The Daily Zeitgeist - Neo Colonial National Parks 09.21.22

Episode Date: September 21, 2022

In episode 1335, Jack and Miles are joined by large carnivore ecologist, conservationist and host of Going Wild with Dr. Rae Wynn-Grant, Dr. Rae Wynn-Grant and super producer Trisha Mukherjee to discuss… why Jurassic Park is the greatest movie of all time… recycling isn’t as dope as you think it is… why the outdoors can feel unwelcoming for people of color… the colonial and racist history of John Muir and America’s national parks and much more! 1. Don't Cancel John Muir LISTEN: New Gold - Gorillaz feat. Tame Impala & Bootie BrownSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me for I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and Shekinah Church. Listen to Forgive Me for I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just

starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports.

Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. I'm Keri Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry, Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese. People are talking about women's basketball just because

of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's basketball. And on this new season, we'll cover all things sports and culture. Listen to Naked Sports on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio apps, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by Diet Coke. Hello, the internet, and welcome to season 255, episode 3 of Dirty Leaves, I Can't See. Production of iHeartRadio.

This is a podcast where we take a deep dive into America's shared consciousness, and it is Wednesday, September 21st, 2022. So... 922. National Chai Day. National New York Day. National Pecan Cookie Day day or pecan cookie day depending on how you pronounce it but i love you are i love pecans as the as the main feature in

a cookie pecan okay yeah i've never had a pecan cookie i guess what oh okay so it's just like a sugar cookie with chopped up yeah i always i always associate them with like those tins of cookies that are mostly dust seem to be the main like they're very dry yes yes i've come to appreciate them in uh old age because you can like dunk them in coffee and stuff but when i was a kid i was like just your mouth will never have spit in it again There's desiccant gel in my mouth. Yeah. Anyways, my name is Jack O'Brien, a.k.a. Potatoes O'Brien, in solidarity with, you know, my Irish brethren who I understand are just trying to find direction in these first days after the passing of the Queen. direction in these first days after the past of the queen um so we're thinking of you and i'm thrilled to be joined as always by my co-host mr miles gray this royal knob built a city had to find somewhere stupid charles could play sausage fingers doing their creeping. Just don't make them use a fountain pen.

The people all y'all yearning for Poundbury to be burning. Curving, curving, curving, curving, curving roads for funsies. Okay, shout out to the brew who obviously look we're talking about poundbury the town that prince charles designed with roads that are just curved for no reason at all which i believe did you say curving for funsies somebody did yeah i think you said for funsies just curving the roads for funsies i'll take the funsies i mean yeah i mean it was a group effort honestly uh so i've shout out tooundbury, if you live in that place. Where Prince Charles designed it for you.

I really am curious if we have a single listener in Poundbury. Okay, if you are, call in. You will be on the show. If you are one listener in Poundbury, the weird housing estate that Prince Charles designed. Or just know someone there. I want to have a listener go and tell us what it's like. Yeah. It sounds very strange.

Like FaceTime us from Poundbury. Yeah. Anyways, Miles. Yes. We are thrilled to be joined by an acclaimed wildlife ecologist and conservationist who specializes in researching how human activity influences the behavior of wild animals. She's the host of the PBS Nature podcast Going Wild

with Dr. Ray Wingrant which makes sense because she is Dr. Ray Wingrant! Dr. Ray! What's up Dr. Ray? I'm here. Dr. Wingrant. Dr. Dr. Dr. Is that cool? Just Dr. Dr? Dr. Dr. Wynn Grant. Dr. Wynn Grant. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr.

Is that cool? Just Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. It's fine. Yeah. Yeah. I was, I did ask if I could call you Dr. Grant because I just, you know, for Jurassic Park purposes. Out of respect.

Yeah. No, I love that. But you know, the answer is no, I can't like shade the Wynn side of my whole family. Yeah, exactly. Makes sense. Makes sense. And you did say Jurassic Park is a seminal film for you as well. Oh, my gosh.

