The Daily Zeitgeist - Modern Knight = Scared Man? The Power of Chocolate 11.23.22

Episode Date: November 23, 2022

In episode 1379, Miles and guest co-host Joelle Monique are joined by award-winning author and host of OBSESSIONS: Wild Chocolate, Rowan Jacobsen, to discuss… Y’all OK on the Right? Died Suddenly: The Viral Anti-Vax Movie Is Hilariously Easy To Debunk, Macho Camps For Sad Rich Men Are … Also Sad,  A Whole Lotta Food Talk and more! Died Suddenly: The Viral Anti-Vax Movie Is Hilariously Easy To Debunk 'I could have died': Florida Gators star Keyontae Johnson opens up about on-court collapse ‘Verified’ anti-vax accounts proliferate as Twitter struggles to police content Macho Camps For Sad Rich Men Are … Also Sad Reddit Thread: Buried Alive = Real Man? This boot camp for men claims it’ll revive your ‘primal nature’ LISTEN: Cocoon by 070 ShakeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me for I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and Shekinah Church. Listen to Forgive Me for I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just

starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports.

Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeartWomenSports. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. What was that? That was live audio

of a woman's nightmare. Can Kay trust her sister, or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, the internet, and welcome to season 264 episode three of the daily psych guys. Wow. One more day till Turkey day. It's a production of I heart radio. This is the podcast

where we take a deep dive into America's shared consciousness. It's Wednesday, November 23rd. I mean, there's so much going on this week, but it is National Espresso Day, National Eat a Cranberry Day, National Cashew Day, National Jukebox Day, and National Tie One On Day. I'm Miles Gray, a.k.a. Miles of Gravy. I forget. I think it was Paul Garaventa on Twitter who gave me that a.k.a. Because, yeah, it's true. It's we got we got to have the Thanksgiving food themed names. And I am thrilled to be joined by my guest co-host. Again, I don't know how many how long of an intro i'm gonna do here but her takes are sound her movie suggestions unflappable okay is

she does she have one of the kindest spirits and voices you've ever experienced yeah probably is she also a fantastic producer writer and all these other things, yes, I could name them all, but I'd rather just call her Joelle Monique! Hi, Miles. Welcome. Thank you, Joelle. Such a delicious intro. So nice of you. Good to see you. Good to see you. Are you excited for tomorrow? Yeah, I've had Thanksgiving with the same

college friends for the past six years. We have spreadsheets and oven schedules. It's a very tenuous and and amazing celebration because they you know they're the friends that like to experiment and spend too much money on food so you're not going to their house yeah so it's gonna be good i'm excited oh well look let's get into our guest our guest is a jamesard award-winning author. Okay.

This man knows food. He's written literal books on apples. I can't believe Jack is not here. It's called Apple. The Essential Oyster. Okay. Shadows on the Gulf. And also his latest podcast, Obsessions Wild Chocolate.

You know, on my heart. I'll check it out. Please help me. Welcome to the microphone, Mr. Roland Jacobson. What's up, Roland? Hey, happy Cranberry Day. I didn't even know. Yeah.

Yes. Go to your favorite bog and, you know, pull up a fresh one. I actually do. I have a bog right up the road from me with cranberries in it. I'm going to have to go check them out and see if they're there. What magical world do you live in, Rowan? New England? Do you live in Massachusetts or something? Well, Vermont, yeah.

We have a few. We don't have as many in Massachusetts. But, you know, if you know where to look, they're here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I've always been, I never knew how cranberries were grown until like an ocean spray commercial from the late 90s. Where like a guy was in like the overalls, like in a pit. And like what the fuck is going on here have you ever seen those crazy photos of what it looks like when they get harvested like from above you know they float water it to like right the cranberries up and you know they're bright red so then from above it's just like these huge chunks

of color like red and then the blue water. And it looks like a surreal painting or something. I'm still don't know. How do you grow a cranberry? What's the point? What do you need the bog for? They like it wet, I guess. So, you know, they're like these little short plants, you know, and they have like the little red berries, but they're only like a foot high. So, and they grow in like standing water. Got it. Got it. Got it. I don't know. don't know. I'm not a cranberry expert, I admit. But I think to harvest them, you go in and you just beat the bushes to knock all the berries off into the water. And then you basically float the water.

You corral them into big circles of red that are floating on the water. And then you scoop them up. Farming is such a wild thing because Cause I always picture it like in movies it's like, and then we gently like plucked this corn from the stock and like shucked it with like gentle farmer hands and there's like golden light everywhere. But then like, if you've ever seen an olive tree harvest, they just throw nets everywhere and start smacking the trees.

They're like, get out of there olives. It's, it's, I feel like I can have fun, more fun than movies have made it seem. Right. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of smacking have made it seem anyway. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. There's a lot of smacking involved with farming, it turns out. Yeah. I want to stomp grapes, you know? Yeah, exactly. I know you've stomped a few grapes in your day, Rowan. I'll have to ask you about that later. It's fun.

Yeah. I highly recommend it. Well, let's give people a quick preview of what we're going to be talking about today. Just checking in over there with some presidential candidate activity, specifically Mike Pompeo, former Secretary of State, who's identified the biggest threat to the United States. And I don't quite agree what that is. Then we're going to talk about, you know,

because Twitter is just verifying whoever these days, this, like, I don't know if you saw this phrase, died suddenly, was trending on Twitter, like, over the last few days. It's a fucking dumb, it's a quote-unquote documentary about the COVID vaccine, but it's so poorly made and researched. I don't even know why it's up there. Oh, because there's no moderation on Twitter. So we'll talk about that and just all kinds of interesting things that are discussed there. We'll talk about macho camps for sad rich guys to the modern day night project.

I don't know if you saw this, but this is like a thing where guys can get screamed at by more buff dudes and then feel like men after. Have they not heard of the Navy SEALs? Well, they have. Well, you have. Well, dude, my fucking guy, dude, donkey. He used to be a SEALs? Well, they have. It's right there. Well, you have. Well, dude, my fucking guy, dude, Donkey, he used to be a SEAL. So he trains us. So it's all good. So we'll take a deep dive into like this whole entire industry.

And it's just like a terrible grift for, you know, people with a very fragile sense of self. And talk a little bit about food since we have Rowan here and I have a lot of questions. It's a real bleak picture of America and then food. So I appreciate it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or food, then bleak picture of America. Look, either one, we're going to get, we're getting all of our, we're eating today. But first, Rowan, got to ask you, our guest, what is something from your search history

that is, you know, reveals something about who you are or what you're currently searching, I guess? You know, I actually look back. I was like, who am I? What can I tell from my search? And what quickly was revealed to me is that I have been checking the snow report a whole. I live in Vermont, so I've been checking the snow report a lot the past few days because there's a great cross-country ski place like half an hour away from me. Oh, wow. And like winter just hit Vermont hard out of nowhere

like a week ago. Like I got back from a trip and there was snow on the ground. I was like, I'm not ready. But then after like, you know, a short batch of depression, I was like, but snow. So then I started checking the ski report

and yeah, this one ski place just open. So that's my winter salvation. How's still looking? I'm there. They're open for sure. Down, down, hell places like stuff.

They're, they're going. Yeah. Okay. Good to know. I'm saying the one ski place I know in Vermont. I used to play hockey in that area. So like I went there once and I was like,

yeah, I know about Stowe, but wait, so did you grow up in New England? Yeah, I did in Vermont. Wow. Okay. So that's very like the way you just talk about, it's like, yeah, I know about Stoke. But wait, so did you grow up in New England? Yeah, I did in Vermont. Wow. Okay.

