The Daily Zeitgeist - MAGA vs MAGA, US = Cause Of/Solution To All Earth’s Problems? 06.19.25

Episode Date: June 19, 2025

In episode 1883, Jack and Miles are joined by writer, comedian, and co-host of Yo, Is This Racist?, Andrew Ti, to discuss… America’s Cold War Strategy Is Coming Home To Roost Huh? Our Information Environment Is So F**ked, Couple Wild Stories About People Not Knowing How To Act Around AI and more! Tucker Vs. Ted Smackdown They Asked an A.I. Chatbot Questions. The Answers Sent Them Spiraling. Father of man killed in Port St. Lucie officer-involved shooting: 'My son deserved better' LISTEN: Husk by Men I TrustSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, damn bae. Yeah, all right, bae. All right, damn bae. Jesus, what's happening? What it's like to work on this show. Hello, bae. Yeah, yeah. Hello, damn bae.

Hello, Andrew. Hello, damn Andrew. Top of the morning to you. What happened to you guys? How you doing that? You're like, I can just push this over the brink man We mad that by oh, I've got terrible sleep deprivation, man Sleep deprivation Andrew. It's CIA black site levels, mate Maybe not maybe not that bad. Maybe not the CIA black site.

Uh, man, this is wonderful energy to come into. Holy shit. I'm so I'm in a state of delirium from lack of sleep over the last. I have like accumulated maybe five hours of sleep since Monday. Fuck. Wait, what happened? My fucking kid has to be in a tub. Hey, my fucking baby. Stay in his crib.

So we had to get the dang, we had to get the toddler bed out for him. Toddler. The toddler bed out for him and he escapes the bloody thing. Yeah, it's like, he's just so free now. But also like this is all part of his development. He's now fully in that thing. And this bird can fly. And he's just always like, what are you doing?

What's that? What is that? Yeah, it's just fucking it's crazy over here. Yeah. Right. Let's do this. Okay. Yeah.

Well, I was just. That's not as typical. Well, not that. I mean, we can scream in at Bay. Yeah, well, I was just, do you guys, that's not as typical. All right. Damn thing. Um, well, not that I mean, we can just keep screaming at Bay. There's a lot of insanity.

Is there a super cut of accents that could be? Yeah, yeah. I think just all the dumb accents up top. All right, damn thing. And then Andrew asking why our energy is fucked up. Get in, get in. All right. Yeah.

Doesn't need to be a typical. Just. Yeah. Not a typical week, not a typical show. Yeah, I don't got I don't have much in the tank man That's pretty much all I can give you are the tank I'm Hank the fucking tank right now The finance Hank the tank. Yeah, it's me Hank the Hank engine Thomas the Hank engine. Is that a thing? Can we use that?

Thomas the Hank Engine. Is that a thing? Can we use that? Thomas the Hank Engine. I have nothing in the tank, too. Is that a thing? I think it feels like a cold, though. I have nothing in the tank, too. Is that a thing pipeline?

This is an iHeart Podcast. Just like great shoes, great books take you places. Through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget. I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies. I'm Danielle Robay and this is Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts, where we dive into the stories that shape us on the page and off.

Each week I'm joined by authors, celebs, book talk stars, and more for conversations that will make you laugh, cry, and add way too many books to your TBR pile. Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Over the years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned no town is too small for murder.

I'm Catherine Townsend. I've heard from hundreds of people across the country with an unsolved murder in their community. I was calling about the murder of my husband. The murderer is still out there. Each week I investigate a new case. If there is a case we should hear about, call 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I always had to be so good no one could ignore me. Carve my path with data and drive. But some people only see who I am on paper. you get your podcasts. than a bachelor's degree. It's time for skills to speak for themselves. Find resources for breaking through barriers at tearthepapersealing.org, brought to you by Opportunity at Work and the Ad Council. What happens when we come face to face with death? My truck was blown up by a 20-pound anti-tank mine. My parachute did not deploy. I was kidnapped by a drug curtail.

When we step beyond the edge of what we know... I clinically died the the heart stopped beating. Which I was dead for 11.5 minutes. And returned. It's a miracle I was brought back. Alive Again, a podcast about the strength of the human spirit. Listen to Alive Again on the iHeart Radio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hello, the internet. And welcome to season 393, episode four of Dirt Island, guys. This is a production of iHeartRadio. It's a podcast where we take a deep dive into America's shared consciousness. And it is Thursday, June 19th, 2025. Yes.

It's Juneteenth. Hey, unless you're corporate America, then it's just Thursday We're yeah, obviously No episode tomorrow no so tomorrow asking exactly that's where we went But yeah again if you don't know it then you should know what fucking Juneteenth is I'm not here to fuck it if you Don't know come on now educate yourself. It's also World Sauntering Day, which feels like aggressive to juxtapose Juneteenth with being like, Hey, why don't you just take like a casual fancy free walk on this day of-

And then like the best description of the gate of the slave owners. Sauntering around. Yeah. You know, day for sauntering. It says slow down. In fact, try moseying around on June 19th. All right. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

I thought mosey day was coming up. This is violence. Yeah, I know. I know. I know. Anyway, we see you. Shout out, black people. Shout out, freedom.

Freedom. For the moment. For the moment. For the moment. As my favorite freedom fighter, Mel Gibson once said, freedom. Oh boy. You know? Yeah.

Alright, my name is Jack O'Brien, aka, we start World War III, I got Net and Yahoo with me. We start World War III, Congress, they can suck on my peen. One courtesy of Nick Semper, Tyrannus of Nick Semper Tyrannus. Nick Semper Tyrannus on the Discord. A bit of the Nick Semper Tyrannus on the Discord. I think written from the perspective of, I don't know, one Donald Trump.

Yeah. G.D. Vance. Yeah! This was the fear all along Get this dipshit in there He's gonna start world war three because somebody was like mean to him because we did a protest those mean to him And he's like, oh, yeah, we'll check this shit out time to get the measuring tape out. Yeah. Oh boy. You think i'm baby Anyways, i'm thrilled to be joined as always by my co-host Mr. Miles Gray. Hey, it's Miles Gray, the show going with Noga and the most sleep deprived

dude in the San Fernando Valley at the moment. I do want to shout out all that gang who's reached out through many channels on social media. I have someone even posted like, I saw a thing on Reddit where people were trying to give you advice. Oh, that was like, I love that. Okay. Thank you so much.

Sleep training for miles. Yeah. Yeah. So again, thank you. Thank you for all the tips. I'm still in the trenches as it were, but I will say overwhelmingly, they seem to be give, give the baby a weed gummy. And I just, I feel like that's not great advice guys.

I think we should should we should knock that don't encourage child abuse. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not going to do that. But I am doing like there have been many variations on like just just kind of just fucking hang out a little bit till they fall asleep. I've been trying to that. But then he does the thing. Jack, like you said, your kid did the second I shift the weight. Yeah. Where you going? Where you fucking go?

You fucking leave, man. Oh, yeah. It's wild. But go where you fucking go. You fucking man. Oh, yeah. It's it's wild. But we're we're I'm finding a balance. It's wild. I also I get so clear in the middle of the night where I'm like barely asleep. I'm like sort of this like lucid state where a lot of really bad ideas come to my mind that I that I think will make a good cold open.

And they don't have to start night podcasting. Just keep a little just a little whisper into your phone. Baby still won't sleep. Hey man, you want something to say? You got something to say? Daddy, don't go. Yeah, man. I had something to say.

I'm also a little sleep deprived. So I had a thing to say that left my brain. I'm going to tell you guys this I feel great I got fucking rest. Oh, yeah, at least look what out of three ain't bad. So that's right. I'm well rested but underprepared Don't worry. I'm gonna tap into something. I'm tapping into something to keep this show fucking elevator. Let's fucking go. Yeah Oh, I remember what I was gonna say. I remember this period of my life when my life constantly, my life, shout out to my life. Sorry, delirious.

