The Daily Zeitgeist - Icon #36: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Mutant Mt. Rushmore

Episode Date: September 7, 2026

In this edition of The Iconograph, Jack and Miles are joined by podcaster Will Poole AKA Kristi Yamaguchimane to talk about one of the top 4 groups of 4: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles! They'll explore the turtles' thoroughly unserious creation, their turn from violent comic to kid friendly franchise, and the fact that there is no "secret of the Ooze"... it's just Ooze, ok? Find a new angle.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading for. the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

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Calabunga. Instead of looking into the Zykeyes through current events on Monday mornings, we are looking at the Zykeyes to the powerful pop-cultural deities that are our icons. I'm Jack O'Brien, one of the founders of Cracked. And this week, we're talking about one of the youngest icons we've covered, both canonically. They're canonically teenagers. To this day, even though they've usually scanned as like maybe 20-something. Yeah. Alcoholics. Yeah. If they said they were teenagers, you'd be like, oh, okay, something's wrong.

Something's wrong. But also in terms of when they were invented, they were technically invented three years before Bart Simpson, who we've covered, and a few years before the Mr. Bean TV show debuted, although Mr. Bean, he was workshop in Mr. Bean throughout the 80s, but yeah, invented

basically around the same time as Bart Simpson, with whom they share the predilection for skateboards and the catchphrase Cowabunga. They hail from the world of comics where they're the rare hero that pulled a reverse Spider-Man,

starting as normal animal mutating into human form. Like if a normal wolverine was bitten by a radioactive Hugh Jackman. But while Bart is younger by a few years, they didn't really take the modern form we know them for until 87, the same year that Bart Simpson was born, when the cartoon added color-coded masks, pizza-loving sort of party animal vibes, B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-Restty, Cran. None of that was in the original comics.

And when it finally arrived, it was over for all of us hoes. There's a rumor that Axel Rose delayed a Guns and Roses show at the height of his fame and power on the Use Your Illusion Tour because he was watching Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, too, the secret of the use. And wouldn't come out until it was over. He's just like, I gotta see where, I gotta see where they're going with this, man. That's right. This week we're talking teenage mute ninja turtles. Teenage mute ninja turtles. Teenage mute in ninja turtles.

Heroes are in a half shell. Turtle power. Turtle power. I'm thrilled to be joined, as always by my co-host. He removed his tail in the late 80s because from certain angles it looked like he. was hanging a huge dick. It's Miles Gray. Hey,

Turtle power. Turtle power. Turtle power. Great to be here. Turtle power. Turtle power. Turtle fucking power. Turtle fucking power, brother.

I can't wait. Turtle power, brother. Uh-oh. You think there was, there hadn't to have been like a hillbilly problematic turtle power shirts. Like what people are making a home. And we know what that means, my man. Yeah, Home Brew Simpson's shirts wear like the turtle power.

Home blue white supremacy. Yeah. Miles. Yeah. We're through. Sue's going to rise again. Exactly. Sue's going to rise again.

In our third seat, the host, one of the hosts of the podcast, George Center, he pranked Ted Cruz into retweeting Ted Cruz's tiny dick. When he asks you if you party,

he just means pizza party. It's America's stepdad. Christy Yamaguchi, Maine, aka Willpool! Will! Daily zeitgeist, iconograph. Daily, zeitgeist, I canaugh. Daily Zyggeist, Icanograph. Jack and Miles are hosting, Daily Zygai Gist.

There we go. One of the most enduring theme songs of all time by longs. Like, for parody, it's the most, one of the most ripe for throwing whatever phrase you want into, still to this day. It's very musically complex. You're a musician, Will. You understand. This is a... Let's break it down, Jack.

Yeah. Let's get into it. I think it's pulling from many of Mozart's sonatas. I was written by Chuck Lorry, who is the creator of two and a half men and... Big Bang Theory? Big Bang Theory. Yeah.

Chuck Lurie wrote the theme song to that? Wrote the theme song. At the time. time he was trying to be yeah he he had i think they were like you have two hours here's two thousand dollars come back with the theme song all spent on cocaine exactly all spent on cocaine he's like do you need instruments no i will be buying two thousand dollars worth of cocaine yeah that's what he'll be going for this in two hours yeah yeah it might be 2200 actually she does all that when you listen to the theme song and they're like what a radical rat and you know like the little ad libs that's also chuck lord

Like he's fucking old He's on the track There's one of the background That's just screaming So wow Donatello does machines I like

Just does machines Yeah Fuck it man That's good enough man Yeah And he's rude but cool Yeah yeah yeah Yeah and he's a fucking party dude

Man fuck yeah yeah right that down I'm a party dude He's a party dude This is good Let's party dude I will say Like anybody else

who talks about how much they like to party this much has a drug problem. They're the only people who talk about how much they love to party and don't have a drug problem. They are the part of Hollywood that the right is warning us about. You know, like there's nothing good going on there at all. But I was surprised to learn in the research that they are technically a part of this trend that was happened in the late 80s, early 90s,

where adult franchises would get children, like children's media adaptations. Like, they are, when you find out what the original comic was like, they are basically is inappropriate for children's cartoons as like Rambo and Robocop, which also had children's cartoons. In issue number one of the black and white comic that invented them, they kill 15 people in the first scene. Jesus Christ.

And in the last scene, they offer Shredder the dignity to commit ritual suicide on top of a building.

And then when he demures, they throw him off the roof into a dumpster while he's holding an active grenade. So he explodes

on impact. That's awesome. That's so cool. Yeah, that's so cool. These comics were like a send-up of like

the comics at the time. like they were like Eastman and Laird right I believe are the the greenerred yeah we'll get into them they were they were mainly a parody of a lot of the trends in comics at the time but also like there was something in the zeitgeist about I feel like in the the mid 80s with turtles and like New York like with Mario as as popular as Mario yeah

I didn't make that connection but that's a really good point it's it like like with cupa and these anthropomorphic turtles and just like what turned in like with the movies especially like the like the like I feel like just Japanese

like white white guys versions of like what they think Japanese culture is giant anthropomorphic turtles the ooze like just the textural weird on screen depiction of goo.

Yeah. Like, it, like, those movies are, are super gooey. Oh, yeah.

And, like, and then when the Super Mario Brothers movie got made, remember, like, the fungus, like the, the,

all the, all the, all the gooiness from, from that, too. So I feel like there's, like, kinship or

spiritual connection between those two franchises for some reason. Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah. Like,

traveling through pipes and shit, you know? Yeah, yeah, Sewers, yep, yep. Yeah, they're basically just the answer to the question from Americans. I wonder what turtles are like in Japan. Yeah.

If they got a bunch of toxic waste dumped on them. Yeah. What happens? I'd also put them in the category of adolescent children with confusing sexual tension with like weird science. Goonies had the thing where like Mikey kisses the older girl, like big era of, like young boys who have like nascent sexual feelings

toward older girls or women that they don't really understand because their their relationship with April is fraught yeah yeah you know it's definitely the era of Hollywood screenwriter

like nerds who were not good with women getting to depict their fantasies on screen I wonder like version of sexuality would make the most sense for me to write as a grown man. Ah, yes, 11-year-old boy. That's my level

of development. And this buxom journalist just kind of like happens upon me. Yeah. She's like kind of into me, but like I'm not going to do anything about it. It's also kind of taking care of me because I'm still like a teenage. I'm still baby. Yeah, it's totally it's totally the crush they had on their babysitter

coming through in the story. For sure. Yeah. Was she in the original? She was in the original comic book? She was, but she was not a reporter. She was a babysitter. Laird and Eastman were like She was mommy.

And they were like, they, you know, they fucked up our vision by making her reporter who the turtles always have to like rescue. Like she should have been, I think she was a little bit more self-possessed in the original. I will also say that this was an important time for me because with the, it's very progressive in the,

um, cross species thing. This was, this was a time that, um, Paula Abdul was, uh, kind of coming out with MC Scap Cat.

Yeah. It was like the first, the first, the first, Paul Abdul was my first big crush. And when MC Scat cat was like the character with whom she showed the most romantic chemistry, I was like,

kind of fucked up over it. Yeah. But I feel like the turtles and April kind of made it. okay, you know. There's just like, yeah, this is fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the first time that we've done a icon.

I think that it's a group instead of an individual character or a person. And I want to talk about that because I think that's important. I think that like groups of four are a constant across pop culture. And there's something about groups of four that lend themselves to, like, being sort of represented,

like those, like, which girl's character are you? Which sex in the city character are you? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly, exactly. The sorting, which sex in the city character are you sorted in by the sorting hat? And, yeah, Sorin Bowie once wrote an episode of After Hours about how these groups of four usually, like, can be broken down into, like, the four basic. humors as defined by Hippocrates.

There's like blood, yellow bile, black bile, phlegm, which you may recognize as medically wrong. But, you know, ancient Greece, their gods were probably like, theological and scientifically wrong, but they had a tendency to like aim for science and accidentally nail something inherent about human nature. So I, first I want to ask you, did you guys have a. particular allegiance to any of the four turtles. Yeah, uh, yeah, I, I think most kids started off as Michelangelo.

