The Daily Zeitgeist - MJGMB #61: Jokic The Destroyer and Heat Culture with Izzy Gutierrez

Episode Date: May 25, 2023

Miles and Jack were honored to be joined by ESPN NBA reporter Izzy Gutierrez on today's episode. Izzy broke down Coach Spoelstra's excellence and Jimmy's brilliance in the postseason before the trio gave all the appropriate flowers to Jokic and the incredible season his Nuggets have provided!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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You mix homesteading with guns and church. Voila! You got straightway. They try to save everybody. Listen to Spiraled on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back, and the Denver Nuggets have completed the sweep. They got their brooms out and swept away the dusty old Lakers. And meanwhile, the Celtics... Come on.

I'm sorry. I felt like we were exposed a little bit. Okay, I'm not going to lie here. Meanwhile, the Celtics, they managed to avoid getting swept and forced a game five, which by the time you're hearing this will be happening later today. And we'll discuss the utter dominance of Jokic along with the healthy Jamal Murray, as well as the heat and Celtics and more with ESPN NBA reporter, Izzy Gutierrez on today's episode. I'm Miles Gray. And I'm Jack O'Brien. And this is Miles and Jack

Got Mad Pustis! Perfectly in sync, as always. Three on one. Davis Love LeBron! There you go. Driving, spinning, fading, hitting! Curry, a three-pointer.

Bang! Steph Curry from downtown again! Giannis with the take. Uh-oh, look out. Is he what's going on, man? How's it going guys? Oh, we're great. I'm whatever. Like it's going great. It's fine. I mean, you're, so you're dropping a podcast called four years of heat podcast at a time like just perfectly in line how did you get the nba to script this so perfectly like turning

the eastern conference finals into a piece of sponsored content for your podcast it's truly i would say whatever whatever script writer is working, like South Florida, he must have just visited. He or she must have just visited South Florida because we got a lot of good stuff going on down here. Like University of Miami made it to the final FAU. I mean, they were one game away from playing each other for a national championship, which is crazy because you guys have no idea what FAU was before this year, right? No. And you got the Panthers, of course. FAU was before this year, right?

No. And then you got the Panthers, of course. And so I don't know what kind of luck we got because I never get this lucky. But yeah, I just started working on this podcast basically at the beginning of the year, thanks to an iHeartRadio sort of reaching out and thinking of me for this possibility. And when I started working on it, the heat were wildly frustrating. This year's heat. What? As I continued working on it, the Heat were wildly frustrating. This year's Heat. What? As I continued working on it,

the Heat were wildly frustrating. And as they got to even the play, when they got to the last couple of days of the regular season, we were actually wondering if, you know, it might be a disaster. Like the Heat might not even make the playoffs and then it'll be like,

why are they releasing this thing in the middle of this postseason? But I mean, the reason we're releasing is because it's 10 years from, since that Ray Allen shot and that back to back championship. So it's an anniversary thing. It just so happens that he are making it really fortunate. But yeah, I don't know what kind of whatever juju, whatever mojo that Jimmy Butler's been carrying around. He didn't have it last year, but whatever he's been carrying around.

But I thank him for it because this is just quite the perfect synergy for me. Yeah. I mean, it feels like even when they win, like in the Milwaukee series, everyone made that series about Milwaukee collapsing. Now everyone

wants to make it about Boston collapsing. And it's just like, no, we're witnessing the heat do something we've never really seen before which is i i keep i keep thinking of this uh of this moment in the trailer for the new fast and the furious movie when ben diesel uh manages to like drive his car so hard that it like jumps and like it's just like through sheer effort and tyranny of will he's able to like drive a car harder and like it sounds like it could be the trailer for any of them um right i should let you know that i haven't seen a single

one of them yeah right but like that's what it just feels like jimmy butler was like all right i'm gonna be like extra good at i'm just gonna like. Jimmy Butler was like, all right, I'm going to be like extra good at, I'm just going to like concentrate real hard and like make threes now instead of missing them. And well, I mean, that's people just, when people don't understand what they're looking at, they just kind of go play the hits. And if you, if you know more about the other team, you just talk about the other team.

And I think the fact that Miami is doing this without people being able to explain it is a testament to, I think, Miami is doing this without people being able to explain it is a testament to, I think, Spolstra primarily. Because, you know, I don't think this team doesn't take the regular season seriously. I just think Eric Spolstra, I mean, he certainly does, but I think he also is working through a lot of things during the regular season. He's working out what the best, like any team, any good coach would be. You know, you're not going to see what works in week one

and stick with that the entire season. Right. So he's, you know, working through some stuff. And when he says in the post season, like we were pretty close all season long. I don't think he's lying, even though the results say differently and, you know, watching them play say different says differently, but I don't think he's lying because I don't think this is a team that just keeps banging its head against the wall if it knows for a fact that it's not going to work.

