The Daily Zeitgeist - Icon #23 - Steve Jobs: Stink Different.

Episode Date: May 18, 2026

In this edition of the Iconograph, Jack and Miles are joined by comedian/podcaster Kyle Ayers to talk about the guy who envisaged the device you are likely listening to this podcast on: Steve Jobs! They'll explore his core trauma, his iconic Issey Miyake fit, his inimitable stench and much more!  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of I Heart Women's Sports. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves,

their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Hello, the internet, and welcome to this spin-off episode of Darnaley Zykeyes. Yes, that we're calling the iconograph. Instead of looking at the Zykeyes through current events on Monday morning, we're looking at Zykeyes through the powerful pop culture deities that are our

icons. We use them to create meeting, meaning. Meeting. We use them to create meetings with our Apple softwares. I guess that is true. We use them to create meaning. Also, we use them to build identity. We use them to invent a phone that's so cool and a type of person so annoying that together

they broke the world. That's right. This week, we're talking about Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs. Looking at Kyle just to make sure it jobs. I'm holding up the letter. Nothing else. Steve Jobs.

The adventure of the iPhone and the inspiration for thousands of tech bro, founder, bros. I'm joined as always by my co-host, Mr. Miles Gras. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, Steve Job. Hey, thank you to my man, Steve Jobs. To think also that podcasting through the Apple, like operating system is also a huge.

This industry can also live and die by that. He don't get to his flaws so fast. that's right. Let's let it cook a little. Okay. Miles were thrilled to be joined in our third seat by a very funny stand-up comedian, writer, actor, producer, creator of boast rattle, a compliment contest. I've never seen a podcast where famous comedians rewrite classic movies

they'd never seen. You can and should go stream his special happiness. Welcome back to the show, The Hilarious Kyle. Kyle. And also Apple Store employee for nearly a decade. Oh shit. Really? Yes. Genius? I've seen this man while he was alive.

No. Really? So I felt so appropriate. In the flesh? Did you bring that up? I don't know if you could go that far, but in the skin. Yeah, yeah. Oh, no. It was close to the end. Wait, where was this store? Apple store, Fifth Avenue. In Manhattan, where it's a corner 59 street.

And he would just come through? Well, that's like a big one time. It's the store he designed. Was that the one that's like the big cube? Big Cube underground store. This motherfucker loves a big cube. He loves a good cube. A good part about a store in a high traffic area, one entrance. It's really good.

Oh. It helps. One spiral staircase in and out. Right, right. We got to simplify. So I'm happy to be here and talk about this guy. Oh, this is great. Did you know this?

That he worked at that up? Yeah, of course. I know everything. I do all. Everything is intentional. Everything is done with purpose and intention. Right. I had no fucking clue.

That's crazy. I'm freaking out right now. He's typing K-Y-L and seeing what the L-check fills in. Jacks in me and said, oh, thank fucking Christ. You know something about Steve-Jah. Okay, great. I'm here for the Amelia Earhart episode making stuff up. I knew her.

Yeah, knew her. I'm one of the crabs. That's really helpful because I did not do any research for this episode. What's this guy's deal? Steve Jones. Great dad, worked in tech. Great dad. The man, the man inspired.

upwards of a style. Yes. Yeah. Uh-huh. And quite a style. That was. And the last style that was. Um,

so there's this book, Infinite jest, uh, which I've read, okay. The first page of like dozens of times. I always try to start. Still on the first page.

Yeah, I never, I never get too deep. I do get to the part, though, there's a technology in the book where it's a video, like a film that's so good

that like people watch it. Like everyone who starts watching it goes missing because they like can't stop watching it. They just like are discovered in their piss and shit. Just watching it over there. Yeah, he's watching it. Oh, okay. And I think if you showed me in 2007 what the modern world looked like today

with people just like on their phones in restaurants, like not looking at each other, that I'd be like, what the fuck? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What happened? But like that's, I still remember, like I, In last week's episode about Anna Wintour, we started with her most iconic thing,

which isn't really her. It's the Searulian monologue in Devil Wears Prada. And I was like trying to come up with the most iconic Steve Jobs moment. And I think it's got to be the introduction of the iPhone. Even though it's not a thing that I really watched when it happened. But it was that image though. Yeah, it's just an image of him holding this device from like 20 years in the future. in his hand and then like a month later it's in everybody's it's what you reference when you see

any other tech presentation on a black wall with self like uh serving applause every five or six seconds it's like this guy's doing a stand-up at dynasty it's such self-serving applause over laughter such inside baseball but sometimes claptor is sad that's right uh yeah that stuff isn't good it's true yeah um not gonna laugh but i will make some kind of sound with my body yeah oh yeah I mean, yeah, that was such a massive moment and such an interesting, it's such a summation of who he was where, who he was where it was like, nothing entirely new, but I'm holding it. Right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it changes everything. Yeah. And also watch when I do this, it goes, wee, when I swipe down. Yeah, check this. I'm drinking a beer. I'm drinking a beer. Oh, the early app.

No, the first apps. Yeah, yeah. Ham horn. Ham. Still one of my favorite. I know, but then they. the damn copyright. I remember that was like a day.

Or did someone own ham? Yeah, because it's from 30 Rock. It's a 30 rock. Oh, yeah. Okay, that makes sense.

Then it just turned into like a generic voice actor being like, ham. And you're like, no. That's not what I'm looking for. Ham. Hey, I have royalty free ham the app.

If anyone wants it. It's a dollar. It's just me saying ham. With ads. In between the A and the Am, an entire ad place for candy brush. This one, I kind of say it in a southern accent.

Ham. Four syllables. Hi. I had misremembered that as he did a presentation then was like, oh yeah, one more thing. And then brought out the iPhone. That didn't happen. That was just like a combination of things.

The biggest thing that he did a one more thing presentation and a Steve's note, just reading his biography, I'm like fucking Steve Jobs framed. I'm like, well, top five Steve's notes have to be. That's what they called his keynote presentation. Steve notes. Wow. Biggest thing he ever presented in, oh yeah, one more thing was, you're wearing on your wrist right there.

Wow. The watch? The Apple Watch. When did he do that? That was at one of his keynotes? Just last year. Yeah. It's crazy, man.

Whoa. It actually might have been, that timing might not work out. It might have been a one more thing done by Tim Cook. I'm not sure. But anyways. That's kind of important. We're not worrying about it. Let this man job.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm trying to make that catch on. Yeah, I don't know. Like, in terms of iconic moments, I feel like it's, it's kind of interesting that for somebody as big and important as an iconic, like both of his movies fucking bricked.

Oh, yeah, I didn't even see. Yeah. I remember, like... Ashton Coucher one was, like, just, he wasn't pulling it off as a Halloween costume. That felt like a made-for-television movie. Right, very distinctly. And I was, like, excited for a...

I was in the, you know, I was working there. and I'm like very much and I worked for Apple in college as well which would have been like the aughts into 2010 and then I worked there until like 2016 so like for a long long long time it was it felt a little bit

a little bit sopranozy where you're like did I get in at the end of a good thing do you know what I mean everyone sort of starting to change and the culture is altering but he had this like gravity and this like sphere they have a phrase for it

where it's just sort of like he will manipulate his reality until it is reality well the phrase is gaslighting but it's like reality distortion Reality story. They always call it.

I think Walter Isaacson might have even coined that term in his documentary. It was the people who, yeah, it was the people who worked with him at Apple specifically started using it. And like it was just common. It's from a Star Trek episode.

Okay. But they're like, this guy is such an energetic and charismatic and persistent liar. Yeah. Wow. That you hanging out with him, like your reality starts to change.

And then you go home and you're like, what the, Like, he's almost not lying because you will then work 98 hours that week and make it in reality. Have the phone done this week. We'll have the phone done this week. The phone's done this week. And you're like, well, meanwhile, there's union dispute happening on the back end of the phone getting done or whatever. Yeah, yeah.

The people who worked with him and with regards to the reality distortion field compared him to Rasputin, like, his eyes were crazy. Made you feel nuts. I mean, I've never, I've never met Rasputin, but like, I know. from like, you do know everything about me. No, he's also like very like skinny and haunting man. Yeah.

And like intimidating with no physical gravitas at the same time. Also, he probably knows something. Like when Mr. Burns was glowing in the forest kind of vibe. Yeah. Yeah. How tall was it?

Rasputin? Yeah. Uh, 6-8. Oh, shit. Okay. If you were a Rasputin,

Bin Laden, NBA, street duo, you could be running. serving it up. I don't know how tall Steve Jobs was. You said he saw him in the fuck. This was a hunched sitting man. You didn't.

You didn't say, hey, stand up. Back to back. Back to back. We had this pencil markings on the side of the concrete wall to see how tall he had grown over the years. They actually went out for his lies, though. Yeah. Oh, also something Rasputin looked like he smelled like shit,

Steve Jobs, as we will learn. One of the worst smelling humans. Oh, really? Yeah, nonstop. Let's get to that. Let's get to that. All right. We'll hop into his bio.

I forget about it. It's for really lack juice. So this dude's stunk. His dude's stanky. He's adopted. If you did watch the Danny Boy L. and what's his name? Aaron Sorkin film Steve Jobs.

Like this is like a central thing. And it's also in the Isaacson biography. Like he is adopted. And at certain points you're like, this seems overblown. He might just be an asshole, but there are certain anecdotes where you're like, man, he really, like, didn't, never got over, uh, being adopted. Um, oh, man, he's adopted and maybe the luckiest in adoption person in the history of the world, uh, his parents are, his biological parents are both like Brad students. Um, they later get married and give birth to an award-winning author

named Mona Simpson. Um, so wherever you fall on the like nature, nurture thing, like, their kids have like, you know, some genetic brainpower. And then they immediately ship him to the location on the globe where they're about to be like minting billionaires in like 20 years, you know? Stanford. Yeah, like the valley, the Silicon Valley. Yeah, yeah.

And Enino. Yeah. The valley, exactly. Brendan was frozen. Yep. He gets loving like salt of the earth parents, the jobs. family. And he also gets like a, the perfect name for an iconic CEO job. Yeah.

You know, Trabos. If he'd been called boss man, I feel like it would have been too, two, two on the house. Boss man. Boss man. Boss man. Uh, it's boss baby's father. Yeah. Boss man. Um, but, uh, yeah, his mom decided to give him up for adoption because her dad is a diehard Catholic who's like, uh, first of all, you're not allowed to marry someone who's not Catholic. Duh. And also, I'm dying of cancer and about to give you a bunch of money if you can just like not piss me off for the next say nine to 12 months.

Foreshadowing. Wow. And she's like, oh, fuck. Oh, no. And she actually, like, kind of drags her feet on the adoption because she's like, maybe I can steal this kid back through the court. And losing Isaiah style? One of the theories that is in the.

Steve Jobs movie is that his mom holds off on, like, loving him for a year because it's like still in the courts or his adopted mom holds off on loving him. And so like he's unloved as a child. And that's why he is like broken as a man. Oh, because she was like, I don't want to get too invested and then they take you away. I think that's fucking wild. Yeah. Keeping my love powder dry right now. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. Yeah. Just sucking her teeth a lot as a baby. So when they first go to the adoption agency, a couple is found a lawyer and his wife. But when she delivers a boy instead of a girl,

they like backed out. And you got to feel like that couple is like, whoops. Yeah. Like, you know. They thought it was going to be a girl? Yeah, they thought it was going to be a girl for some reason. Was that just based on like Catholic,

supernatural chicanery? I wonder if they know it's him, if they grew up there be him. You know what? With his pettiness, I bet he found the couple that passed on the same. him when he was one day old. Yeah.

