The Daily Zeitgeist - Icon #26 - Amelia Earhart: First In Flight, Last In Safety

Episode Date: June 15, 2026

In this edition of The Iconograph, Jack and Miles are joined by comedian Francesca Fiorentini to talk about a true pioneer in the sport of belly-slamming: Amelia Earhart! They'll explore her upbringing, her many jobs to support her flying habit, her beef with rabbit meat and much more!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Wow. We're calling it the iconograph. Instead of looking at the zeit guys through current events on Monday mornings, we're looking at the Zykeyes through the powerful pop cultural deities that are our icons. This week we're talking about the most daring pilot of the 20th century and the best example of nominative determinism that I think we've come across yet. Amelia Earhart. She fucking heart the air. But her name is spelled Ear. It's in the name.

It's it, but it's, it's all about what it is out loud, you know? All right. Earhart. It's like she was named by George Lucas with a head injury. I was always hung up by that as a kid. Like, reading, I'm like, what the fuck is I've been saying? It was Earhart, man. Yeah, but Earhart.

I don't know, I don't know if it was like a Ariana, Ariana Brandy situation where they're like, let's give it a little more class. Let's get her a little bit more flight in her name and go from Earhart to Earhart. I've spent this time while you guys have been, you know, squawking about pronunciation. Just to Google. Just to Wikipedia what nominal determinism is because I don't forget and I don't know. And so it is exactly in the name. That's what it is.

It's your name. Your name implies what you're going to do. Yeah. And I don't know what that would make my name. like just a like fat Italian hooker I feel like is my that's what my name is. Yeah. Is that what Fiorantini means? No, it means a little flower, but you know, you know that where that flower is, though, you know.

I do. This little flower. But you could also be like a slender Italian hooker too. Yeah. I like being fat. I want to be fat in my. You could be a tiny flower too. It just gets trampled.

You know what it wouldn't be. It's funny. if it's Fiorentini is a tiny one. But if it were a fat Italian hook, it would be like Fiorentoni, you know, that would be... Fior Antonio. Fior Antonio. Fior Antonio Spurs, bro.

I think mine would be a alcoholic who jacks off a lot, I guess. Jack O'Brien. Yeah. And I'm just cement. I'm a cement road. Miles Gray. Yeah. That's just all...

I think that works. Yeah, Miles Gray can go... Like, you know, you rock the name, but yeah, it could just be like, hi, I'm in my name Miles. Miles Gray. And like, oh, shit, he's here again. Oh, my God. No. Fuck.

These are some of our new pavers we're offering today. Oh, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. It's actually really exciting. I'm joined by my co-pilot Miles Gray. Hey, man, I'm excited for this one. Good buddy. Miles above. I've grown up passively with Amelia Earhart around me growing up.

Yeah, a lot of places claim Amelia. Airhart. Like she's not from L.A. She, like, did some work in L.A. She had a house here. She did have a house here. Her house she lived in when she vanished was on Valley Spring Lane. Good thing about being a pilot. You can live a lot of different places. She was also like teaching at Purdue University, living in Rye, New York. She was just all over the fucking country.

Come on, man. I'm excited. I'm excited to hear about all the other families that, you know, she started in different places. Right? Can you do that as a woman? Yeah, right. Should be able to. For her, hell, yeah.

A little bit more physically taxing, probably. But in our third seat, a brilliant comedian writer, journalist, activist, you know from places like Al Jazeera, MSNBC, from the podcast, the Bituation Room. Yeah. It's Francesca Fiorentina. Little flower. Donnie. The little flower flametheny. Hey, come over here.

Come over here. Get a taste of this little flower. What a great sales pitch on the street. Hey, hey, you. You. Hey. get a little flower No, but Fiorentini

Like I used to, when I was little, I would be like Francesca Fiorentini, Torralini, what are the other pastas? I forgot. Yeah, I guess you could be just leaning into your heritage, just a person made out of pasta if we were going with knowledge of determinism. An artist who's like kind of a fan of a lot of lefty shows did a rendition

of me as a pasta. Oh, Jesus. But like a garbage pale kid pasta. It was very cute. Oh, that's cute. Mm-hmm. I mean, there is a postic called. Surentini, though, too.

There is. There's a, what? Yeah. I'm hungry. It's like a screwy half-shell thing. That is me. Screwing and a half-shell right here. Hey.

You know what I'm saying? Oh, yeah, bro. All right. Amelia Earhart. Yes. Let's get the fuck down to it, you guys. When I said I was doing an episode. The only female pilot.

Ever. They stopped letting them be allowed. to do it. Because of what she did. She was too good. So they didn't let us in the field anymore. It's crazy. The shit she had to deal with the stereotype, not just stereotypes, the rules around women flying were crazy as we'll get to. They had to fly side saddle. They weren't allowed to. Did they say stuff like flying would like make them infertile or some shit? Like there's always like that weird. If they run too hard, their uterus will flop out. Miles, they were not allowed to fly.

This was like on the books. They were not allowed to fly period first. As we'll get to, the thing she becomes famous for first is just being a passenger in a plane that goes over the Atlantic. She's on the front page of the New York Times the day after she's in a plane

that goes over the Atlantic. And people are like, wow, wowee. But it's sort of like dog in space, woman and plane, you know? That's exactly what it's. it was at first. And then she fucking flies across the Atlantic solo and people

their fucking heads exploded. But there was literally a law or a rule. I don't think it was like a legal thing, but a flying, you know, aviation regulation that women were not allowed to fly three days, within three days of their mencies. Wow. Yeah. And that was like she used her

fame. That's amazing. To do research to try to debunk that fact, as we'll get to. Okay. God, I fucking hate patriarchy. It's so wild. I'm going to use all of my resources to prove women can be in planes

within three days of their menstrual cycles. To prove a thing that I've already just proven with my fucking actions by flying across the Atlantic in something with like the risk. With the engine of a fucking lawnmower. Yeah, but here's the thing, guys. We don't know if her uterus fell out. when she got back.

It's somewhere in the Atlantic. Yeah. When I told my son I was doing Amelia Earhart, he said, oh, spooky, because I've taught him to fear powerful women. No, because I think he associates her with disappearance. And I think, like, in our collective, Google hive mind, I think people half expect to hear the X-File sting when you hear her name because, like, she's just become unsolved misconduct. history kind of.

She's like not a full Hoffa. Like, Hoffa is just like somebody whose disappearance is essentially all I knew about him. Right, right, right. But I think she's like half a Hoffa. Like, I think a lot of people probably the first thing they hear about Amelia Earhart at this point is that she disappeared. Well, that's crazy because, I mean, at this point, maybe, maybe in your son's generation. Yeah.

These little gen alphas where the fuck they're doing. asking Grock, hey, Grock, where is Amelia Earhart? Oh. But like when we were young, it was like, no, this is a groundbreaking female pilot. Yeah. And we had no idea she just. I had no idea she disappeared. You didn't actually disappear.

I don't think I learned that until years later. Just now when you said that, Jack. This is breaking news. That's crazy. Yeah, because our, again, growing up in North Hollywood, there's Amelia Earhart all my high school library. I grew up one to. Yeah.

That was Amelia Earhart Library. There's a seven-foot statue in my background right here. The park, first park I saw a dead body out as a kid. And for that, we all knew. The first part? How many dead bodies in parks?

Top five parks you've seen a dead body. Yeah. Amelia Earhart. Yo-y Park in Tokyo and Hyde Park in London. No, but like we knew our thing was like we knew first pilot to go or a woman pilot to go across the Atlantic, like first to do many things,

and then terribly, and then vanished. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think I did like a book report or like some sort of like history, whatever, but like completely just didn't talk about the disappearance. I mean, it is like. It's the bummer.

It is like kind of the scary part. Maybe they did a better job of like keeping it from being the thing that they taught kids about before. But yeah, I mean, I think she, in her lifetime, she's surfing two historic waves, like women's empowerment and flight, you know, which were, like, those are history, like for millennia, white men have been obsessed with two things in addition to white supremacy. One, pretending that men are stronger and smarter and superior to women. And two, flying like a beautiful bird in the sky, you know, those were like, that was all they cared about for so long. They were like, I want to be, I want to be, I just want to be like a bird, beautiful bird in the sky. Dear God, please make me a bird so I can fly.