So that's very like the way you just talk about it's like, yeah, the winter comes. I'm from the San Fernando Valley in LA where we have no seasons. So whenever I hear like, or even you, Joelle, or like Justin talk about Chicago and like winter, I'm like, wow. And your coats, they don't get hot, right? When you're walking around, you don't get hot in your jacket. You got to take it off in the little street cool cool cool so i'm always i love i love hearing people be like a jacket can't get sweaty a 20 degrees can be like a curse and a blessing you know because it's 20 degrees is like the cold you can stand you're like it's definitely

cold but it's also cold i want to die. Right. You know, but anything below that, suddenly you're like, it's okay if my body shuts down. Wow. I shouldn't have to be faced with this level of brisk air hitting my skin. 20 degrees sounds like certain death for me. But, Rowan, where are you at? What's your temperature scale like as a Vermonter? Yeah, 20 is kind of like that magic tip where, tip where if you're out doing stuff in it, exercising, you're pretty warm.

You're like, oh, it's not so bad. Once it gets down to the teens, even if you're working pretty hard, it's pretty freaking cold. Right. If you haven't done a winter before, remember to pop out your piercings before you go into the cold.

My roommates had learned that the hard way. What? Also from California. Yes, the metal will freeze your skin. Oh, wow. Yeah. Dude, we're just so laid back in California, man. Like, what are you talking about?

They're like two hoodies is like a coat, right? Like, no. Yo, I even know that. No, two hoodies is not a coat. And don't lick a metal ladder. I did that once when I was a kid. Oh, no. That's California math for you.

Rowan, what is something you think is overrated? All right. So I'm going to get myself into trouble with this one. All right. Go ahead. I've started to think. So I'm a professional food writer, right? I do a lot of tasting, like closely thinking about, oh, does this go with this and so on?

I'm starting to think red wine is overrated. that's whoa yeah exactly go on tell me why i mean like admittedly rowan i i know i know i know about wine but i'm not like my palate isn't that discerning like i know different varietals but i'm not out, most of the time I'm like, is it screw top or cork? But what, what do you tell me? Like, walk me through so I can, I can say something cool at Thanksgiving and be like, Oh, y'all drink your red wine. Yeah, I go for it. I think you should. So yeah. Um, like red wine is kind of considered like the ultimate drink, right? It's really concentrated, intense flavor, a lot going on going on and you know white wine is kind of kind of considered like you know for lightweight it's a little bit oh like for like if you fuck with wine like you want the reds because they're like there's so much white okay you know white's fine but then you know we want real flavor you're going for red and like the really really really

expensive bottles are all red like the super like you know like the two thousand dollar bottles are all red oh yeah that's true you never see someone like and here's my six thousand dollar rose correct something like exactly exactly yeah yeah like rose 20 bucks it's maxed out right so red wine's supposed to be super great but like you know like i do all i spent all this time like tasting stuff like drinking different things with different foods and i'm just starting to think like man this red wine is kind of like overdone. It's like somebody should have taken the skins out before it got so red. It feels like a flaw.

And like, you know, beer and white wine and other things, I think go better with food. But that's a very controversial thing to say. Yeah. In the snooty foodie world. Yeah, I'm sure. Because everyone's like, you gotta have like red meat. You gotta have red wine. Exactly. And I'm always like, all right. And I tried to do that where people like, no, it really enhances the flavor. But I'm the kind of person who does not drink liquids when they eat. Like, I don't. I'm like an end of meal drinker. Like nothing, not even water. I don't sip. I don't wash it down. I'm like, I'm focused on the meal. That's just how I, that's how I've gotten down since the beginning of times. But so like when people have always been like, you got to try that with this.

I'm always like, okay. And I'm like, and then after like have this red one, I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, it's not like, doesn't put a terrible taste in my mouth, but that's also not like necessarily the culinary experience I seek all the time. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a rosé girl.

And if they offered a $600 bottle of rosé, I would be the kind of person to buy it. I'd be like, what's happening? Is it sparkly? Did they put gold in it? Right.

I wonder if that's why like everybody drinks natural wines and shit now. Like I feel like that's become like a real popular thing now. Less so than like, you know,

drinking a full-bodied Chianti or something. Is everyone's like, oh, skin contact. full bodied Chianti or something is everyone's like, Oh, skin contact, natural wines. That's what I always see. Yeah, for sure. For sure. That's how that's happening.

And it's sort of, it's starting to like undercut this whole, like this myth that red wine, the good red wines are these super concentrated ones. Yeah. Good. I'm glad to, I'm glad you said that wrong. Cause whenever I taste those, I'm like, bro, what the fuck? It's hard for me to be like, oh, my goodness, you're right. Were these like Spanish oak casks?

There's no way I could do that. Keep the Spanish oak away. Just give me a beer. Yeah, at that point, I'm like, thank you so much. But I don't know if I can pretend along with everyone like this. What is something you think is underrated rowan one thing i've been noticing and tell me tell me if you if y'all are having this experience or not because i'm like i live in the country so i'm not in like a city all

the time but i've noticed that you know after covid you weren't having a lot of like just like minor interactions with people the stuff that you normally do every day. And then you had masks on. And now I've just been noticing how like, if I'm just like, in the city for a day, or in town, no, and no one's got masks, everyone's back to sort of like those normal, stupid, meaningless interactions, you know, just like you're chatting with your barista and the person cutting your hair and the person post office. And I've noticed like at the end of the day, I'm like in a really good mood because of those stupid little interactions that we didn't have for like two or three years, you know? Sure.

So I'm starting to think that's underrated, that stuff that doesn't really mean anything, but it just sort of like is, you know. Yeah. Human connection, you know, I think is, yeah, that's like powerful. Even in a like less, I guess, monumental way, you know yeah human connection you know i think yeah that's like powerful even if even in a like less i guess monumental way you know it's like nice to even like when i go and like go to my coffee shop like i'm now i chat everybody up me too because like you see you see people there all the time and now i just say oh hey like not even to be like hey what's going on with you like

i don't necessarily put on the biggest conversation but but I am much more like, hey, all right, I'm acknowledging you. What's going on, fellow person out there? Yeah, I'm shit at small talk. I really hate it. But I do find myself being like, you good? You got what you need? Okay, like it's like on set or something. I was talking to the grip the other day.

I'm like, how you doing? He's like, I'm always good. I'm like, that's great. And then we just sat in silence for 20 minutes while everybody else ate. It was really peaceful and nice. I'm like, that's great. And then we just sat in silence for 20 minutes while everybody else ate. It was really nice. It was like, it was very peaceful and nice. I appreciate it. That's that very small moment. Is it like, Rowan, what is it about those pleasantries that you think, like, that are so fulfilling for you? Is it just, is it, is it purely because you're kind of like, oh, that's right. Like I, I kind of in the heights of the pandemic when people were

you know locked up and stuff like that like we shifted gears and maybe dulled that need to like sort of interact with people and now that's coming back or what what for you what do you feel is like the the thing that's given it life for you yeah i think you hit it i think it's just those little reminders of human connection that you know we like, we're a super social species. And we like just those little like minor, you know, shooting the shit in ways that don't matter. It just helps us remember that we're part of a group and that we like, we like have like, you know, 19 out of 20 things in common, even though we often focus on the 20th thing, you know? Right, right, right. Yeah, for sure.

Man, I would say that, you know, there's so many studies that come out that always reinforce this of like, just like saying hello to a friend that you haven't talked to ends up like boosting, like everyone involves like wellbeing after a call like that. I just randomly like hit up my friend yesterday because I was going to text him.

I was like, you know, I'm going to call just to challenge somebody, just call somebody you meant to text and you'll you'll be surprised i thought i was just gonna check in for like 10 minutes we talked for an hour yeah that's so sweet it's always nice to you know have those moments because you forget it's really easy to forget because we connect to each other in so many like non-verbal ways with technology and shit you gotta remember the good old days like when we were in middle school talking on a landline. Oh yeah. The good old days.

I know I in the shit out of our parents. What a time. When they're like, you need to get off this phone. Okay. Okay. Mom. Just five more minutes.

Didn't you just see them at school? You will see them tomorrow. Yes. I know. Okay. So both of y'all paying the phone bill? Well, we got mom, we got Vonage.