It's like I had your name tattooed on the bottom of my foot. They're like, please don't foreclose on our home. They're like, no, this guy just bought it. They're like, hey, you guys look like you're in a bit of trouble, huh? Get the fuck out. I own this place now. He's a crazy anecdote later about him buying a house out from under somebody. Oh, we'll get to.

Wow. Okay. Perfect. Yeah. I mean, I have to assume other people get into parenting in the hopes of adding to their family's net earnings. And if you fumble that bag. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, he probably would have. That's like drafting Sam Booie. I don't know if the numbers in front of me. Sorry. I do think he ended up. I don't mean to look directly at you. My grandfather drafted Sam Boevi over Michael Jordan.

A little inside. Yeah. Yeah. You got to wait the long game and see how far is that. How are Sam Buie's eyes looking? Yeah, yeah. Right? Are they bright yellow?

You never know. You never know. They're like way worse. They have little Michael Jordan's in them with little yellow eyes. So he is, he claims that his biological parents, they were my sperm bank and egg bank. That's not harsh. That's just the way it is. His sister, a famous novelist, Mona Simpson, is the reason that Homer's,

mom is named Mona. She was married to a Simpsons raider who named Homer's mom after her. So little fun fact. Wait, so this is Jobs' biological sister? Biological sister who she went and found him. Wow. Yeah.

Okay. I bet he didn't resent her general happiness. Right. I bet they were, although they ended up being like good friends. But yeah, who knows? So here's some quotes about him and how he dealt with being adopted.

He who is abandoned is an abandoner, says Chris Ann Brennan. She would know she's his high school girlfriend, on and off again, girlfriend in the 20s, in their 20s, who got pregnant when Jobs was 23. And for years, Jobs refused to admit that the baby Lisa Brennan Jobs was his. And there's no signs that he knew. There was no large product lines named after her. There was no most famous Apple product of the 20th century that had her namesake on it or anything. Yeah, Lisa, the Lisa. He named a product after her, and then she was like,

oh, you named a product after me as a five-year-old. And he was like, no, it's not. It means something different. Wait, he really did? Apple's like biggest, biggest probably, at least until like his return to Apple on the second and it was successful product. Right, right. Wow. Okay. Unrelated to the daughter he didn't have.

Yeah, yeah. They made up a fake acronym. It was like local integrated systems something. Yeah, yeah. daughter. Yeah. A daughter. Andy Hertzfeld was a close friend of Steve Jobs, and I love this quote.

The key question about Steve is why he can't control himself at times from being so reflexively cruel and harmful to some people. Wow. That goes back to being... This is his good friend. Yeah. This is one of his good friends. That goes back to being abandoned at birth. The real underlying problem was the theme of abandonment in Steve's life.

Wow. Yeah. If you're... I can only imagine what it was like if for an engineer who thought about quitting on him. Right. Like what that would do to him? He's like, you're going to fucking quit on me, you motherfucker. That's why he just fired everybody right away. Oh, yeah. Might as well. Before you leave me.

Yeah. Oh. So he grows up in Silicon Valley in the 60s and 70s. And it's a time where the microprocessor and the internet are invented world changing companies like Gullet Packer were launched in a garage. There's, and he's definitely a product of his environment. It's just, you know, buzzing with technological innovations. He also grew up in the hippie San Francisco Bay and immersed himself in music, drugs and Zen Buddhism. But I do just, this is like one of those things that gets, you know, we have, we tend to understand history as like this great man, especially in America.

We want to have the great man theory of American capitalism. and it's just like all these guys who have a million times more money than everybody else. It's like there's always some stroke of luck, like just like a historical stroke of luck of being like, yeah, I was like at my high school, we had the invent computers club that we were all part of. And like any other. Jimmy Hewlett and Eric Packer went to my school and their dad's funded us. If you live literally anywhere else, the only way you got access to a computer was like being in the, the, you know, a science department of like a major university.

And they were like the size of a fucking room. Oh, like how Bill Gates was. Yeah. Yeah. It would just be a regular projector and a kid would be behind it going, to make it seem like a computer. There's something to be like the American story of starting a company in a garage. Because a lot of Apple started in a garage.

I don't know if I'm like it. And they were like, talking about Hewlett Packard starting in a garage. Amazon starting in a garage. The way the world has changed. It used to be like, oh, they were so broke. Right. They started, and now I'm like, they had a garage. Like, it's like changed the point where a garage is a high status symbol.

Was that a rental? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You had a free standing home as a rental? Where'd the cars go? And the one other kids sleep. Yeah. That's right. Yeah.

They do end up doing some garage stuff at the Jobs' house. But it's, it has been kind of overblown. It's just like everybody needs to have that portion of their story. That is such a, like, you're talking about Anna Winter. It's like, the thing you're referencing for her is a fictional eye. retelling of something in a movie. Right. It is sort of the lore.

Right. He handled his own lore really well. One of the early life myths around him is that he had dyslexia and struggled in school. This is kind of in keeping with like our Einstein episode where they were like, Einstein actually flunked third grade math. And he was like, no, in third grade, I believe I had calculus mastered. Steve Jobs was very smart. Steve Jobs, cut from his high school basketball team.

People don't know. Steve tall. At one point, they like tested him and were like, you should be like five grades ahead. He's very smart, but he looks like, as an adult, he looks at how, like, somehow like a kid who was five grades ahead. He just might look at him like, here he wants.

Yeah, he has like sort of brat energy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And not in the fun brat summer way. Not the Charlie X, X, X. Yeah, yeah. I can imagine him in neon. Yeah. Neon green.

I think it would kill him because it's too bright than black. I don't want to keep harping on how he looked at the end. He was bored so he got into playing pranks. He and his friends posted signs for Bring Your Pet to School Day, which like didn't exist and then like laughed as everybody had pets. That's a good prank. It's like a very good break actually to where I'm upset about it. Yeah, yeah.

They also let put a small explosive device under a teacher's chair. The pranks have escalated from pets. Small explosive. There's a word for that. IED. Yeah. Bomb, I guess, yeah. It's definitely like some of the stuff is like, oh, that's like a fun prank and some of the stuff is like not far from the like dark triage childhood behavior.

They funded a flight school in the Middle East. Yeah. He was young. Went nowhere, but. Yeah. Some of the stuff is like, oh, that's an early symptom of a serial killer. there are multiple occasions in his biography where he says his teacher or like a person

who helped him early on he's like, I think I would have ended up in jail. And like on one hand, that's like a thing that people like to say. On the other hand, I don't think he's wrong. Like if he hadn't found a way to channel his gifts of like charisma and manipulating people

and like risk taking and being a CEO. Do you think there's something to you saying it's like serial killer early serial killer tendencies but when you are fertilized and able to blossom or given resources, you become a CEO or a billionaire. And if you are left to your own accord,

you become a serial killer. But it's like you come to a fork in the road and in one direction is resources. And in the other direction is like scarcity. Right. And this is what happens. They've given CEOs like tests for like personality tests and they always test way, way, way higher

than the general population for what they call the dark triad, which is narcissism, Machiavellianism or manipulation, and psychopathy. So I don't know that he ever... I can see that. I love that the spectrum is kind of the same for like kids in the hood and kids growing up in like Silicon Ballots. Like, I could have been dead or in jail.

Right. And Steve Jobs was like, because I was doing wild pranks. Yeah. And I was just way too conniving and smart. But setting off IED. Yeah. Had a bomb to school before it was cool. Exactly. Don't do it.

In the eighth grade, he joined the Hewlett-Packard Explorers Club. This is not something that was available in other parts of the country. You don't say. Which is a group of students that met once a week at the HP cafeteria to chat with engineers, and he saw his first desktop computer and fell in love at this point. In the eighth grade, he's building a device called a frequency counter and realizes he's missing a part. So he looks up the phone number for Bill Hewler. and who's the CEO of HP calls him at his house.

They end up talking for 20 minutes. And Hewlett gives him a job to work, like for the summer to work on the plant where they manufacture frequency cars. Just like, just get on SNL. Yeah, yeah. I think that's just said to everyone. When are you going to be on SNL?

You should write for that. Just like that, huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just give him a call. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nobody's tried that before. It's the same when you listen to Conan talk comedians. He's like, how'd the older comedians?

Like, how'd you get into it? He's like, I hounded Frank Azaria twice. Yeah, right, right, exactly. My cousin used to cut Frank Marshall's grass. That's right. What? How? What the fuck is?

In an apartment? This leads, like, it's funny, these anecdotes are the same reason why you have these people, like these dudes on Twitter who are just begging Elon every day to notice them. Yeah. Like, that's the new version of it. Good point, sir. Yeah.

Colon, tip of the cap, colon. One of his. interactions at that time. I remember telling one of the supervisors, I love this stuff. I love this stuff about like making the computer birth. And then I asked him what he liked to do best. And he said,

to fuck. He's an a trade. All right. Yeah. Unfortunately, and I know how it plays off, he's still doing good in my book. Between this and the pet prank.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The pet prank is an all-timer. Yeah. The pet prank is good. Wait, but the engineer told him that he,

or that's not the not the CEO of HP yeah one of the engineers assembly line not an engineer like a guy who worked on so he was like oh you seem like a sharp kid come work on in our production plant wow weed and lSD are a major part of his high school experiences uh he later said that taking acid was one of the two or three most important things he'd done in his life our consciousness was raised by zen and also by lSD lSD shows you that there's another side to the coin and you can't remember it when it wears off, but you know it. It reinforced my sense of what was important, creating great things instead of making money, putting things back into the stream of history and of human consciousness as much as I could. I will say that he does seem to be,

there seems to be a differentiating factor between him and like all the guys who come after him and like take his guru's CEO energy and just like use it to try and become profitable. Like there's like an authenticity to the artistic side of what he brought to it all. Yes, he doesn't seem that interested in money. Like in either direction, by the way. He also never gives anyone any money. But he, like, he might be the richest guy I've ever heard of

who, like, did, they're like, we literally have no history of philanthropy. Like, on the record. He's like, still being built. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But he's also, like, not that interest. Like, he's not motivated by money. And every one of his good decisions, like,

he'll have an idea and then the board will be like, well, this is fucking crazy, Steve. You actually can't do it this way. This is, and like, he has to just, like, fight them and fight them and fight them. And his laser focus is just like, what is going to be best for the consumer? Like, what's the consumer going to the light?

Is this like a little bit in the way that Steph Curry has broken basketball for young kids where it's reinforcing the wrong energy? Right. Yeah, that guy can shoot threes like that. Yeah, actually. You should not go out and try where they're like, well, everyone's like, look how much money he made. How did he do it?

being mean and you're like, no. No, no. He was mean. Yeah, he was more to it. And they're like, all right, I'll be mean and abuse people in a turtleneck. And they get all that money that he got. Sorry, gaslight people in a turtle neck. But they're getting into it, getting into it for money.

Right. And copying his like worst tendencies to go towards it. Chucking up threes even though you should. Yeah. So he also at this time starts experimenting with restrictive diets and fasting, like the gurus he was reading about in India when he did eat. It was strictly vegan, but he would also go weeks eating just one thing. When he did eat is a crazy sentence.

He definitely, like, I believe this is called an eating disorder. Yeah, yeah, he has, he has disordered eating. Sometimes he'll eat one thing. He would just eat apples or just parrot salad with lemon juice for like a whole week. Will you drag those apples to the trash? Yeah. Just, yeah, all the apple cores just lined up on his desk. Makes the little noise.

When he started at Atari, he told everyone he was on a water and air fast and not to call 911 if he passed out. Oh, yeah, this is a very interesting. He has an empty Tupperware in the fridge. Oh, yeah, that's my air. That's my lunch. Don't eat it. Don't heat it. It smells terrible.

