The Daily Zeitgeist - Movie Sex And Pop Culture Horniness With Chelsea Devantez 08.22.2023

Episode Date: August 22, 2023

In episode 1535, Jack and Miles are joined by filmmaker, director, TV Writer, and host of Celebrity Book Club, Chelsea Devantez, to discuss… The Evolution of Movie Sex Scenes, Pop Culture Horniness and more! EVERYONE IS BEAUTIFUL AND NO ONE IS HORNY Sontag on fascist art (from 1975) Marvel Movies: This Esteemed Director Says They’re Not Sexy Enough What is the Physical Culture Movement? BODYBUILDING AND NATION-BUILDING Gen Z's Distaste for Sex Scenes Sparks Hollywood Censorship Debate Here's Why Movie And TV Sex Scenes Are Necessary LISTEN: Domingas by Jorge Ben JorSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me for I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and Shekinah Church. Listen to Forgive Me for I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry.

Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti and I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadson. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career.

That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. around negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hello, the internet, and welcome to season 301, episode 1 of The Daily Zeitgeist Day, a production of iHeartRadio. This is a podcast where we take a deep dive into America's shared consciousness, and it is Tuesday, August 22nd, 2023. You've been waiting for us to get to this day. So that we can tell you that it is, of course, National Pecan Tort Day. There's so many days for pecans, man. The pecan farmers have gotten to the National Day Industrial Complex so hard.

But while you're enjoying all those sweet sweets, don't forget, it's also National Tooth Fairy Day. Shout out the Tooth Fairy Union. National Surgical Oncologist Day. Fuck cancer. Shout out to the surgeons, though, that be trying to battle it. National Bow Day. International Day of Commemorating the Victims of Acts of... Boy, my God, it's so long.

Acts of Violence Based on Religion or Belief. That's a tall one. And what's one more just to make it super fun? The last one is National Be An Angel Day. Just be an angel. Hey, every day is National Be An Angel Day for you, sweetheart.

Thanks. My name is Jack O'Brien, aka Don't Go Chasin' Zaslav Balls. Just stay on the picket line until that asshole pays you. I know that you're gonna have to compete with AI, y'all. But I think that strokes are so bad. That is courtesy of FighterOfTheNightMan underscore.

Ha ha ha ha ha. On the Discord. And I'm thrilled to be joined, as always, by my co-host, Mr. Miles Gray! Miles Gray, a.k.a. And I've traveled 10,000 miles and I'll travel 10,000 more. To be the world's most

renowned auctioneer, I will travel 10,000 miles or more. Shout out to NoGlue when I catch up on the Discord for combining, you know the that proclaimer's track with that state senator colton moore who just basically wrote his entire wikipedia article and had to shout out the fact that he's traveled 75 000 miles uh doing auction oh yeah that's right yeah while also trying to cover for donald trump he counts every mile that he travels

i respect that actually that you just never get over it like look how far we're going i mean if you really want to stunt like you know we could we could pull the passports out young man you know i mean businessmen do love to do that shit too oh yeah like the airport status dude the fucking airport any fucking like bar, you'll see two dicks in suits being like, yeah, I just got my million miler status. Diamond status, dude. Yeah, taking my family down to Bali next week. Yeah.

I got to get this trip done. Well, Miles, you're thrilled to be joined in our third seat by a brilliantly talented filmmaker, writer. She was one of the head writers for The Problem with Jon Stewart and wrote on Girls 5 Ever, Bless This Mess, The Opposition with Jordan Klepper, among many others. She wrote, directed, and starred in the acclaimed short film Basic, hosts the podcast Celebrity Book Club.

It's Chelsea Devante! Chelsea! Oh, hi. I love that big intro, like shouting my name into a cave, you know, seeing what echoes back. Into a cave full of the entire internet. That's right. The whole damn internet is here to welcome you on the Zeitgeist. I'm feeling very blessed to be back here and continue some very important discussions.

Yes. Always. be back here and continue some very important discussions. Yes. Always. Yeah. So this is our Tuesday episode where we kind of take a look at one specific topic that we think kind of undergirds the whole zeitgeist that is important to understanding the zeitgeist. Yes. And undergirds are what I use instead of Spanx. So very important.

They were the pre- of Spanx. So very important. They were the, yeah, pre-date Spanx. That's right. What's my secret? Undergirds. you basically said that you knew Trump was going to win the 2016 election based off of watching The Bachelor. And then you explained why and it made perfect sense. And looking at pop culture tea leaves and reading what is actually being said about what's happening to people on the inside, what is going on with our shared dreams, is one of my favorite subjects. You are really good at it.

We love to do it on the Zeitgeist. And so we wanted to have you on to do just that. And we'll get into what specifically we're talking about. Actually, we can do that now. I mean, we threw out Stan culture being the new religion. We've talked about that before. But this one subject keeps popping up on social media. It popped up over the weekend after we had selected this subject.

And that is kind of like the desexualization of pop culture. Movie sex scenes in particular seem to be like a particular thing that is that people are objecting to lately and are like why do these exist when i watch an 80s movie why does dan akroyd get a blowjob from a ghost for instance and that that one's actually a really good question but anyways there's all sorts of things we've talked about before the idea that like desexualized beautiful bodies is like actually a feature of fascist art and so we've we've puzzled over whether that's what we're seeing here but there's lots of as this has become more and more of a mainstream thing that we're seeing on social media there's lots of explanations and we thought you were the best person to have to have on the show to to talk about this i'm i'm thrilled to be here to talk about like very hot sexy bodies not having sex

no but i i was so fascinated you guys chose this because it's also something i've been thinking about a lot also just as like a side topic and where I'm coming from I was you know the writers are on strike right now but before we were on strike I was pitching a show and one of the demographics it was going out to it was going to be like part for part for millennials part for Gen Z sort of this basically like late 20s early 30s audience that people seem to think millennials and gen z are just like so so so different so when you're pitching for like that late 20s early 30s executives start referencing studies like the ones we're going to talk about like gen z actually isn't having sex anymore so

like right like can one of these characters just like not have a partner of any kind and they just live in a hole and they stare at a wall because that's what we assume Gen Z is doing and it was so frustrating because every time I looked around be it from people in my real life the youth of the real life TikTok social media really anything I just kept feeling like that is not true at all even in Gen Z reality shows like they are getting engaged they are getting married they're talking about dating kind of like the same way you've always had this feeling of like you know I want to be having good sex but I'm not I don't know if that's something particular to me and my friends but like I remember in my early 20s it was like yeah we would like be having sex, but no one's having sex like sex in the city.