Yeah. I mean, what year did it come out? I don't know. But like 93. OK, I was eight years old. I definitely did not see it in theaters, but probably like the next year when it was on VHS, it became my favorite. How could it not? Like, I felt like I was one of those kids, like the blonde girl with the hair and the like kitchen

scene, you know, heart pumping. And then of course, like I was a little baby nerd and like wildlife nerd and like an extinction nerd. So I was super into the whole like concepts did i possibly also have like a very early sexual awakening with with some of the cast members like in their iconic scenes possibly i had a little baby crush like we're not saying which one. Possibly Jeff Goldblum is like seared into my memory. When that shirt's open, I was even like, is that how a man's body should look? Oh my gosh, he's all injured

and vulnerable. Like, come on. With your nice tailored shirt open, we see you, Dr. Malcolm. No wonder I'm a scientist. I was curious, like sort of because you are, you know, you do this now for a living and you're great at what you do, that you always had this interest in my mind. I was hoping like, did Jurassic Park completely kick this off for you? But it was just a goal, a light post on the way. Yeah. Well, OK, so there's kind of like

two angles to this story. Like there's a very basic one where, again, I was a little baby nerd and my favorite shows to watch on TV were nature shows. So like the David Attenborough, the Steve Irwin, like the, you know, the classic like British Australian nature shows, loved them. And so when I was a kid, people would say, what do you want to be when you grow up? And I'd say, I want to be a nature show host. Like, I want to see wild animals. You know, I was from California. I didn't necessarily have this understanding that nature was like outside my door, like, the only way I can do that is to be a nature show host. Cause I did not have anyone in my like sphere who went into the wilderness. And so I was like, nature show hosts do that for a living. That's what I want to do. I want to be up close and personal with wild animals. That's the career. And so then like later, like college age, I learned

that like, Oh, there's like a science to that. Like there's people who like study endangered species and like develop the science to prevent their extinction. That was like a way more accessible career path than like being like the lucky like bingo winner who gets to be a nature show host, you know? So I latched on to that. The other way I'll say it is that like I was a child of the nineties, right?

So like we were getting all those fear tactics like thrown at us all the time, right? Like the D.A.R.E. officer would come to the playground and be like, don't go trick-or-treating. Like people are going to give you drugs and you'll die. They're going to try and give you drugs for free. Yeah. Like there's going to be like free drugs disguised as candy, you know, like be afraid of everything. And so I was super afraid of wildlife extinction. You know, it was like whales, you know, it was like save the whales, like save the pandas, like save like eagles, like bald eagles are national. The California condor.

Yeah, like they were going extinct. Right. And so it was like super alarming and everything was alarming. But I kind of like latched on to that stuff. And when I learned like there are people out there like creating solutions for this, I was like, I have to be one of those people. Like, otherwise, what are we going to do? Like a world no equals? Like I got to help. Yeah. Amazing. I've calmed down like these days I do it cause I love it. I'm more relaxed, but it started kind of out of like a love for TV and then like a subsequent like nineties anxiety. Yeah.

Did you also have like, like those zoo books and stuff or like those, like those like animal file books that I remember my school library or like every month there'd be like new dossiers on animals. Totally. And then I read like anamorphs books so like the kids that like morph into animals like fight aliens and you know yeah the whole thing okay you were there i'm just realizing it's weird that jurassic park like of the scientists they bring

to this expedition slash like testing out of the park. None of them are scientists. They bring two like dinosaur bone specialists. I know that's not the technical term. She's a paleobotanist. And then a mathematician and a lawyer. And they don't bring anybody who like works with wild animals.

No actual biologists. It feels like a miss. We need a remake. We a like a docu series yeah the real jurassic park missed by richard attenborough who is david attenborough's brother um so the attenborough family very uh influential do you think there's a way i mean and i hate to just indulge you use your professional knowledge to indulge my stupid question is there a way to do jurassic park responsibly if we could oh oh that's big because you study carnivores huge question that's a huge i like to start

up front with hypotheticals to our specialized episode you know like the reason this is like also kind of a touchy subject is that there's this company out there that is doing this. But the woolly mammoth. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It is really happening. Like it is moving forward.

It is happening. Like they contacted me last year to ask if I would like get involved. And I said no, because I was like the science the science is there like it's not a question of like is this possible can we do it like the answer is like for sure it's an amazing feat of science but like yeah we can do it should we do it and will it actually question contribute to like climate mitigation which is one of the things they're arguing. They're like, if we have these animals like trudging around the tundra, it can allow the soil to sequester carbon better. Like maybe we should just like stop emitting greenhouse gases.