Yes. Lovers. Because that's like the, he's like the most immature one. And you're like, yeah, dude fucking cowabunga forever. And then as I got older, I kind of began to like identify more with Raphael. Interesting. And just being kind of like, rooting a little. Yeah, it's kind of darkness.

There was a darkness. I'm like, yeah, my friends were kind of doing their thing. I'm like doing drugs in the sewers and shit, trying to work through some shit. Like, I'm very literal. There's trouble at home. Your parents aren't like getting along.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know I went through that, you know. Yeah, and I was like, I'm a little bit more of a wrath type guy. Now, I don't, that was the last time I really thought about it. But that was my sort of A to B. I will say, I always, like, I kind of,

it's kind of a goody too. I was always identified. I always identified with Leonardo. Oh, You leo ass, motherfucker. I had a theory coming into this that nobody was Raphael or Leonardo. Like, everybody when they were a kid was like, I'm either Michelangelo because he's like fun and likes fun, which I like.

Or Donatello. But like you guys immediately are the other two. I'll tell you what. Like, when I was, when I was a kid, I remember like my friend's parents always, I always seem to be the one that they trusted their kids to hang out. with. I was always like, you know, because I would talk to my friend's parents. I would, you know, it was real good conversationally at a young age. And so I felt like I had responsibility, you know, to like keep us out of trouble and kind of like steer us from doing the stupidest shit we could,

you know, like stupid shit was okay. But like, let's not do the dumbest possible thing, right? So like, I kind of gravitated towards Leonardo and I really, I like the swords. I like I just dug the crisscross swords on the back. Like I thought that was the coolest shit. Those are the sickest weapons. I said that, Will, because I was like the exact same kid for like my parents. Other parents are like, what is Miles doing? Is he right?

He's the smart one. Me too, but I did not have the self-awareness to know I was Leonardo or want to be Leonardo. I was in denial because I was a responsible Leonardo-ass kid. But I wanted to, but I so deeply was like, no, it can't be. I'm a party dude. I'm a party dude. Inside you, there are four turtles.

Which way Western man. Yeah. You're just a very self-aware. I was definitely a Leonardo who wanted to be Michelangelo. But I asked my kids and they were like, Michaelangelo, Donatello. And I was like, actually, you're right. You guys are. Yeah.

Michelangelo and Donateau. So I'm glad I named you those exact names. But I do want to, just in paying tribute to this being the first, you know, multiple and the first group of four that we've done. I want to just like run through, kind of construct a Mount Rushmore of Mount Rushmore's,

a top four of top four, like the most iconic groups of four. Because I do think they're like, for whatever. reason groups of four are super interesting to talk about. Like the the, you know, which Harry Potter House are you

you know, fuck turfs, but like that, that is an interesting conversation that is like a great getting to know you thing. And it was most of the internet there for close to a decade, taking the quiz to find out which character you are from, from a

specific, you know, show or movie. Right. Yeah. Victor is adding which element from Avatar are you? Oh, yeah, that's a good one. The airbender? So are you like an airbender, water bender, Earthbender, fire?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Heart. I didn't even have that on my list. Shit, that's Captain Planet. There were five in Captain America, right? Or Captain Planet. Captain Planet. Yeah, Captain Planet.

And that's why that show sucks. It's because they threw heart in there. Like, idiots. Yeah, exactly. Yep, yeah. I'm just going to run through some of the iconic groups of four, and then we can put together

our Mount Rushmore. of groups of four. The Beatles, I think, is an interesting one, because if you're a fan of the Beatles, like you go through multiple, like, I'm kind of like a John or like, then you have your like George phase and personality-wise.

Personality-wise, well, it's interesting because it's kind of the opposite of Ninja Turtles in that like the Michelangelo of the Beatles is the last one that anyone's ever going to want to identify with. But sex in the city. I think are pretty powerful slash golden girls. You know, they're kind of similar. Blanche and Samantha.

Entourage is the younger, it's the young man's version of sex in the city. The Ghostbusters. That's a good one. Seinfeld. Scooby-Doo Humans has been mentioned in here a lot. The South Park characters. Matthew Mark

John Luke of course The Gospels The girls from girls All right I already know my number one is And the four seasons All right The Gospels

Who you got Matthew Mark Luke and John Obviously Yeah Obviously Don't even sell you this whole process By name John is Michael Angelo

Obviously a bit of a wild card A little apocalyptic Everybody knows Luke was the party dude You know what I mean God of those. And I guess Jesus is Master Splinter, right? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, everybody, you know, the entourage guys have Ari. Right. Evangelists have Jesus. Right, right. Turtles have Master Splinter. I feel like Sex and the City

could have used to the Master Splinter, you know? Yeah. Was someone, no one was necessarily, yeah. It was, I don't know what this relationship was. But no one had a relation to all four, right? I feel like I've seen that show through like TikTok clips and that's pretty much it. So, yeah.

Well, wait for that. I'm a coo crew, Christopher, Christopher Robin, you know what I mean? The Winnie the Pooh crew, not some weird scat porn that I'm only familiar with. Sounds like, as we know, the poo crew.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, people always talk about the Beatles, but for me, I think I like, um, God. Oh, the Fantastic Four is also. No, it's not them either.

Yeah. I feel like, I don't even know. It's like, yeah, that's, that's one that. In terms of, like, which ones are most fun to discuss, I feel like entourage because you, like, learn so much from someone being like, I'm actually the vince of my girl. Oh, God. That's, like, such a weird red flag. If someone ever used that show to then be like, there's a guy named Turtle in that, right?

Yeah. I mean, obviously a reference. And Turtle is the Michelangelo. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It fits, it fits for sure. the King of the Hill characters, Victor just mentioned. That's a good set.

That's in there. That's a good one. I guess, I mean, yeah. I go Beatles, Sex and the City, Ninja Turtles. And then, yeah, it's got to be the evangelist. Or the four seasons. I feel like four seasons. The actual weather seasons is a good one.

Oh, we're going meta like that. Yeah, you can go meta if you want. Because I mean, I do feel like people are like, which are you a winter? What's your favorite season? What do you identify with more? Actually, yeah. The older I get, the more I understand why, like, older people move south.

I cannot handle the winter anymore. Like, I'm slowly evolving, similar to the way that, like, people identify, you know, with one character and then move to the other. So I'm doing that with the seasons for sure. Oh, man. I'd love to know about seasons. I think that's a good, I think that's a good Mount Rushmore of Mount Rushmore. As long as Matthew Mark and John are up there. Yeah.

As long as we're making room for my own soul. Making room for the Lord, you know. What about the masters that the turtles are named after? Like the artists. Wait, who are they named after? Wait, what are you talking about? Well, so I was imagining before Miles just did that, imagining a dude that finds out after the fact that like these were real Renaissance artists.

Yeah, which is... Dude, what? Dude, what the fuck are you talking about? I thought Leonardo DiCaprio was named after fucking Leonardo from the Ninja Turtles. Fuck. Yeah, the Pousy Pousy could probably, I'm sure you could get a top four from that group. Definitely, definitely. Yeah.

I mean, that did also, that was like a passive secondary educational lesson you got from this, because I remember my parents being like, why are they named after like the Renaissance artists? And I was like, they're not. Mom, you idiot. Yeah. And I remember knowing what the Vitruvian man sort of sketch was. But then my mom was like, no, this stuff.

I'm like, no fucking way. Like, how did they come up with this shit? Yeah. And that's another connection to the Mario Brothers thing. These Italian, like the Italian aspect of giving them that name. There are those names with Mario and Luigi. They really dodged a bullet because when they first, created them. They were like, and we'll name them after Japanese words and concepts. And they were

like, oh, wait, we're a couple stoned white guys from Massachusetts. Never mind. Let's go with something else. Hey, make him kill him with a grenade after he throws him off the roof. That body count was so much higher than I expected it to be. 15 in the first scene is so wild. Just body part. Because like that, so to make it into a cartoon, like one of the big innovations was like, okay, that we'll make all the bad guys robots. That way, like, they can be dismembering enemies,

but, like, those enemies, instead of being, like, standing in a pile of body parts afterwards, they'll be standing in a pile of, you know, sparking robot parts. Well, the one clan was also just, you know, faceless enemies that got, stormtroopers, basically.

Yeah, yeah. And they occasionally, those bodies piled up, too, but they would just be like, pow knocked out rather than like I decapitated you with my fucking patana yeah that opening uh scene from the second movie where all the the bodies are piled up yeah one's like hanging from the roof spinning yeah yeah it's a it's a classic so we're gonna get into the origin the movies all that we're gonna take a quick break we'll be right back behind every night spent making the kids lunches there's a lot of suspense will they finally eat the veggies will the pasto survive the first bite will the lunch box

come home empty, half full, or come home at all. And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.za for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people,

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Wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. And I will say, like, we're going to get into the two guys who invented them. will say, like, across the history of the evolution of the Ninja Turtles from invention through, like, when I think I heard about them and most people heard about them in the late 80s, early 90s, they got very lucky, like, they kept running into, like, just breaks of good luck. Like, there's this one point where the, so this guy's just like, I'm going to take this adult comic, the Ninja Turtles,

those are just like bloody and violent as hell. Am I going to turn it into a toy? And then the idea after that is, well, all these toys, like the Transformers and He-Man and stuff, the way that they really pushed sales was by making a cartoon. So we're going to do that. That's the order it went in was like toy and then we'll make a cartoon.

