The Daily Zeitgeist - MJGMB #125: Patrick Ewing and Arvydas Sabonis Were So Dope with Pete Croatto

Episode Date: August 7, 2024

Miles and Jack were pleased to be joined by NBA historian and author Pete Croatto for today's episode. The trio discussed Team USA's continued dominance and some of the other Olympic highlights before shifting to our 90s nostalgia conversation. Pete waxes poetic about Patrick Ewing, Arvydas Sabonis and the late, great Drazen Petrovic!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm Keri Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry.

Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. I'm Keri Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Caitlin Clark vs. Angel Reese. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's basketball.

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Buckle up and listen to In Our Own World on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust us, it's out of this world. Well-a-chee, well-a-chee, well-a-chee. Team USA's men's squad is still rolling. As the games become more and more competitive, the stakes get higher,

but the results still feel a little predictable, which I like as a Team USA basketball fan. I like it. I love it. And we are like. Exactly. I cheer for the Terminator and the Terminator films. We're going to continue our 90s nostalgia conversation with a true NBA historian, author Pete Corrado. On today's episode, I'm Miles Gray. And I'm Jack O'Brien.

And this is Miles and Jack O'Brien Boosties! Dojic, deep three. Got it! And Luka Dojic hits 10k! There you go. And B, driving, spinning,

fading, hitting! When Brown's got it, the five is going to try another three. Mr. LeBron James. Giannis with the take. Uh-oh, look out. No showtime. What you got, Giannis? Oh, well, well, well.

Yeah, it's a hot day here in the United States, especially on the West Coast. It's a hot one. Oh, but I guess I'm on the West Coast. Jack, you are on the East Coast., especially on the West Coast. Oh, but I guess I'm on the West Coast. Jack, you are on the East Coast. I'm on the East Coast, representing holding our down. Pete, you are also on the East Coast. You are the author

from Hangtime to Primetime, and what a great time to have you on as we take a look back at some players that we, I feel like, aren't talked about enough from the 90s. But like I said, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining us.

How are you? We were wondering if we could have a little hang time with you here in primetime on our podcast. That was a silky smooth segue. That was beautiful. Thank you. No, thanks for having me back, guys. Yeah, looking forward to this. So what about, how are you looking at a team USA Olympic basketball?

Are you like following every match? You kind of like, I'll check the highlights when they come out. What sort of your, yeah, you know, I'm a highlight guy. I mean,

I'm a highlight guy with, with, uh, with, with team USA basketball, um, both men's and women's. Hey,

the other thing too, is like, there's really no, I mean, not to sound like a narrative windbag, but there's no storyline that really gets me into this. There's no redeem team. There's no, there really isn't anything that's really kind of hooking me in to watch.

And I mean, also the fact that the games are, when they're shown live, are kind of all over the place. It's hard for me to kind of catch up. So, no, I'm just reading accounts and following stuff on social media. Sure. What is it about the international game? Is it the spacing? I feel like there's a lot of...

What is it, the spacing? It just feels a little like college hoops played by NBAba players or something like everything's like kind of clogged up there's still like big men still matter that's cute it's quaint i'm all for that yeah i'm you know again as a um as a fan as a fan of the back to the basket style playing as someone who does it when he does play. This should very well be in my wheelhouse, but I don't know what it is.

With Olympic basketball, I don't know. It doesn't hit me the same way that it did 20, 25 years ago. That's okay. I'm obviously rooting for the U.S. to win, so that's fine. Your 90s players players by the way we're gonna talk your some of your favorite 90s guys and you you've got some of some of my favorite back to the basket highlights that i've watched in a long time makes i was gonna say speaking

back to the basket yeah yeah yeah for sure if if like we had the dream team and redeem team what nickname would you give this squad? Is it just like, hurry up and just win the gold already? I'm trying to, you know, it's funny. It's a little late in the day for me here, so my gears aren't rolling the way they should be. So I don't have any catchy nicknames. I don't know, maybe the,

gee, that's a good question. I guess the more the expectation, right? Because you were saying there's sort of a lack of a narrative you can invest in. The results seem pretty foregone conclusions. I don't know. The go-get-em squad?

Yeah, I get it. It's sort of just like... I think we all have the feeling of like, well, they're going to win. so yeah i mean they're gonna win yeah i mean it would be yeah i don't know again i think at some point there's gonna be a another um rejiggering of how this works sure there's gonna be maybe a mix of like college players and pro players on the u. side. So I don't know. I mean, the next, the next wrinkle that gets thrown in the next net obvious narrative that gets thrown in,

you know, that's when, that's when I think I'll be a little more interested in what's going on. But I mean, I also don't think it's over. It's not over. The U S has been playing really well up to this point. They have to play Serbia for,

uh, conservatively the 14th time this summer um in the final four uh coming up but i mean they always say beating a team for the 14th time is always more difficult um than the first time you're playing them so i can see you know something wild happened i did come into this olymp saying, I don't know why the U S is so heavily favored. And now, uh, I know why.

And that's called learning folks. Yeah. It's called maybe those warmup games were truly warmup games. You're like, I don't know. South Sudan feels like they were holding something back a little bit. Yeah. Um,

yeah, it, it feels like you're just watching them toy. Not toy but the way that they don't even have the beginnings of a rotation. They're just like, yeah, we're going to let this guy get his run.