Like it just feels like a 20s thing. And of course, you know, I'm sure some people were. But anyways, all to say that, like, I really think about these studies that are being referenced like Gen Z is like this and da da da is like this. And all I keep thinking about is like, who's doing these studies? And maybe Gen Z is just not participating. Yeah. You know what? We're actually not going to answer the polls

about what we've been fucking lately. We're just not. Because I just don't think they're correct. But I would love to hear what you guys think. It's like the political polls that are like, man, these elderly people certainly over-index. They seem like they're doing great. And it's like, well, how did you conduct this?

Calling landlines. Exactly, exactly. It's like, oh, I guess we didn't predict the election correctly off of the hundred landlines. I mean, how weird do you have to be to pick up the phone these days? Who is answering the phone? We're trusting them with our polling data. The people who answer an unknown number, I don't trust them.

We actually asked a bunch of Gen Z people's grandparents about their sexual behavior. And this is what they told us. This is what they told us. is, and the thing that I've been feeling is, is that I'll say as a millennial to the Gen Z's is perhaps lacking nuance, discourse nuance, which I don't know how, I mean, how close do you think lack of nuance and understanding nuance is to turning fascist? Right. You know, on the nuance to fascist spectrum, I do think we're somewhat close, but I don't think it's fascism. Right. You know, on the nuance to fascist spectrum, I do think we're somewhat close, but I don't think it's fascism. I think it's nuance. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's probably true. We have talked before, speaking of David Zaslav, that he's a real Gen Z-er because when

he saw Fleabag, he paused it and told everyone that we're either going to turn this trash off for the sex scenes or we're just going to turn this trash off for the sex scenes, or we're just going to watch it and nobody's allowed to look at me while we watch it. Don't make eye contact. So he was very scandalized by a sex scene. I'm sure he didn't want people to look at him as he was just coming egregiously at Fleabag. Yeah, just jacking off wildly. Eyes off.

Yeah. Hands free. Watch. Hands free. Hands up. Hands up. Still laughing. How?

How? Well, I think that's also another good point though of like people like zazlov and them are at the top of our tv pop culture right now so plugged in i can just finish your sentence yes that's exactly what i was gonna say um god he he wants to look cool so bad i saw him wearing three popped collared shirts the other day. Three. So that's a jacket. That's a shirt. And then there was another shirt underneath.

And all of them popped collars. And then the little pockets on the jacket popped. I said, come on, my dog. But anyways, I'll just say that normally I think we look at pop culture and it can really reflect what you were saying. Reflect back on to like culture culture but right now i'm feeling that actually only reality tv and social media can accurately do that because people like zazlov have been making television decisions for a good five years and they're not accurately reflecting culture anymore interesting all right well we are that's

what we're going to be talking about in the second and third act. Oh, whoops, I thought we were there. We're, no, first we're going to ask you what's something from your, we need to get to know you better. Oh my gosh. To get to know you. We do like to ask our guests what's something from your search history

that's revealing about who you are. My search, you know what? I'll do it live. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I'll go in live. All right, Bill I mean? Yeah. I'll go in live. All right, Bill O'Reilly. Well, we're going to get to it. But Chloe Bailey, patiently responding to swarm sex scene backlash.

That was an article I had read a while ago, but queued it up for our conversation. Got it, got it, got it. What is something you think is overrated? conversation. Got it. Got it. Got it. What is something you think is overrated? Okay, here we go. Now stay with me on this. So I was getting very nostalgic for magazines, Us Weeklys, people holding it in your hands, someone basically curating your feed for you and telling you this is what people are paying attention to. So my husband got me a subscription to Us Weekly. And I was like, yes, back in the saddle. Here we go. And I know it's like, okay, print media is dying, blah, blah, blah. But wow. Oh, my God, has this magazine taken such a turn to the point where even if we don't rate Us Weekly

highly anymore, whatever it is, is still too high. Like in the magazine, they are now printing celebrities' own Instagram photos. Wow. Okay. So it's paper Instagram? Yes, paper Instagram. But like sometimes like out of date. So it's like over the course of six months, Selena Gomez posted a photo with a fish and then someone else did. Now there's just a page

in us weekly being like look sometimes celebrities fish and it's like I already saw that on Instagram and you just like put it through your printer like what's happening do we not pay paparazzis anymore do they not have the money for that like are we not curating like thoughts throughout the fish photos it's just and then I started going through all of it. And like the just they're just like us. That's it's just. Right. Just printing Instagram still.

I couldn't believe it. I remember it used to be like the paparazzi thing. It's like they go to Sprouts or whatever. Now they're like, oh, look, Chrissy Teigen dances in her living room. It's like, yeah, because she's holding the camera herself. What are you doing? Oh, wow. As soon as I just couldn't believe it's still a magazine.

And then they're like atoning for their crimes. Like, do you guys remember when two celebrities would be caught wearing the same dress? Yeah. Or better. And they'd be like, who wore it better? And they'd be like, one percent for me and a safari. Ninety nine percent. You know, a safari.

Everyone thinks you look like shit. You look like shit you look like shit in this dress and um so now they're sort of like they've learned like oh we're not

you know we're not supposed to like pin women against each other and so now they just put a little thing that says twinning oh who wore it better

is now twinning boo boo tell me a story do something interesting like I get that like yeah like don't pit them against each other but like that was it twinning yeah and they just they just paste photos of them and dresses going twinning and then the silent part is who wore it better yeah yeah which twin

do you prefer yeah and the comedians used to make fun of fashion in the back like the back page sad pathetic comedians like myself being like, tent dress. I'd go camping in that or something like that. And now it's people being like, mules are very in. Pink is in color, is a color that's in this season. Bright green. Are you missing out on the trend? Yeah, exactly.

Okay, thank you. okay yeah thank you i wonder like do we think this happened because budget cuts at us weekly or because there's only one magazine now and so they like don't have to compete with anybody so they're just like i don't fucking care i mean they're in touch let's pretend green is a new thing yeah i you know i was thinking about it i was like okay are they just sort of getting like is this a thing where most of americans aren't on social media so this magazine is, like, still helping people? But, like, no, like, six out of ten Americans are on Instagram. Right. You know what I mean?

