The Daily Zeitgeist - Icon #19 - Frida Kahlo: Proto-Influencer?

Episode Date: April 20, 2026

In this episode, Jack and Miles are joined by actor/writer/comedian Mo Fry Pasic to talk about, arguably, the most iconic artist of the 20th century: Frida Kahlo! They'll explore her life as art, her many relationshIps, her based politics and much more!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Heidgeist! Hello. I wish we would call the iconograph. My name's Jack O'Brien. I'm joined, as always, by my co-host, Mr. Miles Gray. Yes. Yes. Time to get into some more icons.

It's time for me to expand my knowledge when only a 2002 Salma Hayek movie, was filling in the gaps for me. Oh, you saw that. You got everything you need to know, man. Yeah, the thing is, I saw it when it came out 24 years ago. Life is just a love story, essentially, with her very famous artist husband. And that's, I think we're actually good here. Just a dude, right?

I don't think we need to keep going. Yeah, it's kind of, yeah. Her story is his story in many ways. That's what I got. Anyway, it's a fine movie. Yeah, we'll talk about it. No, I mean, I just remember at the time, though, too, just because, you know, my artist, household with my dad. He was like, this is

fucking wrong. Yeah. It's like, oh, I don't know, dad. Everybody speaks in accented English. That's so interesting. No, they speak Spanish in Mexico. No, they speak like this. That's how they speak. In an American film about it. Yeah, Alfred Molina, our greatest Mexican artist. Miles, in our third seat, a very funny comedian, actor, writer,

received some nice reviews in regional public. locations like the New Yorker who called their acting virtuosic the New York Times called them relentless. They're the host of the podcast, worst than you, which is about the creative process. That's so going to be very valuable

to have them on this episode. Please welcome to the show. Mo fry passie! Freita. Freed, freedom. What's up? I'm excited. I'm excited to have you.

You said you've been doing some free to research on free to reach. Free to reach. So you know the premise. We're going icons. It's not it's not the news one. It's the icon one. If you thought it was the news one, pull over right now and turn this off. Yeah.

You're going to fucking lose your mind. But first thing I want to just posit right now. We're talking about Frida Kahlo, who I am going to posit is the most iconic artist of the 20th century. and maybe based on current iconography, the most iconic artist of all time, that we currently have. I can't think of another artist who you could dress up as for Halloween

and have as many people know who you are. I think Van Gogh is the closest. Van Gogh, you could probably get there. You do a ear bandage and an orange beard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's always like the lazy version of a Van Gogh. And I'm even like, do you have a toothache? But with Frida, you're like,

There's no mistake. There's no mistake. Yeah. Well, but it's interesting, though, because you're saying about visually her, who she is, versus maybe you could see if Rita, like, I think we can already dissect whether someone's paintings and their work is the thing that we know them for or their actual self as the iconic image. Yeah. Yeah. She's got both.

Yeah. You know? There's so many self portraits, right? Yeah. So many self portraits. And, you know, we talk on here just at a very, dumb level about the iconography and how it's helpful to have like a little bit of business. Like for Sherlock Holmes, he's got a unique hat and a pipe. She's got very, you know,

specific features and they are like her eyebrows and her facial hair are things that she actually over exaggerated in her painting. Like when you look at photos of her, you realize she's actually really going in hard on the eyebrows and the mom. mustache. So I don't know if she's engaging in a conscious iconography, but it certainly worked out that way where she's immediately someone that you're like, yeah, there goes Frida Kahlo. And like she was like at the time, the contemporary coverage media, she was sometimes overshadowed by her husband, the mainstream media thought of her as like a very famous artist's wife who also happens to paint. There's this like New York Times article where they're like peppy little

Frida Kahlo who works alongside her husband. But like as her paintings became famous, like if you've seen her paintings, you've seen her essentially. She's like on the cover of Vogue like during her lifetime like in Paris. And she perhaps the best thing you could say about her is that she was the first influencer. No, that's not the best. you could say about her. I do feel like she was just way ahead of her time in like putting herself at the center of her artwork. It's not, again, you know, she's doing it for certain reasons that we're going to get into because

of like the, you know, situation that she was in. But she really, like we talked last week's icon was, or two weeks ago was Lisa Frank, who it was interesting to find out like, you know, she made. these like crazy purple and pink trapper keeper art and also like wore those colors and had like a pastel house and stuff. Freedah's life is like that times a thousand. Like her life matches her artwork to the point that it almost feels like her art bleeds out of her paintings. Her life is her artwork. Like there's a famous exhibit in Brooklyn that put her paintings alongside her outfits under the premise and like her jewelry under the premise that it's like all part of this continuous

whole she she is she does not just do art she is art like her life is art such is her drip you know such is yeah okay i mean i think the the influencer thing is interesting because i knew about the stuff about uh you know like her depictions of herself were like very self-critical and we're sort of like these heightened versions of how she was viewing herself, how she felt she was being viewed. So that does feel sort of contemporary in this era we are with like people filming themselves or posting images of themselves and like what that, you know, outward images that people think that they're taking in. So it's just kind of an interesting thing that I hadn't quite thought about in terms of.

I'm actually, I'm excited you say that because my first thought, especially with like all the drama going on currently with like Taylor Frankie Paul and the Summerhouse, all these reality. these shows dramas. And I was thinking about Frida, because one of the most miraculous things about her is that it's very clear there was so many mental issues. There was a warranted because there were so many physical issues. Like there were so many things, but she, instead of being lauded for having pain, she has to channel it and put it into something. And she has to, that those parts of herself that are self-critical. It's like, to me, that's like her processing the aspect that she's feeling.

Like I'm feeling this way because it's, um, her art is almost always like the self-portrait part isn't really, because she even said herself, they were like, why are you so self-possessed? Like an obsessed and was the other word they used, which she thought was crazy.

But she was like, I know me best. Like what do you tell? It's the vehicle from which I'm talking. So I do think it is related in that influencer way that she is authentically experiencing. It's why we're attracted to these big people, like these big emotional stars that do crazy things, but

she had to channel it into something. And so she didn't. She transmuted those emotions. Yeah. And then her life is also a great I would also, if I was Frida Kahlo, I would also paint myself because I'm the most interesting

thing in existence at that time. Like just her, she's like everything about her. Like she's not just a, when you see her like in photographs she is a work of visual art like her outfits her like everything she's wearing the way she looks the way she

is serving content at all times like in the most I want you to say that against we can clip it and like huge dick energy to like just all around there's this painting of her where she's like head cut her hair and as in drag and everyone's like this is her

working through the grief of her divorce and I'm like she looks so badass. It wasn't even grief. Did you know how vindictive that painting was? Diego was obsessed with her hair. With her hair. Yeah. Also, she looks fucking cool as hell.

She looks amazing. Yeah. She looks sick. Like, everyone's like, she's doing this as protest. And it's like, yeah, but also she looks fucking sweet. She looks awesome. Pop stars are going to be jocking this style in about 80 years. Yeah. Yeah.

And like truly, like, everything about her is just feels 80 to 100 years. ahead of her time. I guess we're not even a hundred years ahead of her time yet, but I feel like it's not her vibe, her style is not going anywhere, but just her life. She's not just an amazing work of visual art. She is a novel. Like she'd be friends and has an affair with Trotsky, with Georgia O'Keefe.

She's like, her life is like a movie for real dog. And like the art direction and the scripting of that movie is meticulous and beautiful. and like glows with the firmament of the gods in every frame. Well, beautifully said. They, yeah. And they just like, I don't know, people are like, why did you paint yourself?

It's like, what the fuck else am I going to paint? Look at me. Look at me. What would you paint? Anyways, it's an amazing life that we'll get into. But anything else, Mo, because I know that you did some research of your own, which I really appreciate. Of course. Well, what I like is also reading between the lines of certain.

and reading proto influencer. Yeah. Brian the editor says she's giving Proto influencer. Well, I like reading between the lines of a lot of the facts, right? Because it's what we were saying before where they'd be like, and, you know, her partner didn't care. She slept with women.

