The Daily Zeitgeist - MJGMB #161: We Inherit the Playoff Beef with Justin Spears

Episode Date: April 16, 2025

Jack and Jabari were pleased to be joined by ESPN's Justin Spears for today's playoff discussion. The trio broke down matchup expectations and potential upset candidates!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What's up everyone, it's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the king of spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that. We're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season from DJ's mock drafts to my top one on one free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday, keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeart radio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The championship is back in the bay for the first time in 40 years. On the new limited podcast series, Dub Dynasty, we hear from head coach Steve Kerr on how Steph Curry almost never even joined the Warriors. In fact, I thought we had a draft date deal to end up getting him to Phoenix. For the entire behind the scenes story of Golden State's incredible 10 year run,

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Listen to Hasta Abajo on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Well, well, well, it's playoff time, baby. We got the matchups. We're recording this before the playing games, so we don't know all the matchups. We do know generally where things are going to fall.

We're going to talk about that. We're going to talk about the NBA's top 10 plays of the week with journalist and radio host Justin Spears on today's episode. I'm Jack O'Brien and I'm Jabari in for Miles. And this is Miles and Jack and sometimes Jabari. We all got mad boosties. we all got mad boosties, yuck! 18 has been secured. The Celtics are NBA champions. Over the double team.

Justin, welcome to the show. Man, let's roll baby. Let's roll. You are a Tucsonan? Yes sir, you got it right. You're from Tucson. My note for Tucson? Tucsonian, Tucsonian, I don't know. It don't sound right Jack. It sounds, it's cleaner.

Even though it's adding syllables, it's cleaner. You're adding to it. I'm going Timberlake on you. Make it the very Facebook, it's cleaner. You're adding to it. I'm going, I'm going Timberlake on you. Make it the very Facebook. It's cleaner. Oh, got it. Anyways, you are from Tucson. You are a Lakers fan based on your t-shirt. Yes, sir. The Los Angeles Lakers. The Los Angeles Lakers. I'm a diehard Lakers fan. So kind of quick background here. My family's originally from Huntington Beach, California. So I come from Orange County. Those are my connections. So I'm an LA sports fan, but we moved to Tucson when I was two years old. So I claim Tucson. I am a Tucsonan or Tucsonian if you're Jack. And I love this

city. But yes, I am a Die Hard Lakers fan. Well, Orange County Union, originally, but yes. All right, well, we're gonna get into a bit of a playoff, post-season preview, but first we got a little, we got a little business to take care of because there've been some upsets a little closer to your current home. The Suns have fired Coach Bud, former Hawks coach, former Bucks coach,

less success in this stop on his journey. So the Suns ended up 10 games under 500. I just wanted to highlight something that, so they fired Frank Vogel last year after finishing 16 games over 500. So that's where the expectations were heading into this season was that 16 games over 500 is unacceptably bad. They ended up 10 games under 500. So 26 games worse than the mark that they viewed as unacceptable.

So not a great year for the Suns. I mean, I don't think they were alone necessarily in coming in with much higher expectations than what they ended up at this year. I think a lot of people were like, I think they're going to be good. They've got Kevin Durant. You heard about this guy, Devin Booker, and they were not. They were pretty middling. What are you guys' thoughts. So I think the Phoenix Sun's experiment under Matt Ishbia has been a complete failure. Now, I will give him some grace here, because if you look at the previous ownership with Robert Sarver, he was a very frugal man. He was a man that did not swing for the fences,

a man that did not bring these bigger names to Phoenix. Did they have some success with Sarver? Sure. But this guy, Matt Ishbia comes in and I think what, less than a week on the job, he makes the trade for Kevin Durant. And so then you're like, okay, whoa, you got your superstar, you pair them up with Devin Booker. Let's see if they can make magic happen. And then he got new owner syndrome.

He got a little too crazy. And then he decided, well, wait, hold on, if I can get Kevin Durant, let me get Bradley Beal and let me trade for him. Oh, wait, he's got a no trade clause? It's a big gamble. I don't care. He's still Bradley Beal.

He's still a bucket. And they sold their soul to the devil because they wanted to win an NBA championship. And unfortunately for Phoenix, they gave up way too much of their future, right? They got rid of DeAndre Aiden, who was the number one overall pick in that trade with Portland. They got rid of Cam Johnson, Mikhail Bridges. It was like all the pieces that they built up to get to the NBA finals in 2021. They just got rid of them because they wanted the splashy names. And on top of that, those splashy names, when they don't work out,

when they have a no trade clause, it makes it so difficult. And they made their bet. This is what they had to deal with. And they tried to make that trade for Jimmy Butler. And I remember a lot of people were like, but wait, Jimmy Butler's contract, they're going to have to give him a ton of money. Well, look how it turned out for a team like the Golden State Warriors. They're enjoying Jimmy Butler right now. So it's just been a colossal disappointment in Phoenix.

I feel bad for Devin Booker because he's kind of been that franchise player and the guy that's been through it all since day one. But he definitely deserves better. And I'm not really sure what's next for Phoenix. I'm not surprised that they fired Mike Budenholzer, but also at the same time, like they're about to have their fourth head coach in as many seasons. And I know the head coach is usually the scapegoat here,

but you can't pin all of this on Mike Budenholzer. But with that being said, the culture was also really bad too. They didn't talk to each other during pregame warmups. It just got off the rails so fast. And it's so crazy to think that this is also the same team that started off the year eight and one. I think they're like one of three teams. They're one of three teams in NBA history

to start the season eight and one and not make the playoffs. So it was just a disappointment, a colossal failure. Like I said, and I think that this will probably go down as the most disappointing season and Phoenix Sun's history. And what's also so crazy too, and I'll just wrap it up here is Kevin, it's not like Kevin Durant played bad.