So they're like real half-assed. Like we're going to, you know, just shit out five to ten. episodes of this cartoon. And at that time, like the yen is at its absolute lowest that it's ever been, I think. It's like a crash in the value of the yen. And they're able to hire this Japanese studio, animation studio,

called Toyet, I believe, who is the studio behind like Dragon Ball Z. It would be like if Pixar was suddenly available to like work on web series. And the end, like, the end, like, drops and then bounces back almost immediately. But, like, for this brief window, they're able to hire this amazing animation studio to create the first, like, five episodes of this series, which is what, like, gets it off the ground.

It gives them their character design. And they also, like, get lucky to work with these individual people. There's this guy Peter Chung, who's, like, a legend in the industry. he goes on to create and direct Eon Flux, which is like this really acclaimed adult cartoon does stuff with Animatrix, is the designer of all of the characters

and Rugrats, and he does, like, you know, of course they got Chuck Laurie. You can't be Chuck Laurie for writing the song, but he designs and like storyboards that intro, like the visuals for the intro, which is like amazing. And like one of the first things

and most iconic things that, and like, they just get him because he hasn't done all that other stuff quite yet. And then the guy who designs the action figures is, like, this visionary person who's, like, in retrospect, everyone's like, oh, he's, like, one of the greatest toy designers of all time. He's the guy who, like, created He Man, essentially. And so they just, like, keep running into these really great breaks of finding amazing talent. Right. And those, those action figures, I don't know if you've,

seen the like how some of these figures there is a we talked about it on an episode of George Center recently there is a civil war soldier Raphael there's like a

there is some bizarre I don't know where like what the the lore is to some of these action figures why they went so hard with these things I mean the first one the military the first batch of military ones came out around

Desert Storm. That's how I knew what side I was on. I had all of them. I had the pilot Donatello. There was like Lieutenant Leo. Michelangelo was a fucking sailor.

Schwartz scoff splinter. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Shredder Hussein. It was all really cool. But yeah, like, I remember like that's when like they really started being like, bro, we're just trying to fucking make, really make money. And I think that's what

kind of Eastman and Laird, they had like a weird relationship with it, because obviously like, it started off as like gritty comic book. And then they were kind of smart enough to be like, let playmates do whatever they're going to do, I guess. You guys do your thing. I'm going to push back to like Toe Animation Studio when they're like, yeah, this is how I think it should look for this animated thing because we're the goat animation studio at that time. Because they went on, they also did one piece. You know, it's just like, yeah, they got very fortunate. Yeah, they just, yeah,

happen to work on this toy commercial. Fucking, um, yeah, and Eastman and Laird are great because they're kind of part of this, um, creator empowerment thing in that when they create this comic book, they don't like go and immediately sell it to Marvel and stuff

like that. And, uh, they retain the rights for a long time and then sell it for, $60 million, which ends up being way too cheap. Jesus. Has it generated like $15 billion or something? Yeah, they fucked up.

But like at least they didn't sell it at the, like right after they invented it for. Right, right. And basically they would just like license it off, collect the checks and then talk shit about the stuff that was being made. There's all these quotes of them being like, well, the cartoon is dumb as fuck, as we all know. But yeah, so Eastman's background, he has like a part of his origin story where he like spent summers at his grandma's house near a pond where he like would encounter a lot of turtles.

And he said, I loved going up there. I'd go down to the runoff or just a slow moving waterway. And you just see different kinds of painted turtles or a couple of snapping turtles, which to me was the coolest because they were like smaller present day dining. dinosaurs, which is the thing that I recently said on the show. Yeah. He's like, I think that my love of turtles definitely came from that experience as a child.

But like, yeah, if you just view turtles through the eyes of a child, like, they're, and you just like haven't seen one before. Like, what's so cool about a unicorn?

This fucker's got like a house on his back. It's made of his ribs. And you're like, can't get me. Yeah, exactly. Did he also talk about his love? Was he pouring?

chemicals on them as a kid too. Yeah, yeah. So I started pouring, experimenting with various glowing forms of gasoline. My friends to beat up my bullies. He was into violent comic books,

Daredevil, Captain America, Batman. He loved Jack Kirby. And this is a time when people were like, he like submitted to RISD and like all these design schools and art schools. And they were like,

why are you? drawing cartoons in your submission. Get this shit out of here. Like, you know, your fine art is the only thing that we're after. So very much setting himself up for one day having a biopic. He, you know,

everyone being like, this stuff is too radical. Get out of our design school. And then Peter Laird, similar story, comic book artists. When he and Eastman first met, he's working as an illustrator,

drawing like, campus maps of his college and like drawing things like some dungeons and dragons graphics and just like whatever his local newspaper will hire him to draw he's just like I don't know drawing is my thing right so he doesn't really have a career other than just like draw you know basically what AI is now used for was what they were using him for and they just start getting the implicate like you watch the documentary and it's like the implication is they were just like getting high and like making each other laugh drawing shit uh while watching tv and one night they doodled the turtles and like he's always like we were just pissing our pants to be honest eastman loves to talk that out we were fucking

pissing our pants bro literally literally do i was shit faced i was freaking mashed pal yeah eastman wrote ninja turtle at the top of the page laird laughed and drew his own ninja turtle Pete drew a cooler one. Then, of course, I had to top his sketch. So I drew four of them standing in a dramatic pose. Pete inked it and added teenage mutant to the Ninja Turtle part. And, like, they're just, like, doing a silly, like, how dumb would this be type thing? And then they're like, maybe we should make a comic out of that.

I love those origin stories where the thing that ends up defining, like, you hear someone is, like, pursuing something like serious, like they're going to college or whatever. And then the thing they do for shits and giggles is what ends up, you know, striking right at the right time. Yeah. Yeah. That's very much the case here. They're also real into like violent TV shows.

I think they were saying they were watching like the A team or something like that as they were drawing this, which ends up having a legacy in the show, which like people are like, this is, do you guys remember, like, what a, like, how freaked out everyone was by, like, the violence in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles when we were kids? No, were they? Oh, man, yeah. Teachers were fucking losing their minds, yeah. I vaguely remember, I think I've watched, like, on YouTube TV reports about, you know,

the phenomenon of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and how kids are, like, hitting each other with, with stuff in, in classrooms. Yeah, yeah. You know, ER injuries are up, you know, for young children right now. I know in, like, in England, they changed the, the idea that the concept of a ninja was like a thing that, like, to English. They changed it to Teenage mutant hero turtles. Teenage mutant hero turtles. Yeah.

The UK, Austria, Germany, Norway, and Belgium. That's so funny, man. Like, I don't know. Just the quaint thing. that they used to try to, like, protect us from is just... Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

I'm just saying, 1991, this is from the research, 1991, a national survey of 73 U.S. teachers found 69 of them, so 95% of them expressed concerns about the negative side effects of the turtles on children. 95% especially about the levels of violence and aggression they were seeing. I mean, I guess that's true because like when I think about playing Ninja Turtles like me and my friend was just like terrorize his like little sister. Yeah. With like wrapping paper tubes.

Yeah. You know, like Donatello, but I don't know, we made it safe enough. And I think it's funny too because That freak out was happening in 1991, 10 years later, 9-11, you know? You're right. You're right.

I mean, I was like, I was, so when the first movie came out, I was five, then the sequel came out, I was six, but so I got really into X-Men around, like when the cartoon hit, and I was like taking anything that I could find, sticking in between my fingers

to be Wolverine at all times. Oh, hell, yeah. Yeah, that was like, maybe the turtles, the turtles crawled, so the X-Men and Power Rangers and all the other stuff that I you know, reenacted in my backyard with giant

PVC tubes and anything else I could find, rakes and whatever. I remember I could hit somebody with. I remember my friend's dad having real nunchucks. Like, you know, like, sort of like, you know, like weird agro 80s dad display nunchucks. And I remember fucking hitting myself in the head so fucking hard. What year was this transam? Yeah, it's a teetop.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a pro fucking short. Yeah. You know it's a fucking teetop. Still wearing that Arreel speed wagon cut off tea with the d. with the dangle earring. He's like,

what's up, guys, you fuck with my nunchucks. Leave some pussy for the rest of those, dude. But I remember having this, like, confidence of, like, watching. I was like, dude, I fuck with Michelangelo the character enough. Let me see that shit.

One spin, and I almost fucking concussed myself, being like, fuck! And, like, suddenly being, like, really bummed out how it actually, like,

that it was an actual martial art that I was like, yeah, You probably chose the better, like, at least you weren't using one of the bladed weapons. Sure, like cutting your head off. I mean, he did have a, you know, that guy also had a katana collection. Oh, yeah. For sure.

Yeah. Absolutely for sure. I have a pair of legit nunchucks in my bedroom right now that I have more than once practiced with and tried to try to get smooth. There you go with it. So what is it about nunchucks, man? I don't know, man. I don't, like, they're so cool and they also are, like, feel so impractical. I don't know.