Heading in, we were talking about how it felt like a YMCA basketball team where they're like, you five play, now you five play. Now you five. Let letting everybody get their minutes. And my dad's the coach. Yeah. And it still feels like that, like just on a game to game basis where they're like, all right, we're going to tell eight guys that they're in the rotation tonight and then just warn a couple other guys that they're sitting. I mean, it just warn a couple other guys that they're sitting

i mean it's so crazy if you think about it how quickly the olympics starts right after the nbc nba season ends i mean it's it's absurd it's what what maybe maybe six weeks when the finals ends and then you go right into international play you have to just again orchestrate chemistry and lineups on the fly i mean there's no there you know there is there's not a lot of runway to to to get lineups down so yeah i mean i can absolutely see that happening where steve kerr's like okay like derrick white great let's try this let's put let's let's sit jason tatum down for right yeah for a bit so yeah i i don't know that's interesting that's interesting to me but i i don't know how you guys feel about this too maybe i'm just maybe it's a side of my uh increasingly creaky old age but like between

the olympics the wmba i don't know i kind of i kind of need there to be a break from play like i i think to me like it's kind of nice to just have a little bit of rest before we go into the NBA preseason. I do follow the WNBA a little bit, but not to the extent of the NBA. But I do think it's

okay to have a break. But maybe I'm just a weirdo who doesn't want wall-to-wall basketball. You need to punctuate the action with a little bit of breathing space in between so you can begin to reset your expectations, build new fantasies in your brain

as I do as a Lakers fan. If they're playing all the time and Rui's hurt, I can't begin to write fan fiction in my mind with non-stop basketball. Seeing the team not look that great with Embiid in there until this past game against Brazil has really not given my brain the break it needs

to begin dreaming of a fantasy 76er season where it all comes together and the 76ers win the title. Because now I'm still seeing the same problems with Embiid being in the middle out there so i'm like i can't even dream i can't even there's no REM sleep in this off season yeah like again it's you know again with the 92 dream team um like that was very much just a one big celebration from start to finish and it watching those games as a teenager, it didn't really feel like there was

much struggle involved. I was a Knick guy, so watching Patrick Ewing play, I wasn't thinking about, I don't know, he's not adjusting well to the double teams. I was just happy watching him clean some guy from Brazil's

clock. But now, because the teams are so much more competitive internationally you don't have that ability just see joel and b drop 35 points and feel good about yourself you have to think about like oh boy like you know he looks like, he looks like he's struggling here in the summer and he's not going to have time to recharge. So yeah, it adds a lot of drama, a lot of drama to you. If you're, if you're, if you're, if you're a fan of a team. Yeah. I mean, I, I can't, I mean, I love him be, but I can't, I can't imagine being a Sixers fan and watching this unfold. It's gotta be painful.

A joy like being a Sixers fan is always a joy. Yeah. I don't know. I was talking to my, uh, Philly cousins, shout out Drew, shout out,

uh, all my cousins from Philly. And they, they were talking about like, they get frustrated at, about like Sixers fandom is like everybody. It's just like, everybody's constantly depressed and like sad.

Like even in this off season where they like finally put us really compelling team together around them. Be like, yeah, but I'm beads the problem. And so I don't know. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna stop being as critical and just immediately depressed as I usually

am until, you know, at least 10 games into the regular season. I get it because look, I used to be a diehard Knicks fan and in a way it became impossible to enjoy the game at its simplest level. So like, you know,

again, like I, you know, I, I tell the story a lot, but like I was a Knicks fan during Michael Jordan's heyday when basically every spring he would just beat the Knicks. Like Michael Jordan's heyday when basically every spring he would just beat the Knicks like he owed like they owed him money like it was just every spring

was the same narrative played over and over again and as a as a kid as a teenager my springs were miserable because Michael Jordan was just killing the Knicks and torturing Hubert Davis and John Starks for 40 points a game. And not only could I not enjoy the Knicks, I couldn't enjoy Michael Jordan. I couldn't enjoy arguably the greatest player of all time at his apex because I was worried about Anthony Mason not getting enough playing time or Hubert Davis' inability to take the ball to the hoop. So the one cool thing about being sort of a basketball, I don't know,

like just being a basketball fan, being someone who just watches the games to watch them, is that I can watch any game without that nagging feeling that you have, Jack, of being a Sixers fan. Yeah. And, you know, and wondering like, you know, is Paul George going to be effective yeah and you know and and wondering like you know is is paul george going to be effective when this when his contract ends and he's like 38 years old i

mean yeah those are that's that those are things i don't have to deal with anymore and it's it's kind of nice just to be able to watch a game to watch a game yeah but i don't know it's my take that's the what the one thing i really enjoy about like watching the international games or like the olympic games is like especially when the u.s is playing is i actually i feel happy for all of the people that are clearly in there to see all these nba players and just like the excitement they get was just like yeah lebron's on a fast break he dunked it they're like it's just like exploding everyone is like yes i saw it i got to see this i got to see the thing yeah and like katie having great games that's not special effects

he can actually do that yeah yeah he just did that in front of me like right here did you see him he shook tony parker's hand tony parker looked like a little guy next to him shocking stuff shocking stuff yeah but that's but though but that's i think but you're that's a really good point though because i think it's very easy to forget those little things yeah basic things that we just take for granted like you know again just to you know to see lebron james performing the way he is at what 39 yeah unbelievable it's incredible like just just just say to me like that's the beautiful part about the olympics that there is a part of it that i think is that i think i that i think i

gravitate toward is the fact that you can enjoy players without having to worry about the rot the baggage they bring right so like i can't so like if you're a cavaliers fan and you're still upset about lebron bolting twice you can can watch the Olympics and just enjoy LeBron being LeBron. Or, you know, if you hate Steph Curry, you can just enjoy Steph Curry shooting threes with ease. You know, it just naturally. That's kind of the nice part about the Olympics. It just allows you to be, I guess, more of a fan instead of having these these allegiances you know way down way down your

viewing environment. USA Basketball did have to come out and specifically say yes USA does include Cleveland. I know there is some question about that but you are we do represent you as well so that was exciting for them. I do

wonder like if they continue this dominance and i don't i don't personally i don't expect that to happen i think they're gonna have tougher games against serbia and then uh france or germany but um like would this be the most impressive because they haven't been this dominant since the dream team. And there's so much more talent around, like in, on these other teams than even four years ago. Like that,

