The Daily Zeitgeist - MJGMB #64: NBA Finals and Big Jokic Energy with Michael Lee

Episode Date: June 15, 2023

Miles and Jack were pleased to be joined by the Washington Post's Michael Lee on today's episode. The trio discussed the NBA Finals, Denver's incredible run and Jokic's all-time status, and more!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Santos! Listen to Lucha Libre Behind the Mask on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you stream podcasts. Well, it looks like we have a champion, and it's the Denver Nuggets. The champ is here. The 2023 NBA title with a 4-1 series victory

over the Miami Heat. We're going to discuss the series, Jokic in the all-time discussion, and plenty more with Washington Post's Michael Lee on today's episode. I'm Miles Gray. And I'm Jack O'Brien. And this is... Miles and Jack on Mad Boosties! Oh, I like that one.

That was good. It was harmonic, I would say, that intro. I went high, you went low. Exactly. That's how we go. Three on one. Davis. Love.

LeBron. There you go. And B, driving, spinning, fading, hitting. Curry, a three-pointer. Bang. Steph Curry from downtown again. Giannis with the take. Uh-oh, look out.

No showtime. What you got, Giannis? Michael Lee from the Washington Post. Thank you so much. A sports enterprise reporter based in Philly. You've been writing about the league for over 20 years now? About 20 years? Yeah, since 2002.

Okay. Wow. We'll call that over two decades. Welcome to the show, man. Thank you for joining us yeah thanks for having me on i'm glad you guys didn't set the invite oh yeah yeah of course of course of course season's over though it is it is we've arrived at arrived at the end a little sad yeah yeah as any season ending is but i feel like the best team won like the team that was

the best team from not just in this series, but probably the best team all season came out on top. Absolutely. I mean, I don't, I'm not as active on Twitter as I used to be. I used to be very active on Twitter, but I do remember like saying in February that Denver's youngest are the

best team in the NBA, but nobody was willing to admit it. Yeah. Yeah. Like nobody wants to admit it, but they are the best team. And it wasn't just that like Jamal Murray was starting to find himself yeah yeah like nobody wants to admit it but they are the best team and it wasn't just that like jamal murray was starting to find himself because you know it takes a while to come back from that knee injury and gain trust in it and like so but his production

started to pick up yeah look a little more like his old self and aaron gordon was looking like a borderline all-star like a little buzz that he could be the second nugget to make it and and it was just like all these things were coming together. Obviously, Yoko just playing amazing basketball, averaging almost a triple-double. And it's just like, how is this team in first place? They got all these things coming together. Everybody's ignoring them, you know, to talk about whatever drama that's going on. Like, we got a good team here that we should probably be promoting as being really good.

But it was just, it was a kind of a messy period. Cause that was obviously when we got Kendrick Perkins, you know, calling Yoko to stat pattern and, uh, talking about the racial makeup of MVP voters and really taking the MVP conversation to a place that never should have gone,

especially as it relates to Yoko. Right. Um, you know, superstar production carrying mediocre rosters the last two years. Now he has healthy teammates and they're in first place. And he's doing a miraculous thing. And I just felt like we were dumbing down the conversation

when we should have been elevated, and it was embarrassing. For me as a fan of basketball, I don't write about the NBA as much, but it was embarrassing to watch because as a fan of the game, I think we should sit back and just admire who these guys are and what they're bringing and admire them for the era that they're in. You know, one thing that always bothers me, especially after the championship, is that we do lists. I'm sure you guys probably have a list. We're list free. We're list free. And we compare guys and rank guys and do all these

things that really just take it away from our ability to appreciate what we just saw like yeah like what we just saw from yokich was an all-time performance i don't want to sit back and compare it to a chemology one right we we have typically resisted the conversations around like where does he fit like it and super producer jabari almost got me with this this week he was like all right this is the quiet this is the conversation everyone's having is he on the top five centers list and i took the bait i wrote up a big thing but i i do feel deep down no no i i do feel deep down that like he's playing a different sport this is a difference like not necessarily different but the game is so different if you were like having the conversation of like

if he traveled into a time machine like we always talk about on this show that like basketball is progressive and like the players build their games on top of the games of the players in the past the shot making has gotten so much better like everything is just so much different than it was the one place that i think we can compare great players to the past is their post-game celebrations because that that doesn't change and jokic gave us one of the most unique championship celebrations that I think we have ever seen. Um, he celebrated begrudgingly. Yeah. Um, like he was like told that this would be over when the game ended. And like,

this was overtime that he wasn't getting paid for. Right. Yes. So I'm curious what you are feeling right now. And if you're looking forward to a parade coming up in Denver, Venice parade, Venice parade, Thursday, what you are feeling right now and if you're looking forward to a parade coming up in Denver. When is parade? When is parade? Thursday.