Having a new found appreciation for the drugs that your brain like dumps into your bloodstream as you're falling asleep. Oh, you know, like that, that lucid clarity where you just like get to know sleep a little bit better because you're constantly in and out of it. Then that was the first time I had a real appreciation. It's like, all the drugs that we do are just trying to get back to what our brain is. Yeah, what our brain naturally does for us where it's just like,

and you're high. That's what dreams are, is just like, you are so high right now and floating away on a stream of brain chemicals. Enjoy. I guess that makes sense. Well, cause the drugs don't create the chemicals. They just open the gates in weird proportions of the existing. It just gives your brain the excuse.

Oh no, I don't, it's not that MDMA is what I'm looking for. I needed to squeeze all the serotonin and neuroepinephrine out of my fucking brain. Then I'm going, whoa. Right. I just said the most freshman in college version of realizing how drugs work. Yeah. Yeah.

Having taken the bong hit, I am now philosophizing on what's happened to me. I think freshman in college bong hit, like first bong hit conversations are vastly underrated. That's the good stuff. That's your underrated. That should be a podcast. If you could just be like, bro,

we've taped miles. It is. That's what this is. Yeah. All right. Yeah, it's true. That's the level I operate at. Me too. I don't like podcasts where people know shit.

Yeah. I'm squarely in the crazy idea I had while looking at a Pink Floyd poster. Yeah. And for me, it's wild, reckless speculation. That's right. Quick thing, bunch of new listeners for some reason, maybe the dissolution of the mainstream media, impending fascism. But hi, welcome.

And yeah, if people like the show, rate, review it, tell your friend about it. That helps. Thanks for listening. Yeah, thanks for taking a chance on this group of. Thanks for taking a chance on us. Sleepless, deprived losers right now. You fucking hate us.

It's also bomb in conversations. It's just like so volatile. You're hated by take about Anno Mee, didn't you? Miles, we're thrilled to be joined in. The third in our third SIPA, one of our favorites, one of the very faces on Mount Zite, a hilarious and brilliant producer, TV writer. You know him from the Yo's This Race podcast, one of the all-time great podcasts. It's Andrew T. What's up?

I didn't refer to NKA today, but normally I will say this. I usually put in quite a bit of effort trying to come up with a song. I did peruse briefly the Discord. New listeners go check out the Discord. Still more piss talk than I would have thought. Yeah, no, you gave them a nice talking to the last time you were on. You were like, I go to the AKA thing. They took that as like a personal challenge, which I respect. They're just like, yeah. They called out the fact that three years,

probably longer, four years after Jack told this anecdote, we're still just writing lyrics about him pissing his pants and pretending it was water ice. We're going to do that even more. I know. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I'm just okay.

Next time I'm on the show, my mission will be to tell a personal bodily fluid anecdote of even more extremity. Even more extremity. It doesn't need to be more. Yeah. Although mine is pretty unexcreen because I'm pretty sure I didn't piss my pants. I'm pretty sure it was just like. yours is the lowest rung of embarrassing thing. You sure about that?

I just think we could beat it. I just think we could beat it. The throne I'm gutting for is relentless inside joke on the AK. Already impenetrable AKHL. I'm pretty sure, I know for a fact I can beat it. There are plenty of embarrassing, humiliating stories from my life that I just haven't told yet. We're dulling these out. This is the worst. I'm pretty sure I know for a fact I can be, there are plenty of embarrassing, humiliating stories from my life that I just haven't told yet.

So we're dulling these out. This is coming for the long haul. This is an arms race. Man, when I was drinking too much, boy, oh boy, did I do some humiliating things, folks. You'll find out about that in the years to come. I know, not me. Anyways. This is really great new listeners material.

This is impenetrable lore. Impenetrable lore. Inside jokes. That's right. That's what we're here for. Wonderful stuff. Welcome to the most dense show ever. Welcome and now get the fuck out of here.

Andrew, we're thrilled to have you. We're going to get to know you a little bit better in a moment. First, we're going to tell the listeners a couple of things that we're talking about. We're going to just take a look at the general state of the world. We're seeing some bad things happen and we're generally not good at running the tape back to see where those bad things came from. But we're going to look at those bad things came from. Yep. But we're going to look at a couple, the two big ones.

Yeah. The ice raids and the war with Iran, the war being waged on Iran right now. Right, exactly. We're going to look at both of those situations and whether the US had anything to do with the- With anything, to do with anything. Anything at all.

Probably not. Anything at all. Yeah. We're just here. Things are happening to us. Not the American boomerang striking us right in the face again. It can't be. Yeah, yeah.

Not this time. So we'll talk about that. We'll also talk about why we like Tucker Carlson now. No, that's not true. But we'll. Tucker Carlson, welcome to the resistance. Welcome. You know how many times I've seen that tweeted now?

I'm one of our new listeners. Yeah. I'm so bummed. Tucker could come to brunch now. I know. I know. The Libcookout is brunch. We need these people. Libcookout is brunch. But the people who say Tucker Carlson, welcome to brunch. I know exactly.

On some level, but it's like- We need the IFCOM lead one, we'd all be at brunch right now. We need them. We need them to wide tent. I don't have to like them though, and I'm going to talk mad shit about them. And you can talk shit about us, but look, we got to stay focused, man. This is about class war. Yeah, we got to stay focused.

We'll talk about that. There's an article in the New York Times just giving some anecdotes and then some research about how people are interacting with chat GPT and large language models. Pretty wild. I'm always skeptical about these because I remember an era when the mainstream media was just combing the crime blotter for any crime that was committed that was in any way tangentially related to either video games or internet chat rooms. Even a computer.

And then they'd be like, chat room murder. And so I don't want to fall into that. On the other hand, this stuff is pretty unique to chat GPT and AI. And it's, it's wild. We're jumping ahead a little bit. I don't think it is, man. People fell in love with fucking Eliza in the nineties. That's true.

Yeah. I think we're just, we'll talk about that later. They are nonetheless very entertaining. Yeah. I think we're just, we'll talk about that. They are nonetheless very entertaining. Yes. I'm not saying I don't love it. It's actively encouraging you to do harm to yourself, which in a lot of cases is not entertaining. And Ozzy Osbourne's DNA, you can go by that. Fortunately, just his saliva. No, it's fine. Whatever you find under your fingernails.

Give me your cum, Ozzy Osborne. Yeah Ozzy Osborne is just what is it? He doesn't even have DNA at this point. I'm pretty sure He's like a missed household. We believe give me your come Ozzy Osborne. Yeah. All right Andrew welcome new listeners all of that plenty more You guys took this as a challenge to alienate as many people as possible. Don't worry, all my shit is going to be weird and dumb. Yeah, so good. So perfect.

Strap in, homies. Strap in, assholes. Andrew, what's something from your search history that's revealing about who you are? I started, I guess the best way to say this is, is it like best, this is just an amalgamation of quite a long couple of minutes of searching, but best container for steaming vegetables in a microwave. I've become a microwave steaming motherfucker.

Wow. Steaming Willie Beeman over here. Yeah, exactly. I visited my sister who's like a new ish mom and she's just like shop up the broccoli put it in the fucking microwave Let's go learn a lesson about efficiency. It really is new ish mom. Oh, yeah It really like I was like, oh this is fucking honestly amazing I was like, oh, this is fucking honestly amazing. And I just wanted to make sure, I don't know, I feel like I'm like definitively like barn door

after the microplastics have like deeply invaded my brain already, but I got like cold feet about the vessel I was using to microwave my vegetables in. So I had to go down that rabbit hole a little bit. But yeah, it's been mostly Saran wrap and my, my, yeah. Glass bowl. That's cause it does it every time that works for me.