And I think the four that aren't don't subscribe to us weekly. Yeah, yeah. Like, the people I know who aren't on social media, they damn sure don't give a fuck about celebrity culture either. Yeah, yeah. They're, like, on their own shit. They're like know i'm i operate on a completely different system than other people exactly and this is where it's like oh print media is going out of business well it's like i think they've been told time of death is in four years and they're just trying to like end their lives early like i don't know like it's as if they're like no one's looking at this right

yeah like i'm not gonna bust my ass as the factory burns down i'm gonna fucking just kick it and just you know just like we get singed in the corner yeah exactly we used to every week i mean we used to buy all the tabloids shout out boyd watch where we would buy like every tabloid like national inquirer globe all that shit and then all the gossip mags like people in touch and i'm curious now to see like i wonder how much the pandemic has changed that coverage because And then all the gossip mags, like people in touch. And I'm curious now to see, like, I wonder how much the pandemic has changed that coverage. Cause even then it was still doing like who wore it better and other things. And just being like,

they're just like us, but it was like the old, you know, the paparazzi shots out in Malibu where somebody wearing big glasses with a Starbucks, drank a cup or whatever. Yeah. She kind of looks sad.

I bet she's divorced. Oh yeah. The best was like, Oh dude, this guy in paradise. bucks, drank the cup or whatever. Yeah, she kind of looks sad. I bet she's divorced. The best was like, oh dude, this guy touched... Trouble in Paradise? What was the subtext of every photograph? Wasn't there one where it was like, Brad Pitt touched Jennifer Aniston's stomach. They're fucking pregnant. Yeah, exactly. One?

Miles, that was an entire... That was in every magazine for ten and a half years. For real. Every day. She's pregnant. She's pregnant. She's pregnant.

Why would you touch her stomach right after eating if she wasn't pregnant? They hadn't seen each other for 15 years and they're like, shocking new photos suggest that they're back together. It's like Angelina Jolie says he's pretty abusive on a plane. Jennifer Aniston pregnant with twins. Yeah. Yeah. Cut to Jennifer Aniston pregnant with twins. Yeah. Yeah.

Cut to Jennifer Aniston. Miss me with that gossip. Yeah. But Us Weekly was purchased by American Media Inc. When was that? The owner of like National Enquirer and all that. Like the actual bloids. Yeah. I mean, then it should get juicier i just don't i have

to say like i listen i subscribe to some gossip newsletters and they're so funny they're so fun the ones that include pictures fucking tight if you printed that out i would buy it for 3.99 i just like it's as if like they brought in a they brought in a bunch of granddads to run us weekly and they're like i think my wife said there was recipes in here. They almost definitely did because like what, that was one thing that we noticed about national inquire and like the actual supermarket tabloids was that they seemed to be made by and for people who were in their eighties.

Like truly it was just all about like this elderly celebrity might be dying. Last days for Dolly. Like that was every other issue was about how Dolly Parton was dying. But for the most part, it was just old people news. Yeah, yeah. And I guess that's really just the demographic.

It's them and me with a subscription. Right, right. All together. What's something you think is underrated? just the demographic it's them and me with a subscription right all together what is uh what's something you think is underrated okay i'm doing a little like you know mine go together like they match wow reddit now again you'll be like yes reddit's really popular shells like what are you talking about but again i feel like um a bunch of comedians, myself included, have always used Reddit as a punchline. I was like, oh, like the trolls, the subhumans, you know what I mean? Like, who cares what's like happening on Reddit?

And I have some Google search terms up for my podcast. And I did this Carolyn Calloway, Natalie Beach episode. And somehow, you know, one of my Google alerts brought me to a Reddit thread. And before clicking it, I thought like, you're not supposed to do this, Chelsea. Like this is not whatever happens from here is like not going to go well. And when I got there, I was like, holy shit, this is some good discourse. This is some really smart, high level discourse. And I think there's been a shift granted i have not been real checked into reddit but like on tiktok comments and instagram comments and and

twitter they all kind of like derail the discourse and it always goes into like you're uh you you you're ugly fat and should die like somehow that always gets there like within the first five minutes reddit is for the people who are like, we want 700 characters. We have something to say. We need a real forum. And I just, I found some really elevated topics in there. And I was like, I cannot believe I haven't been living here the whole time. It's yeah.

It's definitely all about like what subreddits you go on. Definitely. What the energy is of people. Because, yeah, some places are just total toxic meltdowns constantly like it's funny even how like sports teams will have different subreddits where like some people like now that other subreddit is for like the fucking wishy-washy daydreamers who don't actually know ball we know that shit on this subreddit and like you'll even see like people with the same interest like no, no, you guys over there, serious shit over here.

Or like if you want to shit post, do that there. But yeah, there really is. But that's what's so cool. It's like they are creating internal guidelines. They're kicking people out to the other threads. I saw this thing where it's like, yeah, we don't like I saw this battle of like, don't call this girl pick me. Don't use pick me energy. It's a sexist term.

But I was in a thread for people to shit talk other probably women i was in the thread where you're like isn't this woman so fucking stupid and someone was like you are misusing pick me wow that is toxic and i was like where am i hello professor yeah i just really yeah i really liked it yeah i think that's a really good point i think that's a really good underrated because reddit does like is still used as shorthand for like dumb internet like trolls and incels and like that's definitely not exclusively the case or even like largely the case i feel like there's usually like if you want to find a way to like use the Internet that doesn't make it feel like it's completely broken and your every page that you go to is taken over by ads. Just like put a Reddit filter on all your searches. Just do like whatever you're looking for and then Reddit and you're going to have a better time on the Internet.

better time on the internet yeah see how like on google when people have like questions about like day-to-day things the like when it auto fills reddit will be like one of the they're like how to change car battery reddit you know yeah then like youtube because like it's really interesting i mean i'm i'm on reddit a lot i you know obviously like you go like the shit i'm interested in i go i check those subreddits out and it's fantastic there's other ones i just like you go like the shit i'm interested in i go i check those subreddits out and it's fantastic there's other ones i just like to watch like there's one about economics where like a bunch of economists joke it's like you'll never get consensus with like with two economists in the same room and then like they just like laugh like all high-minded economy economic shit and i'm like what the fuck i'm like this is kind of interesting but yeah there's it's there's truly

something for everybody there. Like I was on a subreddit where people just be like, I just found this thing. What is this? And then people come in. They're like, hi, I've been a plumber for 30 years. This tool is actually used to like stop a drain or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And people are like, whoa. Yes. It was a plunger. No, it's like this thing that like goes down a drain and like inflates. It's like when there isn't a stopper in it. It's like some very specific plumbing tool. But it just looked like a lightsaber.