They were close and when you get to the postseason when you're preparing for the same team over and over again and not three teams and four nights, then you can really focus on a lot more things and that's where this team becomes great.

It's those small details details i just did a an espn daily uh podcast with uh kirk goldsberry who wrote a story about like what those finer details of like heat culture whatever what they actually translate to on the court and it's like in the postseason it's you know uh taking charges it's deflections it's loose balls recovered it's screen assists and you know the heat lead the league in all of those by far in the postseason. And so they just, they make everything so much more difficult for another team that maybe thinks, especially this year,

because they're an eight seed, maybe thinks, eh, we're going to get the regular season version of this team. And they didn't get anything close to it. Now, Jimmy Butler, that one's different. That one's crazy. Because this dude doesn't not only not make these shots

in the regular season, he doesn't take them. He doesn't take those 20-foot step backs. He doesn't take the threes, even if they leave them open. Unless Dwayne Wade's in the building, then he'll do anything. He'll go crazy. But he doesn't even take... In fact, I get so annoyed watching him a lot of times

during the regular season because he passes up shots. And I'm not talking deep shots. I'm talking by the rim. He'll fly by the rim. His head will be by the rim. And he's actually at the rim and isn't going to get blocked. But I don't even think that's the case. I think he's just kind of, again, consuming the game and just learning everything around him and recognizing that every possession in the regular season is not the end of the world. And if I don't score this bucket, if I don't see that bucket or that available shot, then no big deal. I'll see it in the postseason.

And so I think that is the guy who's just knows himself and is super confident in his abilities and doesn't have to show it off all the time or talk about it right unless it's the postseason yeah i mean that's what i identified in him as similar just like supremely confident person who doesn't have to show it off or talk about it like i just identified that's you so I saw him coming a mile away. Do you want to just brag? Last episode, before game one, I picked

the Heat in the series. I said that just based on what we've watched up to this point in the playoffs, both from the Heat and from the Celtics just being confusing and like at having some of the highest highs when the shot is falling.

And as we saw in, you know, game four, they, they can still turn it on. Um, but just a lot of variability and a lot of like just weird kind of lapses. But I don't know,

as somebody who really follows the Heat, Izzy, were you surprised by what you've seen in this series? Well, first of all, it's funny you mentioned the predictions. In the preseason, I said to myself, you know what? Stop being a coward. Pick the team that you want to win versus the team that you'll think

who's going to get there. And I said the Heat's going to beat the Denver Nuggets. Whoa. And it's on ESPN.. And I said, the Heat's going to beat the Denver Nuggets. Whoa. And I was in, it's on ESPN.com if you go through the archive. But in the postseason, having not even remembered that I picked a preseason champion, because it's kind of a weird

deal to pick up both finalists from each conference in the preseason and whatever. You're never going to be right. So I totally forgot that I made that prediction and went on to pick against the Heat twice in this postseason. First against the Bucs and then against Celtics. I picked Celtics in seven, I think.

And then I picked Lakers over the Nuggets because I let Bill Plasky talk me into LeBron and AD aren't going to lose to anybody this postseason. So I switched that from Denver in seven to Lakers in seven. So I've been all wrong. But, you know, I'm going to hang to anybody this postseason. So I switched that from Denver in seven to Lakers in seven. So I've been all wrong. But, you know, I'm going to hang on to that preseason prediction if that ends up happening.

Yeah. Well, the Celtics stuff is confusing to me because it always felt like this team was being held together by scotch tape. They didn't seem to get along. They didn't seem to have a great relationship even back with brad stevens necessarily it just felt very much like principal and student relationships you know it wasn't really like a tight bond it didn't feel like you know jason

or jalen they're both quiet they don't really not really vocal leaders um and then when you hear things kind of spill out like hey we got to pass the ball or um you know people not being very happy with the way other people are play without naming names uh it feels like that has to be really bad for it to get out from this team and so i felt like maybe things were really bad back then but ema just kind of fixed things in the middle of the season and all of of a sudden the winning, you know, cured all of that stuff. Yeah.

Season, you get pretty much the same thing. They start off with the one seed for most, for a good amount of time, kind of trickled out at the end and dropped to the two, but not really any issues to, to say that they have to address. They're all kind of like huddling up and making sure Missoula is going to be

good all year. But they're good enough to where they don't have to face their little, their major issues all season long. So you get to the postseason and those cracks start to show. Now, what do you do? Like they haven't. Who do you turn to? Like, what is the rallying point? Like he may he may, I think think was very effective last year when things went

south. Um, who knows, we didn't know how Joe was going to handle that. And Joe being 34, I don't think helps him. Um, you know, it's nothing against him. He can't do anything about his age, but I don't think that helps him. And all those other warts and all those things about those guys, maybe not really loving each other. And I think there was a story of source saying that this team has been fake liking each other for for a long time now sure that that kind of shows when you're around them even for the short period of time and i even think a guy like grant williams is a great example because i think he's what they all want to be like in terms of toughness and vocal and you know versatile just do whatever you need me to do. I'll do it. And regardless of my playing time,

I'm going to do it really hard. But they're not. And so what he does, it's not necessarily contagious. Maybe Marcus Smart does it as well, but it's not necessarily contagious. So it just felt like this team was sort of working under almost like a timer.