I don't know what the legit history with Nunchucks are as far as, like, uh, how practical they ever were, but damn, if they aren't the coolest things. Yeah. You know who never asked questions about the legit history of Nunchucks? Michael Angelo. Yeah. Yeah. Just talking like people who don't like to party.

Exactly. He was too busy partying, man. Fuck that. Yeah. I mean, I think the. a mutant thing, like when they created the comic in the first place,

like, Teenage was a reference to like DC's New Teen Titans, which was popular right then. Mutant was a reference to like uncanny X-Men and Ninja was daredevil was where they're in

for that. But yeah, they were like pulling things from the zeitgeist. I'm pretty sure I learned from a cracked article that essentially there is, there's a scene in like the first issue or, the original comics where the, uh,

Eastman and Lairdard redrew the accident that created Daredevil because he had this like toxic stuff spilled on him. Yeah. And the ooze from that car accident, you know, like, create the turtles. And then creates the turtles.

So it's part of like a shared universe, uh, in their minds. Which they weren't part like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They weren't officially part of it.

they were just like recreated the origin story of Daredevil and then had the ooze create the turtles and then had like a bunch of injokes to Daredevil like was Daredevil the biggest they treat it like it was like the biggest comic in the world like the whole thing is like an in joke for people who've read the origin story of Daredevil it was to them for sure exactly absolutely just happened whatever happened to be in front of them when they were high like drawing the first issue. But yeah, Splinter is a reference to it because Daredevil's Sensei is stick and the hand is like the badge

ninja army that he fights. So the foot clan is. Oh, shit. Okay. But yeah, they're just like, this is just a small, very niche thing for Daredevil fans. Right. It ends up being like this massive fucking thing.

Way bigger than Daredevil. Yeah, slightly, slightly bigger than Daredevil. Laird is like kind of circumspect about why it was successful, which I think this is accurate. He says the name of the book itself, which had even more of an effect. It's hard to say at this point, but I know that the crazy name we gave this book always seemed to generate a second look for the uninitiated, which I think that's got to. Like, it's such a crazy name that everybody's just like, fuck. That's interesting. It sounds like a joke.

and then you read it and it's like, no, we're taking this very seriously. It gives you, there's like, it gives you everything in the title to such a degree. Like, dare devil,

like there's nothing, there's nothing in that, that explains that the guy's blind and sees with his sense of hearing and stuff. But they just give you all the information you need to be like, what the fuck? What? How is this a thing? What now?

Yeah. Middle age mutant blind guy, vision see, he had an accident with heightened sense. to compensate. Chuck, we need you, come here,

man, come here, we need a theme song for this guy. Yes, I've got an ounce of cocaine, dude, don't worry. I wouldn't ask you unless I didn't have

your party or your songwriting fuel or whatever you call it. Seriously. But they were basically, the comics sold really well. They were making a good living for up until like,

I think they started, they peaked in like 87, I think. Yeah, They peaked at a 135,000 copies sold with issue number eight. There was like an indie pipeline that you could go through. And then they did stuff. It's one of those origin stories where it's like, man, things used to be.

Things used to be really, like they bought one ad that like held them to the top. They borrowed a thousand dollars from like his uncle or something. Yeah, they really borrowed a couple thousand dollars and we're like, God, we're able to pay it back and we even made a $200 profit on the first issue. It's interesting to see like the uptake of the comic book is so similar to like the toy where they're like, I don't know, man, we might take a bath on this first one. And they sold every single copy out. And then like they doubled the printing and then they did that and then like quadrupled

the printing for the second issue and it sold out immediately. And truly I think because people at the time were just like, fuck yeah, dude, teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Fuck, yes, dude, yes. And then, yeah, the rest. Then the kids have this exact same brain. We're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, teenage mute. Yeah, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

It's so kid-brained. And then when it, like, comes time to make the movie, like the degree to which Hollywood, like, one of the first ideas that they had for making a movie version of it was a, so Roger Corman's New World Pictures approached them about, a comedy starring stand-up comics like Gallagher, Sam Kinnison, Bobcat, Goldthwaite, and Billy Crystal, dressed in turtle shells and wearing green makeup. I'm sorry, what was the original pitch? That was the first pitch to take the teenage mutant ninja turtles into the realm of movies.

Was Billy Crystal and fucking Gallagher in green face makeup and like, shitty? now I'm just going to be thinking about which one is which who is Sam Kinnison playing which of the turtles Rathias Raffer is grumpy as shit man like he's I don't I think Gallagher thinks of himself as the main character though you know yeah he's definitely thinking of himself as Leonardo Bobcat would probably be Michelangelo I love Michael and a kid. Yeah, definitely. I mean,

or Bobcat as a kid. There's another pitch for an R-rated one that involved the turtles battling roller skating, semi-naked nuns with Uzi's. Like, adults are just like so weird, man. I'm not mad at that. I'm not mad at it,

but it's just like, there's like, well, we'll do it with like comics with green face, like looking like they're in bad Halloween costumes. Wait, no? Who are those?

Horny then. Yeah. No, like that's not what people are looking for, man. I wonder which writer pitched that. That sounds like the toxic Avenger movie from the 80s. I've been thinking about Toxic Avengers this whole time because, I mean, just the connection with the ooze and stuff. But, like, another famously, like, gooey franchise as far as, like, on-screen, moist movies.

Oh, yeah. The moisture's off the charts here. Oh, yeah. It really is. The screen's sweating right now. Yeah. So, yeah. It hit, like it kind of takes off as an indie comic and then this licensing agent, it's so funny because it's like this great thing that we all identify with.

And, but like the way it moves is like a licensing agent named Mark Friedman comes and is like, I'm going to take this thing mainstream. And they're just like, all right, we'll sell you the like you will give it to you for $150,000 and see what you do with it. And he's able to sell it. And then, yeah, they're able to make this show that is just a. toy commercial and they're like, all right, we're going to take, they're not going to be,

I guess their thing, their pizza before was beer, like in the comics. And they're like, we're going to change that over to pizza. We're going to add catchphrases, like Calbonga. Um,

we're going to add skateboard and surf culture. We're going to give them like the different colors. Before that, they all had red bandanas, which is fucking crazy that they didn't, like the, the, that's so, like based on the guardian angels or something.

Yeah, exactly. They're all kind of like the guardian angels. And then there's that fifth turtle, Curtis Sliwa. Oh my God. Honestly, like, imagine,

like Curtis Silla is basically a ninja turtle. Like, now that I think about it. He does command an army of cats, right? Like, isn't he a cat? I think so,

yeah, has wild numbers of cats. Um, Holy shit. This is when they have to remove the tail. The turtles prior to this time had tails. But on a turtle standing up in 3D, a tail hanging down looked too phallic looking from the front. Yeah.

A little bit. A little bit. Why's that turtle got a big old dick. Because he's fucking hard, bro. Big honking dick, dog. He's down to fucking fight, man. April just walked by, bro. What do you expect?

This is from Laird talking about their initial response. to, or what he said, had I been making the key creative decisions for that first animated series, it would have been very different. Among other things, there would likely have been no moronic henchmen like Bebop and Rocksteady, the two perfectly named henchmen of all time. Totally. The Shredder would have been seriously malevolent. April would not have been a reporter and consistently need to be rescued by the turtles.

So feminist icon. the turtles would not have been so ridiculously obsessed with pizza and the show would not have had a joke so he's just basically like the iconic stuff nah let's get that out of here I would want to make it so that it wouldn't be massively successful as a children's show and make me wealthy I was fine paying my uncle's loan back

truly an artist an example of an artist in his own way like just exactly and they also got in their own way by immediately like hating each other. Like once they made this thing that was successful, they immediately were just like,

fuck this guy. And they start like, the early comics that everybody likes are them working together. And then they like have to start like trading off because they can't work together anymore. But when the toys blow up, they don't mind spending the money.

They start receiving checks for over one million dollars. They are some of my favorite examples of what people spent money on. Eastman's large purchases involved a M15A Stewart Light Tank which they used during paintball wars Laird owned 32 motorcycles

at one point plus one of the first Hummers made available to the public Is it him and Schwarzenegger Like you're either going to get Arnold Or you're going to get one of the Ninja Turtles creators driving down Hollywood Boulevard Yeah

Can you imagine there's in a pissing contest over that. He's like, Larry's son of a bitch. If you look at what Laird looks like, he looks like an accountant for IBM from like in the mid-80s. You'd be like, yeah, you got 32 motorcycles

at home? Sure, asshole. Yeah, I doubt it. Yeah, right. It looked like Hans Molman in real life. Honestly, like the thought of to know that your artistic vision of your create, you I wanted the turtles to be drunk all the time, okay?

And that's what I'm unhappy with. Like, for that to be the artistic hill that you died on and didn't make all of this money would be one of the funniest footnotes to someone's career of all time. We just never would have heard of the Ninja Turtles. I mean, I guess they did have the good sense to just be like, yeah, I don't know, man, fine. Yeah. I guess. I guess, okay?

I fucking guess, guys. I'm sure because the guys at playmates are like, dude, look, we know. we know what the fuck we're doing. Right. So do you want fucking money? Or do you want to be, you want to fuck this all up? And I'm sure.