Like Kevin Durant still played at an all-star level and still showed that he's still one of the premier players in this league. It's just the Phoenix Suns right now, they need to hit the reset button. They need to blow this whole thing up and that could also mean trading Devin Booker away. Doesn't selling your soul to the devil usually like get you something good? Yeah, I was going to say, don't you get something positive? Yeah, usually you get a championship. Like for instance, I'm a big football guy, right? Like I look at what the LA Rams did, the Cronkite family making all those trades, they got a Super Bowl

out of the deal. They're okay with that. Teams do that to sacrifice for that one championship in Phoenix being a desperate franchise that they are team that's just hungry for a championship. Matt Ishbia came in thought, okay, I'm a mover and shaker. I'm going to come in and make these deals. And we're going to get this thing popping. And it completely blew up in their face and we'll see if Matt Ishby can learn from his mistakes.

It definitely felt like a kid with a credit card situation. You know what I mean? Where you get your first credit card, you know, you're trying to be responsible at first. You know, you pull off that KD deal, that's incredible. But then you start going, well, I mean, you know, I've got a month. And then you max it out on a foolish,

foolish situation, and I'm not going to call it a purchase, you know, given that we're speaking about athletes, but you know, you purchased that contract and it didn't quite work out. Just quickly before you get off of this, Jack, I'm interested in Justin. You said it might end up in them trading Devin Booker. What's your gut tell you given you're here in the state? You're talking to the fans. You're talking to, I'm sure, people that are surrounding the new organization,

what's your gut tell you? Well, the Phoenix Suns right now, I feel like are in the fork of the road right now because what's Kevin Durant going to do? Well, first and foremost, what are they going to do at head coach? Who are they hiring? I feel like this hire could be very important for Phoenix's future because let's say it's a guy that Kevin Durant does not want well do you trade KD to a place like Dallas and pair him up with Kyrie Irving and Anthony Davis do you maybe send him to dare I say Oklahoma

City I would I love the idea with all the picks that they have like the Phoenix Sun saying you know what let's hit the reset button let's's get some picks back. Let's get a bright future. And Kevin Durant doesn't really have a home, right? When you think about his, his NBA tenure, like which team could really grab onto Kevin Durant? Yeah, he won two championships, but he also joined the dynasty that was already there with the splash brothers and Draymond Green. So I think it would be cool to see Kevin Durant maybe go back to Oklahoma City and be paired up

with those superstars and what they got going on here. And Devin Booker could also get into a position now where he's like, OK, I'm in the prime of my career right now. I'm playing at an all-star level. Do I really want to go through the rebuild again? I was already a part of my career right now. I'm playing at an all-star level. Do I really wanna go through the rebuild again? I was already a part of the rebuild as an early player. I don't wanna go through this again. Get me to another situation to where I could be

Devin Booker and we could be contending for championships. So I feel like this is probably gonna be a very important summer for the Phoenix Suns. And it could determine, are they gonna run it back with the couple superstars that they have or are they going to blow this whole thing up and start from scratch? We'll see.

Yeah. It's a, it's a bar. I mean, Dallas kind of makes sense to me. They need to do something. And then as far as OKC and I've also heard Houston tossed around as potential KD destinations. I think, you know, if OKC goes out in the second round again, like then I feel like you might see them think about,

okay, we need like somebody who's just a walking bucket or something like that. But, you know, if they make it to the finals or win the championship, that would be a strange move. Can I ask you guys this though? What do you guys think about just the whole coaching situation around Kevin Durant over the last few years? Because if you look at the trend, he's gotten coaches fired.

Yeah. What do you guys make of that? Because I do think that Kevin Durant is an incredible player, but also at the same time, there is that narrative that he's kind of chasing off coaches. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. It feels like he has also been given some input into the team that gets built around him because he keeps ending up in these situations that are, I feel like an older model of team that's like superstar based and, you know,

maxed out at the top and then like, they just don't have enough depth to compete. So I kind of blame that more than anything having to do with the coaches. Although like I just don't know enough to know like are they asking him before they make those decisions about like who to hire and then who to fire. Yeah. But I mean I certainly don't think they made smart decisions. Like I don't think it was smart to fire Vogel after last year, but you know, it's like Phoenix has been burning through coaches since before Katie got there. So, um, yeah, that's true. Fair point. You know,

just really quickly on that, I will just say six or seven years ago, I remember Katie saying that he understood why people wouldn't necessarily want to play with or alongside LeBron because it's a toxic environment. Regardless of whether Phoenix has done, you know, was already in this spiral before him, he himself has been in four different situations, or three or four different situations and had a new coach or multiple coaches,

you know, at each stop. At a certain point, I do wonder how long the juice will be worth the squeeze. Absolutely. Yeah. I don't know, but I love Katie, so I don't, I don't want to. Oh no. All-time player. Yeah. Legend.

It's nothing personal. If you, if you were to say like, hey, if the Lakers could foolishly swing for the fences and get him, I would foolishly tell you, yeah, go ahead and do it in the off season. Because yes, but you know. It comes- One of the greatest scores of all time, man. All right. Well, New Orleans got rid of David Griffin, seven years of, you know, relative futility.