Yeah. What's in here? It does seem like he's equally disillusioned about everything in his life in a way that is what creates a singular person. but sort of like what is difficult to relate to and also like easily like kind of dunk on of a singular person like this is when he meets Chris Ann Brennan who is his high school into college girlfriend

the mother of Lisa who their meat cute is kind of cool she likes her she's like animating a short film Pixar foreshadowing I'm sure that's how it happens in the Ashton Coucher movie and he walks up and hands her It's a desk lamp

just kind of doing its things And he's like, yeah, I did think of that. Yeah. Knocks her down with no one. And he goes up there and hands her Bob Dylan lyrics. He's obsessed with Bob Dylan. Oh, boy. He wrote out for her, which is pretty smooth. Less smooth is he then says,

I want them back when you're done with them. To lyrics? Yeah, that he wrote out for her. Yeah, I sent my girlfriend to link. And I was like, give me that back when you're done with that link. The link? To New York Times recipe for pizza. Don't download it or print it.

I'm seeing a pattern of like And I'm sorry to be like But like it with The people he really praises and enjoys Do things that he couldn't begin to attempt to do Yes And so I think there's no jealousy from him Because he couldn't do that

Right Like Bob Dylan is singular in both his voice And his writing ability and this and that And like a guru A shaman these people like This is outside of his capabilities Right So he's like well I can allot you

some like, you know what I mean? Like you're doing, I will give you some credit and kind of follow in that direction. Yeah. I think he also, I will say, like his dad is really good at machines and he has a pretty good relationship with his adoptive father. But I think what

he learned from that is like how to manipulate people who are good at machines. Because he's not good at machines. Yeah, yeah, right. He himself doesn't even code or anything, right? Yeah, he doesn't really code. He just learns how to talk to. Tud of bully nerds.

Essentially. Kind of like give them like praise them in the way that gets them dependent on what you can do to exploit them. Yeah. He's a mark of a true billionaire. And he finds weed in his car one time and he's like furious. And he's like, Steve, this has to stop right now. And he's like, yeah, I'm not going to do that, man. I'm going to keep smoking weed.

And his dad's like, all right. You're so smart. Don't damn it. I didn't know that was an option. Right. So as promised, because it was like part of their adoption papers that they had to have a fund and pay for his college. Paul and Clara jobs paid for Steve to go to college. I had to put away hundreds of dollars. Yeah.

Well, so they did actually end up. He enrolled at Reed College in Portland, but dropped out after six months, claiming it was a waste of his parents' money. He tells the story in his famous commencement speech about how he dropped out of Reed College after a semester. because he realized that his poor parents couldn't afford it. And in reality, he could have gone to, like, Berkeley, like Stanford, I think would have offered him money. He chose the most expensive school in the country, Reed College. And they were like, but Steve, we can't afford it. And he was like, I don't care.

Fuck you. Yeah. Like, you're paying for it. And they paid for it for a semester. And then he came back and was like, you know what? You guys can't afford this. I'm going to. I crunch the numbers by thinking I thought what you said.

He does, like, that is how his brain works. He's like, that idea fucking sucks. And then the next day, he says that idea back to you. It's just a weird thing. He does seem. It's like he has to know it experientially. Like, he can't just be conceptual to him. It's like, he has to be at the point.

He's like, oh, I know you said you didn't have enough money. But now that I see the bills and I know what you make, now I know it wasn't enough that you. Let me let you let you let you. guys know you don't have enough money for this. Thanks Steve. Yeah, we know we've been crying all week about this. I haven't eaten in quite a while. This is one of the things he, so he sticks around Reed College for 18 months after he drops out and they have, they're like a super, like, hippie college. And they just let people hang out and like drop in on classes. And so

he starts taking whatever class like is interesting to him. And calligraphy is like that they are one of the leading colleges in calligraphy at the time. And he, yeah, amazingly. It's an easy word to write. That's right. Really easy. No zees or nothing. But he credits that with sparking his interest in typefaces and fonts. And like, this is like one of those anecdotes that I kind of call bullshit.

People are like, and without that, we wouldn't have different fonts on the computer. I'm like, I don't know, man. I think somebody was going to come up with that idea. Yeah, I could see people that design fonts. No, he's the only person who's had letters before. Yeah, yeah. I could see it influencing his like steadfastness with serif versus sand versus consistency versus minimum. Like, you know, he's definitely like a cut.

Visual language. Yeah, yeah. Putting his employees through hell, Vettica. And. But other than that, I don't think he invented having two fonts. Yeah. Put you through hell, Vettica. One of the influential people that he meets at Reed is a guy named Robert

Friedland, who is a convicted LSD dealer, who had emerged as a spiritual guru. He creates this like, or Friedlander, I don't know, it's listed two different ways here, but he creates this like commune that everybody lives and works on, like all these different hippies that Steve lives and works on for a while. He works on the Apple Orchard, and Steve Wozniak has come out and said that like that's where the name Apple comes from. I just, a detail that should tell you everything you need to know about American capitalism.

So this guy who, he eventually sours on this guy because he's like, this guy's kind of a psychopath. Like he's got like cult leader tendencies, Friedlander. Oh, he does. Yeah, Friedlander does.

And so Jobs is eventually like, I don't really fuck with that guy. But I do learn, I did learn a lot of like cult leader stuff from him. Friedlander goes on to be a billionaire leader of a company. Like this like cult leader guy who he learned his like cult leader stuff from also is a billionaire in American capitalism, which. Love that. They, he also.

There must be two coincidences that guys like this both. Yeah. I know, right? How strange. That's right. I get a bad rap. He was a billionaire owner of a mining company who poisoned Colorado groundwater. with cyanide in one of the biggest environmental disasters

in the history of U.S. mining. It was crazy as back when that happened. That's how he pitched it. And they were like, okay, okay. But yeah, that's not an industry that's unfamiliar with environmental disasters. Yeah, seriously. I like every, he's always taking a little bit of wisdom.

It's like, well, read, they're really in a calligraphy, so kind of gave me a little list of like design, visual design. And then this guy was like a mental abuser, but charismatic as hell. So I kind of pick some of those. His zen aesthetic could also be incredibly annoying when he bought a big house with his first wife. He refused to buy any furniture. I was going to say, of course.

We spoke about furniture in theory for eight years, she said. In theory for eight years. Wow. What did they sleep? We spent out of time asking ourselves, what is the purpose of a sofa? He's like, can we put this conversation to bed? And she's like, to what? I don't know what that is.

don't know what that is. Yeah, what purpose would that serve? Um, and like, so he, he adopts Zen with regards to like not having a place to sit or eat or sleep, um, but not in his personality. He's,

he's not a very chill guy. Uh, yeah, was, I mean, I feel like, uh, I know people who are Zen into Zen Buddhism, but I don't think that,

that, is it always being like, you can't have a couch. No. You can't have a, Like, it's just interesting that he's just even taking it there. It was like, you do need a lot of rooms. I get, yeah.

Yeah. I get minimalism, you know, and not overconsuming and those kinds of things. And only, like, using what you need or whatever. But then being like, don't need a bed. Don't need a fucking chair. I'll just, I'll shit off the balcony. I don't even need a toilet, you know? Just hang my ass off the side.

I think we're good. Like, it's shit off the balcony and soak your feet in the toilet, which is something that he would do. Soke his feet in your toilet. That you're closer than you thought there. in the toilet. Yeah. And when he showed up to work there,

like, you're looking really flush today. Yeah. So after Reed, he returns to Silicon Valley in 1974, bearded, long hair, who didn't dig showers or shoes. He showed up at Atari, which is his first,

like, tech job, refused, other than the, you know, working with a guy who liked to fuck. And, uh, just refuses to leave the waiting room to,

to your point about, like, how jobs used to work. They're like, there's this guy. Should we call the cops or let interview them a job? Give him a VP. And they're like,

I guess I'll talk to him. And he has no formal engineering training, no college degree, but he was passionate and brash and clearly very smart. So Atari made him employee number 40, put him to work tweaking circuit board designs for games, which was something he's not good at. But he is at this point friends with Steve Wozniak,

who is a brilliant programmer, engineer, genuine sweetie pie, who jobs stepped on every chance he could. The nerds nerd. Total nerds nerd. He's co-founder of Apple, played by Seth Rogen in the movie. But when Atari was trying to launch the game breakout, management offered a bounty of $100 for every chip that engineers could remove from the board,

which lowered the cost of production and Wozniak was working at HP at the time but jobs brought him in at night to help with breakout at night is by the way the only time they would allow him to work because he was such an asshole and smelled so bad that they literally made a graveyard shift and we're like and you're the only one on it

that's like what they do to some monsters and movies right we know you're not harmful yet so we let you out now because it's for the greater good. Oh my God. He promises Waz $350 if he could get the chip count under 50 and after several sleepless nights, Waz is able to do that and Jobs pays him $350. Didn't mention there was also a $5,000 bonus, which he kept for himself. Hey, got his cut though. What a middleman move. I know. Yeah. Yeah. What a genius. This is the only like lesson that people take from the Steve Jobs story.

Right. So like you can do that to people. Right. I want to be a landlord of. work. Right, right. Was is like the money's irrelevant, and it was then. I would have done it for free. I was happy to be able to design a video game that people would actually play. I think Steve needed the money and I just didn't, and just didn't tell me the truth. If he told me the truth, he'd have gotten the money. I like that. That's the nicest, most optimistic outlook. I assume positive intent, which is a core principle of working at Apple. They tell you to do that. Really? Assume positive intent. Assume positive intent. Yeah. Okay.

That must not a steep job. Assume you're a dickhead. He would know to think that to tell you to do that. So he could control both people in the situation. Assume positive intent when you talk to me. Wasniak, by the way, when he found out that jobs had fucked him over in that way, he read about it in a Time magazine article, like, cried. So this is just him being like, no, it's fine.

It's actually fine. I'm really not bothered by it at all. I'm really happy for it. I do just want to. So Wozniak is this savant figure who is an incredible programmer. He would take radios apart and, like, build transistors. He was, like, as a child, he was, like, the coolest kid in town until his friends started getting interested in girls. And he was, like, still interested in riding bikes and, like, building electronics.

And at one point, as a kid, he noticed that metronomes sounded like the tick, tick, tick sound of a bomb. So he built a fake bomb, hit it at his school. When he got called to the principal's office, he thought he was, like, winning another math award. he's like, I guess I'm going to receive another math award and he was arrested and they were like, yeah, for the fake bomb. Taken to Juvie where he taught the other inmates how to disconnect the wires from their fans

and make it shock anyone who touched their bars. That kind of rules. That fucking is so cool. That's amazing. We have time to go pick up my trophy. They're handcuffing me for the trophy? This is weird. This is a long waiting room for the trophy.

I'll be running this place in fucking 15 minutes. Watch this shit. Yeah, yeah. And then lick at them. Yeah. I think he also just might have a personality that, like, gets along well with people who are, like, test high for psychopathy. Because he, like, him and Steve Jobs are immediate best friends. Sort of like a sponge.

He goes into prison and everyone's like, yo! Yeah. You're the king of prison. Right. They were also, like, they, so both love pranks. And their first money-making scheme is to sell phone freaking box. which was like a box that would like create this whistle tone that would make it so you could call long distance for free, which was a big deal at the time. They would, uh, some of the pranks they pulled was like calling the Vatican and pretending to be Henry Kissinger.

And they like got through like no people would not waste a long distance call. It's just impossible to emphasize how much the world has changed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Beloved Henry Kissinger. Yeah. Yeah, the Pope was asleep.

Otherwise, they would have talked to the Pope. Wow. They hadn't taken time zones into account. And the Pope was always asleep in the 70s and 80s. I like that. I like that, oh, okay, for the Pope. One second, Mr. Kissinger. Oh, he's asleep actually right now.