If they invited me to be involved in that, which they probably will eventually. I'm sure I'm on their list. I would just reply with a link to jurassic park to the movie jurassic park and no no further questions the dr ian malcolm quote your scientists are so preoccupied with whether they could they didn't stop to think if they should now look at my chest hair yeah now look at my chest hair my ass uh amazing all right dr ray we're gonna get to know you a little bit better in a moment first we, we're going to tell our listeners a couple of the things we are talking about. It's a Trisha episode. We're going to bring in super producer Trisha Mukherjee. Also, you know, daily zeitgeist correspondent Trisha Mukherjee to talk about the history of white supremacy and conservation and environmentalism and the the history and present of it and you know just some of the amazing things that you've done and talked about

on your show um we're going to maybe check in with what's going on with donald trump's attempt the the special master strategy the special master gambit sounds like a chess movie they're in court right now as we're recording and i'm reading like a play-by-play on twitter and it is not going well for him yeah wild so might talk about that we might even talk about why um nobody watches kids especially don't watch tv anymore plenty more but first dr ray we like to ask our guest, what is something from your search history? Oh, yeah. Wait, I wrote this down because I, like I told you, prepared for this.

And so, okay, so the last thing, the last thing from my Google search history from yesterday when I prepared was Googling my hairstylist's booking site. Okay. Like I needed to book some appointments for my hairstylist, but not for me. It's because I'm a mama and I have two little girls and it is school picture week and I may or may not have dropped the ball on the preparation. And in particular, On the preparation. And in particular, like I am a black woman. I have like, you know, a black husband. We are a black family. So hair is not necessarily simple. Right. It's not like a little wash and style morning of. Right. It's like a whole like wash day, blow dry, braid down, like proper style for my kids kids a skill that i did not have myself and so do i have like a relationship with my hairstylist where i can just text her and be like sos like help me out no pictures so i had to go the formal route and like find her website and get a last

minute booking and i failed and so now i may or may not be panicking about that. So that's where my search. When are the school pictures? When are the school pictures? Thursday. It's Thursday. Today's Tuesday. Okay. Look,

I gang, I know some of y'all live out there and I know people. Yeah, we got, we got all kinds of look, maybe somebody from LA can hook you up. Okay. Please help her daughters.

I mean, it don't make it crazy, but like little, little brown heads need to be braided up, please. Right, exactly. Let's not. Oh, please, somebody. I get so stressed out by school pictures.

I have a six-year-old and a four-year-old. And all these other kids, when I see the pictures in the little yearbook at the end of the year, they nail it. pictures in the little yearbook at the end of the year, like they, they nail it. Like for some reason they just, they have a way of getting these other little kids to just be natural. And then my kids are always like, they have their eyes almost closed and it looks like a dental exam. Like they're just, and I'm like, I know I've taken pictures of these kids. I know that this is not impossible, but yeah, I get very stressed out so we do a lot of you know facial warm-ups at home um you know pose i just i just stop them in the middle of

whatever they're doing and say pose and they have to give me a hit your angles hit your angles hit your angles yeah i'm i was the worst picture taker yeah I was too I looked like I was trying to fuck with my parents like with how bad my pictures were like I told you I don't like it so you want me to smile you'll get this that's the most pained smile you've ever seen a child do

a smile from a child that somehow says fuck you damn he's only in kindergarten you managed to say all that with that smile. What is something you think is overrated? Oh, wait, what did I write down? What, something I, oh, this is controversial. So I did not think I was going to jump right into controversy.

Let's go. Let's do it. That's something that as an expert, I believe is overrated is recycling. Okay. Go on. You didn't think I was going to say that. I'm not saying don't recycle, but if you learn more about

what our quote unquote recycling is, how effective recycling is, you will learn that it is a freaking disaster. The whole system is a hot mess and recycling does not reach or even come close to reaching the goals we think it does. In a lot of ways, there's an argument it does more harm than

good. Like it takes a lot of fossil fuel emissions to recycle things, like to turn like aluminum or glass into new aluminum and glass. It actually like we have to pollute a lot to get that done. There's like so many issues with it. Right. So a solution, please keep recycling, but like even better reduce your consumption and reuse the things that you consume. So like emphasis on reduce and reuse recycling is overrated.

