The Daily Zeitgeist - Icon #22 - Anna Wintour: The Ice Queen of Fashion

Episode Date: May 11, 2026

In this edition of The Iconograph, Jack and Miles are joined by comedian Mano Agapion to talk about the fashion icon who, paradoxically, has not altered her look in decades:Anna Wintour! They'll explore her nepo-baby beginnings, mono-maniacal focus on becoming the editor of Vogue, and that truly iconic haircut!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hello, the internet, and welcome to this spin-off episode of Dirtailies. Icon, which we're calling the iconograph instead of looking at the zeit guys through current events on Monday mornings. We like to take a little break from that. Look at the zeities through the powerful pop culture deities that are our icons. We use them as symbols to create meaning, to build identity, to know how to treat people who work for us. And then walking into a few walls while wearing your sunglasses at night is worth it for the price of iconography. That's right. Winter is coming.

Winter is coming. We're talking about Anna Wintour this week. That's right. From Mr. Bean last week to Anna Wintor, this show has rained. It's the Brit block right now. I know. We talked to him Mr. Bean? We did Mr. Bean.

I know you missed out. Awesome. I love. Both of us mono. We're like, fucking massive, massive Mr. Bean. Yeah. We also, our listener, Christy Yamaguchi, man will pool in the Discord. let me know that I got a big fact wrong.

That only lends to Mr. Bean's mystique, the sexual magnetism that is Mr. Bean. So I'll talk about that in the notebook dump. You idiot. But I'm joined once again by my co-host, former Condonest employee. The Anne Hathaway to my Emily Blunt, Mr. Miles Gray.

You clearly have no fashion sense is what you said to me. And I said, well, and she said, you said no. That's a statement. That wasn't a question. Wasn't a question. Look at you. You're wearing Jordans in the year of our Lord 20. I'm a millennial male.

They just heard so frumpy in that like the level of frump for like the first 20 minutes. They're like, could we put her in a fourth sweater? Yeah, they all the sweaters on top of each other. A big fat cow. And they're like, ew. Anne Hathaway. Yes. Right, right.

Which somebody who's been around people that work at Vogue, they would say something like that. Truly. That is one of the things that true to life and maybe a little bit watered down, actually. Yeah. How I am winter, winter. Yeah. I did. Yeah.

I left my job at Condé and asked to start doing the Daily Zake. Yeah. I had to let go. Just let go of that one Anna Wintosh. Thor Vine and I latched on to the Zygdice. That's right. Miles, we're thrilled to be joined in our third seat by a hilarious actor, writer,

improviser, podcaster who hosts the hilarious podcast. We love Traff on Patreon. You've seen him retelling the story of the famous poodle masterpiece on drunk history. You've seen him on the TV show Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. One of Google's top suggestions when you put his name in is mono Agapian boyfriend. So you know he's hot. and this is going on five years since I first introed him,

and I just checked still. You're kidding. The good boddo suggest is Mono Agapin. Fuck yes. Fuck yes. It's, I think, like, the fourth suggestion. This is awesome. Please welcome the hilarious, the talented mono Agapion.

Hey! Hey, y'all. Oh, that's awesome. Wow. Congratulations. You still got it. When you start low, you got nowhere to go but up. You know what I mean? Monoethnicity drop out then boyfriend.

Mono ethnicity always takes me out too. They're like, what is he? What is he? What is he? Some kind of Latin or what? Or Mediterranean. What is it? The answer for anyone who cares is Greek and Palestinian.

It's very, it's things. But at the end of the day, just people assume Latin. And that's fine. Do people just pull up to you and they're like, hey, get okay. And you're like, oh. Okay, you want to talk about, here's a fun microaggression. When you're like in a gay place and someone's like, hey poppy. And you're like, oh, okay, I see.

This is what you want me to be. But I'm not that. But I'm also like, but also sometimes people just say poppy as some people just say poppy. Yeah, it's like some white middle age guy who's saying that to you. That's when you know it's weird. Hey poppy. How about you drink, poppy. And I don't know how to say, well, yes.

but no, but yes. As long as I can watch the bartender port and I will select the highest level of alcohol. That part. I was going for well, Poppy. You don't want well vodka, Poppy? Poppy. Poppy.

Sounds like a Boston sports fan. Hey, big poppy. Hey, hey, Ken. You want to drink Poppy? I did get in trouble recently. I let some generous sugar daddies pay for my drinks when I was in Porto Vallarda. Mm-hmm.

And I thought they were being generous. But what I didn't realize was they were a little mad that they were generous, but they were expecting some sugar. Yeah. They were figuratively, in the old fashion sense, Googling monoagopian boyfriend. Exactly. Yes. Exactly. And then when I didn't like give them the attention.

And I thought I was, I thought I was that bitch. So I was like, boyfriend experience. Period. I was like, gray goose. I'm crazy and I start ordering gray goose. Right. And then they realized I'm not going to be doing anything with them. Yeah, you weren't poppy.

I was not poppy. I was brokey. And then they were like, should we split the bill? Should we just like split the bill? And then I had to be crazy and say, no. Yeah, I'd rather not. I'd prefer not. You offered.

You offered. And just because I didn't suck your old dick, doesn't mean you can. take the offer back. You know, the phrase... There's no such thing as if we're drinking Porto Viarder, right? I know.

Puppie. Shall we talk Anna Wintour? Yes. Devil wears a... One of my favorite movie monologues of all time. Oh, it's a good one. It's a good one.

It's a great one. Early in the movie, Anne Hathaway is still just being dressed as frumpily as pot. Like, I think they've got multiple sweaters on top of each other

like a Excel t-shirt underneath the sweaters. They're just like... It's like XL T-shirt, button-up shirt, then a cardigan. Yeah, just big-time straw man action in terms of her being not fashionable. And they're out of fashion fitting, and Anne Hathaway scoffs when they're like,

this belt or that belt. And she's like, they're both blue, who cares about this stuff? And Barrel's free. as Miranda Priestley aka Anna Wintour responds by saying oh okay I see

you think this has nothing to do with you you go to your closet and you select the lump that lumpy blue sweater for instance because you're trying to tell the world that you take

yourself too seriously to care about what you put on your back but what you don't know is that that sweater is not just blue it's not turquoise it's not lapis

it's actually cerulean and you And you're also blithely unaware of the fact that in 2002, Oscar de Laurenta did a collection of cerulean gowns. And then I think it was Yves Saint Laurent, who showed Surulian military jackets. And then cerulean quickly showed up in the collections of eight different designers. And then it filtered down through the department stores and then trickled on down into some tragic casual corner where you no doubt fished it out of some clearance bin. However, that blue represents millions of dollars and countless jobs. and it's sort of comical how you think that you've made a choice that exempts you from the fashion industry

when in fact you're wearing a sweater that was selected for you by the people in this room. Wow. A pile of stuff. Let the church say amen. Shout out to Aileen Broche McKenna, the writer of the movies. She snapped with that one. By the way, I found the text for that speech on Reddit where someone posted it to no stupid questions and then wrote,

our teacher wants us to explain this, but I'm quite confused about what actually is the meaning. Can anyone help? So shout out to that teacher, teaching the classics. Got to. The thing I love about that speech is it's like making it clear that there's like hidden work and beauty and design and thought being put into things all around us.

There are cathedrals hiding everywhere for those with eyes to see them. I am not a fashion person, so I think that's why that speech works so well on me because it's like, oh, shit. Whoa. Every color I see on a day-to-day basis was like selected for me. Like 20 years ago in some cases.

Yeah, that's how I feel about Dubai Chocolate. Dubai Chocolate was chosen for us. Right, right, right. And pushed to us. But I also just love a movie monologue or moment like that that then becomes pop culture, where it's just like, what a dream. Not many movies have those moments that have just become so good.

So good. Right. So good. Yeah. I kind of feel like the pretty woman, the like the pretty woman moment where she gets to shop in the rich store is kind of a similar vibe. Where it's like owning someone. But in this case, it's the rich person owning all of us.

Like Harrison Ford saying, I know when Princess Leia says, I love you. Right. Right, right, right. These are in that realm. But so during the research for this episode, because I don't, like, I don't know what looks good.

I need someone to tell me. But during the research for this episode, I was kind of looking for... Who does tell you that? The... Anna Wintor. I look at Vogue every day, Miles. No, my fashion sense is based on, like,

if a shirt I'm wearing got a compliment, like 30 wears a guy. go. I'm still there. I will wear a shirt until the sleeves, as we're talking about on an episode last week, I sneeze and the sleeves fly off. Just blow off. Yeah, yeah. That's how long I will wear a shirt.