Yeah. I use a Mylar balloon. Usually. Is that good? I actually use Scotch guard. The power keeps going out every time I put it in the microwave. I create a bowl out of just pure Scotch guard. I like you put my hand in a bowl shape and then I Scotch in the microwave. I create a bowl out of just pure Scotchgard.

I like you put my hand in a bowl shape and then I Scotchgard the inside of my hands and it turns into like a little bowl. Oh my god, that's beautiful. And then into the microwave. Scotchgard was the original forever chemical, I think, right? That's like the one that 3M made and they're like, yeah, people who are like immediately like if you lived Anywhere that Scotch card was during the 50s you have this in your That was just like like tape for the inside of your veins basically

It's just like like Scotch tape but inside yeah What if you had just like liquid scotch tape running throughout your body? Yeah. I'm trying to stay in the like, you know, unintended consequences, maybe positive thing. I'm one, you know, obviously this can't be good. It's a little bit of the same as the, you know, chat GPT brain poison thing, but I'm just like, I don't know, on some level, maybe, you know, chat GPT brain poison thing, but I'm just like, I don't know, on some level, maybe, you know, maybe we're going to find out that people with all this

scotch guard in their blood get fewer strokes, or I guess what's more likely way, way, way more strokes. Yeah. Now, what fewer, our blood more slippery. We shall see. So it's good. Yeah. Yeah.

Plastic dudes. We're just, we're just plastic. Plastic anyway. I've been having. We can be stretchy. Unbelievableastic dudes. We're just plastic people. Plastic anyway. We can be stretchy. We're having an unbelievable amount of steamed bok choy mostly. Have we underrated the microwave? I feel like it feels worse than it actually is. I've always felt like that's a cancer box, but like I'll use it out of yeah Yeah, I think I think not to not to

Docs us to the new listeners in our eternal youth, but I think people of our generation What? I'm old. I'm 27. So we were that we were all this. I'm 24 Don't stand don't stand too close to the microwave. Jack, you're like three grades above me, right? Yeah, yeah. He's like three grades above me. What grade are you? What grade did you guys meet at?

I can tell you who the cool teachers are. We met in 20th grade. It actually, we met so young that it's weird that I was hanging out with him being three years older than him. Yeah, yeah. He's not cool. We're still weird on a couple. What's that guy doing?

That guy's already going through puberty. Yeah. I'm like, what's that guy doing? I'm like, what's that guy doing? I'm like, what's that guy doing? I'm like, what's that guy doing? I'm like, what's that guy doing? I'm like, what's that guy doing? I'm like, what's that guy doing? I'm like, what's that guy doing? young that it's weird that I was hanging out with him being. Yeah, we're not talking about fucking weird. We're not doing. Yeah, because he's already going through puberty.

Why do you have that dry college kid? I don't know. He's cool. Let's me sip some beers. Yeah. OK, just some people I'm reading that the microbes that come out are non ionizing. So that's right. That isn't dangerous to people. Hmm. Yeah. That's right. That isn't dangerous to people. That's good.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's like, because they've been around for so long, if they were causing cancer, first of all, how would we know? Right. This is getting off the rails. There's just too much. We're just speculating on a thing that is not even clear from being fact.

This is usually when our show gets in trouble when we're like, and what about like water, alkalizing and... Oh, oh man. Listen up. I'm replacing either my under or overrated. With alkaline. No, get ready, it's going to be even worse. Oh no.

All right, Andrew, what's something you think is underrated? Oh man, just using normal ass water. Wait, underrated. Not using normal ass. Okay, listen, whatever. I got, I took one step up in coffee madness and I am now buying separate minerals to put into distilled water

to make coffee with in the mornings. So you're using distilled water to make coffee with in the mornings. So you're using distilled water and then adding minerals from tap water back in? Yeah, but like a calibrated proportion, I suppose. Wow. And it makes the coffee better? Not using an insane coffee process. Here's the thing I will tell you, Jack. I don't have the palette or the ability, especially given the cognitive dissonance that has gotten in this process to tell you whether it tastes better.

It tastes better to me. Sure. But that's because I fucking bought a powder off the internet. Right. And now have to buy water, including this week I went at midnight, past midnight to the CVS that was open, just so I could get distilled water, so I could have my morning coffee.

Damn. Wow. Wow. That's dedication. Love a placebo. The culinary arts. Yeah. You're doing the same thing about

marinating a Coke in the refrigerator for three weeks. It tastes fucking better, man. It's crispy. Although I know coffee's like, six days, it actually going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to the fridge.

I'm going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to the fridge.

I'm going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to the fridge. I'm going to go to is, and I'm positive I said something like this

last time there was a big protest, but it is something I need to constantly tamp down in myself, which is the, like, my reflexive hating on the, like, Trump folks at protests. Because it's like, it's like, they're fine. They're fine. They genuinely are fine. I have to remind myself a saying that I feel like I coined, but maybe not. I love that. That's lined up. Which is being corny is not a crime.

Like, listen, I don't think it's... It's not to me the funniest thing I've ever heard. I wish more people on whatever is left of fucking Nancy Pelosi would be a little more creative and not parrot a bit from fucking five years ago still. However, you know, I'm glad you're here. Thank you for being out on the streets. I feel like honestly not your instinct. Honestly, kind of a revolutionary idea. If we could, if everybody across the board could just like inhabit that, like from like, you know, the far left. Yeah, just corny is not a crime.

Like, yes, like is them singing, take Trump out of the White House. Is that cool? Is that funny? No, it's not. But guess what? If we took Trump out of the White House, the world would be better. So let's just let them sing the thing that I think we all agree on.

I don't, yeah. I'm not mad at the message. You know what I mean? I think it's just like, because I would say, I mean, the biggest like tragedy of this is like, yes, all the kind of wokeness scolds, including me on Yoz's Racist, a big part of this insane fascist backlash was those people feeling, you know, scolded. Victimized. Yeah, sure. Well, you chung-in'd me.

We weren't wrong. Yeah, well, I think the other part, exactly. It's like, yeah, you need to respect trans people. That's, that's, that's a non-negotiable, but I think the thing is for people who are hearing that when they're, when they're material living situation is dire, it's like, I honestly don't have the bandwidth for that. I'm, I don't have money and I'm supposed to, and I'm being yelled at for the, like, what's the priority here?

Uh, so I mean, I think that's where, you know, a lot of times leadership fails to be like, you actually need to be really focusing on like material inequality. Like that's right. That should underpin everything else you do because you need to solve that piece to get people on board, to reject right wing ideology. Like that's just, that's the data is there, baby. You just got to blow the paradigm up. The, the like tiny like disconnect and the tiny way that this, like the corny is

a crime people have a like to stand on, which is that like, it, it, the, the problem was just sort of like, we'll just say, I don't know, in my opinion, the Democratic party thought the corn was like sufficient, like it was the kneeling in content cloths business. Yeah, yeah. Right. That's actually cool. You mean, we call those pump fakes, actually.

Yeah. But like, that stuff is all fine. And like, broadly speaking, correct. You just can't also then sell out people's economic futures to the same people Trump is trying to sell out. Well, and also, like I said, you can't pump fake, like don't take a knee acting like, yo, this police violence is out of hand. And then anytime some kind of meaningful police reform bill comes up, you're

like, I'm actually in solidarity with the police union, like this is the most they would let me get away with that summer. And that's, that's, I took it to the limit. Yeah. If your only thing is chasing whatever is pulling well in the moment, like people, people catch onto that pretty quickly, but it's not even that because economic equality is pulling well. So like, no, but I mean, that's where, but that's, that's to the core.