It's actually one in the morning. Henry Kissinger heard about this prank and he's like, I'm not wake up the Pope a ball? I know, right? Let's kind of. Hold on. Let me call now this time. No, it's the actual. Henry Kisses you're calling for the Pope.

So 1975, Jobs and Woz start attending meetings of the Homebrew Computer Club, which is a hobbyist group that met in Menlo Park to swap ideas about the emerging world of personal computers. And in 1976, Waz built the very first Apple computer, the Apple One, which was just like something to show off to the Homebrew Geeks. And it would probably have stayed that way,

but Jobs is like, we should sell this maybe and become incredibly... Hey, stop showing them, idiot. Yeah. But at this time, he gets a small house in Cooper Tino with two to three small bedrooms, one of which they converted into a room for taking acid, filled it with Apple packing material, and they would, like, throw the neighborhood kids into the packing material, like it was a pile of leaves. But that was also where they did a bunch of LSD too.

That's where they did. It was a ball pit for neighborhood kids or your LSD room. And that's where they were living when they... People just asked us, questions about stuff. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, my son's at two guys named Steve's upstairs room.

What are they doing there? He comes back with packing peanuts falling off of his person. Normally they just do acid in there. What's that thing stuck to the back of your leg? That Apple one. It's not for sale. This is also where his daughter, Lisa, is conceived. His daughter, who he denies.

In the packing peanuts. In the packing peanuts, presumably. But at that time, when he finds, out that Chris Ann is pregnant, and he says he'd be okay with an abortion, but not with adoption. He's the same age as those biological parents were. I guess he wouldn't know that, but the psychological stuff around his adopt. Like he... I'm like obsessed with how shallow it is. Right. Yeah, right. Like a psychiatrist, like, a psychiatrist, oh, this is, this isn't even one-to-one is putting more depth to where your problems came from than what this is. Yeah. Exactly.

So they formed the Apple Computer Company in 1976 with Was as a little bit of, the technical guy, Jobs is the marketing guy. Their office is the Jobs Family Garage in Los Altos. So people are, say that, like, that's, it was a, like, they sometimes work there, but it's important that you, like, revise it to make it seem like it was the most important part of the marketing story. Exactly. It was in, in his parents' garage.

There's a scene where they're about to debut the Apple One at a big conference in Atlantic City in the, in his biography. And Woz is, like, scared because the guys behind them are, like, talking about how thoroughly unimpressive the Apple one is while using what he calls advanced business speak and acronyms I didn't even know. Oh, man. So he's just like, you know, not prepared for the business world. So it is good that he meets Steve because Steve's like, get fucked.

What are you talking about? This is when they create the first Apple logo. I'm going to show it to you guys now. It's a little bit different than the other one. I know this one looks like Richard Scary. Yeah. Oh, God. Is that, oh, that's Newton?

with the Apple above his head? Newton under the apple tree, as the Apple's about to hit it. One of my favorite Apple devices, too, the Newton. Yeah, classic. Yeah. It's, yeah, it looks like etching from like the title page of a 17th century novel. Yeah, yeah. Like that was on like a printing plate or something.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he helped design that one, loved it. On asset? It probably. Yeah. The next version with the different colors in the Apple with a bite taken out of it, which they took the bite out of it because it looked too much like a cherry

without the bite taken out of it. But that came from the advertising agency. Regis McKenna. Jobs' only advice on that was don't make it cute and the desire spent a week buying and drawing real apples. The reason for the colorful stripes was that the Apple 2 was the first home or personal computer that could reproduce images on the monitor in color.

Oh. And each stripe was printed in its own specially mixed color. So they had like proprietary colors that like they owned. Oh, for that logo basically? For that. There's like a lot of like making fun of them. But that is so far to have come in 40 years. Right.

Where I'm like, oh, right now I could see what Leonel Messi did today. Right, right, right, right, right. From my pocket. And they're like, we had to, we invented a new color that we owned for a little while for a stripe on our logo. Yeah. Because people had color, color computers in their house for the first time. Yeah, I guess that's kind of like Pepsi, like the Pepsi logo, the Coke logo, BMW. Like is it Coca-Cola red?

Yeah, yeah. Shell has its own colors that they created for their. It's whatever the black on the birds is when they watch them. That's BP, actually. Black bird does BP. Yeah, yeah. You have the desire to help, to make a real difference? The College of the City will offer the program Dependance and Scenti Mental.

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Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. So the Apple 2 is the first big seller. It's a workhorse. It's Waz's invention. And so Steve, like, kind of grows to resent it

and is always working on, like, whatever the other thing is going to be. What is Steve not working on? Yeah. I'll take that one. Yeah. Steve Jobs, like, becomes obsessed with

because Apple 2 also like goes against all the things that he like all his innovations of it like being a closed system it you know having like obsolescent like it's a workhorse that like doesn't break you know I know

like my families my cousins who had an Apple 2 in their house like had it from 80 to like 93 your second computer would have like better than dial-up internet. Those lasted so long. Like your second computer's a gateway 2000 or something.

Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But so based on that, based on the Apple 2, their early successes, Meteoric Jobs & Woz released the Apple 2 in 1977, the massive hit. It's the first personal computer that served both the business and consumer markets.

Sales rocketed from $2 million in 1977 to $600 million in 1981 when Apple went public. Oh, and in 1983, Apple joined the Fortune 500, which is the fastest company to ever do it. And at this time, his ex, Chris Ann Brennan, lives in a backhouse on welfare with Lisa, the baby. He's just denying that it's his. Fortunately, at this time, paternity tests are starting to become a thing.

Damn, technology. Crazy episode of Mori. Yeah, exactly. she doesn't sue him but the city does because they're like wait, who's the phone? We're paying for your meals right now. And so his theory

is that he was originally supposed to be the time person of the year in 1982, but because of this illegitimate child controversy, they switched it to making the person of the year the home computer and like making it What a relatable thing to have a theory about. You never forgave one of the people, one of the employees who was like, yeah, no, I know about Lisa when the journalist asked him.

He's like, you've got to keep it fucking buttoned. So around this time, people, you know, the IPO is making him and Wa's extremely rich and like the other founders and other employees. But there are people who are there at the very start who like don't get any stock who he's just like, what, you're still in an hourly employee. and so for those people Waz sells shares at a discount to like mid-level people he thinks are getting fucked by jobs later outright gives people his stock

and it's like bought a house with it money Waz is giving people Waz them buys his dream house with his new wife who divorces him and takes the house Oh wow six grand back then Yeah yeah he lost Silicon Valley homeowner But yeah for one of his friends from this time So Steve is anti-loyal

He's the opposite of that. He has to abandon the people he is close to. Wow. Do we have any quotes from enemies? Right. That are like, this dude rules and I love him. Yeah. Because all those quotes from friends are like,

he would cut you a little bit with a knife he found just before lunch to see if you bled Gatorade. He'd always say, let's see if there's Gatorade in there. Yeah, I love that guy. Yeah. This is when we get to the section of the doc called asshole. So. The game? everybody get your

beer's out. Jobs was hard to work with. His first response to anything was that looks like shit. Perfectionism and micromanaging were already on full display. He would send back circuit boards because the wiring wasn't straight enough

even though no one could see the wiring, which like sometimes people use as like, and this is what makes him awesome. Right. When I went to training, for genius training for Apple, that was part of like getting into it. This was in like the 2010-11 and so you would open the computers and they'd

like, well, this, this is difficult to work on because he wanted the aesthetic of what people don't see to match the aesthetic of what they do see. Right. Because he thinks it's a top-down sort of like performance type of thing. Like if you're making the inside of the computer look as good as the outside of the computer, that means your company is buttoned down in the way where it would do something like that. And we were learning that. Like you, the inside of this looks like this all the way to like the old color iMacs, we learned to work on and stuff. We're like, this is set up. It would be so much easier if we just did this.

Right. Which they wouldn't say it like that. Right, right, right. No, it must look like this on the inside. Right. All the typeface on the circuit boards, it must be printed at a single different printer, which is way more so when you open it,

it reads properly. And these are a typeface on a circuit board that you're never going to do anything with. Right, right. They were so detail-oriented about that the entire time. And also because he, like, doesn't really understand circuit boards. Is that right? It's just like, I want it to look good. This should look cooler.

Yeah. It doesn't need to look like it. Wildly impractical, like self-serving. Probably a lie, he said because he didn't understand it, that then you can like reinforce at some point of, no, this is how it should be. They chose for more than 2,000 shades of beige for the shell of the Apple 2. And he was like, nope, still not good and demanded a new color.

So just kind of hard to work for. Have you ever had a boss where you leave an imperfection in it so they will have something to correct? Yes. Do you think that people probably showed him beige 17 again? And they're like, well, here's a brand new one. Here's the one that we created just for you, Steve. Yeah, yeah. This one's not named after your dad.

If you want this one, it's called Dad Bage 17. Dad Bage. And worse than his tyrannical attitude was his personal hygiene. He didn't believe in showers or shoes had to be physically forced out of Apple meetings. and like he is Apple at this point, forced out of Apple meetings and told to bathe. And then to relax, sometimes he'd soak his feet in the toilet.

That happens in the Danny Boyle movie, but they just like don't explain it and don't even reference it. And he's like otherwise clean. So you like, it almost like doesn't register. But yeah, that was a thing that he did. He is fairly, it's sort of like a new Lord of the Rings show. Everyone looks very clean.

Yeah. And you're like, what do we? we, it's dirty outside. Right, right, right, right. So he should just be some, should he be scuffed up a little bit. He just put his fucking feet in a toilet. Why? Why the, is there an explanation of what like the cool water soothed his marking dogs or some shit?

You know, he would kill dogs. Yeah, right. Yeah, sure. He drowned them in the toilet with his feet. The podcast, blank check was talking about this. And Ben, the editor of the show, producer Ben, was saying it, it seems like some shit that someone would do who had taken too much acid. It does feel kind of like, you know

what I mean? Like I feel like, oh, got to get grounded to the water. Yeah. That episode of Mr. Rogers where he puts the male man's feet into the water and he's like, how can I change the culture like in this sort of way? And so he puts his feet in the toilet. And that one were like, and it was like a huge deal. Yeah. And Steve Jobs

like, well, I have to have this cultural impact. I'll put my feet in a toilet. With that has pee in it. Because he doesn't understand what people resonates with people about. any of it. He's like water feet. Water, feet, another, some, some color. Right. Some color. That's, right? Was that the lesson?

Not a little bit more. I needed to be just the right. Sorry, man. I'm freaking out on fucking acid right now. It's the wrong shade of beige. You're pissed. The wrong shade of beige. He's never hydrated enough for it to be. It does feel like some Howard Hughes repeating the way of the future wearing tissue boxes on his feet type shit, though, you know? Yeah, yeah. Like putting your feet in the toilet. And this is happening, like, as he's launching Apple. Yeah. Well, there's all just like this through line of, like, with the weird eating and

not bathing, like, he, he really doesn't care about himself on some level. You know what I mean? Like, it feels like there's so many things happening outside of him that are more important that he really doesn't seem like he gives a fuck about himself. Never learned to love himself. It feels like another example of that thing that he genuinely buys into that is a little more hippie-ish and artsy-ish, that newer tech generations biting his rancid energy steal for the wrong reason.

I mean, he's just like earnestly, like, I don't give a shit how I feed, if I stink, I'm putting my seat in a piss toilet. And now people are like, I need to piss toilet for IPO. Right. You're saying the words, but the intent is wrong.