Yep. I was, I was shamed by my reusable shopping bags like the thick plastic ones that a lot of the stores got around like the thin bag bandwidth like well now we give reusable ones out and i was just like i could make a submarine if i melted all this plastic down like full size yeah and i don't throw it away too because part of me's like you can't recycle that shit and i'm like i don't want to waste it so then eventually i am like able to use those a little bit better but now i always bring my big ass like reusable bag yeah you're like canvas tote yep yeah yeah yeah yeah uh because yes i've i've been thoroughly just put into a state of panic over

like how terrible i am with that kind of stuff reduce and reuse that's the way yeah and it's wild how much packaging stuff too like says it has like a recycling logo on it yet you have to go take some things to like specialized places like you can't just put that in like your city recycling can wait i learned you will die i recently learned again i just got a whole like proper education on this so now i can speak as an expert i recently learned again i just got a whole like proper education on this so now i can speak as an expert i recently learned that in like several states in this country it is legal to put a recycling symbol on anything even if it's not recyclable what like there's like as a design and people use the loophole they're like it's just good marketing for recycling it's kind of like it's kind of like saying like if you can figure out a way to recycle this go ahead but we don't

have a way wow yeah yeah it's wild it is it is so exactly so american anyway so like don't think you're doing something by recycling it is overrated. There are better ways. Reduce, reuse at a minimum. Yeah. I just like to collect those plastic bags that have the big recycling thing on it because it proves that I'm here to save the earth. As many of those as I can have. It shows your conscience. Yeah. What is something that you think is underrated? Yeah, I really am really into sweet potatoes. I think that sweet potatoes do not get nearly enough love and play. And I don't mean like doing anything fancy with them. I don't mean like that they're versatile. I'm saying like bake a sweet potato and eat it and you will be

so happy with yourself. Like people don't have sweet potatoes enough as a part of their meal. And so I am like sweet potato, like I eat so many sweet potatoes. I feel like I should like invest in a farm or something. Like I have my whole family, like I don't cube them. We don't do sweet potato fries, like proper baked sweet potatoes. My little trick is to like overcook them. Right. So like instead of an hour in the oven, like try it two hours in the oven. Right. And then like use a bunch of butter and just like put it as a side

on your dinner and like thank me later. You can eat it with a straw at that point. After two hours, you can just slurp it up. It's like dessert. It's so good. That is so good with a ton of butter. And you do like feel it. It's like dessert. It's so good. That is so good with a ton of butter. And you do like feel it. It is filling and also like provides energy.

Yeah. My body feels better after I eat that than like a baked potato. Right. With apologies to the Irish. No, it's like nutritious. It is filling. It's sweet. It's like gets you your little beta carotene there are other

varieties right you could do like a japanese sweet potato you can do a purple sweet potato like do a yam or whatever if that is actually different i don't know like yeah you know like yeah but like do it like thank me later for sure there's yeah i love sweet potatoes and in my family a lot of people love so my mom makes a japanese version of sweet potatoes because she's from japan which is like using like sugar and honey and soy sauce and sesame that's like really good and i remember my my like my black grandparents trying it and they were like what the fuck is this and then they were completely turned around uh by eating it's called daigakurimo, which is called college potato.

I don't know why it's called that. It's like the name of the recipe. But yeah, there was a video recently of this dude. I don't know if you saw it. There's a guy who does like, who had never heard of a sweet potato before. It was like this viral video where the guy's like putting like a sweet potato

through like a French fry press. And he's like, sweet potato? It's like, what is this? And he's like, yeah, it looks like a QVC segment. And he's like, I guess's like what is this and he's like yeah it looks like a qvc segment where he's like i guess i'll see and he like pushes it through and he's like this is it's orange i've never seen anything like this and i'm i couldn't believe that this person it had to have been a bit because i refuse to believe that there's a human being who has any like sort of interest in potatoes who has not seen a sweet potato before but maybe i'm but

i don't know there's like you know you get surprised like wasn't there that video like of dmx may he rest in peace when he like didn't know barack obama was the president yeah or what google was yeah i mean but he was he was also smoking crack so i want to give him a pass that you know maybe time moves at a different speed yeah time moves at different speed for dmx no it's true but there's no reason for stacy dash to not know that he died but again we had to put her in you know just sorry stacy yeah i had a friend in college who had never had a banana and like he knew what they were he wasn't he wasn't like he was like screaming at the side of it. Banana. But like he was, that was his, he, he, and he never, he refused. We were like, oh, they're so good, man. What are you doing?