So people were like, I don't know. What the fuck is that? I just found this shit-encrusted lightsaber. Yeah, I totally agree. I think the mob mentality of Reddit has a higher IQ andiktok mob and tell like i think if you went on tiktok you're like yo with this plunger people be like you idiot you didn't know what this is and you'd go on reddit and they'd be like we don't talk like that in this one yeah well yeah that's why there's like so full-on subreddit it's called like no dumb questions like where people go

and there's not like people are like i'm sorry sorry, what is Selena Gomez and like a kidney thing I keep reading about, please. Okay. This sounds like I should go there. Cause I've got answers for that one. Oh yeah. There's another one. Yeah. Out of the loop. You'd probably like, cause that's another one where people come in with like pop culture questions and they're like, I'm sorry, who is D four, four VB, the artist. I love this. Yeah. I feel, I feel sad for myself that I missed out on Reddit for so many years

because I just assumed it was like... You know what I mean? It's a lazy punchline of like these losers. And it's like, they're pretty smart. They want to type out paragraphs. Like that takes... It's pretty smart. Just don't venture anywhere

where like you may be the topic of conversation. That's where you can... Subreddit's specific to Miles' point. Not great place to find out about Donald Trump if you're just reading from a Donald Trump subreddit. Not a great place to see crime solved in real time. But then again, absolutely nowhere is good at crowdsourcing crime solutions. Good point. But listen, specific genre of books that's where

i'm at get to the book places influencer snark threads you know they're they've got some there's also there's like faux moi which is like a dumois kind of i don't know have you seen faux moi yeah but you know what i am so so out on dumois FOMO because it's like they have made every single person into a paparazzi. And I don't trust half of these paparazzis. You know what I mean? Like every time they're like, hey, guess what? You know, Tobey Maguire is suing his wife. Anon, please.

It's like that could be that honestly could be my grandma. Right. Having read Us Weekly 10 years ago and was like guess what i heard like it's like yeah we have i want to read the juice and know it's real and now it's not because it's just some girl being like saw chris delia without his mask in a coffee shop right right right also oh yeah victor in the chat brings up going to shower or you know about shower oranges no please this is where motherfuckers they go into a hot shower and just just just caveman bite into an orange not necessarily it's just they're just saying that you should eat an orange in a in a shower because of the combination of hot shower and

cold orange look who's caping for shower oranges right now tank was very sexy and yours was very healthy. Because the posts I read on shower oranges, I'm more interested by the ones where people are like, guys, I did it. I just let my animal instincts overcome me. I just thugged it out with this orange in the shower and it was beautiful. And then you see people like, would tangerines work? And then you see people like, would tangerines work? I mean, one of the things I like about the concept of shower oranges is that you can just peel it and drop it wherever you want. Because, you know, shower peels are pretty much waterproof.

But then, what are we doing? Are we leaving them there? A little potpourri? You pick it up afterwards. Okay, but then it was just the joy of dropping it and knowing you cleaned it up later. Yeah, yeah. I gotcha. I think, yeah, I think it appeals to like really messy people. yeah it was just the joy of dropping it oh just right up later yeah yeah i got you i think yeah i think it appeals to like really messy people because it seems like the appeal is like you get

all messy all right i mean look i'm not i'm not some you know very put together person like that but i guess it doesn't appeal to me like yeah get all gross but the water just washes it away you know the thing you hate about the way you want to eat in real life we just let the food get all over you like i don't know yeah maybe all right so everybody just wants to just bite into a watermelon from the outside in stick your head through it and then just like throw the rind everywhere right no yeah that's just all right uh moving on pool watermelons i'm just saying all right let's take a quick break. And when we come back, we will talk about the desexualization of pop culture. Is it a thing? What does it mean? We'll be right back.

I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series, Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and LA-based Shekinah Church, an alleged cult that has impacted members for over two decades. Jessica and I will delve into the hidden truths between high control groups and interview dancers, church members, and others whose lives and careers have been impacted, just like mine.

Through powerful, in-depth interviews with former members and new, chilling firsthand accounts, the series will illuminate untold and extremely necessary perspectives. Forgive Me For I Have Followed will be more than an exploration. It's a vital revelation aimed at ensuring these types of abuses never happen again. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden.

We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Saner.

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Oh, we push record, right? Okay. And this season, we're taking an even bigger bite out of the most delicious food and its history. Saying that the most popular cocktail is the margarita, followed by the mojito from Cuba, and the piña colada from Puerto Rico. So all of these...

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. So just a couple things to kick us off more and more we're seeing like these reactions go viral there was one over the weekend where a woman describes the movie oppenheimer and like that her and her husband wanted to see oppenheimer but they had heard there was a sex scene. You know, she looks to be in her, I'd say, like, late 20s, early 30s. And it's

just wild the way she's talking about the sex scene as if it's, like, a thing we can all agree is, like, traumatic and not something that, like, anybody wants to watch. And, like, they talk about, like, how they got through it. They did their research. They did their research.

They looked when it was going to happen, and then they closed their eyes during it. And this comes... I don't know what her deal is, what her husband's deal is, if this is part of a long-running social media presence where people know that they have some past trauma as a couple or something like that so i don't want to like dive too much in and be like what a weirdo she also has like a jesus fish on her wrist like tattooed on her wrist so it could just be like

religious stuff but like this does seem to be i i think the reason it's getting so much traction is people are seeing this as a take more and more where people are like finally someone says it like sex scenes are are weird they make me feel gross i i don't want to see them and it it came out a lot with oppenheimer in particular but chelsea i just want to open the floor to you on this subject of like a step back from horniness as media consumers. Well, first I have to say I haven't been totally drawn to see Oppenheimer, but after that video, now I really want to go. Like I found myself being like, I have to know what this sex scene is so i don't you know i don't know where that puts me perspective but now i want to see the movie yeah have you have you guys seen it is is it a graphic sex scene i'd have to know it's not

graphic it's actually like really so my take on you only have missionary sex yeah it's straight like the woman's on top yeah i felt like that was the most risky thing and it's it's like nudity yeah there's like yeah there's there's some nudity but i actually think like it feels very strange like christopher nolan has traditionally been described as like being somewhat of a sexless filmmaker like he made a movie about people's like going inside people's dreams and no one no one fucks at all like nobody like sex doesn't even exist inside these people's dreams sex doesn't really exist inside most of his movies i would say other than like the joker character is kind of the most fuckingest character that like he has in like any of his movies in the sense that like,

he is like this kind of creep, but like, at least there is a sexual energy with, with the Joker. But anyways, this seemed like he was responding to that and being like, Oh yeah, I can't do a sex scene.