No. I need to go home. Okay. But I do think, like, he is such a unique personality that, like, just his whole thing where he like a lot of it just like begrudging it's like it's like the his body language uh he's just like yeah i'm out there

i'm working and i'm giving you like one of the most beautiful games you've ever seen but i don't know like there's a lot of conversations about like Jimmy Butler is like alpha and like he seems to be doing it as much with his like personality as he's doing it with like what physically does with his talent on the court and I think that's true like I had that thought watching him in these playoffs but like that is by no means a necessity like clearly because Jokic is just out there doing his thing without any any of the uh swagger the riz that as the kids call it yeah yeah I think that that's what the beautiful thing about him is and about all the great players that kind of come into this league is that there is no comparison that makes sense and that they all there's always a mold that they form that can't be duplicated it can't

and you know and they're their own space you know um and like yokas is just such a unique talent in that you know he has like a dad bod you know he's not physically you know look he doesn't like he's imposing like Shaq did um but he's so smart you know I think that one of the things I heard um Isaiah Thomas say on uh NBA TV was that he has the answers to the test yeah so he's he's never out of the game because he he already knows the answers to the test so it was funny to me like during this playoff run like they put ruey on them and at the end of game one of the western conference finals the lakers might have figured something out here everything yeah no they didn't like this is not the first time he's been guarded

by a small guy like it's just yeah they still lost the game yeah like he was just trying to win the game like he was not it was the first time yeah ruey right first time the commentators saw him play basically they're like i think they figured this guy out this jock itch guy they're like well do you know yeah and then it was like in the finals it's like oh we're gonna make him into a score instead of a passer you don't think he knows how to get the ball to his teammates even when you try to make him a score like he's figured it he's not like it's not his third year in the league this is right this is year seven like he he's figured it out like and he and he has the answers to the test which you know which makes it scary for the nuggets going forward because you know a

lot of people were like well you know it's just him and murray you know gordon kind of played above his head and like michael porter flamed out in the finals. And I'm like, well, I look at it this way. I don't see how Michael Porter doesn't come back better next year. Right. I don't see how he doesn't, if he's healthy and he gets to go into an off season healthy and just has to work on his game and not rehab, how are you not going to come back better? Yeah.

And I think if you look at the way the nuggets have been building this team going forward, I give credit to like, you know, Tim Connolly and obviously Calvin Boothvin booth right right now but just for the vision that they had and the other thing too that i think gets overlooked too about the nuggets and what made their run so special is look at the chemistry of that team look at how much those guys you can see they genuinely like being around each other i remember going to one of their practices this year

and like, they were just having so much fun. Like they were playing shooting games and, and everybody was having a good time. And like, that's not because that's not a fluke. Like that's just something that they, they intended to get a locker room of good guys.

They tend to have a locker room of veterans who can police locker room. I mean, you see a Deandre Jordan, you see a Jeff green, you see it. It's Smith. I always say that for a championshipff green you see it is smith i always say that for a championship team you need spirit guys and when i say spirit guys i mean guys who

elevate the room with their energy and with their spirit every team that you can find a champion you have to have those guys especially if you have you know kind of quirky superstars you know right yeah and like if you look at steph in in golden state and why, why has golden state been on this amazing run? Because not only is Steph their best player, but he's their spirit guy. He's the guy that elevates the energy in the room and brings it like a fun room to be in. And that, and that, that, and like, usually you don't get that from your star player, you know, you need it from somewhere else, but he brings that, he brought that. And that's why the warriors have been, you know, great for this last decade.

