van Vought right now. Yeah. You know, uh, give me a, give me a, like, miss me with,

uh, with, uh, like, Oh, you, you, we have to bow down before AI because I'm pretty sure it's going to be

great later. Like, fuck off. Let's preemptively fail, like full before it. Huh? Yeah. To your point.

I think we've seen like the degradation happening as it's gone more like i do think there's a huge overlap with what these chat gpt like ai like quote-unquote ais are doing and what like studio executives do with the combination and recombination of shit and it's like for the past we we have seen things trend toward mediocrity in the world of movies and you're just seeing like you know i i feel like eventually they could get to a world where an ai chat gpt variety could shit out something similar to like jurassic world or star trek the star trek that was basically like mapping the plot of star wars onto star trek characters or you Trek, the Star Trek that was basically like mapping the plot of Star Wars onto Star Trek characters or,

you know, the, the Lion King live action. And like, these are movies that make money and fool you enough to buy the ticket. But then like, it just doesn't have a cultural imprint. It's like a copy of a copy that just sort of tails off.

And I mean, the fact that they even call those lion king movies live action right they're not live action yeah they're computer animated yeah you think they got a real lion to talk it's an animated movie yeah it's animated just like the last one what the fuck are they right and yes it's chum right it's like hey we can pay like a bunch of overworked vfx people nothing to turn this shit out rather than make a real movie yeah but they'll never come up with jurassic park or you know the original star trek or the original star wars and so this will be what we will have. We'll just have pastiche. We'll have just, you know,

a flat, flattened out version of mediocrity. And like, we will have lost one of the great things that America ever created. Yeah, and look, that's why I believe the entertainment industry is one of the great things America has ever created. It's popular art. A lot of it is dreck, but you know, know you watch the reason people love it is they watch it

and they go that's fucking art it's art that speaks to me you know what and and it's it's great art and uh some of it you know films are film is is the one of the great american art forms that we invented here it's like right fucking next to jazz right in terms of great american art forms that were invented in america right and the the reason we're on strike is not to save the art form it's not to save movies we're on strike to save our careers and uh it's an economic struggle but it's it's something we all give a shit about and it's it's something that i i hope we can help reverse yeah how do you just like in your long view right i mean like mean, like we talked about up top that, you know, there's the more cynical strategy seem to be some studio executives are

like, well, let's just see if we can wait them out until they're, they lose their housing. Yeah. But you know, what's your long view of how, obviously I see how committed the writers are and how actors are to making, like ensuring that things are better, not just for themselves, but for future people that take this path. But I mean, how are better, not just for themselves, but for future people that take this path. But I mean, how are you looking at it? And, and obviously, I see how energized you are. So I know that like you, there's optimism. But what is it like from that end to hear the fucking people that you're trying to negotiate? And here's such like cynical bullshit like that, that they're like, well, we have more money, honestly, in the end, and we'll just drive

them out of dollars, maybe as a negotiating tax. Yeah, I mean, it's – all we can do at this point is laugh. I mean, in Deadline, the people for the companies literally said they were going to starve us out until we lose our homes. Right. And it was the dumbest thing to say because it was like an old playbook where they used to try to, like, slip stuff into the trades to scare us. Right. like slip stuff into the trades to scare us you know that's that's was their playbook was uh you know we'll we'll try to convince the writers to fold because we're gonna last longer than them was tough talk they didn't realize that they said it on the internet and that like the whole world

could see it and it would result in an outpouring of support because they literally they're they're saying they're gonna put their make they're gonna make their writers homeless like what the fuck right like it's reprehensible it's unethical it's but no one could hear this and be on the side of the person who said that right like what the fuck are they talking about and it's it's evil to say that it's on the face of it evil and it's a it's against every american value and so you know it's it's ludicrous that they said this multiple people from multiple streamers and studios said this to a reporter multiple times uh that's right like he go read the fucking article he sourced it deadlines are rad but they do their reporting you know yeah so you know all we can really do is laugh i mean and also by the way show that they were panicking

yeah yeah and i think it's kind of everywhere right now. I mean, like this whole moment, it's not just you. It's UPS. It's Waffle House. It's Starbucks. It's Amazon. We're really like at this, this real inflection point where like the greed and disconnect of like C-suites to like actual how like people do a job like is now really bubbling up to the surface.

And now like they're kind of confused, like, wait, wait. Oh, it's it's that bad. And I hope that this, you know, that, you know, all of you are successful like in this battle, because I think it's it's really important. And I have a feeling that it'll affect a lot of other things happening in the country, too. Look, it's the same. It's the same battle that everyone in America is facing.

Yeah, right. What's happened to us is over the last 20 years, the companies have figured out how to take the money from our pockets that came from our labor and keep it for themselves. That's it. So why is it that in America right now we have a record low unemployment rate and people can't afford homes? They can't afford school for their kids. They can't afford medical care. Why is that? It's because the same thing has happened to everybody. This is what capitalism has done to us all. And so we're fighting back against it. And we're going to win and we're going to save our industry and we're going to show everyone that this is how you can do it. You can do it with a union. And it's hard to form a union. We're lucky because we already have strong unions, as we have for 90 years. But why do we have them? Because workers started them. And the conditions in which they started, the conditions in which the Writers Guild was founded 90 years ago, were far more inimical than the conditions are today. You know, we had people who, writers who never talked to each other, working for these giant companies

that, you know, hired and fired them constantly. They had no credit. Nobody thought they mattered at all. And they just talked to each other and built a community and started a union. It took them 10 years to get the union recognized. It took years past that to get a contract. But because they put in that time and effort for years when nobody thought it was possible, all their friends said, you're stupid. They said, is this going to work? I don't feel right. I don't know. I'm kind of worried. You know, like all that shit happened to them. Just like it would happen to you if you started a union in your workplace.