And it just feels, it is a weird sex scene. The, the, the first one is really like, it feels almost like self-parody to me i don't know if i went in with a if i went in being like i'm going to hate this christopher nolan sex scene but i i think he's trying to fight against the idea that his movies are dead sexually and he failed it sounds like he failed i think he did but i also i think he's popular at least

partially because his movies take place in a sexless universe and i think people want that from their movies like blockbuster movies well it's yeah there's so many one after that description no two after that description i want to see it even more i just have to know i have to know it's the only thing that has brought me to this movie. But yeah, there's so many threads to connect on this. But kind of the number one thought that comes to my mind is something I talked about with one of my best friends, Ashley, who's also a television writer,

which is that prior to this moment in culture, sex scenes have somewhat always, they've always been bad story-wise. So there's never never there's almost i'm gonna say deadpool is maybe the one exception where like a sex scene actually had to be there to move the story forward but usually sex scenes are like a brief intermission where like yeah you know what i mean because the moment they've gotten to like kissing we know okay so we're there story-wise so if you're gonna show the full sex like you just kind of sit in it and so then it really is to be very it's just exists to be a sexy sex scene which was way more needed in previous generations where like that was the only time you were gonna see a

sexy sexy sex scene right yeah i was without wearing like the trench coat in times square yeah i was thinking that like some examples of sex scenes that needed to exist and that i think should inspire people to like think more creatively about sex scenes is like parasite has a really interesting sex scene not an american film but it like shows this like really wealthy couple like kind of having this weird sexual encounter on the couch where they're like fantasizing that they are like part of this lower class that they yeah look down on and suppress I'm like I thought that was like a good that's a good one yeah that's another good one we, oh, there's like meaning and purpose for'm bringing up to say like i think if our previous canon of sex scenes like had had any sort of other like sexual lens on them that could turn

a different portion of people on i wonder if we'd be having this conversation but because of that people are sort of looking at this as like oh like you can go back and look at um what was i just watching it was uh it was a movie where you're like oh it has a lot of sex scenes and you re-watch them and you're like oh all of them rape scenes like and you just don't um it was a it was a movie that had let me look hold on it was sharon uh sharon stone basic instinct i think it was basic instinct and i'm just like blinded by the most famous part of that movie and to but i think it is basic instinct but there are other sex scenes in that movie and they're just all rapes and and but they but they're films like sex scenes and so

right i think this sort of like pushback to stuff like that is is built on a hundred years of only one version of sex being shown on screen yeah i think like just the other thing as we were like thinking about the nolan and like is he popular because he's like a particular like sex doesn't exist in his cinematic universe and like his sex scene in abenheimer seems like it was directed by somebody who's never had sex like i was also thinking about tom cruise who like the whole kind of argument against him has always been this guy has like no sexual charisma like he just like you can't really picture him having sex really he's like kind of this beautiful creature who doesn't have any like you can't really picture him and like the other sex scene that made me identify other than the Oppenheimer one the one

that like made me identify with all the people who are like please stop was the fucking Top Gun 2 sex scene where it's like uh-huh yeah it's just so weird it like all of a sudden the movie starts to feel like it's an ad for a retirement home like not that they're like that old but like the vibe of it is just like this like it like feels like a like viagra commercial like totally because it's just like dead and remote and like takes place in heaven or something it's really weird and the you know the first hop gun the most sexual scene in that movie is Abs at the beach playing volleyball. And they crush it.

You know what I mean? And then in the second movie, they did it again. And I don't know if you noticed, but they had to shoot Tom Cruise profile and silhouette shirtless. It was a very long lens, technically shirtless on the beach. But we're really going to focus on Miles. You know what I mean? Jeans are super high for no reason this is just how people wear their jeans now yeah yeah but but they crushed it in that beach scene too

and where it's like no one's no one is i don't feel like yeah i feel like on the most part it's like we can take sexy abs at the beach but like actual sexual intercourse like i don't even know like don't film it it does feel like very uncomfortable which yeah i have to say that when you brought up this topic because personally i feel like this is when it goes into gen z i'm sort of out on all the like gen z is not having sex it's like they were in a pandemic during the years when you learn how to put your mouth on someone else's face. So, you know what I mean? So like where there's going to be a lag and like, you know, I'm not believing all of these, the so-called data of like they don't believe in sex anymore. I don't think that's it.

But what I do think is true is that there's been a lot of sexual education, but not that second step into the nuance of sexual education. step into the nuance of sexual education so like things feel very cut and dry to the point that in the till in the television show swarm which chloe bailey was in i don't know if you guys saw that but it has a very very graphic sex scene in the pilot and a bunch of people online uh truly believed they were having sex so they wrote into the television show accounts and on tiktok to be like why did they make chloe bailey have sex and seem to have no understanding of the art of television yeah right pantomime yes like pantomime set you guys they're not it's not happening there's like you know protect sheer protection cups over their parts but that's where i'm like this is a nuance understanding mental alacrity how to live in the real world issue and less a like what is like we don't like sex anymore issue because i there's

like a few ways to look because i think of like erotic thrillers, right? And it was like the 80s, we were, you know, the conservatism of the 80s sort of like helped build up the pressure for like in the mid 80s for these films to start propping up, like, you know, coming up and people like, oh, actually, fuck with this. And by the 90s, we're so horny and dumb. We're like, these are our greatest movies. And I think like there's an uptake for like a few reasons after like it's

just kind of as we were talking about this and just like researching the topic and everything is like one really interesting thing as you point out is like a lot of those erotic thrillers have like sex can be dangerous but also these women are crazy and will kill you yeah and i think part of that is like the aids epidemic was already making people question the quote unquote dangers of sex or how sex could lead to like your eventual death. Right. And then there's also like this sort of evolution of sexual agency where like, again, to your point about these like male writers and directors, like it almost feels like for them, they're getting out their anxieties over, like, an evolving new form of sexual politics coming out. And like, what does that mean for dudes? Like, are they just going to fucking kill us? Yeah.

Yeah. What that is. And also, what sexually turns them on? You know what I mean? It's like one dude's fantasy of, like, she says no, but she means yes. I said one dude. I meant hundreds of millions of dudes. But who made all the art.

Yes. I said one dude. I met hundreds of millions of dudes, but who made all the art. But it's like had had there been like to take this to the to the porn conversation, like like it is so hard to find porn that that that I personally like. I know this is TMI, but it's more of like a female thing of like and I'm talking about like I don't like when the house is dirty and i'm not talking about like i like it clean it's just like if there's like a super dirty mattress it's just so distracting like or like put a sheet on it you guys like what is it and it's just like the actual ambiance and the actual atmosphere and it's like stuff like that isn't thought through and i feel like if our history of sex on TV and film had included other people's perspectives or point of views of what turned them on. Yeah.