I thought because it's Vonage, we don't pay because it's hooked up to the internet. Oh, now you're getting smart. It's totally fine. I'll tell Auntie you can call her back later. Don't even worry about it. Yeah, you know, that's another thing that's underrated is landlines. I think landlines are underrated, you know, now that most of us don't have them anymore. I mean, that's like a new genre of content on TikTok Which is like young Gen Z kids being like

What in the fuck is this thing Watching them try to dial is so adorable They're like what Don't show them a rotary phone Did you see that video of like the two black girls Like at their house And the mom was just taping them She's like I can't believe they are getting the biggest kick

They're like mama what's this sound She's like the dial tone She was like wait does it actually call She's like, the dial tone? She was like, wait, does it actually call? She's like, call me on my cell phone. She's like, what is happening? When it was ringing, her face lit up.

She's like, the ancient thing made my phone buzz. How? Yeah. Do you have a landline, Rowan? Not anymore. We got rid of it. I'm going to seem like a dinosaur to you guys if I admit this but when i was a kid this was in vermont from i was a little behind we had not just a landline but a party line you know what a party line is no so like where you could call and like a bunch of people like like anyone could talk on it basically anyone on our road it was all one line right so every it would everyone when there was a phone call, it would ring for everybody

and whoever would pick up. And then you'd all have to figure out who it was actually for, who it was actually for. And then everyone else was supposed to hang up, but you couldn't always tell. Oh my God. Wow.

That sounds better than Twitter. Imagine the gossip. Yeah. Like open DMs, party DMs? Right, exactly. It was the party dm in back of its day oh hell no when i think back i'm like i cannot believe that existed you know right i mean yeah could you yeah i feel like in our day and age like if people had the ability

like just people would just be like no one would be hanging up and then like weaponizing that information against like the person yeah and some of that happened back then too, to be honest. Yeah, I'm sure. Right. It was always tempting to not hang up, you know?

Wait, so if someone, and now, okay, so if someone called, let's presume it was, the phone call was for your house, but it only rang like twice and maybe you forgot and like you didn't,

and you weren't there to pick it up and everyone's like, I don't know who you're calling for. They're like, well, that's not me, but you're not there. Would you just be like, call back and then we'll all know to not pick up okay so yeah so everyone you just had to work it out and the reality was that people just

didn't make that many phone calls back then right right i'm just still i know joel you're thinking the same thing i am like how fucking messy would things get it would be way too messy well actually i had two thoughts so like if that existed today i don't know my neighbors that well you know what i mean i'd be like who they'd be like you know the address right next to yours i'd be like i literally never met him like sorry call again and then my other thought was like yeah it would be messy but imagine i was thinking about like my high school self you know he was like a small clique of like girl crew. That would have been amazing. Oh, yeah. We could all just pick just somebody calls and be like, crisis. We're all like, what? How can we help? We're all here immediately.

Or just knowing like when I pick up the phone, my friends are always talking most likely. Also that. Oh, okay, I know y'all were there. Hey, what's going on? Okay, so this is going on. Exactly. Just pick it up. Also that. Oh, okay. I know y'all were there. Hey, what's going on?

Okay. So this is going on. I'm going to just listen just to be comforted by the voices. I don't have anything to say. Just, yeah, I'm here. Y'all go ahead. Just listening in. It's the lonely lurker.

Magical. All right. Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back to talk about Mike Pompeo right after this. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and LA-based Shekinah

Church, an alleged cult that has impacted members for over two decades. Jessica and I will delve into the hidden truths between high control groups and interview dancers, church members, and others whose lives and careers have been impacted, just like mine. Through powerful, in-depth interviews with former members and new, chilling firsthand accounts, the series will illuminate untold and extremely necessary perspectives. Forgive Me For I Have Followed will be more than an exploration. It's a vital revelation aimed at ensuring these types of abuses never happen again. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I've been thinking about you. I want you back in my life. iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. hours. BPM 110, 120. She's terrified. Should we wake her up? Absolutely not. What was that? You didn't figure it out? I think I need to hear you say it. That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. This machine is approved and everything? You're allowed to be doing this?

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And we're back. And another day, another wildly messed up thing being uttered by someone in the Republican Party. Today's presenter of terrible ideas is former Secretary of state and big time fan of the end times mike pompeo uh he's kept pretty he's been pretty coy about you know whether or not he's running more in the sense that he isn't outright saying it but it keeps me like i don't know but i you know i have a pack set up and i'm doing a lot of press which would indicate that i am ramping up for a presidential run. And, you know, we saw like many other people do this. Mike Pence had his like terrible, awful, awkward town hall last week on CNN where like Jake Tapper tried to have like a Iyanla Van Zandt style intervention for him. It's like, you can still be mad at Donald Trump, Mike Pence. Yeah, I would be too.

You don't like, what is, are you okay? And then we've seen Ron DeSantis like, he's like winking at the camera, like Jim from the office when he's asked about like whether or not he's going to run. He's like, I don't know, folks. I'm just waiting for Trump to implode and then I will come, you know, come to life. But we'll see what happens with that man. But the man who is secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, he, this is a guy who was looking at all the threats that the country faces from, you know, a geopolitical perspective. He has identified the greatest threat to our country in a recent interview.

And I'm just going to let you know who that is. He said, I get asked, who's the most dangerous person in the world? Is it Chairman Kim? Switch those up. Is it Chairman Kim? Is it Xi Jinping? The most dangerous person in the world is Randy Weingarten.

Now, Randy Weingarten, she is the head of the teachers' union. What? He identified her as the most dangerous person. He said, it's not a close call. If you ask, who's the most likely to take this republic down? It would be the teachers' unions and the filth that they're teaching our kids and the fact that they don't know math and reading or writing.

Oh, interesting, sir. He said these are things that candidates should speak about, speak to in a way that says, here's the problem. Here's a proposal for how to solve it. And if given the opportunity, these are the things I will go work on and try and deliver that outcome that fixes that problem. I think it is interesting in this instance to see like the Republicans realize that like actually connecting outcomes to policy ideas is a thing that people seeking office should do. Although, sadly, these policies and ideas are a little off. Like the biggest thing that he's saying is that like if they're teaching like stuff like the 1619 project and that this country was founded on a racist idea quote if those are the things people are entered the seventh grade deeply embedded in their understanding of america it's difficult to understand how xi jinping's claim that america is in decline won't prove true oh so many thoughts so many

that's a that's a big that's a big swing and i think again they're trying to find a way i think for like republicans running in the primary for office they're trying to find a thing that's like well overt racism didn't do well or like misogyny and the denial of like body autonomy what if we like kind of do an end around by like shaking the education tree and kind of using that as like the venue to begin to say like these like liberals are going to groom your kids in schools and also learn about stuff. So first, it's super funny to hear people be like, yes, slavery was here, but was it racist? Question mark. Right. Not an ideal we were found out it's literally

what the hell happened it's just very bizarre but then too coming after teachers it feels like the most witch hunty thing the republicans have done in a hot minute is that they'll poison your children be terrified like i don't i they're teachers they're just like have you met one they literally just want to help your kid be educated get through their day most of them Like, I don't, they're teachers. They're just like, have you met one? They literally just want to help your kid be educated, get through their day. Most of them are spending huge chunks of their paycheck on stocking their class with like supplies and stuff. Like, you couldn't go after, like, one, I know it's better to go after people without means because then, you know, if you have your legal day in court, you can just outpay

them and outpace them in a court trial but i also just think like for the most part teachers have community on their side because unlike you know local police they're active members of their community so this is a very foolish like angle to try to take i don't i know like anti-elitism is like as far as like you know higher education is very popular but not the sixth grade teachers i feel like they're missing their they're going to miss their audience on this well i think they've found a lot of success there like you've seen these school board meetings like a lot of people are finding that that is a place where they can try and you know act out this kind of change sure quote that they're looking for but yeah it is i think

it is it does seem like a very i mean, you're talking about people who are dedicating their lives to educating your kids. And I think this kind of, I think this is also going part and parcel with the general like theme of panic around the youth vote in the midterms also. And I think they're starting to be like oh these younger kids are like what what the heck are they learning that they're like they're they're voting for body autonomy and access to health care yeah those damn kids i love the tough ones so proud of them they're out here doing it yeah we'll see what happens i just i don't think that they're going to be able to sustain this type of attack because even the school boards were mostly about like the library and books they have access to and not individual teachers

you might have like on a local level like small gripes with a specific teacher maybe someone's too outspoken or whatever we've certainly seen that happen around the country where like oh this teacher is out and people don't like that or right you know they put up gay pride stuff in the lobby horrifying they suggested the students read beloved by tony morrison like huh oh it will scar your children but it's a scarring they need okay it's appropriate what's what's kind of the tone in vermont rowan, as it relates to schooling and things like that? Because I know, I mean, I feel like every state is experiencing some form of chaos around education. Yeah, for sure.