Because they did it. I have a health and pension plan. Yeah. And one of the best in the country that I'm very proud to have. Although I'm going to lose it in a couple of months because I haven't worked in a little while. So hopefully when the strike is over, I'll get a job so I can keep getting that reimbursement for my therapist. There you go. Well, Adam, thank you so much for taking the time during what I'm assuming is a crazy, busy period. We really appreciate you talking to us and fighting the good fight, man.

Keep doing it. Guys, it's so wonderful to be here, and thanks for your support. Oh, let me plug, by the way. Two things. First of all, I am not working for television and film your support. And let me plug, by the way. Yeah. Two things. First of all, I am not working for television and film right now. I got to make a living somehow. I'm on tour as a standup comic. So if you live in Buffalo, Providence, Rhode Island, St. Louis, or oh, God, what's the

last one? Baltimore. Please go to Adam Conover dot net. You can find tickets and tour dates there. I've got a brand new hour stand up. If you want to support the strike, you can donate to and tour dates there. Got a brand new hour of stand-up. If you want to support The Strike, you can donate to the Entertainment Community Fund. This is a fund that gives money to film, television workers,

writers, actors, crew members, ununionized people who are PAs, people like that, who are not able to pay their rent or their medical costs, whether because of The Strike or for some other reason. So if you go to entertainmentcommunity.org and click Donate to Film and TV Workers, you can directly support not just the strike, but all film and TV workers.

And donating money to that does help us stay on the picket line longer. So we really appreciate you. Amazing. Well, thanks so much, man. Awesome. Thank you, guys. All right.

That was our conversation with Adam Conover. Yeah. He was really conversation with Adam Conover. Yeah. He was really going hard on David Zaslav. I know. I didn't like that part. We were kind of cowards. Low-key, we were kind of cowards for not keeping up with David Zaslav. We should have pushed back on the Zaslav stuff. That wasn't very nice. Yeah. Zaz-E-D. Sorry about that. I had all these questions about if he feels guilty because the billionaire guy who owns cartier like talked about how he's losing scared he's scared man like how think about his sleep but yeah yeah it's so

again it's we're this is fucking everywhere i think that's what's really wild is that like it's human beings are just reaching that natural limit where you can only toil for so long and not get what is owed to you to to just live to be able to put a roof over your head eat support a family all that and yeah i mean i think right now it's a it's it's a huge a lot of eyes on them because again these are probably the most visible union members yeah on the planet yeah hey man like i said it's no big secret why van bot isn't around anymore oh my god that's what we're facing that is what we're facing van wait till people start listening to the dolly zet get that's uh like i kept thinking about when we were talking i kept thinking about the 60 minutes thing

where scott pelly was like and the chat gpt finished ernest hemingway's story the like six words uh baby shoes for sale never worn and oh right added like a parent a mother and a father character and a third character was like so it like ruined the fucking thing that you're talking about but it just like churned out more and you were impressed by that yeah it added on to it created a whole baby shoes for sale universe shared cinematic universe anyways uh good conversation i feel like i know more about ai i feel like i know more about this moment in the labor struggle yeah just yeah one dimension of a very large one uh yeah across the fucking world basically uh and yeah make sure you guys check uh we will have in the footnotes uh you know adam's uh tour dates and stuff like that

so be sure to catch him on the road because he's it's actually he's actually really funny turns out too he's actually really funny hot damn all right miles where can people find you uh at miles of gray wherever they got at symbols i'm there and then also thank you to everybody who's started listening and subscribing to the good thief the new podcast please continue to subscribe and listen and review and all that episode two comes out tomorrow wednesday uh where we go even deeper into the mystery that is Vasily Spalio Kostas. And also, check out Mad Boosties. Worth the price of admission.

Dude, it's so good. I can't. I'm actually like, I know I recorded it. I was like hosting and stuff like that. But hearing it all come together, I'm so blown away what they did. The Kaleidoscope. Shout out, man. Yeah.

Shout out. Oz and everybody over there. Yeah. Yeah. It moves like a movie, did. The Kaleidoscope. Shout out, man. Yeah, shout out. Oz and everybody over there. Yeah, yeah. It moves like a movie, baby. So easy to listen to. It's like a good gateway pod if you want people to dip their toe. So anyway, I'm done tooting my horn. Dip that toe.

You can find me on Twitter at Jack underscore O'Brien. That's going to do it for us today. Yeah. The Daily Zeitgeist is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows Alright, that's going to do it for us this morning Back this afternoon to tell you what's trending

We will talk to you all then Bye I'm Jess Casavetto Executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil The 7M TikTok cult And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me for I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and Shekinah Church. Listen to Forgive

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