Yeah. There wouldn't be such a backlash right now. I don't mind a backlash against sex scenes that aren't doing anything interesting or like, same. Yeah. Like, like the Oppenheimer sex scene,

like the, or not mission, the Top Gun two sex scene. Like I'm fine with people lashing back against that because it's not doing anything i just don't want people to not feel like they can express that part of the human experience because like there's something bad about inherently bad about sex scenes as opposed to like there being something that is inherently bad about how sex scenes and sexual like energy was expressed in film up to this point that's really well said yeah there's i mean like there's other dimensions too like when you look at it like

i'm also like where does capitalism factor into this too because you know like there was an analysis of like from just like around 2000 like post post nine, like right after 9-11, like 2006, like all these films and like seeing that sex or nudity like was not like a like a revenue booster for films at all. Like it really did nothing like didn't move the needle at all. And then you think about like, you know, I guess Eyes Wide Shut is just like our sort of last or prestige erotic thriller and that's 2000 and there are a couple you know trickling out after that but then you have like lord of the rings and harry potter come out and then the studios are saying like oh man these like broad fucking movies like we can just start like these are just money printing things and like maybe we just need to go all in on this shit too so i know there's like a dimension of

that but then i also think of like the taboo element too which is like to your point even chelsea like you know in the 80s and 90s like this was like a date night thing where like you go like i don't know like there's some sexy shit going on up there and we don't have to feel bad about it because there's no online porn where we can just kind of like blow the doors open on everything we desire so it fills that sort of need. But then there's also like the taboo where like, I remember as like a 10 year old middle schooler, you would talk about these movies,

not even because they were worked. Like, it's like a good movie. You'd be like, did you see it? Did your parents let you watch that? Minute 46 and 30 seconds in on the VHS. Exactly. And for us, you will know what it looks like if you go to that scene you're like what and so i feel like for my generation too

like we were like somewhat educating ourselves you know this really bizarre way with these films but then also i think we like the 90s were so hypersexual like i feel like it also burned us out to the point where now you're looking for something a little more nuanced rather than like well when's the part where they're going to show a topless woman in the movie totally and also i think it's sort of that thing we're talking about which is like it's just a call for better art and also i think there is a call for better porn like consensual porn porn being like i think there's just a call for like being better because we did get educated and now with the internet this generation is like the most educated i mean i was just thinking about how harvey weinstein you know maker of many many miramax films made frida kahlo which was this

you know supposed supposed to be prestige film with salma hayek and there's this famous story where he's like you need to do a full frontal naked lesbian scene in the Frida Kahlo movie um or I'm not gonna make it and Salma thinks to herself like I really think the story about this woman is important so I guess I'm gonna do this sort of softcore porn scene that makes absolutely no fucking sense again because people like Harvey Weinstein were in charge and I feel like it's more of a pushback to that or even going to swarm where they think like you know the sex scene is kind of really glorifying the male character and chloe bailey's character isn't it's a very like male sex scene again and they're sort of like what about her consent why does she have to be used like this? Granted, I don't think they're understanding it's fake,

but that sort of nuance of like, this is so silly, but it's like they've been taught about consent and me too and assault and being better, but also not how to still be sexy or how to still like go forward with it. And so it probably does feel like a very like, just don't do that type of situation.

Or that it could be a statement. I actually haven't seen Swarm, but like Swarm, but like it could be a statement about like, you know, every film character is not meant to be a model of virtue, right? Like sometimes you're showing bad people doing bad things or like, and the like that, I feel like that becomes a problem when you're not allowed to do that without being seen as like approving of the behavior that you're depicting in the movie right yeah and i feel like i've seen that a lot too which kind of goes again to like the nuance in art and how like that has sort of that conversation i feel like has gotten so stilted

in places like tiktok whereas other forums, it's still alive. Right. Let's take a quick break real quick and we'll come back and keep talking about this. We'll be right back. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed.

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Listen to In Our Own World as a part of the My Cultura podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't worry, we promise to avoid any black holes. Most of the time. And we're back. And Miles, I think you were about to ask oh just yeah i mean like you know the other thing is like we're just kind of the evolution i just think of like where i got my sexy imagery as someone born in the 80s like through you know like coming of age and then like late 90s aughts and things like that and it feels like at a certain point like it was like oh a van damme movie is

gonna have boobies in it like that was a shorthand in my mind like you you were like conditioned to know like certain directors actors whatever like there would be that sort of thing and then you but but then like a lot of the sex or sexual content just really kind of shifted to like our popular culture like it didn't have to live in these sort of movies like basic what about basic instinct kind of thing it's like it's in my music videos it's in the advertisements it's on cable tv at night so it's almost like i don't know if it's like also again this sort of diversification of where that sort of content lived to the point that it was like omnisexual, like everywhere was sex.

So that also feels like another point where I guess the appeal of it only getting it directly from film begins to wane a bit. Yeah, and also like if you're like, okay, check out this Van Damme sexy scene or I can go to my only fans of a real person who is alive alive who's doing my niche fetish and will look into the eyes of the camera and say my name right yeah what's like you know what i

mean so when you go back to a van damme movie you're like boring stupid move it along like yeah i was just thinking of remember when seth mcane did that Oscar song called boobs yeah the movies you can see boobs in and that was 2013 and the response was like yawn like yeah on like yeah that's all you're in it for and it's like shitty to treat women that way and it's like I'm still I'm still here for a song like I still need to get to a place where like Seth MacFarlane can sing a song about full frontal dick. And he's got 30 movies to reference. Like, I think I've got one.