It's because Steph is not only their best player, but he's their spirit guy. Then the Nuggets have a bunch of spirit guys. It's Smith. He's been on 14 teams or whatever, right? 13 teams. He's been on a bunch of teams. But everywhere he's been, everybody loves him. Everybody says he's a great guy.

And, like, you add that energy to a locker room. If somebody gets grumpy or somebody gets moody and and you know tries to break break it apart the vets ain't having it yeah because you got the spirit guys policing that and adding that energy and like they traded bones highland bones highlands a really talented player like i thought they got a steal when they drafted him but he was acting up he wasn't happy with his role. He was expressing his discontent. And they were like,

you know what? As talented as he is, he's breaking up the vibe. We can't, we can't move forward as a team that's about winning and about like, you know, having this positive force kind of pushing us to a title with this guy over here.

And they got rid of him. Yeah. They had a guy who's one of the best players off the bench in the league at the time. You know, you thought the bones is a really good, you know, six man,

seven man, whatever role he is. And they were like, yeah, you know what? We'll just ride with Bruce Brown, see what he gives us. And then you see him in the finals and Bruce Brown has given you that

spirit. Yeah. He's giving you that, that high energy. And so I just, I just love the way the nuggets were built. And i can say this is like i said somebody covered the league for a long time mike malone's first year uh michael michael michael michael michael forgive me because i am michael yeah yeah and i actually i and and we had uh my first conversation with him

i i did a behind the scenes piece with him and the Nuggets coaching staff. And one of the first questions I asked him, I said, do you prefer to be Michael or Mike? So he asked me, do I prefer to be Michael or Mike? He said, my mother always told me that she named me Michael and not Mike. If anybody calls me Mike, let them know that I'm Michael. And he said, my mother did the same thing with me. I let everybody know that I'm Michael. So forgive me for saying that. Yeah, no, it's fine. We are Michaels and we are unified and our mother's telling us. I make fun of him about it. And it's not, it's not fair. It's just,

there's something about the name Mike Malone that wants to like my, like everybody just wants to call him Mike. I don't think it has anything to do with like disrespect or anything like that i think it just has to do with that name in particular there is a mike malone shape yeah there's a mike malone shaped like groove in the human brain that just people that it sticks and they're like wait wait like this middle syllable doesn't need to be there right but yeah it's totally not fair to make fun of them for doing that but the one thing that always stood out to me because i spent like three days with them and like i sat in this is his first year there right after he got fired by the kings and so i got to watch you know film

sessions um you know uh pre-game chats and post-game chats everything so i was really embedded for a couple days and what stood out to me during that time even then was that yokich was really special like he was doing things in practice that i had just not seen like he always made the right play and for a rookie who was coming off the bench you know and there was this big battle with him and you know you know uh nurkic and like they're trying to figure out who the future is going to be. And so, but he, but he just has like this ability to make the right play. And it was just amazing to see it right then and right there. And, um, and Mike Malone, they were almost like a father, son type relationship then. And like, he, he spoke a little bit of english but just enough to pass

but like he and malone they were always hanging out and they were always talking and joking and like i'm like this is a kind of a unique thing i didn't know i didn't know yokich was gonna be this yeah i thought he's a pretty good player but like just to see that connection between a coach and a rookie you know second round pick that you know they didn't know that they got Nikola Jokic. They got the guy in the Taco Bell. Right. You know, who got drafted during the Taco Bell. Yeah. A lot of people don't know his nickname. The Joker comes from him just being really funny. It has nothing to do with his last name. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Mike Miller was there. They would they would do fun things like, you know like play with footballs and stuff and practice

and stuff. And so at the end of practice one time, he and Mike Miller are throwing footballs in the hoop. Yeah. Like competitively trying to throw the football in the hoop. Sorry, is that impressive to you? I can just do that really easily. So I just wasn't sure. That's super easy for me. I could throw a football over a mountain.