Right, right, right. One thing that feels like it was, that is in keeping with current tech CEOs, everyone at Apple needed a security badge and Scott, uh, the new, they brought in like a CEO because they're like, I don't know what to do with this guy. Um, this guy might,

Michael Scott. And, uh, Wait, really? Yeah, one of the first CEOs of Apple was Michael Scott. And he assigned badge number one to Waz and badge number two to Jobs just randomly. And Jobs like threw a fit and like burst into tears and insisted on having number one. And Waz was like, here, he can't have number one? And Scott was like, no, we already like printed them.

Yeah, fuck this guy. Yeah. Jobs like had a full-blown tantrum, cried and was like, can you get me number zero instead? And they were like, fine, man, we'll get you number zero. That means you don't exist. And then payroll was like we actually can't, like the system that can work with number zero. So he had to stick with number two. It's like one of the only L's.

That was pitched to us at Apple Training as like a look how his hardheadedness was able to get his creative vision across. Because he really, he knew his importance level and he demanded perfect. And you're like, then they tell you a story and like, that's insane. Sounds like a baby. It's such a co-lady type of like it teetered on that. the edge of the Kool-Aid to the, even at that point, some people are like, you know, you pull the curtain back a little bit is the, yeah, right. But there's no one back there, but at the time, they're still like,

and then the speak is still so. Sure, sure. Jobsian, right, comes to you. That's so funny. It really does feel, like, people would be like, Apple's a cult, but I didn't realize, like, how. Oh, I mean, it was weeks and weeks and weeks of training in California or in Atlanta, and, like, you're in Cooper Tino and you're really, well, like I said, when I was in,

I was at the biggest retail store in the world made a million and a half dollars a day at this store and there'd be 30,000 people coming every single day and it was such a big deal but it was right at the cusp of well we have enough information now that we all we can wink and nod

at the BS stories a little bit but you don't know who will wink at nod at that or who is like fully bought it and so you have to tread this cult knowing well half the people aren't really the cult, it just kind of pays, it's a nice job. And I liked a lot of the culture on the micro level of helping people and things like that, but who you could make.

That's a weird environment, yeah, because like suddenly you out yourself as like not a non-believer. I work with dozens of people with Apple tattoos of their employee numbers, of the people they met at their genius training, all these foreign numbers. Oh, you don't think it's weird to have a number tattooed on your forearm? No, I was like, it was a stick in poker, they said. Yeah. But all of these, like, I've done this training.

Oh, I've had six tours in Cooper T. It's like, go to work. But then other people who are just like, this job pays well, I like giving people free stuff when I can and helping people with their computers, which I genuinely did. It was like a minefield of old culture, new culture, buy into the Kool-Lade and things like that.

But that story, I distinctly remember pitched it was like, and he knew it was good for this company and that he should have been employee one. And like, nobody would have cared about. Yeah. It's so stupid. Like, yeah, it makes no sense. He was like, oh, good.

So he was a cooler number. Yeah. Yeah. He showed up the company's 1979 employee Halloween party dressed like Jesus, which maybe a little bit of self-awareness there. Sounds like they could be retconning him not knowing there was a party. Right. This is just a plan for the big day.

And he's kind of the ultimate. I didn't know I couldn't do that guy. He drove without a license plate his whole life. Baller. always riding dirty, huh? And would also park in handicapped spaces all the time. He's like the testament for tickets are a poor tax.

Right, right, right, right. You know, like how Bezos just has breaking every code for his home and all these hedges or whatever those things. I'd rather just pay 50 grand a week than cut my hedges. All right, this is from his daughter, Lisa Brennan Jobs' book,

or the New York Times review of it. Miss Brennan Jobs describes her father's frequent use of money to confuse or frighten her. Sometimes he decided not to pay for things at the very last minute, she writes, walking out of restaurants without paying the bill.

When her mother found a beautiful house and asked Mr. Jobs to buy it for her and Lisa, he agreed it was nice, but bought it for himself and moved him with his wife, Larene Powell Jobs.

Holy shit. Yeah. That's, what a fucking maniac. Really? That is. The fucking woman that you like made miserable

turned your back on your own kid. Oh yeah, that is nice. Oh, you like that house? You have good taste. I could be, I could be into someone like you. We align on taste.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I found someone else. And actually, it's my house now. Yeah. That's crazy. That is crazy. Was it like even a mansion or anything like that? Or like, was he downsizing?

Like a gaudy mansion, really. Right. But I don't know. Or maybe it was like one of a dozen houses. It'd be so funny. It's like a small house. Like he would never live in. He's like, no, I love it.

Just moving in now. A house with wheels? Yeah. One of the big, you know, he does fit the, the iconography test of like always having like a look especially with the black turtleneck. So the origin story of that

comes around this time in the early 80s. He went to Japan for meeting with the CEO of Sony and a bunch of Sony employees were wearing the same uniform, which was a snazzy jacket with zip away sleeves that became a vest and had no buttons.

I got beat up for dressing like this, by the way. My pants did this and I got made fun of. Oh, you did the zip. away hiking pants. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those are back now, just so you know. Oh, great, I'll tell my mom. Yeah.

So, I'll show her. So these were designed by a Japanese fashion designer, Issy Miyaki. Oh. Who jobs, like, reached out to and was like, you do this for Apple. I feel like my employees are going to really like it.

And he brought it to Cooper Tener. Cooper Tina, Cooper Tina. And was, like, booed out of the room. And everyone was like, fuck that. I don't know why. This guy's like, I made you guys clothes. And these abused

employees are booing him and this guy just like, what the fuck did I come here? He said Miyake, man. This is that shit. But he also liked Miyake's black mock turtlenecks and was like, hey, could you get me a, can you at least give me a uniform that I can wear? They sent him

100 and he was just working through that pile for the rest of his life. Oh, and then he was just thrown away because they stunk so bad. You didn't bother washing him. He didn't notice that they stunk. I could tell you that much. But there's also the, and I'm going to mispronounce this,

but componentophobia theory of his wardrobe, which is that he had a fear of buttons. And I think there's some documentation that he didn't like buttons and that, like, if you look at the Sony vest that he liked so much, there are no buttons on that. And it's why he made the touchscreen phone.

Right, exactly. Well, that's what people think is that maybe that's the re, like he didn't like buttons of any, any sort. So, interesting. Next level.

Next level, there was that like weird shitty Apple keyboard, I remember that came out. That was like more conceptual. That was like two wheels almost. Right. That was like, I wonder if that was like born out of like,

ugh, fucking keyboard. One employee made it to keep him out of their office. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. I think that I'll, I'll,

I'll shit on him a lot and a lot of, the turtle net goes hard. Oh, yeah. The look is... He chose wisely. Yeah, he chose wisely. Also, it's good to know, though, too. It's not that he had swag.

Like, he just knew to ask someone like, Isse Miyake, to be like, what should my uniform be? Right. And they're like, boom, this. There it is. It goes, in the cartoon closet of dressing the same every day, like Doug Money.

It goes hard. And it's such a good look. Especially for his, like, yeah, his body type, everything. Yeah, it's very good. Something that would keep the stink from escaping from the neck. Practically speaking, I need this to be a trash bag with leg holes.

That's airtight. I have a good idea for you, Steve. So this is around the time that he gets fired from Apple. Story of my life. The original Macintosh was his pet project at Apple because he wanted something that was like closed system and would have a mouse and a graphical user interface, a GUI, which they stole from Xerox.

There's a really good scene that I think sums up, like, what is geniuses, where they go to Xerox Park. And so Xerox was, like, located in Connecticut and were smart enough to, like, create this place where their developers could, like, just, like, fuck around and come up with ideas and invent shit. But the decisions were still made in Connecticut, and so they would like get these amazing ideas in,

but like the people in Connecticut didn't know what to do with it. So they were just like, I don't know, shut the fuck up. We're not going to like invest in this idea. And they invented the graphical user interface that became like Apple, like the mouse. They invented that. The cursor. The cursor.

Yeah, everything. Like up to that point, it was like all these prompts and shit. And so there's a good scene where like he's like, I will give you a million dollars in app, like ownership in Apple. if you just let me see because he had a sense that they had invented this graphical user interface

and like first they show him like a fake version because the people at Xeroch Park on the West Coast like know what they have right right right right like yeah yeah here you go this is what it looks like

and he's like this is fucking bullshit there's a picture of a mouse taking a shit it's an actual mouse yeah what do you think and then when they finally show it to him he's like literally like jumping around the room

he's like oh my God, you guys are sitting on a gold mine. This is a fucking gold mine. Like, what do you? He says, how are you not making millions of dollars off of this? Wow. And Xerox just, like, was never going to do anything with it. Hilarious of all companies, you copy Xerox.

I know. They really should have seen this comment. This was their bread and butter. That's right. For a million bucks? Yeah, for a million bucks. Yeah, for a million bucks. Just for me to look at it.

Yeah. And I think they ended up, it ended up being like 20 something million because like Apple obviously grew a lot. Sure, sure. I mean, it's crazy thing there's people listening who are there. Xerox is a verb to them. Yeah. And never a proper now.

Right, right. Well, this is actually like a forefront computing company and did this and went here and went, you know, and now that just sort of like has become. Yeah. Can you Xerox that? It's like, yeah, well, it used to be so much more. Yeah. But like he had the Connecticut brain and the, you know, a Xerox Park brain, which like seems like it's the thing that makes him. I do think if you threw the 10 best ideas for something out in front of him and

him a day he would be able to pick out the best one. I think that he would always know the best one for what he's trying to do with it. His recognition and I hate the idea of like his taste making is just completely unparalleled for what will work.

So then he starts launching computers with the GUE, the Lisa is I think the first one. But they all start like kind of tanking because they're too expensive I think for the market at that point. They're like the price computers aren't now still.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. $2,500 in 1985. It was like a car. Yeah. Like a used car, basically. Yeah.

He does name the Lisa after his daughter, but denies that it's named after her to her. Which is the coincidence of coincidences. Yeah. Oh, your name's Lisa? The first time he admits it is like she's hanging out with him and Bono. And Bono's like, so you named the Lisa after her, right? And he's like, yeah, fine. and she's like, I guess he can only tell the truth to other

that's the leverage Bono had over him to wedge his fucking album on to every phone that one day. Horrible day at work. Yeah. Were you arguing that? Yes. My phone broke. I have you too. Yeah. Every time someone come in, they'd say, can you help me delete this? I'd be like, oh, you two? I thought it was a fun thing to do all day. No one liked it. And they're just crying. Yeah.

This is when the, so they debut the Macintosh, which is a computer with the graphical user interface in 1984 and it comes with the 60 second Super Bowl spot directed by Ridley Scott. It's one of the most famous commercials of all time. The concept for that ad was in existence and had been pitched to like every major brand and they all had like turned it down as being like too narcissistic and up its own ass. Like so presumably like, you know how confident they walked into the Apple meeting then? They're like, okay, we've been told we're too up our own ass. You know who's about to buy this in one second? The furthest up his own asshole and narcissists has ever

The only person likes the smell up there The storyboard, stop, I love it, we're buying it. Can you make hurt me? Yeah. But it is, the Mac is like successful, but not as successful as he expects it to be. And it's like a leapboard in designing usability, but the sales are disappointing. And this is because he's such an asshole, he like, that can't weather this storm. And he gets bounced.

He's also like trying to oustress. He brings in the CEO of Pepsi. Pepsi, right? Yeah, yeah. He's like, you want to spend the rest of your life selling sugared water to children? Or do you want to change the world? And within like a year, that guy's like, we got to get rid of this asshole. At the end, they did that thing to him where they put him in his own, like, fake job

to like get him to quit and be like, yeah, you're in charge of nothing. Right. You just fucking quit already? Yeah. And he tried to oust Scully and, like, it was this like power struggle. But eventually they were just like, get the fuck out of here. So he cashed in $20 million in Apple stock, stole some of his most loyal Apple employees, and launched a new startup called Next.