It's like, and in that you can feel some of the violence and the homophobia and the all the like weight of expression mixed with, you know, maybe she was sleeping with men because she didn't want to, but she hated Diego. Like, you know, maybe. There's all these different layers. Yes. to read through. And I just loved, because I myself have hypermobility and autoimmune issues.

And so a lot of my fashion comes from having to research brands of compression socks that have cool design. Like, or having to find certain like braces because she used like horsetree and like all of the decoration because she was something she couldn't hide. It was a visible disability. Yes. And so I just adore the way a lot of people, I adore the way you're positing it. because a lot of people are like, girlie, why did you do that? And she's like, hey, there's no way, there's nothing else to do. I can't hide.

I can't, it's not a choice. And so I love how she presents her identity is not like, I thought this was an amazing color from my skin. And I just thought, it's like, no, all of this was like. In this way, she is not a proto-influencer. Yeah. She's leaning. She's in immense pain. She has disabilities that would at the time be considered,

you know, less than ideal. And she is working with them and like using every part of that to create this artwork that is her life at all times in a way that's like really cool. And yes, I mean, she is a queer icon, but also like an icon for people with disabilities too, like in so many ways. And just that part too of like where an influencer may be like, well, I'm going to try and present myself in a way that conforms to what I think people. people are out there wanting. She's making art, like, in its truest sense of, like, it's an embracing of who you are in an unflinching way and presenting that as a way to express yourself. And people go, whoa, that's, to some people, they go, whoa, how'd you do that?

Not realizing, like, that's the magic of, like, self-expression is, like, I'm not making, I'm not making some shit for you or what I think, I'm not considering the fucking audience. I am a human being who goes, ah, like, let me get this shit out of me and it's manifesting in my work. And that's what you're responding to. But a lot of people, they go, okay, so Frida, let me clock what she was, okay, so she had this or outfits

or like this, no, no, no, no, no. That's, you've already lost the analysis here when you think that it was for anything outside of that. It's a complete system. It's not individual acts completely. Yes, exactly. She's, all right, so just getting into her life, she's born in 1907, later claims to have been born in 1910.

not because of the thing where people in Hollywood claim to be younger, but because that's when the Mexican Revolution started and she wanted to have the same birthday as the Mexican Revolution. She changed it by one day as well. It was the sixth, the seventh. Yes. But this is something like patronizing historians a lot of the time question or like the way they describe it, they're like,

well, she, you know, her husband was a leftist. And, you know, is she just going along with these men? But like there's so many parts of her like her politics are fucking great. Like she has she's a true leftist who's down to fuck shit up like for the cause from day one. Her father is a German descendant and he immigrated to Mexico where he met and married her mother, Matilde. Her mother is half Mexican, Indian and half Spanish. So just on the German immigration, I thought this was interesting. like this is why there's a ton of German immigration to Mexico at this time and this is why

Norteno music has accordions and like um papa like polka rhythms is because there's like this massive wave of I randomly like I didn't realize this at all and I went to a wedding in San Antonio a couple years ago and like the party one of the nights was at this like German beer garden with like a big polka and mariachi band like playing together in San Antonio and they apparently there's a a big German influence from like North Mexico up through Texas. On her mom's side, her dad is like a big influence. He's, you know, tries to get her to like after she has polio and one of her legs is like shrunken and stuff.

He's like, you've got to play sports and wrestle and like do all these things, which are very uncommon at the time. Her mom is more withholding, but she gets a lot of like, there are a lot of artistic influences from her mom's heritage. Her wardrobe, which is considered a work of art in its own right, draws heavily on inspiration from her mother's native Mexican heritage, as does her artwork. And then she also pulls a lot of stuff.

Her mom's like a devout Catholic. And a lot of her paintings look like secular saint, like, you know the paintings of saints that you'll see in like Catholic churches? I don't know how experienced you are. like a lot of me grew up Catholic yeah yeah yeah like that that I didn't really clock it at first but the more you see her paintings the more it's like oh she's like doing secular saint paintings like it's like in a corner there's st paul and in a corner yeah it's like it's very like pictured in that way yeah yeah um but she's she's always fascinated with pre-columbian

artwork like you know from her mother's uh I forget which tribe she was from or which but she's always into these like native and indigenous art. And there's just, it's one of those things that like you see over and over again where pre-Columbian art, fashion, philosophy, design are these major influences on American art and thinking and culture in general. And everyone just like kind of writes them out.

Like that, it just wasn't a thing. And it's still not a thing you see a lot of in the coverage of Frida Kahlo and like the mainstream coverage, but it's definitely a huge influence that we talked about it a lot in the book, The Dawn of Everything, where how like these philosophers, these like Native American and indigenous philosophers give America a lot of the ideas

that end up getting attributed to the founding fathers and stuff like that. I think she does the same thing almost internally is that she ended up changing the spelling of her name from the German, Germanic, Rita, to just the eye, which is more Mexican. And I think they said she helped her dad because he had epilepsy in the dark room. And so it's just interesting thinking of on the micro and the macro of Mexican identity of wanting to connect with her mom more and identify with her mom more and then completely making sure others knew, because also

visibly not German. So connecting so beautifully with Mexican culture as an attempt to be seen is so magnetic and beautiful. Yeah, absolutely. So she contracted polio at the age of six and has to be bedridden for nine months and that caused her right leg and foot to grow much thinner than her left. And around this time,

she experienced intensely an imaginary friendship, which later inspired her iconic double self-portrait, the two Frida's, which is one of her most famous paintings. It's the one where like the hearts are exposed, but there's like two of her sitting next to each other. they're holding hands. But just generally loneliness is a major theme of her work.

One of the reasons she gave for painting so many self-portraits is that she was so frequently alone. And that's because of like polio and then what happens next with this bus accident. What happens next is so tough. Yeah. It's foreboding. I know. But her,

yeah, again, her life is like, I don't know. I had an imaginary friend that was, but like I don't I didn't hold on to it you know like it's like she just uses everything her loneliness her illness her weakness rather than like overcompensating it for it in like some ugly way she responds to the leg by starting to wear these giant skirts that become like works of art in their own right um her mother's native mexican heritage she uses her mother's catholic religion

she uses, she doesn't even like waste her imaginary friends. You know, she's like, okay, well, that she, everything is like part of her artwork. Every, and her art is like every part of her. It's all like coming out in a way that's, yeah, inspiring. And it's like, oh, that is what being a true artist is, is all about. I also think about the amount of artists specifically of that era. Like I think about Nikola Tesla and being bedridden for up to three years. as a child.

Yeah. And the effect it has on great minds and being forced to be with oneself for so long. Yeah. That's why we keep my kids separated in a closet. Yeah. Contraption. They get fed under the door. You're going to be an artist, son.

All right. Did you figure out what E equals MC what now? Yeah. No. All right. MC light. MCE equals MC light. E40 equals MC light.

It also reminded me there's a just connecting dots between icons Elvis had a really weird relationship with his twin brother who was still born and it's like this thing that you almost like kind of go past because it seems so weird you're like I don't know I don't want to hear about that

but like he really like believed throughout his life that he was like powered by the ghost of this like dead twin in his mother's uterus and like felt like he was like double eyes. Yeah, yeah. Like he felt like he had these two things, like these two versions of himself.