Far away from this place. And so she's around six when the Wright brothers take their first flight, and she's 23 when Congress passes the 19th Amendment. Jesus. Yeah. And like just from like the broad, stupid historical perspective that is like the level at which icons exist, I feel like she's the face of both of those things. Like she's not involved in the suffragette movement, but she, like I spent this past Monday,

my kid had like his third grade book report that I was there for. He did Houdini. But there was, there was an Amelia Earhart in there. Like I think she is kind of the early 20th century feminist, badass along with Marie Curie, you know? Like those are the two. Yeah, now they sell little feminist books for like babies.

Yeah, right. I picked up from one of those free libraries. And the first one was like Hillary Clinton. I'm like, oh. What else you got? What else you got? Fuck. But yeah, I think like they symbolized that energy and she's like definitely the only, so she's the only like woman besides Marie Curie from that era that I saw. And then she's the only pilot I saw of it because the kids all like dressed up as their heroes. And so like, but yeah, there were no kids like, I'm Charles Limburg. I blamed the Jews for getting us into World War II and thought Hitler had some good ideas. Like that that guy kind of tanked his.

iconography with his you know, being a big fan of the Nazis. Exactly, but to that point is that it's either the Wright brothers or Amelia Earhart, but yeah, that's about, like, Lindberg obviously doesn't get the flight cred. No. Yeah, he was so massive at the

time. It's like hard for us to understand how famous both of them were at the time. But, you know, I think Amelia Earhart is the flight icon. Like, I don't know what the fucking Wright brothers look like, to be honest with you?

I just think of the goofy-ass plane. Yeah, I can just look at the goofy-ass plane and like imagine them flying for like 60 feet over a cornfield and being like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That fucking counts. That fucking counts, dude. Count it. There's, because there's like, there is that video footage of them or is that like renditions we've seen?

I don't know. Yeah, I think that's renditions. I think, I think that's a classic rendish situation. That's a random situation. How many Wright brothers were there? I think just two. I know one of them was named Orville. That's all I got. There is one.

If they say this 1903 one seems to be the genuine article. That's the classic. Yeah. All right. So they were taking video. They were taking film. Yeah. Dude.

I mean, the first flight, man. You know what I mean? I just said, all right. Anyways. Enough of those fucks, dude. Should we get to know her a little bit? because I do think she kind of answered, what if Johnny Knoxville was a woman

who was six when the Wright brothers invented flight? She, so as a kid, she built a roller coaster in her backyard that was so, like, elaborate that it almost killed her. Like,

it wasn't like, you know, me building a roller coaster in my backyard. Like, I don't think it was at six. Oh, sorry. But she, as a kid.

Jesus. But if six, she was six when the Wright brothers flew. And that's effectively what they were doing. Yeah, yeah. She built a roller coaster almost died, but like it actually like worked. She was, she was smart. She was able to like, you know, convince older people to help her build a fucking roller coaster in the backyard.

Just the foreman for it. She was into belly slamming, which is what she called riding a sled head first over like bumpy terrain. But like people are like, you're going to fucking kill yourself. Nice. From day one. And she was just like throwing herself downhill head first all the belly slamming. Belly slamming is fun. I kind of,

I just love that term. And there's just a sense that like she doesn't experience fear in the same way that other people as she's about to take the solo flight across the Atlantic. The one that like is really, when you look at her life is the one that's really like, holy, holy shit, she did that. Like at the time, she's very famous for being in. the plane that had already crossed with male pilots. And they're like, she didn't like grab hold of the controls and crash the plane. But like the solo flight, as we'll get to his fucking bonkers. But it's also like so fucking dangerous.

Like to cross in these planes, like they, they had engines that are like the equivalent of like a modern sedan. And they're going across the entire Atlantic Ocean just like slow as hell with like a glorified fucking ceiling. ban propelling them. See, that's the, yeah, the, the, the, the, the fucking pace of it would kill me. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's just like up and down as much as it's going forward. So she had a zest for life, joy de vivre. Yeah, but she also just, like, has this, like, everybody's always like, she seems so calm, what the fuck's going on? She's, like, about to cross. Her friend comes to her and is telling her about all these safety features. She's added to her plane, uh, because

her, like, everybody at this time is like, we've got to be the first, I've got to be the first woman across. She hangs out with like nothing but people who are fucking lunatics and like fly and do crazy shit. And she's like, and then I got this like radio and then I got these like, uh, and you just like she's like sitting there just making the jack off hand motion in her mind the whole time. Like one of her famous. This is before her solo flight. This is before her solo flight. When she actually is flying flying. She's about to fly. But she's like keeping a poker face because she doesn't want to let her know because she doesn't want anybody to get the jump on her. So she has to like prepare to do this flight in secret. But her statement on

parachutes is I don't bother to pack a parachute because it isn't worth the weight. Wow. Dying. That's amazing. It's amazing. Yeah, it's not Joy de Vivis, joy de mort, whatever. She's got joy to both. Yeah.

But yeah, that's from. East to the Dawn, which is what I used a lot in this. Okay, so how did she learn how to fly? Are we going to go back to that part? Yeah, we will. We will. We will. I mean, she just takes classes and like kind of hustles. Like, it's very expensive. And so she's just having to hustle nonstop to pay for her flying habit. What kind of work is she doing to fund the teacher, a social worker, a truck driver, just like whatever will pay her. And then she like hits on the idea. Once she's. starts taking flying lessons, she becomes a columnist who writes about flying. And that like starts

making money for her, makes her a local celebrity in Boston. Boston also claims her in addition to Los Angeles. Oh, now it's fucking on. Yeah, yeah. Boston too. Okay. Similar to Knoxville, she kind of hangs out with a crew of people who seem hell bent on killing themselves spectacularly. I just want to read. Go ahead. Go ahead. You go ahead. I just, I just love the idea that. like, yeah, like your child, you don't want to, like, do drugs or, like, falling with the wrong crowd, but this wrong crowd is just like, you know, throwing themselves off of buildings or like, are you flying again, honey? Yeah, yeah, exactly.

You better not be flying. One of her good friends was this guy named Paul Mance. He's always at the house. He lied his way into the army by, like, stealing some Stanford stationary. You had to have, like, two years of college education. So he stole stationary from Stanford and just wrote a letter on it. And that worked. He got in, but as he's about to graduate from flying school,

he's flying solo over the Coachella Valley and sees a train heading west over the empty desert. He dives down and then is flying like a foot off the ground directly at the plane. And then like pulls up at the last second and like barrel rolls out and like gives them the finger. And the people in the train were on the way to the graduation ceremony. They were like the officers. And so he got dismissed from the army. and becomes like a Hollywood stunt pilot

where he like flew through a small hangar flew between two trees ripping off the wings like in a movie died in a plane crash while drunk driving an experimental aircraft in the 60s but yeah he like never stopped he once landed his personal plane on a aircraft carrier like those in Sanford like going under the Golden Gate Bridge

and then like as the military is like running out to like arrest him. He like took off again. Wow. This is like this is the crew is just like people like this. And yeah, like at one point in the biography, Butler just like casually mentions that her neighbor and Rye had the record for like transcontinental speed flight like the flight across the nation like fastest.

So it's just like all these people kind of pushing each other to do crazier and crazier shit. Which is what Victor saying that it's cool to have drunk drive an experimental plane. That is how he died, though. That's how he died. Yeah, yeah. Which what's nice about that is arguably, or probably he didn't take anyone out with him,

unlike drunk driving in the plane who was badly injured. That is the one thing you can't, like all of these people are usually have somebody in it. So like recklessness would be the big kind of, shouldn't have maybe done that. This is like what Harrison Ford did a few years ago, remember? Yeah, just joy rides in his little plane. Yeah.

He loves to crush it. Fun death drive. So, yeah, as she's about to leave on the solo flight across the Atlantic, like everyone's like, it's super tense because like, there's a very good chance she's going to die. Everybody who's like tried it up to this point. Like, there's a lot of people who have like died. She's like, oh shit, I just remembered there's like an article.