it would be pretty wild if this team was able to just like kind of continue doing what they're doing so far. Yeah. So I, in that way, they're kind of underdogs because they're playing against history they're playing against themselves and they're playing against heightened competition that is not nearly as good as them and jet lag oh the jet lag yeah yeah what bron's eating

like the bad no uh olympic village food no not a chance right i don't think any of the i doubt any of the u.s athlete i don't i like the stakes are so high like for like because this is like also like you know soft propaganda for the world so like it's like yeah dude we brought it we bought we brought like a herd of cattle to process our own beef so they're eating enough red right there yeah yeah they're not i don't think they're either they're they're walking the streets of paris looking for mcdonald's you don't think so yeah you don't think lebron's being forced to swim in the sen right there was like that one i think an italian swimmer who was like sleeping in a nearby park because he's like the olympic village was like too uncomfortable for him like

the guy just like took a nap in a park and they're like yo this guy just competed in the olympics yeah it's it's a very... I think it all depends... I think he might have just been out drinking to be fair. I've slept in parks before, but usually after a pretty wild night. Alright, let's take a quick break. We can come back.

We'll talk about some of the other international teams and some great 90s players. This is going to be a history lesson that i'm gonna you might have forgotten about i didn't certainly but uh you the listener may have we'll be right back i'm carrie champion and this is season four of naked sports where we live at the intersection of sports and culture up first i explore the making of a rivalry, Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about

women's basketball just because of one single game. Every great player needs a foil. I ain't really near them boys. I just come here to play basketball every single day and that's what I focus on. From college to the pros, Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Angel Reese is a joy to watch. She is unapologetically black. I love her. What exactly ignited this fire? Why has it been so good for the game? And can the fanfare surrounding these two supernovas be sustained?

This game is only going to get better because the talent is getting better. This new season will cover all things sports and culture. Listen to Naked Sports on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by Diet Coke. All right, here we go. It's Cam Jordan from New Orleans Saints, here to tell you it's going down.

On season two of my podcast, Off the Edge with me, Cam Jordan. Can't stop it. You know what's going to happen. Can't stop it. That's right. Catch new episodes every Wednesday, all season long. That's what you look for in year 14 to do more. And I'll have my friends who happen to be some of the NFL's biggest stars join me on the pod. We'll give you a player's perspective of the biggest storylines, trends, and did that really just happen moments from around the league. And you know we'll have fun doing it. Ha!

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Sorry, Mike. I found Australia annoying just across the board in the Olympics this year. Wow. I'm standing by it. I don't like you. No, that's not true. There was a doubles team that beat the US that was annoying to me. That's mainly who I'm talking about.

But Australia basketball has been eliminated by Serbia. And over time, despite a great game from Patty Mills. You're never going to guess who closed the show for Serbia. Jokic. I'm just going to read this from Lior Kozai, a summary of the end of the game. Jokic block. Jokic knocks a layup off the rim.

Jokic steal. Jokic jump hook in traffic to take a one point lead. Jokic turnaround fade layup off the rim. Jokic steal. Jokic jump hook in traffic to take a one-point lead. Jokic turnaround fadeaway to go up by three, all within 90 seconds. Wow. Yeah. He just took it over. He's good at basketball, I think. I mean, I'm still waiting to, you know,

a fourth MVP would convince me, but like, yeah. He's on his way, yeah. Not quite there. We got a World War matchup coming between Germany and France. Germany defeated Greece and Giannis. France defeated Canada and Dylan Brooks and Jamal Murray and Shea Gilgis Alexander. Canada, I think a lot of people were expecting to be up there on the podium. So I'd say that was the biggest surprise of a team going out earlier than expected, as of yet.

And they won despite Wemby Yama not having his best stuff in this game. He did give us the photograph of the Olympics so far by blocking Dylan Brooks in an otherwise forgettable game. But just, you know, his head is at the backboard. His arm is up incredibly high. Dylan Brooks is shooting a floater that is getting easily gobbled up by Wimpy Gamma in midair. It's pretty wild. Yeah, He's, he's,

he's going to be a special player. I mean, it's, it's, it's, yeah, he's just so talented. That guy,

where do you, uh, do you think he is in the MVP competition two years from now, three years from now, next season? I think two years. I think two years is expected as he, as he gets,

as his body gets used to an NBA schedule, as he gets, is expected as he, as he gets, as his body gets used to an NBA schedule, as he gets, as he grows up, as he gets older, it gets more weight on it. Wait on this frame. Yeah. I mean,

I think, I think in two years he'll be, he'll be right. He'll be right in that competition, especially if the Spurs get good, you know? And, and that's,

that's, that's a big part of this too. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's every time I've seen him play, it's just, he's,

I mean, he is, he is, he's he's an anomaly i mean you don't see that body that that that length that height the ability to shoot from the outside i mean it is he's he's he's a creature i mean it's just there's no other way there's no other way to put it yeah did you guys watch any three on three basketball i just want to bring this up really quickly i didn't watch the gold i'd watch the gold medal game was this sport specifically invented to create a basketball medal that the usa did not win potentially because i i'd imagine right because i mean and here's not even my conspiratorial thinking i mean it's like truly like even as the olympic like the ioc describes the history of three on three it's like american street basketball you know what i mean it's, so clearly like we're taking this from

American culture, but you know, as I think most of us were like, bro, we should be putting out a team that should just be serving people out there. It's the eligibility rules. You have putting this team together. Well, you have to be playing fiba three on three basketball that's the thing yeah so what player is going to be like i just finished my nba season i'll now spend my entire summer trying to get enough games in in the fiba three by three on three circuit to be eligible that's why like some you know i think the closest thing was maybe cameron brink who before she injured her acl she was going to be on that three on three team but like so there are definitely there's

WNBA representation and for NBA players who have either played the game or not whatever Jimmer it did not happen they came in seventh out of eight Canyon Barry I didn't know there was still a Barry person playing