Yeah, my fashion sense is it's the frustration of me being 13 at the mall and not being able to buy anything I want. And now I'm still 13. I'm still in the same sort of world of like fashionable t-shirt, basketball shorts. I can't quit basketball shorts because there's millennial men. It's hard. It's hard. Left to my own devices,

my aesthetic is 40-year-old toddler, but thankfully, I'm married now and my husband understands fashion, so I've reached the level of marriage where he just hands me a nice piece of clothing and says, you wear this now. Yeah, yeah. That's basically wear on that too.

It's backwards, mono. It's backwards. Oh, sorry. And then there are sometimes when I will learn, Like I did this weekend when my wife was like, that sweatshirt is not good. And you wear it all the time. And I'm like, oh, no, but I love the sweatshirt, but I can't wear it any. Like, I'm no longer going to be able to wear that without, like, I'll think about it.

Yeah. And then I'll not do it. So we all have our own Anna Wintours in our lives. Yes. But I was curious, like, what would the Cerulians be? Like, what would the things be that Anna Wintour has like, chosen that have like filtered down through our world and um there are definitely a few things like she came into the grunge moment in the 90s and was like nah we're we're bringing fur back

fur was like associated with like 80s cheesiness and like stretched limousines and she like made it happen again and uh is she's like the number one most hated person by pita oh is she oh that oh because of how influence is like bringing it that's just so funny like the people they're like we got to stop fur, fur is murder, we're throwing paint on people in Manhattan, and then all Andrew has to do is like, it's popping again. Right.

Exactly. It's a lot of just, yeah, moving a single finger and like millions of dollars going one direction or another. Another one that's kind of more relevant that I hadn't realized, more relevant to me,

is do you guys remember when there used to be different people who were commercial actors and tequila salesmen and sports team owners? and now all those things are just George Clooney and Ryan Reynolds. Right. Oh, yeah.

I think Anna Wintour helped make that happen. Like, just like, what if we used a celebrity for everything being the answer to every question in high culture? Like, she really helped jailbreak celebrities out of, you know, what they were. And, like, if you think about it, like, in the 80s, like, celebrities weren't always that glamorous. I feel like they weren't. Like, you'll go, I'll go back and look at an old S&L episode, and it's like, the celebrity host does not appear to be styled.

They appear to be wearing, like, whatever. I miss when people weren't styled. Also, like, our artists of the 90s, too. Like, I like when they look like shit. Like, the bands weren't styled, and now everyone is such a product. Everyone's styled, yeah. Yeah. Like, there was just such, like, de facto imperfection because people just kind of showed up as they are.

And now everything is so intentional. It's fucking wild. We talk about all the time, Jack, like in movies, you're like, bro, no one's fucking, like, normal looking. No, everybody would be fucking hot. Yeah. Like, we're the fucking regular people, yeah. Don't get to be ugly anymore because they already know how to be cool.

Right. Everyone's got a skincare regimen. I hate to say it, but I love to be an ugly. I'm not doing with my skin. Can you just tell me what you did from age 12 up to this point? I washed my face with. water on occasion. And then I also just want to ask

like whether she's uniquely good at like choosing these things and kind of like she's just allowed to be the high priestess of like culture for a lot of things. Like what is worth our time. Bradley Cooper when he was casting a star is born like ran it by her. He was like

what do you think of Lady Gaga for the role? Whoa. Really? Yeah. It wasn't her idea, but like, this is where she exercised a lot of powers. Like, people trust her. Like, you know, if she wanted to, like, it wasn't her idea to cast her, but probably could have stopped it from happening. Right, right.

And like, multiple times throughout the research, I was like, what exactly, like, clearly you have this magnetism. What is your talent? And, you know, obviously, the obvious answer is taste. And that was the one that I expected coming in. But then I'd say the other one is like, you know, a talent for iconography, by the way. She's like amazing at just creating her own icon. But a talent for leadership and above all just like people trust her.

Like sometimes when they shouldn't, people are just like, you tell us in a way. Sounds like Rick Rubin in a way too. Right. Right. Like Rick, what do you think? I know you're not a musician at all. But you have a, because he even says it. He's like, people pay me because I have good taste.

that's sort of what how I that's where I exist Is she the original influencer? Like you know what I'm saying? Like a pre-influence influencer? And that is the best thing that can be said about her. I'm sure she's thrilled to hear that. But yeah,

Rick Rubin was coming up a couple times in this for me and also Lauren Michaels as like just these people who are in these incredibly influential positions and like with Lauren Michaels and Anna Wintor you don't necessarily hear them speak a lot, but you hear people doing impressions of them or like speaking as them, you know? All right.

Let's get into a quick bio. So right up top, we have another nature, nurture kind of nepo baby question. Okay. She is, her father, Charles Wintour, was a respected newspaper editor for the London Evening Standard with a stern reputation. And everybody called him Chili Charlie. Oh my God. I can see.

It's like, I read, he puts orphan bones in his fireplace. Like, I can like, he's a Dekensian. Chili Charlie. Also, like, you, they hadn't invented Wintor puns yet. Right. Chili Charlie, his name is Charles Wintor. And they're like, uh, what do we call him?

What do we call them? They like a bit of alliteration. You know what I mean? Yeah, Chile Charlie. This keeps coming up with some of the icons that we've done where, like, people thriving in a very similar job to their parents where it doesn't seem like a job that would be handed down genetically. Like an NBA player, you're like, oh, well, you're both six, eight,

so that makes sense. But like, with, we've talked about Whitney Houston, whose mom was also a singer. And like, I can believe there's like a genetic aspect to that. But, you know, it is weird. Like, you'd think vocal chords would be such a fine, thing that like it wouldn't necessarily be directly translated, but like influential editor is like, that doesn't seem like it could possibly be a genetic trait. Yeah. Well, I wonder too

if like it's also like the chili part, because you know, she was called ice queen and all these other things. It's like truly she's like, okay, I will be a icy editor. Like, maybe they do have that in their bones. You go with what you know. And I mean, like, look, nurture is huge. And like we're all, I'm modeling the way I behave after my father, I hope. But the reality is my mom gets in there. Such is the circle of life. You're like, I'm trying to do this, but this is happening. I'd be curious, did she think he was a hero?

Or was she scared of them? She kind of idolized him, and she said the thing she learned from him is that people respond well to people who are sure of what they want, which is a big part of her appeal to people, I think is just certainty, and she kind of knew it from the beginning. God, that is a super power. And that's just so simple, too. Because I'm sure in any capacity where, like, you're doing something creative or, like,

in fashion, like, you're like, what do you think of this? And someone who just goes, yes. Right. Absolutely no. You're like, oh, fuck. Okay. Exactly. I'm taking that.

Yes. I saw somebody I know while we were both out walking dogs yesterday and, like, was, I was like, I was like, I, fuck. and blew that. But like for 45 minutes after I was like, what was I talking about? I must have come off. It was really weird.

She's just like, move forward. Yes. Bad. Get fucked. But also in terms of her knowing what is cool. I think it is a lot of nurture, both in terms of like picking up what her dad did as an editor. And also she was put in a position,

like the evening standard was a cool newspaper. It was the first. newspaper that started paying attention to the Beatles. And apparently the rock journalist who first discovered the Beatles was somebody who was like constantly hanging out over at their house when she was growing up. And her dad would also like lean on her to tell him what was cool. Okay, taking a little bit from here, taking a little bit from there. Yeah, exactly. Brian the editor has just chimed in saying wait, fashion icon, but she's had the same haircut for 50 years. That is one of the strangest things. She adopted her iconic Bob haircut when she was 15 years old.

You're fucking kidding. It was not uncommon at the time. Right. But as young women everywhere had that same haircut. But like, wow. Like this would be like if Lauren Michaels still had like a greaser haircut or something. You know what I mean? Like it's like so or like this still had the giant like sideburns from like the 70s. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of amazing though. Branding. She knew branding before Brandon was branding. That's exactly right. Like, but also like to keep the same haircut, like in a world of fashion, like where hair styling is like an important part of it, it's kind of an impressive level of like not giving a fuck. To just be like, yeah, no, I'm rocking with.

She also said that like she once got a bad haircut. She once tried something different and it went very badly. Uh-huh. And so she just, she's also like, like, oh. Yeah, yeah. and was like, I will never, never, ever again. How scary to cut her hair? To be the person doing it.

To cut her hair mono twice a week, which is how often her hair is cut. That's sick. She gets two haircuts a week and she gets it a wave dried or blow waved or something. A blowout? No, it's like a thing. It's different. A thing I hadn't even heard of it. Oh, okay.