I'm supposed to turn in for Cosmo and like just like goes in and like makes a call and like sends a note like notes for an article to her managing editor and then gets in the plane. Like the last thing she does before is like Oh shit forgot to say Article on women's clothing stop What's the deal with the lack of pockets stop And then like seriously though In the plane

What is the deal with a lack of pockets? What is the fucking deal with a lack of pockets Also a lack of- Was that the trade-off? Like you can wear pants but no pockets No funny business You better not be going anywhere Yeah But yeah I do

wonder if she just like had something that was like different about her because everybody like and as we'll get to there's things that she's dealing with in the air that I feel like would it would be impossible for any anybody who has my level of fear response to not fucking die like it's just it's really impressive um also just generally seemed like really good time uh her husband, I just, have you guys ever read her pre-up? No, I love it. So she marries a guy who, uh, had been like really good for her career, but like, it was kind of an asshole. People, people don't seem to like him that much. We'll get into why. Um, but I'm just going to read a couple of things from, so she says, dear GPP, there's

some things which should be writ before we are married, things we have talked over before most of them. on our life together, I want you to understand, I shall not hold you to any medieval code of faithfulness to me, nor shall I consider myself bound to you similarly. Ooh. If we can be honest. I knew it was going to be Polly related.

Yeah, yeah. If we can be honest, I think the difficulties which arise may be best avoided, should you or I become interested deeply or in passing in anyone else. So it's just like, look. Either deeply or just like, Or in past, like, whatever. Sounds like an NBA player's pre-nup. Yeah, it's for real.

Shills is that I may have to keep some place where I can go to be by myself now and then, for I cannot guarantee to endure at all times the confinement of even an attractive cage. And then finally, I must exactly. I must exact a cruel promise. And that is, you will let me go in a year if we find no happiness together. Wow. Okay. First of all, the last two, I think every,

marriage should have. Yeah. Just be like we're good here, right? Like a year, if neither of us are happy, let's put out here. Yeah. And a year, we check it. What are we doing? And also, I'm going to need a place to go where I don't see you for a little bit. Yeah.

And you're going to need a place to go. Or you can stay here. I don't know, but you or me, we got to go. Yeah. And then we'll come back. This is a beautiful little prison, but it is a prison. In 28, or when did she, in like the 30s? 1920s.

90s. Yeah. That's beautiful. Because that feels like some 70s shit, you know? Yeah, yeah. Totally. And just like just sort of like the no emotion to it. I just like look, you know, like we're not going to be bound to each other.

If we meet somebody, then so be it. This is kind of the vibe. I'm going to write this down. This is shit that we've talked about most of it. Can you imagine? None of this. You didn't say any of this to me. My dear Amelia.

Well, it is what it is, man. Take it earlier. Yeah, yeah. Anyways, this is, that's the deal. those are the terms. But they have to have kids, though, right? They don't have kids.

So, yeah, he already has kids from a previous marriage. So they meet writing, like, the first book that makes her very famous. He's, he's, like, sort of a promoter.

He's, like, sort of her PT Barnum, which is a problem. Like, when you have somebody whose problem is that they're, like, a little too reckless, like, you don't want their life partner

to be a person who's like, yeah, yeah. Do that. That'll be profitable. You know? Like, yeah. So anyways, we'll get to why he was a bad partner. But also, he had a first marriage that he ended to, in a lot of the books, they're like, he left his wife to be with Amelia when in fact, in 1927, Putnam's wife, Dorothy Binney, heiress

to the Crayola fortune, traveled to South America and began a long, well-chronicled affair with George Weymouth, a man 19 years her junior. Hell yeah. So he was just like getting cucked left and right and seemed like maybe okay with it is the best thing you can say with him. I'm waiting for the other shooter drop, but I kind of like this guy. I'm like, you know what? Yeah. We need more betas.

I know. It's fine. Right? Just a proud beta. Just a proud cuck. I also just love this. We actually heard the term air to the Crayola fortune in that sentence. I'm like, okay.

heiress to the Crayola fortune. Edwin Binnie was her father. Yeah, yeah. Dorothy. She's like, I'm going to go. I'm going to be down here. Just a Latin lover. She, like, wrote a lot about it.

Right. She was like, God, this guy's, this guy's great. She wrote a lot about her, the new man. Yeah, the new man was like, it was a man 19 years her junior. I think she was 39. He was 20. And it was like, she, well documented for some reason. There's already a pattern here with him.

He likes strong women. Period. You know? Something about that. Yeah. I just, he was kind of an asshole when it came to specifically the final flight. got it ended up being a big mistake. All right, let's take a quick break.

We're going to come back. We'll talk about her weird rise to fame and then what she did when she was on top, which is pretty fucking crazy. The solo across the Atlantic, we'll be right back. Experience. You and a pal in Montreal and Oceaga with four nights at residents in downtown Montreal.

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And we're back. And so, yeah, just kind of going briefly over the rise. You know, like I said, she's a daredevil kid. When she's 23, she gets to ride in a plane at a Long Beach air show. And she was like, I knew from that moment forward that I needed to fly. She's extremely smart on multiple occasions. She's enrolled in Columbia University but is like forced to abandon her studies because of limited finances. But like some of the jobs she does, she's like a teacher, a social worker, wrote articles promoting flying in a local newspaper, becomes a local celebrity and is able to like kind of get good at it.

Social worker doesn't really fit like kid. what you need to do is you need to build the biggest trampoline the world has ever seen in your backyard, you know? That's how you get out of this situation. You got abusive parents?

How fast is your sled? Exactly. You like belly slamming? Yeah, more belly slamming. What can I recommend for you? Belly slamming. Also a truck driver. Very cool.

But it's just crazy where you're like, This is, and maybe it is a pilot thing. Maybe it's not. I don't know what it is. I don't think there's like a type, but they're pretty smart. Like, I've met, like,

I have a friend who I went to school with, like middle school or something, met up with him, and he was, you know, a pilot and eventually he did join the Navy because he just loves to fly, and there was like no other place. For someone who likes to fly, like, it's like the military or, you know,

and then eventually commercial and whatnot. but he was smart as shit. You know, we were like in the middle of, like he knew, we were in, this is a long, boring story, but we were just in Buenos Aires, and he knew like, north, south, east, west.

I know exactly where I'm going. Like, no GPS needed. Like, it was just, I don't know. It's, it's, um, yeah, there's a lot that goes into being a pilot. So for her to also be, like, good at all of these other things. Yeah. It's crazy.

Seems wild, but also kind of checks out with, like, how smart you do have to be to be a pilot. Yeah. To be a woman at this time. that like be a woman at a time when everyone's like she can't she's gonna bake her pilots log into a into a pie we can't let her near the flying equipment and so she just had to like work so so much harder than everybody I mean yeah to your point an option for people who like got the flying bug and it does like feel like it's an addiction to people who yeah like you know there's suddenly

just like fuck I can't not do this so how how am I going to do it? Like, the military was not an option for her. So everybody else can go with the military option and have, like, the best planes provided to them. She has to hustle. Like, she has to find ways to finance her shit. Because at the time, that was really the shorthand to learning out of fly is just joining

the military. Like, you're saying her friend fakes it, fakes his own whatever, his college degree. His Stanford education. Yeah. in order to get there. No, that's fascinating. Anyways, she gets her big break when, so following Lindbergh's famous flight,

there's interest in, quote, having a woman fly across the Atlantic, but not to actually pile out the aircraft herself. Dog in space. That was considered too dangerous. There had already been a bunch of attempts to repeat Limburg's flight. 55 people in 18 planes had attempted the trip,

five of whom were women, but only three planes succeeded. 14 people died, including three women. Everyone was, like, trying to do the same thing to Lindberg had. And, like, it was just not going well. And she is asked to be a passenger on this transatlantic flight called the friendship. Wait, hang on. Did those women die piloting or being a passenger?

No, being a passenger. That's crazy. Yeah. That must be that uterus, you know, just weighs it all down. That's what I was going to say. So fucking lead balloon. I'm glad you said it. Yeah.

because they must have been about to menstruate. Obviously, that's what happened here. I mean, there are. The moons and the tides. There's a lot of tides out there in the Atlantic. Wouldn't be me, pal. Wouldn't be me. Some of my favorite anecdotes that show how stupid history are are from like the evolution

of transportation. Like I remember reading that people like as trains are getting faster, there's like a real hesitancy to make trains go over. I think it was like 30 miles. hour because they were like, well, then the body's just going to explode. Body will just pop like a balloon at 33 miles per hour. And like when they were first thinking about doing flight, they would like send sheep up in hot air balloon because to make sure they didn't just pop.

I love that. But yeah, like to your question about like what were these women who died in flight. So the niece of Woodrow Wilson, who was a famed female aviator named Francis Wilson, Grayson, whose name we don't know anymore because of the story I'm about to tell you, was determined to be the first woman to cross the Atlantic in an airplane. But again, like, she wasn't going to be flying the plane. She was just part of this crew. And the plane disappeared on the way for it.