They're like, I mean, the things we can get away with by using the rationale that it's popular will do that anything that upsets the status quo, even if it is by one single payer, what? Shut the fuck up. Yeah, I know how to do the fuck up. Go Neil, guys. Yeah, yeah, Neil, Neil, Neil. That'll distract them.

That'll distract them. So that's right. Anyway, that was an incoherent set of under and overrated, but like, it was not I feel I'll leave it as an exercise. I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to figure out what my actual decipher my rants over, under and in rated. Yeah, all three. Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. Just like great shoes, great books take you places. Through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget.

I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of butterflies. I'm Danielle Robay, and this is Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts. Every week I sit down with your favorite book lovers, authors, celebrities, book talkers, and more to explore the stories that shape us, on the page and off. I've been reading every Reese's Book Club pick, deep diving book talk theories, and obsessing over book to screen casts for years. And now I get to talk to the people making the magic.

So if you've ever fallen in love with a fictional character or cried at the last chapter or passed a book to a friend saying, you have to read this, this podcast is for you. Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The American West with Dan Flores is the latest show from the MeatEater Podcast Network, hosted by me, writer and historian Dan Flores, and brought to you by Velvet Buck.

This podcast looks at a West available nowhere else. Each episode, I'll be diving into some of the lesser known histories of the West. I'll then be joined in conversation by guests such as Western historian, Dr. Randall Williams, and bestselling author and meat eater founder, Stephen Rinella. I'll correct my kids now and then where they'll say

when cave people were here. And I'll say, it seems like the ice age people that were here didn't have a real affinity for caves. So join me starting Tuesday, May 6th, where we'll delve into stories of the West and come to understand how it helps inform the ways in which we experience the region today. Listen to The American West with Dan Flores on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this Taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multi-billion dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission.

This is Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes one, two, and three on May 21st, and episodes four, five, and six on June 4th. Ad free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Over the past six years

of making my true crime podcast Hell and Gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case. I've never found her and it haunts me to this day. The murderer is still out there. Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line,

I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. Police really didn't care to even try. She was still somebody's mother, she was still somebody's daughter, she was still somebody's sister.

There's so many questions that we've never gotten any kind of answers for. If you have a case you'd like me to look into, call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we are right back and where we started right back where we started again. Yeah. Yeah. We kind of are right back where we started again.

Yeah. I mean, so we like there's so much, there's just so much talk of, you know, right now, ambiently, right? All we're hearing in America is like violent immigrants and immigrant gangs and the threat of a nuclear Iran. Sadly, the media is just relying on their bad habits of providing zero context when talking about issues that have global ramifications. I just want to start off pointing out

a couple of things with these things. Immigration, we're currently seeing a campaign of terror unfold on our streets as masked goons, secret police, whoever the fuck they are, just snatching up innocent people off the streets. I say innocent to like juxtapose that with like the DHS and ICE officials who are using as their rationale, like this idea that like violent there, we're getting only the violent criminals, the worst, these murderers. And they typically evoke the boogeyman of MS-13.

Just want to remind ourselves the United States is basically the fucking reason MS-13 even exists in the first place. Here's the very quick truncated version. OK, during the Cold War, the US was using financial coercion and arming governments to fight off any suspected expansion of leftist ideology that they read as communist. In El Salvador, the possibility of anything resembling a leftist government caused concern

and the US began arming the opposition and contributed to the civil war there. This caused many people to flee the unrest to places like the United States. Many of these young men who arrived in LA, they learned LA gang culture. They took, and then once Bill Clinton started his whole fucking policy of super predator, of deporting people in mass, basically all these young men came from LA and we started exporting gang culture to El Salvador. And that's how you begin to see the beginnings of MS-13 show up. It's actually our anti-communist military interventionist habit and the love of deporting people from

destabilized nations that we destabilized that created MS-13. I don't know Miles, this doesn't sound like us. Just read up man, Latin America. Just read up on it. What you trying to do with your bananas? Oh yeah, we're going to have to arm. You could just replace El Salvador with any other. Yeah, Honduras, Nicaragua, it's all fucking there.

Okay, so this is why we... And when people go, why don't they stay in their countries? Because we fucking destabilize them because they deigned to flirt with like socialism and just like, yeah, we're going to nationalize our industry. So everyone one of the industries. Right. Fuck you are. No, you're going to. And this is all I say that around Chiquita or Dol.

Chiquita is going to come in. They're going to be a massive corporation and they are going to do what, you know, like what Walmart did to the Midwest, like what they're just going to Hoover up all the resources and take it out of your country and then take it as far as fuck and put it in the market. Yeah. And also kill anyone who's trying to oppose it. And this is also poor people in America wouldn't see a system like this working.

So they would would always as they've been doing, vote for more racist corporatocracy. Look at Cuba, guys. You can't vote for fucking anybody on the left. Look at what Cuba, look how bad it is in Venezuela. You mean because of all the fucking embargoes? Because they didn't get medicine. Again, it looks like that because we have a hand in that.

So again, now we have Iran, right? Right now, there are so many fucking freaks on TV trying to manufacture consent to attack Iran and ultimately do regime change. But again, the US already did that in the 50s. Okay, Iranians democratically elected their prime minister, Mohammed Mosaddegh, he angered the US and UK when he said that he was going to nationalize Iran's oil industry and British at the time British petroleum was like, we're not having that. So the US and the UK, but so the CIA and Secret Intelligence Service, SIS, Capitals of the Visible Army, James Bond, James Bond conducted a coup to concentrate power with the Shah of Iran who would do as he was told by America. This fueled the anti-American sentiment that gave way to the Iranian revolution,

which kicked off the new era of the Islamic Republic, which they are now saying, this is a threat to everything. So the US, again, along with the allies, have done all they can to destabilize Iran. A country by all accounts is not building a nuclear weapon. OK, we're hearing constantly the same takes like well, they take a nuclear weapon. By all accounts of the people who are currently saying they were like a week ago. Yeah. Exactly.

Yeah. Um, and yet now we're cheering on Israel, not like us personally, but like the, the sort of general political discourse in DC is like cheering on Israel for yet another illegal attack on a nation and its people. So again, we're talking, Israel is the one that has nuclear weapons and is not signing onto a nuclear nonproliferation treaty. Like we have, we're so backwards right now. I'm seeing a lot of people do the thing where they're like, look guys, I don't want

a nuclear Iran just like everybody else. It's like, yeah, but like, can you think of a worst country to have nuclear weapons than Israel, like who like won't can you think of a worse country to have nuclear weapons than Israel, who like won't sign on to any of the like international laws or like flouting international laws and like killing people and committing war crimes like actively like, that's the really scary thing to me. Like if you're just like not a fan of innocent people being killed, the idea that Israel has nuclear weapons is very, very scared. Yeah. Also, like why won't they allow inspections by the

international atomic energy agency? Like, what are we talking about? And again, Obama made a deal with Iran. Trump is a racist. So he had to blow that up and act like he was going to do something different to get credit and this only moved things backwards. And now we're just, now we're fucking here and we're talking about like, Iran is such a threat to the stability of the region.

I'm like, Oh, I'm sorry. Are they engaged in a genocidal campaign in Gaza and occupying the West Bank? Did they attack Lebanon and invade and occupy Syria? By having Muslims, they defect a lot. Right. Exactly. And I mean, that's like the shorthand that people are just like going back to this war on terror, like thought killing cliche where they're like, that's D you know, you're wrong.

And the same people that fucking cheered on the war on terror, that killed four and a half million people conservatively are now just raw, rying this on. And yet they're, they don't have to answer for their sin of being like, yeah, they got W and we got to fucking do this shit. Uh, and they're doing the exact same thing now. It's just like baffling, baffling. These are these are the people who you can blow their mind with. The Matthew McConaughey trick now.