At any second, it could just implode. And it felt like it almost imploded or exploded, like at any second, it could just implode. Right. It felt like it almost imploded or exploded, whichever one you want. After game three, they just happened to hit enough shots in that third quarter to remind themselves of who they were. And now they don't feel so terrible, but if they lose this series,

there's going to be, I think a significant fallout from this team. I think if they lose this series, their peak as a core will have been last year's finals. Yeah. In game four, like just looking at kind of, you know, their fortunes changing a bit. Do you think that it's more like, you know, adjustments on Missoula's part or more that they like, they found their ability to shoot the three and you know, how are you seeing just sort of that game four? Cause I think for most people, I was just like, okay, so we're, everybody's getting swept down in the conference.

Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, if you look at NHL too, it looked like it was going to be four sweeps all in the conference finals. But, you know, Boston came through. I just think it was a couple of things. Like, I think it's a little bit of human nature with the heat. They haven't had this level of sustained success all season. They hadn't won five games in a row all season. And so, you know, not that they sort of got comfortable,

but A, some of those shots were just not going to fall. B, you know, the Celtics are going to play a little bit harder. Defense would be a little bit more aggressive. And if you're not getting

the sort of otherworldly game from Jimmy Butler, you can't make up for all that other stuff. And it's just going to look like another regular season game from them. And, you know, the Celtics used that third quarter

and just kind of went off. I think what you're afraid of if you're Miami is, I mean, I hate to say this because it sounds insulting. He's humbly one of the best basketball players in the world, but Jason Tatum, kind of a front runner of a score. Like he needs sort of somebody else to sort of tip the scales for him, or maybe just one or two shots to go in. And then he can sort of get comfortable and really take over right after that you know second half

that he had that game that he had in what he feels like was you know a probably a bounce back i think he's probably going to potentially especially at home get into a rhythm like you do not want to let him hit his first three if you let him hit one or two of his first shots he might be going for 50 against you and so if i'm miami like i've got to change my game plan a little bit more aggressively towards stopping um jason tatum especially when you saw like i don't know if jaylen brown's fingers are busted but it doesn't seem like you can shoot right now right yeah we talk about the myth of having figured it out. And the thing that happened in the last like game that you saw is how things are going to keep happening. And I think I was a little bit susceptible to that after that game four,

I was like, you know, if any teams coming back from three Oh down, that it would be a Boston team. It would be a one or a two seed versus a eight seed that is, has high, like three point shooting variability and like suddenly just gets hot like that.

That makes sense to me. But I also think that with somebody who is a streaky shooter, like when that is your best player, the person that you least want them going against in a series would probably be Jimmy Butler, because I feel like he will find a way to get inside your head and, you know, win that battle. Well, Jimmy will just get inside his own head. And that's what, like, I'm pretty sure on his phone is probably just a loop of Grant

Williams blocking him. Yeah, right. Or, you know, it wasn't his game, but he doesn't seem in the slightest concern that he's got to go to Boston. Like, and when he's done it, he's done it twice this post season. He did it in the regular season after coming off of an injury and telling

everybody I'm coming Boston. And so I don't doubt that that's going to be there at least one more time in these three games. I'm pretty much predicting it's going to happen in this game five, but you're still going to get at least one more like Gabe Vincent explosion. You know, you're probably going to get a five, three point game from Max Drews. It's just too many. Like you mentioned the variables, like there are too many heat variables now in this post season where they're, you just can't predict another three Boston Celtics wins. Like you're going to have Kevin Love hit four threes in a quarter. All of a sudden you're just like,

geez, what am I going to do? Like that just happens to be if they're playing well, especially a guy like Cody Martin, who now looks like the third best player, you know, in the series, he could,

you know, go either way. And so I'm with you. Like you just don't, can't really predict, but I think based on this post season, one of those going to happen. And what,

what we have seen is that Boston not good at home in the postseason and probably a little shaky in some close contests. So there's just no shot. Well, luckily for the Heat, Game 5 is in Boston. So if that'll hold...

Luckily for everybody, man. I think LeBron broke that place because in 2012, when he went in, because I remember, man, that place used to be tough to play. Now, like, look at the numbers. Like these people are just going in and just saying, hey, it's just another place and we

can go in and win even in the playoffs. Right. Yeah. I feel like there's something with how talented this team is and the expectations they go into every season and playoffs with like when they start performing poorly and it's not entirely clear why you can just like kind of hear the pain the collective pain in the crowd and then that has to be sensed by the players like that has to hurt a little bit you remember in like in that game six in 2012 like the crowd after the game

was over they knew it was over like they just started chanting for the celtics you know trying to give them that momentum going into game seven. Now they don't even try that. They're just like, ah, whatever. We've seen that movie a million times. All right. Let's take a break real quick. And then we'll come back to talk a little bit about the Western Conference before talking about a potential finals matchup right after this.