I thought you were just being straight and you didn't know what blowout was. No, no. Blow waved daily. every single day she has a hairdresser come to her house to it's like what NBA players do yeah yeah like they're barber

because like you're never going to see the lineup get fucked it's never going to look dusty that she's wow that's cool even for like that simple haircut I'm like surely you could go to once a week right you should because like how do you know what you're cutting at that point

like how do you not make it shorter because you're getting more cuts than the there's a helmet she puts on anything that goes below the line. You just trim it off. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, there is just this weird way where she just always assumed she would be Anna Wintour.

There's like, there's an anecdote in her biography, Anna the biography by Amy O'Dell, which is what I am pulling a lot of research from. Also from J.M. McNabb put together a great doc for this one. But one of her first jobs, she's like, my goal is going to be, is to be the editor. Chief of American Vogue. Wow. This is like when she's like 18. Um, and then at that job, she's passed over for being the fashion editor of this magazine by someone who's just like, you know, has more experience.

She's like literally right out of high school. She didn't even fit. I don't think finish high school. And she just like cannot take that this woman who is her boss is front row at a fashion week show and like she isn't. She like goes nuclear. She's like calling every. and being like, this person doesn't care about fashion.

And it's just, she's your boss. She just like can't deal with it. Wow. And then that, of course, it's like she was allergic to anything where she was not fulfilling her destiny. Like front row at Fashion Week in her bob.

In the seat, she's known that she should occupy since she was a teenager, doing the job she knew she was going to do since she was a teenager in the same haircut she's had since she was 15, you know? Isn't it funny that like these people are sociopaths or talented or both? Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and the certainty is there from the area.

Why are we so drawn to people with this mania? Yeah. I think because it's like, to me, this is so novel because I knew what I thought I wanted to do when I was 15. Sure. And it was just be like goofy. You know what I mean? Yeah. I know what the job was going to be.

Yeah, yeah. To have that kind of singular focus and follow through, I think it's just amazing to most people because we drift along kind of having varying ideas for our future or our own identity. And she's like, no, this is me with the fucking mod bob front row at the fucking fashion show. Yes.

That's it. And you're like, damn, I remember in college too. She's 18 rolling up being like, who's this bitch. Right, right, right. That's your boss. She doesn't even have a mob bob and sunglasses. Yeah, I remember, like, being in college and being jealous of my friends who, like, went, who were accountants. Because I was like, damn, bro, at least you knew what the fuck you wanted to did.

You got your shit and you started your shit up. That's, like, the very, like, normal version. But to have, like, such high aspirations and fulfill it, I think it just feels like some kind of superhero shit. Yeah. And it's also a lining up of the thing that she knew she always wanted to do that she was intensely interested in and, like, very ambitious and passionate about. Also happens to be a thing that her father can, like, help her. her with, you know, like her father is in the publishing industry. Yeah, I mean, he's helping, he's making calls on her behalf from an early date.

So she is an Epo baby. She is a bit of an Epo baby. She also had money to fall back on her. Totally. Mom's side had money. Not like, you know, not generational wealth, but I think like right as she was coming out of high school, her. Sounds like she was pretty cushy.

Yeah, yeah. Her grandfather died and left. her enough money that she had money to fall back on. Imagine how evil he was. British guy. Caining children. All the live long day.

He designed the first non-lethal bullet. But yeah, I do think that is very important that she has the ability to not just like have a job that doesn't pay well as publishing

entry level stuff doesn't, but then to be confident enough to be like, oh, you're not going to promote me. Get fucked. I'm going to move on. And I think it does give her a blind spot. There's one point later in her life when she is the head of Vogue where someone who worked at Condonass once said they were told, Anna wants to fill this assistant role with either a socialite or a princess.

That's her taste in people. Yes, so she can knock them down a few pegs. Wow. As for your previous question, Mono, about like, being. drawn to these like monomaniacal people. Yes. There's this one point in on a biography where she says, like basically she's like, I was a joke among my family, like refers to herself as the black sheep because her brother like went to Harvard or something and like she just like talks about them being like very

dismissive of her pursuits. But then like at another point the book's like is open secret that she was her father's favorite and like everybody. And like sure like even the stuff about her siblings being dismissive. Surely they also, like, spent their life telling people that their sister is Anna Wintor. You know, like the brilliant magazine editor. Now, I wouldn't do they like her? That's what I want to know.

Who knows? I bet she doesn't care that much. But, like, I really feel like with Michael Jordan, there's this sort of manufactured discontent. Okay. And, like, I, it did make. me stop and think about like how many of these icons that we've covered actually seem happy. Like is it possible to be iconic and happy? And it's like I think it's the people who are just like

have wild outsized talent like Einstein or you know, Kerry Fisher or you know, Elvis. They all seem to have fun. But yeah, like I think a lot of these people need or feel like they need this manufactured discontent to like to drive themselves. That's hard. Because if you stop to think about why you're running so hard, you'll freak out. Like, if you stop to think about what this isn't my whole life, then you'll bug out. Yeah. Her first job as a fashion editor was for Viva magazine, which was Bob Guccione's penthouse equivalent for women. Oh, okay.

Are you familiar with Bob Gucci-Oni? No, but I'm about to look up. so he only hired a fashion editor because he was annoyed that Viva's photos of male nudes had attracted a larger audience of gay men than of women. And so he was like, better switch to fashion to chase those gay men away. That is so funny. It's like, yeah, sorry, honey. Gay men like cock more than women.

Like, women want to be with a man, whereas gay men will just gawk. Right. Yeah, yeah. I just want to read this. I solution was like, they got to be dressed better. Yeah. That is so funny.

This is a quote, Guccioni, whose daily uniform consisted of printed man blouses, unbuttoned halfway down his chest and white socks with sandals. Just love that detail. Just a quick sidebar

on who this guy was. He was a publishing magnate. He created Penthouse, helped found Spin, magazine in the early 80s, but also like a sci-fi magazine that ran for 20 years. He had an art collection that was

once appraised at $59 million, but he sold for $19 million to pay off debts. He had like a entire block-sized Manhattan Upper East Side apartment. Wow. But above all, he was a man who did not understand how

then diagrams were. As evidence from the gay men like my magazine, I'll add a fashion section to chase them off for his career in the film industry where he produced like Chinatown the day of the locust, the longest

the longest yard, and then he was like, well, you know what else's movie? Pornography is movie. So I'll produce one of those but for the amount of money that it costs to make movie. Oh shit. It's not pornography. And he gave us Caligula.

Oh. Okay. Which is even, like, wilder than I thought. He made it as an Oscar bait movie. It's written by Gore Vidal and directed by respected director. He then took it away from them and edited in all the hardcore sex scenes. Oh, wow. Which is like that big like bacchanalia, like orgy.

That's, okay. Wow. It needs something. I don't know. I can't put my fingers on it. Oh, right. Massive. Reshoots.

Reshoots, yep. Yeah. It's so funny. I've never seen this. Like I've always known of this movie, but I've never seen this movie. Wow, this is nuts. I've only seen the sex scenes. Yes, that's what I was watching.

In college and people were like, dude, you know about Caligula? And I'm like, no, let me see the sex scenes. I don't know what the rest of the movie's about. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to see. Wow. Yeah, the Wikipedia article is like it has since, even though it was originally critically reviled, deemed illegal in much of the world.

It has since gotten a cult following. And it's like, yeah, among like 18-year-old boys, I think it's like a lot of the cults following. But people say that her spreads, like her Viva spreads actually look a lot like her later Vogue spreads. And she's just like, you know, I'm going to make it awesome because this is what I have the opportunity to do. This is what's in front of me. She doesn't like talking about this part of her career, but I do think it's like one of the most endearing things that she did is she was just like,

yeah, I'm going to work for this porn magazine because that's the job that's hired. Yeah. Are there pictures of it? Like, I just want to see dudes like with a sport coat. Right. Like,

fully erect in it. They're like, got a shawl. I don't think she was doing like the shirtclothed tuxedo jacket. I don't think she was doing the boner shots, but. Oh, what a shame. I know. Wait, so the what,

it was just purely a fashion section. Yeah, she was the fashion editor of, of the magazine. They were trying to make it respectable. I just would have, I'm sure someone had like, hey, Hannah, can I get your take? We're doing like a nude shoot.

What do you think of this firefighter outfit? Yeah. It's garbage. I mean, I'm sure she would just like just destroy. Elevate. She would have to elevate it. I mean, you all have seen like the Leg Avenue, like the slutty, you've seen the slutty Halloween costume.