But like there's like, Yogurt over a mountain but like they're like yogurt just sitting there and like like he's hitting the back of the backboard and like trying to guide it properly yeah and i think he got one to go in it's like this dude is like like how in the world is he throwing a foot he didn't go play a football he had a half quarter i think full court shot in the in the finals like at the end of you know yeah that front rimmed it that nobody even like made a big deal about i was like it was like just the least effort i've ever seen someone put into a full court shot and he front rimmed it and everyone's like yeah well he's really good

at basketball anyways uh yeah here's some state farm ads that's like kind of adopted them as like their their guy yeah alone was bonding with them and so like it's interesting to see like where it's all gone and like you see the photo of the yokage brothers like picking them up picking them up yeah and one thing that stood out you know in a conversation i had with michael malone was um i was asking about like some of his coaching influences because his dad brandon mal malone was a coach uh an nba and so if you look at his staff there's a lot of like former sons of nba nepo babies is what we call them on this show there's addleman there's ryan saunders like there's a lot of guys who've been around the

game their entire lifers yeah and that's the same way he he's built yeah so he's built that staff that way and um and so i asked like who some of his influences were what they you know what he learned from them and he said he told me about a conversation that he had with greg popovich in a similar conversation that i have with greg popovich i remember asking greg popovich once what loyalty means to him for the fact that like at the time he had duncan genovi and parker and like these great guys who just dedicated themselves to the Spurs and like winning championships for the Spurs and never really got caught up in flirting with other places.

I mean, obviously Duncan thought about the Magic for a second, but he stayed and he won. And he told me about what loyalty meant to him. And what Malone told me was that Popovich said that if you are a coach, you have to make sure that your players know that you love them. Because if they feel that you love them and that you care for them, you can coach them as hard as you need to. Because they know it's coming from a good place.

They know that you're not, you know, like if you bench them or you take them out of a game because they're playing poorly, it's not because they have a personal vendetta against you. It's because they're not performing the way they want you to. And so his goal was to build sincere relationships with his players. And you can see it in how they play. That's the real wisdom that you get, right, from Popovich. He told you, you have to become Papa in this way.

Then they have this new relationship um all right let's take a quick break we'll come right back we'll keep talking about the finals we'll talk about some amazing landmarks that we saw jokic and murray hit we'll be right back when you think of mexican culture you think of avocado, mariachi, delicious cuisine, and of course, lucha libre. It doesn't get more Mexican than this. Lucha libre is known globally because it is much more than just a sport and much more than just entertainment. Lucha libre is a type of storytelling. It's a dance.

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And I just have to say this one stat that like stopped us all in our tracks that jabari super producer jabari shared with us yokich became the first player to lead all players in the playoffs in points rebounds and assists in a single postseason that's unbelievable that's like for everything that we talk about right like of the comparisons and things like for people who want to compare to the past i'm like who who has this stat you know and i guess like in a way that doesn't really serve anyone but i think again it underscores just how unique of a time this is too like and especially how the two of between him and jamal murray uh you know but

they're like the first players to have record triple doubles together in a finals game they're also the first teammates to average 25 five and five during a playoff run right murray there are four players who have averaged 20 points in tennis this in a finals they are magic johnson who did in 87 88 michael jordan who you might remember played for the chicago bulls in the year 1991 when they won the title right mike jordan you're probably more familiar with him as mike um lebron 2017 2018 and then jamal murray this year that's it that's everybody um yeah like just thinking about all this, right, because we've talked about on the show how much we get

into like the debate culture side of talking about the NBA and a lot of people, especially a lot of the sports journalists we have come on are like, we're not, we're missing the point here. Like for the people who are like the stat watchers, they look at something like this and then what do they say to dismiss Jamal Murray or

dismiss Jokic? Is it just to be like, just say like yeah it was yeah he had a good run right there and then it ends there like jack i don't think i don't know what they're gonna say i don't think they can say much after this well i guess they'll just say like you know he was up and down you know after the 30 point game he didn't have 20 again right like you know they can find something right right the one thing about jamal murray that always struck me is like something that I was I was hoping that they would talk about more during the broadcast was just what a grinder he is and just how much he worked so hard to to to get to where he is, like just relentless like his dad was basically running a torture chamber with him you know to get him to become this great basketball player and it never that work ethic never left him like they had to lock him out of the gym a lot because he just wanted to work all the time he just wanted to get better and like for him to be without the game for two years like that had to drive him insane

like the tears he shed right, after they won the championship, like I felt all of that because I know like that guy loves basketball. Like that is his life. Like he is giving his all to this, to be where he is. And like, yeah, obviously he was a lottery pick the makeup of the nuggets,