So Limburg, you know, took off from, I think it was Newfoundland, like the easternmost tip of North America. This plane disappeared on the way from Maine to Newfoundland. so like Woodrow Wilson's niece who was like the most famous woman aviator at the time didn't even make it to the like takeoff point like that's that's the thing

that you also come up against is just like you know we live in a world where like flying is taken for granted and like you know that Malaysian air flight that like disappeared like the pilot had to like turn off the tracker on it to even disappear like but like this is a time where

there's no transponders right yeah this is a flight from Maine to Canada and it disappears like without a trait like nobody and it has like the president's niece on it and everyone's like yeah we it's gone what is crazy and she wasn't actually flying it she was not solo no this is this is at the time when people are just like do we think a woman's body would women explode yeah yeah yeah we've put a parrot on a flight yes yeah we've put my dog yeah so the friendship she she gets put as a part of of this crew. It makes it across. And like, just to give you a sense of like how amazed people are

by the fact that a woman can physically be in a plane that goes across the Atlantic, I've just put in the chat, the New York Times the day after. It is massive font. Amelia Earhart flies Atlantic. First woman to do it tells her own story of perilous 21-hour trip to Wales. Radio quit and they flew blind over invisible ocean. Wow. Yeah. They're just like, she immediately becomes hugely famous for just being in a plane that goes over the Atlantic because people are so fucking sexist.

They're like, she didn't die. The fact that she didn't die. They're sexist, but also it wasn't happening a lot. Like the transatlantic flight wasn't happening. Yeah, yeah. No, for sure. It was Lindberg and that's it. And so it's like to have one of the first people be, who was the pilot?

This guy who's like one of the jackass crew, this guy Bird, who's like famous, who's famous for like, he like belly flopped a plane and like into the ocean when trying to get across the Atlantic one time before. He's like famous for claiming to have like been the first person to fly over the North Pole. And now like historians are like, yeah, he didn't do that shit. Well, that's why I feel like there's a tinge of like it's sexism. but it's also like, well, now a woman was there to bear witness, so it must have happened. Like, you know, we believe it now because there's a sensible human being in the air who can testify.

It's the first step across, like, she builds on this. Like, it's not like she takes it and is like, well, and I'm happy to have done that. She's like, well, I'm planning to do that alone very soon. You know what I mean? 21 hours. 21 hours across. Yeah, because, again, it's going so slow.

So slow. They're being propelled by fucking propellers. Just, you know, a fan that's moving the thing forward. And again, engines at the time are the equivalent of like a modern sedan. Right. Also, okay, what's the encapsulation situation? Like, is it just, are we just? They're inside now.

Okay. Yeah, they have like full-blown. Yeah, they're not just full-blown. Yeah, they're not. A bunch of scarfs. Boris and Natashaing it. Yeah. Yeah.

A leather skull cap. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you get a scarf. Yeah. No. It's minus 40 up here. My scarf really blew off. Yeah, yeah.

So this is when she becomes an associate editor at Cosmo and uses that position to just like write about flying and like women being able to fly. And also she's like a big proponent of commercial air travel, which is like a crazy idea at the time. She is offered lucrative commercial endorsements including ads for Lucky Strike, the cigarette brand that bragged that it's toasted. And she endorsed Kodak film, Beech Nut Gum, Horlick's malted milk cubes, offers that she turned down included a rabbit meat, a rabbit meat company was like, hey, could you be the face of a rabbit meat for my podcast? I just like There's not even a company.

It's like, hey, we're with rabbit meat. We love to sponsor. Rabbit meat. There's no brand. Just, you know, you rabbit meat? You know how you like. That's us. Yeah.

When you catch a rabbit, you shoot a rabbit. You want people to eat it. No, thanks. I also like this line from the thing. And she also turned down the truly random rabbit meat and the potentially exploitative children's hats. I'm like, what the fuck was going on with these children's hats? Was this, wait, how?

Do we know? It's hats out of children, obviously. Hats made out of children. Hats made of children. I mean, it's like, well, where are they made? It's like the triangle shirt waist factory. I mean, but obviously that might be like, it's way cleared up now.

That was the fucking, what, 1911 is way long ago. But kids don't work there anymore. Okay. It's just. Yeah. Just wear it. it would mean a lot to surviving kids, you know? Can we put on our weird alarmist 1920s hats,

no pun intended, to understand how a child's hat is exploitative? Maybe, so I know that hat factories used a lot of mercury, which caused Mad Hatter syndrome, you know, people to go to lose their mind. And maybe they were like, they were like the only way to size these things is to put them on actual children's hats while they're still well they're still wet with mercury.

It was just child labor, I think. Well, yeah, but child labor was no problem back then. Oh, they were fine with child labor, I think. Oh, okay, right. I don't know. Yeah. What's crazy, though, is like, she's like, I'm so excited for commercial airlines and then, you know, the rollout of commercial airlines

and the role of women was just to serve drinks and look attractive. That skirt could be tighter. Be on their period, you know? Right. Well, yeah. They measured them. You think early flight attendants actually had to go.

Like, maybe there was some, like, are you on your period stipulation? I'm sure. They're definitely. Men don't understand shit about women's periods. No. Yeah. Because if you did, you know, we should not be flying within months for three weeks. She was crazy.

We should have our own fucking class. Just free bleed. Anyway. She also, like, created. her own brand. You could like wear the Amelia Earhart, like, the same way you could like buy Jordans. She had like her outfits that she sold at

Oh, she's hustling. That made sense. That made sense for what she had been writing about. Yeah. She's Cosmo. She also like looked good. I think her outfit, like, she wore a Lindberg jacket that

she like kind of bought off the rack and what like bought right before her trip. It was like a leather jacket and like she recognized that it looked like she hadn't been wearing it a lot so she like slept in it for three days before the big flight. Hell yeah. I love it. And then she wore like riding pants.

So she like put together a sick outfit. She's like also like a slender white woman with, you know, with the cute haircut. Like she's she kind of like, she leaned into the iconography of it all. Yeah, yeah. For sure. She also designed the first line of her lightweight canvas covered plywood, plywood, plywood luggage, which seems like a product specifically designed for someone who is going to

disappear at sea. It's like, did they know? Like a light luggage material. Like get your bags that float. And then, yeah, she's just generally credited as not just a, you know, groundbreaker in flight, but also like the creation of the first celebrity fashion line, the first celebrity. She's like kind of the first

modern celebrity. That's crazy. She's like, she's kind of the reason we have Walburgers now. Thank you, Amelia. And she knew that about her. Like, I think that's kind of like,

again, this, her level of her like, ingenuity is pretty strong to like. Yeah. Because you had to make money too. She'd probably be hustling on that shit. It's like she has a cocaine. She also, like, she never drank or

smoked. But like, she, you can tell, like, got high from flying and from, like, these sorts of things, like, you know, taking risks and, like, doing crazy shit. And, like, she didn't have the option of doing the things that other people, like, you read about, you read about that guy, Mans's career. And he's like, yeah, so then I, like, went into the military and got to, like, learn how to, like, fly planes and, like, do all the shit. She has to stage, like, bigger, uh, feats to, like, be able to keep flying. There's an entire and interesting, like, you know, many smarter people have created the, you know, the studies of this, but like the way that women had to excel in column B when all they wanted to do was column A. So, like, you know, I remember I'm a huge Nina Simone fan and finding out that she just wanted to play the piano and wanted to be a classical pianist.

Like, that was her goal. Right. She did not want to, I mean, she sang, but like that wasn't her goal. and she sang blues and, you know, jazz, but like she wanted to be a classical concert pianist. Right, right, right, yeah. You could not do that as a woman. You had to sing, especially as a woman of color.

Like, no, you got to sing, girl. And so kind of similarly to Amelia Earhart's. Like, I just want to fly, but I have to do all of these other things. All this other shit. That's how I feel. I just want to talk about politics, but people are like, oh, my God. My God, you're so beautiful. What's your makeup routine, you know?

And I was like, that's so. annoying. So grand is that jacket. Yeah. Anyways, so this is, everything we've talked about so far is from being in a plane that went across the Atlantic. And now a lot of other people with more flying experience than her are like, become the focus. And they're like, okay, now can a woman actually like fly across the Atlantic?

And everybody's like planning their expedition. And she starts planning in secret to like do her own expedition, uh, her own expedition. And actually, yeah, let's take one more break and we'll come back. We'll talk about that expedition that succeeds in the one that didn't succeed. We'll be right back. Experience. You and a pal in Montreal and Oceaga with four nights at residents in downtown Montreal. Flights from Porter Airlines, two weekend gold tickets, and $1,000 of cash.