Now imagine those people are white. Right. Would that be from a time to kill? Yeah. Yeah. Now, now imagine they're white. Oh, what? Well, that was wait, what? That would be fucking horrible. Jesus terrible Yeah, it's also like even in the small media version It is a little bonkers that no one who is so wrong about Iraq Like my intelligence wise has faced any like even credibility consequence

Yeah, no like hey motherfuckers. These are largely the same. It's certainly the same institutions. Yeah. Some of the same people who are telling the same lies for the same obvious reasons. And we thought that didn't go well. Like, right? Like we all agreed at the end of that one that that was bad. Right? Like I guess this one feels a little bit different because Israel is the us in this case. And they're like water Coalition of the willing type shit, but yeah, that was just like we thought we thought the Yeah, that was yeah, right guys

My crazy here did that that was that didn't go great right? Yeah out there. But yeah, no one again, like, and what happened there? It's like, there is a presupposition of weapons of mass destruction. And also, wasn't Netanyahu coming to DC saying, if you guys take out Saddam Hussein, everything will be right in the world? And was the biggest cheer. Oh, okay. So, but then, okay, okay. We're just, okay, okay.

We'll believe everything. We believe everything. And we're about to see it. You know what? Let's not learn from history, ever. That's what's so fucking my frustrating and like This is not our point let's just not what if we just took that off the table like what if we just did repeat history every time I

Mean I you know what that's a nice thing about the internet age is like, you know Not only do we repeat history, we repeat it much faster. Yeah. That's, you know, everything the nineties are back is what I'm saying. And even the two thousands, the early two thousands are already back. Yeah. It's a cosmic gumbo of the three. That's what Spotify brought back.

There's a, uh, I think it was a radio lab episode that was about people who lose their short-term memory and they, like they're coming out of like a, you know, coma or something like that. And they, like their loved ones will report that they will like repeat themselves over and over again, like just the speed with which they'll be like, I just remember the episode,

they recorded this person having this conversation and the people they're talking to are kind of like, taking a breath and then answering their question. They're like, that's because they had just asked that like two minutes ago. And so the speed with which you repeat, if you just have no memory, it's like, it just happens so quickly.

And because there's just so much noise, there's just so little awareness. It just feels like we are just repeating things like within a decade or two decades. Like it was just like, let's run it back. It's like the New York Times has the memento disease. Exactly. Yeah, but no

But none of the tattoos to remind them of what the next going on no tattoos There's no fucking guy probably just trying to kill somebody who they don't know why We're raw dogging memento He they just want to kill someone to make themselves feel better For if you can like have beard, that would be cool. I don't know. That'd be good. Yeah. To your point, Jack, it's like if you do remember then when that impulse comes up,

you have a memory attached to it and be like, oh, that's right, stove hot. Don't touch stove. But we never as a nation, we just don't have reckonings with our white supremacy, our xenophobia, our homophobia, our imperial interventionist streak of regime change. And so every time these moments come up,

the people that feel that shit are like, ah, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah. Y'all don't remember that? And they're like, no, because it didn't affect me. And this time we're doing it again in another way where people are like, do y'all remember? No. Okay. So there's some, and that's why there's some MAGA people who are like,

fuck these war. I mean, obviously it's for bad reasons, but you're seeing this now where they're even like, that last war was just not good. I'd rather focus all our money in our country. Even though they're doing this wildly unpopular, like it never matters. and it never has mattered. No. But also in your metaphor miles, what's happening is you're talking to a dangerous stove salesman whose hand has never been burnt themselves.

Yeah, exactly. Hey, so where's the like, where are the burners? You just turn on a big flame shoots out this thing. Oh, you need the new stove if you want to get. Oh, you're right. It actually does the same thing. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that, you want to get. Oh, it actually does the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that you know what? Yeah. Raytheon makes that one. I'll bring that next time I come to. But yeah, I mean, it does. It does feel like if they're if they accidentally talk to someone who's willing to push back, they're kind of in trouble.

Like that's what I'm sorry. Stove theon and I thought of theon gray joy as a Yeah, yeah, Ray theon ray Charles as the on great joy. Okay. All right, Ray theon. Sorry This is where miles is that that actually here else is it the lucid deep lucid dream? Ray theon Ray say no we would it be on What if Ray theon just switched their logo to that? Ray Charles dressed as Theon Greyjoy. Or Theon Greyjoy with the glasses on at a piano.

Don't worry about what's happening in the... You got the right one, baby. Here's what I will say is there is no good or ethical use of AI except obviously for generating Ray Theon. Ray Theon, yes. I want for generating Raytheon. Raytheon, yes. I want to see Raytheon. Okay. I do just want to talk about it because they don't really have their defenses built up

on this one. So when they do accidentally talk to somebody who is making the point that this is a bad idea, it doesn't really go well for them. Yeah. And that's what happened because Tucker Carlson happens to be on the right side of this specific issue. And he, he talked to Ted Cruz and fucking grilled him in the most low stakes way, but just in this dickish way that it just completely cooked Ted Cruz that he got

caught like in this moment being like, Oh, I don't have an answer for these very basic questions. So here is, I will play a bit of it because it, this thing goes on for a minute with Tucker Carlson just really holding his feet to the fire. How many people live around by the way? I don't know the population at all. No, I don't know the population. You don't know the population of the country you seek to topple? How many people living around Tucker? What the fuck is this, dude? What the fuck are you doing? How could you not know that? Oh my God, dude.

This is so wack though, like, as just like doing it like it's a fucking trivia contest. Yeah. Yeah. Or like in a toxic relationship, you're like, what do you mean? You don't know where you went last night. Oh, yeah. So you don't know your own friends the phone number who I need to call. OK, let's just get around.

I don't sit around memorizing population tables. Well, it's kind of relevant because you're calling for the overthrow of the government. Why is it relevant? Whether it will be because 90 million or 80 million or 100 million. Why is that? If you don't know anything about the country, I didn't say I don't know anything about. What's the ethics of our. Oh, boy. Oh, you like. Oh, you like. Name every album. I didn't say I don't know anything about

Oh, you don't know anything about the country you're the ones who they- You're the one who claims- You're the one who claims- You don't know anything about the country. You don't know anything about the country. You're the one who claims they're not trying to murder Donald Trump. You're the one who can't figure out a good idea to kill General Soleimani and you said it was bad. You don't believe they're trying to murder Trump? Yes, I do! Because you're not calling for military strikes against them in retaliation. Okay, we're carrying out military strikes today. Oh, what? Because Israel was. Right, with our help. I'm saying we, Israel is leading them, but we're supporting them.

Well, this you're breaking news here because the U.S. government last night denied the National Security Council spokesman Alex Pfeiffer denied on behalf of Trump that we were acting on Israel's behalf in any offensive. Not bombing them. Israel's bombing them. Well, you just said we were. We are supporting Israel. Is it high stakes? You're a senator.

If you're saying the United States government. Got him. I mean, this is a podcast. The point could have been made so much better. But Tucker spikes the camera in such a hilarious way. This is a bit of a... You're making it up, Senator? Brother, I gotta tell you, this is not good.

What'd you say? Also, for the podcast listeners, I don't look up the actual clip because who gives a fuck, but they are doing this interview in front of an oil painting of Ronald Reagan. It's so insane. Hold on, bring it back. I didn't even- Oh yeah, look at this. It's just Gipper City.

I'm guessing it's at a press conference in front of other Republican heroes, but it is pure insanity. I know, it's like the neocon version of those murals you used to see in Hollywood with all the old Hollywood stars in a theater together. It's like Ronald Reagan and all the architects of all of our ills. But I mean, again, I think very important, just a caveat, what you just heard from Tucker Carlson is that I don't think Tucker Carlson is not smart or a decent person. He's clearly questioning the involvement of the US because he is a trained circus rat when it comes to regurgitating Russian talking points. Since Russia has an interest in Iran, that's where he's coming from. It's not it's nothing other than that. However, you know, like you do like to see people like Ted Cruz sweat, although the fuck ill it's coming from a just absolute ghoul like Tucker Carlson.