The goal of Next was to build powerful desktop computers for universities and the educational sector. The computer didn't sell that great, but it was a huge leap forward in the operating systems of computers. Incredibly 90-stated looking logo, too. Yeah, yeah. If you look up the next one, it was the big black cube was that what that computer looked like. This is the closest he ever gives to, ever comes to giving some of his money away. He briefly considers using his money to launch a philanthropic foundation. And again, there's no public record of jobs giving a dime to any charitable organization.

Instead, he scraps the foundation and spends $10 million to buy a struggling computer animation studio called Pixar, which was started by George Lucas and hadn't produced anything beyond some proof-of-concept shorts. and under Jobs' leadership of just being just very clear about the mission, obsession with detail, haranguing employees, they partner with Walt Disney. They're really on the verge of not being a thing. And he gets Disney to partner with them to release Toy Story, which is a massive hit. For all the Apple computer, everything, the everything's on the table, and I see the thing that will be everything

that might be more than that is Pixar. Pixar is like, oh, no, no, this will be everything. Yeah, yeah. This is the idea. Even bigger, yeah. I will say, like, Pixar and the run he's about to go on when he goes back to Apple. Out of control,

are two of the great runs of, like, companies creating great shit for consumers consistently that I think the only other example of that I've been alive for is the Wu-Tang Clan albums. Yeah. And Wu-Tang Forever, like, all the time. the solo album. Yeah, yeah. Like that one even like has the Rizza as a

singular genius behind it. So like to do it at the corporate level is so crazy. It's really, it's like Kanye's aughts all happened at the same time. Right. But like without a single you know, he's still having to like deal with a corporate board who thinks every one of these decisions is a bad idea.

Like Pixar to iPhone 4. Yeah. Yeah. It's world. It's insane. Pixar. IMAX. like yeah there's just so many things in that entire hickr iMac iPod iPhone I just wish he was here to see the trailer for Toy Story 5 I know because if anyone's overstayed they're welcome

I know he would have watched a third one like kill the fucking toys yeah his note would have been like wait they didn't burn up in the ad incinerator now he has to give him to his kid right yeah yeah that's not his kid Those aren't Andy's parents. Andy, man, I would fight this. I would fight this, man. You don't know that's your kid, dude.

There is a good idea hidden in the Isaacson biography that Toy Story is about because Jobs, like, has this fascinating. Like, the only thing he cares about is, like, creating objects that, like, fulfill the philosophical duty that they've been, like, built for. Right. You know, and, like, that objects have this essential beauty to them that is about, like, serving their purpose. And, like, the way he's crazy about the iPhone being as simple and useful as possible, like, toys, essential nature is to, like, want to be played with.

And so in a weird way, it, like, creates this, like, Steve Jobs philosophical universe of, like, objects. But anyways, dude, acid is pretty powerful. I know, like, that's, like, that's some feet. Literally, one of the toys is named Buzz. Right. That's right. As long as you don't mind soaking your feet in the toilet. That's what I got to do, bro.

You're telling me falling with style is not a Steve Jobs-esque sounding phrase. You're not flying. You're falling with style. I'm falling with style. You're right, bud. Both Toy Story and the iPhone have these moments where they're like scheduled to come out very soon. And they have to like scrap everything because somebody comes up with like a better idea, which I think is another good example of like him just being like, fuck everything.

if it's not the best product that it can be. There's a screening of Toy Story where they go to Disney and show them and they're like, this isn't good. Like, we're kind of ashamed of how bad this is because it's the one where like, Woody is an asshole.

Have you heard about? Yeah, yeah. There's clips of it on where he's like, get out of it. I think it attempts to murder. It's not Tom Hanks at this point. I don't think is. It is Tom Hanks.

It doesn't work at all. Incredible. And so they scrap the whole thing and like to go back to the drawing board. And with the iPhone, they had a model that was like a lot of aluminum and there was a screen, but the screen didn't like extend all the way out

to the edges. And they just were like, an unusable bubble that was kind of like an eyesore. Yeah. They were like put it off for another eight months and like just eat all of this money. And there it is. But yeah, he's like willing to do that shit.

So he comes back to Apple and is like, I'm just going to be an unpaid advisor immediately, like, gets rid of the CEO. Can I go unpaid advise the CEO on the balcony real quick? His broken window. And then takes the stage at a meeting, says, okay, tell me what's wrong with this place. And people are like, oh, I don't know. He's like, it's the product.

And he's like, so what's wrong with the products? And before anyone can answer, he's like, the products suck. There's no sex in them anymore. Don't talk about the Newton like that. Yeah, some of them are like holding the Newton, which is like a gigapet. Yeah. Like this big.

Yeah. I remember my friend's dad had one and thought he was the coolest fucking guy. And we're like, this shit sucks. It doesn't do anything, but it is big. Yeah, yeah. And it has like a little stylus that you can kind of mark stuff with. That is one of the good lines from the Steve Jobs movie that I think would be iconic if people had, if that movie had a big bigger impact that I'm pretty sure he said where he,

said that the stylus, you gain one stylus while getting rid of the five connected to your wrist. Wow. So he's like, that goes pretty, always hated styluses. Fucking acid, dude. And people who've lost appendages. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The iMac G3 is the first product designed by Johnny Ive.

And that's the beginning of... This is another great, like, visual collab. Yeah. Jobs Ive partnership would go on to include the Ibook, the iPod, the iPhone. and the iPad. Pretty strong collabo there. You really get the sense like that is his true love.

You know, his purpose is not here to like be a good parent. And even like later when he has like cancer and like he has more kids with his wife that he admits are his kids. Oh, and they're like, I bet after he like goes through these like near death experiences, like he's gonna,

he just like goes back to work. It's like the opposite of Andy Kaufman. Yeah. where he's like dying and visiting. And he's like, oh, this is all kind of a joke. They're not actually curing me. Right, right, right. He's sort of like, I have been right the whole time.

Yeah, yeah. I need to go back to where it can be meaner. Yeah. But yeah, you get the sense that Johnny Ive is like his true love. And this is when the think different commercial comes out, which is the one where here's to the crazy ones. And it's like pictures of, you know, RFK and John Lennon and Gandhi. And he's heavily involved.

RFK? Yeah, RFK. not junior. Okay, senior. That makes it. It's like, 20. Yeah.

It's him with a bunch of road kill. He's fighting on it. No, literally the crazy ones, which they tried to get Tom Hanks to do the voiceover for that before settling

for Richard Dreyfus. I didn't realize that that was Dreyfus's voiceover. They also have such a good partnership with this advertising company that they roll with

for a while that they eventually cut ties with. And I think that might have been Cook that cut ties with them and start doing in-house. Uh-huh. And you immediately sort of noticed this like, I would call it more homogenized feels.

You couldn't immediately tell it was them. Right. Because everyone started ripping them. And then they met back towards the middle. And then all ads started to feel the same. Yeah. They, yeah, I think that was the same, because it was the same advertising agency

that did their logo and did the 1984. And he just sort of rolls with them through to like, I think the early tens somewhere in there. And then 2001 is the year that they change how, we listen to music with the iPod and then the iTunes store comes after it and I feel like that was a such a big like I feel like I needed to do this research to fully remember like how shitty my music collection was before the iTunes store when everything was just like a series of misspelled songs attributed to like the wrong people and thought you were getting that puddle of mud album but it was just some guy's demo from yeah like sounded like shit and And also I had no on-off switch, the iPod, which he later attributed to maybe being part of his fear of death. But introduced all these products at much-hyped conferences with the Steve Notes, which I do think ends up being like his most iconic moments. Yeah, the thing he might associate him with him most is his presenting of the things rather than actually what they are.

Yeah, exactly. the iPhone comes next. I do think it's important to stop down here and note that this wasn't an unbroken chain of success, but just to avoid an inaccurate picture of how success works. They tried the rocker before the iPhone, which was the Motorola. Like it was an iPod mixed with Motorola.

Oh, yeah. That flop. Too many books. Yeah, exactly. Also some horrible mouses. It's just coming from someone who had to work there. some of those mouse's fucking sucked. Yeah, they really were.

The only round one? Oh, yeah. Who wants to hold that? Yeah. But it was the good aesthetic of the clear. I loved the clear. Yeah. I remember I had an adapter for that mouse that made it more ergonomic for that first

iMac. Yeah. Because it was just like a hockey puck shape. Yeah, it was horrible. And they had like a plastic like sleeve. You could just attach. So, like, had a little bit more. Yeah.

Yeah. Are you sure? We have a dongle for hands. Otherwise, yeah. just kind of fuck around with it in a confused manner. Always had pretty nice keyboard, but God, I hated the mouse's. He rehearsed his iPhone presentation for five days. Part of this was to hone his onstage delivery,

but even more critical was to make sure that the live product demo actually worked because the phone that he was demonstrating was unfinished. It was a prototype. Engineers were still working out bugs in the iPhone that would cause it to freeze or shut down when running multiple applications. And so pull off the demo, he and his team, choreographed each step of the demo to minimize bugs and switched through multiple iPhones

during the presentation to avoid overloading the memory of any individual gadget. That's how early they were. He was like, yeah, I just know I'm going to make people make this work for the time it needs to ship. I have this energy sometimes with like comedy things or I'm like, I have something I want to do and then I'll book the date at the venue before it's done.

And I'm like, well, now I'm going to let some people down. If I'm just going to let myself down, If I don't like have a deadline that will like ruin y'all's day, I will have a hard time getting self-motivated. So he's like, yeah, yeah, make, we're telling him this is coming out September 6th. Right. Well, this has to come out September 6th. I guess we've sold a million. Yes, when it's coming out.

Yeah. He also did this like the, I think it was the Apple 2 when they debuted that. He had like three of them on a desk and then like a hundred boxes behind him, but they were all empty. Like they had only made three of them. So, uh, there's. some good hater quotes at this time from Steve Balmer. At $500, it was by far the most expensive mobile phone on the market. Steve Balmer says it wasn't going to be successful because it was the most expensive phone on the market. And it doesn't appeal to business customers because it doesn't

have a keyboard over the next three years. Keep in mind, this guy invested, came to LA and invested in the Clippers. Yeah. And then illegally paid Co-Wilellender allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly. he gets he gets shit on quite a bit and the uh balmer does yeah he jobs is like well you knew they were fucked

when they let balmer take over he's a sales guy he doesn't like understand anything about what people want he's just selling it like blindly he doesn't stink like shit

he doesn't put a sheet in the toilet he's not doing a bunch of ass he wants to give out throws for free that's his basketball quote not jobs real sports you can be charged

you can be charging for those clothes We love Shea. Apple sold 90 million units in the iPhone account for more than half of the profits of the entire global mobile phone market in the first three years on the market. Kids who are getting their first device was an iPhone 4 or later.

Cannot understand how intuitive yet limited the first iPhone was. It was almost, apps didn't exist. He didn't think the app store was a viable thing, which was such a bizarre, like, misstep on his point. he thought everyone would just use hyperlinks and make web versions of what, but it was like, it did nothing. Right, right, right, right.

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like in these biographies, like, a lot of the, like, those sorts of decisions, he tried to sell Apple to Atari and Commodore, like, the first time. And they were like, get out of here. You smell like shit. Like, those are like... Dude, I even know what this pitch is, man.

You smell like shit. I can't even focus on it. There's a lot of... There's just a lot of these things that are, you know, the rocker, like these things that kind of get written out of the story because we just want a story of like the great man theory of which. Or even like, yeah, like the emotional terror that he imparted on like engineers with like the development of like the iPhone and stuff where it would be like it's impossible to make this thing. He's like, well, then I'll fire you and I'll find somebody that will do that. I think that's where he got into computer animation movies.