And it seemed like free to kind of have that too with her imaginary friends. So wait, was her imaginary friend her? Yes, yeah, yeah. Yeah. She, there's like, there's this description where she talks about how she would like have these really vivid imaginings where she would, I crossed the whole plane that I saw in front of me until I arrived at a dairy and enter through the letter O at the pinzon dairy, go down into the interior of the earth where my imaginary friend was always waiting for me. I do not remember her image or her color, but I do

know that she was gay. She laughed a lot without sounds. She was agile and danced as if she weighed nothing at all. I followed her in all her movements. While she danced, I told her my secret problems. And it's just, yeah. Oh my God. That's beautiful. I was like, man, I was like, Jack, what the fuck did you? I didn't even have an imaginary friend. That's not an imaginary friend. That's a shamanistic journey. I know.

That's her, like, her projection of her true self or the person that she wants to be to confide in. I'm like, you knew all that? I was out here pissing my pants because for no reason. I only know I had an imaginary friend because my aunt made a little book about it. I have like the world's greatest aunt, you guys. Aunt Michelle. She made like a little children's book out of my imaginary friend Bill who apparently had like a giant blonde mustache and I would come back and tell her all this shit that I would get up to. What was Bill's disposition? Yeah. I don't even, I don't really remember. I just remember

we would, yeah, he just had a cool long mustache that like went down to the floor. So funny, there's just a guy in town with that exact description. Hey brother. My aunt's like, oh, no. Oh, my God. I'm Jonathan. I got a long blonde mustache. So up next, the big event in her childhood or like I think she's 18 when it happens is this bus accident where it happened in 1925. She got on a bus, which were new in Mexico City with her boyfriend, Alejandro Gomez Arias.

they were like part of this little socialist student group that would like go around fucking shit up and they once wrote a donkey through the halls of the school and like set off firecrackers during like people's speeches. They like blew out windows and stuff. They sound like a lot of fun. But this bus accident is crazy. Like it gets teaboned by an electric street car, which had been around for a while. The electric street car was empty, but the bus was packed because. They were new and people were like, we get to ride on a bus. And like the description of it is like it like bends into a sea shape. Like it's almost like elastic the bus and then it like bursts into a thousand pieces. Like her boyfriend's account of the accident is really weird. He said something strange had happened. So after it like burst into a thousand pieces like a bunch of people on the bus die immediately. he finds her. He said something strange had happened. Frida was totally nude. The collision had unfastened her clothes. Someone in the bust, probably a house painter, had been carrying a packet of powdered gold. This package broke and the gold fell all over the bleeding body of Frida. When people saw her, they cried by Lirina. With the gold on her red bloody body, they thought she was a dancer. Again, there's almost this supernatural way in which everything about her,

becomes like this living, breathing work of art. But yeah, so she fractured her pelvic bone. The rail punctured her abdomen and uterus, broke her spine in three places, her leg in 11 places, dislocated her shoulder, broke her collarbone. Doctors later discovered that three additional vertebrae had been broken as well.

And this goes on to define, like she's suffering from chronic pain for the rest of her life. more than 30 surgeries over the course of her life trying to fix what was going on with her trying to 1925 surgeries miles

yeah yeah there was you've been to 30 1930s there was one of her surgeries where they broke a piece of bone off her pelvis and like grafted it onto her spine to try to like fix her spine

a vertebrae or something yeah yeah And it like, old boy with a hammer and a chisel in there. It makes you want to grow up. Yes, exactly. That's what there's a very famous painting of her where like her spinal column is depicted as as a shattered like crumbling column. An ionic column, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Also, I have some pictures because I, I process pretty slow.

So when I'm at museums, I take pictures of like the descriptions or like certain photos that I don't think I could find online. And I couldn't find this one online, but I zoomed in on it. It's her pink. how she was in the bed. She has like a head wrap. Can you tell from the question? She was like a head wrap and everything. And like her chin is being held up for the painting.

Like this is, and she was like this for a year in bed. Yes. That's not just bedridden. That's like you can't lift your head. On her back. Can't lift her neck. So at the time she is like,

I'm probably going to be a doctor because she's just like, she's really smart. Like it's worth keeping a mind at this point. Like she's, you know, a genius. And so, like, when the accident happens, she was, like, in the best school in the country, which had just, like, started admitting girls recently. And rather than, like, do the girl school, they had set up, they had a, they had, like,

this setup where, like, girls are separated on a different floor. Like, and there were only, like, 30 girls out of, like, 2,000 students. She immediately just, like, starts hanging out with, like, the smartest people, these, like, rebellious people who, you know, blow shit up at the school, gets into all sorts of trouble. But she's like such a good student. They're like, okay, you are incorrigible. You're going to be a doctor.

She's like, fucking fine. I'll be a doctor. And then she's injured. She can't like go to school to be a doctor. And so she's like, all right, I guess I'll be the best painter of my generation. And so she like spends her recovery time painting. And once she's like well enough and gets out of bed,

like goes and finds the most famous. painter in Mexico and is like, hey, is this worth of shit? Because if not, I'm like, I'm going to do something else. And he's like, actually, yeah, it's really good. And she's like, I'm not going to fuck you just so you know. He's like, okay, I still think it's good. But like, she's just, she was going to be amazing at whatever she did, essentially. And, but yeah, like, the fact that She takes this accident that for other people is just like you are on your back and immobile. And in that time becomes one of the great painters of all time is fucking crazy. That's what I mean, though.

It's like it's doing something with the pain. I feel like our icons today, what we're talking about, we're trying to figure out how to be it instead of doing something with the pain. And that's why people stand apart very easily because, and work that, is really channeled feeling stands apart very easily and still now, even in the saturated field, because it's like being on your back and still having to express something and not immediately expelling the emotion or distracting yourself from it.

Like just, oh my God. Yeah. I did want to just stop here because I've been thinking ever since there was a revelation of like Kanye having the brain injury. from his accident and like him saying that that was like part of the explanation for all of those like anti-Semitic statements

and stuff like that. I have been thinking about like the role of like accidents and like injuries in people's lives. I was just curious like are there, like it made me think of Kanye like because his career kind of started with this horrible car accident. Yeah.

50 cent like obviously got shot a number of times and that launched his career. But I'm trying to think, like, are there other artists that come to mind, Mo,

like specifically as somebody who has a podcast about the creative process? Like, does anything, are there other people like this who like created themselves out of the wreckage of something like this?

Completely. I also think it's its own machine because of the, I think about it very simply, like, if you look, my favorite, one of my favorite things

at the museum was a shoe she made. And you can tell that it has to be custom because of polio made a, she has to have a certain custom size. Yeah, her shoes are different heights. Yeah. And you have to then seek out unique things that aren't a measure of capitalism and there's not anything in the world for you. So someone who is disabled mentally, physically by any means or even marginalized are in, like in some way not provided for, then they do have to seek it out. in that seeking, you get to be very specific because you have, I mean, you just have to. And so I feel like injury and trauma of any sort go hand in hand because you can't avoid what you have to express because, you know, and I think that is the link with these major

injuries and expression. Yeah. What do you guys think. Yeah. I think that's right. I think it's just, I mean, it's definitely one way that you can go. right? Like another way would be just to be like, well, fuck. Like I'm screwed here, you know, but it's definitely like the way that somebody with this spirit, uh, encounters something like

that, you know? Okay. Now I have another question, well. So to the Kanye, because it's, I, it makes me sick. I think he was one of the greatest artists. Uh, it, the fact that he is so, causes so much harm and violence is so upsetting. But you also think, I also like to talk people without judgment. Like, Van Gogh was manipulating and torturing his friends by sending his fucking cut off ear. And we know it's a mental illness, right? But Frida, like, had a lot of mental illness. And I know it's so vague and they say pulmonary embolism, but she wrote in her journal that she was leaving this world.

I think it was killing herself. And so you have to wonder where we teeter with channeling the expression of the pain and finding wellness throughout and not causing harm on that journey. I feel like that's confusing a lot of times. For sure. And I think that's what's even harder with Anya and his example too, because it's like the times it's come up has been to sort of like curry sympathy. Exactly.