But I mean, very, pretty recently, everybody was like the future's bright for this team. So, I mean, it's just a, a vulnerable season this year due to health reasons and just a lot of things not, not coming together. Um, so I'm not, I don't have too much on that one. I do just want to keep talking about the Luca trade for the rest of my life. So if we can move on to that, but, um, anything you guys want to talk about with the Pels?

I get the feeling that Zion is gone this summer. I get the feeling that they're going to go ahead and press reset and try to start over. I would love to see him in Miami or one of those places that puts an emphasis on conditioning and health. That could be fun. All right. Dallas reportedly held an invite only no recording devices allowed press conference with a handful of selected journalists today. I still am like trying to wrap my head around the Luca trade.

I mean, I think I really need this is just my plea to journalists out there. I need someone to write a book on this trade, like an entire book on the decision and how it came about because like there's been reporting now that, you know, what, when, when the trade was first announced, Nico was like, it's on me. And people took that to be like, so it was just like, he was the only one who knew because otherwise it doesn't make sense that anybody heard that and didn't like throw their body in front of it. But now it seems like the whole,

like people in the organization knew for at least an hour before it was announced. Like they, they knew that this was happening. There's this, there's a book called the wisdom of crowds that spends like a whole section on the challenger decision, like the, you know, NASA disasters, NASA launch. um, and like how that, because they actually like knew it was very possible. Like they knew there was a problem with the O rings, which was exactly what caused the explosion and there were people inside the organization being like, what are you talking about?

We absolutely can't launch today. And like, they just got overruled and it's a fascinating read. Like I need somebody to do that shoe leather reporting on just like what happened here, because I still, like that literally we were, before you got on Justin, we were talking about our best guess as to what happened. And I was speculating either like a liar,

liar style birthday wish that actually, you know, like a child in the Los Angeles area, just being like, I wish Luca was Laker like on that day. And it just like came true or, you know, Jabari has long health that you want to give your theory? Well, it's funny. Like when Justin said, soldier sold to the devil, I was like, wait a second, what the... I had just mentioned this to Jack that I jokingly said that Dr. Busch, the late great Dr. Busch must have sold his soul to the devil simply because of all of the different ways we have been very fortunate since the 80s and on, you know, from the 80s and on. And that would have been worth it. That would have been a good purchase. One soul for the

type of success that the Lakers have had over the past four decades. Well worth it, yeah, that's, that's a good purchase. I don't put it past Matt Ishbia to have sold his soul for, uh, for the, this son's team. Um, but yeah, my conspiracy theory is that Dallas has their site set on relocating, getting out of Dallas and going to Las Vegas. Yeah. I would love to see the NBA back in Las Vegas. I'd love to see the NBA back in Seattle.

I've always said those two markets, put teams there, get the Pelicans out of the freaking Western Conference, get the Grizzlies out of the Western Conference. And when you talk about those parts of the country, they have colleges that are in the SEC. Do you know what the E stands for in SEC? Eastern. It's a southeastern part of the United States. So get Memphis, get New Orleans, put them in the Eastern conference, put Minnesota in the, in the Eastern conference. We need teams in Seattle and Las Vegas. And I think my conspiracy theory that the Dallas Mavericks are completely tanking everything because they want to get to Las Vegas. And honestly, I just think that this is one of the most dumbest trades I have ever seen in NBA history. And what's so crazy is like the other side of this trade is Anthony Davis, like an all-time

defensive player, like an all-time great, but it goes to show how stupid it is for the Mavericks to make this trade. And not only is it stupid for them to trade away 25 year old Luca Donchich, but the fact that like you didn't even shop him around, you just had this back door deal with the Lakers, with the Lakers of all teams, right? It's not like you traded him to like the Knicks or some other random team. You traded him to the Lakers where before that trade, man, their future looked dark in the post LeLeBron era.

And now we got a good dodgeage. Yeah. This is a Lakers fan saying all this, by the way. It's the truth. As only a Lakers fan can be that infuriating. It's like, can you believe how lucky we've been? Can you believe? But like Dallas is, so the top media markets in the United States, New York's

one, LA is two, Chicago's three, Dallas, Fort Worth is number four. It would be by far the biggest media market to not have an NBA team. Like the next would be, I guess Tampa at number 11, but I mean they can root for the Heat. So Seattle's at number 13, but yeah I mean Dallas is a massive media market. It doesn't make sense to not have an NBA team there. And that's why I, to be honest with you, I think if the NBA ever approved them moving them to Vegas, it would come with an expansion franchise right back there. I don't think, I don't know any any of it's going to take place.

But, you know, to that point, I don't think they're going to be just vacated in the Dallas market simply because, you know, you know, these owners don't seem to want to seem to want to be there. Yeah. All right. Let's take a quick break. We'll come back. We'll talk about the top 10 plays of the year and take a look at some matchups and just overall predictions. Any any of these teams that we think are going to do better, worse than what people are expecting.

We'll be right back. What's up everyone, it's Greg Rosenthal, and I'm teaming up with the king of spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that. We're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJ's mock drafts to my top 101 free agents,

we'll have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday, keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The championship is back in the Bay for the first time in 40 years. On the new limited podcast series, Dub Dynasty, we hear from head coach Steve Kerr on how Steph Curry almost never even joined the Warriors.

In fact, I thought we had a draft date deal to end up getting him to Phoenix. For the entire behind the scenes story of Golden State's incredible 10 year run, listen to Dub Dynasty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ever wonder what it would be like to be mentored by today's top business leaders? My podcast, This Is Working, can help with that. Here's some advice from Jamie Dimon, the CEO of JPMorgan Chase, on standing out from the leadership crowd. Develop your EQ. A lot of people have plenty of brains, but EQ is do you trust me? Do I communicate well? You know, when you walk in a room, do people feel good you're there? Are you responsive to people? Do people know you have a heart?