Oh, sure. They really lack quite a lot of craftsmanship. I've been saying, Mono. I've been saying. It is a, it is a mis- You tell you, your lady, take that off. It's made, it's poorly made. Take it off.

I hate it. I feel like an elevated Halloween costume, like, would do well. Like, if you created a nationwide store where you would get actually good Halloween costumes, add a little Anna Wintour in there. That's real. You got private equities attention, Jack.

I'm just saying. I know. Would we charge him like $600 a costume? Oh, come on. For the bottom half. You know? She's saying like a sexy made outfit that like has like real like tool and like leather accents. Yeah, I'm in.

I mean. Ostrich feather. The sleeve to look at the stitching. You're like, oh, shit. Yeah. I'm in. Viva, you're going to be shocked to hear this Viva shut down. Did not last very long.

Oh, no. But she ends up bouncing around different publishing jobs and ends up. as the creative director at Vogue and then chief editor of British Vogue, this is where she first gets her reputation as nuclear Wintor. And they were up to speed on the Wintor puns at this point. Winter of our discontent was another one.

Oh, these are, sorry, I had to just see what the Viva fashion spreads look like. And they are very like, well done. And then I'm like, of course, it's women's fashion. In my whole mind, I'm like, where's a guy with his ass out, bro? This all makes sense now. Yes, yes. Well done, Anna.

I will say, it does seem like there's a lot of sexism at play at this early part that, like, I'm sure she was like scary and intimidating, aka exactly what people look for from executives when they're men. Yeah, right. But, like, what is her fucking deal, you know? She could be nicer. I'm sure that's what makes it so hard. Like, she probably is, in fact, an asshole. but you have to be an asshole.

And we don't even understand the kind of shitty anti-hero things she's been through. Right, right. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. This is where she really reminds me of Lorne Michaels is in that like they're both these like quiet, like kind of New York media Buddhas. And then everybody like there's this mixture between they're a psychopath and like,

ah, that's just Lauren. They're brilliant. You know, Anna, they're just brilliant. and it's like impossible to tell if it's because people are scared of them or because they're secretly like actually really good at what they do or a little bit of both. But I feel like they're both kind of iconic in a similar way in that, yeah, you only hear them talked about, but you don't really hear that much from them directly. And with Lauren, you like hear he's weird and cryptic, but I feel like if he was a woman, it might be a little bit different. They might not be as fond. Right.

So from this era at UK Vogue, she then finally gets the job that she's been waiting like a decade to do, which you know, just started. And she's like, I will be the head of Vogue. And sure enough, by 88, she is named the editor-in-chief of Vogue. The magazine had begun losing ground to L, which had just dropped. and the appointment was met with some nasty rumors. Gossip columnist Liz Smith falsely claimed that she was having an affair with Condi Nass's chairman.

And like that hit the first day. She like shows up as that her in chief. And in the daily news that day is a story that says. Of her a Lexi Newhouse or something. Yeah. So people are talking about Wintour and Newhouse and the exactitude of their relationship. The rumors are wild. Um,

which is, it's fucked up. Makes sense. Yeah, I mean, like, again, like,

of, of course you're going into shit, like, you have to have your blinders on because there's so much bullshit happening around you, like, she's got to be fucking side new house to get that job. Right.

Right. She rose too quickly. She's got to be, yeah. She's like, I killed all my former bosses to get this job, actually, if you want to know.

Yeah. Mergered people. And they're like, nah, probably fucking someone. That's not the version we like. No, I'm here to admit I've murdered people.

Nah, no way. Murder that dick. Am I right, girl? Yeah. Winter is homo. Winter. Winter. Okay.

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Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So her first issue, she sends it to the printer,

and the printer sends it back and is like, you've made a mistake. Okay. It is so unusual that we can't, we can't believe that this is actually what you're sending us. So I'm going to put in the chat what past Vogue covers look like. There are all these, like, kind of close shots on, like, highly made up models in, like, weight space or, you know, like, that's kind of what you're getting from Vogue up to that point.

And her first cover is this. Ooh, I see, I see. How dare you, Anna, went to. Yeah, exactly. I'm saying above this, I'm saying below this woman's shoulders for once. The new bimbos? Hell yeah. So before her, it's all very, like, highly art directed, highly, like, very airless.

You know, everybody's perfectly made up. And then the cover for her first issue, the model is like walking down the street and she has jeans on. She's wearing a $10,000 bejewed Christian LaCroix jacket. Love their pompal moose seltzer. Delicious. And then that's being paired with a $50 pair of guest jeans.

And people were fucking scandalized. Right. Really? What year is this? Do we know what year? It's 89. Or 80. By the midget, people were scandalized.

No, by the $50 pair of jeans. Oh, I see. By the fact that it was out on the street, that she looked like a real person, you know? Right. And it was this, yeah, it just like completely, it looks completely different from anything that had come before it. It's so funny because seeing it through my lens,

it looks like all the magazines in the 90s. It looks exactly like a modern magazine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a 90s magazine. Yeah. Because all the old ones, I'm like, these look like shitty headshots that would be in like a dry cleaners.

Yes. You know what I mean? They're so stale and cold and there's like no, like it's purely like these people are not alive. Like the subjects of the, like where's this one, you can tell like you're walking down the street, you got your $10,000 hoodie on.

Okay. We've all been there. Yeah. I've all been there. All right. Another magazine cover from her first year that I'm putting in the chat is. So they let,

her release that first one. Oh, yeah. They let her release it. Yeah, yeah. They were like, well, they just thought it was a mistake. They were like, you've made a mistake. Sorry, you sent this picture where the model's eyes are closed. This is great.

This is great. And so also that first year, she puts Madonna on the cover. To me, both of these pictures seem like they'd be discarded. Like the model on the first cover's eyes seem like they're closed. Madonna looks like she might be farting. on the cover of hers. Like, she's, like, giving this, like, smile. But it is, like, definitely attention-grabbing.

Right. You can see there's this documentary, the September issue, where they just go through the process of her putting together. The September, the September issue of Vogue is, like, the most important one.

Uh, it would have, like, 900 pages of ads and shit. Like, it was, like, a phone book. And you get to see her, like, putting it together. And she's, like, going through this photo shoot of, that's like supposed to be

1920s themed. And if you asked me to pick like the one best photo, like that photo is the very first one she cuts. She's just like, no, that absolutely not. And like there, she just like has this sense

of like what's going to work that you know, I don't know. I guess she's a professional or something. Right. I mean, that is always fascinating when people just know what people are going to vibe with. I like this Madonna picture. I'm probably also like red-pilled because I like Madonna, but... And that is what red-pilled means.

Oops. Oops. I get that, like, it's like, it's a who cares picture, which then makes me like it. Does that make sense? That's what it is. Yeah, that's what it is. Look what I can do. I just put a pair of $50 jeans on the cover of Vogue.

Like, people are going to... She also did the Madonna cover out of spite. I'm just going to read... this anecdote from the biography. In Anna's first year, as Vogue at her in chief, she made a decision that was as remarkable then as it would be unremarkable a dozen years later. She put Madonna on the cover, all because of a random encounter. On a flight during that period, the man next to Anna asked her what she did when she told him, he said, that's the most incredible publication. It's so chic, it's so elegant, it represents everything I think of as being very classic and

beautiful. It's Catherine Hepburn. It's Audrey Hepburn. It's Grace Kelly. It would never be Madonna. And she was like, oh yeah, motherfucker. Wow. I took that, which again, like there's that like Michael Jordan like mentality. And I took that personally.

Yeah, and I took that personally. So I don't know. It's, it is the first time that people put celebrities on the cover of these fashion magazines. Wow. And I also hadn't really thought about it, but like the, it kind of makes sense

of Madonna having the Vogue portion of her career. She like broke celebrities into the world of high fashion by appearing on the cover of Vogue. Now, was she on Vogue as a cheeky cross promotion with her song Vogue?

Was that kind of? No, no, it was before. Shut the fuck up. This was 89. She was in Vogue. And then Vogue, that song, I think, was early 90s. Yeah. Yeah. I'll be goddamned. Okay. Yeah. So you see, you're seeing the code, the matrix. I'm so behind it all.

What does it mean? Folk build. What am I saying? I don't know if she hadn't added like celebrities that cover of the magazine. Would somebody have done it probably later? But I don't know if they would have done it quite in the same way. Sure. Yeah. Also, when she's coming up at this time, the magazine world, Miles, you'll have to

me if this is what you experienced at Conday Nast. Conday Nast gave her interest-free loans to put down a mortgage on a home that somebody describes in her biography as being so big. It's like a national park. Jesus Christ. Yeah. I mean, there were expense accounts for sure. There were.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That I was like, I'm sorry, they're buying what with that? And they're like, drugs. I'm like, oh, okay, cool. I like that. Tom Ford said that she would just send her the lookbook for the, people do love drugs. They love it so much.