I know I had no idea yeah i mean i i the thing that the thing that i i found really curious about the three-on-three tournament and this is just me being being just you know just seeing pictures and whatever but like why why was the the ball just seemed really really weird it was something you get from like a supermarket like small and it is yeah like it was different colors too it just it looked i don't know i don't know if that's just the design of it or just it wasn't even like a leather basketball it was like a it just looked like something you get like like like a rub like those big rubber balls that are like a like you know the supermarket yeah like a big page yeah yeah like dodgeball balls yeah exactly yeah it's like you know the the ball is slightly smaller

than the fiba size seven ball they use because they said they're trying to humiliate us what is going on this is exactly do all the little things to throw americans up yeah the ball's different like it's sometimes the ball's uneven and like when you bounce it it just goes in a different direction yeah like when you've been treating an outdoor ball terribly. That's called a whammy. All right. But like, who do we need to get involved here? Like one name came up before. I think Jabari said it. And I was like, yes, that is

who would be the best three-on-three player from the NBA. Is Kyrie Irving. I was going to say, like, Kyriei is great but if you're looking for retired i mean joe johnson has been the name that's come joe johnson's been so good yeah three on three who um but kairi would be amazing yeah he's so fun amazing i feel like yeah you could easily like create some kind of like development league where it's like the old like and one type players

are like let's because i would that would just be such a show uh but but that didn't really even look like what was winning in three on three it was like slow and people cutting and yeah in my mind it's just straight up like clear out the clear out the lane every time like yeah just doing one-on-one um and then shooter i mean it feels like there are some, like the amount of three-point shooting is very inconsistent. And like sometimes, like there were some games where the US

took like six threes total, which are twos in this. But the reason, like it took the NBA two and a half decades to realize, wow, threes are mathematically worth so many more points than twos. We should change the way we run our offenses

to take that into account. Two is even more than one. Like it's double, you know, mathematically, and I did crunch the numbers on this and I spent a lot of time on this. Two is way more than 1 it's actually yeah I did run

the numbers by Terrence Howard and he confirmed even in Terriology it's so if you just have Kyrie and shooting and then you know people who are able to defend I don't know so like a big who can

shoot that makes sense to me you get you get a point guard you get a really good outside shooter you get a big man or you know you get it you get a center like i mean just thinking now like you probably do that with recently retired nba players yeah and but i don't know i mean i again i'm this this sounds great in my mind but but again, you know, I'm a dumbass, so this is probably someone's probably all too ready to refute this. But, like, I don't know. If you've got, like, let's say Kyle Korver and Dwight Howard

from whatever league he's roaming around in, and, I don't know, let's say let's just say Rafer Alston to go back to being, you know, does that team do well? Does that team do better than this team? Yeah.

Right. Do better than seventh of eight. Probably. I think, I think maybe, maybe Jamal Crawford is also an idea that was thrown out by a super producer. Jabari. I really liked,

and I'm a little concerned that he wasn't actually involved. I think Jamal Crawford, Joe Johnson, what are we doing here, guys? Why were they not on this team? Just the big three, too. The big three's running right now, right? So you can't really do that. You can't have the big three.

I mean, it feels like it would be worth it. Find a way to make it worth their while. All right. We should get to the continuation of our summer of 90s hoops conversation. Um, I, I'm a big Patrick Ewing fan. Uh, so it's Ewing, it's Petrovich, and it is the guy I was referring to up top.

Back to the basket. Magician. Arvidas Sabonis he is Arvidas he is Sabonis he is your desire I very good um but

Ewing has definitely become underrated over the years because he's just one of those guys who like never quite got there in terms of the title but was so great and like at his peak was blocking everything was you know a bucket was just so good on the on the glass just uh unbelievable you know yeah yeah do you think if he hadn't been injured in 99 do you think they win the title me no i don't think they do i i think i think i mean again you know the that run was it was

incredible and it was it was it was led by you know spreewell and canby um you know ewing at that point was 14 years into his career and you know had played heavy, heavy minutes for the majority of that time, he was not the Patrick Ewing of 1989 or even 1995. He was a good center, but I don't think he was going to hold up against David Robinson and Tim Duncan in the 99 finals. And in fact, when he got hurt is when they went on the run. Exactly, yeah. And that's, I think, what ultimately led the knicks to say to

themselves like we really don't need yeah patrick ewing uh anymore which was a whole drama um you know when i was you know when i was reading the sports pages back in the day but you're right i mean ewing was somebody who i think as time has as time, he's become forgotten, I think, for a few reasons. A, he didn't win a championship. B, he came during an era of just superstar centers with Shaquille O'Neal and Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson. Bale won championships. And Ewing sort of became kind of like the 80s, 90s version of like, you know, Elvin Hayes, just a player that was, you know, you look at him, you look at the stats, you put up wonderful stats, but he kind of gets lost in the shuffle. But it's funny when you look at Ewing now, he really was he was really the beginning of or rather the start of the out of the outside shooting centers yeah there were a few there were

a few that were yeah there were a few that were around like in the 70s and even the 60s but ewing was really a lot of his game was you know baseline jumper top of the circle jumper and he had he had great post moves but he was he liked to be in the outside and i think back then that was sort of a knock against him was that he wasn't really as physical as he should have been. Kind of like Embiid is now where, you know, I think if you watch Embiid play, I think he kind of favors the outside a little too much. But Patrick Goodwin was a great player. I think it was just his misfortune that not only did he not win a championship, but he didn't, for whatever reason, the Knicks front office dave jackets and you know primarily they never surrounded him with great complimentary players they never really surrounded him with with a with a great number two player he never really had you know the way

that you know um uh steph had clay you know lebron james had kairi irving patrick you didn't really Steph had Clay, LeBron James had Kyrie Irving. Patrick Newton didn't really have a terrific number two player. Dominique Wilkins in Atlanta. They drafted Mark Jackson. He won Rookie of the Year, but he was gone pretty quickly. He was gone pretty quickly, and he