It's quieter here just because the towns are so small. Right. You know, a typical town would be like a thousand people. So you might only have like 80 kids in the school. So like everyone kind of knows each other. And it seems like that often that kind of like takes the edge off. Like, you know, Twitter, you get people get into huge fights because they can't see each other. They don't know each other.

And they're pretty sure they're never going to run into each other. Like in Vermont, you're pretty sure you're going to run into everybody. So it kind of keeps it a little more civil. Yeah, or you never know when you might pick up the party line. They might be on the other end of the party line. Yeah, exactly. There's a lot keeping these things together. But yeah, again, it's just a lot of noise coming out,

I think, as a party tries to figure out, like just combing through the ashes of their midterm platform. Like, okay, so none of that was that great. They don't like election denialism and some of these other things. Yeah. Hitting on the teachers is not going to work much better for them, I feel like somehow, you know. Yeah. And it's it's really it's kind of alarming because even like in the you know, in the light of the the that, you know, hate attack in Coloradoado over the weekend you're still seeing conservatives like just continue to double down on this like rhetoric of like and there are these people who are trying to harm your kids and that you know half the time that they're they're they're wanting to sort of

guide that road into and it's the teachers and not the countless people like clergy that we read about every week in some like new investigation but maybe that's only happening in schools i think they'll keep doubling down on it until it hurts them in the primaries and that's i'm gonna be curious in 2024 to see if right yeah because that's when like people like joe biden's yeah started shifting when he's like okay so those people got okay i'll take a little bit of that idea, but I won't have to do it later. But I will say I will collect the right opinions. Thank you so much. Yeah, we shall see.

Speaking of just terrible ideas, you know, Twitter has been you're up, you're down, you're up, you're down looking at this thing. The last thing we heard is like Elon was saying the verified thing where I'm going to I got to I got to figure this out. like Elon was saying, the verified thing where I'm going to, I got to, I got to figure this out. It's like, turns out too many people want to impersonate brands and give out free insulin or talk about, you know, military government overthrows by fruit companies. But I think there's this, the other thing about like around moderation is a huge issue that isn't really talked about as much. I think as everyone is either just like dunking on elon reply guys or just kind of doing their like it's been a pleasure performing with you this night on the deck of the titanic type tweets but the phrase died suddenly has been trending on

twitter and i was like what the fuck is this it's so it's a documentary that's streaming on twitter first of all and it purports to quote present the truth about the greatest ongoing mass genocide in human history. Is it a white genocide? AKA COVID vaccines. Oh. That's what it is. It's mass genocide, okay? And it's called Died Suddenly.

And you're like, oh, wow, like, what is going on? And this shouldn't surprise anyone. The film never actually proves that anyone died suddenly because of the vaccine it just instead makes like the most outlandish spurious mendacious even connections between like the like introduction of the vaccine and just other events that happened completely unrelated like there Like, there's no context. There's no scientific. There's, like, not one, like, a bit of scientific evidence.

It's really just, like, the vaccines came out and this guy fell down. What do you think about that? Like, so, there were just, like, pictures of blood clots. Like, and then they're just, like, okay, so what is this? No one really saying that. They're just being like, yeah, blood clot, like just saying like buzzwords. And again, the whole quote unquote documentary features a lot of footage of people who they,

again, the title says died suddenly, except for the fact that like these people that are in there, not only they say they didn't, it's not that they collapsed as a result of getting the vaccine. These people didn't even fucking die. it's just this like really really opportunistic grift so okay there's a whole twitter thread that's going through this documentary looking at the quote-unquote deaths in this like like in this trailer uh-huh and a lot of them can be

debunked because they were like newsy moments. Like there was a woman who stumbled like on a train platform because she hadn't eaten all day. But like in a vacuum, the footage is like this woman stumbled off a train platform. But admittedly, she was like, my blood sugar is low. I just didn't eat. And that's what happened. Were they saying that she stumbled off the platform because she got the vaccine? That's the implication. Yes. Then they even show like the vaccine? That's the implication. Yes.

Then they even show like because the whole thing's like died. Then they showed like like one of these like royal guards at Buckingham Palace who like fainted because that happens a lot, too. Like it's not a thing you haven't seen with like those like guards who just stand in a full uniform with locked knees. You'd pass out. Yeah. with locked knees. You'd pass out. Yeah.

Then they showed this, uh, basketball player from Florida, Keontae Johnson, who like he, he, this was headlines. He collapsed in a game in December of 2020. And which was before he could have been vaccinated.

Like, unless he like pulled up with a fake ID is like, I'm high risk and a senior citizen. Can I get a vaccine? They're like, that's that, that's not what has happened. And he even said, he just like had nothing. Like, I'm high risk and a senior citizen. Can I get a vaccine? They're like, that's that that's not what has happened. And he even said he just like had nothing like I just I just passed out. And like, it was very scary for me. That's what happened. Nothing to do with the vaccine.

So it's again, this has been so clearly like not a obviously just a bad faith, like, you know, shot at when the pun is intended at like covid misinformation you know and if you're asking yourself is this elon musk's fault well yes of course like first of all the the account is verified so a lot of people like have just been watching it who are not very savvy and i think it's it just like the overall reception of it has been some people kind of retweeting it but mostly people being like what how are you gonna let this be on the platform right now like this is so this isn't even good and again these people are like grifting because they're just asking people for money at the end

oh really money for what wait but are they promising anything and they're like hey help us further investigations i think just to you know you know, just to get, just to get more, just to get the facts out, you know, it's the same thing all these grifters do. It's like you just, you present this like just gigantic, unfathomable battle that has to be done. And you're like, and I know how to fight it and just give me some money to do it. So, you know, I'll take care of it for you. Money will solve all your problems yeah wow this is feels to me as like a very long time adamant twitter user like the first step in a pivot toward 4chan right which i think is the direction that's going i mean a lot of elon's fanboys live there on reddit i think they're

gonna some of them will migrate to twitter right we're already seeing a giant exodus of people from the platform. And I think everyone who stayed has sort of that will eventually leave state as an opportunity to be like, A, they want to see like the burning, like what happens in the final days of Twitter. But two, you know, there's still a lot of questions like, where do we go? I think I found the solution i think it's hive it's hive it's where it's at man it's a perfect combination of instagram and twitter and then like a dash of my space if they add a top eight it's really over for everybody it's so much fun and it's very like chill i'm sure i'm almost hesitant to like spread the word

because this feels like the right amount of everyone a lot of people on twitter have i've been seeing everybody being like hey man i think the party's over on hive and then it's fun as hell well i think this is also where we're at too is like it this truly is like when a party get a house party gets broken up by the cops and you know where we're going next where we're going and you're trying to figure out and like there's three different options and you're like well the other person just said mastodon i thought it was post social they're like no it's hive mastodon's definitely not it's too complicated i can't figure it out right uh but just to go uh get back to this, I just want to say, uh, the guy behind this movie is Stu Peter and this doctor.

Oh wait, no, he's not a doctor. Uh, make that former bounty hunter turned podcaster who was kicked off of Spotify for claiming that COVID vaccines were a military bio weapon full of metallic parasites. Sorry.