Or to excuse it. And that's when it gets a little bit like, well, I totally, I know you're in this car accident. I don't doubt that it's left you scarred in some way. But the way you're using it doesn't feel like in its truest sense, even like with Frida found a way to be a way to be. like, well, no, like the only way for me to really, and I guess this is this is the personality type. I think she only knew like some form of comfort, solace, salvation in embracing what she could not change and making that the thing that powered her. And Kanye, it's kind of just, there's parts of it

that don't feel as sincere in terms of like with the art form. But again, there are also different eras, you know, there's gender. I don't know, there's so many other things that come into place. with that, but I also think just with, I don't know. When I look at that, I'm like, yeah, he was not helping anyone except for himself on the way there. But I don't know. He's trying his best to try and crawl back in, although I don't think a lot of people are having it right now. Yeah.

All right. I don't want to spend too much time talking about Kanye. But, all right, we're going to go through his albums real quick. And just now. All right. So here we come to one of the great bag fumbles in the history of the world. This guy, Alejandro Gomez, Arias, who was. was her boyfriend who she was like, God, like, I love you.

Would you come visit me? She paints her first self-portrait and like sends it to him. And he's just like, uh, I'm out. Actually, he like kind of ghosts her after the accident, possibly because he found out she had had an affair with a printer she apprenticed for. Hey, yeah, though. Even so. I mean, come on, man.

And he's just like, yeah, I got yourself portrait. Uh, I'm actually going to Europe to stay with my aunt. and uncle. So here you can have it back, uh, just all around. Uh, so that this is when she goes to Diego Rivera, most famous painter in, uh, Mexico and is like, hey, do you think I'm good? He, honestly, like, he is a proponent of her work throughout her life and is like she's a much better painter than me. And they begin a relationship after, you know, he's like, yeah, you're, you're amazing. He's 20 years older than her. He weighs 300. pounds. She weighs, you know, nothing. She's tiny person and he's this massive, her mom described it as

an elephant and a dove. Oh, God. And she, her descriptions of him, she's like, I love, she's like, I find him so attractive the way his skin is like green, like an amphibian, his eyes are like a toad. She is a perfect weirdo. I love her so much. She's like, I love his tits. He's got the great tits. He's got a great tits. His tis incredible. She loves his big, big titties. She's classically by.

Yeah. But researching her is kind of this weird experience because she's this like walking melodrama of like magical realism that dazzles everyone important everywhere she goes. But then she's so advanced and the sexism is so profound that she's like treated as the spunky wife of this great painter. But so. you're like, it's a weird experience where like she is the main character

undercover as the background character like throughout her life story because of who she's married to and like how people were kind of just into him and because he was a man at the time. But she would go on to say, I had two major accidents in my life, the bus and Diego. The night of their wedding, not a great start.

He, so the, this is a quote. um, Diego then went, so after they get married, Diego then went to the following wedding reception and started getting ridiculously drunk.

He shattered several items on the table, broke the little finger of another man, and brandished his pistol in a fit of rage. Um, and so she's like, all right, we're, I'm going to leave you for a couple days now,

but then they get back together. And yeah, they, they have a crazy tumultuous, uh, affair that I, I, I just,

like the, the movie, Frida, he's like, gets almost as much screen time as she does. And the last thing I'll say about he, his father made him a room with chalkboard walls and then he grows up to like, be like, you must paint on walls. Walls is the place to paint. So, uh, I find that funny. But for the most part, it's just like, yeah, I don't know. He's, he's a minor character in this story. He was really fucked Didn't he have an affair with her sister or something?

Yes, had an affair with her sister Had an affair like constantly was just like I actually, I talked to a doctor babe And he said that I actually am not capable Of being faithful He weaponized some therapy talk real quick. Yeah, he was he was proto fuck boy Brodo fuck boy, yeah

That's what he should be known next. What I love about her though, she's not fucking, she changed her name to Christina, her sister's name when that happened. And I go, Diva's bowling. She knows how to play. She got with Noguchi Samu after that. Yeah.

Because she was like, oh, bet. Okay. Literally, that's not going to be like, she throws down. Yeah. She's never, yeah. She's the wrong one to fuck with. But it's just crazy how like just even for the depictions you get of Diego Rivera, you're like, well, there's a lot of shit that can be talked about too with him.

That's beyond the. Yeah. This is his wife. But yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, definitely interesting. but like I do think he gets too much of the attention in people telling stories about her life.

Because like the first major biography and the one that the Thelaheik movie is based on is from like 1982. So you got Reagan politics like coming through. Well, I also thought of this. I don't know if anyone saw the King Pleasure Bosciat exhibit. It was a beautiful exhibit, but it was also coordinated and like funded

with his family who famously denied his gayness. And so... Oh, really? Yeah. And so his family's doing it, and you're watching, you're like walking through, and this is what, 2023 it happened in LA?

You're looking at all these things and the giant omission of his queer identity and whether or not that be specifically gay, but it was like any sort of queerness was completely eliminated. And I think about that with the telling of these icon stories where a crucial component that could connect everything is just delicately omit it.

Like, you know, they had troubles. They were messed up. But we don't know, like, the whole, maybe it was a driving factor or whatever it was. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's like, well, we don't want to get into style. Like, I'm a white guy writing this script. I don't know if I can, I don't know if I can tackle all that.

She was kind of a fire, a little fire starter. You're correct. Real smart bug. I see. But actually, though, and they're like, it won't be bad if I omit this. That's no big deal. And you're like, that's the. thing. Like what? Yeah. That actually, I have no questions, Your Honor, if you actually include all that.

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And just when I said that, my mom comes out of the kitchen. She says, and cookies and milk. This is a badass convict. Right. Just finished five years. I'm going to have cookies and milk at them all. Yeah.

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I'm an alcoholic. And without this trouble, I'm going to die. Open your free I-HAR radio app. Search the CETO show. And listen now. So as for her style, like her first painting did fully incorporate the elements

of her like fantastical, you know, like, it's a painting of this guy, Luther Burbank, uh, who was a, California horticulturalist. Luther Brebeck is such a cartoon name.

I know. He invented 800, like she has good taste in people. Like, so this is the first one that I was like, oh, she's like doing kind of saint, like the Catholic equivalent of like saint paintings, but about like secular people. He invented like 800 flowers and fruits and like a blight resistant potato. And she paints him as like a part plant man coming out of his own. own rotting corpse. It's like this weird image. I'll put it in the chat.

His own rock corpse. I think it is. It's like a dead body with like the roots coming out of. Maybe it's not a corpse, but it's coming out of like a body that's underground. But yeah, that was like she just. Yeah, showing the cycle of life, you know. Yeah.

Start from the ground and feed the earth and come up in these other formations. But yeah, she's just like pooling from all these different things from like Catholic art, like there's a surrealist quality to it. The surrealist actually like really try to claim her. There's, uh, this guy, what's his name? Andre Breton, who is really like, she's actually, she didn't realize it when she was painting, but she is a surrealist. And she, uh,

her girl, you're pretty smart. Yeah. Yeah. He said, they thought I was a surrealist, but I was not. I never painted dreams. I painted my reality. Um, she also said, I never knew I was a surrealist till Andre Breton came to Mexico and told me I was. Haven. Haven. Other things she said about the French surrealists. I fucking love. This guy was super

annoying. We'll get to it. Uh, callow's impression of the French surrealist, which she wrote about in a letter to the American photographer and her lover, Nicholas Murray, uh, was, uh, they're so damn intellectual and rotten that I can't stand to them anymore. I would rather sit. on the floor in the market of Toluca and sell tortillas than have anything to do with those artistic bitches in Paris. They sit for hours in the cafe warming their precious butts and talk without stopping about culture, art revolution, and so on and so forth, thinking themselves the gods of the world, dreaming the most fantastic nonsense and poisoning the air with theories and theories that never come true.