Develop the team, develop the people, create a system of trust, and it works over time. I'm Dan Roth, LinkedIn's editor in chief. On my podcast, This Is Working, leaders like Jamie Dimon, Mark Cuban, and Richard Branson share strategies for success and the real lessons that have shaped them. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And I'm going to help you keep up with the speed of the game and the athletes that play it. So well, you may even be able to throw up the fastest slapper. If you're an old or new fan looking to learn more about your favorite players or coaches and hear about their journeys and processes to success, this podcast is an exciting and invaluable resource for anyone interested in the complexities of excellence on the softball diamond.

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we have an entire sequence that you guys aren't going to love, but I think they did a good job. They've got Jaws double three sixties, which that was the crazy first thing I was checking for was like, he hasn't done that in a game since, right? It was just that one game where he just decided, made up a shot that nobody had ever done before. Situational greatness. He could just do it. Improvised that and was like, I'm doing that tonight. So they have both of those at number two. They've got a couple of like monster dunks on people. So they have Jaws double 360s at one spot and then they have Jokic going full court

taking up two separate. So two full court shots from Jokic. They've got Tray's game winner and then at number one they have the whole final sequence of that Bulls versus Lakers game where the Lakers are up by five inbounding the ball under the Bulls basket. The ball. Yeah, with the ball. In LeBron's hands. In the hands of the like basketball computer, greatest decision maker of all time. I will say Brian, the editor made a really good point. They did miss that Jokic pass where it just like passed. He just flicked it over his shoulder from the top of the three point line and Brooke Lopez was it just for Aaron Gordon. Oh, maybe. So, well somebody was in between and just

was looked ridiculous. Yeah. They were like, I'd say that would be my big omission, but overall a fun look back at the year. Any plays that jump out at you guys or anything you think they should have given a spot to? Well, I definitely want to double down on that Jokic pass. And I have some buddies who are Denver Nuggets fans and they are pretty much like, yeah, Jokic does that like on a nightly basis. He does that all the time. It's just a lot of those passes don't get shown. And I'm like, I don't know, man, I've never seen a pass like that.

Like Jokic is, in my opinion, the best passing big man of all time. He's definitely carving out a legacy that will go down as one of the all time greats. But yeah, honestly, that Jokic pass, I'm glad you brought that up because that was one of the craziest plays I've seen all year. Yeah, it was a blast. They have a dime from one of the players in the Warriors where he saves it as the, as

he's running out of bounds and like saves it behind his back all the way down the court to a streaking teammate who dunks it. I forget who it is. But they also have, right up there with the two-jaw 360s, they have that Steph kind of spinning between two players and then like kind of throwing it in off balance, like falling from the wing. And it's just like a weird direction that again, the analysis that I saw of Steph early on where someone said Steph's got a demon, that's all still jumps out to me.

This is the podcast where we just give supernatural explanations to NBA success. But that Jokic pass, just like sometimes when he throws passes, like the ball seems to move like slower, like in slow motion, but like the players just like can't catch up to it. And so it's really strange. So here's what we know. We don't know the plans. We know OK season, the one seed, and we're feeling pretty good about them

against any eight seed. The Rockets are number two. They are being people are expecting Golden State to win their playing game. And I think people are kind of penciling in Golden State to beat Houston. Or that's kind of the energy that that I'm picking up, that is just a bad matchup. And the main thing people are pointing to, I think, is just Houston's inexperienced in the postseason. I feel like, I don't know, the past few postseasons, there's been a couple teams who we discounted because they lacked experience.

Like Minnesota last year, I think Memphis the year before. I still do think Golden State probably beats them in a series if the Warriors win in the play-in. But I think it's because both Memphis and Minnesota in those series had somebody who could get a bucket at the end of the game, which you need. And I feel like Houston doesn't have that. So that that would probably be the the reason that I don't see them having a lot of success in the postseason at the at this stage. But I also wouldn't be shocked if they just like, you know, one by 10, like four times against Golden State.

Not like a sweep, but you know, if you just win by enough and play crazy enough defense like they've been known to do, then it doesn't matter if you can't get a bucket in the last second. But what are you guys' thoughts on Houston's postseason prospects? Man, very young. And like you said, they're inexperienced. They don't have the playoff experience, but they do have a really good coach that's also been at this level too, and Eme Odoka. So I think Eme Odoka in his second act in the NBA

after that whole mess with Boston, it's been really fun to watch. I really liked the Seusser Rockets. I liked the young talent they have, but they kind of give me the Oklahoma City vibes from 2007, 2008, where it's like they got the talent. They have a good coach, but maybe just give them another year or two,

let them add some more pieces, and then they'll be in this position. I think they've drafted well. I give their front office a ton of credit with the young players that they've added but now you're going up against a franchise that has the same coach, the same star player and his kind of right-hand buddy outside of Clay Thompson and Draymond Green and then you add in the ultimate competitor that is Jimmy Butler and Jimmy Butler at the trade deadline, he was kind of