They're like red-pilled by them, you know? Yeah, they really are. I'm totally red-pilled by drugs. I'm so red-pilled by this motron. Tom Ford would like send her their new, like, looks, and she would just, like, circle them, and he would send those pieces, and she would just like own those now.

And she had an automated clothing rack, like a laundromat in her house. Like share and clueless? Yes, like share and clueless. I wonder if that was, how long, is that like a recent thing or she had, that makes sense, that technology existed back then that she's like, no, I need this for my house now.

Right, right. Charge it to Condé Nest. So in terms of her self-conscious iconography, we talked about the Bob. and how it's trimmed twice a week. And blow waved daily. Then there are the sunglasses. She'll wear them indoors.

She'll wear them at night. She recently didn't wear them and then put them on during some bit. Was it at the Oscars? Or the Golden Globes or something? Yeah, it was one of those awards shows. Entered with them off and then put them on. And we were like, ha, ha, ha, whatever.

It was Anne Hathaway with her. But it was shocking to see her not wearing them. Yeah. Even for a moment. It was like seeing Darth Vader without the helmet on. Truly. You know what the fuck? I mean, not to be like,

not saying she looked like Anakin after being burned up, you know. No, you did. That's what you said. You said she looked like shit and that women should look better. Did you fall in a volcano like Anakin did? Yeah. Did you let Puppeteen get mad at you and shock you too much? No, but it's like that thing where it's like,

you're so used to just those big black frames, the fringe with just like you can't see shit outside of what you. she's really showing you. Yeah. Okay. You can't see shit. And she can't see shit. Like, unless there's some sunglasses,

technology that I'm missing, like, there have to be so many stories of people too scared of her to, like, describe watching her, like, feel her way down the hallway. Right. To, like, take a piss in a broom closet,

you know? Like, she's got to be so confused all the time. Or she's like a bat and she's, like, acclimated. Oh, yeah. You know, like, she's like clicking, like, yeah, she's clicking. She can feel.

regulating, yeah. Yes, she knows how far the wall is based on her burps or hiccups, something like that. Echo location. Yeah, yeah. There you go. Does she have a partner? Does she, has she ever had a partner? Yeah, yeah.

Oh, okay. She was married to a child psychologist for a number of years and they had children together. Where are those kids at? Yeah. B is one of them. That shadow must be so fucking big. They're like, bro, my name is. No way.

Springfield. You think they care? I think she went to law school or something. In the September issue, she's like, I definitely don't want to work in fashion. But everybody says, like, that is one of the things that you are most surprised by about her

is that she's, like, a pretty committed, normal mom and, like, really spend a lot of time with her kids and stuff. But just back to the sunglasses really quickly, she has said, she called the sunglasses a crutch and incredibly useful for hiding her thoughts and feelings. They help me see and they help me not see.

They help me be seen and not be seen. They are a prop, I would say. I think that's cool as hell. I sometimes, you ever wear sun. I've worn sunglasses at a party at night. When you're like a little too cross-fated. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It gives you that little protection of like, I just, yeah,

it makes you feel like, I'm in my own room right now. You can't see me. No one can see me. Yeah, it's something about, you know, sharing your eyes with people, though, too. It's vulnerable. It's very powerful. And, like, to not have that, so much is communicated with your eyes, too. Yeah, I totally get for her.

She's like, I can just throw all my poker face on with my sunglasses. Yeah. A lot of people don't realize she has her eyes on her hands, like the Pan's Labyrinth character. That's why she wears sunglasses all the time. It's just smooth right up there. Yeah. But, yeah, I do think, like, she is, to your point. Poimano about her hair, like, the, and this, she's just very smart in the way of, like, iconography.

She, like, spends her life thinking about what makes things iconic and then just applied that and was like, all right, despite the fact that this is going to be a tremendous pain in the ass, despite the fact that I will be blind for half of my life, I'm going to keep the same haircut and wear sunglasses for half of my life. Yeah. All right. Let's talk about how mean she is. Thank fucking God.

Let's do this. Let's go. So when she first took over Vogue, her scariness wasn't like unprecedented. Her predecessors reportedly had a similar effect on employees. So there is the question of is she mean or is she the most famous person in a mean profession. But there is like an anecdote from Hurricane Sandy where she just expected everybody to be at work. it's drizzling. Oh, yes.

She, so she moved out of her apartment to a hotel near work so that she could, you know, live well and, like, get to work and then expected everybody else to be at work and people were like, I was like climbing over

downed trees in Couture footwear to get there. It feels like they touch on that in the movie then, no? Is that not? Yes. No, yeah, yeah. The movie is basically, honest about this specific aspect.

Yes. Is that the more she's saying it's drizzling? Like with the storm happening outside the window? Oh, yeah. So there is, right, there's a part in the movie where she's trying to get back to New York. Trying to get back to New York from something she's doing with her family in Florida, I think. And she's like caught in a hurricane. Yeah, yeah.

And she's like, get me a jet. That's your job. Famously hard on assistance. will task them with any job she sees fit up to and including finding her lost dog. Oh my God. Yeah, she once lost her dog. The first assistant, and they found it, and then the assistants were dispatched to, like, chip the dog. But the way it works is the first assistant managed the other two,

handled her schedule, and was the primary assistant Anna communicated with. So she would, like, communicate to the first assistant about the second or third assistant, but they were like within your shot. Of course. Of course. Okay. Okay, big poppy. The second assistant liaised with the caretakers and chef at her homes in Manhattan

and Long Island coordinated her film screenings and took care of her dogs. Three golden doodles at this time, all named for characters and to kill a mockingbird. And once one dog. Wait, well, hold on. All named after to kill a mockingbird characters. So what is that? We got boo, Radley. It's got to be boo, got to be Aeticus.

Uh-huh. Then who? I can't. Jim. Jim. Is a Scout? Yeah. Scout, probably.

Oh, sure. Scouts good. I love her going, and where's Boo Radley? Like, fully, not just boo. Like, we got to, it's Boo Radley. Edicus Finch. But it just seems like very, like, she will send her assistance emails with no subject, just and the only text is get me on the phone with this person

or like, I need to see that person or coffee, please. And like, assistants would report having, like, anxiety, like, just waking up in the middle of the night, worried that they've, like, missed emails from her. Like, she also, like, the part of it that, like, the part of her relationship with her assistants from the movie where she's, like, hard on them, but then we'll, like, take care of them.

Like, one assistant quit because she was too stressed out and she, like, set her up with a therapist and followed up to make sure she knew it was okay to leave the office, which is kind of nice, I guess. Of course, she could have just curbed the shitty behavior. Yeah, but also telling someone who's so stressed out by your job that it's okay to leave the office is such a mind fuck. Yeah.

Oh, is you to leave it? Is this too much for you? Wait, but you just said before it felt like I had to be at your be back and call 258, 8, okay, not even 24-7 here. I totally had a boss say that, and it's a lie. Yeah, right. No, it's totally fine. Well, it's like what they mean is it's fine,

but I will never take you seriously again. There'll be consequences. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's this other, like, nice anecdote where one of her assistants was mugged, like running an errand for her, and the assistant came,

and she was like, how much money did they steal? And then just, like, handed her that cat. But I think there's also a level to that anecdote where it's like, okay, now let's get back to work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. So how do I neutralize the thing? Yeah, that's stopping your product

What is it? Like $300? Here, have that. Now go get Boo Radley and make sure he goes peepee. But yeah, morning sounds very much like the devil wears Prada with employees yelling, she's coming,

and then like scrambling to make sure everything looks perfect as she like walks down the hallway. Yeah. To the point that people are so scared of her, she once fell flat on her face while pregnant. She was like still wearing stilettos the whole time she was pregnant. And an intern was like so terrified

that she just like backed around her to like, I'm going to say just passed out from the stress of like, I don't know what to do. Oh, no. Do I acknowledge? Because I wonder, too, they're like, do I fucking act like I saw her fault? Right.

Will that get me fired? Do I start help her? Do I start punching the ground to punish the ground for making a trip? What's the right move? That culture permeates down the org chart because, so when I worked at Condé Nast, I worked for CNE, which was the video digital arm of Condénais. So we made all the videos that went with the magazines. Like we would make 73 questions that Vogue series or stuff for Wired.