wasn't like Kyrie Irving. He wasn't a guy that... He wasn't the kind of player that you could depend on to score 25 points. He wasn't like he wasn't like Kyrie Irving he wasn't a guy that he wasn't the kind of player that you could depend on to score 25 points. He wasn't like a bucket yeah he was just a great point guard. Great point guard great player but again not

you know wasn't going to put up 25 points a game and you know the Knicks tried to get Ewing that they traded for Rolando Blackman back in 92 that didn't work out because Rolando Blackman aged about 15 years in the season he was in New York. Xavier McDaniel was a little past his prime when they picked him up in 91. Charles Smith wasn't

who they thought, wasn't the premier talent he was going to they thought the Knicks thought they were going he was gonna they thought the nick the next thought they were gonna get so it just didn't really work out for for patrick ewing with getting number two but i i you know again i was a knicks fan growing up and i love patrick ewing because he just he he just always seemed to work so hard and again the image i have of patrick ewing is him part of the free throw line sweating like he had just run two marathons like he was he was just pouring sweat and i think that further um uh kind of further accentuated this whole warrior aspect about him but no yeah he was a he was a great player i mean it was awesome absolutely

i mean like what i mean and i was too young but like in when he was at Georgetown, was he known for being as offensive a player as he added those dimensions? Because I felt like I remember at least my childish perception of him was like he was an insane defender in college. And then added these other, and credit to him, evolved his game in a way that obviously makes him, him as Shaq would say one of the greats which is wild too because for me I always thought I like you know being when Shaq came in the league I'm like this is what I think is like a dope center but I remember later on Shaq was on NBA TV and like got emotional talking about Patrick Ewing and that's when I sort of was like oh I'm I'm a child or like obviously i have a very one dimensional way of looking at like you know judging someone's game and that was like a very interesting i'll just play like a quick clip of it because it was sort of like one of these things

was like oh wow like shack is truly giving this man his flowers and as he always put it he's like i saw him as a great that i was modeling my game after but i had to build on that so yes that part of that does include destroying him but that's just my spirit as a competitor not because i have no respect for him you all right no what's up you're getting look like you're getting emotional yeah i just saw patrick ewan man that's a real tear too yeah that was patrick ewan did we get a close-up on it yeah can we zoom into that that's real tears ladies and gentlemen that's not trickeration are you saying not like the real tissue like the real answer? Get you a tissue.

Like the real abs? No, you know what? A lot of people, you know, a lot of people when they talk about the greats, Patrick Ewing's name never comes up. But I'm putting Patrick Ewing's name there. He's went for the tear. And there's one of the greats. He's a great competitor. Even though he never won the championship.

Even at a time when you scream, this is my house, get out. Of course. Hey, listen. Listen. I watch a lot of karate movies. And in every karate movie the student always had to kill the teacher to become the best so you know even even though pat was better than me i had to to say that to psych myself out but yeah so yeah yeah it's like when

you hear those kinds of sort of uh kind words that kind of really put things into perspective of like where he was i think a lot of people remember the missed layup and like a crucial missed layup towards the end of his career but just watching some of these highlights that uh super producer jabari put together the violence with which he dunked on people yeah early in his career i mean and like throughout his career is really like yeah it feels kind of influential in in some ways like he was he was he was he was an enforcer and again like i don't think you play with charles oakley for eight nine years and you know thrive with him if you're timid or if you're if you're weak-willed yeah patrick gilley was was a scary dude and he was somebody who as you put it jack like he would he would dunk dude. And he was somebody who, as you put it, Jack,

he would dunk on you and he came to the hoop hard. But I think it's unfortunate that, again, we remember the times that he came up short. Like the 94 finals is a perfect example. Akeem Olajuon just cleaned his clock and i think that is what people remember they remember they remember akeem going banana going bananas against against patrick ewing and john stark's going was it two for 19 um in game seven appeals yeah so yeah so it's very um so yeah mean, unfortunately, if he had won one championship, the way that Elvin Hayes did, the way that Dolph Shays did, I'm going back a ways, Wills Reed won two.

He's remembered a lot. I think he'd be remembered a lot more fondly. And it would take, it would take, it wouldn't take Shaquille O'Neal to kind of get people to remember him. He was an outstanding player. And he also played an impossible media market and miles as you said like yeah at georgetown he was like he's more like a bill russell type like a block a rebounder defensive guy and he yeah i mean if you look at his highlights in college like he's not doing those you know he's not doing that back to the

basket curl to the center jump shot he's not you know posting up on the low blocks he's very much just a kind of a the ultimate he's a defensive presence he's a defensive monster and so yeah i mean i don't think he gets nearly enough credit for being for being a truly great player i mean he put in 14 or 15 great seasons. How often does that happen? Right. Yeah. Yeah. He, uh, he, he was also like Embiid and like Olajuwon, like started hooping pretty late in life. You know, he didn't come to the U S until 11 and started playing basketball then. So, um, I think that's like MB, you know, Embiid in college was not a, uh, like the

thing you'd noticed about him was not his like deft offensive touch it was like wow he's like really athletic and like good at blocking and um yeah yeah but you do have to talk about i was saying speaking of shack um yeah someone who really i something that really puts things into perspective especially like we got to talk about our view to sabonis sabonis grew up watching us do battle with him uh on these western conference finals and the playoffs just throughout the regular season and he was one of the most frustrating players i remember being like but we got shack but this guy sabonis he's like not even as athletic i don't understand it was really frustrating and then i remember like later on

i learned i was like oh we were playing the dusty version of arvita sabonis like we'd missed peak arvita sabonis and that's in my mind wizard's version of arvita sabonis give his that work and i was like yeah yeah you know. It's funny looking at the old highlights of Arvidas Sabonis and he's so much like Jokic. Yeah. Great outside touch. Amazing passer.