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We're back. And yeah, so she's preparing to fly across the Atlantic solo in essentially a, you know, Dodge Charger with wings. pretty good. That's a, maybe what do we think? A Honda Civic? Dodge Charger. I checked the horsepower. Oh, you did?

Okay. Yeah, it's a Dodge Charger. Which is, it's a Dodge Charger, okay. It's a damn Dodge Charger. Back off. Which, uh, let me see. It's, oh, that's, that's powerful. Yeah, yeah.

What, it's also a thing. It's loud. Sorry, Ford Mustang. It's a Ford Mustang. No. Whatever. The Ford Mustang seems loud because they use recorded room.

sounds to make the drivers feel like they've actually they've changed that now yeah they've added room sounds to the engine because they don't need it anymore like the engine is efficient enough so I want to that makes me want to

kill somebody like truly it's the same thing about like having a you know spoilers or whatever taking off your mufflers yeah yeah yeah just like I live next to a very loud street and it it is I was talking about how every day a study

that found, they did personality profiles of the people who have loud cars. To be like, are they narcissists? Is this a big, look at me, look at me? And they found that the only thing that was consistently true of them is that they are sadists.

They know what they're doing. They know. Like they might hurt small animals and children, right? Hell yeah. Yeah. Like this is, they know that what they're doing is causing pain and that's why they're doing it.

So the thing that they're having to balance, right, is get enough power, have enough fuel, but you have to stay light enough to, like, be propelled by a glorified ceiling fan across the Atlantic Ocean. Right. Because, you know, and fuel is fucking heavy at this time. To give you a sense of, like, how razor thin the margins were, Lindbergh flew across sitting in a retan chair because he didn't want to waste an ounce of weight. So it was like...

21 hours in a retan chair. Like the one Huey Newton is in in that photo? The famous one we got the... I think you're probably much smaller. Nah, that's got a lot of weight in that. I got to Google that image now, damn it. But so she's having to do this all secretly. You said that you to talk about the Huey Newton chair.

This Huey Newton chair you can buy right now, like in Palm Springs. And also like every... like every black relative I had at the time had my grandparents had had that. Oh yeah. You know, I gotta be lightweight.

Let's get the, the human retan chair. Okay. So she's not flying in a retan chair. They've figured out a way to make it lightweight and strong by the time she's going. She is flying with her engine on fire

for most of the flight. One of the engines is on fire the whole time. She's just like, again, again, like, Just looking out, being like, all right, well, fuck, that sucks. It starts raining as she's going across, so she tries to get above the rain, but goes so high above the rain that it becomes freezing, and the plane becomes encased in ice, and everything freezes up.

So she starts spinning out. As she gets close down to the water, where she's about to die, it gets warm enough that the plane melts. She gets control back and has to go up higher to avoid. the weather, at which point it freezes again, and it's just like back and forth between those two factors that are trying to the whole way across. We've seen the happy medium. You've got to be right above the clouds. Yeah.

They're kind of engages. She's like, I don't know. I just have to vibe check the engine. No, truly the altometer, the instrument that says how high you are is broken the whole time. Oh, sure. So she has to eyeball it. Wow.

With the engine off, did the fire go out and imagine at the freezing temperatures at least? like she got a little bit of respite there. She's like, oh, well, that is the fire one of. Crazy. But like, this is where I'm like, if you're experiencing fear normally, like, how the fuck you, like, just being like, up. You got it. Yeah, you'd be like, I'm done.

It's probably, I don't have control over it. Yeah. She can't drink liquid because the relief tubes, the tubes you pee into are only designed for men. She drinks tomato juice a little bit, which is, like, tomato juice on planes goes all. the way back for some reason. Thank God because sometimes, you know, a little, a little shitty, you know. Mr. T's or Mr. and Mrs. T's Bloody Mary mix.

A Bloody Mary, like a little shitty Bloody Mary with V8 kind of hits. Yeah. Is it because of the salt? Are people that say like we like it because of the salt or something? What do you mean? Like the way, like the reason why people crave it sometimes is that like we inherently just want something a little bit salty to drink. Or just the mix.

Like I'll drink. the mix sometimes. Sometimes I'll just order Bloody Mary mix. Yeah, Clamato. I've never had just like, Clamato goes in Micheladas though, right? Yeah, but you can make it anything.

You can make that clam juice, you know? We love it. We love it, folks, don't we? She's not having Bloody Mary. She is just trying to survive. She's got to do that. She lands in a field in Ireland. She's aiming for Paris.

She lands in a field in Ireland. So fucking cool. Oh my God. Almost hits a couple cows, but like makes it out, just like goes to the farmhouse and is like, hey, could I use your phone? Like, yeah, calls. He's like, hey, I landed.

This is where I am. And goes to sleep in the farmhouse, wakes up. And she's like the most famous person in the world. Oh my God. She's got like meetings with royal family and which was a big deal at the time. Just like organically off the back of that, they're like. like, hey, man, they're like, I know you're in this farmhouse. You got to meet the queen right now. Oh, well, her husband is back on the East Coast, like working the phones. But like everybody, I mean,

you saw, like, you see the New York Times cover when she was just in a plane that went across the Atlantic. And now she's like gone solo across the Atlantic. So she just becomes fucking massive. And this is when she's invited to be faculty at Purdue University, where she's like really, really starts to work on the period myth. I just want to read some of the things about the minute. She was like, it was the blood that propelled me. I was drinking V8 and menstruating right into the fuel tank. In 1942, the civilian aeronautics administration put out a handbook for medical examiners

in which it stated, all women should be cautioned that it is dangerous for them to fly within a period of three days prior to and three days after the menstrual period. In 1943, the Air Transport Command ordered its women pilots grounded for the week they menstruated. That's like years after. That is the most sexist as shit. Because you know it's not like physical.

It's like, well, it is, or it's like, these bitches be crazy. Like, they can't make good decisions when you're bleeding. It's just they're freaked out. The men are freaked out. When you're, when you're menstruating, you have actually a lot of clarity. There's like the most clarity before you are bleeding. I don't know.

It's very, it's like a, it's a, it's a lucid-ass moment. And that makes us uncomfortable. Yeah, exactly. Like, we don't like that. We don't like to know about your superpowers. I will say there was a baby that was recently born on a flight and you're not supposed to fly when you're like about eight or eight plus months pregnant. you cannot fly.

And this baby was born on like, it's like, that's so gross. I'm sorry. I mean, yay. On the spirit airlines flight, yeah. The last spirit airlines. Yeah. I'm just like, what the fuck you doing, girl?

It definitely wasn't her first. She probably is like other kids, for sure. When they, when they sort of rolled out that regulation, did they even have any like pseudoscience to back it up? Aside from like, we all, we all agree. This is fucking crazy. right for some lady to be on an airplane.

Well, yeah, there were like, there was some doctor who's like, well, she, the blood goes in shadow. The medical establishment is really happy to just be like, I don't know, I always talk about this anecdote. But there's one time my wife and I went to see a doctor about a pain she was experiencing. And the doctor spoke directly to me about her, like she wasn't in the room. Like it was like a vet visit. Like you brought cattle in. Yeah, right, right, yeah, yeah. My wife is a physician.

I compare historical figures to the people on jackass for a living. Why did you go with her? Why didn't she just wait? Yeah. So I feel like you kind of already had a paternalistic situation. I was holding her by the arm. Yeah. As we went in.

And then the doctor came and she's like, doctor. And you covered her milk. So doctor, what are we looking at here? What are we dealing with here? What are we dealing with here, Doc? Yeah, some of the evidence that she collected was crazy. She had the statement of a wardrobe mistress of a circus who in her youth had been a trapeze artist,

whose daughter was a trapeze artist then working on the circus, that trapeze and high wire women worked without regard for their periods. Good gracious, if my life depended on it, I couldn't remember when any of my girls had to take any time off for that. She had the statement of Florence Rogue ballet mistress at Radio City Music Hall. So she just was like going around to people, who were professional women being like, and you can work while you're having.

Yeah, physically exerting. Exerting in the air. Even more, far more so than being a pilot. Yeah. So anyways, that's what she was like working on. She was like,

that's the level of discourse that society was giving her as she's like doing these incredible feats. We're never going to have a female president in my lifetime. And that's okay. I'm willing to die. As long as it isn't, you know. I'm willing to die.