viewed as a toxic character, right? Like who, what team is going to add a player like Jimmy Butler for how he treated Miami in the ending stages of his career there? And then you got to give him that crazy contract. Well, ever since the Golden State Warriors have added Jimmy Butler, they've had one of the better records in the NBA. And we are talking about them at Jabari. We talk about how the Lakers are so damn lucky. I mean, the Lakers are like one basket away from playing against the Golden State Warriors in this three, six matchup. So I'm counting my lucky stars as a Lakers guy that they don't got to play Golden State in that first round. This is a team that is a dynasty that's probably on the tail end of their run,

but they've got the championship pedigree. And that's why I'm probably gonna go with Golden State in six. Yeah, look, just to echo this, and I mentioned this to Jack before the show, Golden State's the one team I actually didn't want to face, especially in a first round matchup. I don't want to see a fresh Steph,

a fresh and hungry Jimmy and all of those guys executing like crazy in a first round, a first round matchup. I do think Houston can make it interesting, but it's tough and it sucks because Houston fought all, you know, fought all year. They earned that, you know, that, you know, that second seed and you know, for their troubles, it could very well wind up being, you know, a little bit of a first round buzzsaw. Yeah, we'll see. But you know, who knows if Golden State Golden State's been able to lose

inexplicable games that they should have wanted to win. You know, if Harrison, if Harrison Barnes doesn't hit that game winner with a depleted Spurs team down the stretch of the season, you know, it's a different conversation. All right. Lakers Wol wolves, you guys, I'm pretty sure I know who you're taking. So Minnesota makes it through to the second round. And then Clippers, Nuggets. Clippers are the hottest team in the NBA right now. They're 15 and two to finish the season. Something I always talk about is like two years ago, you know, Kawhi for one playoff game was the best player in the season. Something I always talk about is like two years ago, you know, Kawhi for one playoff game was the best player in the NBA and then he got hurt. And for the past two years, everybody's just been like, yeah, Kawhi will never not be hurt. And that's been true for the

past couple of years, but he's looking strong, Harden is looking good. I don't know. I could see the Clippers making making some noise and upsetting some Lakers fans along the way. We'll see. But what are you guys' thoughts on the Nuggets Clippers? I do want to give credit where credit is due. James Harden has played 79 games this season, right? Like James Harden was a guy that wasn't playing nearly games this season, right? Like James Harden was a guy that wasn't playing nearly that many games and he's been around and he's been effective as not only a scorer averaging just under 23 points per game,

but I think he's averaging like nearly nine assists per game too. So James Harden, like you said, Jack, he's playing some really good basketball right now. I just feel bad for our guy, Lakers legend, Ivica Zubats, cause he's got to go up against that. Best of luck, brother. I think that the Denver Nuggets, I think Clippers, they'll make it interesting. They might win a game or two, but I think the Nuggets will figure it out.

Oh, so you're saying Nuggets in five or six? I'll say Nuggets in about five or six. Yeah. Okay. I thought I was gonna be the only one because as well as the Clippers have played, and I'm not gonna take anything away from them, I'm not even gonna do the little brother thing. They have played well, and to be honest with you, I don't wanna face them in the first round either.

I still think they don't have any answer whatsoever for Jokic. And as well as Zubac has been playing, and he has been playing well, I think over the course of the series, you know, that damn Terminator is going to wear him down. Okay. Because I have heard Kawhi described as Terminator 2. 2019 he was. Terminator versus Terminator is Terminator 2 Judgment Day and that's one of the best movies of all time. So I think either way,

all we're talking about is there's going to be a great season here. All right. Any team in the West that you guys think is going to make a deeper run than people are expecting? Oh man. Deeper run that people are expecting. I mean, I would say the Lakers, but I feel like the Lakers are expected to represent the West in the NBA finals. I think that this is the year the Lakers, and I know I'm biased, but I look at the addition of Luca, I look at how that's matched up with LeBron. I did have some concerns with the front court with guys like Jackson Hayes and others, and that could be a concern later on in the postseason, but they've actually performed better than I thought. I'm curious to see how Rui Achaimora plays in the postseason, but they've actually performed better than I thought.

I'm curious to see how Rui Acheimora plays in this postseason with the front court matchups they got. But yeah, I'll probably say the Lakers and probably the Nuggets just, I mean, they're the number four seed. They've won a championship before in a seven game series. It's tough to bet against the Oakage. So I'd say probably the West,

I'd go with Denver or the Lakers. Dang. All right. Just piggybacking, you know where I stand against the Oak kids. So I'd say probably the West, I'd go with, uh, with Denver or the Lakers. Dang. All right. Just piggybacking you know where I stand on the Lakers. I think that they, they can and probably will make a deep run, but if they don't, the wild, my wild card for this postseason is still going to be the Golden State Warriors. I think if the Warriors, you know, you know get that seven and they beat Houston. Yes, I recognize where that would line them up next.

I think a hot Warriors team is the team that I just would personally like to avoid. Yeah, that makes sense. And out East is basically, I mean, so on this podcast, we support the league versus Celtics is kind of how I think about it. And but I do think it's probably going to be the Celtics again coming out of the East.

Well, what do we think? Anybody able to make me feel better and say that there's another team that has a good shot? I mean, I guess the Cavs would be the obvious one. Sixty four and eighteen, you know, best offensive rating in the, in the league this year. But do you guys think they have a legit shot at beating the Celtics? I think they do. Now, I do think that, you know, we're talking about conspiracy theories earlier. I think that this crazy Luca trade is just pairing up Lakers versus Celtics, the old

classic rivalry in the NBA championship. But I think, honestly, outside of Boston, the one team that I think could really go far and maybe even get to the NBA finals, the Milwaukee Bucks at the number five spot. Now I know, Dane dealing with his whole thing, like that's a tremendous loss, right? Like that's big time there. But you still got Giannis as one of the top big men in basketball right now. I still think that the Bucs, they have that championship pedigree. I still think they can go far.