Or do the turtles need to be drunk all the time? Yeah, yeah. Okay. So, all right, guys. Bring back the original idea is we want the big, weird, dick, drunk turtles. That I'm sure the kids are going to fucking love.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's do that. Let's make a couple prototypes of these fucking toys. Yeah. All right. Let's take one more break. We'll come back. We've got to talk to movies.

We've got to talk about Ninja Wrap, so many different things. We'll be right back. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pasto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty,

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Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. On the new podcast Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself

because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people, and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is, and not the lies you're sold about it.

It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope You listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything.

Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the Survivor Files with a little. Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. So I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators

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See you between the pages. Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin unfiltered podcast? Here's what you missed. And the argument is, do you want to win? If you don't win, you have no power. It's real. Those are the very people who I always say vote against their own economic interests and they complain about the very thing they're receiving. It's raw.

I knew that the issue of transgender athletes was not going well with a lot of black men. Roland Martin unfiltered. I went off, I said, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Y'all going to scream at Chanel, but you don't want to see a black luxury company in the same vein. Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the Black Information Network. Twelve seats, those are moving south. So if you Democrats, you don't wait to 2030. you better be hitting the ground going a heart in the South now

and download Roland Martin unfiltered on the IHart radio app Apple Podcasts wherever you get your podcasts And you're be so once the cartoon takes off And it takes off Hugh it's like has some of the highest ratings in Some of the most cynical sounding shit where they're like This thing's fucking killing in the 2 to 11 demographic You're like oh god damn the shit for brains demo Oh, yeah.

My mouth is water in the way these fucking two-year-olds are just tuning into this thing. Sesame Street ain't got shit on this. Yeah, like they were literally so hungry for the 2-211 demographic. So they decided to make a movie. They managed to hold off Gallagher. I think, I'm pretty sure that came from Gallagher's team. Like the Gary Proper is the road manager for Gallagher. at the time and he's the one who first

pitches the idea. So it was like, what is the first Gallagher vehicle that is going to take this guy to the next level? Which never came. But, so the movie. It's made by, it's directed, they get Steve Barron

to direct it. He, the movies, the early music videos that he directed are Michael Jackson's Billy Jean, aha's take on me, and Dyer's Strait money for nothing.

Whoa. The three like most iconic music videos of the early 80s. I had no idea they were all directed by the same person because they don't like, they're not all, they don't have like a signature look. He's just fucking killing. They fit those artists perfectly. Exactly.

I wanted to, was the studio being like, man, the Ninja Turtles are like Michael Jackson, man. We need somebody to be able to capture their essence in this film. And then they get the fucking Henson group to, work on the movie, which makes it just an instant classic. And Jim Henson is like, I don't like the violence.

I think it's going to one day cause 9-11. No, he's like, I don't like how violent the cartoons are. It makes you want to take pilot lessons for some reason. Stick a box cutter on a plane. I don't know what it is about this thing. That was one of the original turtle weapons. And pilot lessons. What do you do, Raff?

Okay, Michael Angelo's on Nunchucks. What about you? I know how to fly a jumbo jet. The hijackers were heard screaming Cowabunga for something. Yeah. One of the first two movies really emphasize, like is one of the most you see the Twin Towers of it. Like, they are all over the place.

Yeah, yeah. But first two movies, I think. Those exposition shots are great new. York footage from the 80s and early 90s. Yeah. But so he's hired to direct. He is able to get the Henson's on. He's like, we're going to do it.

It's not going to be mean-spirited in any way. And yeah, again, the turtles just can't stop bumping into the best talent possible because I think they are like people recognize these are like iconic characters in the making. And for the film, there are two. So the costumes are famously problematic. they had two costumes. Because of the huge penises.

Because of the massive dits. They had the green screen out. Putting on the, yeah. But there was an action turtles costume with no electronics. And then the hero turtles were the ones for like the hero shots

and, you know, straight on. And they had radio controlled motors to move the eyes, mouths, and eyebrows. It sounds just like so complicated. They created a thing called puppet tectronics. Like the name, even sounds like it's like a late 80s piece of bullshit technology.

But they managed to make it work. The process of shooting these is a nightmare, though. It's mainly shot in Wilmington, North Carolina, like many, many movies at turn that we keep bumping into this in these icon episodes. And Will, you reached out to me to point out. Yeah, a lot of Stephen King, a lot of David Lynch. and your dad was in the Carolina film industry, right? Yeah, yeah.

He started out working under a guy named Earl Owensby in the western part of the state. And he was, they were, like, sometimes they were shooting a movie a week, like these little B-movie grind house kind of slasher films. And he was coming down here so often to Wilmington to shoot movies on location down here that eventually him and my mom moved down here. and that's where I was born and still live to this day. So he did four Stephen King movies. He worked on a little bit of the first... Maximum overdrive. Maximum overdrive.

Which is Silver Bullet and the Stephen King episode. Yeah. Cursed production where Stephen King was running around flying on cocaine and dangering everyone's lives around. Hell yes. Worked on Fire Starter, Cat's Eye, Silver Bullet. And then he, as a six-year-old, he, I got to visit the set of Ninja Turtles 2, Secret of the Ouse. And I got to run Leonardo and I got to hold his swords.

I've got, you know, I sent miles of. Yeah. Yeah. As a five, I guess I would have been five because the crazy thing is the first and second Turtles movie, they came out back to back years. Yeah, like right in a row. things so fast. When they saw that the first one

was a hit, the first one was, by the way, like, weirdly, I'd never thought of it as an indie movie, but because no studio wanted to fuck with it, they were like, this is stupid. Teenage Mutant Ninja Chores, they had to, like, New Line made it, and it was the most successful indie movie of

all time until the Blair Witch project. Which is wild. Absolutely wild. But they had no idea it was going to be that successful. And when it was, they were like, okay, we need we need this in production. like three weeks ago and like absolutely turn the second one around in days so uh i got to visit um i got to visit the junkyard scene where the the foot clan meet up in the the second movie and i got to visit the

the lab what was it tgri i think is the name of the company that creates the ooze that ends up the turtles um and uh i got to meet leonardo and i'll never forget there's like like a formative memory of mine is I'm in the back of my mom's like late 80s Oldsmobile and we're driving, you know, station wagon, we're driving away from the studio and we pass like one of the sound stages and there's two guys outside

with a grinder, like an angle grinder making literally fabricating shredder's helmet with the like sharp edges, you know, how he comes back and he refashions his helmet in the second one when he shows up. I like, I saw that and like my little kid,

like I don't know what I'm looking at exactly I don't know what this portends for the next movie I've been worn out the tape of the first one you know when it came out so God, it was like such a you're looking at cinema history seriously I mean truly

it was such a cool moment for me but yeah he was he did they mainly he was on the unit that mainly did all the stunts all the stunt works you know and stuff so like not the not the hero shots not the hero masks um right but uh

uh yeah man it was a it was a cool cool thing to get to know that your dad got to work with the ninja turtles got to work with the ninja my dad's like basically best friends with the ninja turtles that's like the sickest shit that that the amount of social cachet that comes that photo you showed me of you with fucking leantless you said leonardo he's got his fucking got his arms around you it was it was it's like such a miles is holding up a a black and white photo. Like, it's like, it's like,

it's like, it's like the kind of shit. Like, that's bigger than if Michael Jordan took a picture with you like that. Like, hold on, bro. A fucking ninja, like you can fathom Michael Jordan. Here, somewhere in physical space.

And my shoes. Also, Michael Jordan from Wilmington, North Carolina. God damn. The world revolved around Wilmington, North Carolina and the lady

just real quick. I went to Costa Rica one time and we stayed at an Airbnb with this family and they had a son who was like learning English and he was asking me about where me and my wife were from and I said Wilmington North Carolina and he was asking me things about it and I said I was like you know Michael Jordan he's like yeah yeah and I was

like Michael Jordan's from there he's like whoa like he like couldn't couldn't believe that and I was like Blackbeard the pirate you ever heard of him and I was like he like would hang around looking down like ninja turtles and like by the end of the conversation I had like named it like the Venus flytrap is also native to Wilmington, North Carolina, like a 60 mile radius. He was like, what? Like, his mind was fucking blown. I was just naming these like pop culture items that he couldn't wrap it.

Like, he was like, he thought it was like the center of the world, you know. I mean, maybe it was. It is. Maybe Wilmington, North Carolina needs to be on, get its own icon episode. That's pretty crazy. Possibly. Um, well, in addition to being, making itself an ideal climate for Venus fly traps, uh, Wilmington North Carolina did not make itself an ideal climate for shooting a movie with giant foam and latex suits on the costumes were 50 pounds dry but would reach 60 to 70 pounds after

soaking up performer sweat during the course of shooting it's so gross that's hockey pad like hockey locker room level of disgusting so bad um Josh Pace uh who was the Raphael Performer said it was an intense relationship between me and the suit. We would suit up from toe up to neck. Then the head would go on. Then they would glue the head onto the body so that it was seamless. From morning to lunch, we would each lose at least five pounds. You'd hear all of a sudden one of us freak out and go like,

take the head off, take the head off. I need the head off because they only had like these very narrow areas to breathe through. And he said, and the crew didn't want to do it because it was. would slow things down because they had to like glue the thing back on. Yeah. Donatello's stump performer said, we monitor my body temperature throughout the filming and I'd reach 102 to 103 degrees

every single day. Oh my God. I had to drink a gallon of water just to keep hydrated. Jesus. Yeah. Salute. Thank you. Thank you for your sacrifice.