you know, it's kind of these, this, you know, overlooked guys, you know, second round picks, you know,

late, late lottery picks, but know, late lottery picks. But he was a lottery pick. But he comes in with like that underdog mentality. Like he's got an underdog mentality because he's coming from Canada. And he obviously felt he was overlooked coming out of Canada because he felt like he was better than a lot of the American players that were in his draft, that were in his class, college recruiting class. And so he went to Kentucky and everything. And, you know, I didn't see this type of player atentucky which we got to really get mad at calipari because you

never do i think this is a point that i've made a couple times you really need to like we need to be drafted if you if your draft board has a uk player on it just move them up five spots because they're they are better than you think let's just they're they're always going to be better than you think almost always yeah like people are like wait anthony davis actually has an offensive game wow especially if it's a wing or perimeter player like because i feel like they don't i don't know the kentucky teams just don't like have like they don't take advantage of these people who are just the most incredible shot makers in the league now like yeah we got maxi we got murray we got booker like all of them all of them underdrafted

hero yeah there's a lot of talent to come away with one national title like right and i know they're young and you got to get the chemistry right but gosh man like you can't have all of this talent and just come with one like you got to have at least two college basketball is so weird man watching how good uh chet was when he got into that summer league after what he looked like in the NCAA tournament I was like how were they hiding this? Why were they hiding this? I get mad whenever people

tell me they like the college game more than the pro game I'm like what are you really telling me? You're telling me you don't like the best players performing at the highest level? No. I prefer a few steps below that high school game. Let's go to a high school game and see, you know, them playing for the love of the game. Cause most of these guys will never play again beyond this point. Like you're telling me this is better than the NBA.

Cause it's not like, that's why I stopped playing after high school. Uh, it was when I thought the game was at the most pure I could have played in college probably pro but I was like I don't like the it's just too much about you know the rankings and stuff like that it's not pure anymore people don't know

my stats in high school were amazing I mean I blame the fact that I also graduated in 2003 with LeBron so a lot of my stats I had the most travels in Southern California blame the fact that i also graduated in 2003 with lebron so a lot of my stats all your height you couldn't i had them i had the most travels in southern california that's pretty good that's pretty good that's worth shows your mobility yeah i've been benched uh more than any other player uh but one thing one person i do want to just put my eye on uh just just a quick shout out maybe of

jealousy is chris brown at 22 years old. This man won. Brown. You need a pronunciation guide. If you look at my hoodie, you know where he's from. Kansas, exactly. He had three high school straight championships in high school

and then NCAA title with Kansas and now an NBA champion as a rookie. I'm like, how did you just like stumble into such fantastic fortune? But like he's the fifth player to win the NCAA and NBA title in back to back seasons. That puts him in the class with Bill Russell, Henry Bibby, Magic, Billy Thompson, and now Chris. That's pretty impressive. I'm always like blown away when you see like athletes like that in any sport where like

they'll do the thing where like they went with this team and then they got traded and then they won it the next year again. And you're like, good for you. What a, I mean, like Chris Brown, I'm glad that you've had such a just turbulent free rise to the top. You're like, yeah, I can't stop winning. I'm a serial winner. Yeah.

I hope, I hope he, I hope he appreciates it. Cause you know, this is not a given that you're going to win at this level. Then the guys, your name, obviously want to wrestle. But I mean, it's just,

it's hard to win in this league. And that's why I appreciate like what the nuggets have done in terms of having the patience to, to see, you know, what Michael Malone was building and to see, you know, Yoko regained his form and to have the patience with Jamal Murray to help him come back from his knee injury

and just help him regain his confidence in himself and become that player. And you don't see that happen in the NBA. Everybody wants it right now, and they're not willing to see guys enter their prime together and see what happens. It's just like, well, he's not really looking the way we thought so we got to move on from home and then or we don't want to pay him or right but this is another another homegrown title right like the you know it was them then golden state then milwaukee all you know that they're not you know milwaukee it's not like they drafted

all their big three, but their best player was drafted by them and they built carefully and patiently around them. That's the one thing that stands out to me is that three of the last five finals MVPs were drafted outside of the lottery. Nobody knows anything.