Just a guy that just a great team player. You're right, Miles. I remember watching, i think it was a um the rookie the rookie showcase the rookie first year player whatever that's called the rising stars challenge like in 95 96 and i remember sabonis played in that game and like he's playing against 18 year olds exactly like yeah he's playing he 18-year-olds. Exactly. He's playing against Joe Smith and he's up in all these young bloods.

He looked like he was running in sand. He was moving so slowly and so tenderly. It seemed like he was in pain playing at that kind of pace. pain playing right at that kind of pace but he was but he was just but even at the minute state he was he was not only was he was he a good player he was a very good player but he was a key contributor some really really good portland trailblazer team i mean that that 2000 team that game seven aside that that meltdown, they head to the finals. So, yeah, to watch Sabonis, like, that's one of the great what-ifs. Like, what if Sabonis, when he was drafted by Atlanta originally in 86, 85, what if he came out then?

What if he was able to make that jump and play with Dominique Wilkins, Kevin Willis. That, to me, is one of the great... What if he came back five years before, like in 89, and played with Clyde Drexler and Jerome Percy? And potentially Drazen Petrovic, even. Yeah.

Drazen Petrovic was also part of that also started with Portland. I think we're talking about a completely different world i think he comes over um he's giving bird the work like he's better than bird right away and we lose the cold war like america's spirit is completely deflated and it's like rocky for in. He comes over and we're just like, they got us, man. This is our basketball. Absolutely hoop. I had nothing,

no frame. My brain would not have been able to compute somebody coming over from Russia. I was like, Russia, yeah, okay, they might be superior in ice hockey. They don't have basketball over there it's too cold and like having just like have the nastiest game like some of these highlights we'll link off to them in the show notes but like some of these highlights are

it's like oh yeah I've never seen that pass anywhere except for maybe magic and yokich and it's like a behind the back pass where he's not even like looking he just like has a sense that somebody's where he knows they are and it goes past three people's heads like just over their shoulders like three defenders and just like weaves its way through in a way that seems like it's, it doesn't make sense. Right. He was a, he was a magician and he was, he was so splendid in the low post passing. I mean,

I can watch clips of Arvita Sabonis in Portland passing to Scotty Pippen and Steve Smith and Kenny Anderson all day because it seemed like once or twice a game, one of them would cut and Sabonis would just deliver a bullet bounce pass, hits the guy right in the stride. To me, what I love about watching Jokic play is to me,

this is going to sound silly, but I kind of wonder what it would be like to play half-court basketball with him. I get so excited. I can't imagine what it would be like playing half-c with with jokic or with sabonis because like you just know that if you make a cut to the basket you're gonna the ball's gonna be in the right location and you'll be and if you move you'll be rewarded bird was like that magic was like that where they

just they just had a they just they had just great anticipation, and they trusted their teammates to be in the right spot. But, I mean, Sabonis, it's so—but, yeah, I mean, when Sabonis came to Portland, and you touched on this just now, Jack, like, now we hear about players coming in from overseas, and it's not a big deal. Like, you know, Wemby goes first, and it's, oh, deal like you know right wendy goes first and it's it's oh okay yeah of course he's a seven foot three freak of nature you shoot outside jump shots he's 19 of course we're going to get him right but back in back in the 80s and 90s even the early 2000s there wasn't this pipeline of information there wasn't you know there wasn't there wasn't the basketball hadn't really spread the way that it has it has where we can actually talk about the Olympic Games being competitive among multiple countries.

So when Arvita Savonis came along, and even when Drazen got drafted, Petrovic and Vlade Divac, there was a lot of suspicion. Because that wasn't a normal thing to get players from overseas and bring them into the nba right yeah not like unless they were like a key melange or debtless strength and they went to a u.s college right got refined got got reps and then okay it's fine but like to pluck someone from a foreign country and bring them into the nba that was not that was almost unheard of, especially in the late 1980s. And it's the position of this show that it should

go back to that way. We don't like them, USA all the way. And also, he's from Lithuania, not Russia, Jack. It was the USSR back then, but he's from Lithuania. Yeah, yeah, yeah. USSR. Whatever, man. Too much Rocky. Too rocky-brained brain if he dies he dies

it was ussr though man that would have been that would have been close enough for me would have messed me right up i mean um that's i mean again huge what if what if sabonis comes through you know if if first of all if the soviet union had allowed it and then maybe he doesn't get that achilles injury that he needs to read which is another thing too is like this guy was playing with like a busted achilles and so he's still still playing well still playing great yeah but surgery too good point yeah right but the next what if which i think as i was looking into this more and more seems to be like one of the biggest what ifs in the nba which is draws in petrovich um he played what like three seasons in the nba i think 88 89 was his first season what let's see he played in the finals against the piss in the 90s so right 89

i think it's like yeah it's for 89 and 93 yeah but yeah all that to say is like as i you know there there was one this one interview i was watching with reggie miller and he's like the 89 to 93. Yeah, but all that to say is as I... There was this one interview I was watching with Reggie Miller and he's like, the greatest shooter of all time is actually Drazen Petrovic. And I was like, whoa. I mean, I knew he was nice with it, but a lot

of people really talk about his last season with the Nets and you're like, oh, this thing is about to go off like fully and he tragically passed away in a car accident at 28 that you know cut his career short but um you know what was sort of when you saw the list of people you can talk about like when we were talking about 90s nostalgia players and like aside from the what-ifs like or maybe it was the what-ifs what really drew you to drazen petrovic i mean with draws and petrovich is more about that team the nets i think you know again i i grew up

in central new jersey which was very much nick's territory right even though the nets played in the metal lands which was like 30 minutes from my house for my parents house so but but the but the nets that nets team like 92 93 93 94 was absolutely stacked like they were primed to do to do great things because you had drazen petrovich who's coming into his own who's a remarkable shooter and this is why why youtube is such a gift if you're a sports nerd or any any kind of devotee because you can go back and watch game footage and driving Patrick Ridge if you watch the game footage I'm sure you guys have his release is just lightning quick like he he comes off curls and just shoots and it looks almost like an optical illusion he is so so quick and

he would have thrived in today's game he was he was almost like a clay thompson type where he was just he he just could shoot from anywhere could get to the basket if he needed to. Great player. But Drossen was special. But that team, like, you have to remember this. New Jersey and New York was always Knicks. Still is to a certain degree. But back in 92, 92, 93.