I'm curious to see how that matchup's going to go with Indiana. And a team that I don't think is going to, say, go far, like go to the NBA finals, but I could see them winning a playoff series. How about those Detroit Pistons turn things around, man? They're playing against the Knicks and Tom Thibodeau is solid coach.

I love the Knicks and the pieces that they have, but the Detroit Pistons have been one of my favorite stories in the NBA this season. This was a team that was riding one of the worst, if not the worst losing streaks in NBA history. Like they were telling fans, hey, if the Pistons win, we're giving you free food. And then they proceeded to drop 28 straight games.

Like that is the ultimate tease, but hey, great marketing for whatever food company that was. Right. But the Pistons, their turnaround, Cade Cunningham, I like this team a lot. And I think, honestly, this is kind of like just the beginning stages for them.

I think over the next couple of years, they're going to add some pieces. And we're going to see the Pistons back to being a force in the East. I'm right there with you with Detroit. I think they're going to be solid. I don't necessarily know that it's going to happen this year. But to your point, shout out to Cade. shout out to Jamie Bickerstaff, former coach of

the year. You know, he goes there and absolutely turns things around in the very first year. It would have been a bad look for him if he hadn't, you know, the Cavs had a huge turnaround after he left there, but then he turned it around. So, you know, it's I guess it's a statement about who was coaching Detroit last year. So shout out to Monty. Shout out legend at the bank. Jack, to answer your question just directly, the team that I hope comes out is the Cavs. The team I think is going to come out is the Celtics. The team I really want to come out deep down inside is exactly where where Justin just went. I want the Bucs. I want, you know, Yannis over the last 15 to 20 games has been absolutely incredible.

I don't know if you guys had a chance to watch a lot of Bucs action. I did. He is truly an offensive hub in a way that we haven't seen him before. Double digit assists, if I'm not mistaken, almost averaging that over the last like 15 or so games. And the word on the street is today, they may actually be back during this series. So while I don't I don't want them to like just like throw everything on him when he gets back. Look, if they could find a way to get through this first round matchup and Dane gets going and Janis is still playing the way that he's dominant

on both sides of the ball, even though Doc Rivers is their coach, I think it's a possibility. Even though. Do we think we're past the era of best player, whoever has the best player, you're gonna just inherently, you should put your money on that team? Because that feels like where we're going in a lot of these,

but it also feels like that hasn't always been the case in the past few years. Do you think that things have changed or you still think that's a good rule of thumb for the post-season? I think that things have changed. Like I'm not gonna bet against LeBron James in a seven game series, right?

Or some of these other elite players like Nikola Jokic are some of the best. But if you look at the past champions, it kind of reminds me a little bit of the college basketball model, right? Like when John Calipari at Kentucky, he tried to load his team with all of these one and dons. And he thought that that was the formula

to win a championship. Meanwhile, you had Villanova, all these other teams that prioritized veteran players and mature players and experienced guys that you can rely on in the tournament. They were players that were with programs for several years. They built up that championship culture brick by brick. You look at the Boston Celtics. How many times have they been deep into the playoffs? Heck, they were in the NBA finals and lost to mean, how many times have they been deep into the playoffs?

Heck, they were in the NBA finals and lost to the Golden State Warriors, but they didn't, going back to our point here with the selling our soul to the devil, they didn't trade away all of those pieces. They continued to develop them and got them better and eventually they were able to break through and win an NBA championship.

The Golden State Warriors in their dynasty, yeah, they added Kevin Durant during those couple of years, but for the most part, all of those guys on that team were all homegrown players, guys that were drafted and selected by the Golden State Warriors. So I think there's something to be said about having a culture and developing a championship team over time. And I feel like you're starting to see that with teams like Oklahoma City and Houston and some of these others in the NBA. So it definitely helps having a premier superstar player on your team,

a guy that is one of the faces of the league. But I think having that depth and having a good roster, having a good rotation, I think that's definitely valuable. And we've seen in recent years that that matters. And just to add to that, I think it's specifically the way the game is played now. More motion, more ball movement, more body movement, less one-on-one isolation,

less like of just like either one-on-one isolation or like two man action, more complex schemes. And all of a sudden, while yes, you still want to have the best player in the series, I don't know if it's as much of an impact, especially if it's relatively close around, you know, around that player.

Yeah, yeah. All right, let's take a quick break. We'll come back and we will do the rapid fire round of questioning the fastest, nastiest segment in basketball podcasting. We'll be right back. What's up everyone. It's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the king of spring, Daniel Jeremiah. He requires me to say that we're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents. The only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season from DJs mock drafts to my top one

on one free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday, keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the I heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The championship is back in the Bay for the first time in 40 years. On the new limited podcast series, Dub Dynasty, we hear from head coach Steve Kerr on how Steph Curry almost never even joined the Warriors. In fact, I thought we had a draft date deal

to end up getting him to Phoenix. For the entire behind the scenes story of Golden State's incredible 10 year run, listen to Dubb Dynasty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ever wonder what it would be like to be mentored by today's top business leaders? My podcast, This Is Working, can help with that. Here's some advice from Jamie Dimon, the CEO of JPMorgan Chase, on standing out from the leadership crowd. Develop your EQ. A lot of people have plenty of brains, but EQ is do you trust me? Do I communicate well? You know, when you walk in a room, do people feel good you're there? Are you responsive to people? Do people know you have a heart?