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on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back uh gotta talk about the western conference finals miles i will not let you make the same mistake i was just talking about and look at the lakers loss as a lakers loss as much as it was a buzzsaw running into a team that i think again, like let's focus on who's winning and like what they're doing and how incredible it is. I feel like the nuggets are playing. This might be recency bias, but I feel like they're playing as well as we've seen a team play in the

last five years. Like they are. Wow. I mean, the shot making is incredible. Like, I don't know the passing. I'm,

I'm kind of blown away by the nuggets. So is your five years in your head? Does that include the last kevin durant year in golden state i think it my five years since then yeah i was thinking it was like since the kd in golden state this is the best the highest level we've seen a team play at and the heat might go in and win in five but uh well we're we're to get to that later. Potential preview there because, I mean, we already talked about how there's just no chance for Boston, right? I'm just going to keep saying that so that...

Well, historically... ...I mean, I'll have enough options to make fun of me with. But, man, I haven't really thought about that because, like, hmm, I mean, it's really... Well, they got to win the chip first right they do and then so I wonder like I think of like the bucks when Giannis is rolling through the playoffs

like yeah I guess it wasn't the team playing that well it was more Giannis kind of carrying them no it has been it has been pretty darn good like it's funny how much better Jokic just keeps getting like yeah he's been the same player but he just keeps every single year. And for all, you see fans take shots at his physical appearance or whatever.

And like, this guy? Really? The Lakers are going to do that? I'm like, are you watching him play? And we say this all the time about Joker. He plays uncle ball. It feels like you're playing with your uncle in the driveway who doesn't have to try to embarrass you he's like oh you thought oh behind my head haha dish it off over here oh you're trying to guard this watch me throw it over my head from like 50 feet away it's just there's like an

inevitability about it too that even as a laker fan i was resigned to the fact i'm like up jamal and i'm like that's a three yeah and there it is uh it just felt like i could even as much as confident or as much positivity or optimism i held as a fan, even as a Laker fan. There was just something that was so objectively clear to me watching. It was like, oh, no, we don't play like this. This is like this is championship material. And I'm as much as I felt good about, you know, taking down the previous champion. It just it's just night and day.

There's just such a gulf in quality. Well, let me ask you, because not that we are talking about the Lakers. We're still technically talking about the winning team, but I wanted to ask you how you thought Anthony Davis defended Jokic? Because, I mean, obviously they went to Hachimura there for a long time

and had Anthony Davis helping some, but I think in terms of one-on-one, it's never going to matter who's actually defending him right if you don't actually give help yeah it it did feel like that uh and i i there are times where i felt it was definitely lacking but again i think it was just to beyond all that because prior to that ad has been one of the most dominant defensive players like watching this playoff run i was like wow in my mind i was like, wow. In my mind, I was like,

oh, okay. I like this going. Like now we have something, but the reality smacked me right in my face. And it was like, it turns out it was not enough. It would have worked well.

If he wasn't one of the best passers we've seen in the history of the game. And with a bunch of shooters on his team, then it was just about to say, Aaron Gordon's your worst shooter. And I don't know how you're not going to give him the Draymond treatment. Like you're not going to leave him in the corner. shooters on his team. I was just about to say, Aaron Gordon's your worst shooter and he's pulling up. You're not going to give him the Draymond treatment. You're not going to leave him in the corner because he's going to hit one out of two of those.

We learned. The two times when Jokic, he didn't win the series by hitting threes, but the sidearm three he hit over AD where he just kind of cranked it from the side and it was nothing but net and then like that running backwards one

foot three that was was that game three or four? I forget. That was four. That was the clincher. Yeah. Absolute. That was a dagger. Dagger and then he pulled a coin out from behind AD's ear. Yeah, exactly. And he made him a balloon animal. Yeah, he made him a balloon

animal. It's like, what? It's like, happy birthday, son. Shot clock is four. Jokic has to put it up. Falling away, puts it up. Bang! Nikola Jokic knocks it down. His foot was on the line.

A two-pointer. What a shot. So the answer is, essentially, you've got to outscore them, right? If they're going to be surrounding Jokic with shooters and just playmakers, like Bruce Brown's a good playmaker, obviously Murray, then you're going to have to outscore them. And in doing that, you're probably going to have to try to tire Jokic or the whole team, right?

And to make some sloppy mistakes. And this is where I see potential. And I don't know if we want to get into a potential matchup with Miami. Yeah, let's do it. Or if we want to keep talking about these Nuggets. I mean, I think we've made our point. The Nuggets are the team to talk. Although, again, I know many people love to see the vanquished Lakers,

which I get. That's just the culture of the NBA fandom and stuff like that. But, yeah, we can all agree that they were fantastic and that's they deserve their flowers. One hundred percent. And you don't want to talk about the possibility of LeBron retiring, right? Like you're just we're just going to skip right past that. I mean, to me personally, I look I, I like the takes I've seen on Twitter. Why don't you go to USC, man?