Shit and only shit is what they are. So this guy, Andre, like this guy was like really dogmatic. He was like the head of the surrealist school. And he would be like, no, you actually, if you want to be a surrealist, you actually have to paint this. And like he would like make rules for what was a surrealist and what wasn't. Which also. It's an art form.

These are the rules. You have to do it this way. Or it's not the art I'm talking about. They played a game called truth and consequences, which is basically like truth or dare, but he would like prosecute the rules of that game to a point that like made it no fun for anybody. Wait, like you'd be playing and like, okay, Andre, truth or consequence. To be honest, I feel like the entire proposition is an absurdity.

Yeah, yeah. He was just. Well, I'm also looking at stuff because I'm always often reminded of Hilma off-climped as an artist of that era. And you said that because she really bopped at being a surrealist. She said it's metaphysical. It's not surreal. and I just Googled his name and hers

and he did the exact same thing. Yeah, same thing to her. He was like, girlie, you are so real. Jesus. It must be so painful too. You're this artist. You're making your own art and some guys trying to be like, yeah, you're actually part

of death row records. Yeah, literally. Welcome to the club, babe. Frida did probably fuck his wife. He spent a lot of time together. and when they wrote letters together that were like, I have not forgotten you. The nights are long and difficult without you.

Oh, my God. And I'm sure she probably, all for you had to do is be like, you know what I think your husband? And she was like, I love you. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, he's just warming his ass talking bullshit all day. You're right.

I think this guy kind of sucks, right? Instant bang. Yeah. Also hated America, which we'll get to. but um, I have a pretty good, I've a pretty good idea why. She was right on about America in many,

many ways. What happened? Diego was getting all sorts of commissions. He was like kind of world famous at this time and would get commissioned to do these big murals. He got commissioned to do a mural in Rockefeller Center when that was being built. And then like they destroyed it because he painted marks and angles. like a, you know, put, he's like, yeah, no, this is, they were like, yeah, you said you're going to do that,

but like these are, it's like too good. They look too good. So, they've been a long time. It's so funny. It's like, is that Martin? No. No, it's not. Yeah, yeah.

But around this time, she has two very painful miscarriages. And that's where you get one of her most famous paintings. I think it's Henry Ford Hospital because one of them happens in Detroit. And it depicts her on a bed with like all these different objects connected to her by umbilical cords. It's just the sort of thing. Like nobody had painted anything like that at the time, like something that was like depicting in such stark detail, something that was like such a brutal part of, you know, the experience of being a woman. I was also a little, I'm wondering what you guys interpret it.

In that moment, like we kind of take the agency of a. abortion away in that era. And in her journals at that time, I saw her saying, like, because I don't think I can carry a term because of my injuries in the bus and it's Diego's child, I have no choice but to terminate. Yeah. And so then it's called miscarriage. And I don't know if that's poetry she's using or like they're covering up the fact that she chose to have an abortion. Yeah. I think she was like of two, it seems like she was of two minds and like partially she was like, I wish I could get an abortion, but we're in the United States. And that's not a thing that I can do right now.

But in terms of how it's like depicted in the movie, it's like, she's like, I really want to have a baby because I, that's my one job as a woman, essentially. Yeah, they just like make it very, very straightforward that she. And like she always has like fun pets throughout her life. Like she always has like monkeys and stuff like that and male historians. are like these are, you know, stand-ins for the children that she could never have. Or she was just like super fun and like to have fucking monkeys around because they were cool as shit. That's incredible.

Who would it? But she's, yeah, like this is where there's interviews in like the New York Times or they're like, and look at his spunky little wife. She also paints pictures. She got monkeys. Yeah, she's fun. And, you know, her paintings. I think there's one time where they like,

she sells a couple of paintings for like $200. Now she holds the record for the most valuable painting by a woman at this point for El Swayno La Cama, depicting herself sleeping in a bed in the sky with like a skeleton on top of the canopy bed. This is where as Bad Bunny said in Nueba Yole selling records like Frida Kahlo paintings. she sold that painting for, or they sold that painting for $54.7 million last year, which is a record, which is a lot. I will say, I was like, oh, it's the most for a woman.

Like, what are we looking at for the most of all time? I would say, if you're an art collector, go by art by women because, like, the most valuable painting by a man is $450 million. It's Salvatore Mundi, which is a Leonardo da Vinci painting. of Jesus sold to Prince Muhammad bin Salmon and comparing those two like yeah

the Frida Kahlo painting fucking rips the Salvatore Mundi like it just it's just a painting of G like you could this could be in it's him doing this shit yeah he's doing the the deuses imagine seeing this

Frida Kahlo before computers like for fuck sake it's so graphic that's so amazing it's so beautiful the Da Vinci seems to answer the question what would Jesus look like if he had an eye infection like that's all I'm getting from that is just like a dark background with Jesus

thrown up deuses the only reason this could possibly be like expensive I think is it's like it's proof maybe Jesus was trans because it's like it's male female it's all identity it's like fluid it's also like a dress that's like very like feminized so I go like that's kind of the only reason you should pay because that's a heavenly proof and that probably true. But like, what?

Yeah, I think there's a market inefficiency here. Like hers is so much better than the most valuable. Yeah, because I think that one is just purely the idea that it's this painting from, you know, like the 15th or 16th century. And like I feel like it's the time that is elapsed is giving that way more, you know, value than the actual artistic aspect of it. Yeah. For me, I'm like, right, yeah, it looked like Matthew and Mark were farting on his pillow. the night. As mentioned, she had an affair with Trotsky.

Trotsky was like an interesting figure. I hadn't really done that much research into. So he was like the guy along with Lenin. He led the building of the Red Army that like eventually brought the communists to power in Russia. But then after Lenin died, he basically got out maneuvered by Stalin. And Stalin was like, I'm going to kill this motherfucker. and had him like erased from history books.

So he's in Mexico laying low because Stalin is trying to kill him everywhere else. And he's laying low with Frida and Diego. And they have an affair at this time. He's older. He's played by Jeffrey Rush in the movie. He's kind of old. He was in Shine. Shine is his big one.

That was his great movie. Everyone called him Shiny McShine after that. That's pretty fun. We did. He called him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

But then there's a weird thing where, like, she then has to renounce Trotsky after he's assassinated by Stalin. In Mexico. Wasn't he killed in Mexico? By a pickax. Yeah. And it was somebody who Frida was friends with who did it or, like, had hung out with recently.

And so people were like, was she involved in this? So it seems unlikely that she was involved in it. Just that, like, you know, she knew all the. You knew they would have had a field, like propagandists would have had a field day. Yeah, yeah. And she's actually our goaded artist because she helps set up Leon Trotsky. Yeah. So she did like kind of begrudgingly accept Stalin after Stalin died in 1953.

She painted a self-portrait of herself next to his face. This was before people knew that he had butchered like eight million people. But she seems to generally object to people who, love talking about theory and arguing about rules. So I can't imagine that she was fated to be like the best communist in the world, you know? She's also, yeah, it's very like, be about it. Like, do it with your chat. Like it's like.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Just live that shit. Right, right, right. She also did do his self portrait dedicated to Leon Trotsky that has like a. She did. That's like one of her, yeah, famous self-pot. She's like, I love you, girlie in the in the scroll. Yeah, but everybody's like, and she herself had to be like, no.

I don't like him that much. Really? Did she have to distance herself from Trotsky? But yeah, there's a famous self-portrait of her on the border between the U.S. and Mexico showing like these machines in the U.S. like going down and like reaching into the roots, like these generators connecting to the roots in Mexico and just yeah. Like she did it with her full chest, you know, like the, the, the critter.

of the U.S. and capitalism. And, like, they, Diego specifically thought that, like, they had a chance that, like, a revolution in the United States, which, uh, would have been cool. But yeah, I mean, I also think, like, one of the core ways that people realize socialism is necessary is realizing that, like, well, health care should be a human right. And that was something that she was dealing with, like, throughout her life, you know? Like she, her health care bills were astronomical. And like that was one of the reasons that people speculate that she married Diego was that he was like, I'll help pay for your medical bills.