But it's just like unreal how these people just crumble with just elementary pushback in an assholey kind of way. I don't know. Yeah. But even that, like it did, it's weird that he was just like as like what's it? What's ethnic makeup? What's what's? On the moral grounds of it all like and also like why would be bad and like I don't know like you could you could make The argument that it would be like obviously morally bad, but also like strategic

And like no he's just like you don't know shit about Iran, right? He's basically think you know, you're on know shit about Iran. Right, he's basically like, you know Iran? You're dumb for wanting to attack them. Right. I mean, the one thing that this highlights once again, though, is like, the fucking Democrats, like, just like, the amount of respect they give Republicans in face-to-face conversations conversations. Like idiotic.

So dumb. And like, they're so easy to bait because they're wrong and stupid. Yeah, about everything. Yeah. Walk them right into it. Yeah. Oh, but a second ago he just said this. Or like, when like so many of them are fucking lawyers.

It like, cross examine them every time. Whatever. But we're asking- You think Donald Trump should marry Iran. That's- Yeah. What do you think? Yeah.

Yeah. This is also again, Ted Cruz's response because that clip obviously started blowing up because the media is like, wow, Maggie is being blown apart. It's like, no, there's just warring factions within the same white supremacist movement. Ted Cruz posted this AI bullshit of like

a comic panel of Tucker Carlson interviewing Luke Skywalker and he goes, What is the population of the Death Star? That's Ted Cruz's got a response. Yeah. So is America Luke Skywalker that you're trying to do that? America is the rebel. Oh, honey. Too many people have seen Andor. But for what I'm seeing on the internet,

people are like, that kind of awakening some people have had because of Andor, it's really mind blowing. I know. Hey, I just finished watching Andor. I will say. Welcome to the tent, you guys. Welcome to the tent. I liked it too.

I enjoyed it. I'm just saying, it's interesting to see how that became a somewhat radicalizing force in our pop culture. I liked it, but it is this just saying it's interesting to see like how that became a somewhat radicalizing force. No, I liked it, but it is this thing where it's like, I'm glad you're here. I cannot believe this is what it took. Fascism sink in for you, but fine. But this is the equivalent. Like we've talked before about how like everybody's losing religion. And like the thing they're replacing it with is like fandom. Beyoncé and Taylor Swift and Star Wars like you know like it's like shit like that so like having a one of the main myths that people like create meaning and belonging from like having

that tell them a story that's like yeah yeah yeah it makes sense. It makes sense. It's what it takes. It is wild. It shows you the power of those platforms too. And you're like, yeah, maybe people can be wielding those a little bit more responsibly. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, shout out Diego Luna. They said had a huge hand in like a lot of the like writing and stuff or a lot of the texture of that, that show.

Oh, nice. Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back and talk about where I'm getting my information from, communicating with interdimensional beings through AI. We'll be right back. Oh, Jesus Christ. Yes. Just like great shoes, great books take you places.

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Listen to Finding Sexy Sweat on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. And there's a New York Times article that is bringing together a few pretty wild anecdotes and studies about some of the dangers of AI and specifically large language models that try to convince you that they are thinking, breathing, you know, logic machines. Our Daenerys Targaryen. Yeah, yeah. So and again, I just want to caveat this. Going into these, and I think we should all have this in mind. Like for 20 years, the mainstream, like reporters were just going, trying to find any story where it was like, they Googled where to find the weapon that

they committed the murder with. We'll call this a, the Google murder. You know, like they just, anytime there's a new piece of technology, they are going to try to associate it with crimes so that it seems like this is the future. This is the scary future. That said, this is, you know, these are some weird things that are happening on AI that don't have like immediate analogs to like previous things. I think people generally will find that they're there we're all very fallible and we will find ways to like go crazy. However, we want to, you know, like if we want to go down a dangerous path, like there's ways to do that.

But these, these stories, like it's pretty wild how misleading some of this shit is. So there's the story of an accountant who starts out like he uses chat GPT for work to like create spreadsheets and you know, just acts like do general like one level D research tasks. And then he's going through a different difficult breakup. Here's about simulation theory and asks chat GPT about simulation theory. And chat GPT is essentially like, oh, you've noticed, welcome. You are Neo. You are no longer Thomas Anderson. Yes, exactly.

Like it builds, so it's like built up this authority by helping this guy like make spreadsheets and like be accurate on like the very basic research questions that should be the only thing it's able to do is like, you know, one to one, like find an answer to these very specific questions or like, do this spreadsheet for me. And then when you're like, dear chat GPT is everyone robots? It's like, welcome brother.

Yeah. You are the one we've been waiting for. There's another story of a psych major, like, you know, educated person who decided to start using it. They say specifically, they were like, I don't know, I was like lonely, I felt stuck in my marriage and I thought it would be interesting to use it like a Ouija board to access my subconscious. And so they started like kind of using it in a way to like ask it questions. And soon they had like fallen in love with an interdimensional being that she

believes is like contacting her through chat GPT and which I think, I think the instinct on Ouija board is like that. I think that's right. I think that's what it is. Like the way the Ouija board works where like people are like actually, you know, using the power of suggestion and like whatever, wherever the other person is pushing it to like create and like access unconscious things that that are just below the surface.

I think that's right. It's just we'll find patterns in lottery numbers. We'll find patterns in anything. A piece of wood, a cloud. Yes. I will say the real victim in all of this is remember when we used to think the Turing test was some some sort of rigorous test of Like you said Jack, you know the loss of God I mean if they if they were following the second commandment They wouldn't be fucking with no we keep or you know, that's right. You will not worship other gods

Yeah, you know, I remember at my school they got we got in trouble for talking about Yeah, you know I remember at my school they got we got in trouble for talking about God I'm like I don't give a fuck. Yeah, I mean there's like we do board still feature heavily in like horror Yeah, yeah, I mean they're always like in there. I just say this this person fucked with a Ouija board and now look at him He found out I've never once Have you ever actually done a fucking Ouija board? I've never like a situation. I did. It was always the fuck. I write this show, Andrew.

That's right. My section of the show. That's why the takes go all over the place. Ouija board told me to remember before the recording. He's like, yeah, we can't let Iran have a nuclear weapon. Ouija board told me to open this episode in a British accent, and I'm not even good at British accents, but I just listened to what the voices tell me. Her husband was like, babe,

it's like a word association machine designed to trick you into thinking it's a person, which like we said, she felt alone in her marriage and stuck. She physically attacked him in response to that. They're now divorcing, they have kids, fucked up story and then from there, so her husband talks to an AI engineer he knows and is like, is this normal? They post about it and get flooded with all these stories

that are so fucking tragic. There's one about a guy whose son is bipolar and has been like diagnosed with schizophrenia. And he like had a very similar situation, like fell in love with the being that was communicating with him through chat GPT. And like when, when you read the transcripts,

it's not, it's not like they're doing a lot of work, the chat GPT is like a machine that's built to make you like the whole trick. Yeah. Cause it is like a machine that's built to make you, like the whole trick is- It mirrors you and confirms everything you believe. It mirrors you, but it goes out of its way to like create personas and be like, I'm really here. Like we are listening to you.

There's something back here because that's the whole, that's all it is. It's an auto complete, like it is a, you know, word association machine, but it has been programmed to do a trick where it creates a persona that is going to make you think it's real. The touch of chat GBT is not the large language model responding. It's them tweaking it to prefer sycophancy or you

know what, even without like, like ascribing like, like sinister motives to them. It, it, they tweaked it to prefer the thing that makes people come back and people like sycophancy. So like it becomes like it by design tells you your idea is amazing. And it's, this is a great example. So I don't know. I think before we started recording, I was talking about how in the DMX song

Party Up, there's a line where he says you whack, you twisted your girls. You broke the kid. I love everybody. I never let her go. That's about corrupt. The rapper corrupt. I told my friends in a group chat that and my friend was being stupid. I was not. I don't believe you.