I'm willing to die before it happens. Obviously, there'll be a revolution in our first, you know, I will be America's first female dictator. I'm very excited about that. But I'm like, you know, you realize like this is like the 30s and you're like, yeah. We're not ready. We're still at the, we don't know shit about science and we're using that to discredit people phase.

Yeah. And media. So she has to keep coming up with journeys that are going to get a lot of attention, get her money because she has to keep funding flying basically. It's like, it is like kind of like a cocaine habit where it's like I got to fly more so I could make more money so I could make, you know, find more.

If it's going to be big time, which is impossible to think about if it were happening now because it happened then for a reason with certain, you know, parameters of patriarchy and whatnot. But like, you would totally use that opportunity to get Tampax to sponsor your next flight while you were menstruating.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Everybody wins. Everybody wins. It would be too much for men. They would be too nervous. She's going to die. The very at least, like, brand the plane that you're in. You're like, you know, on the wings, you have all the logos on there, yeah.

So the big thing her and her husband come up with for like the next big stunt is for her to go around the globe at the equator. And they invest their entire life savings in this trip because it's like, you know, you need a whole crew. and they crash the plane in Hawaii as they're trying to take off the first time. And so then they have to like really cut down on the crew until it's just one person. And this is the flight that she never comes back from. She's trying to go around the world at the equator going east. And she makes it all the way to the Pacific Ocean. And then that is the big...

From where? From Florida. See, that just seems insane to me to be like transatlantic and then around the equator. Yeah. It's a big jump. That's a huge jump. Yeah. Yeah, it is.

But that's like they're dealing with. So people are now like experiencing commercial air travel and, you know, people are like less impressed, less and less impressed. Like the drop off from how amazed people were. by flight to, like, kind of not giving a fuck pretty soon after is pretty precipitous. And so they're having to try and, like, keep up with that. Her husband is a bit of an asshole about it. In the lead up to the flight that killed her, he's just applying the gas as much as, like, it's like the same way that, like, a really nice celebrity needs a manager who is an actual

psychopathic murderer. like she probably needed somebody who was the brakes, you know, who was like, we're gonna, like, think about this and like make sure. Or loved her for her eccentricities.

Yeah, yeah. Feels like Sean Penn where he's like, I'm gonna go fucking talk to El Chapo. They're like, dude, what the fuck are you doing?

No. No. Yeah, does he even have like a manager PS person? I don't think so. Certainly not. He's just going by the gut.

Yeah, man. They show their plan to go around the globe at the equator to other pilots. There's this guy who is a really experienced pilot. The sort of people who had helped them plan the trip across the Atlantic. And they're like, no, you can't. No, the part across the Pacific, you're going to get fucked up. Like, you can't do that part. Yeah.

And they're like, all right, so you're going to need to, if you plan on doing that, you're going to need to do like these three things. And they do none of those things. Her husband at this point says, if you go to all that trouble, the book will not be out for Christmas sales. Oh, God. So, like, that's kind of the unforgivable thing.

And also, this is solo? This is no, with a navigator, but she's flying the whole way. So, yeah, he is, like, pushing it to try and, like, meet some, like, publication deadline. Which is clear he has like no idea how to fly or like what goes into it, how dangerous it is, or even what she went through in her first flight. Right. There's also an anecdote from like right before they take off where Earhart mentioned something about the plane's radio and Putnam snapped.

You had a chance to change. It's too late now. Wow. That sounds like Matt. Every time we're like sniveling. This is like Matt. That sounds so much like you and Matt. Oh my God.

I know. A couple goals. No, but I just feel like the line like we're already doing blank never holds for me. Like I'm someone who's like if there's a better plan, we can just do the better plan. I don't mean like, you know. You can't change your mind now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The sub costs.

Matt's always like we're already going to the playground. We're already going here. You know, it's like we're already gone to this thing. And it's like, okay, but new shit has come to life. and we could just switch plans. The car's already on fire. We're just going to keep going. It'll go.

It'll go out on its own. I'm like, sweetie, it's okay. If we switch it up. Anyway, he would have definitely put me in that plane. Wow. Just putting your little helmet on. There you go. But only because we were already scheduled to do it.

And we already have Christmas pre-orders. But we already said. Right. It is fine. The little hat looks like high school wrestling headgear. It's like such a funny. little hat. But, like, also, people just, like, kept telling her she shouldn't do it for, like, you just can't get across the Pacific the way they were trying to do it at the equator because

there's only this one tiny island that you're going to have to hit. And, like, you have to be, like, super experienced. And I think there's another force at work here in addition to, like, her husband just being a fucking idiot who just wants to, like, hit this publishing deadline because he comes from the publishing industry, and that's, like, the most important thing to him, is that she is a celebrity now, and she's also a celebrity who, like, got very famous by doing something that people told her she couldn't do. Right. And so, like, gradually, no one can tell her shit, you know?

Right. And so she, like, just keeps, like, blowing off, like, people who, like, the guy who designed the planes communication system is, like, so we're going to have to work together for weeks, in the lead up to this, obviously. And she keeps just, like, blowing him off and blowing him off. And, like, she finally shows up for one of the trainings. And he's like, okay, thank God. All right.

So do I have you for, like, the whole day? She's like, I've got 15 minutes. Jesus Christ. She, like, never learns how to use the radio. And that is one of the things that kills her. Wow. Like, on the entire last flight, it's kind of haunting because she's, like, radioing. So they can, the people at the ship that are,

next to the island, uh, that are like there to like kind of bring her in are hearing her radio them and then they're radioing back and she can't hear them. She can't hear them. Yeah. She can't hear them at all. So it's like this one way conversation of her like getting her and her navigator getting lost. They're like trying to dead reckon through it, which is like when you're using just like what

you can see out the fucking window. Wow. Essentially. And they run into like the problem that every, Everyone's like, well, if it's cloudy, you can't see the stars. Like, you're fucked. Like, what are you going to do? Yeah.

And, like, one of her messages on, like, early on is, like, it's cloudy. So they're in a cloud patch. They don't really have a sense of where they are. There's more wind that they're flying into than they realize. And so they get out of the cloud patch and they think they're further along than they are. And so she's like, I should see you. Why can't I see you? And then, you know, it cuts off.

Dead reckon. Yeah, dead reckoning. We're dead. We're dead. We're dead, I reckon. Yeah. After that. Exactly.

I just meant like the show lost. I just see like the text going. So that is what everybody wants to have happened. That she found the island. The theories are. You know what I'm saying? I would have just kept on flying. And then you just wait until like there's like light and you can see and it's like good

weather. Duh. You just land somewhere else and I definitely would have figured this out. Like me personally, this would have been actually very easy for me. But she's a fool. I think the navigator fucked her up. I think if she was solely alone, she would have done this. The navigator was an alcoholic who had gotten drunk the night before.

Oh my God. Or in one of the nights before. You're like, buddy, it's not the sea. Okay. Yeah. You can't just be drunk for all the whole time. We can just be drunk driving across the Pacific. No, for sure.

you can, I mean, speaking of like, sea versus air, a lot easier to kind of fudge it at the sea, you know? Yeah, yeah. A lot of, yeah, a lot of leeway for mistakes. Yeah. Still not easy, still dangerous, but less, more forgiving. People could, like, she probably could have landed the plane on the Pacific and then, like, been available to be picked up. That is, like, one of the theories. Like, they probably had some time.

Oh, she could have landed it on water or enough that. land it and it would like float for like nine days. But isn't that sort of what she probably tried to do? Chances are she probably did. Unless something went like more catastrophically wrong than people realized. But like that's that's the only mystery is like did she land it, float, you know, there was a boat. So maybe they got into a boat.

Maybe they did make like there, there are tiny islands around there. She just didn't know how to use the fucking radio. So like she wasn't able to. really. She's alive. Dude, she's alive. I mean, not now, but like, she survived. She was like, fuck my husband. Fuck.

I can't. The, the, this Christmas sales are ruined. So I'm just going to live here on this little island. I'm going to get out of here. I'm going to get out of that, that nice cage, that nicely appointed cage that he was putting me in. So some of the theories as to what happened, which doesn't seem like it should be that hard.

Like, it was, you know, she, she was on a. risky flight, delayed by a crash, couldn't hang on to any crew members other than an alleged alcoholic navigator, relying on a plane that contained subpar communication gear and a plan that required pinpointing a minuscule, uninhabited island in the middle of the Pacific.