He's like, oh, you can abuse employees legally. Huh. Great. I'm surprised he had game development wasn't like. X for him. Yeah, I'd like to make into the spiderverse. Yeah, I'm making GTA6. When asked what kind of market testing goes into making a product like

the iPhone or iPad job said none, it's not the consumer's job to know what they want. I actually love that. That is like unfortunately something I love about it. It's like art, you know, in that sense. It's like, I'm not make, look, I'm making the right thing and it'll appeal to people. I'm not making the he does like have an artistic

sensibility, a sense of like what is going to be cool. So he's diagnosed with cancer in 2003. And, like, this is, so he gets this, like, crushing diagnosis, it's pancreatic cancer at a time. Doctors are, like, you're, like, you should get your affairs in order unless it's this one in, like, 20, you know, 5% chance that it's this one type of pancreatic cancer that's, like, not always deadly.

It is that. He gets incredibly lucky. They're like, oh, my God. Like, this is amazing. We can save you. We just need to, like, operate on you now, like, yesterday. day. We need to operate on you. And for nine months, he ignores the pleas of his doctors. Oh, man. Like, this is, this is where it's not so great to be a single-minded, intensely driven

person who thinks outside of the box and convinced that, and is convinced that they're always right. You know, he's basically like, I'm going to beat cancer by a- Scareing the shit out of it. Juice fast, herbal remedies, and acupuncture. And, hey, poke my cancer. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, right. get this, get this moving.

But yeah, he, which is a little bit like somebody who's a lifelong alcoholic being like, I'm going to beat cancer with whiskey, you know? Right, sure, sure. Like, I'm going to beat my cancer with fucking my eating disorder. I always, like, have a uncomfortable amount of comfort making fun of him for this decision, but mostly it's like anger at him because he had this horrible relationship with children and various levels of toxic relationship with his kids. And so it's like, you have a family and people who, who,

also need you to be around in some capacity. So the selfishness is what frustrates me. If you're like completely alone, I really don't care what you're doing and taking choice. It's not even the company thing. It's like, it's a selfish decision from like a family's sake

to just be like, but. But it sounds like to him, he's like family? Yeah. What are you talking about? Didn't their dad me left them? Yeah. Didn't my their dad?

Didn't my their, their own dad leave them me? Yeah. So, yeah, his wife starts like trying to get him to talk to eating disorder specialists at the end of his life. He doesn't do it. He believes in this guy, Arnold Aaron, who lived in 1866 to 1922. His main innovation was a fruit regiment diet as well as a lot of germ theory denialism.

You can tell it worked because he lived to be about the average age. He actually died. He died from falling and cracking his head on the street. And people think it was because he was lightheaded from like, never eating. So that, which is something that his wife, like, has to be like, Steve, this guy who you think is going to, yeah. So anyways, it's, he ends up, you know, not making it after he does eventually get surgery

back and forth, but eight years to, almost eight years to the day after his diagnosis, he dies at 56 years old. Damn. Yeah. He did a lot. I'll say like his legacy is you know,

the really cool shit that he built. I think there's like some tech bros getting the wrong message. Like Elizabeth Holmes kept coming up in my mind. Sure.

She mimicked him for her cover, right? Yeah. And she also did like the thing of him presenting the iPhone before the technology actually worked. Right, right,

right. She had none of the parts for the iPhone right even existing. It's like if you'd pitch the iPhone in 1940, I'm like, and I'll make the iPhone and people are like, what's a computer?

Right. You got me. You almost got to respect that. Yeah. I feel like that and just that reality distortion field. What's media literacy for a guy's behavior? Right. Where people are like getting the wrong things from where they're like,

that guy from American Psycho is cool. Right. Yeah, yeah. What's media literacy for people? So I got to really get into Genesis, I think, is the deal. Wait, what? And everything else comes downstream from that. That's what you totally.

Colin. He really like Bill Collins. Yeah. Anything else that you guys want to talk about about Steve Jobs? So I'll tell you this. When I worked there, I worked at a 24-hour Apple store. Oh, my God. And we never closed.

The only time we closed while I worked there was Hurricane Sandy. And even then it was only one night. And then we opened so people could come charge their computers, use the internet. We activated all the phones so people could make calls. This was a cool Apple thing I really loved. Wow. And it was not a micro or a macro scale. It was like a, the store decided to do this.

But when the only other time we closed was when he passed away, they did a, not a funeral, but like a, uh, uh, the company in Cupertino was live streaming an event to celebrate Steve Jobs. And we closed the store for this. So we could watch it at like 2 p.m. on some weekday. And cold play played a song or whatever. And I remember having, I was sitting there thinking like, but he had the only curable type of the thing he had.

Right. And this feels wild to do. And it was sort of like you see the dividing line. I think I even said something. I was like, wouldn't it be crazy if he, you know, got surgery instead of eating bananas and the store was open right now. And you get like, it's kind of like, I had one foot out the door the whole time. Yeah, yeah.

They're like, oh, come on, Kyle. But even Coldplay playing his quote unquote corporate funeral said, he always told us we weren't that good and would never make it. Wow. Here's yellow. Right. Which felt like a tone deaf song just based on how the cancer was affecting his like skin. Right.

And felt like it was just so crazy. But I was like, this is funeral. And these people are like, they're not even saying it as a gotcha. Right. We'll show you. They were like, and he ended up liking us a little. Like you were still like yearning for his whatever. Chris, I don't remember the guys, the singer Cole plays.

Chris Martin. Chris Martin. I'm sick Chris Pine. I wish. Yeah. That dude rules. And it was like that was the energy. And everyone was like, Steve would always do that thing where he got down on all fours behind me

and had someone pushed me over. and well, just, you know, and that really helped me into the man I am, a guy who's back hurts. Right, right. And I'm, and yet it's like, I'm the guy who came up with the escape key.

And it's like, it was this the entire day. And it's like, it was such an odd. Everyone's, it's like he ran a frat, everyone rushed. Right.

Right, right, right. And so you felt like you were in, or he was like, the head, it was like a militant, but not from like, like, level of like,

we've all been abused in a similar way. Right. Oh, but look at what it did to us. Right. It's like if someone's dad is very abusive to them,

they feel like that's why they succeeded. And you, but you don't know. Yeah. It was such an odd thing. You know, that's just like, but people were like,

while that was happening, people were that day putting murals up on the cube on the side of the store. I worked at customers were coming by. And you're like, well, the customers are even a little crazier

than most of the people who worked there. And they're like, this became like a mecca where people from all over New York and all, all over the region came and like put stuff and murals and art and all this stuff all over the cube.

And it was this like, and it looked kind of cool and it was like a nice thing. And then one day I showed up to work and just a, uh, janitor was throwing it all away. And I was like, there we are. And I was like, you know what? Because that's how it is. Because we still need to open back up and make $1.4 million today throw away that child's drawing of a guy in a turtleneck and let's move on because I would have hated it.

As capitalism says, the show don't stop. And it was like six, like 12 human hours. Right. Whatever. They're like, the flowers are dead. And it's like a guy like scooping it with a shovel, like a New York sanitation worker.

You know, driving over it with a lawnmower. A riding lawn mower. Just like, just getting people in line. The thing Steve Bouchemies put through in Fargo. Like they're just shoving it in there. And I remember just like,

and I'm not that smart and I'm not that deep. And I was just like, this feels like all of it at once. Yeah. Yeah. Sure, sure. And I felt a little bit of what I, ever when he passed away while I was working there.

But ultimately, on my micro scale, I loved the company and how it was then. And once Tim Cook took over, it kind of progressed into this more of like a less artistic, more formulaic. I became less of a person helping a person more of a flow chart that could feign empathy. Sure.

And that was sort of my outs with the company in addition to like more comedy pursuits. But it was such an odd. That felt like everything with him at once. Right, right, right. The whole service, which was just an internal stream, and you're like, oh my God, it's so great.

And there's like, 200 people working. And then they're like, he always told us we weren't that good. Yeah. Here's the scientist. Love you, dad. No one said anything like,

no, his family's not really there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's such an odd thing. And you're like, I think everyone's only there because everyone else is only there. Right, sure. Very bizarre. And I think he's just like, yeah,

like with a lot of these icons, they sort of cease to just be looked at as humans. Like, even for like what they do, it's just sort of like, the thing that came from their work. is why, like, I don't, like, you're like, yeah, he was a shitty dad. Like, I remember the IMAQ. Yeah.

You know, and it's one of those things that I think so many people, too, like, especially for millennials, so much of my own creativity, like, sprung out of, like, Apple applications, like, I movie and stuff. It was cool. It was creative. It was also, and I do think, having taught classes there and stuff, I was to have such a fondness for people's ability to use it without being worried about breaking it. Yeah.

Because the entry point for computers for so long was such a like a learning curve. Yeah, right. And people come in to like, I don't want to touch anything to make a movie because I'm so worried about it. And I'm like, you won't break, unless you're trying to, you're not going to like break the iOS software. Here's the secret. Steve Jobs thinks you're a fucking idiot. Here's the secret. The guy who made this doesn't know how to use it.

And also, he doesn't respect you and knows you're an idiot. So he made it idiot proof. But I have all these fond memory. I ran like movie camps for kids in Chicago where they were they to play I movie and shoot on phones. and all these cool things. The accessibility and entry point and the idea that everyone would want to be creative if they were allowed to is something he was correct about.

But does it offset me wanting to just dunk on his horrible decisions for the rest of my life? No. Not really. And now that I know he's stump, that's that new one. Stinky. Oh, that's like the thing. Yeah.

Number one thing. Orientation day one. First of all, guys, the rumors aren't true about Steve Jobs stinking. He doesn't stink. There were no showers in our hotels we stayed at. just so we can all try and stink like him and Cupertino. Yeah, I think people, we were actually talking

in our recent episode when we were talking about cult documentaries and the proliferation of cult documentaries that I think people were like, have been dying for a cult to like deliver them from the bad system that we're all stuck inside of. Right. And, you know, people watch cult documentaries. But I think Apple was like a moment where people were like,

could this actually be one that works? to give me gimme otts yeah give me 04 through the iPhone 4 yeah which hilariously we didn't get that about and I think when someone found the prototype at a bar is one of the funniest things and it was a writer for gizmodo yeah incredible thing to happen like a movie he was pretty cool about that I think

there's no way that guy's alive if one person's been replaced by a bot yeah yeah it's his brain inside of a robot yeah yeah uh Kyle thank you so much thanks for having me Where can people find you, follow you, see you, and all that good stuff? The Apple Store 5th Avenue downstairs R095 is their internal number.

I wish that wasn't in my head still, but now it's in yours. 24-hour Apple Store. If you're in Manhattan and you need a nice restroom, it's the best one. And just so you know, it's downstairs to the left of the Genius Bar. But you can find me at Kyle Ayers on most things. There you go. Amazing. Well, I'm going to be in that bathroom.

There you go. Or in your local toilet. Just my feet in there. He would love those drops at Wrigley Field. Oh, yeah. Just playing with the urinal. Swirching them around in there. Life moves fast, and when you need more room,

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not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. The worst singer in the group? The worst?

Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yardt, but they're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle-aged, one erection.

Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Huber me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back.

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Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo.

Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. All right. that was Steve Jobs. Thank you to Kyle Ayers,

Miles Gray, to Dave Ruse for the research on this one. The primary sources that we used were the Isaacson biography, Small Fry, the memoir by his daughter, Lisa Brennan Jobs. I also listened to the Behind the Bastards

back when that came out a few years back with Robert Evans and Ed Zittron. If you enjoyed this, recommend that one. that's a four-episode humdinger. All right, this is the No, No, No, No, No. No. No. Book dump. In addition to the Infinite Jest prediction

for how the iPhone would break our brains, I also want to shout out Ray Bradbury, who saw this future of hours before Infinite Just. The scenes at home in Fahrenheit, 451, where his wife is like always in a media coma of sorts. I just, I always think of that scene when I notice the front of my shirt is saturated with my own drool after staring at my phone for 30 minutes. But yeah, Bradbury also I feel I got that a media coma would seem especially comfy during a fascist takeover.