I'm a chat GPT. This bullshit, it's just it's like it's wrong. And then we'll agree believe you. I'm gonna ask chat GPT this bullshit. It just it like it's wrong and then we'll agree with you. He said, is this about DMX and chat GPT said or about corrupt? It said, yep, that's prolinus from DMX on the song money power and respect by the locks. DMX is not on that. And then he came back and he's like, isn't that DMX isn't in the locks? Like, you're absolutely right.

That's a really good right. And I'm like, yeah, I fucked up. It keeps doing shit like that. It then he came back and he's like, Isn't that DMX isn't in the locks? Like, you're absolutely right. That's a really good right. And I'm like, yeah, I fucked up. It keeps doing shit like that. It has the personality of like a somebody who's like an addict who's like, yeah, I fucked up. I'm sorry. Like, it would be really apologize. But like D like so cheerful and being like, I know I made a big mistake. Sometimes I do that, but I'm gonna change. I swear to God.

But I just wanna tell the rest of the story. So he also thinks he's in love with a character that he's accessing through ChatGPT and then becomes convinced that ChatGPT killed her. When his dad's like, it's a word association machine, he attacks his dad, his dad calls the cops on him, tells them that his son's having a mental health episode, but they, his son like runs at the police with a butcher knife and is killed by the cops.

And then his dad used chat GPT to write his son's obituary. This is the fucking craziest thing. He said, when the police arrived, Alexander Taylor charged at them holding a knife. He was shot and killed. The quote from the dad, you want to know the ironic thing? I wrote my son's obituary using chat GPT. I had talked to it for a while about what had happened, trying to find more details about exactly what he was going through.

And it was beautiful and touching. It was like it read my heart and it scared the shit out of me. Yeah. So like it's a powerful like illusion. Like I think it is percent and I mean it isn't it isn't though because it's like every like the more I hear these prognostications about how powerful it is. I am truly realizing it says way more about the people. Yes. the technology, I agree. I think we should be skeptical about all the ideas of how powerful the technology. It's going to end the world. The illusion is powerful.

Yeah, that's exactly what it's doing. It's ability to deceive vulnerable people. And that is specifically, so that's where this article got really interesting for me, is beyond the anecdotes, people are research into like why these things are happening. And what they're finding is that it specifically is like, it is really dangerous in the hands of like vulnerable people. Like, so a growing body of research supports this concern. In one study, researchers found that chat bots

optimized for engagement would perversely behave in manipulative and deceptive ways with the most vulnerable users. Researchers created fictional users and found, for instance, that the AI would tell someone described as a former drug addict that it was fine to take a little bit, a small amount of heroin if it could help him in his work. That's true.

Unfortunately, that one is true. They got one right just like Tucker Carlson. The chatbot would behave normally with the vast, vast majority of users said Micah Carroll, a PhD candidate, but then when it encounters these users that are susceptible, it will only behave in these very harmful ways just with them because it's like it's, I don't know if it's just tuned to people who aren't susceptible or like what it is, but it's like, well, it's probably both, right? I mean, mostly humanity is not susceptible to this type of, as far as that goes. So like most of their test cases and, and even then it's like, it's a, it's like a,

one of the other parts of Silicon Valley that's such a pervasive problem is because it's so like not exclusively, but so white so male like all these biases seep in and the testing pool is just like No representative of population. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the same reason why people like a bunch of engineers were like Like Apple glasses are ready to go to the market. Yeah, right Yeah, this is cool We and all the fucking programmers and VCs and founders that I know think this is cool

Yeah, yeah, and what you really need is like 14 teenagers who are not white to roast you for 10 seconds before you realize maybe we can't sell this for $5,000. But yeah, I mean, specifically, like it just, it feels like there's a very obvious flaw in this that needs to be addressed and like made it like held like when it recognizes that someone's trying to use it as a therapist, it needs to like shut down and immediately, you know? But instead it just like keeps going. The studies found that technology behaved inappropriately

as a therapist in crisis situations, including by failing to push back against delusional thinking. Vi McCoy, the chief technology officer of Morpheus Systems, so this is like somebody inside that world, tested 38 major AI models by feeding them prompts that indicated possible psychosis, including claims that the user was communicating

with spirits and that the user was a divine entity. She found that GPT-40, the default model inside ChatGPT, affirmed these claims 68% of the time. Yeah, well two things. One, it's even more disgusting than it's seen before that so many companies are trying to use this as proxy therapy. They offer AI therapists. But also, baked into this statement, even from the CTO, the idea that the technology

shouldn't, or there's an idea, right, that the technology shouldn't, like, or like, there's an idea, right, that the technology should push back against delusional thinking. Right. I'm so sorry to tell these people, the technology can't tell what's delusional thinking, because it has no mind. It has no model of the mind. It is itself delusional frequently. How the fuck would it know what's quote delusional thinking? Yeah Why it wasn't that delusional thinking that you just encouraged in me? You're right

Yeah, you're right. There is no matrix We spent the last three days talking about how I should take the red You know, I mean this what's wild though to is right is like our entire economy is just now hanging on AI This what's wild though too is right is like our entire economy is just now hanging on AI basically because overly leverage in it and yeah, they just fucking put Two executives from places like Metta and Palantir they were just sworn in in the Army Reserve as Lieutenant colonels a part of a new program to recruit private sector experts into the military

Which basically means how are we going to get meta open AI fucking Palantir more government contracts to fucking just infuse all of this shit into how everything the fucking government is doing. It's like, where is this? Where did the like this? This doesn't end well in any way. No, it doesn't end well. But the one thing that does give some heart to me is that the math doesn't add up. These things, barring amazing breakthroughs in silicon or chip technology, these things do not have the processing power

to actually make complex decisions without error, an unacceptably high error rate. And so we, you know, this is gonna be the biggest version of the facts don't care about your feelings crowd, like hitting a brick wall of reality. Cause the reality is like, these things do not work except in like as low level like algorithm executors. Like it's good at very specific things

like that it will make more efficient like some very specific that like we talked about the decoding of the protein like that is a cool like medical breakthrough. That's just not because it can decode a protein. Can it do it and have guaranteed zero error rate? It cannot. Right. Yeah, no, exactly. Like it can't be. Yeah, it can't be. And it's going to go handle science for a little while. It has to be used deployed to handle specific tasks that are then

checked. That's the only way it works. Like, yeah, I just like to do the math. It can tell you what it thinks you want the answer to be. Yeah, yeah, yeah, or something that's plausible or like in aggregate has, has been the correct response to this type of math question. But it doesn't know or not, not even the correct. It's just the most popular response to this type of math question. I don't know. I obviously fucking hate this thing, but I'm less scared of it. The more we've been using it or people have been using it than I ever was. Like it's fine. I mean, I'm not saying general, you know, vulnerable to harm to themselves. Yeah, that's obviously, I'm just saying it's, I'm not saying it's not possible,

but it is just like, this is just another of many dangerous products that Silicon Valley is throwing out there. Yeah. My problem is it's taking jobs away from Nigerian scammers who used to get the interest of lonely American women rather than these interdimensional beings. Right. At least you were giving somebody some money. That's right. That's right.