Yeah, because 30 surgeries at that time. What do we? Yeah. Fuck yeah. But, you know, generally considered a feminist icon who challenged traditional gender roles by dressing in male clothing, disregarding beauty norms by embracing her unibrow mustache. And yeah, it's like, we've taken. talked before about how a lot of lesbian relationships

in the lives of icons are like she had a very close friend that you know I love those historically close friendship. Yeah, yeah. It's never deigns to actually be like they were lovers. Yes. But yeah, she had affairs

with Giorgio Keith. That's kind of the big one. Yeah. Her to that one. Amazing. Famous Wisconsinite as well. Yeah. Oh. There's a quote from a letter. So this is weird because, so Josephine Baker is also somebody she gets romantically linked with because they're in a picture together in Paris, but like, and they do imply that in the biopic.

But nobody really, there's no real historic evidence they had an affair. So people, but it like kind of gets put out there more often than Georgia O'Keefe, whereas like, Georgia O'Keefe, there's a part in a letter from Frida Kahlo where she said, uh, Georgia O'Keefe didn't make a, love to me that time, I think on account of her weakness. Too bad. So that, I think we know, yeah. The way to bend over backwards. So that means they didn't have sex. All we have is evidence that they didn't have sex. That time. It's like the two most famous artists of that era had sex.

And like, why is nobody making a bigger, bigger deal? Well, because I will say racism is, deeply involved there because you want to exotized Josephine Baker and Frida and you want the sex symbols to be fucking and you don't, you know. That's a very good point. Yeah. Tough. But anyways, they divorced, got remarried multiple times or what they. To each other.

Yeah, to each other. Frida and Diego. And that's like how the story kind of gets told is like of this, you know, fraught relationship that keeps going up and down. as I mentioned, there's this painting of her after she cuts her hair, where she looks pretty, pretty cool. And people are like, her saying, fuck you to Diego, which it is. But it's also just like, I don't know, she looks fucking sick.

She looks fucking. She looks hot as shit. Yeah, she looks awesome. She, so to the point about her, like, not having that much success in her lifetime, she only had one full exhibit of only her work in Mexico. And it was like as she was dying as like, so her health was really like, Like, you know, these 1930s and 40s surgeries were not helping. And she often said, like, my health might be worse than if I had never done any of them at all.

And she was, you know, drinking a lot and on a lot of, like, painkillers just because that's, like, what she needed to survive. So, like, as she's, you know, in worse and worse shape, her artwork is becoming more and more popular. So her and Diego and this famous feminist photographer put together a exhibit at the Galleria Arté contemporaneo, the contemporary gallery of art in Mexico City. And she's, her doctors are like, you may not come to, you may not go to that. Like your body cannot handle it. And she, so she has her bed. like you're not allowed to leave your bed.

So she has her bed set up at the gallery and then gets brought in on a stretcher from a ambulance. And is there like getting drunk the whole night and parties and has a great time. And that's one of her last public appearances before she passes away. There's debate about whether she died like at her own hand or if she just like kind of. It's one of those things we've talked before about how. like sometimes people just like have a sense that they're going to die you know and they're just like yeah she gave uh Diego their 25th anniversary ring like the day before she died uh she told me the day and time and she was right yeah she told you the day and time yeah she was like sick and it was like a

that weekend and she like was like Wednesday at noon and i was like okay and then cut too I guess you best Wednesday. And it was like, okay. And it wasn't like spooky. You shouldn't say it like a prophecy. It was just like that's when. Yeah. Yeah.

Hey, are you free on Wednesday? Hey, cancel volleyball practice. Yeah, yeah. 11. Round 11. Does that work for you? Or, um, did you push it?

Make it a little earlier. We do it. The last words in her diary are, I hope the exit is joyful and I hope never to come back. Frida. And the final sketch appears to be the angel of death. So she knew. she was going.

But yeah, her popularity exploded after her death. And then in the 70s and 80s, Madonna acquired several of her paintings, including 1932's My Birth and just, you know, she was always popular with people who were like cool artists

themselves. And then it just you know, that is how taste is made is that people are them like, oh, oh shit, Madonna thinks this is cool. And now she like, now there's like, Frida Handcrafted Tequila and shit like that. Just like a staggering array of products for somebody who was a communist and outspoken anti-capitalist.

And products are like unironically like hair removal cream by Frida. Like it's like it's bad. Yeah. There is a Barbie that like doesn't that her skin is like lighter than Frida Kahlo's skin is. There is a makeup line that uses a photo. with no facial hair or a unibrow, which was a real, it was a real photo,

but they, like, you know, found the one where she, like, didn't have her unibrow. And we're like, they even put her face on money in Mexico at one point.

God. I don't know. How much can we miss the point of this? But I will say, oh, and then world-class shitbag, Harvey Weinstein, because the movie was made by Miramax,

he kept being like, wait, why do you have, have to have a unibral. Like, I hired, Tomaheke and, like, I keep seeing Frida Kahlo on the screen. And these things are going to throw up.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyways, uh, her performance is great. It did a lot to like, kind of popularize knowledge of Frida Kahlo, I'd say. Oh, I didn't, I don't think I really heard about Frida Kahlo until the late 90s.

Because I remember in school, there was such an emphasis on Diego Rivera. that when I was like, when I saw it, I'm like, wait, this artist was married to Diego Rivera? Because motherfuckers had me thinking there was only Diego Rivera. I mean, again, this was like my Lutheran school art class, which I'm not surprised. The kids have such a clear perspective. Yeah. And that is.

Yeah. But like when you're told by a teacher, like, and this is one of the greatest artists from Mexico and their paintings are iconic and these are depictions that they've done in the U.S. blah da da da da. And you kind of create this tunnel vision. It's, I mean, it's, it's one of those shocks. get like I think most people do when they realize how sort of short their education came from fully giving them the total picture. But yeah, that was like, I was, I remember being shocked when I was like, oh, but again,

at that time, I had no concept of like, sort of like the patriarchal aspects of it. I just go, I guess this person wasn't popping until now or something. Well, and to support the point, though, that he's always mentioned in relationship to her, she's never mentioned in relationship to him. And even her, the fuck you, Diego, um, masculinized photo, it would never be characterized. It's to fuck you Diego.

It's not processing her feelings of fuck you Diego. Like it's like never the ownership of self. Right. Yeah. I will say on the question of, which we always like on our icons, we like to say, you know, if they were alive in the last 20 years,

would they have been in the Epstein files? Um, I think she is the most defensive. definitive absolutely not. She has to be because Diego would. Yeah. Exactly. No, she'd have to be.

And she would be ignoring everyone, but she would have to like, Diego would go to a party or two. You know that he'd have dinner. He'd, like, even if he's not. And so then it'd be like, he got money from a guy he don't like because fuck that guy. Yeah. That was the thing.

He got kicked out of the communist party because he just kept taking jobs from, like, the bourgeois. But I don't think she hated America. for all the right reasons. Her one quote on the U.S. that I love is everything here is about appearance,

but deep down it's a pile of shit. RIP Frida Kahlo, you would have fucking hated this world for all the best reasons. But that's amazing. And you have to wonder what kind of flack she received and how she endured it for having such a fucking radical opinion. Yeah. And not backing down.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They just, I mean, in some ways this might be where people not taking her seriously, like, helped. Like, when she was in the U.S., people were like, literally children would be like, where's the circus? Why are you dressed like that? And, yeah, otherwise they're just like, oh, she's, she's spunky. She's fun.