And when there were times when like one of the magazine editors would come to set, a lot of the people would get straight. It wasn't even Anna. It would be like four layers below her. But people would still like, it was coming. There's just like this expectation like that just sort of go was going, just running through the culture of that magazine that even someone who was just like a junior editor, but did have people under them

and was like overseeing a shoot, everything had to be perfect. Don't let this person see this. This is how like this is supposed to be. Why is there food here? I got asked once why there was food. At a shoot at a workplace where people were working? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Why is there food here? Why would you bring food to a place like this? Because people are working an eight hour day here. So that is the, I would say that's the thing that is hinted at in the movie but is not nearly as fucked up as it. seems to be in reality, which is like the weight shaming and like fat shaming and just constantly talking like there's this part in the September issue where the cameraman for the documentary, they're like, it would actually be cool if you could like get involved with a shoot like where

we'll like have a model and you like jumping on a trampoline and like it's a really cool photograph and they show it to Anna Wintour and she just like touches his stomach because it's like, a little bit of a punch and she's like, we can't use this. And then turns to him hits his stomach and is like, you should start going to the gym. Jesus Christ. Yeah.

We're like done with that now, right? Like, I feel like we're done. Actually, that's not true. But I, but you know what? Okay, that talk, okay, that culture is still existing and toxic. But I do think now there, there is more media than ever before

that is like, hot people can exist in so many ways. Right, sure, sure, sure. Not on that stage, because that stage is still for those kinds of people. Well, yeah, and also that was another thing, too. Like, most people, like, I would be like, oh, so everyone's white and skinny. That part? White. It accommodates one kind of, I mean, we all know the BMI is a racist construction that was created by Swedish scientists who were measuring very thin, tall Swedish people.

But, yeah, the beauty standard is very Europeanized. and that's a word. Yeah. I remember like in 2020 she had to do like a oh my bad. Y'all noticed that? Oh yeah.

Oh, you guys saw that? Oh, you saw that? Yeah, a lot of white people. Yeah, yeah. Here's the black issue. Right. Her creative director, Andre Leon Talley,

was a black man suggested that she put more people of color in the magazine. She was alleged to say, can someone tell Andre it's not black history month every month. Jesus Christ.

Yeah. There's one cover with LeBron James and Giselle, I think it is, that is fucking, it seems like it's intentionally based on a World War I

propaganda poster where Germans are portrayed as guerrillas, like the down to like the color of the dress. Oh yeah, I remember this. Yes. Yes. It's pretty crazy.

We'll link off to it in the footnotes. Oh, how weird. Yeah. Wait. Oh, how weird. Yeah. I don't like this one bit. No, no, no.

So was she secretly like a daughter of the Confederacy? What's happening? Like, what's happening? I think she was just, I mean, I just think she was somewhere between oblivious and existing in a world of white supremacy and just being like, it's not Black History Month every month, Andre.

And it's like, what the fuck are you talking about? Like, she also put a white model Carly Clause in Yellowface and a Geisha outfit in 2017. All right. All right. Wow, Trailblazer. And then when people were like,

this is a horrible look, she wouldn't cut it because of it's, because it was enormously expensive. Watching the September issue, it's clear. That's never been a thing she wore it. She, like, is constantly doing incredibly expensive things and cutting them. And again, whatever she wanted from the publisher. Like, there was never, no one ever put the brakes on anything she was doing. It caught in it now.

So that's funny. Well, speaking of yuck, yuck, are we going to talk about the recent, the controversy as of this week? Of the Jeff Bezos. Yeah. The Jezossian. Yeah, the fact that now that the Metjala is finally, oh, go ahead. icon.

You are favorite. You buy everything from the Bezos collection. Yeah. Yeah, it's, I mean, there's tons on fat shaming to, like she once had Oprah on the cover. And like in her editor's letter was like, I got Oprah to lose 25 pounds for this.

Like, and, you know, it was just. Ahebolical. She, like, specifically said, specifically said, specifically said she wouldn't hire a fat person, no matter how brilliant an editor they were. Right. So it's just, yeah, there's a lot of fucked up stuff. That culture, again, there were other times people would quote that Kate Moss quote to us, like with food on set.

They're like, oh, oh, no, like, they're like, we don't need food. And then so much like nothing tastes as good as how skinny feels. Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels. Yeah, like, oh my God, really. Jesus Christ. And I was like, the first time I had heard that and I was like, you can't be a serious person right now. Like that may be for you and whatever's going on in Vogue, but like people are working.

And I don't know how it, things would get, there would be a little bit of a culture class sometimes with the people over there. But anyway. Yeah. I don't, yeah, it's hard to say, like the stuff that kind of filtered down from her, you know, the, I think the weight issues,

whatever her issues are with food. and weight are probably, like there was one time where they photoshop the neck fat off of a baby. Jesus Christ. Yeah. Because they knew that she wasn't going to be happy if they were like fat rolls on a baby's neck.

Denying a baby's humanity. Like that is so stupid. Oh God. You fatso, come over here. You know what I hate about a baby. Those little rolls and shit. Oh, I hate that shit. You got to get the dysmorphia started early.

That's right. I'll never learn to hate their body. Right. Yes. I mean, we have a whole section on the devil wears Prada, but I feel like we kind of know what that is. We've seen the devil wears Prada. I will just say it seems like it made her way more.

Like, there were a lot of rumors at the time. It was like Anna Wintour is going to fucking fire anybody who, right. Like appears in this movie or talks to the makers of this movie. and it ended up making her like a massive, massive icon and the sequel just came out last week and made

like $200 million in its first weekend. And it seems like the sequel kind of does a Fast and the Furious thing where, you know, the Fast and the Fury sequels is like, okay, the bad guy from the last one joins forces with the family

and they fight some new Uber bad guy. Okay. It seems like that's what happens in The Devil Wars Prada, too, where, like, Anne Hathaway and Anna Wintor join forces to team up against what it, the bad guy ends up being like an AI tech billionaire, like an Elon Musk type person, which is so, I do think that's, you know, when you look at her contributions and like what she's done for culture, like, I think one thing you could say is it was better.

to have someone like her there trying to advocate on behalf of like beauty and art, then like the world we're heading into where it's just like three billionaires who are just like, I control all media.

Like that would be the one place where you could be like definitely better Anna Wintour. Like we'll miss Anna Wintour in retrospect when it's fucking Elon Musk running the Met Gala. Right. Which makes it so weird that she then let Jeff Bezos be like the head of the Mac now. That's what's so upsetting.

I know that's what it's like, yeah, it's like it's become the bad thing. It used to be the, it used to not be the bad thing. And it's so interesting that Meryl Streep obviously went out of her way to be like, I will not be going. Let's not go. And she is, of course, playing the namesake. That is the one behind this.

It's upsetting. Yeah. Man, when are we going to do the Epstein question? Because we're going to know the answer. We already know the answer. She is. She was definitely in the black book. Wow.

Yeah. She has, like her people, her friends had to keep her from having lunch with Harvey Weinstein like days after the accusations came out. Wow.

Like she was very close with Harvey Weinstein, very close with Dity. Very close with Dadey. I mean, a lot of people were like, Sean John wouldn't be what it was. was without, you know, him being close with Anna Wintour, too. Like, there was definitely access to fashion.

There was calls to boycott the Met Gala last year because of, uh, I know the accusations coming out, uh, and like everybody finding out about what was happening with Dady and her closeness with them. Uh, her boyfriend who she had an affair with that ended her first marriage was this Texas billionaire who was like known to be like problematic at work. Yeah. She, it just seems like she's.

drawn to these horrible men. But yeah, so, Mono, in these episodes, we do like to ask, in a world where this icon exists at the same time as Epstein, would they be in the Epstein files? You know, would Erkel, would Einstein?

Yeah. She's answered. And it's also, like, you can't find shit about it online either. Like that that is power And now besties with Bezos I'm not liking the way I'm feeling And guess what

I'm gonna take it even crazier swing Fashion is stupid Shut up Put on some sweatpants Shut the fuck up Yes wow Some garments look cool Wow that that looks pretty

Is it worth the end of the world No do I care that some idiot Some idiot is wearing it And he has a clock tower on his head. And wow, the theme is clocks. And so, wow. It's made of hair, though. I don't care.

Shut the, leave me alone. What does feel like increasingly, right, just sort of like this unnecessary sort of pursuits that we have given, like, the deep inequality around the world. Like, oh my God. I think that's why that met Gala, too, especially like with this latest one, a lot of people are like, what the fuck are we even doing anymore? What are we doing?

someone, a celebrity who was already a billionaire wore a dress made out of that cost $60,000. Yeah, we're celebrating these evil, evil billionaires. Do we care? Did she have something about Tax the Rich written on her like a funny like dollar bill mask that made a statement about it because then it's okay. Then it's okay. She took over the Met Gala in, I think it was 95,

but like all of the very like elaborate costume-ish nature of what people wear is kind of part of her legacy of that. And also like it being a huge celebrity kind of moment to fuse celebrity and fashion is one of her contributions, I think. Sure. Yeah. Wild. Yeah.