Just wanted to get that last tidbit in there. Rowan, you seen any good documentaries recently? I know, but I'm going to watch this one now for sure. I don't know if this one's even out, but the trailer, I mean, it is wild to see. Do you see this kind of stuff in the food world or just in your line of work where sometimes someone just thinks they know how your field works? And they're like, I'm going to make this wild claim and maybe it'll get some attention. And I'll pray that no one is actually like knows what they're talking or knows what I'm trying to talk about and then be found out.

Oh, yeah. I mean, I think that in the food world, for sure. Like almost every every diet based claim turns out to be like, right. Not so good. Right, right, right. It's like I'm on the cashew and tiger's milk diet and you're going to love it. Shout out tiger's milk, those protein bars. I really like them. Um, anyway, so don't check out that. Uh, no one suddenly died. If anything, you're better off watching suddenly Susan. Okay. Uh, let's take a quick break and we'll be right back to talk more right after this

I'm Jess Casavetto executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil the 7M TikTok cult and I'm Clea Gray former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church and we're the host of the new podcast Forgive Me For I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and LA-based Shekinah Church, an alleged cult that has impacted members for over two decades. Jessica and I will delve into the hidden truths between high-control groups and interview dancers, church members, and others whose lives and careers have been impacted, just like mine. Through powerful, in-depth interviews with former members and new, chilling firsthand accounts, the series will illuminate untold and extremely necessary perspectives. Forgive Me For I Have Followed will be more than an exploration. It's a vital revelation aimed at ensuring these types of abuses never happen again.

Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I've been thinking about you. I want you back in my life. It's too late for that. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project.

All you need to do is record everything like you always do. One session. 24 hours. BPM 110. 120. She's terrified. Should we wake her up? Absolutely not.

What was that? You didn't figure it out? I think I need to hear you say it. That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. This machine is approved and everything? You're allowed to be doing this? We passed the review board a year ago. We're not hurting people.

There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How do you feel about biscuits? Hi, I'm Akilah Hughes, and I'm so excited about my new podcast, Rebel Spirit, where I head back to my hometown in Kentucky and try to convince my high school to change their racist mascot, the Rebels,

into something everyone in the South loves, the biscuits. I was a lady rebel. Like, what does that even mean? I mean, the Boone County rebels will stay the Boone County rebels. It's right here in black and white in the prints. A lion. An individual that came to the school saying that God sent him to talk to me about the mascot switch. As a leader, you choose hills that you want to die on. Why would we want to be the losing team?

I'd just take all the other stuff out of it. Segregation academies. When civil rights said that we need to integrate public schools, these charter schools were exempt from that. Bigger than a flag or mascot. You have to be ready for serious backlash. Listen to Rebel Spirit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you ever wonder where your favorite foods come from?

Like what's the history behind bacon-wrapped hot dogs? Hi, I'm Eva Longoria. Hi, I'm Maite Gomez-Rejon. Our podcast, Hungry for History, is back. Season two. Season two. Are we recording? Are we good? Oh, we push record, right?

Okay. And this season, we're taking in a bigger bite out of the most delicious food and its history. Saying that the most popular cocktail is the margarita, followed by the mojito from Cuba, and the piña colada from Puerto Rico. So all of these... We have, we think, Latin culture.

There's a mention of blood sausage in Homer's Odyssey that dates back to the 9th century B.C. B.C.? I didn't realize how old the hot dog was. Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. Last week, there was this like a few write-ups I saw about something called the Modern Day Knight, K-N-I-G-H-T project. And I was like, what is going on? We asked JM, our writer, to do a little digging on this phenomenon. And it turns out it's a real thing. And if you loved summer camp, but you, A, wished it had more guns and endurance tests, and B, you're currently a sad adult man,

we've got great news. You can sign up for this project or this weird camp. And while you'd think a modern day knight would presumably just spend their time chilling out with Michael Caine and Andrew Lloyd Webber in a castle somewhere, these guys are basically just in a boot camp, like a $12,000 boot camp. And the website, if you go to the website, what they're saying, it's designed for men who are, quote, living in unfulfilled life of passivity and frustration or what they call, but clearly are like unable to trademark quote, the walking dead. Uh, he said in simple terms, most men surrender to circumstances and accept mediocrity. So they're trying to get you in your like masculine grind mindset. And the introduction also includes passages about what it means to

be a man, like in bold letters says, what does it mean to be a man? And apparently it means being one type of primate rather than a different kind. They said they don't need to look any further than nature because nature never lies. The picture of the left depicts a chimpanzee and a bonobo ape on the right. And the chimpanzee is like showing its fangs and like snarling and teeth gnashing. The bonobo is like, just like, hey, I'm just chilling. And it says, when you understand the difference between these two creatures, you'll know why some men can walk into a room and instantly command presence and respect. The way of the chimp is based on strength courage honor and brotherhood

the way of the bonobo is based on weakness pleasure full-time relaxation and fun i'm sorry relax or have fun y'all yeah who wants that man bonobos have a ton of sex too yeah that's like what what are you what are you they're tapping into a very specific type of man that the internet type of man who doesn't want a lot of sex apparently well i think it makes sense i mean maybe yes but also the guys who feel that they are like what's the the term they use involuntarily celibate oh incel yeahel? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I think and especially because some of those guys seem very hard up to be like to have their manhood defined

and outlined for them in a way that is then not questionable and doing something like this where like you know, I was with guides in wilderness so you can never tell me I wasn't masculine or that I didn't have the answers. I took leadership courses. I also got like a lot of, I used to work for, all the names are escaping me today, guys.

I'm so sorry. They're like life coaches, but their brand is not based on anything other than tearing you down in subtle ways. Oh, like toxic guru? Yeah. Well, like the writing is, will be like this. Doesn't it suck that no one loves you and don't you wish your body was a little bit better so you can be more confident when you

talk to people all right you don't have those skills but i definitely do so you know make sure like they just constantly are like reminding people of any possible insecurity so that by the time you're finished reading their letter you you feel like you need help. And that's definitely like reading on the website. Here's a, okay. If you've made it this far down this page, then I can already tell that you're not like most men who know they're meant for more, but allow fear and poor discipline, to stifle their personal development, income, and impact.

That's key phrasing to just like trigger a person with low self-esteem into purchasing whatever the package is and it's really horrifying that copy can do that it's very successful yeah the power of copy and also the power of the chimp too let's not forget courage and honor are foundational to the chimpanzee not randomly biting off the face of your like human owner like that's when i see chimpanzees in the fucking news. It doesn't sound very honorable or brotherhood, but again,

they're wild animals and that's why you shouldn't keep them as pets. The pictures are so upsetting. Like it's a bunch of men in the water and white t-shirts. They're kind of dirty. They all look very tired and hungry. Yeah. Like a cross between a baptism and like a trial by fire yeah exactly baptism by fire you got it right there joelle the founder of this is some guy named bedros

culian and uh he wrote the he's got a youtube channel and he's got a book called man up and uh you know his youtube channel he's got stuff like this guy's tatted he's like just ripped like bearded gen xer dude and it's like the just the card says cancel culture okay yeah i'm sure there's some really interesting takes on there and he like you know that this whole thing conclusively proves why toxic masculinity isn't a thing using graphics borrowed from a mid-90s karaoke video because there are these like videos that like in impact font look i love it i loved impact font too when i first discovered fonts as a child but this the style guide is terrible here and there's like there's just like these in these videos that stuff is no such thing as toxic masculinity like played over very just you know mundane b-roll type

of stuff but again according to this guy his goal is to present men with a crossroads and it's either stay a bitch or become a beast in his words which is also incidentally the same crossroads presented to the prince in beauty and the beast but one of the project's head instructors steve eckert he's like saying you're not allowed to be a man anymore you're almost a racist if you're a man these days it's crazy oh you're confused you haven't been understanding the message oh no that's such a weird thing to say like you couldn't write better comedy than that where someone like, you're almost a racist if you're a man these days. What do you what do you what do you describe in their whiteness based off of all of the if you go to the video section, you have testimonials.

Yeah. And it's looking very white in there. I'm not seeing anybody else. It's looking very white in there. I'm not seeing anybody else. Joelle, again, you know, I don't want to be regressive here, but this isn't for you. Okay. Clearly. It's for bros with $12,000 to pay, not including flights or accommodation.