And he just refused to even try bananas. Cause he was. Would it be like trying to feed a child where it's like, he'd be like. I did the plane coming in for a landing and he just, he purses. Did he articulate a reason why no he was just a quirky dude that is surprising though because again like even as kids bananas are like forced upon it's like you watch a cartoon people play tricks on each other you like slip on a banana peel that's like appealing you know yeah so central but my kids eat like so many bananas

25 bananas a day and then they get constipated. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it is not good for the digestive system. All right. Well, we're going to take a quick break. We're going to come back and talk to you a little bit more with super producer, Trisha. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series, Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church.

And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and LA-based Shekinah Church, an alleged cult that has impacted members for over two decades. Jessica and I will delve into the hidden truths between high-control groups and interview dancers, church members, and others whose lives and careers have been impacted, just like mine. Through powerful, in-depth interviews with former members and new, chilling firsthand accounts, the series will illuminate untold and extremely necessary perspectives. Forgive Me For I Have Followed will be more than an exploration. It's a vital

revelation aimed at ensuring these types of abuses never happen again. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions, like how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed?

Or can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Saner. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it? Like you miss a hundred percent of the shots you never take. Yeah. Rejection is scary, but it's better than

you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports, where we live at the intersection of sports and culture. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry, Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese.

I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Every great player needs a foil. I ain't really near them boys. I just come here to play basketball every single day, and that's what I focus on. From college to the pros, Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Angel Reese is a joy to watch.

She is unapologetically black. I love her. What exactly ignited this fire? Why has it been so good for the game? And can the fanfare surrounding these two supernovas be sustained? This game is only going to get better because the talent is getting better. This new season will cover all things sports and culture. Listen to Naked Sports on the Black Effect Podcast Network,

iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by Diet Coke. This summer, the nation watched as the Republican nominee for president was the target of two assassination attempts separated by two months. These events were mirrored nearly 50 years ago when President Gerald Ford faced two attempts on his life

in less than three weeks. President Gerald R. Ford came stunningly close to being the victim of an assassin today. And these are the only two times we know of that a woman has tried to assassinate a U.S. president. One was the protege of infamous cult leader Charles Manson. I always felt like Lynette was kind of his right hand woman. The other, a middle-aged housewife working undercover for the FBI in a violent revolutionary underground. Identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore.

The story of one strange and violent summer. This is Rip Current. Available now with new episodes every Thursday. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back and we are joined by super producer Trisha Mukherjee. Hello, good to be here. Hi, everyone. Yeah. So you, you know, we're reading through Dr. Ray's work and listening to her podcast and you begged us to come on to talk to her.

Yeah, I mean, you put together a nice story just like highlighting some of the really fascinating aspects of her work. So you want to take us through it? Yes, of course. So you want to take us through it? Yes, of course. Yeah, so I was reading about your work, Dr. Ray, and it was amazing. First of all, I would recommend that everyone listens to your podcast. Going Wild is the name, right?

Going Wild with Ray Wood Grant. That's right. Named it after myself. Nice. Smart. Good title. And so I was reading, I was seeing all these really adorable pictures of you with baby bear cubs and with like snakes and lemurs and all these other animals. It was great.

But as I was looking through these photos and just reading about your work in, you know, the hard science part of it, as well as environmental justice. I was just thinking a lot about people of color in nature, in these fields that focus on the outdoors. I love the outdoors. I really like long distance cycling and trekking and all these other adventure sport type things. But it's so rare that I see other people of color while I'm doing these things. So I know that you've also talked about this a lot. I wanted to look into why this is, you know, the history behind people of color feeling unwelcome in the outdoors and what we can do about it today. Yeah, you were talking about a book that you read, Black and Brown Faces in America's Wild Places. Yeah. So it was just this book that I came across a long time Faces in America's Wild Places? Yeah. So it was just

this book that I came across a long time ago and it was just the most simple concept. It was just photos of people of color in nature, like happy walking, you know, among the greenery. Imagine that. Yeah. Like, and I was actually shocked to see it because it made me so happy, first of all. But I was like, why does this look weird? It shouldn't look weird. Like, why has society made this something to marvel at? You know what, Trisha? There are some really beautiful photos of Dr. Martin Luther King and his family in like recreating in nature. And you never see them, right?