Do people care? Will people actually stop caring about the mechalla? It's funny that there were a lot of calls to boycott it this year. I was telling my, I was like, I tried. I tried Mono, but I couldn't stay away. You mean by just not even looking at the images? No, not going. It was hard for me not to go to the Meggola.

I know when she called you directly. It's just that's where my friends are. That's where your friends are. These people are going to turn around and try to be heroes too, because they're going to turn around tomorrow and just be like, fight the man. It's like, oh, sure, bitch. Shut the fuck up.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, those tickets were such currency that I remember, like, when we were trying to get people to do videos for Condonast, like, and it was like an A-list person who just wouldn't say yes, the fucking red button was tell them they'll get an invite to the Met Gala. Wow. And then they were like, they'll be like, yeah, when, where, how? Wow. Like, it's such a coveted thing in, like, high society still for so many people, especially, like, celebrities who are like ascendant that if, you're. feels like legitimizing in popular culture to be even appearing on that red carpet. And it was, I remember, like, I was one of the weirdest times just, like, trying to,

like, produce a thing and then telling, like, a, like, a manager, they're like, if, you know, like, to show our appreciation for doing this kind of nasty thing, like, we'd also be willing to extend an invite to the Met Gala. And, like, before I even hit send somehow, I got the fucking reply. Yeah. It's a big, it's a big, like the Kardashians for a long time, couldn't get. get invited until Kim got the like Kanye co-sign. And then like that was a big moment for them and a big moment for fans of reality television everywhere.

One person who is banned is Tim Gunn because he, he wrote in his memoir that the most ridiculous thing he's seen in the fashion industry is her being carried down a flight of stairs by her two security guards. And he immediately like started getting calls being like, take it back. tell them you didn't see that. Say you didn't see that. Say you were joking. Say you were joking. And he would not.

And he's allegedly been given a lifetime. He's my hero. Designers. Yeah. We see you, Tim. But she, I mean, that does,

like she tends to be very attracted and, like, friendly with the most powerful, famous people. Like, somehow Serena Williams is, like, her best friend.

Serena Williams has been, like, yeah, I like, called her for advice on my engagement ring and like sometimes I ask her for advice on tennis. It's like, no, the fuck you don't. Yeah. Okay, I was like, I'm willing to admit for something that is aesthetic to deal with things you adorn

your body with. Yeah, for sure. That's probably the best Google chat GPT thing you have. Like, I can just ask Anna Wintor if this shit's pop up. But then be like, what do you think of my backhand? Right. Yeah. Any tips, Anna?

But yeah, that's, I mean, there's, I mean, there's. There's so much more, but I think we get the point. That's, that's Anna Winter. And again, powerful because you know if you put that up, you put the mod Bob wig on with the big frames. Everybody knows who you want. It's only one. It's only one.

That's right. Damn. Mono. Such a pleasure having you. Any last questions and last thoughts? Holy hell. No, I just, I'm so curious to what's going to come of this Willy Wonka level. anti-hero enemy.

I'm kind of not a fan right now in this moment. But yeah, no, I'm curious to see what's going to happen with her. I'm guessing she's going to be rich for a couple more years. I think she's probably going to be all right. I mean, I do think

her fame is really what's driving the devil where it's Prada. It's like people loving that first movie and how well, how good the first movie was. but it's like the power of her icon, you know? Right. I think we're seeing that in a lot of places. Yeah.

Right. And then like to a certain point when you reach that level of icon, you sort of cease to become a human being that is governed by the same laws and rules of our mortal world. It's sort of like, then you're just this other thing. Deity. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You can just derive a singular meaning from. Like, because even all the other stuff about like, you know, creating terrible beauty standards and excluding like black models or whatever, those kinds of things, just who she was friends with. People are like, yeah, but the thing is this.

The thing is front row at the fashion show. The thing is the hair. The thing is the glasses. And it's odd. Like at that point, it's like we're not looking at a person anymore. It's just like this, you know,

the idea. Yeah. Yeah. And like will people ever be able to look away from the glamour of the Met Gala and zoom out and say, no, we can't support this. Or are we just too red-pilled by... By like the glamour of it all. Like, people are just like,

I can't let go of this Disney fantasy. And even though I know it is fueled by everything evil, I still need it. I still need to believe in this little glamorous fantasy. Right. Yeah, I don't necessarily... Like, I've heard people describe fashion is like draping our daily lives in like art and beauty.

And like it from that standpoint, sure. Like I think that's, that's a thing to, to defend. I just feel like, first of all, it doesn't need to be only for wealthy people and it doesn't need to make everybody feel terrible

about how they look, you know? But I do think this latest devilware's product sequel is smart to be like, okay, that where like there's creativity and art in the world or not where it's death and Bezos

and fucking Elon Musk and AI and it's like well yeah I guess I do vote Anna Wintor in that in that election I got to choose from yeah yeah yeah I think we go

I choose you I have to pick an evil starter Pokemon yeah yeah yeah wait until she turns into Win Trox oh that would be awesome Her, like, Bob gets sharp at the ends.

Yeah. Like it gets becomes a little knives. Exactly. Exactly. This is awesome. Okay, I'm back in. And we're back. I didn't know her Pokemon evolution.

Sorry. Mono, where can people find you, follow you, all that good stuff? Yeah. At Mono Agapian. At my name. And, yeah, listen to, I have an amazing podcast about drag race called Drag Her Podcast. Tis the season. There you go.

If you want to celebrate fashion on a more equitable. level, queer people making bullshit out of paper and like pie, what are they called, pipe cleaners. Go listen to Drag Her. We talk about drag race. We talk about whether you like drag or not. It's a really dumb fun time. And listen to We Love Trash with Betsy Sodaro. We're covering trashy movies. And in May, we're doing which bitch may covering which movies, witch lore, all that stuff. Which bitch may. Isn't that dumb? It's so great. It's funny.

It's May that makes it so funny. Which bitch May? You're like, oh, right. Yeah, yeah. Yes, of course. Nothing to do with May, but we're like, yeah, that's what we'll call it. No, yeah. Miles, where can people find you?

Find me everywhere at Miles of Gray. What else? 420-day fiancé and Ain't it footy? Ain't it, though? You can find me in the No, no, no, no, no. No-Book. which I'll be coming back with. In a moment, hot new Mr. Bean updates.

Oh. And my closing thoughts on Anna Wintour in a moment. They say abs are made in the kitchen. Cool, but who has time for three hours of meal prep and a fridge full of Tupperware? That's why I started using Factor. Factor delivers fresh, never frozen, ready to eat meals that are dietitian designed

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Debt? Consolidate your debt with a loan from fig. No hassle, no judgment. Borrow better with fig. Visit fig.ca. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman,

help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. There's the worst singer in the group. The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard,

uh, you only got in because your parents. made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yardt. They're open.

Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle age, one erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Humor me.

I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, that was our Anna Wintour episode. Thanks to Mono Agapion, thanks to Miles Gray. And of course, thanks to J.M. McNabb for the research on this one. This is the No, no, no, no, book dump. And as promised, sometimes we will go back and add something to a previous episode.

And we do have a correction to the Mr. Bean episode. We already mentioned it in a regular episode of TDZ. But it is important, if you listen to the Mr. Bean episode, that I am. inform you that in keeping with the many, many women who apparently want to fuck Mr. Bean. And the quotes from the ground of that Toronto Mall appearance that almost caused a disaster of just like Mr. Bean love causing like a massive human crush. These are direct quotes from the Toronto Star article. I want him, one woman told the Toronto Star, he's my life and I want him to have my baby

another declared. Those women apparently aren't weird. We are weird for not immediately intuiting the raw sexual charisma of Rowan Atkinson. So yeah, in the Mr. Bean episode, as we're getting to the end of that episode and talking about why he apparently hated

playing Mr. Bean so much and why he's so worried about cancel culture as somebody with a largely victimless brand of comedy, we noticed you know, Googling and talking at the same time sometimes leads to errors. and we noticed that there was something with James Acaster and his girlfriend and a girlfriend leaving somebody, and we're like, oh, maybe he's mad because James A.caster took his girlfriend.