Develop the team, develop the people, create a system of trust, and it works over time. I'm Dan Roth, LinkedIn's editor-in-chief. On my podcast, This Is Working, leaders like Jamie Dimon, Mark Cuban, and Richard Branson share strategies for success and the real lessons that have shaped them. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up, y'all? I'm A.J. Andrews, pro softball player, sports analyst, and the first woman to win a Rawlings Gold Glove. Apple Podcasts for wherever you get your podcasts. And I'm going to help you keep up with the speed of the game and the athletes that play it. So well, you may even be able to throw up the fastest slapper. If you're an old or new fan looking to learn more about your favorite players or coaches and hear about their journeys and processes to success, this podcast is an exciting and invaluable resource for anyone interested in the complexities of excellence on the softball diamond. Softball is a game of failure and pressure situations. But lucky for all

the fabulous softball players and fans, pressure makes diamonds. And it's time to drop some bombs and diamonds on and off the Softball Diamond. Dropping Diamonds with AJ Andrews is an athletes' unlimited softball league production in partnership with iHeart Women's Sports and Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to Dropping Diamonds with AJ Andrews on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. And we're back and Justin, Justin, Justin, you have, all right, should we just scrap this part? Justin, you have. All right, should we just scrap this part?

Actually there's no way, no way this guy's ready for this. This is the rapid fire round of questioning. You've just wandered into the shooting gallery. There's going to be bullets pinging around whizzing past your ear. Let's do it. So you're going to want to get in an athletic position and just be ready. We're going to be firing some questions at you and you're just going to fire them back. We're going to keep this ball moving.

We're going to keep the ball fizzing around the perimeter. Do you think you're ready? Let's do it. I hope so. Just note, if you delay or allow one of us to delay in between, we will be rude to you. We will let you know that this is your fault. Because you are getting an EP credit on this particular episode, so get this together.

All right. Let me lock in. You ready? Let's do it. Brian, start the clock! My kids are in the next room and they think I'm verbally abusing somebody. All right.

Jabari, why don't you kick us off? All right, more dominant player. Yokich back in Shaq's era or Shaq in this current era. Yokich back in Shaq's era. Oh, Yokich's game is transcendent. It could be in any era at any time. Give me Yokich. All right.

We have a new king of top selling NBA jerseys. I want you to guess who it is. Wemba Yama. Incorrect. Sir. Not even the top five. Yeah. Wow. Although he's, so he's that, he's at number six

and that did make me want like, you don't see a lot of Wemba Yama jerseys in the wild. It feels like, yeah, you have a long name and you need to like, I feel like it only makes sense on a skinny, like tall person, you know, like it does. Like I feel like you think it works better. Yeah. Big back.

Yeah. Yeah. For the full name. Yep. This one changed mid yeah. For the full name. Yep. This one changed mid-season. I'll say Justin. New leader mid-season. New leader mid-season.

Yes. Let's go with Luca. You got it. Yeah. We're getting on chitch. There it is. Any of these, so Luca number one, Steph number two, LeBron number three,

Jason Tatum number four. That one surprised me a little bit two, LeBron number three, Jason Tatum number four. That one surprised me a little bit. I don't see a lot of Jason Tatum. Maybe it's just because when you move to Boston, they just give you one of those. It's like at the airport in Hawaii, you get a lay-in. At the airport there, you just get a Tatum jersey. put this on. Jalen Brunson number five, Wemba Yama six, Anthony Edwards seven, Ja number eight, Shea number nine, Jokic ten, Janis eleven, Lamello ball at number 12, then KD Booker 13-14, then Jalen Brown at 15. And any that jump out to you guys as surprising? Any that you thought would be there that aren't?

Oh man. Well, he brought up LaMelo Ball. The first thing I thought of was, so last summer I was at a basketball camp for kids and I asked all the kids there, like, all right guys, so when I say Mello, who do you guys think I'm talking about? And every single one of them said LaMelo ball. And it made me feel so old because I'm like Carmelo Anthony is not old. Right. And he is the real Mellow. He's the real Mellow. As far as you didn't mention a Kawhi Leonard, did you? No, Kawhi's not on there. Not on

there. Interesting. Because I feel like that would be up there. Like he's still a big time player, right? But maybe he's so boring that nobody wants to buy his jersey or James Harden or Kyrie Irving. I think it's team dependent. Like I bet who I was there when he was with the Raptors. But like now I just feel like not a lot of not a lot of Clippers jerseys out there. Um, even in the greater Los Angeles area.

Um, it's because the 30,000 Clippers fans have already bought one prior to now. So then that's it. Right. It's also another one I'm surprised because us Lakers fans, we love this guy, Austin Reeves. You thought, you thought he'd crack the top 15? I thought like he would be one of those sneaky guys that just got up there because he's a fan favorite. Let them make a deep run with him playing well this year. I bet you he'll jump in that time. It's like somewhere in that range of 15 to 20. Yeah. All right. Keeping it going really quickly. Lakers

trivia for you. All-time franchise leader in rebounds. Who do you think is that leader for the league? Oh man. It's probably somebody obscure like George Mike in. It is not. It is not. I chose this for a specific reason. Will Chamberlain.