The piano. So we're there. Harvey Keitel. Yeah. There you go. I mean, so I do still think it's interesting. So like the miles you were talking about, like they made it,

did an analysis in the early two thousands and found that like nudity was not something that drove money making. And I think rather than just that being always true, I think that's probably an indicator of like changing tastes in like film goers. And like the whole thesis that I have about movies is like, yes, they're like commercial ventures, but they people pay money to go see them because they are getting to see something that is happening that they can't really access inside them up on the screen. Right. 2000s like as the country was becoming like explicitly fascist in the like war on terror and you know that that was a time when suddenly people were like yeah yeah we don't we don't want

to see this shit and i agree like it definitely has to do with like that there became there like suddenly there were better places to get that but i also i don, like there, it does feel like there, one of these articles from, I think, Slash Film was saying that it, it's, there's been like sort of a internalization of the PG-13 rating when it comes to like our movies, where that's just kind of what people expect from movies and i i do think that there's like i think that happened because corporations came through and like overtook everything you know like the the big example that this blood knife article uses the blood knife article that we'll link off to on the footnotes is called uh everyone's beautiful nobody's horny or something to that effect and it's about like superhero movies where everybody you know is just trained within just like an inch of like perfection just like and that that goes for the superhero it also goes for like the fbi agent and the background character and you know like that's just how everybody is supposed to look perfect

but then our favorite filmmakers this guy whose movies take place in a world where like dreams don't have sex in them and i think that there is something to the idea that like so fascist art like when you look at like what was popular in nazi germany like the films of lenny riefenstahl with like these documentaries where they would like glorify the human body and particularly the male body and like its strength and muscles but like completely it was all about power dynamics right it was nothing about sex and in fact like sex was like to be completely removed from the the equation and i feel like there is like we obviously those movies also had like hitler and it was like and all of the sexual energy is to be like sublimated

to your religious fealty to the Fuhrer. Horny for Hitler only. Horny for Hitler only. And now it feels like it is done to sublimate to the broader ideals of capitalism. And the fact that there's an internal understanding of, yeah, why would they put like iron man fucking in in this movie like it wouldn't make as much money and i root for this movie because like that's that's my team is marvel and so like and marvel is winning against dc and so i don't know i just i

think it's interesting i don't think it is like i don't think it's a telltale symptom that like america is headed towards some sort of fascism with like a central fascist leader but i do think it says something interesting about our relationship to this all-consuming like capitalistic ideal where it's like yeah no we just take the sex out of everything because like that is not actually making money for the thing that we want to see make money. And we're all on board with that. Not just David Zaslav. Like we're all on board with that because it doesn't like I can just get my sexual content elsewhere. I'm going to say I'm going to push back on it. Yeah. Having written in late night comedy for I can't now i'm trying to do the math i don't

know but i feel like the like are we turning fascist think pieces like make the rounds every three years you know what i mean and it's like are we are we are we to the point where like it's not even gonna matter because the term fascist now means something different to everyone it's lost all meaning like we're never gonna know you know what i mean it's gonna be here and no one will have any way to see it on it but taking this back to where we started the bachelor i will bring us into my main basis for this argument which is that the bachelor is dying a slow death. It's definitely slow, but it's just every season it's dying. It's dying. And this last year we got reality shows about dating, like Love is Blind, like The Ultimatum, Queer Love, which is...

MILF Manor. One of the best shows I've ever watched. What'd you say, Miles? I said MILF Manor. MILF Manor. I did watch every episode yes i did and that's actually a great one to reference because in the ultimatum queer love they've got cameras on and you i mean you're watching porn for a second and you're watching porn of someone you've intimately gotten to know like all their relationship issues and that show was wildly popular and on tiktok the discourse about queer love stories and like there was an entire storyline of like you fingered the

woman i'm in love with and where's your fingers go when did they start and how did it happen and is that considered sex and then there's a conversation of like everyone you know i mean is that penetrative sex or not do we count that as sex what is the consent needed for finger sex versus other sex anyways and you're like and tiktok is like going nuts and loving this conversation and everyone is loving that show and i think it's because it was it was showing sex in the way that we understand and want to see it now which is real authentic it's not through this like very singular patriarchal lens even on like love islands they're they live in bikinis they live in bikinis and they switch partners every other day for 50 episodes every season

and it's crushing it like love is blind you know they talk about are they having sex are they not meanwhile the bachelor which is a very sterile show which would fit this sort of like fascist thing where it's like overnight sweets like the door closes and like who knows um is dying a death in popularity and so interesting if we look to reality tv i would say we are still very much here for sex but we're no longer here for it in the ways that are harmful yeah like it doesn't feel good and then if sexing is to like make you feel sexy you don't want to feel bad while you're watching it. Yeah. So maybe my ultimate plea is like that movies do something interesting with their sex scenes because that's what people want.

And it's not that people are necessarily fascist. Yo. That they just want something interesting and not like the traditional 80s movie sex scene. Yeah. To Chelsea's point, like, again, I was raised on the buck wild movie sex scene yeah to chelsea's point like again i was raised on the buck wild movie sex scenes you know what i mean and then then you know the internet kind of was like i was like okay i think i know what i like and to the point to nuance like now i'm like how come they're not kissing in this porno i'm like nah nah i'm off this like y'all need to be making

out and shit like i need to like i want to see y'all be passionate right or even like in Bridgerton I just started watching the second scene there's like one moment where this one character she just says she said Mr. Bridgerton and they just have like a look at each other and I was like oh shit like and then they say shit except like there was just a very tense moment and the release was just saying it and they shared a look and i was even like damn that was all right like yeah yeah we're like you're just like doing it well you know like that was hot and i didn't need to just see you coldly simulate motions right right exactly like making the back of the beast with two backs as it were and and i think yeah we're i think because we've moved on

from just being like will they show sex they do yes and then once everyone right now this is i do want to say this is a direct attack on me because that is a direct quote from something i said earlier before we started rolling so i didn't do the fist pump though like i didn't do the double fist pump yes um but like yeah that now we're so like you know it's like when you like you're you get introduced to a new cuisine in the beginning anything will do and then as you formulate taste you're like no actually i'm like it's not just about having you know steak or whatever or whatever you know you just you begin to actually understand what it is that is appealing to you and i think think, yeah, I think it's like a sort of

simultaneous cultural evolution along with the amount of things we've been exposed to that kind of puts us in this different place. And I think it's the problem with art meeting capitalism right now, especially as like we're in the writer's strike and the whole like you go woke, you go broke movement, which is that like people come in and try and quantify it and do the data and the statistics and what's selling when what's not selling. And actually this is in, and that is in blah, blah,

blah. But like the thesis is good. We would love a good movie. We would love a good movie. And the moment we get a good movie, they go, Oh, do that again.

Do that again. Or like, you know, network television was dead. Then Abbott elementary comes up. Right. It was, it was good. Right. It was good.

Right. Everyone goes, workplace comedies, right? Workplace comedies. And you're like, oh, okay. So that's not, that was not the only thing that made that show good, you know? And I just feel like people want really great art. And every time it shows up, they're going to love it. And every time it's shitty, they're going to hate it. And then people are going to drain it down into headline pieces of what could sell more or less

and they're going to miss the point, which is that if it's good, it sells. And if it's bad, it does not. Right. Yeah, I think that's right. Well, Chelsea, such a pleasure having you. Thank you. I knew I would learn a lot.