Thank you for your sacrifice. I will say there, there's always like the, the performers in the suits really, like, get screwed a lot throughout the history of the film. Like, they would promise the actors that they were about to, like, break their career. And then, like, not even allowed, like, Jack Reacher was Raphael in the Michael Bay one. And they were like, guys, you guys are these characters. You're going to, this is going to make you huge. And then they didn't even invite them to the premiere of the movie.

What the, is it like a time monitor. tradition to fuck over the actual human actors behind the turtles. I know. My favorite example is of course Darth Vader with David Pruss and he kept being like George I feel like my lines are being muffled in this Darth Vader suit

and George Lucas was like I wouldn't worry about it. He's like oh are we gonna re-record he's like sure are. Something like that. Somebody will. You can go find the original audio of his performance. He is like giving it his all but he just like sounds like a fussing

angry British guy. He's like, I found your lack of faith disturbing. No, I'm your father. It probably lines, I mean, if you watch Darth Vader's like mannerisms in that movie, he is stage acting. Like, he is a London school of like theatrical acting every line.

Yeah. And they're like, I think we're going to go with it. So this is the voice of God, James Earl Jones. Yeah. He was still just like, got to tell you, I think you're making a big mistake. Find them and destroy them.

It's like, um, yeah. It's like, we need James. But, yeah, the movie makes a shitload of money. So two things happen. They quickly turn around the coming out of their shell tour, um, which is a live stage show that starts touring America. That's like in the kind of world of ice capades and Sesame Street live shows. where the Ninja Turtles just are,

like mainly they're like a music, like a band. And they have no shells. And they have no shells. Yeah, because the shells were too fucking heavy. I went to that tour at the Universal Amphitheater in like 1990

for my friend's birthday. And I remember getting like a, like some of the merch you could buy was just like a shitty foam eye band. You could wear over your eyes and just velcroed in the back. I had the orange one for Michelangelo. And it's like the shittiest concert ever.

But like as a kid, you're just like, fuck yeah, they're wearing denim. I don't like, fuck it, whatever. Yeah. And the whole plot of it is so stupid because Shredder's like creates a device to take all the music out of the world. And therefore no one has nothing to do. Like they're not a musical. No. Like we just like make the lead.

It's like the episode of Save by the Bell where all of a sudden Zach's like in a band. Yeah. And everyone has like their own number. like Raphael does like a Janet Jackson type of song. Splinter does like a ballad. Like it's like, I'm a skipping stone. And in it, like the music in it sounds like a sex scene from a Van Dam movie. Like it's like this weird sensual like kind of hard to like process synths like shit.

And like there's a whole part where like I just remember being weirded out as a kid when Splinter he's like doing like a whole like Tai Chi kind of like. number while this song's playing. And like as a kid, you're like, this is really uncomfortable to watch. I don't know what the fuck this guy's doing. It kind of reminded me of the landlord dance scene in Lubowski. Or it just sort of like, like, why?

Yeah, like, as a kid, you're like, this old weird teddy bears up there pretending to be splinter and doing the oddest dance to 80s sexy music. Yeah. There is a weird, like in the cartoon, though, there's a weird musical connection with it. Like, B-Bop, Rocksteady.

As far as like a guitar, like shredding on guitar. Yeah. And there's like, and I feel like there's some other kind of like like cast, like vague cast of character, weird game connections there for some reason. And I mean, one of the most iconic scenes that happens in either of the first two movies is of course the Vanilla Ice. You know, the journey that we watch Vanilla Ice go on. Because they are smart enough to allow the Iceman to go on a journey where at first he's scared of the Turtle. Right. He's doing great acting.

He's like holding his like dancers back. He's like, yo, who are these guys? Who are these guys? Guys? Like they seem weird. He's a little cautious at first. But then they start beating people up and he manages to improvise a whole verse. Hell yeah.

What he's seeing, including like character stuff, he probably would have had no way of knowing if I remember correctly. But he's just like, he's a genius, you know? He's an, I mean, he was an artist. first and foremost. And he keen insight into his situational, you know, surroundings and stuff. So I feel like they, I feel like they captured his essence perfectly in that movie.

Yeah. It was, my dad said he wasn't on the unit that filmed that, but he absolutely walked over there and watched them film it the day that Vanilla Ice was on set. Hearing Vanilla Ice talk about it was funny because he's like, it was crazy. They like wrote this thing up and then I go there.

And it's like, exactly the way they wrote it. He's like, are you mean a script? You've already supposedly made a film at this point. Yeah, yeah, cool as ice. Cool as ice. Is that not how things worked on that? Was that a fully improvised show?

I meant to look it up. There's a, there's a rap at the end of the first movie over the credits that sounds like digital underground or something. I don't know. It's like a turtle power, T-U-R-T-L-E power. yeah exactly do you remember that yeah i do i don't know who that is though it was yeah but i remember it was like because i remember in the soundtrack it was like spelled like t dot u dot r it was yeah it goes hard like it's so catchy and like still i mean vanilla ice is still performing with ninja turtles

on stage to this day uh not too long ago he performed at some i don't know some right wing convention and Raphael was on stage with him. So, Raff, like, unfortunately, he's leaning into the right wing. If I had to guess which one, if I had to guess which one, it would have been Raffed. I agree. I agree. That's funny. He's even, he knows the characters well enough to be like, look, this is the guy is going to

I could see like Michelangelo at like a Maha RFK event. Definitely Maha. He got so highy. He ends up there. You know what I mean? Yeah. Leonardo, kind of a libertary. I mean, I can see Donatello being a little anti-vax.

Like, he got so into science, he's like, gone. Yeah, yeah. He's like, he knows too much. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, like, so him and Michelangelo end up in Maha from the exact opposite end of the spectrum. Yeah. Yep. He's what, it's not that he doesn't believe in the vaccines.

He's just working on his own vaccines in the lab. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. Splinter's like, yeah. Splinter's like, I don't care. I came in the. right way. Others should

do. Maybe might be like one of my first or like earliest introductions into like probably I'm assuming like particularly with Splinter problematic Japanese accents and like action movies.

Yeah. Definitely like as I go like the Casey Jones character in the first movie I remember like there's a joke in it which I had forgotten about where he gets called claustrophobic and he's like, hey, you want me to punch you in the face?

I've never, never so much looked at another guy. And it's like, wow. That's weird. That's weird. They were trying to keep some like edginess there. That doesn't play well today.

No. Yeah. Still. Yeah. They're, like, I think, I think Jackie Chan and the latest Ninja Turtles is the first time that the

handling of pressure has not been wildly problematic. Yeah. Like the voicing of Shredder. It's funny too, because like as a Japanese kid, I was like, shit, bro. Okay. We're on our way. Like this, it felt to me like the most California shit. I'm like, this dude's a fucking surfer.

Right. It's like old Japanese rat is my grandma. This is fucking sick. This is my entire fucking life right there. And I remember like bossing up on kids because they weren't Japanese. Yeah. I'm like, you don't fucking know about ninjas and shit, bro. This is white.

This is not your culture, bro. My culture is not your costume Rottley. Now let me... Do you know if your mom ever reviewed the Ninja Turtles movies? She did, I remember because she... Like, I remember getting like

free merch from the press junket she went to. Like I had like this fucking t-shirt that was like an adult large when I was in kindergarten that I just wear to bed all the time. But she was just like... My mom was like, this shit is stupid. She's like...

To get you that t-shirt, she gave it four stars. She was like, yeah, no, it's great. She was like, yeah,

yeah, oh my God. I'm like, I, I teared up watching it as a Japanese person. People treated the movies and like everything about it,

like, like kangaroo Jack when it came out. Like people were like, Jesus, look at this dumb shit that's number one at the box office.

We're fucked. Yep. And look what that generation grew up to be, assholes. Yeah. podcasters. Mm-hmm.

I will say they have a complicated relationship to pizza on the one hand. Like, pizza was obviously popular, but, like, I still, like, think about the movie E.T. When they order pizza, and it's, like, such a novelty to order pizza that they don't even know how it works. And he's, like, sends the kid out to the curb to buy a pizza. And he's like, get me one with extra pepperonies. and none of the little fishies on it. And it's like, that's not how, you know, ask for the toppings at the curb when the car pulls up,

you fucking idiot. But like, yeah, he doesn't have a toolbox of toppings to like, fix your pizza right there. Right. But like it was like, that's how new pizza was. And like, so I do wonder like how much Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, like, you know, they just constant, like their version of pizza with the non-Newtonian fluid cheese, like sliding off of the thing, like, looked so good to me,

to my, like, child brain. They nailed that shit in the first movie. When they first sit down, that pizza that Michelangelo orders, they got the, it is so gooey and sliding, they nailed it. Second movie, they open with a montage of New Yorkers eating pizza. Yeah. That shit looks gross. Like, the pizza that they're eating, like, it's not.