Like we always say the same. We see the same pictures of Martin Luther King. And like these photos are beautiful and they also seem like, like strange, like, oh, weird. Like, you know, the 60s, a black family. Yeah, like, like in, like in the forest, you know? Yeah, it's just, it's society has given us this idea that like, you know know we've been socialized

to believe that uh people of color don't exist in nature we're like a urban only yeah and like internalized it to the point where i even remember being like no i don't do that like white friends would be like we're gonna go camp i'm like no i don't camp like this is not i'm not i have no concept of people that look like me doing that so it didn't never occurred to me to engage with nature like in that sense too but I'm sure like anything in this country we have you know we can all we can draw lines back to an earlier time where we completely misunderstood our relationship to each other or the land right right yeah it's interesting because I can remember even a

few years ago in ads for companies like REI or Patagonia, all these outdoors brands, it was all white people. And now they've slowly started to kind of realize that it's an issue. And you see more people of color in those ads, which gives me a lot of hope. I mean, I remember the first time I saw a South Asian person in one of those ads and it was great. I was like, well, another one. But yeah, so it's changing. But if we go way back and we think about this idea of nature in general, we think about the white settlers that came to what is now the United

States and how they really just tore apart the lifestyle of indigenous peoples who lived on the land before then. They thought of land as something that needed to be protected, preserved, something that you live in harmony with rather than exploit in this very capitalist settler mindset that eventually became the norm. And when settlers came, they introduced this idea of an untouched wilderness, you know, just trees and forests and rivers, somewhere where nobody lived. And if we dig a little deeper into that idea, you just see that that's not true, because there are people who live with the land um and they they live on it but it's still you know it's still respected um and a proponent of this idea was john muir who's a very famous environmentalist i'm sure everyone's heard his name um sierra club yeah yep and he said that

this land should be set aside for recreation to fulfill an emotional need for wild places which i thought was just an absolutely ridiculous statement because there were so many people especially indigenous peoples who were kicked off that land and like what about their emotional needs and what about their emotional fulfillment um so yeah yeah that his like his him constantly like romanticizing like the wild lands that were basically free of indigenous people, you know, really opened the door for this kind of like exclusionary thinking. And like who gets to enjoy the environment, like would always juxtapose like the beauty of the landscapes. But these dirty faced, half happy, you know, like just all kinds of like terrible derogatory statements about indigenous people, black people. And he always would say, like, he's a quote that these indigenous people, quote, seem to have no right place in the landscape, which we saw that kind of like extend to like of like, especially like in colonial Africa, as like game reserves are opened up the same idea of like, oh, people have lived here for centuries. Now, I don't know. This is a theme park for white tourists like the Maasai people were just kicked out of certain places. Like there's a lot of history of just like the same thinking of like, hi, nature, nobody

should be here unless it's us just looking at it to just take a load off. And that's also like so reactionary. Like, I agree with what y'all are both saying. And I think John Muir is such a good example because he is he and his way are romanticized in our society because he like he was like thinking about solutions. Right. Like there was a problem and he's like, oh, a solution is to do this but i i get frustrated when like i feel like no one talks about the problem he was trying to find a solution for right the problem was that like white men on this continent like decimated all of nature and then at some point we're like oh oh shoot like like we like if we don't stop and like preserve a little bit, we're going to have none left. I have an idea. Like what if we asked John Muir to like create national parks for us? Like so, yeah, that was a solution. It one harmed people, you know, to it didn't like work the

way we wanted it to. It was completely unfair, unjust and inequitable. But also like. It was completely unfair, unjust and inequitable. But also like a like a better thing to do would be to like have like not done all of that, like development of the land and. Right. Like Teddy Roosevelt was like, we need national parks. Teddy Roosevelt like killed countless animals. Like we cannot count how many wild animals he killed across the world. He killed so many animals like for fun, for sport, not to eat them. Right. Right. And then he's the same person being like, hey, like let's do a national park thing. Like that's being environmentally friendly.

Like, what? Like, these people were hypocrites. And it is very unpopular in my line of work to call that out. So I appreciate y'all doing it. I appreciate y'all like trying to really reimagine how we talk about environmental history, especially from the American perspective. But, you know, just in general, like our society and like the environmental movement does not largely accept that these people were problematic. Yeah, which is wild, because I remember at the time people were defending. I remember, you know, the head of the Sierra Club in the summer of 2020 was sort of like, hey,

if we're going to talk about Fort Bragg and these confederates and like renaming stuff we should really look at people like john muir and things like that and a lot of people like we can't be applying these purity tests or trying to say look well look at all the good that he did sure but to then like ignore that and also say that like the way the like the early conservation movement was even looking at like what people's relationship was to the land kind of put us put a lot of terrible momentum behind like this ideology now is obviously worth like examining does that like tense like so what's as it stands right is that tension still exists between conservationists where some people