No, 93, 94, I believe. I'm getting my dates mixed up. Chuck Daly gets hired to coach the Nets, which is a big deal. Because Chuck Daly, again, coached the Dream Team. He was also Pistons head coach during the glory years. So this is a big get. You get Chuck Daly. And then you get Derek Coleman, who was a great player, inside- could could great rebounder you have kenny anderson who's one

of the one of the best point guards coming up who was just you know explosive left-hander which is you know again throws everyone off and they have johnson petrovich that is a great big three right there and you have the right coach you have involved. I think also on that team was Rick Mahorn, Mo Cheeks, like good veteran stability there. And they had one season. They didn't really get very far. I think they lost to the Knicks in the first round, I want to say. And that was it. Like, you know, Dawson Petrovic dies, you know, in June in that terrible car accident on the Autobahn.

And the Nets never recover. Kenny Anderson gets injured, I think, right around the middle of the 93-94 season. When was that? He gets injured. He breaks his wrist one year. It isn't really the same. Derek Coleman never puts it together.

He never reaches full maturity, and that window closes. yes that's one to me like one of the great what-ifs is if that next team had another season if you put together anderson a healthy kenny anderson a derrick coleman that isn't you know that that gets it together um maturity wise and drives and petrovic. You get those two together and Chuck Daly, how far do they go? Yeah.

You know, I really think that's one of the great, one of the great what-ifs in basketball history, along with, you know, what if Maurice Stokes doesn't hit his head and basically becomes a paraplegic when he's with the Rockets, when he's with the Royals. It's one of those great what-ifs, I think.

Wow. Amazing. All right. We are going to take one more break. We're going to come back, and we're going to do the fastest rapid-fire round of questioning that you've ever heard. We'll be right back. I'm Kerry Champion,

and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports, where we live at the intersection of sports and culture. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry, Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Every great player needs a foil. I ain't really near them.

Why is that? I just come here to play basketball every single day, and that's what I focus on. From college to the pros, Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Angel Reese is a joy to watch. She is unapologetically black. I love her. What exactly ignited this fire? Why has it been so good for the game?

And can the fanfare surrounding these two supernovas be sustained? This game is only going to get better because the talent is getting better. This new season will cover all things sports and culture. Listen to Naked Sports on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by Diet Coke. All right, here we go.

It's Cam Jordan from New Orleans Saints here to tell you it's going down on season two of my podcast, Off the Edge with me, Cam Jordan. Can't stop it. You know what's going to happen. Can't stop it. That's right. Catch new episodes every Wednesday, all season long. That's what you look for in year 14 to do more. No days off. And I have my friends who happen to be some of the NFL's biggest stars join me on the pod. We'll give you a player's perspective of the biggest storylines, trends, and did that really just happen moments from around the league.

And you know we'll have fun doing it. Ha! Yeah! Oh, and I'll have a special guest each month join me to mix it up a little bit. Who is it? None other than... S than psych you have to tune in to find out so tap in to off the edge with cam jordan's podcast your ultimate playbook for all things football and not football listen on the iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts hey this is mike right from the Fantasy Footballers Dynasty Podcast.

You heard that right. The Fantasy Footballers have officially entered the Dynasty space. Every week we bring you the same in-depth analysis and entertainment you've come to expect from the Fantasy Footballers, only now from a Dynasty perspective. Maybe you've been living in the Dynasty Fantasy Football space for a while. Well, we're here to take your game to the next level. Maybe you love fantasy football and you've been living in the Dynasty fantasy football space for a while. Well, we're here to take your game to the next level. Maybe you love fantasy football and you've been feeling that itch to jump into the Dynasty format, but it feels a little bit intimidating.

No matter where you're coming from, the Fantasy Footballers Dynasty podcast has something for you, and you're going to have a great time listening, I promise. Join me and the rest of the crew every Wednesday for a new episode. Listen to the Fantasy Footballers Dynasty podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. We're back.

We're back. Pete, Pete, Pete. My dear Pete. Yeah? and we're back we're back my dear pete yes we've had a had a great time talking nostalgia ball with you but now it's time to ball b-a-w-l tears of pain because you have entered the hot seat it's the fourth quarter rapid fire round of questioning it's very hot in my office as I record, so forgive my stuttered speech at the moment. I was going to say, I hope this isn't on video. I am sweating like a pot roast here. The doors are closed

and it's like I'm in ops. This is why this is going to be the fastest one because I only have a few more breaths before I succumb to the heat. We don't have much time. Before I succumb to heat stroke. I think we just got to replace our to heat stroke. I think we just gotta replace our 90s players. I think we need to take advantage of Pete's

immense backlog of knowledge and do that. And it'll be so rapid because it's only gonna be one shot. We're gonna take one shot. I'll do the best that I can. We'll get ready because here we go.

Brian, start the clock. All right. You want to go first? Well, there's only one question. Yeah. Wait, where is the... Which one are you going to do? The one question?

Yeah. Where was the... We had the second ago... I wasn't messing around the dog did you do something replace the ones we there it is all right you you want to do it i'm gonna ask i'm gonna ask another one i'm gonna ask another question though okay i think we should do i think we should do yes hold on it's so fast dude i know you can't believe it but here we are pete we have two more installments of the 90s nostalgic conversation uh so we're asking each guest to give us a few more names to replace the ones we

discussed today. Uh, you've seen the overall list. So give us a few more to discuss. Yeah. Who, who are the players that we're missing from our list? Let's see who are missing from the list.