Everybody's tanking. everybody is trying to intentionally lose for guys so they think you're going to be stars and then the thing that stands out to me and what i hope i hope um victor wiminyama can break it you know do you guys know how many number one picks have won a championship for their original organization since 1990 no take a. How many number one picks have won a championship for their original organization?

Well, you got Tim Duncan. That's, yep. Is that it? Is that it? Well, there's Kyrie. Kyrie. That's right.

But he only won because the previous number one pick came back. That's right. So LeBron came back, you know, after winning titles in Miami to win in cleveland

so we forgot about lebron right there are three in theory there are three but lebron he didn't stay there the whole way through and win and then just stay he won and then came back and won yeah like so really it's it's two or three however you want to do the numbers right but um it it just it just shows that how how much luck plays a role in this you know right and and you know i've had conversations with tim connelly about you know yokich and just you know him becoming this superstar player and he he would tell me all the time just how lucky they were like they were lucky for him to become this guy right yeah because you know they knew he had the ability obviously obviously, because they drafted him. They had faith in him.

But it wasn't like he was their top choice. Then they drafted three guys before they took him. So he, and he's the guy that now people are saying is the best player in basketball. And same thing with Giannis. Giannis went 15. And

he's the best player in basketball. He had the hype at the time yannis that like this guy could be something special but he's like a huge project it's going to take a lot of time right where he had a name it was just like they realized he was one of the best players in the league when he like five games into him being one of the best players they were like oh wait wait a second. This guy's... I mean, yeah, it is about luck. But you know who's going to need luck

in our next segment? Oh, I think I know the answer to this. Of the Washington Post. Because when we come back, it's time for the rapid fire round of questioning. Oh, boy. The most unique segment in podcasting. We'll be back with that right after this.

most unique segment in podcasting. We'll be back with that right after this. When you think of Mexican culture, you think of avocado, mariachi, delicious cuisine, and of course, lucha libre. It doesn't get more Mexican than this. Lucha libre is known globally because it is much more than just a sport

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This is Lucha Libre Behind the Mask. Listen to Lucha Libre Behind the Mask as part of My Cultura Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you stream podcasts. In a galaxy far, far away. No, babe, that's taken. We're in our own world, remember? Right. In our own world, we're two space cadets.

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We're so excited for you to hear our brand new podcast, Señora Sex Ed. Listen to Señora Sex Ed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. Yes, we are. Michael Lee, get ready because you have stumbled into the hot seat. It's time for the rapid fire round of questioning. Now, this segment is the fastest question and answer segment in all of podcasting history. Jack or I, we're going to chest pass you a question.

And that's like a hot potato. Don't think about the question. Just hit us right back with your answer. Don't expand upon the answers. And if you keep this segment going too long, we will cut you off. And if we start talking too long, you have to cut us off because we

have to maintain our status as the fastest question and answer segment. Well, see, this is why I was bad at baseball because I have bad reflexes. Well, let's try. Let's try. Let's try. I'm like, should I hit this? Should I swing this? Oh, strike two. Okay. Yeah, you're swinging on it as the catcher's throwing it back to

the pitcher. You're like, oh, you can't swing on that. Well, I couldn't play baseball. Oh, man. All right. So, here we go. We're getting into it. Rapid Fire Round of Questioning. Brian, start the clock. Brian's crying. Just for the listener.

That's fine. That's fine. That's fine. It's an intense segment, you know? But Brian knows I love him like a son, and I am his papa. That's why I go hard on him. I learned that from a great man. Jack, do you want to go first? I go first? Sure, I'll go first.