I wonder if after we revolt or apocalypse our way into whatever comes next, I wonder if people will be so drawn into the warm bath that is our phones when we don't, you know, when our reality doesn't so closely match the humans as batteries seen in the Matrix. For anyone noticing, yes, we've had two CEOs in a row and a Wintour and job. after a sterling, no-hitter, no CEO run of icons prior to this. I think these will be the only CEOs for a while, which, you know, two CEOs is too many, and I apologize. But it's also kind of amazing how few iconic CEOs we have in general,

like in a country where corporations are so powerful. And CEOs want to be so cool and iconic, so much of the time, that they like rewrite their lives into heroes journeys, that they're just like too lame. Like we've talked before about how so many of our icons start out, poor to middle class, jobs included, by the way, that's another reason that he was lucky to be adopted. And the job of the CEO is to speak the language of the board

who are regularly just, generally other very rich people. So, yeah, I don't know. Not a good track record for CEOs when it comes to iconography. Speaking of the board, we didn't really get into the launch of the Apple store as much, which the Isaacson book points out,

jobs, innovates, a bunch of things. Entering the 90s, you'd think that this particular guy would have no business affecting. like consumer tech makes sense, but also like animation, the music industry, how we buy music, and retail stores is the other area

that is kind of very surprising if you are just kind of looking at it again with fresh eyes. And each of those seems crazy at the time too. When he's launching the Apple store, people are like, what the fuck are you even talking about? Like, why do the stairs need to be glad? Why are you spending so much money on this?

Tech is sold at warehouses. And the quotes from the haters before the launch of the Apple store are particularly great. There's this Bloomberg headline from May 21st, 2001, that says, Sorry, Steve, here's why Apple stores won't work. And another quote from the time, I give it two years until they're turning out the lights on a very expensive mistake. And then, of course, the Apple store sets records and retail sales and has continued to ever since and kind of saves retail. And the board fights that one too.

They kind of fight every good idea. The process of putting that sort of unprecedented winning streak together is Steve Jobs always having to fight against the way capitalism works to get the good idea done. like to stop down and make expensive delays. I do, I keep coming back to that idea, specifically like the idea of Xerox Park. The Xerox, you know, corporate leadership had the smart idea of having a place where the developers could roam free

and invent the future, and the developers do it. They do that. They invent the graphical user interface. They invent the mouse. and the corporate leadership can only have the one isolated good idea of like letting them create the park. There's still a corporate board and it's like, no, you're just going to return to the mean. You're going to return to the standard gravitational equilibrium of like we can't stop ourselves from doing what boards do and that is making bad decisions.

And so we're going to, yes, create the ability, the place for, for you guys to create the future. We're just going to ignore it and sell it off in pieces. And you kind of see this in the job story over and over again. Every time he has a good idea, he has to kind of fight and threaten to quit as late as the Apple store to get it through. The board's like, I don't know, Steve.

Like, you know in procedural TV shows where you keep expecting the supporting characters to stop doubting, like, Dr. House, you know, after he's been right 300. times in a row and you know you start to expect people to be like you know what i'm gonna go with your gut on this one since it's been right every episode uh but instead over and over and over they're like preposterous sir uh that that is kind of how the steve jobs story reads like it's yeah i guess and it's for that reason not surprising that silicon valley took the exact wrong

lesson from his miraculous run of good products. Like they were just, they were dying to take the wrong lessons as the successes were happening. And so once he was gone, they were just like, all right, we're taking this one directly into the shitter. But yeah, doing this CEO kind of corporate focused episode of the iconograph, I am more convinced than ever that like when it's all said and done, we'll look back at this period of like corporate rule that we're, living through and laugh at how poorly designed corporate America was, like how bad the decision making was, how hard people had to work to get its main engines, corporations to not make the

exact wrong decision every time. And yeah, I feel like we currently exist in a system based around the idea that, like, this is a good way to run the world. We have stock index weather channels devoted 24 hours a day to retconning logical narratives onto just this sort of sinister randomness. But yeah, I came away from the most CEO ass iconograph we've done yet being like, man, this is this is a bad system. We got, we got to fix this. I do think just generally the Isaacson biography and a lot of what gets written about Steve Jobs today is kind of retconed into the form of, like, the tale of genius. And I did try to include details that fall out of line with that,

like, that are more in line with history as it was being lived at the time that, like, before the iPhone, there was the Motorola Rocker or whatever the fuck it was called, um, that he wanted to sell Apple to Atari and Commodore. And in both cases, like, I guess he, like, smelled too bad for them to take him serious. I will say the source that seems to give the best reality distortion field proof details is Small Fry by Lisa Brennan Jobs. I could have literally spent half the recording talking about the details of

him as seen by her being an asshole from that book. And like, she's giving him the benefit of the doubt. And still, it's just like, I don't know. It's not a, you know, when he's an asshole in the Isaacson book, it's usually a this will forward the interests of Apple and allow me to create great products that will change the world way. And in the Lisa Brennan Jobs, Small Frye book, it's more of a, doesn't have control of the forces

that shape his own humanity and is like being torn apart by that dissonance kind of way. There's scenes where he like screams at his daughter at age seven for eating a hamburger. Like he, like shrieks at her. Like the people at the table are like, to get yourself together. He has to get up and leave the table

because she eats a hamburger. And he's like, you need to work on yourself. I think he says to her. When she heard a rumor that Steve Jobs got a new Porsche every time it got a scratch and she's like driving with him in the Porsche. And she jokingly asks if she could have one of his old ones

and he shouts back, you're not getting anything. You understand nothing. You get nothing. It's like a fucking Will Ferrell crazy character. And in one of their last conversations, Lisa forgave Steve Jobs for missing so many birthdays and milestone moments since she knew he was so busy running Apple. And Jobs replies, it wasn't because I was busy. It was because I was mad, you didn't invite me to the Harvard

weekend, referring to some perceived slight from Lisa's college days, which again, like, perceived manufactured discontent does seem to be important to these globe-dominating icons, as we talked about in last week's Anna Wintour episode. Instead of telling Lisa, at the end,

I'm sorry, he keeps repeating, I owe you one, I owe you one, which is just kind of heartbreaking, pretty upsetting. One of the weirdest things about the Isaacson book, I will say, is that the author kind of implies that Lisa's a bit of a handful at the

feels like you might want to give the emotionally abused child the benefit of the adult over her emotional abuser. And lastly, since we're going through a run of icon-driven blockbusters at the time that this episode publishes with Michael and the Devil Wears Prada too, I do just want to end on movies. I've spoken before on here about how important movies are to iconography and just generally shaping how we picture here. history. And so I do think it's just interesting that both Steve Jobs movies kind of didn't do that

well. And I want to like kind of think through why that might be. I mean, the first one, obviously, the movie people kind of would want to watch where you see the rise and fall and rise again of this genius is the Ashton Coucher one. But you watch the trailer and it's Ashton Coucher dressed up as Steve Jobs looking dim with it. Like, you wouldn't even buy it as a Halloween costume. It's kind of a more iconic example of a famous person being unable to see themselves or understand how people see them than it is an iconic, you know, vision of Steve Jobs. It's, you know, a biopic about a towering figure.

Everyone thinks it is the greatest genius of our time. And he was like, sounds like a job. for me, Kelso from that 70s show. So it's not surprising to me. That one didn't work, but it does seem like they took the format people prefer for a biopic

and then just like did it badly right away. So it's like, well, there goes that. But it is interesting that the Oscar-nominated one didn't do better. Like the movie Steve Jobs, directed by Danny Boyle,

came out in 2015. It was 173rd at the global box office in that year. It got lapped by movies like Mordecai. If you don't remember Mordecai, Mordecai is that movie. It was like the third movie that let us know that the Johnny Depp thing was over. It was a movie that asked the question, what if Johnny Depp had a mustache, but like a different one than the one you're familiar with?

And yeah, like, why did that movie? Why did Jupiter ascending destroy this Steve Jobs biopic, which, like, it didn't come out too early. You know, it was years after he died. It had an Oscar-winning director and Danny Boyle. It's sorking coming off the Oscar for the Social Network, which the Social Network is basically a spiritual sequel to this movie. And, yeah, I mean, some people have spent. It's a fast bender problem. Like, he's never really been a box office draw.

He does get nominated for an Oscar for playing Steve Jobs, but people, I guess, this theory goes, just don't want to watch him, do it. But I actually, like, so I did watch that movie for this iconograph. And I feel like it's actually a Sorkin problem. Like, he crams everything into these three moments, like Saturday night style. I always talked about Saturday night as this. movie where like everything that happens in the first 10 years of SNL, they just like imply that it all happened on the first, like right before the first episode aired.

And that's kind of what they do with this Steve Job one. All of his personal and business relationships come to a head in the 30 minutes before he's about to launch like three important products. And it's also like Aaron Sork and Newsroom shit where Steve Jobs actually like kind of knows everything that's going to happen in the future. Like, he's launching his failed product, but he, like, knows that it's going to fail. And he's like, the reason I'm launching this shitty product

is because it's going to have a great operating system that's going to allow me to come back to power at Apple. And there's a part in the, at the end of it, where he, like, tells his daughter he's going to invent the iPod. Like, four years, it's, like, not even really close to happening. He's like, I'm going to put a thousand songs. in your pocket. It's just like, I don't know, that's not

how history works. I don't think most biopics are like accurate, but like that, for instance, that's what's so good about the social network. They invent Facebook because they think it's going to get them late and because Mark Zuckerberg

is a spiteful little asshole. Whereas the Boyle Fastbender movie makes job this like Ubermensch. And I honestly, I I really think what would have been helpful is if they had made him smell like shit when we meet him, at least in the early days. They show him dip his feet in the toilet, but it's so out of context. First of all, it's a toilet dip.

It's not a toilet bathing. And it's just so out of context. And Fastbender is already, like, so hot and, like, he seems so smart because he's a, you know, swerking character that your brain kind of, like can't even accept that it happened. I feel like if people in the movie, like when you first meet Steve Jobs, are reacting to him the way they did in reality early in his career. Like he's disgusting and you're kind of like,

well, this isn't what I expected. It must be true. I feel like that's kind of what we look for is like, oh, interesting thing I didn't know from this biography. like he was nasty. He was

impossible to spend time around. Atari created a fake graveyard shift to get away from him. And in the movie, he's just a charismatic CEO the entire time. And in reality, it feels like this guy who is impossible

to be around eventually becomes this visionary. Like, for those Atari people, like think about it must have been like such a mind fuck, like such a plot twist that he became Steve Jobs. It's like verbal kint turning into Kaiser Soze at the end. It's sort of the last thing you expect. Anyways, that's my advice for you, Aaron Sorkin, to go back and rewrite that movie. I will say it's a good movie. But the way it landed in our culture,

it like just didn't, I guess it didn't feel definitive. And I feel like someone else is now going to have to make another Steve Jobs biopic. which is probably the last thing we need. All right. That's going to do it for Steve Jobs. We are back next week with his favorite musician, Bob Dylan, someone who does have a number of definitive, iconic movie versions of his life story that are frequently completely full of shit.

So yeah, next week, Bob Dylan with Chris Crofton. And more zeitgeist in the meantime. We'll talk to you then. Bye. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless.

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That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, in every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headlines. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlic on the IHeart Radio app,

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