So they can get screened at. Not accommodations at $12,000? No. That's just to be yelled at and play with guns and get told you're a pussy by some fucking ripped guy and then i think you come out the other side better pay a dominatrix it's money better spent and they're probably not gonna call you $12,000 yes right exactly for 12 grand you could build a pretty good dungeon a hundred percent explicitly like this this whole thing like there's a lot of militarized stuff Because you know what deep rooted

Psychological problem hasn't been solved By a handgun I think it's a very Good combination that they have going there And like the beginning Of this quote unquote project Starts with people being Thrown into a car with bags Over their heads like the

Recruiting scene in old school we're getting their fraternity together just snatching people off the street and then they have to do a lot of physical challenges and there was like apparently someone this isn't confirmed but like someone in like a reddit post was talking about like a guy who did it and said that they were they were buried alive in body bags for a little bit too. All on their way to. On par with what's been happening. Cause like,

okay. So now it's so interesting. Okay. So it's like, not just that like motivational speaker kind of light, but it's also a little bit of like Christian church camp. If you've ever had to go through that, it's also a little bit,

I forget what they're called but like basically it's traumatized like an entire generation of teenagers whose parents would like pay to have them kidnapped and called like those like troubled teen camps yes that actually turned out to be like weird worker camps where kids were being like sexually assaulted but also yeah worked to the point of exhaustion sometimes sometimes death, where girls were forced to take their pregnancy to term and forced into long-term isolation spaces, horrible spaces. But again, I think it feeds into this idea for a certain kind of guy who thinks the only way to prove that I am a man is by going through the most amount of hardship as possible. And because I wasn't fortunate enough,

quotes, to go through any misfortune previously, I have to manufacture it later in life to prove a point. It's very weird. Well, it's to wake up my weakness inside of me. Well, that's why I'm going. And that's why Jack is there today. I didn't want to reveal that on the show. That's why Jack's out.

He's still... Someone extract Jack immediately. That's why Jack's out. He's still. Someone extract Jack immediately. He is not built for this. Ever since someone said he didn't know how to pose with his hands in a photograph, he's really been grappling with that. And he's like, what if I had guns in my hand and wood? So, you know, thoughts and prayers to him. But he'll come back with a great assessment of that. So, yeah, just, you know, just to everybody out there, you don but he'll come back with a great assessment of that. So yeah, uh, just,

you know, to, just to everybody out there, you don't need to pay $12,000 to, to find out your, you got a lot of just therapies cheaper. I'm going to be honest, $12,000 worth of therapy. Shit.

You're going to be good. Yeah. Real straight. Tell you who will be able to look somebody in the eye during a conversation. And it won't be because someone hits you with a two by four on your back while you're doing pushups. Oh my God. Buried alive. Rowan, is there any part of this experience that appeals to you in any way, shape or form? Yeah, this sounds very Vermont man to me.

Well, I'm hoping there's other options besides bitch or beast. Like is there like a middle option? But I'm also thinking about this. Like I just saw this video on Twitter, of course, of these dudes jousting each other on like, is there, like, a middle option? But I'm also thinking about this, like, I just saw this video on Twitter, of course, of these dudes jousting each other on, like, you know, they had, like, real lances, but on bicycles, and, you know, the lances had, like,

a, you know, almost like a boxing glove thing on the end, so they wouldn't actually, like, kill each other. But, like, charging at each other on a bicycle and jousting, and I'm wondering if this is part of being a modern knight, or if this is totally totally separate it sounds like it would go right into the curriculum no problem yeah if anything those guys jousting at least they're i feel like that's like hardcore larping you know like at least you're like you're doing the fucking thing but you have a nerf sword

it'd be very bendy nobody's getting hurt at a proper larping session my dad like in the 90s in new york his friend used to do these like weird like fight club things in new york where people would make their own armor with like parking cones and shit and they just fucking get down and parks like washington square park and shit what yeah and like i think it's more like a foreign to me i don't understand this at all yeah i mean i think there's more like a foreign to me. I don't understand this at all. Yeah. I mean, I think there's just this like weird, bizarre trying to capture what they believe is quote unquote, like masculinity. And I think for a lot of like men, they like maybe like hold their grandfathers in high regard, too. And are like, yeah, that guy who was in a war who didn't cry, but also like gave my dad a lot of weird issues because the way he raised him across state lines and never communicated with his children great examples that dude was a beast

yeah he was on the field working every day he was exhausted he broke his body and there was no one able to fix it like you don't want to be that guy you're so lucky i don't want to be that guy. You're so lucky. I do. I don't want to be no pussy. I want to be a beast. Pussy is great. You would only wish. Who's big empty house with his creepy candelabra and teapot that talk to me. Or that's Beauty and the Beast. I forget. Anyway, Rowan, I got to ask you, I want to talk a little bit about food because that is your like area of expertise and your new podcast about chocolate because you know right now we have thanksgiving upon us i have many questions like first off is there a perfect thanksgiving food before we get into the podcast i just want to kick that off from there is there a perfect thanksgiving food in your opinion you know i'm gonna i'm gonna throw uh throw a sort of

one actually from left field. I actually think the thing that should start off every Thanksgiving meal is oysters. Oh? Go on. I love oysters. Yeah? Oh, yeah. I've never had an oyster.

Oysters are a deal breaker for some people. I've never had an oyster. You're on. I like the little slime. I love the brine, too. When it's briny, it's my favorite. It But you're on. Yeah. Do you like, I like the little slime. I love the brine too. When it's briny, it's my favorite. It tastes like the sea.

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Actually, a box of oysters just arrived to my house like an hour ago. For Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving is when they're at their best. Oh,

really? Yeah. Yeah. People don't realize this, but oysters have a whole like seasonal thing because their lifestyle. So when the water gets cold, they start to get, they, they, they kind of go into hibernation winter, just like little tiny bears. So, and just like little tiny bears, they, they plump themselves up to survive that hibernation

period. So when the things get cold in the fall, they start eating like crazy and, and fattening themselves up. So around like Thanksgiving through New Year's, they up so around like thanksgiving through new years they are at their like peak of deliciousness i had no idea yeah i had no idea a whole new world wait so why start off with oysters i mean like i don't i'm not like is there some experiential science to that or why why do you why do you say that is the perfect opener well they don't really fill you up in any way you know like there's nothing they're kind of like living salt water in a sense so yeah it's just like you got a quick hit of of salty oceany deliciousness and then

they're gone and so you're not like you're not ruining the the 25 courses to come right oh man now i'm now i gotta go but of course you don't drink anything with your meat so they're really the 25 courses to come. Right. Oh man. Now I'm, now I got to go. But of course you don't drink anything with your meat. So they're really salty. So I don't know. You kind of have to have, I mean, I'll have something after,

but I'm never going to be like, okay, first drink the liquor out of the, out of the shell. Then have a sip. Yeah. Then eat the oyster. Yeah.

I'll have something after. No, you got to have the liquor. Sure. Yeah. And Joelle, what about you? Is there perfect Thanksgiving food?

Yes. I'm stealing my answer from Samin Nostrad, who said that cranberries, because they're the only acidity on the table, and they cut through everything. Wow. Like, if you don't have cranberry sauce, it's not Thanksgiving to me. And I'm a jellied can girl. Yeah, I like it real basic. My dad likes it because you can slice along the ridges. So it's like perfect portions of it.

Oh, I love cranberry sauce. I was just saying yesterday I can't do cranberry sauce. I just why I just don't. I have it. My palate is not all. It's not attuned for that burst of cranberry on my Thanksgiving plate. I just I know why it's there, but I just prefer I don't indulge. I like to keep it pretty straightforward.