But people are like, so what happened? And some of the theories have been that she made it to a deserted island. And there are some claims that a skeleton that was found on one of the islands around there was hers, but then people keep losing the bones.

That just sounds like you're lying so bad. Dude, it's Amelia. Where are they? Oh, shit. Fucking lost the bones. Anyway, come to the island because we've got good food and other things and sea shells.

Please come to the Amelia Earhart Island. Yeah. Yeah. The big conspiracy theory that I hadn't heard, but one of my friends had heard this one was that they were actually actually the whole circumnavigating the globe thing was actually a ruse. They were doing spying for Roosevelt on the Japanese.

And the Japanese captured them, arrested them, and executed them. They were tortured and executed. And the reason that is a theory that has, like, still hung around is because her husband, like, a year or so after she, disappeared. He was like hard up for money and approved a movie that had that plot, essentially. Wow. Yeah. And that's amazing. It's like Bill Clinton making a Hillary biopic about how Pizza Gate was real. For me, it's like he wins no matter what. Like you have to at some point think, okay, who inherits my estate? Who gets my name? Who gets my story? It's going to be this fool. He's not risking his life at all. Yeah, maybe I had a fling with a bartender or whatever and he didn't

get mad, but like, he sent me into, you know, this, and it seems like it was mutual. She clearly wasn't focused on the flight, which could have been doomed anyway, but like, I don't know. It seems like she needed like a pre-nup, pre-nump, like a actual, like, if something happens to me, but maybe, I don't know, you know. Yeah. I'm still also the thing is like, what exactly was the U.S. spying on Japan for in 1929? I was just saying generally, or third, right?

When did her plane go down? 30. Oh, okay. 37, actually. 37. Okay, okay, okay. Okay. That tracks.

And there's like all, there's like photographs that they were like, see, this is them in front of a Japanese aircraft. And after they disappeared and people have, like, a lot like Japanese journalists have had to like spend a lot of time, like debunking this one. Right. No, man.

Like that photos from 1935. Like this is. bullshit. They went to an island where the capture was supposed to take place and, like, talked to locals who were like, yeah, I don't know. Some white guy came around being like, did you mean? Oh, they're all like, what? Insisting. I don't know.

He seemed to really want us to know. Yeah. Want us to say yes. That's the thing about like these things. It's like the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Yeah. But she was captured by the Japanese, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Occam's Razor. Yeah. Made queen of a small, small island in the Pacific. Who famously wouldn't have documented

the execution of a American spy or something like that. I'm like, yeah, by the way, the script for that movie, that had been written in 1939 about like the Japanese capturing her was shelved

due to its overtly anti-Japanese sentiments. How racist does the script have to be to be too racist for 1939. 39, right. Oh, boy. They're definitely Looney Tunes cartoons that did not pass that smell test.

Oh, no, no, no. You've seen some of those are wild. Yeah, I learned so much about my own culture through them. Wow. It is, you know, it reminds me of a little bit of, like,

I watched the Jeff Buckley documentary about the singer Jeff Buckley and how he died, and he basically, like, Matt and I were like, he died of whimsy. Like, he literally went swimming in a river or a body of water, wasn't a river that, like, was very dangerous that he shouldn't have gone swimming in. Well, drunk, right?

Like, you know, I don't. I think he was like, wait. The thing is, he was like, his friends were, like, coming into town. He was, like, going to start on a new album. He was kind of, like, getting shit together. And I was just like, you know what? I'm going to go on a swim, you know, and be like, just, you know, float and vibe in this, like, crazy. triptide, fucking whatever,

Bermuda triangle of a body of water. It was like one of those cursed body of waters that's like by an airport, you know what I mean? You know vibe in the water off of dead man's bluff. Totally, totally. And it's like, I don't know,

there's a, there's also a lot of hubris in how she met. But good for her, because that in and of itself is groundbreaking and glass ceiling breaking. Because like, yes, women can make stupid rash decisions

and be overzealous and hubristic and good for her. Yeah. You know? She made it look good. And she gave us a fucking icon. Yeah, women can generally have like no sense of like their own, you know, danger around them. Usually not. Yeah.

99.9% no. Sensible, grounded, smart, bearings about us. But the 0.1%, you know, that's how, that's how history gets made. Yeah. Right. That's usually during the Menzies. So 1.1% When the men Cesar

When the Mentee's in, you know what I mean? I don't even know where I am. Someone has to have, like, if she had died now, again, back to now, like the whole Manosphere, fucking Rogan sphere would be like, well, it turns out she was actually

on her period on this flight. I mean, there's even shit in, so like the most famous depiction, I think. Like, there's been a lot of movies about her, but the only one that really like exists as far as I can tell like in kind of the popular consciousness is night at the museum too. Um, when she's played by Amy Adams and like makes out with Ben Stiller. She's like the love interest. That's amazing. And she's like, she like can't read a map. Like that's a, that's a joke

that they keep coming back to. Oh no. She like keeps getting directions wrong. Yeah. Um, yeah. So I, yeah, I do think that there is still like, an. underlying sexism, probably when it comes to her and just being like, well, you know, can't follow directions. The guy she was with, by the way. It is funny.

Yeah. But I'm also like, again, let a bitch be kind of crazy, you know, be kind of like, you know. Oh, yeah. She was a blast. Like, what a good hang. What a hang.

I think that like the thing that, the reason that we have so many theories about her is just like she got cast in, like, there's a theory of, like, iconography where, like, certain people just, like, can, like, there's, like, one spot and, like, one person can take it. Like, Bert Reynolds goes away because Harrison Ford takes that, like, every man role, you know, from him. And, like, Josh Gad is trying to take Jack Black's role, but, like, never will, you know, there's only Jack Black. I'm like, knock it off, Josh. With flying, I think there was Lindberg and,

then she came along and, you know, there was just, we stopped giving a shit enough about piles and so there was only room for one and he did the worst thing you could do for your legacy and became a Nazi and she did the best thing you can do for yours and disappear. Die doing the thing. Yeah. Well, you know, she avoided a fate of like having, you know, a flying residency at Vegas and, you know, just sort of going through all the hits and in making a mockery of herself. Right.

Right. Yeah, yeah. I feel like that didn't land like I wanted it to, metaphorically and speaking about the planes. No, but I'm like, what, you know, is there a Harlem Globetrotters for, I mean, she could have been part of some sort of early, you know, blue angels. But again, it's like, you know. I think she probably would have, like, moved off of, like, planes into, like, other stuff or, like, been a reader, you know, like, I mean, the thing. She would have been in the submersible. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Like, everybody was like, Lindbergh's going to be. the next president until he was like, what about Hitler? That guy that's cool idea. Oh, shut the fuck up, man. But like she might have become like a leader. Like, you know. Well, she wasn't, she was like a, she was a group,

like she was the president of like one of those organizations, right? That was the 99. Yeah, she's the head of like a women's flying organization. Yeah. So it feels like someone like that who understands what it takes to get to that level probably was invested on some level to like expand the field and make it easier for other people. So who knows? I mean, she could have, she might have had a fucking cult.

When was the rule changed? When was the flying? It is still in effect. We just don't respect it. I mean, Stephen Miller is unearthing it right now and he's re-implementing it. Because I think, you know, that's her lasting legacy is changing whether women can fly and also fly on their periods. That's right. Mm-hmm. Francesca, such a pleasure. having you on this Amelia Earhart episode. Where can people find you, follow you, see you all that good stuff? Yeah, at Franny Fio, F-O-F-R-A-N-I-F-O on most things, including and especially YouTube,

where I have my podcast, The Bituation Room, which you can also just listen to as a podcast. I've got a month of free Patreon access to my new exclusive internet interview series that happens on the internet, but also in a studio. It's called Hot Button. And you guys both have to be back on the show. What the fuck? What are we doing here? You're telling me, you act like I'm supposed to ask you to be on the show.

You're like traveling the world. You're like Amelia Earhart out here, just getting lost in the... Yeah, going to execute, but getting executed by the Japanese, doing it all, man. You know what I mean? Secretly spying on the Japanese while I'm there. On behalf of President Trump. Miles, where can people find you? Just spying on, you know, various sovereign nations around the world under the guys.

eyes of tourism. And, you know, find me on this show and ain't it footy. Yeah. And four 20-day fiance. And have we figured out, is it footy yet? It is. It is. It is funny.

It's so footy. It's so footy. I want to be on that show. Okay. Okay, bye. We're going to be right back with the notebook dump. Nopeok you in a second. All right.