I did learn a lot. Were you guys horny the whole episode? I just need to know, like, you know, was it a horny episode for you guys? I was quaking. I mean, you could literally see that I was quaking. Yeah. Yeah, I just need to know, like, you know, was it a horny episode for you guys? I was quaking. I mean, you could literally see that I was quaking. Yeah.

Yeah. I feel bad for Justin. He's going to have to cut out all this. Yeah. I was an edgelord the whole time. Oh, yeah. Shout out the goon,

everybody gooning out there. Yeah. It was all, I was all sax music in the background playing the whole time. Where can people find you, follow you, all that good stuff? Oh oh my gosh please come listen to my podcast it's called celebrity book club with chelsea davantes but it's so much more you guys we discuss uh female celebrity memoirs we also do some pop culture stuff i inspired by you guys i did a an entire bachelor episode talking about politics and where we're at

now and uh someone pointed out to me that in our Republican years is when we had our worst bachelors, too. It's, you know, the method, still, I am our data scientist on elections. And so, anyways, come listen there. And I'm on Instagram at Chelsea DeVantes. And I do, like, I post things from books and stuff and have conversations over there. Yeah.

Wait, so the thesis is that when The Bachelor is bad, we elect Republicans? No, no. It's when we have Republicans in office is also cultural times where we are enjoying shittier bachelors who break the rules and are only out for themselves and are selfish pieces of shit. But they're so entertaining. So like Pete's The Pilots, you know, like if you just look at our trump bachelors they're the worst bachelors of all time and they're very selfish dudes oh interesting so

maybe that's due to casting on on the part of the producers of the bachelor well yeah and i think thinking of like like where we're at like a Ari. You guys remember Ari as a bachelor? They brought him back and he like does the old switcheroo at the end. You guys are nodding, but you have no idea what I'm talking about. No, I remember because Anna would regularly play. Because what's Ari's last name? It's like Louis. It's like a.

Budokan? Oh, is that one? Ari, gray hair, race car driver. Oh, yeah, yeah. The race car driver guy. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. I'm savvy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. The race car driver guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

I'm savvy. I'm savvy. Yeah. Colton, who is like in the closet, did an entire season as a fully gay man choosing one woman. He then stalks her. She has to take out a restraining order on him. And then he's like, I've been gay the whole time.

Like, this is like, this is where we were at in the Trump years. Right. Amazing. Hey, did we get our first black bachelor in the Trump era too? Right on. Yes, we did. And that's also when we got our racial reckoning season. Yeah.

Where they brought in one black guy to host the reunion. And then guess what? He left. Has never been heard from again. They brought him in for the racial reckoning, then sent him away. Anyways, what was I saying? Follow me me on instagram get more takes like that is there a work of media you've been enjoying oh my gosh so much you know what let's just give a shout out to milf manor it is not what you think it is no it is because it starts and they're like you're gonna be dating young men and they're like

that's tight and then the gate opens and it's all of their sons. Yeah. Okay. So it's all of their sons. And then they're like, and you're going to share a room with your son, but you're going to date the other sons of these other ladies here. And you're like, this is maniacal. And by the end of the episode, they've all like, they're all just kind of like teaching their sons about like how to put a condom on a banana. Oh, wow.

It's it's also one of the worst made reality shows I've ever seen. Like there's no host. No host. It feels like it feels like Lord of the Flies with like weird incestuous prompts that they have to. Yes. They send them a text message like read this lab. They're like, all right, I guess we're going to go to commercial break now. And then we come back.

We're going to put on blindfolds. We're going to feel up our sons we're gonna try and choose which one is my son oh this is definitely him oh this is my son this is my boy there are some there are some moments where i'm like they've destroyed my mind completely like in ways that i did not i did not expect and i think i don't know if it's because of the depravity or whoever was behind it. Anyway, it's out there. This episode has been the greatest ad for trash reality television, maybe ever. Good, good. This is what I'm about.

I guess we should ask the question, if Germany had access to trash television, is the whole Third Reich avoided, maybe? Will trash television save us or bring us our next president? That's right. Miles, where can people find you? Is there a work of media you've been enjoying? At Miles of Gray, where they got at symbols.

Find Jack and I on a basketball podcast. Miles and Jack got mad boosties. If you like trash realities, guess what? Check Sophie Alexander out on 420 Day Fiance, where we talk about 90 Day Fiance, which is also pretty garbage. And then if you like some true crime, you can still catch me on The Good Thief talking about the Greek Robin Hood and all that. I don't have a piece of media, but I've been watching the newest season of How To with John Wilson. And there was a couple moments where I've been like, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. Anyway, it's always an interesting show.

So maybe check that out. All right. A tweet I've been enjoying is actually Ben Rosen at Ben underscore Rosen tweeted, John Wilson narrating the Zapruder film. So you decide to go for a drive. But not everyone thinks that's a good idea. Wow, dude, the delivery on that. And Pat Tobin retweeted an image.

He said, I don't know who made this, but I think about it a lot. And it's a side-by-side. The sky in scenic locations is just a blue sky. The sky at grocery stores. And it's like this gorgeous, dramatic cloud sunset, which just totally rang true to me. I've seen some of the greatest skies of my life doing the most boring, mundane shit in my life. And then you go on vacation to someplace and it's just blue skies. So anyway, fuck blue skies is what I'm saying. Wow.

And shout out to grocery stores. You can find me on Twitter at Jack underscore O'Brien. You can find us on Twitter at daily zeitgeist. We're at the daily zeitgeist on Instagram. We have a Facebook fan page and a website daily zeitgeist.com where we post our episodes and our foot notes. We link off to the information that we talked about in today's episode as well as a song that we think you might enjoy uh miles what song do you think people might

just you know something nice get us into the the week this is george ben uh j-o-r-g-e-b-e-n uh and this track is called domingas it's so dope george ben is one of my favorite brazilian artists i'll never i'll keep saying that every time someone asks me that uh and his singing is fantastic like the beginning has like a really dope you know like i feel like if i was sampling i'd sample that first maybe 20 seconds but anyway dominguez by george ben all right we will link off to that in the footnotes the daily zeitgeist production of iheart radio for more podcasts from iheart radio visit the iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

That's going to do it for us this morning. Back this afternoon to tell you what is trending, and we will talk to y'all then. Bye. Stay horny. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series, Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil.

I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry, Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in.

Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.