How about that? Let's see. How about that, Miles? Okay. Michael Lee, is there a single NBA player you would take right now over the chance of taking Wembley out? You are the Spurs. You've gotten the call from everybody in the league saying no wow

i like that i like that he's locked in he's locked in i'm excited about the possibilities and i'd rather take a chance on him than uh somebody established okay if it doesn't work out it's a dance that that i that i failed at but if it does then yeah we're gonna have some straight to the top. Yeah. You also couldn't do it. Cause like everybody, you, your fan base would be so mad at you. Uh,

it's like, it's like the Sixers trading Brad Doherty when they had Charles Barkley, like the wonder why he's in Phoenix. Cause you, you, you, you should have taken the best center and paired him with Barkley and try to see like the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Like they weren't the greatest team, but they were pretty good. You know, Jordan's hitting those shots. You know, they were the underdog in those series. So, but if you have,

if you have Brad Doherty and Charles Barkley, it's, you look, you probably got a couple of rings. You're probably standing in the way of Jordan. Oh yeah. Michael, now I got to ask you a question because we've got to keep this moving,

but this is one important because you've got your eye on the league. Now we're going to be talking about teams. We want to cover in the offseason. You know, who's making some moves? Who's interesting? Who do we illuminate? Spurs, obvious. Now, what's a team that you're also expecting big things from? Someone we should also keep our eye on in the postseason.

Don't sleep on them. Portland, do it. Trade Dame. Do it. Portland, do it. Trade Dame. Do it now. What are you waiting for? Don't even waste anybody's time. He's given you 12 years or 11 years. He's had enough time sitting on that throne. And you have a Western Conference Final Strip for it.

And it's great. You shake his hand. You admire him. Call him the greatest player ever. But give him a chance to win and give you a chance to move forward as a franchise. Trying to win with him, you're not going to compete with the top teams in the West. No matter what you try to trade the number three pick for right trade him get some pieces go forward draft scoop and then try to try to see where you can go the next 10 years i feel like you know and i'm not

somebody who's against loyalty or somebody who thinks that you shouldn't stay committed to guys but you know right now their partnership is going nowhere. And I think it's best for both of them to just move on. And Dame will be happier because especially if he's traded to a place like Miami where he'll still be the man and he'll still get, you know, praise as sort of the guy who pushed him over the hump. I say do it. And don't worry about what you get in return because it

doesn't matter you just gotta you gotta go in a different direction you trade is anyone is anyone talking about phoenix as a potential uh destination like they get chris paul to come in and be the the guy who is the tutor the veteran tutor for scoop you say chris paul as a tutor i don't i don't see that happening. Chris Paul is still a competitive guy who wants to win championships. He ain't the big brother trying to teach guys. He's trying to win, and I don't see him playing that role. He's somebody that needs to go somewhere where he can win, too.

And I don't know what Phoenix is going to do, man. They just got a messy roster. The only thing I think they could do is what they did. And that's higher, you know, Vogel as, as a coach, you know, I think that if Vogel can get something out of Aiden,

that's, that's, that can elevate their ceiling, you know, and, you know, and people say, you know,

Vogel wasn't a good hire. I'm like, well, I happen to recall a guy named Roy Hibbert who became an all-star playing for Frank Vogel. Right. That's crazy. We haven't seen him since, right? But he was considered an elite big man for a long time playing for Frank Vogel.

And what were AD's best years with the Lakers? Who was the coach? Yeah. I'm a big Vogel guy. Give him a chance to see what he can do with him. If he gets on he, you know, gets on Booker's nerves or Katie's nerves, cause he's not playing hard and ship them.

Like I think that you have a guy who can get you 18 and 12 and maybe he can give you more, but he's, he's also got to be somebody who has the support of the coach. Yeah. Michael, what is your favorite NBA city to visit? And what's your must havehave meal in that town? It changes so much. You know, I have like a top five.

Yeah. But I'll just say... Give us one we wouldn't expect. Underrated good city. I mean, New York is obviously the one I usually get excited about. Yeah, yeah. I actually get excited about Boston. Favorite meal in Boston?

I go to Legal Seafood and get a, uh, lobster roll. Bread bowl? Okay. Oh, okay. Lobster roll. I like that. I like that. But you know, you know, underrated city, very underrated city restaurants in, in South

of, sort of cool, like late night, kind of like jazzy bars, this kind of stuff. San Antonio, man. Yeah. San Antonio has, has a lot going on. Go to a great steakhouse or go to a great barbecue restaurant. Michael Lee, I got to ask you a serious question now. Okay. Because we got to keep this, you know, we're putting it all on the line right now.