And go play with Ronnie there. Go play for a year. He's got four years of eligibility, man. I mean, what has he made? Like 200 and like 300 million in image, image and likeness so far. Right, right, right. But no, I mean, I think when I saw that, I was like, no way. Like, surely that can't be.

But at times I, I, like I've said to jack and like jabari like on our text i was watching the game i'm like he's looking hurt he's looking like human which is you know something we're not used to seeing so that's definitely jarring and maybe i'm avoiding it because like i just didn't want to accept seeing that but i mean he's he's he's come this far uh but yeah however he wants to end it he's gonna end it yeah i mean he says in one breath that he's like still 95 or top 95th percentile or whatever that uh phrasing is better than 95 of the players in the league and then you know says maybe i want to retire he's not here he's gonna have the most elaborate uh farewell tour ever yeah he's gonna have everything announced uh every step of the way yeah he will not go quiet into that good night of retirement.

We definitely know that. The one thing I will say about the Nuggets, though, in terms of I don't think they can really beat themselves. But do you think Jamal Murray can still have one or two of those like shooting them out of a game type of situations? Because he does seem to always want to shoot his way out of a slump rather than just you know let somebody else get a couple looks yeah i mean yeah they are to a lesser degree than the celtics they are pretty three-point dependent or at least he is as a as a scorer so i mean if he if he's off and he he is a streaky player but it just yeah all right first crack of doubt in the nuggets i'm starting to see it because the only issue is that you're playing half the games in in denver and so the idea of

gassing them like no right and you're gonna be gassed i would say like i maybe i didn't watch as closely as i thought i was watching but like i feel like you can work jokic in the pick and rolls a lot more like i think you can force a lot a lot of him defending and like look jimmy butler and i've been wondering why he does this because it drives me nuts like i'm thinking back even to last season or whenever they play the sixers he'll be you know switched on to joelle and beetle switch on to him and that's the dude he decides to attack i'm like why why are you attacking the biggest robert williams yesterday yeah but he's been doing that's robert williams the whole series yeah and and i'm the dude he decides to attack. I'm like, why? Why are you attacking the biggest... Robert Williams yesterday. Yeah.

But he's been doing that to Robert Williams the whole series. Yeah. And I'm wondering why. And I don't think that he's looking ahead, clearly.

But if I look ahead, I'm like, if that dude's taking Robert Williams whenever he wants, not whenever he wants, but on occasion, he's going to hunt Jokic down

every time. Yeah. Now, if that's the nugget, if the Nuggets want to just, you know, hedge and recover, do whatever, whenever he wants, but every on occasion, he's going to hunt Jokic down every time and make it. Now, if, if that's the nugget, if the nuggets want to just, you know, hedge and recover,

do whatever else, then that might be a nightmare for them too, because Jokic doesn't really have great foot speed. I think they can be gotten with execution, like offensive execution. And that's why I thought LeBron, because he had ideas, that weapon would be able to out execute them. It's just, you know, that just nuggets had too much firepower. I do think that Miami with a lot of these things that they do, the deflections, it's not going to make all these passes as simple. You know, the charges that, you know, these drive and kicks, you know, you might just run into Kyle Lowry and there goes that possession. You know, you might just run into Kyle Lowry and there goes that possession.

So I think they can be bothered enough because again, looking at that Lakers team, what was that roster by the end? Was it all the, like the defensive, what was it? Vanderbilt wasn't playing. Um, right. I mean, unless you're saying Hachimura is like that crazy defensive difference maker. Like, I mean, by the end you're playing D'Angelo Russell, Lonnie Walker, and Tristan Thompson off your bench. So I don't know if that was the same caliber of defensive team that the Heat's giving you right now

in the playoffs. So, and that's even with Anthony Davis. So, I mean, I think there's a lot to be sort of gained from a coaching advantage, no offense to Michael Malone, but a coaching advantage and a sort of toughness and effort advantage because like, no offense to michael malone but a coaching advantage and a sort of toughness and effort advantage uh because like no offense but mpj isn't you know giving you all the feisty

defensive effort like unless he's hitting eight threes in a row so i think the heat would still have something that denver hasn't really seen yet yeah i think there's got something that everybody hasn't really seen is what we're learning man somebody is getting rich off of betting on the heat somebody saw this come into the playoffs if i was a better like i would just do that to all my preseason predictions now imagine where i'd be oh yeah yeah big swings yeah i was praying but still right right i mean both teams kind of feel like teams of inevitability at this point, which is what makes for a good finals. Like Miami just being able to turn it up when they want. Denver has just looked like the best team all season.