And I remember noticing that. because they nailed it so much in the first one. I was like, that cheese is not, that cheese isn't even fucking gooey. Like, what are they doing? I will also say the scratch and sniff, Ninja Turtles, pizza stickers,

do you guys remember that? Yeah, yeah. Do you remember what they smelled like? Like, I remember, I feel like the pizza one kind of just smelled like oregano or something. It wasn't, yeah,

probably it smelled like garbage season or something. I was like pizza should sue these guys for this one. Yeah. This thing smells like shit. Also, what was the, what kind of national nightmare were we living under where it became a trope

to be stressed about getting anchovies delivered on your pizza? Has a pizza chain ever offered anchovies on a pizza in the first place? I remember the first time I saw it as an offering and it was like at a fancy place. Right. Yeah, this is like the concept of

getting fish on a pizza has, I've never been nervous that somebody ordered an anchovy pizza before. That's so funny. Yeah, because the turtles were constantly like, no anchovies. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, everything but anchovies. Um, yeah, but the idea that they would be, be like, no anchovies, any other fish with salmon, any other fish that we could put on your pizza for you. It's such a weird.

I feel like y'all could do an icons episode just on pizza delivery and the history of the concept and, you know. I mean, the, the, the, the, tie in with pizza was so crazy because Pizza Hut was like the main sponsor of that first tour. I remember like it was it was branded the like their whole thing was like bro, these motherfuckers are eating pizza. This tour brought to by Pizza Hut. The commercial was them at Pizza Hut. So they fucking, I mean, at least Pizza Hut knew. They're like, we have to use this to completely turbo charge this whole, you know, brand. That first movie, it's a Domino's guy that brings the pizza

to Michelangelo. Yeah, that's right. They got caught lacking there for sure. I feel like Pizza Hut was always better at like getting involved with shit like that. With the culture, yeah. And then Domino's had like slightly better pizza than Pizza Hut for a long time. But Pizza Hut was everywhere. You'd think about like there was the reading program. It was this thing.

It was the final four. There was always something like pizza. Like, you know, I think all of us had like every final four basketball you would get from Pizza Hut in the 90s. Like those are all my outdoor basketballs where Pizza Hut final four basketball. They're in favor of that and also nerd shit, like reading books. You know, they had all their bases covered. I do just want to run through and then we'll get out of here some of the attempts to cash in on the Ninja Turtles because there's some wild shit that I had kind of missed. But there were comic books called Cyber Frog and Salmonstein, which is like Salmon, mutant salmon characters.

there's adolescent radioactive black belt hamsters that's what that's real are these spin-offs or just like people are like yeah we're going to get it in here pre-teen dirty gene kung fu kangaroos it's like guys wait hold on no that pre-team that was an earnest attempt at a thing I don't know I mean maybe they were saying it was parody

but like it's fucking they were trying to to get in there. Like, and then on TV it was like street sharks, biker mice from Mars. Yeah, I remember them. Gen Z, big dick, naked mole rats. Who eat ass?

Um, um, uh, Samurai pizza cats was one. Samurai pizza, but cats. Extreme dinosaurs. Battle toads who are just kicking ketamine.

Um, um, that was cool too. It's, I mean, that, that was probably the closest, like,

that, I feel like that somebody replicated this. Yeah, like amphibious, like weird anthropomorphized fighter people. Yeah. Because that wasn't... Mainly, it was the video game, right? Yeah, because it was also bridging sort of this new era of cartoons.

Like, before that, it was you were watching like, He-Man and like Spider-Man, you know? And then you got this sort of thing that was, now that I'm thinking about, like, really the beginning of that sort of anime vibe with Toe doing those first five episodes, like leading into what we had later in the 90s, which is the more, you know,

anime-informed stuff or big action shit. But they came a long way, man. Like to all the other, you know, franchises that had this level of dominance that, like, there's so many movies I didn't even realize that, like, came out.

They've had like seven reboots. They make a new Ninja Turtles every, like, three to four years. There's the Michael Bay one that, uh, it was a fucking terrible idea when he, he was first, like,

they're going to be aliens, actually. and it was just awful all around. I feel like there's more Ninja Turtles movies than there is Spider-Man movies, which is weird. They really... The same amount. They really churn, man.

They, like, it was crazy. So I'm looking forward to. I took my kids to see the mutant mayhem and, like, they loved it. It was probably the most I've enjoyed a Ninja Turtle's movie since the first live action one that seen met as a kid. Great soundtrack. And so the second one is coming out. September 2027,

Mutant Mayhem 2, with a shredder story. I feel like that's going to be good. That's money in the bank. And then, 2028, like the year after, they're doing, like,

they're going to Sonicify the franchise. They've got, like, the guy who made the Sonic movies, you know, so they'll have CG animation Ninja Turtles with, like, it's got to be,

you know, either Ben Schwartz or, um, What's his name? James, not James Caldellville, but yeah. What's the guy

who's always getting cheated on in movies? Marsden. Oh, yeah, Marsden. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's great, like the same year, the year later,

they're like, all right, well, we're ready for a new one. They're just a money-making machine. I mean, like, like dollar for dollar,

it's bigger than poisedore. Yeah. You know what I mean? Bigger than the Avengers. Are you serious? Are you serious? Yeah. Yeah.

Like, 16 billion is what toy stories generate. Teenage Union Ninja Turtle is 17.4 billion. So many of the characters that they're competing with have been around for like decades and decades and decades and like had all this time to build up cachet. Like that, you know, Spider-Man's the only one that I think like completely outranks them. But like, yeah, Spider-Man has been around for a long time. Like the things that are above Ninja Turtles are like Looney Tunes, cars, Naruto, Transformers, Spider-Man. Batman, Hello Kitty,

just Barbie, Star Wars. I feel like they aren't brought up in that same conversation when you list those other franchises. No, no, no. It's like just quietly

just in the top 20 like the highest grossing franchises. And also you're keeping with the thing of like, you know, the cynical nature of the whole thing. So Mutant Mayhem came out and like that same year, Ninja Turtles,

merchandise sales went over a billion dollars again. So it's still, they're still just selling toys, you know? They're still just like, oh yeah, so what if this time we tried making a good one? They're like, oh,

that actually worked. We sold a billion dollars of toys. I mean, yeah, because they haven't, like, they haven't missed a year releasing toys from,

like, beginning in like, 1989 or 88. The only thing comparable has got to be like Transformers. Yeah. Transformers is similarly, created by a toy company.

But I think they outsell Transformer. In that first movie, just got to mention, like, it has to be one of Sam Rockwell's first performances. Sam Rockwell is in that movie with Elias Coteas. Corey Feldman does Donatello's voice. Yeah. There's some, like, just back to, like, that being an independent movie and all the people that they got to, like,

play these roles that would later go on to have incredible careers. And he's fully locked in as Sam Rockwell, like, right away. Like, you're like, oh, this, and that is his, that is still, he's still giving. I think he's even got that little, that little thin mustache that he, like, has in, like, so many other, so many other roles. Yeah. No, no. No, no.

That's fine. I didn't even know I had one. It's great, though. Like, I just think, Elis Codeus, you're in, you're in, uh, Ninja Turtles. And then also you're in one of the best sopranos episodes. ever and the strong silent type doing the intervention for Christopher and like it's funny that he was initially

guy with flowing locks that's how we first found out about him and now he's like kind of basically a bossy he like he's yeah he kind of him and April hit it off he's sweaty as fuck too I remember oh my god such a moist movie man and so sweaty the amount of glissoring they were spraying

on people yeah they had to like remove the squawsh sounds like every time the turtles just like sat down. Or moved them, just moved if they just even brought their fist to their shoulder like, sorry,

we got to mop that. Guys, the mic's picking up all the water. The boom mic operator is like, guys, this is not working at all. There's too much squelch in this one. It sounds like,

yeah. Squarch. Will, such a pleasure having you, as always. Thank you so much. Where can people find you, follow you,

uh, here, you see you, all that good stuff. Uh, you can find me on, uh, Blue Sky or Twitter at Wapel House or Christy Yamaguchi-Main or you could listen to

George Center on all your podcast platforms. And yeah, besides that, I'm just hanging out listening to Daily Zeitgeist every day. Oh, man. We're very lucky to have you. The great, great A.K.A. writer, one of your lesser credits, but still, you know, you're like the Chuck Laurie, you know. You got some, you're known for other things, but you can write a bop. As a young child, I dreamt one day of becoming the Chuck Lory of podcast, AKAs.

So to be here today, I want to thank my mom, my dad for working on Ninja Turtles and Stephen King. He also worked on the Super Mario Bros. movies. So if you ever do a Mario. A. Dennis Hopper. in Wilmington too. So I figure Mario's got to be an icon that comes up on the list at some point. Do I've been sick if

Dennis Hopper as Cupa was hitting the blue velvet mask too? You want to talk about a movie fueled by cocaine and just bizarre decisions. Holy shit. Miles where can people find you? Miles of Grey everywhere

and check out the new show Ain't It Footy talking about English soccer, European footy, but really with three very funny I do that with Jamel Johnson and Chris Martin. Who's the third funny person? I got your out. I have to find out.

I fucking roasted. Admit it. Admit that I just roasted you. All right. We're going to take a quick break. We'll come back with the... We'll come back with the... Fucking roasted again.