And Christy Yamaguchi, man, one of our great listeners, great A.K.A. writers reached out and noted that it wasn't James A.caster who stole Mr. Bean's girl. It was Mr. Bean, aka Mr. Snatcher girl, who stole the girlfriend of the much younger James A. Castro. James A.caster talks about this in a very funny stand-up bit. But yeah, Mr. Bean's not mad about anything. I mean, he's mad about cancel culture because he's an older, successful white guy, and that is just a thing that happens to them. He doesn't like playing Mr. Bean, presumably, because it's the one time he's not fucking.

There is no pathos. There's just Mr. Bean being an undeniable sexual dynamo all the way down. So thanks to Christy Amaguchi, man, for pointing that out. On to the Anna Wintour notebook dump. We didn't spend a lot of time on her politics, which are pretty interesting. Her biography opens with her crying after the 2016 election, but she does immediately schedule a meeting with President Trump. And the book is like, because of course, she's the Pope of the Church of Power and Influence.

Of course, she wants a meeting with the new president. I will say there's something vaguely Trumpy about her. I guess I think sticking with the same very elaborate haircut outside of time and fashion that requires a lot of upkeep every single morning. And of course, in keeping with her preferences for the Jeff Bezos's, the Jeff Bezai of the world over your Tim Guns. She once had Melania Trump on the cover of Vogue before she married Donald Trump, which is crazy when you see what, What a zero Melania Trump is in that documentary? And how uncool he obviously is at his core. Just proximity to power is literally the only excuse.

The Devil Wears Prada two hinges on her writing a puff piece about a fashion company that's actually using sweatshop labor. I haven't seen it, but I do just want to note that there is a real world version of that that didn't get the amount of attention that the puff piece in the Devil Wears Prada does where it's almost like it's going to take down her whole magazine empire because she wrote

this puff piece. In reality she wrote a puff piece or Vogue did a puff piece on Asma Assad, the wife of Bashar al-Assad. They ran a profile of her right as the Syrian uprising was happening and in response

to the murder and human rights violations committed by the very people that Vogue was like, so stylish, so chic. So this is from an NPR article about that story. Back in March 2011, the magazine ran a glowing profile of Asma Assad, just as the uprising began. In the lead, the Assad is called the freshest and most magnetic of first ladies.

So Anna went to our head to come out and be like, we don't agree with the values of the Assad regime. We just liked that she was thin and well-dressed, I guess. But this is also just another anecdote from that NPR story about the Vogue story. NPR writes, we'll note one other odd thing about this Vogue piece. The magazine ran one picture of the Assad's playing with their children, except that Buck, the journalist, told Melissa, that the children she saw during her reporting were not those in the picture.

It brings up a lot of questions. biggest is whether the magazine knew of the switch and ran the photograph regardless. What the what? What? They had fake children there for the photo shoot or they had fake children there for the interviews. Yeah, I don't know. In keeping with Anna Wintor's habit of asking people to Photoshop baby fat off the neck of

a toddler, maybe Vogue was just like, uh, Anna's not going to like these, these uggos that are your actual children. You're a dictator, aren't you wanting you? Why don't you dictate up some cuter kids there, buddy? All right. One of the anecdotes about her sunglasses that gets told is from the staff of Pitchfork, the music review website, which basically got liquidated and folded into GQ a few years back. The staff member said,

Anna Wintour, seated indoors at a conference table, did not remove her sunglasses while she was telling us that we were all about to get canned. that anecdote reminded me of this thing called the Peter Principle, I think I've talked about before on the show. But this is the theory of corporate leadership and American capitalism essentially, where people do a good job and get promoted until they're in jobs they aren't good at. Like, good salesmen? Well, now you manage salesmen. Now you have a completely different job that doesn't even contain any of the same skills as you had. before. And in the case of Anna Wintor, she got famous for being good at being the fashion editor of a magazine while being obsessed with fashion. And, you know, I think she's probably still good at those parts of her job, but they're like, what do you want to do with this hipster authority on music? She's like, I don't, I don't know, folded in with GQ. I don't know. Leave me alone.

But speaking of the parts of her job that I'm assuming she's still good at, effective at, I don't know if it's good for overall humanity, but I will say that the Met Gala was a thing I vaguely associated with her, but it is a good example of her merging the world of celebrity and fashion. I now picture celebrities as glamorous, I think largely due to fashion magazines and things like the Met Gala. I'm telling you, look back at celebrity appearances in like the 70s and 80s. They dress like people. I think she loves. largely did that. But as to, you know, her being good at her job, there's an anecdote from the Met Gala where she wants a historic Chinese artifact for the Met Gala. And the People's Republic

of China is like, no, that's stupid. And that's where someone like me is moving on to option B. She flies to China and sits down with the Chinese government and convinces them to give her what she wants. So, yeah, that's just one of those scenes that you've, I feel like would be in the devil wear his Prada. And then I do just want to reiterate a tremendous exemplar of the two pieces of business rule of iconography with their sunglasses and Bob haircut. But yeah, the two pieces on your face is undefeated.

You pick the right two pieces of business and you become indelible. Deer stalker and pipe, I know who that is. Hockey mask and machete. You know, it's just, it's, Reflects it. Stupid Santa Hat and Beard, pompadour and leisure suit,

massive blonde wig, massive boobs. Our brains need the two-factor authentication. I feel like she knew that and she wrote it all the way from magazine editor, a job which I didn't know you could be famous for doing that. And now she is the subject of a

certified blockbuster movie franchise about how good she is at Serving Cunt. And speaking of Serving Cunt, something that came up in the research here over and over, and is actually coming up in the research for our next icon, Steve Job, is the fact that in the world of business, it does seem to have been a life hack to treat people like shit. There's this part in her bio where her co-workers

described their relationship with her as like containing moments of warmth where she seems to be friendly, only for her to be like inexplicably cold and distant the next time they see her. I think this is a direct quote. She went bowling with one of her editors and her daughter and she actually wore the bowling shoes and everything. They would have these friendly moments, but when they'd get back into the office, it was like it had never happened. That's called nagging. A generation of men were taught to do that by a sociopath and a Dr. Sooth had. But I feel like a lot of these CEOs who are just these, like, legends are just doing like very basic street grade manipulation tactics. Trump came up for me at this part again

for the same reason where it's like, I can't understand why people trust them. I think we inherently assume they must be telling the truth if they're willing to be that means. And Like, this is one of my favorite insights that I've learned while researching the main daily zeitgeist in the last year is that some people are just so different on the inside of their minds, but we, you know, I think we all kind of know that in theory, but like inherently we want to believe that we're all, like, all of our brains work the same. I learned it from that article that I've talked about a bunch about. people with Afantasia, people who can't picture images in their brains, and they don't have, like, they don't have image-based memories. And the surprising thing is that most of the people who they profiled who have this thing where, like, when they close their eyes, they can't picture your face. Their brain just doesn't have that ability. But most of these people didn't realize they were different from anyone else. They thought that when people talked about picturing

something in our mind or counting sheep. They thought we were speaking a metaphor because I think we just don't inherently grasp how different we are inside our minds. And I think that's true of most of us. We assume everyone else is more or less like us. So if these CEOs are being mean to us, it's like, well, they must really mean that shit. They must be telling the truth because the only way I'd ever say something, some crazy

shit like they just said is if I like really, really meant it. And it's like, no, their inner lives are just completely different from yours. They have what ends up being an advantage in our broken, broken system because they either, either they don't feel empathy the same way you do, or they process it in a different way that makes them compulsively act in a way that, you know, most of us would never act. And that most of us reflexively interpret as, wow, they must be telling the truth. They must be really smart and see something that I don't. But yeah, I think about this with Trump a lot when I'm like,

why do so many people reflexively trust him when he's both demonstrably wrong about everything all the time and mean to most people? And I think it's like because he's so mean. Anyways, that came up a lot for me with Anna Wintour. And it's coming up a lot in the research for next. week's icon. We're going to continue with our theme of corporate icons and then end that trend because fuck corporations. But next week is Steve Job, Apple CEO, Pixar CEO, just a legendary run. And then the thing you come away from his biography with is primarily, what a complete asshole. So yeah,

we're back next week with that. Hope you have a great weekend. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Rate and review it. And we'll talk to you next week. Bye. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way

with your favorite therapist and host, Keer Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability

that does not mean that you need to, Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. My mother-in-law spent years sabotaging our relationship until Karma made her pay for it. All right, Sophia, tell me about how we started this story. She moved in for two weeks, lasted five days, left a mess, and then pressed her ear against their bedroom door and burst in screaming. When kicked out to a hotel, she called her son-in-law's workplace, pretending his partner had been rushed to the hospital by ambulance. She faked a medical emergency? And spoiler, that was just the beginning.

To find out how it ends, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.