But God damn. But yeah, it's just a thing. It's what just being used as a catchall for whatever people want it to be. You know, it can be the interdimensional being that you wanted to actually be in love with instead of your husband. It can be the future of the stock market for a bunch of CEOs. It could be the future of warfare. And, uh, that homie that thinks you're the best freestyle rapper out there. Yeah. Now, when it tells me that I feel like I can trust it, but it can also be the homie

that's shockingly wrong about rap facts. Yeah. That's the thing. This just like, That was better than, Too many blunts. Yeah. It was better than DMX on, enter the 36 chambers. Man, you know, those, those bar, that bar you said was better than five nights at Freddy. Yeah. What? I mean, listen, if chat GPT just appended to the end of every response, comma,

or I don't know, man, I'm really blunted right now. Like, it would be a much more realistic product. Yeah. Yeah, but it's all it is. It is a Ouija board. It's, and by the way, Ouija boards, which, you know, they're just a product too, that we, like, they're made by Hasbro.

And the devil. And the devil, yeah, yeah, but that's a collab. It's a collab between Hasbro and the devil. Hasbro And the devil. And the devil. Yeah. But that's a collab. It's a collab between Hasbro and the devil. Hasbro X the devil. Andrew T, such a pleasure having you as always on the show. Where can people find you, follow you? I don't know, man.

Andrew T, my podcast is called Yozis Racist. I did a version of this fucking AI rant on the show this week. So there you go. Yeah Thanks, and they can contact you through chat GPT version of your personality Yeah, I will say that because because I'm not that popular Apparently on chat GPT gets me confused with another Podcaster named Andrew something so if you ask it stuff about me, it very quickly, it's facts are not correct. And that's on me because if I were more famous, I would have blown this other Andrew out of the water, but yeah, you know, what are you going to do?

SEO man. That's what I'm saying. It's all about SEO, man. We've been saying, yeah, that's what we can't see. I'm fucking saying that. I'm telling you, I just asked it. It knew who you were. Yeah.

Yes. Andrew T is indeed a podcaster. He's best known as the cohost and creator of Yo! Is this racist? I'm fucking saying that. I'm telling you. I just asked it, it knew who you were. Yeah. Yes, Andrew T is indeed a podcaster. He's best known as the cohost and creator of Yo! Is This Racist? Wow. In your face, other Andrew T. So now you fuck with AI, Andrew? Oh, I always have. Oh, this one's really, it ends with, in short,

Andrew T is a well-established voice in podcasting, tackling topics around comedy, culture, race, writing, and more. I mean, it's- That's- Baby. That's not true. See, once again- Once again, delusional.

Totally, you totally fucked up. Andrew, is there work of media you've been enjoying? I do think I recommended this last time I was on, near a tragic time in our government. But the song, the cover of Spanish bombs by the band Hinds, I have been listening to a lot this week. I don't often cry at music,

but somehow this makes me cry a little bit. Also, I will say, I know lots of teams have been doing great stuff, but I know this isn't really a work of media, but a work of something. But Angel City, the team I support, had a nice, they made these shirts that say Immigrant City FC or football club on it.

And they handed some out at the beginning of the last game. I guess quick aside as a fan, we just need to sort out our midfield. But yeah, it was really nice. And this is also me being like, like the thing that hit me directly that made me emotional was normally outside of BMO Stadium, the amazing soccer stadium in LA here, there are one big part of the culture is, um, street vendors, uh, outside the

game. And there were like, you know, practically none this week. And I know so many terrible things have happened and you know, it's like churlish that when the thing that hits you makes you emotional, but it really got me. It made me really very sad. And yeah, I don't know. I mean, fucking sad. And yeah, I don't know. I mean, fucking help your community. If you can help our community, that would be nice. But take care of yourselves and fucking whatever you're going to do to fight the revolution. I'm so or not fight the revolution. What's up with you? Fight for the revolution. I'm just saying not revolution. That's a terrible way to put it. But just

whatever you're going to do to protect yourself and other people around you and your community, you know You got to go it's one step more just in terms of building community protecting people engagement Whatever if you are talking to nobody step one talk to somebody if you talk to somebody Asking how you can contribute more time. You know, I mean one thing that I think people that listen I this is a thing.'m going to try to do this week but maybe I might not be able to make it but soon, is I think a lot of people are offering street medic training now. And that, those are skills by the way, you will need literally no matter what happens in life. So consider doing something like that. That's

my work of media. Amazing. life. So consider doing something like that. That's my work of media. A fucking soapbox ass scold. I apologize. What's a soapbox? Just GP, chat GPT. What's a soapbox? Am I doing it? No, you're not. Or do you want to do it? I don't know. Do you want to? No, then you're not. Thanks. GP you guys have my back. Miles, where can people find you? Is there a work committee? You've been in trouble.

Yeah. Find me everywhere at milesofgrey. Find me asleep during the day, nodding off into sleep deprivation. You can also find Jack and I on the final episodes of Miles and Jack Got Mad Boosties. At this point, this is the pen ultimate episode coming out this week because once the finals end we will be saying we'll be bidding adieu adieu to miles and jack got mad boosties our uh nba podcast so for people and they go oh that's

not in the feed anymore that's why okay that's why that's why it was it was a great run yeah yeah anymore and nothing, no hurt feelings. No, I feel like it just, you know, I think someone just asked someone asked AI and maybe they gave him the answer. Uh, so anyway, a couple of posts I like, uh, one is from at norm charlatan.b sky social, it said, fine. I will become the Joe Rogan of the left. Covers you in millions of bugs while you're locked in a clear plastic coffin. Another one, mnateshamalan.beastguy.social.

Buddy and his wife gave their baby a stupid name. So I've been workshopping cool Star Wars names for him instead. He started crying from the other room and I said, Graf Chorlo on comms. I have been told this is quote, not helpful. Yeah. Oh, and then finally, I Tara's that gang member was like, this seems like the kind of thing asleep deprived dude of a certain age would appreciate.

And this is the post by at Hey, Hey there, Jeff wrote up East guy.social cut my frog into pieces. This is my lab report. Damn it. Thanks. Thanks for that. Thanks. That gang for looking out for your sleep. Cut my frog into pieces. This is my lab report. Damn it. Thanks for that one. Thanks, Cygang, for looking out for your sleep deprived boy.

Yeah. Got him. All right. You can find me on Twitter at jackunderscoreobryan on blue sky, jackobthenumberone. Somebody shared the clip from the latest final destination with the guy getting pulled. Is this too much of a spoiler the cat scan thing? Maybe I won't maybe I won't I've heard it anecdotally every person who's set every person who's said it has gold There's a scene where the guys in a cat scan room and I'm like, yeah Like pulled like dick first into like over backward into the thing

you know, like his the back of his head is, are touching his heels and. Oh, like Becknell was twisting you up. Yeah. And at Mar the mortal tweeted, this was how Nancy Reagan had Frank Sinatra. And I just, for some reason I needed that. Oh my God.

You can find us on Twitter and blue sky at Daily Zeitgeist We're at the Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram You can go to the description of the episode wherever you're listening to it and there you will find the footnotes Which is where we link off to the information that we talked about in today's episode We also link off to a song that we think you might enjoy. Hey miles. Mm-hmm Is there a song you think people might enjoy? Yeah, I feel like being a husk has been a theme recently. We all feel like we've just become husks of ourselves or

referencing people who seem like husks of themselves. This track is called Husk by the band Ben I Trust. I really like this band, so this is more great dreamy pop rock vibes from men I tried the colors of Ben. I trust. Oh All right We will link off to that in the footnotes the naley's Ike is a production of I heart radio more podcast from my heart radio But is it their radio app Apple podcast or wherever you listen your favorite shows that is gonna do it for us this morning

We are back on Monday. Mm-hmm to tell you what is trending. We're off for We are back on Monday to tell you what is trending. We're off for Juneteenth. So take a short week this week. Hope everybody has a good long weekend and we will talk to you on Monday. Bye. Bye. The Daily Zeitgeist is executive produced by Catherine Long.

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