No book dump where we talked about stuff that I didn't have time to talk about in this conversation. Roasted again. His rap is coming out right now. Fuck! All right. Thank you to Willpool, aka Christyamaguchi, Maine, for guesting, for bringing his first-person experience, and for bringing himself. Always great to hang with him. Thanks to Miles. As always, thanks to Meredith Danko for the research on this one, and to Brian the editor for putting it all together. This is the notebook dump. The notebook mutant ninja dump. Teenage notebook ninja dump. Bulls. First of all, really enjoyed thinking about most iconic groups of four and all the different groups of four that like map to various personality types. I want to hear your picks. I want to hear your top four. Your Mount Rushmore of Mount Rushmore's. I will say we have three groups of four on our list of potential icons that we send out to guests. turtles, which we've now done.

And the other obvious one is the Beatles, which I feel like the Beatles is tough to compete with for iconic groups of four. If you fuck with Beatles music or pop music, because you've got the public-facing personalities of the four lads from Liverpool. But then you have the added component of like the songs that they wrote into the, you know, global songbook all have, like, distinct personalities.

So, you know, you may identify with Ringo's personality, but not necessarily fuck with his, you know, the songs written by Ringo, like Octopus's Garden. They're just such an iconic group of four. In fact, their forthcoming biopic is going to be four different movies about each one of them dropping on the same day. I think it's called. Yeah, the Beatles, a four-film cinematic event, which the two surviving Beatles are probably the least interesting of the four movies. So I wonder if that will be a hard pill for Ringo and Paul to Swallow.

If the Lennon and George biopics outperform them, it'll be very interesting. Like, four movies, one day, which one are most people going to see? generally probably a bad idea to do all four movies. That's a lot of movies to watch, but I do, I get why they're doing it. It's a pretty, it's a pretty rich text,

woven through with some of the most, you know, known and loved songs in existence. I think that is going to be hard for E, drama, turtle, and Vince to compete with when it comes to our list of the most iconic groups of four, I will say going into this episode, I probably would have had Beatles as our most iconic group before,

but this episode made me think that the turtles definitely have an edge. I think they execute the best on the, everyone has a different favorite, everyone, you know, has a different of the four personality types that they identify with, the four humors thing that we were talking about. I've been asking people ever since we recorded this episode, who is your favorite turtle and way more varied than I thought, way fewer Mikey and Donnies than I thought. You know, most groups of four, I think do inevitably have an answer. Nobody's picking.

Nobody's like, me and my group of friends are just like entourage. I'm drama. You know, the fucking idiot. But like I have so many different people identify with just different of the, you know, it's a real mixed bag for which turtle people identify. with. I asked my son's friend who his favorite Ninja Turtle was and he said, well first he was like

hey, Mr. O'Brien, why are you at our recess with a tape recorder and a card that says press stuck in the headband of your fedora? But then he eventually answered me and he said Raphael because specifically he's a rage monster

which he's a very mild-mannered kid too. So I love to that answer. I think it probably helps that there are just so many different interpretations of the teenage mutant ninja turtles out there. So, like, I thought it was Michelangelo and Donatello because I've, because of the, you know, parts of the Ninja Turtleverse that I've seen. But, you know, I pay attention to movies and there are turtle movies that did solid box office that I had no idea existed. And then there are the ones that I remembered that I didn't know.

I vaguely remember the Michael Bay one. He had like such a strong grasp of what made the turtles interesting to people that, uh, at the Nickelodeon up fronts in 2012, he announced it would be called just Ninja Turtles, the movie he was making because, uh, the turtles would not be mutants.

They would be aliens from another planet. Um, and they literally, they had to delay the movie an extra year to make it not that idea because everyone was like, boo, not that. But yeah, a lot of people went to see that version and didn't like it. And guess what? No harm, no foul.

They already had like three different versions of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles in some stage of development at that moment. Michelangelo was the most distinct to me, but I haven't seen 80% of the productions. It's like Shakespeare plays. I don't, you know, oh, you didn't like this interpretation of. of Hamlet, there's literally a new one going up three towns over next week, and it doesn't hurt Shakespeare's brand. Another thing this episode got me thinking about adult culture that needs kid cartoon adaptations. As mentioned, one of the main reasons we got the Ninja Turtles was because it was a time

when everyone was adapting adult shit like Robocop and Rambo into kid's stuff. but that wave went away and we've had years and years of adult culture that has not been properly mined. I guess some of it apparently has been. I just wasn't paying attention. Like I was going to pitch a kids Fast and the Furious, but there was a Netflix cartoon of that.

But the others that the early 90s probably would have jumped on. I think the hangover, probably like maybe a hangover baby, like some wacky version of the hangover where you have to solve mysteries of like messes made by, maybe parents, maybe it was made by their parents during nap time or something. I don't know. My main pitch that I do think is like a big missed opportunity is like modern NBA players. You've got LeBron, Steph, Wembe. I'm still deciding on my fourth, either Grumpy KD, who is like the tech guy,

because he's so deeply online or you've got Jha as like the arms specialist but all of those guys have like such distinct actual superpowers. It really feels like a missed opportunity to not have a Saturday morning cartoon where they basically play. You know, I mean,

they had this when I was a kid with like Michael Jordan and Wayne Gretzky and Bo Jackson, but I feel like just the NBA could have really done something with those guys. I do just want to give a quick shout out in the notebook dump to the naming of Bebop and Rocksteady. I don't know who came up with those names, but I have to say two of the great fictional names of all time up there with Tweedled D and Tweedledum. Something about naming two stupid characters really brings it out in people. But yeah, I mean, just generally, there was some great work being put in by the people adapting the, you know,

adult comic into a kid's cartoon. Mark one down for selling out, I guess. Doesn't always work out. But if you can time your sellout to coincide with a momentary dip in the yen that allows you to hire like a bunch of generational talents, I recommend selling out, I guess. Laird, who is one of the two original creators, he was the one who was like, all right, so here's what we wouldn't have done if we had it to do all over again. like we wouldn't have let them turn the turtles into pizza obsessed joke machines,

crang would have never existed. So he did get more involved in one of the kids' cartoons. So we did get to see what his version would have looked like. There was a 2003 Fox-owned four kids entertainment show that was kind of his baby. And the show did indeed have a darker tone. In fact, one of the episodes got pulled by the network. right before airing. In season four's,

insane in the membrane, the shredder progressively mutilates and dismemberes Baxter Stockman until he's just a brain and a single eyeball in a jar. So Baxter then puts his brain into a clone that decomposes throughout the episode, like the bad guy,

like Edgar in Men in Black, his bones and muscles are exposed, and his jaw fall. off. And the episode also reveals Stockman's background with an abusive mother via flashbacks. So, you know, maybe it's a good thing that we toned it down a little bit for that initial run. But yeah, I keep talking about this franchise getting lucky. I mean, that's basically how history works. Like how I think all icons to a certain extent. Like one side gets incredibly lucky. And that side is the one that remains and tells its own story and is iconic.

And we go back and say, man, those creators must have been geniuses. And I feel like in some cases like this one, it's like, yeah, they were very good at their job. And then once their creation was out in the world, it just went on a winning streak of running into dozens of other people who were also great at their job until they were a behemoth. and that's why we kind of know them today. One of my favorite random sequences I found in the research for this one that shows just how kind of random and unintentional all of this can be. So in the 70s, Star Wars goes to Mattel and is like, we want you to make Star Wars toys for us.

Please run our money printing factory for us. And Mattel is like, Barbies are for girls, not boys. and the Star Wars people are like, oh, no, these aren't, these aren't Barbies. So this is Han Solo. And Mattel is like, boys don't play with dolls. And then once they are proven catastrophically wrong,

they're like, boys like doll? How do we make doll for a boy? And so they go really outside of the box by creating a character called Key Man. man boy man guy um and one of that one of the designers of that toy is a genius named t mark taylor who designs the he man toys that i was raised on goes on to design uh the teenage mutant ninja turtles toys um but yeah i don't know it's just funny how much of my childhood

was determined by bumbling corporate executives occasionally guessing right after getting it wrong like multiple, multiple times. Anyways, that's going to do it for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. We are back next week to complete our animated character cycle. We had Garfield. We had Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. And next week, another group of animated characters. We're going group again.

They're even younger than the turtles, even newer, though they don't just stop it for. They are Legion. Next week, it's the Minions. with the great Jamie Loftus, and we'll be back tomorrow with new episodes of The Daily Zykeyes. I hope everyone's having a great long weekend. Bye. The Daily Zykeyes is executive produced by Catherine Law. Co-produced by Victor Wright. Co-written by J.M. McNabb.

And edited and engineered by Brian Jeffries. On the new podcast Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinero and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word Solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I survived nine months in captivity.

and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your for-you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture, with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions. Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to Pro Society on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Didn't catch the latest Roland Martin Unfiltered podcast? Here's what you missed. People wake up and go, oh, damn, wait a hold up. They change all of that, yes.

It's real. This is a wholesale attack. It is targeting black people in every federal agency. It's raw. White folks have never allowed that reckoning to last more than a decade. Catch Roland Martin's daily commentary on the Black Information Network. And download Roland Martin Unfiltered on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. Let's go!

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