And then the playoffs came around and they looked better with each round, I feel like. So that makes for an amazing finals. I'm super excited to see. I don't have a feel about this one i didn't have a feel about i might just have denver blindness because i didn't have a feel about denver lakers uh i had a feel about miami celtics i don't really have a feel about miami denver at this point i mean i've seen it i've seen miDenver in the regular season, and it was ugly. It was Denver, yeah. It was pretty for Denver.

It was ugly for Miami. But after these three rounds, it's like you throw all that out the window anyway, because how seriously did they really take preparation for that one game? Right. Yeah. It's unstoppable force versus immovable object, which is always a good battle for any sports. Yeah.

Also, it does feel like playoff experience and having been there has been advantageous recently so i feel like that that gives miami a bit of an advantage the guy that never really gets talked about but means so much is is bam out of bio yeah like him going from you know know, deep boy, what second place, Brooke Lopez, uh, second or third place and having to figure out a way. And then, you know,

Mitchell Robinson who dominated the calves, big men, uh, he had to find a way to make sure that he didn't, you know, do too much while again, still doing everything on the defensive end of the floor, switching on the perimeter,

rebounding, et cetera. He picked up the rebounding game. I think the Clint Capella game in the play and embarrassed him a little bit. And he just is rebounding has gotten significantly better. And I wish I was saying this before game four because he kind of, you know, didn't perform as well in game four. But he seemed to have figured out, you know, let me put the all in effort. And I'm not going to concern

myself too much with everybody telling me I need to score. Of course, I'm going to try, but it's not going to be my primary focus. And it seems to have working well for him. And then you just got to picture him and you think, all right, he's doing way better than he was last year against the Celtics. And, you know, those two guys are still there, Horford and Williams. And then he doesn't get a break. He's going to get Jokic in the next round. And he's going to be completely helpless when he's one-on-one in the post. And it's not even going to be an option, really, for him to stay one-on-one. And so it's a nightmare for him. I have no idea how he is going to last through however many games playing heavy minutes.

Because I think he's just going to be exhausted. Yeah. I mean, that's well analysis right there. He's going to be tired. I mean, when I'm watching these guys, I'm like,

they're running up and down the floor so much. They're not tired. They're not tired. That's my, that's my take. Um, I mean, the others that like the heat have really used the zone well,

uh, and I feel like the nuggetsuggets feel zone-proof but then again, I mean, the Celtics seemed like they should have been zone-proof a little bit. I didn't go back and watch those games, but I'm pretty sure I remember the Heat working or trying that zone against Jokic and it not being true.

Yeah, it's hard because he's like algorithmically always making the right decision with the ball. Yeah, and everybody around him already naturally cuts and, and plays off of him because they've been doing it since, you know, since they played with him. And so doing it against his own is easier.

You got stationary people there. So for the most part. Yeah. No, it's like practice cones. Cool. All right. Thanks.

All right. Let's take a quick break. We'll come back. And Izzy's going to be in the hot seat for the rapid fire round of questions after this. When you think of Mexican culture, you think of avocado, mariachi, delicious cuisine,

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or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. We're back. Izzy, I know you've been on TV. You've done so many podcasts, so much media. This, what you are about to experience, is actually the fastest segment in media history, any format. Even have not been created yet yes yeah yeah but heretofore and so forth um if you had a hat on your head it would be spinning around uh that's how fast this is um so miles and i are going to be throwing questions at you uh your job is to just give us your answer.

Keep us on track because we're not as fast as the segment is sometimes. So if we start dragging on with our answers, like you got the media professionalism, be like, hey, guys, come on. Let's keep this going. This is the rapid fire round of questions. You're wildly unprofessional. Both the participant and the referee. Exactly.

That's what makes this so unique. So again, hit you with the question. Chess pass it right back. Quick responses. No thinking. You ready? Oh, wait. I thought too much.

Yes, I'm ready. Here we go. Brian, start the clock. Okay. Jack, are you going to go first? I'd love for you to go first miles okay here we go is he what is your favorite nba city to visit and what is your must-have meal in that city oh man uh probably san francisco and rice rice Ghirardelli chocolate. You know what? Rice and rum.

That's my answer. Yeah, the best. No, for real. What's your favorite? Pull up to San Francisco. Go to Kroger. I forget the name of the rest. I think it's something simple as like Mama's or something kitchen or bakery or something. But it's like this breakfast place that people stand outside in line for.

And so I just love breakfast. And I like, like you know a good last meals yeah yeah what's the way what's the what makes like what are you getting at the what's really well-made breakfast food okay okay i love breakfast food i love birds bagels in la miles have you had that i've had courage bagels yeah yeah i just had that for the first time this weekend i ate like five bagels at a child's birthday party I was like boxing the kids out I was like no they're like let off of me I'm starving oh no all right Izzy first of all you got to keep us more on track than that don't let me come at you I'm not the best with these the speed of these questions like

I try to think about it and maybe I't have something on top of my head, but I'll try harder. All right. We're talking teams that we want to cover in the offseason that people might not be paying attention to, but just previewing them. I think so far we've discussed the Spurs shoo-in, OKC shoo-in. What's a team that you're expecting is going to be interesting to watch next season that people might not have their eye on?