I'm trying to remember the list. Um, we've got, I'll give you, I'll tell you who's still on the board. Sean Kemp, Iverson, Reggie Lewis,

Alan Iverson, Glenn Robinson,, Allen Iverson, Glenn Robinson, Ray Allen, Dennis Rodman, Detlef Schrempf, Hakeem, Spree, Vlade, Sam Cassell, Anthony the Iceman Peeler. That's from our last week's guest, Matt Lieb. Anthony Peeler.

Oh my goodness. Someone's a missouri fan that was going to be anthony peeler was going to be my guest oh yeah that was going to be your pick or anthony pig miller um no i will go with um that's a fine list you know who you know thank you so much sam perkins that's That's one person. Perk. So smooth. So smooth with it. What a smooth stroke. Okay.

Yeah. One more. You got to give us one more. One more. Okay. One more. You know what? Let's go off the beaten path here.

Marty Conlon. Again, there are very few players who I've watched who remind me of me when I play. And again, I'm a slow, not terribly talented back to the basket player. And Marty Conlon would be my avatar. If I played in the NBA, he had the worst head fake and everyone always bid on it on the same way.

And again, like you're not, you don't really see players like him anymore these very traditional bangers back to the basket type players who just sort of stick around for five to ten years but you know they're just you know that they're that are quintessential hustle hustle hustle guys right so yeah my my so sam perkins and marty conlon would be my my uh oh can i throw a third one in there sure yeah please okay um you know what and you can probably replace marty con with this because i don't think anyone's going to listen to anyone discuss marty conlon aka the celtic killer uh so he will be on the list. Yeah.

He did top out at 10 points per game. There you go. See, that's what I would be. If I, if I were playing an NBA player's body, I'd be 10 points easy. Yeah. And 0.4 blocks a game.

Robert is his finest, but I, but the player that I didn't see on that list, what that was great in the nineties that doesn't get enough love is mark price yeah just yeah phenomenal playmaker was one of the pretty much started the trend of when a double team comes you split the middle like he would do that a lot he would split like on a pick and roll he would just like kind of duck in and take to the hoop great three-point shooter i think he over 40% from three-point line back when that was more of a novelty.

But yeah, amazing player career was cut short because of an, of an ACL injury. And yeah, he was, he was, and he was phenomenal on some really, really good Cleveland Cavaliers teams back in the day.

So yeah, Mark Price would be my, my choice as well. Okay. One of the most beautiful strokes I've ever seen. Just a gorgeous final question for you, Pete. Please describe to us your

personal highlight for you as a basketball player. As a basketball player? What's your greatest performance you've put in on the court? My greatest performance? Oh boy. This is going gonna sound a little silly but i guess i'll go with it because it's contemporary and i don't want to bore people

with you know back in my day uh stories because they're not they're not that impressive but i'll tell you it's it's my daughter is um is seven and um so she'll where's this going and you just put up like windmill donner and i am just torching her with right with jump hooks no but my my daughter is seven years old now and she she will she one of those great joys is like we will shoot baskets together or like you know we'll go to the line you know she'll chase down rebounds and one of the nice one of the greatest moments is just being able to shoot with her and her being impressed that I can actually make a basket. That's not going to last for too much longer because she's going to know

that I'm a terrible athlete and that I'm a 35% shooter at best. You've got to be adding tools in the off-season when she's around. I know. I should be dedicated to working on my left hand. Only so many hours a day. But that's probably the nicest moment is just being able to go out there and have that moment with my daughter. And I hope that she's able to appreciate or maybe get into sports because she sees me doing it.

Right. So that's really, that's really, that's been a recent development that I really have. I really cherish, you know, it's better than the time I, you know, I did like two behind the back passes in a game or. Right, right, right. You know, almost puts the backboard on a layup. So, yeah. it turns out that was the correct answer that we had yeah that's amazing that we knew that that was your answer and that was the correct one you've humbled us pete grotto yeah i i'm trying i'm just trying

to elevate the conversation uh so yeah yeah one story at a time that's why we love having you on man well where do the people find you follow you read you support you all that good stuff pete oh well thank you well yeah i mean um i'm on x twitter whatever it's called now twitter uh at pete croato uh my name which is uh p-e-t-e-c-r-o-a-t-t-o uh you can buy my book from hang time the prime time pretty much anywhere uh still on amazon still on barnes and noble uh it still hasn't been turned to mulch, so buy it there. Yeah, I mean, I'm always, you know, I'm always, you know, I'm on also

most of the social media under some variation of my name, and I'm always posting stories and stuff, so yeah, I'm easy to find. Awesome. Well, you can follow our show at the hashtag Matt Boosties, B-double-O-S-T-I-E-S on Twitter. That's where you can find show links, show notes, ways to get into our listener Discord, amongst other things. You can find me at MilesOfGrey.

You can find me at Jack underscore O'Brien. And that's going to do it. Another one in the books. Another one. And we'll be back next week. We'll see what happens with Team USA. Will the glory continue? I think so. All right. We'll be back next week. We'll see what happens with Team USA. Will the glory continue? I think so.

All right. We'll see you next time. I said see you next team next time. See you next team. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. I'm Carrie Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry.

Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry, Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. I'm Carrie Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry, Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and

Reese have changed the way we consume women's basketball. And on this new season, we'll cover all things sports and culture. Listen to Naked Sports on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio apps, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by Diet Coke. What happens when a professional football player's career ends and the applause fades and the screaming fans move on? I am going to share my journey of how I went from Christianity to now a Hebrew Israelite. For some former NFL players, a new faith provides answers. You mix homesteading with guns and church. Voila!

You got straightway. He tried to save everybody. Listen to Spiraled on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.