Have you tried all the versions? There's so many versions. I have. We're talking about compote. We're talking about. Yeah, I've tried. Look, I always try. It's like candy corn i'm

like yeah this year is the year and then no i don't want this how could you talk about cranberries and candy corn in the same sentence this is blasphemy i'm just saying it's like a thing that i always feel like this will be the year that i open up to and then i realize i just need to accept that it might not be for me okay you know that's it that's it. That's your truth. It's wrong, but I understand it. Okay, what about favorite dessert for Thanksgiving? Go. Joelle. Oh, crap. Probably a chocolate pecan pie is ideal for me. I don't like a pumpkin pie. I need my gourds cooked in breads. Yeah. Or roasted, like fire roasted where they're like almost caramelized. Right.

But a chocolate pecan pie, especially if you can get one from like a south carolina georgia texas area forget it wow sensational actually connecticut has really good one too i'm glad you brought up i'm glad you brought up chocolate because roman my man obsessions wild chocolate is your podcast. And there's chocolate is something I love to eat. And every time I see it, like harvest it, I'm like, that's fucking chocolate. How that, how that turned to chocolate. Can you tell us a little bit about like your, your podcast and like, you know, just give us a little bit of an education like you did on red wine and oysters. So you're right. Like, yeah, like, so know, just give us a little bit of an education like you did on red wine and oysters. So you're right.

Like, yeah, like, so chocolate is made from the seeds of this tree that grows in the tropics called a cacao tree. And you open up these pods and it's just, it looks like this white, slimy, maggoty pulp. And you're like, that's definitely not chocolate. So it has to go through this whole process where they they scoop out the pulp and the seeds and ferment it oh it has to be fermented yeah it's it has to be fermented or it never tastes like chocolate so and that's part that's part that sometimes gets skipped in like crappy chocolate but anyway so they do that and then you dry it and then you

have to roast it and then it starts to look almost like almonds like these brown beans and then those get ground and mixed with sugar to make chocolate man okay so i i had no idea it had to be fermented note to self yeah that's why i'll never be able to make it smells almost like like chocolate wine when it's fermenting like you walk through an area where where it's all being heaped up and fermented and it's like it feels alcoholic almost okay i like that like what you know what is it about chocolate that makes it it's like one of these like coveted things throughout history you know and and even now like we like it's it's one of joelle's favorite desserts like certainly my

favorite kind of ice cream and if anything has chocolate i'm like yes that like oysters i guess people say it's an aphrodisiac but i don don't know if that's what, what the science is behind that. But what, what is it like, you know, like, why is it, why does it, like, why is it so, what is it, why is it so powerful in your estimation? Like in looking at how many people like fight over it and it's like this just gigantic industry. gigantic industry and that's one thing we we keep trying to explore in the podcast is what why do people go crazy for the stuff why do they go to such great lengths for it and part of it is it's actually a pretty good recreational substance it's got a bunch of different psychoactive compounds in it so they're not like they're not going to hit you over the head like uh like ayahuasca or anything right but it's got a lot of compounds in it that make you feel good, you know, that get the dopamine going. So, and that's why, you know, the Maya, the Aztec,

it was, chocolate was like the heart of their rituals. Like all their ceremonies, they would be, they always did it as a drink, like basically like a hot chocolate, a really thick hot chocolate. And that was like their thing that they worshiped with because it made you feel really good. So it's got,

it's got some cannabinoids in it. It's got some things that sort of get your heart going a little bit, but then it's got other stuff that just, you know, science wise, no one really knows why, but it, it,

you come away feeling like, yeah, about the universe. No, I, I'm sure anybody who likes chocolate can think of a time they've they had a chocolate that they tried for the first time that was so good and like like you get a wave fucking washes over you i don't know if i'm being hyperbolic but sometimes

i have that sensation like something really rich like chocolate i'm like i feel like i'm going to hyperspace on the millennium falcon shit like lines and i'm like oh me too me too no idea in fact i can't do it late at night or like i'm going to hyperspace on the Millennium Falcon shit like lines and I'm like oh me too in fact I can't do it late at night or like I'm in hyperspace and not sleeping you know oh luckily I don't have that issue I could I could eat oh yeah I could drink espresso in bed and I'll be fine but I it's just not a good idea to just eat chocolate in bed anyway uh my wife doesn't like that but Joelle are you when i saw your face going in all kinds of places when you're talking about all the psychoactive chemicals no because i believe it

i believe it like my mom growing up she loved it like a dove chocolate so she would like have them in the kitchen little things and then they were like perfect little bite-sized like pick-me-ups you know right i think every major celebration in my life has had some form of chocolate nearby it you know whether it's like a birthday cake or you know an ice cream after like an an epic fail um it's always it's like a i don't know i think chocolate especially as an american i'm not sure like globally what it's like but as an American there's always some chocolate nearby if you need to pick me up or if you need to celebrate or if you need a random gift to hand off because you're seeing somebody randomly like

it's just it's available to us at all times in every ways and I'm grateful for it right and that even like to your point Rowan it feels like that's like it's weird that even a box of chocolate like people like thank you for this gift you know what i mean because any other like sweet like quote-unquote candy someone might be a little bit like oh this doesn't quite rise to the occasion but chocolate like we still like we hold it like it's still sacred and on some level especially if you get like one of the fancy boxes so not to be this person but i'm gonna name drop a little bit zoe de chanel when we launched her It's still sacred on some level. Especially if you get one of the fancy boxes. Not to be this person, but I'm going to name drop a little bit. Zooey Deschanel, when we launched her podcast, sent us chocolates.

And I was like, oh, okay, that's kind of cute. But then I had them and I was like, oh, this is Zooey Deschanel level chocolates. Yeah, you're like, I can eat three of these a year. Wow. Next level. You do notice that, totally. With the really good stuff, yeah, the next level stuff, it's you you get more of that hit like right slightly drug like hit but it's not too much drug like that's what that's what's so good about it you know like a little chocolate mid-morning and

it's it's just oh yeah pick me up wait okay so explain this because there's levels to everything and like rowan i i know you just said oh yeah the good stuff what are like i know like your latest episode is talking about like like big chocolate you know yeah like and yeah the bad guys those are the bad guys yeah so first off what's the difference between like a regular chocolate that we're like oh yeah that's good and one that like you're like this is the this like what are the absolute heights of chocolate dump that i'm not aware of or like i'm want to be aware of yeah so it kind of goes back to that partly to that fermentation thing so chocolate it's a huge industry it's like a like multi-bill

hundred billion dollar industry five million tons of cacao grown every year mostly in africa and there's some real issues with forced labor there like there's a lot of child labor involved and the chocolate companies have had for like 20 years people have been after them saying y'all gotta figure this out you know right and the prices they pay are really low and that's why there ends up being this like child labor because the farmers in africa end up having using children because they're being paid so little for their cacao. And they also aren't paid enough to do all these quality steps that they need to do. But the chocolate companies, the big chocolate companies, they haven't really gone out of their way to try to fix that because they want to keep the prices low. They don't say that, but

it's pretty clear. So so chocolate originated in the amazon in the americas and there's still like these old varieties there that have amazing flavor usually just grown in these like tiny farms in latin america that have kind of been forgotten about by the industry and that and they are often going to all these steps to ferment it really well to draw out those amazing flavors and those drug-like effects more expensive but and they're also not using slave labor right so the the there's a shift now there's a like people are really pushing to like try to embrace these these more equitable more sustainable forms of chocolate production coming from the Americas and also to have that happen more in West Africa as well. Right.

So that's the difference. It's, it's like, it's funny. Every industry is always like, yeah. And the conditions are so bad for the workers because of cost cutting measures.

And you're like, yeah, it's exactly what it is in chocolate. If, if the, like, if you know, farmers in like West Africa were paying paying workers an equitable wage how much do

you think chocolate would actually cost like what kind of a like what's the cost thing the savings that the like big chocolate companies are so like oh man it's the difference between a five dollar and a fucking sixty dollar thing or like what how much is that it's not it's the difference between like a two dollar hershey bar and a $3 Hershey bar. And yeah, so the governments in Ivory Coast and Ghana, they just put a premium on their chocolate, right? Their cacao. They're like, all right, we're going to charge you an extra $400 a ton so that all the farmers can have a livable wage. have a livable wage. And Hershey immediately went around that and bought, I forget, 30,000 tons of cacao on the futures market at a lower price

to get around having to pay that pre-void premium. So the big guys have been trying to avoid higher prices at all costs. And they won't be able to for long. But yeah, it's not that much different. It's like, yeah, everything would be a little more expensive.