Yeah, I know. Where's the circus? Like, who's this clown? It's interesting, too, to kind of see, I was just reading the other day, like, there's a huge kind of scandal, not scandal, but. Yeah, I guess it's a scandal because there's a huge collection of Mexican art that's going to be shipped off to Spain for display. Yeah, including work by her. Yeah.

And her work is known as like, they're like cultural monument that belong to this. I think it's like technically officially designated as cultural monuments. Yeah. Artistic monument status. And so like meaning if a piece like if peace can only leave for a little bit, like there is no such thing as that shit going. And like right now there's like, you know, the people in Spain are like, so these works will have a permanent presence. And like there's a whole tug.

It's I think just the, because there's like bank of Santander is involved like with this collection that I, there's like a lot of it that I haven't totally read into. But it just seems like over this one thing, which but makes sense too for the people of Mexico and like the artists there like you can't like so much of her work was about anti-colonialism and a commentary on it to then have. this like literally extracted from the land and taken back to Spain. This feels fucking bad and I just hope we can do something about this. But yeah, it's it's like a collection that was originally owned by some people that was bought by the Zambrano family.

That already sounds like Gibroni. Yeah. Spanish for Gibroni. Gibroni family. But yeah, it's just, like, it's just fascinating to see that those sort of tensions exist constantly, like those just don't end. And even something like that,

like her work as iconic as it is, there's still like that sort of colonial instinct to be like, why shouldn't we have that over here since we can afford it? All right. You've had it for so long. Give it back. Give me a turn.

Yeah, yeah. Exactly. I just put a photo of her cross-dressing as a kid, like for a family portrait where they were like, all right, everybody get dressed up and she came down, like a three-piece suit looking so fucking dashing. It's really cool picture.

Like, it's like when people are like, what about this? Like, if I saw this person, I wouldn't know their gender, I saw this person in the room. It's like the most striking individual you've ever seen. Yeah, yeah.

You go, God damn. What's what's going on there? A fucking drip. I feel like I've seen people like that too. Me and like, her majesty, we'll see somebody like, yeah, what the fuck was that person's problem? looking all beautiful and shit.

We saw this orthodox dude. We saw this Orthodox Jewish dude walking. He looked like a fucking super. We were like, we both looked at each other like, that guy was like fucking beautiful, right? Like that was crazy, right? Right, right. You know, like there's just sometimes you see people

or you have to look at another mortal human and go, that was a beautiful specimen that just passed us, right? No, I had to, I was at an event the other night. I had to clock by like internalized misogyny about like war because the waitresses were some of those beautiful women. I was like, hey, you shouldn't be working. Stop it. Stop.

Hey, yeah, yeah. Let me take that. Whoa. You're working way too hard looking like that. Oh, whoa. You're just stunning to be doing this. My God. There was also, I remember my boy, Dylan, there was a guy at Jack in the Box,

who he said was the most beautiful man we'd ever seen, who used to work the drive-thru at Jack in the Box. I remember high school, we were so high. This dude gave us our tacos. I were like. I went to your face. bro, I go, yo, bro, that man was so beautiful. He was, he was like, yeah, bro, that was, he was beautiful, bro.

And then after we were like 17 at the time, I remember, it was like this very real moment. Hey, go back, go back. No, cut to it is in front of him. Like, they're still high, like in front of him. Yeah, yeah. He's like, you guys can go. And usually because his eyebrows were on point. We had never seen a man with, like, beautifully manicured eyebrows.

And at 17, you know, you're so, like, rigid in your masculinity. but that shit cut right through that we were both like... Still cutting. I could text him right now. I'm gonna text him while on this. I bet you he'll respond. I go, hey, remember the one dude

at Jack in the Box? The most beautiful guy we ever saw? I swear to God, he's in response. It's striking. It's incredible. It moves you. Yeah, it really does. So, yeah.

She chose well when it came to who she chose to paint. Luther Burbank and... The two most beautiful. This motherfucker. This motherfucker. motherfucker right here. Yeah.

She would, yeah, I mean, she was laid up. So she would, like the contraption you were talking about that her, I think her mom had special made and then her dad like did some work on like was a lap easel, but then she had a mirror on the ceiling that she would use to like then paint herself, which is kind of cool. And next to the bed now is an inscription of a, like they just the museum facilitators. Patty Smith, who's the perfect comp, I feel like we can understand maybe

how like a gender fluid artist might identify now or queer. But so Patty Smith wrote a poem called Lifted by Butterflies, I think it was, about what she felt when she saw Rita's bed. And it's now next to the bed. And I thought that was so beautiful to have Patty Smith sort of describe the feeling in poetry.

Yeah, that's really cool. Look, I've already, he's already responded. Remember that dude from the Jack in the Box drive? Oh my God. Is this right now? Yeah. Of course. Of course.

What do you mean? Do I remember him? Same. He's like, why can you give me context right now? Shout out my boy Dylan right there. Shout up Dylan. Always coming through.

I knew he to respond. It's seminal. It was seminal. Of course, Ha ha ha is perfect. It's like, yeah, idiot.

It's the most perfect thing we ever saw. Do I remember God? You mean the one you asked me about yesterday? Yeah. The one you sent me a drawing of yesterday. So beautiful. beautiful this man. The white whale. Mo Frypazic, such a pleasure having you on for this episode. I love it with you too. It's so fun. So fun having you. Where can people find you, follow you, hear you, all that good stuff? They can do all the things they can listen to worse than you with MoFaripas at Worst Than You Show on Instagram at Moppa, M-A-U-X, P-A-S, but mainly just the Insta podcast. We're working on season, I think four and five, we're racking them up. Damn, it's too many. And you know what, that's what everybody's saying. It's sad. but yeah and that's it that's all I got but I'm excited to interact with folks every time I

am talking with you guys I have the loveliest most thoughtful people follow me on Instagram it's crazy it really is it's like no it's very sweet so good folks we've been doing it for so long that all the all the shit has burnt off and it's just the good folks now it's like what maga did with like white supremacy and they burned it down to like the grossest part right we've We're down. Like we're just, it's a nice, the purest form. The most wonderful listeners. And the blue, that blue glass.

Spoiled. We are. We're very lucky. Now you're talking about fucking meth from Breaking Bad. Why? What were you talking about? I'm talking about Frings Blue, man. Get some methlamine real quick.

Miles, where can people find you? Good rep. Me, you can find me just searching for Fring's blue and a barrel of methylamine with a bumblebee on it. And every day, the Daily Zikeast, you know. Yeah. You just find me there. You got a footy podcast.

Yeah, ain't a footy today. Ain't a footy. Or footy pod. Yeah, a bit of foo, yeah. Check, check it all out. I'm going to be back in moments for the No, no, no, no, no notebook. Dump, don't, don't.

I'll talk to y'all in a bit. Bye. Bye. American soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. Ramel sending on to Ernie. Store at the chip. I'm Tab Ramos. I'm Tom Boe.

On our podcast, Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines. I'm not worried about Policic. I'm not worried about Balagan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back. The biggest decisions. If you're going to look at stats and numbers, he has no shot at making this World Cup team.

And the truth about the U.S. national team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarter. quarter finals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. Listen to Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tabramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. Hey, Ernest, what's up?

Look, money is something we all deal with, but financial literacy is what helps turn income into real wealth. On each episode of the podcast, Earn Your Leisure, we break down the conversations you need to understand money, investing, and entrepreneurship. From stocks and real estate to credit, business, and generational wealth, we translate complex financial topics into real conversations everyone can understand. Because the truth is, most people will never taught how money really works.

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I said, hi, Dad. And just when I said that, my mom comes out of the kitchen. She says, I have some cookies and milk. This is a badass convict. Right. Just finished five years. I'm going to have cookies and milk at my mom. Yeah.