We're putting it all on the line, Michael. But this next question is a very hot button issue. Jalen Rose's hair? Well, oh, that's a question. But it's a statement. It's a work of art. Okay. Just take it where you want to go i just it's like an avenue i'm throwing it up i'm just seeing what you do with it okay it's a work of art like his barber needs to go into like he needs to teach others i want him to work with me i want him to give me that line and give me all that stuff that jaylen got going on because jaylen i remember

you know had the shaved head yeah yeah now i'm looking at him and he's got like he's got the fullest head of hair like it's yeah it's barber his barber is excellent like i there's nobody with a better hairline i mean or lineup than him like he's yeah it's a work of art it's one of the best truly all best and finally the question that we've all been waiting for Michael Lee, Jack or Miles oh between you two?

y'all both got love man I ain't picking who has more love if you had to save one of us if you got the measuring tape it's a game of inches

you know what I mean it's the trolley experiment who you taking man I can't I can't do that man alright I just met you guys and I enjoyed

the conversation I don't want to have somebody pissed off at the end we love that well there you have it Michael Lee of the Washington Post

is a humanist and someone with a kind heart who will not choose between all of his creatures. Michael Lee, thank you so much for joining us on Miles and Jack got mad boosties. Where can people find you, follow you, support you, read you, do all that kind of stuff? Well, obviously, you can find me at the Washington Post. You can find me on Twitter at Mr. Michael Lee. And yeah, you know know i don't cover the nba full time anymore i'm a sports enterprise writer you know and i deal with issues of race sport and society so i do a lot of different things but every now and then they they call

me back in to do some nba stuff because i still have love for the game and uh i feel like i still have a little expertise in it but uh it's tough it's tough when i'm not around and talking to execs as much as i used to but i still feel like i know the game good enough to make comments on twitter that don't sound too stupid absolutely well you just boned up on your nba bona fides uh by talking to two of the great minds in nba, Miles and Jack. I love Miles and Jack. I'm at Boosties. You know, I had a suspense come to you guys. Maybe you can rub up on me.

Help me love hip-hop again. Yeah, that's right. Well, make sure you give us a follow on Twitter. You can find me at Miles of Gray. Where do they find you, Jack? You can find me

at Jack underscore O'Brien. Yeah. And hit up hashtag Matt Boosties for show links and updates because we'll be posting stuff there, asking questions. And shout out to this week's listener. Please rate and review the podcast. Gross, negligent

leftist five-star review that said, I've been a huge Miles and Jack fan since season two of the Daily Zeitgeist. Wow. I had to step back from having politics content for mental health reasons. I'm so happy to get to experience their hilarious lived-in chemistry focused on basketball. They're as knowledgeable as any other sports

podcast. Oh my, who wrote this? Me? While being funnier and more relatable than all of them. Oh my goodness. Thank you so much for these wonderful reviews. Please make sure you leave them too because we read them and we cry over them when they're not good. Did you write that, Jabari? Jabari did write that and he only gave us

two stars. Yeah. That's how you know. It doesn't match, though. But that is going to do it for us this week on Miles and Jack. I'm Matt Boosties. Please check back in with us next week as we take our journey into the in-between times. The silly season, as it were. Silly season. To talk about the upcoming everythings.

Silly season coming. That we don't know how to work. We're not going to Dallas. Yeah. That's right. You'll have to find out. the upcoming everything's trade machine that we don't know how to work yeah that's right you'll have to find out listen to that and many other wild speculations

only on Miles and Jack Got Mad alright we'll see you next time bye bye señora sex ed is not your mommy's sex talk this show is la platica like you've never Thank you. We're your hosts, Diosa and Mala. You might recognize us from our first show, Locatora Radio.

Listen to Señora Sex Ed on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's so much beauty in Mexican culture, like mariachre Behind the Mask, a 12-episode podcast in both English and Spanish about the history and cultural richness of Lucha Libre. And I'm your host, Santos Escobar, emperor of Lucha Libre and a WWE superstar. Listen to Lucha Libre Behind the Mask on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you stream podcasts. What happens when a professional football player's career ends and the applause fades and the screaming fans move on? I am going to share my journey of how I went from Christianity to now a Hebrew Israelite. For some former NFL players, a new faith provides answers. You mix homesteading with guns and church.

Voila! You got straight away. They try to save everybody. Listen to Spiraled on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.