Orlando Magic. Orlando Magic. Let's be passing the ball to you. I don't know if you noticed that. Wow, wow. What is it about Orlando? Man, this is the slowest game ever. Uh, man, this is the slowest game ever.

Um, no. Well, first of all, I really hope they draft a SAR Thompson because, uh, I think he's going to be really good as well. His twin brother, a man Thompson, but in today's NBA front court, maybe two through four combo of Palo Banquero, Franz Wagner, and a SAR Thompson would be absolutely like it's, it would be great for somebody like Eric's poster, for example, so many options, so many things to do with that trio.

Uh, they have everything except Ben Carol, probably not as great a shooter. Thompson going to be a good enough shooter. He's actually really good shooting the ball right now and everything else that they can do and their approach to the game. Like, I think that's going to be a really fun group.

And even somebody like Markel Fultz, who's not really required to do as much, he's having a lot of fun over there. And if you give him more talent around him, he's going to be even better. He's fun to watch. And so I think Orlando. And it's not just a Florida bias

because I'm not a huge fan of Florida right now. Okay. As a Sixers fan, I've never heard of this Markel Fultz fellow that you're talking about, but he sounds like I know not of this man.

By the way, the restaurant where his mom is on Washington Square. There it is. There it is. That's what I love that. All right,

Izzy, we got to keep this segment. I'm sorry. It's all good. It's all good. I got to ask you this question now.

You can go back and attend any single playoff game in NBA history. Any game. Which game are you choosing wait do i know what's gonna happen like do i know the result it's a great philosophical question do we know what's that memory wipe wow um oh yes you do know super producer jabari's coming through saying yes you, you are Biff Tanner in this scenario. You got the sports almanac. I'm going to go ahead and say Kobe's 81.

Especially now. You know, I remember where I was and I do not do that very often because, man, my memory's terrible long term. But I was at the Hard Rock Hotel and Casino when I got a text. I forget who the text was from. See, somebody sent me a message that said, Kobe has 70. And I said, what? And I just stopped everything I was doing and just went to the middle bar

and found the TVs that had the NBA TV on. And it wasn't the most entertaining of finishes. But I know if I was there, I think I would have had just a lot of fun watching that. Because, I mean, you know, it's that and it's Wilt. And so, yeah, I think that's probably my answer. There are very few flashbulb moments of any pop culture in my lifetime. But Kobe getting 81, I remember where I was when I found out the game was happening and like running to the TV, uh, and LeBron going off against Detroit for that first time when it was like, Oh, okay. So he is him. I know the kids like to say that now, but he really

is him. All right. Is there a single NBA player you would take right now over the chance of taking Wemba Yama with the first pick this summer? I would say, I don't know how many people you've asked this question, but I would say most people would lean toward taking the short thing, right? So if I could switch that for, I mean, who is the youngest up and coming star? I probably don't want to get Jason Tatum, right? If I could trade it right now for Nikola Jokic, is that an option? Yeah, Jokic is an option,

and I feel like we haven't had anybody, heading into the playoffs, we hadn't had anybody say Jokic, and I feel like he has played his way into, that seems like the right answer, or at least a completely valid answer at this point. It's like, oh yeah, that probably makes sense. That guy's really good.

For everybody that thinks, oh, he's definitely going to get hurt, give his body type, you don't think the people around him who have been nurturing him and taking care of him and wanting him to be this next great thing have not considered that possibility that maybe they should train him properly so that he doesn't get hurt

or there's technology to sort of predict these types of things and knowing what to train. Like, I think more than ever now, you can't really make that argument. Like, you can't really make that prediction anymore because even if he does have some sort of, like, nobody thinks Chet Holmgren's done, right?

He's just, oh, sorry, early first year got a bad, unlucky injury, whatever. He'll be fine. I don't think you can predict injury with him. And, you know, in the NBA, with the way it protects its offensive players now, like, what are you going to do against him if he rises up from distance? Like, you have to get entirely out of his way unless you can block that shot. And so I think he just provides too many possibilities.

And we've seen too much of an evolution of the game. Like Giannis, you know, obviously, I think if we redraft, he's number one in that season in 2013. But I think even if we don't know how good he can be, I think just his body type and his personality, probably from an interview, gets him drafted in the top 15 this year you know right yeah i don't think anybody's passing up that possibility just because it's it's so unique and yeah you know even with a guy like yokich you just don't know he could get hurt anytime too yeah people talk about like his size and health and they're like you know look what happened to like ralph sampson and sam bowie and guys who were over 7'2", I think. But those guys played in penny loafers.