That's what's so wild. And Hershey, huh? I mean, it's like, it's again, it's one of these things too. You always see about like fair trade.

There's like every year there's a new fair trade thing, you know, because like our consciousness is now realizing, oh yeah, like we got to look at our coffee, like harvesting practices and you're like at this harvesting practice. And now with chocolate, is now realizing, oh, yeah, like we got to look at our coffee, like harvesting practices and you look at this harvesting practice. And now with chocolate, is it like so it is a burgeoning movement? Like it can where because I want to be able to now say I want this kind of chocolate because my man Rowan just put me on.

What is like what's what's what's like the Rolls Royce of chocolates that we can put some of our listeners onto for those who participate in the chocolate indulging experience? All right. So the real Rolls Royce for me right now is a woman I focus on the podcast named Louisa Abram. She's a Brazilian woman. She came out of she quit culinary school like 10 years ago when she was in her mid 20s and decided she just wanted to make chocolate out of the wild cacao growing in the Amazon. So she's been partnering with these different indigenous groups in different parts of the Amazon to make a chocolate with each of their cacaos and basically to funnel that money back into their community. Basically, it's a way of, because chocolate, it grows as an understory in the rainforest in the Amazon. It's a little tree.

So if you harvest the chocolate you don't have to touch the forest so you can sort of keep it's a way of create making money while keeping the forest alive so she's partnering with these different groups in the amazon to do that and also each one of those cacaos has a totally different flavor to it right so you can kind of like taste all these different flavors of the of the rainforest through your chocolates and those are properly fermented too right and beautifully fermented that's one thing she does and i was with her like we you go to these areas middle nowhere you know you're like sleeping in a hammock and trying not to get eaten by a crocodile and you're

teaching these workshops about how to ferment the beans to make really good chocolate yeah wow okay well see now i can now i'm armed with some some good conversation for thanksgiving can you drop the name again for this louisa abram l-u-i-s-a-a-b-r-a-m and she has an awesome instagram account somewhere with amazing images of what she's doing that's a good place for everyone to start. Okay, fantastic. I always like to meet people who've got a level of expertise on something like this because it's been very eye-opening, Rowan. Thanks so much

for that. And thanks again for stopping by the Daily Zeitgeist. Rowan, where can people find you and follow you and the podcast? Where can they find that? Me, I'm rowanjacobson.com and you can actually find the podcast too there, but the podcast is obsessions, wild chocolate, and it's on iHeart is the easiest place to find it, but it's on all the other platforms too. Fantastic. Fantastic. Uh, and is there a tweet

or any other work of social media that you've been enjoying or anything like that you want to shout out? The cultural tutor on Twitter. I don't know if you've ever seen. I don't know who this person is, but it's like awesome little tweet threads about some random piece of culture that you've never heard of. And you always walk away like, wow, I knew nothing about that. And I learned something today. Oh, wow. Oh, this account looks great okay little little lessons i like that it feels like lessons yeah like like the

inside of a history teacher's mind and it's like yeah i guess i could tweet something every day here's another nugget the inside of the cool history teacher like yeah the one you're like yeah i like this guy's class yeah like my history teacher mr willery said i won't smoke pot with you guys when you graduate but if if it was made legal in california i would do it with you it's just a matter of legality yeah shout out to him he was this seems like he might be that guy yeah yeah i wouldn't i wouldn't doubt it i would not doubt it joelle yeah thank you so much for joining me today where can people find you and follow you and support you and listen to you? And what's a tweet that you like?

Yeah. Y'all know me. I'm Joel Monique. You can find me all over the internet at Joel Monique. It's J-O-E-L-O-E-M-O-N-I-Q-U-E. I have access to all of these social medias, but predominantly I'm at Instagram and over on the Hive now. Some Hive things I've been enjoying. This is from Vita Ayala, a really talented writer.

They say, if Twitter was work, then I'm hoping Hive will be like a lobby at the Barcon Hotel where everyone who doesn't want to drink or smooth is meeting up to get milkshakes and hang out with their friends slash meet new friends. You remember when social media was fun? That's high, y'all. That's high. Wow. Also, before I bounce, I just really, really want to encourage everyone to go give Steven

Spielberg's new film, A Chance. It's called The Fablemans. It is a pseudo documentary about his childhood. Imagine if a master director decided to take a look at their life with a tony and oscar-winning writer it's amazing and michelle williams who won an oscar for my week with marilyn a long time ago uh stars in it as steven's mom and she is breathtaking she's brilliant it is such a good movie it is heartwarming and devastating and inspiring and then like all spielberg movies uplifting

it's delightful go see it make sure it makes money so people will continue to support films like this yeah oh my he said tony award-winning referencing tony kushner right i sure did i saw the pun there yeah i was in it was there was there a tweet no just saying just you like i gave you all the good stuff from the hive. There you go. Just get in there now before it melts down. I think only two people run it. I feel like that's the one tweet I see over and over. It's like, it ain't ready for millions yet.

It is not. It crashes frequently. But the times you can access it are beautiful. And you can either buy songs for your page. They're $1.99 to help support the app. Or there's a website, which, of course, I don't know, but you can definitely Google it, where if you're the kind of person who has $100 plus to donate, they're basically taking investor donations to hopefully enrich their structure and also bring in more staff soon, hopefully.

Fingers crossed. Okay. We'll see. I like it. I want it to survive. It's been a lot of fun we need somewhere to yell at each other and tweet stuff like do horses get bored and shout out to everybody who replied to that thread because i really was like damn sometimes i'd be feeling

bad for a horse just standing there and shit anyway some tweets that i like uh griffin gullage at griffin gullage tweeted no one is more prepared to lose their entire online social media identity than millennials who have lost their AIM, MySpace, Google Reader, Google Plus. And remember the early years of Facebook. We will only return more powerful, more annoying than before. Yeah. Yeah. We've been through this. We've been through this. Well, don't worry. We always know. We always find each other. We know where the after party is eventually uh and then this one is from at rejected hannah it's a video of like the press tour for strange world with jabuki and mr gyllenhaal and there's she tweeted the silence i would have killed myself on the spot this is jake gyllenhaal wrapping up like this junket interview for strange worlds flanked by his co-stars and he thinks he's

just killing it with this little quip here on the strange world junket i think they're all very relatable you know this world this world we live in today is a pretty strange world too they let that one air dry the head turned to jabuki like please give me something he said do not get me mixed up in this i think i'm known for my comedy i can't laugh at just anything i think you can hear the producer be like okie dokie in the background because it i let me just play it again i want to make sure does it just like okie dokie in the background because it let me just play it again i want to make sure does it just say okie dokie oh jabuki okay someone's asking jabuki here's a question for you that's amazing oh my god uh you can find me at miles of gray where there's at symbols just pick one i'll probably be there eventually and also find me and jack on our

basketball podcast miles and jack got mad boosties uh we also got uh i also got that other podcast for 20 day fiance if you like to talk about 90 day fiance so check that out you can find the daily zeitgeist at daily zeitgeist on twitter uh the daily zeitgeist on instagram got a facebook fan page and website dailyzeitgeist.com where we post the episodes and our footnotes. Footnotes. Thank you, Joel. Where you can check all that out, plus the song we write out on. The song we're going to write out today is from the new 07O Shake album.

This track is called Cocoon, and this goes hard. If you don't know about 07O Shake, the Jersey native, I always got love for the Jersey artist. Just an amazing rapper and singer, and it's just a good track to check out. So this is Cocoon by 07O Shake. All right, cool. Well, you can find The Daily Zeitgeist on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And we'll be back later to tell you what's trending, and then we'll see you then. All right, bye. Bye. podcasts and we'll be back later to tell you what's trending and then we'll see you then. All right. Bye. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series, Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church.

And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and Shekinah Church. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice.

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