He is number five. Cause this is Lakers that they got. This is rebounds they got while playing for the while playing with the Lakers uniform. Is it not Palgasol? No. It's not Shaquille O'Neal. It is not. He is number six. Wow. Not Kareem. He's number two. Oh my goodness. Lamar Odom. Is it? I got you. It is Elgin Baylor. Elgin Baylor 11,463 for him to do that as a guard Yeah, that's why I mean, yeah, there's a lot of guards on like Kobe is number three

But it's just I think it's partially a testament to like who played the most games as a Laker But yeah magic number four AC green speaking of who played the most games for AC Green, speaking of who played the most games. Shout out. I was, my guess was going to be Vern Mickelson, who comes in at number seven, but. That was right on the tip of my tongue. It was right off.

It was a little bit off. All right. And finally, you have the ability to pick any former Lakers legend to make a run with this current squad. Who are you taking? Kobe Bryant, man. Come on now. Not going to take a center. Like it doesn't matter that we don't have any bigs. I get it. I get it. 100%. But I had to throw that out there. It's like, yeah,

we need a big. Yeah, you do need a big. I do worry about the hack shack later on in games. So it and shack, honestly. Yeah, like I said, he's dominant, but the free throws is what concerns me. Yeah, man, I'm going to go with Kobe Bryant, man, because even in games where he's not scoring, he still figures out ways to make winning plays. And when you need a bucket in clutch time, it's always going to be Kobe Bryant.

So I'm biased. But is that a lead for the Lakers? No, actually, you know what? That's true. Yeah, LeBron and Luca, they got two bucket getters. Luca can set him up. Hey, back big, let's go. That is very true. But also, Kobe was also a really good defender too. And that's kind of the knock on Luca, especially last year in the NBA finals going up against the Boston Celtics. So perimeter defense all around great player. I would definitely go with, uh, with a guy like Kody. We've done this a couple of times now. I keep, I think my pick would be Kareem. I know

my pick would be Kareem for this particular team. Cause he was a good defender, right? And his, yes, he was prime. Yes. Yeah. The thing of it is, it like this question often skews with age. We are going to pick either Kareem or Shaq or somebody like that. Where to be honest, my pick would be Magic just because like, I don't care. I magic my guy in the same way that Kobe is his guy. But I mean, you know, I don't think you can go. That's the thing about, you know, you know, picking this with the Lakers. You can't really go wrong. Like you're you're you're you're picking between like top 10 all-time guys or 15 or wherever you have them

You know not to offend anybody Well, if we're talking about fit to think about someone like pal, Gasol playing with Luca and LeBron like he's a seven footer, but he's also an elite passer too. So you have the size, you have that length, and you pair that up with Luca and LeBron. I would love to see that. Disgusting. Disgusting.

I'm so old, I was actually gonna pick Lou Alcindor. And then I was like, all right, right, right. Mama called him Lou, I'm gonna call him okay. There goes that man. All right, Justin, what a pleasure having you on Myline Jack. And sometimes Jabari got Matt Busty's. Where can people find you, follow you, hear you, all that good stuff? Yeah.

So when I'm not talking basketball with you guys on this amazing podcast, thank you guys again for the invite. I really do appreciate it. I'm a diehard Lakers fan. I love the NBA. So getting to jump on a podcast like this is an absolute honor for me. So thank you again. You can check out my work. I cover Arizona football for the Arizona daily star and Tucson.com. I also host a radio show on ESPN Tucson down here in the old Pueblo. And you can

check out the Spears and Ali podcast. That's the name of our show. Spears and Ali. We're on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, The Hold 9. And yeah, man, I'm really, really thankful that I was able to jump on with you guys. Thank you for having me. ESPN, Tooth. Shout out Ali. Also find me on Twitter as well or X. I'm going to call it Twitter. Yeah, you can call it Twitter. It's Twitter. It'll always be Twitter. But yeah, follow me at Justin Esports. All right. You can find me on Twitter at Jack underscore O'Brien

on bluesky at Jack Obey the number one. Jabari, where can that people find you? Jabari A. Davis on Twitter. Jabari Davis NBA on the better site, also known as Bluesky. Yeah. Yeah. All right. And that's going to do it. Another one in the books, swish. Back next week with more NBA action, some playoff coverage. Can't wait. We will talk to y'all then, bye. Bye. What's up everyone, it's Greg Rosenthal and I'm teaming up with the King of Spring, Daniel Jeremiah.

He requires me to say that. We're going to be bringing you 40s and free agents, the only podcast you'll need this NFL draft season. From DJ's mock drafts to my top 101 free one free agents will have it covered for you with all new episodes every Thursday keeping you up to date as we head to the NFL draft. Listen to 40s and free agents on the I heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The championship is back in the bay for the first time in 40 years. podcast. For the entire behind the scenes story of Golden State's incredible 10 year run, listen to Dub Dynasty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ever wonder what it would be like to be mentored by today's top business leaders?

My podcast, This Is Working, can help with that. Here's some advice from Jamie Diamond, the CEO of JP Morgan Chase on standing out from the leadership crowd. Develop your EQ. A lot of people have plenty of brains, but EQ is do you trust me? Do I communicate well? Develop the team, develop the people, create a system of trust, and it works over time. I'm Dan Roth, LinkedIn's editor-in-chief. On my podcast, This Is Working, leaders share strategies for success. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Camila Ramon. And I'm Liz Ortiz. And our podcast, Hasta Abajo, is where sports, music, and fitness collide. And we cover it all. De Arriba Hasta Abajo. This season, we sit down with history makers like the Sucar family, who became the first Peruvians to win a Grammy. It was a very special moment for us. It's been 15 years for me in this career. Finally, things are starting to shift into a different level. Listen to Hasta Bajo on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty,

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