That was our conversation. Thank you to Francesca Furentini. Thank you to Miles Gray. what a duo. And to Jam McNabb, who did the research on this one, this is the No, No, No, No, No, Book, where I tell you the interesting stuff I didn't have time to get to in the moment of the conversation. If any, there is some today. So first off, just a bit on the conspiracy theories around her death, obviously.

You won't be shocked to learn there's a lot of UFO shit out there. This was a time period where UFOs started to bubble up, you know. 40s, 50s. But there was a point last year when everyone was asking about a very different conspiracy theory about the Epstein files. And Trump released the Earhart files right next to it alphabetically, almost like he was pretending he misheard us. Oh yeah, yeah, I'll get you the files. Anyways, staying true to his brand, those files included a 1960 article in which a former army sergeant said he was shown the unmarked graves on Saipan in 1944 and believed they were Earhart and Noonan. The consistency of his racism is pretty impressive. That is, of course, the

conspiracy theory where, like, they were actually captured and murdered by the Japanese. A little more on the fear thing. On the one hand, You know, this, the narrative arc of her life could just be read as yet another icon episode where our icons, intelligence is in a race with their celebrity to, you know, the celebrity is trying to kill them. You know, Tupac, Elvis, like incredibly intelligent, charismatic people whose intelligence makes them famous. and then the fame kind of knits a hermetically sealed false Truman show reality around them that they will then do anything to preserve and that is usually trying to kill them in some way or another. But I do also want to talk about in the case of Amelia Earhart, the fear thing, something

that I think was true of her from the start, the idea that she might not have experienced fear in the same way as the rest of us. I'm just kind of obsessed with this idea. I end up talking a lot on the show about the fact that we are more different from each other in our brains than we assume. You know, we're more similar to each other than we like to think in some ways. But in terms of like how our brains work, there's this New Yorker article I keep talking about about people who literally can't picture images in their mind. They just don't have that ability. You say, close your eyes, picture a bee, pollinating a flower. They don't know what you're talking about, which I had heard before I read this New York article earlier this year. But the detail from this

article that blew my mind is that they go through their whole lives, a lot of these people, not realizing they're different. They hear us talk about picturing something, and they think we're speaking metaphorically. And they often go their whole lives, not realizing they're different. It's like becoming less and less. So as this is becoming more publicized, people are like, oh, yeah, I guess this is a way that people can go through life. Maybe I have that. But I just, I think that's probably true of a lot of different things. And I think that's probably true of energy levels.

That's something that I've come up against a lot in these icon episodes that there are a lot of icons we've covered who like just seem to need less sleep and like wake up and are just like have a motor on them. You know, they're just go, go, go all day. And are just like, why are all these other people not constantly working around the clock and, like, have just like endless energy? It must be that they are worse than me and that I deserve great things. And it's like, no, I think you might just be built a little different. Anyways, the research of this episode made me think for the first time that this might be true of fear, that we're all probably on some spectrum of how strongly we experience fear and will we one day,

I don't know, be able to genetically test for this the way that they can tell how likely you are to like smoke or get bitten up by mosquitoes. They'll just be like, according to your genome, you're most likely to be a test pilot who smokes and thinks cilantro tastes like soap. but you do not experience fear like the rest of us. Anyways, that's just a thought that was going through my mind the whole time we were researching this episode. And, you know, I don't mean that to take anything away from her

that she didn't experience fear as much. I think it's, she's just fascinating. You know, I think that's fascinating. I think, you know, heading into these icon episodes, in the back of my mind, I'm always a little worried that the icon is not going to be as interesting. as their image, you know, that they're just going to be a person who kind of came along at the right time to give history sort of a wall that we could project a bad bitch onto. And I don't

think we've hit that wall yet. And Amelia Earhart, certainly incredible, certainly earned her reputation. She definitely walk it like she talk it. On her endorsements, one cheap trick that I appreciated is she'd carry letters with her in the plane and then sell those letters later, kind of like the early flight equivalent of moon rocks. Also, I had the question, by endorsing commercial flight early, uh, I think, you know, she took a lot of shit for endorsing smoking, uh, not because of the health risks, just because it was unlady. Like, but, you know, first of all, by endorsing commercial flight, I think she probably brought about the demise of her own career because suddenly everyone was like, well, I've flown.

before. This is, this ain't shit. But also, I'm just curious, like, how dangerous was early commercial flight, you know? You look at the page for early commercial air disasters, and it's pretty great. Like, there's a lot of examples per year in the early days of flight. Um, you know, probably not quite as deadly as endorsing lucky strikes, uh, toasted. But, uh, that industry commercial flight probably got some people killed by telling them commercial flight was ready to go before it was fully baked. The Hindenberg, by the way, happened the same year that she disappeared. But I do think, speaking of people experiencing commercial flight and then being like not as impressed or interested in her feats of daring due, I do really think that transition from awe

in the face of human flight in the early 20th century. and then to our modern condition of flight being a thing that we all metabolized and, like, have largely partaken in, many of us have partaken in and kind of like have to pretend it's not a big deal in order to partake in it. So like we don't all have nervous breakdowns about being in a metal tube, thousands of feet in the air. I just think that's an underrated shift in our perception and in the zeitgeist. I think, like, there's jokes about it.

and like dumb and dumber where they're like, oh my God, we landed on the moon. But like, it is always the thing you tell a time traveler and they're most impressed by and a lot of time travel shit is just like, yeah, we're going to land on the moon. And it kind of already starts happening in her lifetime, like I said. But when I was at Cracked, we had this genre of story that was always pretty popular where we would tell stories of people doing heroic things and like lean into the badassery of what they were doing. You know, we had, examples from like World War II soldiers who did like incredibly badass thing. And one of the best versions of that article that I think we ever published was by a guy named Johnny Lepper. I went back and

looked at it. And it was about World War I fighter pilots when the planes don't have tops. Like they're not made of metal. It's like canvas and wood and machine guns is essentially what you're working with. Like one of the stories has a guy falling out of his plane and landing on his plane that's in a tailspin and like getting it under control somehow. And this is at a point where, so we're publishing this article at a point where I had a pretty good idea of what people were going to enjoy, like what was going to do well with aircracked readership. And I'd, you know, been doing it for about five years, living, living and dying with each article and was very certain that this one was going to hit. And it completely tanked. And I was like, what did I mean?

miss here. These are like some of the crazier true stories that we've pulled in this type of article that seems to be driven by the craziness of the true stories. And then around that time, I was reading William Goldman's memoir. I think it was which lie did I tell. He's the guy who wrote like the Princess Bride and Butch Cassidy and has written some really good books. He's the guy who's famous for saying nobody knows anything. And he's talking about the most surprising flop of his career. and it is a movie about a World War I fighter pilot. Very similar. Like, we have similar flop, flop experiences, obviously mine,

not quite as high profile or important. But he blames himself for some, like, plot dynamic that he fucked up in his account of, like, why the movie didn't do well. But I really think there's something our collective unconscious just rejects about stories, of early pilots. Like, their wonder in the face of flight,

their amazement at the sheer miracle of it, it's a part of us that we've had to kill off to get into airplanes and travel. Like, it's no big deal. I don't know. That's a loose theory that I've been working through ever since that article tanked. I've not been able to get over it 15 years ago.

Anyways, that is a true testament to Amelia Earhart's charisma and, like, cultural imprint that she is still so, iconic despite the fact that her main thing was doing something we no longer allow ourselves to be impressed by and haven't for a long time. Another way, history has been unkind to her legacy, I'd say. I'm no fashion expert, but one of her biographies was like one achievement she's rarely credited for is the creation of the first celebrity fashion line. And I have to say this is probably because her fashion line looks like shit, as do all of the standard fashions of that time. I feel like there's a line somewhere around like the 50s maybe where clothes before that time

look completely terrible to me. And anytime someone has like good fashion before that time, it's like, who is this alien? Like during the Frida Kahlo research, you would see in the documentary, these photographs of her around people in her era, like in the 20s and 30s, I think is when she visited New York. And she's like this beautifully dressed person just walking through a sea of like utter sepiatone bullshit. Anyways, that is about it. That's why I think all the stuff I wanted to hit in the notebook dump.

That's going to do it for Amelia Earhart. Very fascinating episode. Thanks for listening to it. We are back next week. We're going back to the world of fictional characters. We are going to be talking about one Indiana Jones in next week's episode. So it's a very fun conversation. So tune in for that.

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