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And listen now. I feel like it was a little bit unbelievable until I really start making money. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast Eating While Broke, is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum-Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. If I'm outside with my parents and they're seeing all these people come up to me for pictures,

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That was our Frida Kahlo episode. Thank you to Mo Fry Passick for joining. Thank you to J.M. McNabb for putting the doc together. And we did get an update after the recording ended Miles's friend wrote back. And when asked if you remember that guy at the drive-thru, he said, of course and then that his

quote brows were undeniable locked in so this was a formative experience for both of them this is the notebook dump

in terms of what a good time Frida Kahlo was this is the first by the way in a couple of icons who in addition to being among the most talented

artists of their lifetime would have been just the most fun people to party with ever. Frida, next week's guest, Carrie Fisher. But one of the anecdotes I liked about Frida that I forgot to mention was that she was extremely good at playing the game exquisite corpses, which I don't know if you're familiar.

This is an improv party game where you take turns drawing a body. You like fold the paper so you can't see what's already been drawn and then kind of link it up into one big body. And Frida was good at this, not only because she was great artist, but because she used her great artistic talents to make sure the body had either, you know, giant boobs or, I quote, an enormous penis dripping with semen. Frida did all the worst ones, Lucien Block recalls.

some of them made me blush and I don't blush easily. Block is another feminist artist. She's playing a party game with a bunch of leftist artists and making them blush. She was also literally cracking jokes right before her leg was amputated because she couldn't stand how serious everyone was being. Yeah, she's just all around seemed like a blast. I think I mentioned she had tons of pets, doves, spare. turkeys, monkeys. Eight of herself portraits feature spider monkeys for good reason. She always had spider monkeys around her. She also had an eagle named Gertrude Cacablanca,

meaning Gertrude white shit because the bird just always shit up the outside of her house. There's a sort of childishness about her and Diego and like how they would interact and make each other laugh that just seemed like a lot of fun. as a fairly immature human being myself. In terms of her bisexuality, we've talked on past episodes about women with, you know, quote, really good friends when, you know,

gay relationships are written out of the historical record. The prevalence of the Josephine Baker story reveals, I guess, what would be a countervailing tendency that the podcast, queer as fact, pointed out, When two queer people are on the historical record in our room together, everyone wants to assume they had sex. To me, it seems like the historian equivalent of when straight people try to set up their only two gay friends.

They're just like, hey, you guys are, you guys would love each other. Josephine Baker, Frida Kahlo may have had sex with each other. There's just no good evidence they did, according to the podcast Quearest Facts, who seemed like they did a very deep look into this. But isn't it enough that she fucked Trotsky and Georgia O'Keefe? I think I mentioned Frida Kahlo was selling paintings, you know, for a couple hundred dollars in her lifetime. And recently, you know, she now holds the record for the most valuable painting by a woman artist at $54 million.

There's a reason bad bunny references. her when he's trying to brag about how much money he's making, selling his albums. But she took that record from Georgia O'Keefe, who had it before her. Isn't it crazy enough that they had sex? It's like LeBron and Jordan fucking each other. She is like Forrest Gump. She just happens to be in the rooms with everyone cool and important who was like in the same country as her at the time that she was alive.

if Forrest Gump had fucked some of those presidents he crosses paths with, which we don't know he doesn't. There are some crazy deleted scenes from that movie that are turning up. I think we mentioned a couple times the sexist readings of her life from historians, men and women historians, one of the craziest ways that they tried to make her the romantic co-star of her own life was how they suggested that she had affairs with women because Diego was into lesbianism. First of all, a husband who's like, you know who you should sleep with?

Not another guy, but this other attractive woman. I doubt that's unique to Diego Rivera. But secondly, she was like she was jealously in love with her gym teacher, a woman named Sarah when she was much younger. and cross-dressing for family photos at a young age, something you can see in the movie Frida, which in addition to making the bold decision to have everyone speak English in a Spanish accent,

they also make the bold decision to have Samahaiq play, Frida, as everything from a child to her deathbed, which whenever somebody is like, this older actor, we're going to age them down to 13. It always reminds me of that part of eternal sunshine of the spotless mind where Jim Carrey is a baby who just looks like Jim Carrey or Nathan Fielder running it back as baby sully. Anyways, we mentioned that she traveled to the U.S.

and Diego loved it and she summed it up as a pile of shit. It's worth looking at her 1932 painting borderline between Mexico and the United States, uh, which she created after that visit. came to view the U.S. as the embodiment of exploitative industrialization and capitalism, end quote. Nah, nah, Frida, it's not like that. You got us all wrong. It's not, nothing like that. But the painting is cool.

They're generated from the U.S. side, like parasitically attached to the roots of the plants on the Mexican side. And finally, there are these details from her life that, as I mentioned, feel like they're out of, like a high dream or like a magical realism. Maybe the best example was the bus crash that like caused her clothes to come off of her and dumped a packet of gold, like actual gold dust on her body. And people were just like she was laying there and people like couldn't believe it. They started calling her like ballerina because she just like looked so gorgeous as she is in this moment of near death.

But I've had weird, like, magical realism stuff happen in my life. And I'm just curious, like, is this, yeah, I'm sure this happens to everybody. So I'm just, you know, I find that interesting. Right in with your own. One time my friend was talking shit about how good he was at basketball. And as we were having a conversation, we drove past someone who was wearing his high school jersey on the streets of Venice, like his number, his team and his last name, which is Curry horror. So it wasn't somebody else. And it was just very, very strange. I think we stopped the person and they

were like, yeah, I just got it at a threep sore. But another time, my friends and I took too many mushrooms and were followed around town all night by a purple balloon. I would love to hear any magical realism moments like that that people had from their real lives where, you know, it's the sort a thing that if you put it in a movie, they'd be like, wow, weird flourish from that director. That, like, that's actually what the bus crash gold thing, because they did put that in the Frida movie. And that's, it feels like, oh, this director was pulling up from the logo. Like, this was a real heat check moment from this director inserting a bit of magical realism. But yeah, curious to hear from people. What are your moments of magical realism? All right, that is it for

Rita Kalo. We are back next week with another incredible iconic creator, another inductee into the Hetty Lamar Hall of Fame for being both the iconic face of Star Wars and the person who made the scripts for movies like Sister Act and the wedding singer much, much better with anonymous rewrites. And as mentioned, was just a Hall of Fame good time. Next week we are diving into Carrie Fisher with Jamie Loft. and Caitlin Durante. Until then, I hope you have an iconic week. And not in the bad way. Not the way that like the week of 9-11 was an iconic week. But like a good,

good iconic week. I will talk to you all then. Thanks. Bye. Now everybody over here? Oh, it's one of my other favorite places. The Twilight Gazebo. Sunset Gardens.

Twilight gazebo. What's next? Dead Man's Grove? Mom, could you please? try to be a little bit positive about this? From Kenya Barris, the visionary creator of Blackish, comes Big Age, an audible original about finding your way in life's next chapter. This audio comedy series follows a retired couple's reluctant relocation to Sunset Gardens, a Floridian senior community that is anything

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Coming up this season on Math and Magic, CEO of Liquid Death Mike Cesario. People think that creative ideas are like these light bulb moments that happen when you're in the shower. It's really like a stone sculpture. You're constantly just chipping away and refining. Take to Interactive CEO Strauss Selnick and our own chief business officer, Lisa Coffey. Listen to Math and Magic on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. On paper, the three hosts of the Nick Dick & Poll show are geniuses.

We can explain how AI works, data centers, but there are certain things that we don't necessarily understand. Better version of Play Stupid Games, win Stupid prizes. Yes. Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor Swift who said that for the first time. I actually thought it was. I got that wrong. But hey, no one's perfect. We're pretty close, though.

Listen to the Nick, Dick, and Paul show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast Eating While Broke, is. bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer Zoe Spencer and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum-Pierre as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. There's an economic component to community striving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they failed. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.