That few people realize that's what you played in back then. It was penny loafers or tap shoes. That's where the technology was at the time. So there's not much you can do. It's a different game. That's a very good point. Tap shoes. That would be great.

Izzy, you're a South Florida native. I gotta ask you, rank these three Miami musicians from number one to number three. DJ Khaled, Gloria Estefan, Pitbull. Oh, man. Okay. Just by my taste,

I'm going to go Gloria Estefan third. And, you know, she's been, I've spoken to Gloria and her husband. Very nice people. Love them. Fixtures in the city. Made amazing music. I've just heard it my entire life.

So, probably third. Okay. Second has to be Pitbull. Mr. Thrill Worldwide. He is such a great story, but I just like DJ Khaled's music better. And DJ Khaled also was in my podcast, Four Years of Heat.

Not the reason why I'm picking him. Right, right, right. But I mean, come on. Like the bangers that he's made, whether producing or even rapping on him just you could listen to him anytime okay also i think we have to add a cool ranch pizzeria to the dj khaled um the papa john's pizzeria oh yeah yeah yeah it's the papadilla papadilla my bad yes yes um but yeah. That's another hit from another one.

Finally, the question we ask all our guests, Jack or Miles? To refresh your memory, I'm Jack. I'm Miles. I'm trying to think of who I like better. I'm Miles. That's Jack. Usually people are like, I can't pick, but I like that you're telling us

it's who you like better. Cool. I'm going to say Miles. I feel like he needs some love right now because his Lakers just got swept. I'll take that. I should have mentioned I'm a Sixers fan. You did already. You did already.

You did already. Let me have this one, Jack. That makes my pick way more solid. I'm going to break your streak. We're fine. We're fine in Philly. Let me have this one, Jack. That makes my pick way more solid. I'm going to break your streak. I'm going to break your streak. Oh, man. We're fine. We're fine in Philly. We're fine.

We're good, people. Thank you so much, Izzy. What a pleasure having you up until the last 15 seconds. I got four years of heat. Yeah. Tell us about the podcast real quick. Yeah, four years of heat. It takes you through the four years that LeBron came here and blessed this town and turned

them into a legitimate sports town and won a couple championships. There's a lot of good stuff in there. It's not even just for Heat fans like Maverick stuff, Spurs stuff, Bulls, Pacers. It's all great. It's been so much fun going through it all and thinking back on how just pure of a competition

that was and how much people loved that era. It's been a ton of fun and it's going to be a fun listen. So check it out. We're dropping an episode every week. This Tuesday was our first episode. The next one will be next Tuesday. There'll be a couple weeks where there's two episodes dropped, but it comes out at the same time as the 10-year anniversary of Ray Allen's

shot where he saved the heat season in 2013. And you've got new interviews, right, with Ray and Shane Battier? New interviews with Ray, with a bunch of guys. Shane Battier, Mario Chalmers, Joe Kim Noah, Brendan Haywood, Matt Bonner, Boris Diaw joined me from France. It's been a lot of good. Rachel Nichols, Dan Levitard. A lot of great voices.

DJ Khaled. DJ Khaled is in there every episode. If you liked The Last Dance, but were like, where's DJ Khaled during this? If you liked The Last Dance, but you didn't like all the moving pictures on your TV, this is the medium for you. Where else can people find you and follow you and all that kind of stuff?

In terms of social, I'm still Iz Gutierrez on Twitter or Mr. Iz Gutierrez on Instagram. You can see me on ESPN, Round the Horn, Debatable, all those shows, catch my work on ESPN.com, CJ McCollum podcast whenever that comes back around, ESPN

Daily at the moment, who knows how long I'm going to be doing that for, maybe a long time. So yeah, you can probably find me anywhere. Alright, well you can find us at MadBoosties on Twitter, B-O-O-S-T-I-E-S and man, we gotta give a shout out to our Boosties listeners

of the week. Once again, Aaron McCarthy wanted to make sure to thank me for acknowledging the LeBron aging talk being disturbing. As a 38-year-old person who graduated high school in the year 2003, tired of hearing people like, he's 38! Yeah, that's fine.

As a 45-year-old, I am in complete agreement with you. Yeah, come on now. What are you talking about? Let him live. And also, shout out to Zeitgeist listener, TheRealMadMax for giving the show a listen for the first time due to the Wemba and Yama conversation. So we always appreciate the love from the other

listeners as well. Until next time, I'll be Miles. That'll be Jack. You did it. We'll nail it this time. Until next time, I'll be Jack. I'll be Miles.

And I'll be Jack. Yes. And this is Matt Boosties. Alright, thank y'all. We'll see you next week. Bye! Nailed it. I'm Carrie Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese.

Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. I'm Keri Champion,

and this is season four of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry, Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's basketball. And on this new season,

we'll cover all things sports and culture. Listen to Naked Sports on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio apps, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by Diet Coke. Captain's Log, Stardate 2024. We're floating somewhere

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