are like we just got to keep this nice and that's it. Just conserve that versus people like, oh, we're completely ignoring the heaviest part of this conversation. It's a mess. It's a mess. And I don't want anyone to think that like it's doom and gloom and there's no reason to have hope. Like that's not it. But basically the model of conservation, like to Tricia's point, has always been a neocolonial white supremacist patriarchal model. Always. Like we don't have a new one that is like globally accepted. And so I would say like these days there are enough like revolutionary radical thinkers in the conservation movement that are like helping to

like reject these ideas but in general like conservation is still a neo-colonial force like both within and outside of this country and i'll just like add in a little science tidbit right like instead of the like social stuff like one of the main science tidbits that is also super challenging is that the majority of wild animals and in particular, like large carnivores, like I study, like the big ferocious, like toothy ones, live outside of protected areas. Like most of them, like almost all of them. So it's like many of them live in a protected area. Like if you go to Yellowstone, you're going to see some bears and that is cool. but most bears live outside of yellowstone and outside of yosemite and outside of these places

in places that are not protected areas that are just like regular spots yeah yeah like i feel like yeah and so it's like obviously the protected area system hasn't been a good model for many many social reasons but also for like actual scientific reasons it's not like hitting it like these animals like they're not like fenced yeah these animals aren't like oh like i just stepped outside my boundary like let me pull up a map and make sure i get a reroute like conservation yeah it's like it's like largely not working. And yet, like protected areas have popped up all over the world because a few of these men, like from 120 years ago, thought like, you know, didn't think twice and just like went for it. And to Miles, your point about like there was a reckoning with the, you know, white supremacist John Muir and um you know his role in founding the um sierra club so i just went to yosemite with uh my family and it felt like we had traveled to like a monument

to john muir like all the parks and trails had signs quoting his wisdom and there were you know stories about him coming to the land for the first time like he had just discovered it you know yeah yeah right um he looks like a confederate general uh and it's you know you can't decouple like his white supremacist viewpoint from all of that and the the work that he's deified for is it involves ignoring or outright being hostile towards you know the people who were already there yeah do they have his quotes about how he spoke about black people in georgia when he first encountered them they didn't i don't think they have that how well trained they they were, as he put it. Yeah. Like, that's the funny thing is like, you know, we have this way of being like, but all this other good stuff, but all this other good stuff.

And that's true. That's true, too. And so is this. Yeah. And you have to reckon with all of that. And you have to say how influential this person was and how much like even when they say like well he never like actually supported some of these other racists that like hung on to every word he said it's like yeah but he never actually denounced it either and that and that and that creates the space for other people to be like

well maybe and he knew that creating protected areas was destroying communities and like you know whether it was like direct or indirectly killing people like literally like like ruining people's lives it was people of color so it was like that's right it's okay yeah well the very first like public park it wasn't officially yosemite yet because it was way back when but it was where yosemite is now and that park was created by literally just slaughtering hundreds of indigenous people um to like have that as a space of enjoyment and like hey what could be more american yeah like on this place where you ignore like you're having a good time willfully ignore how this space came about and go on with your day good day and and like and let me add because and this is like complicated for me

as someone who like holds a belief system but still has to like work within the confines of like the system that my job is but like like indigenous people still exist like like they existed in abundance in the past but like they still exist in abundance and so like it's not like they were slaughtered and died and now we have these national parks like like folks deserve to have their land back you know like they're asking for it they're demanding it like it goes without saying it is deserved and so so, you know, someone like me, I often struggle with feeling so hypocritical because I work in protected areas, right? Like I like study large carnivores in protected areas while holding the view that like, if I had any power here, I would give the

land back. Like, it doesn't make sense to me to like be ringing the bell of like, yay, we're doing better. We're creating conservation solutions. We have more animals when like people and communities are still obstructed from, from, from engaging in and stewarding their land the way that they want to. I have a good feeling that like a lot of indigenous communities would choose to like do wonderful quote unquote conservation work. They probably wouldn't call it conservation, but just like conservation-ish work on these landscapes. But even if they didn't want to do that, they should be able to do whatever they want. Yeah. And it's really like a tension that I have within myself where I'm like, OK, you know, sometimes I try to give myself a break and, this is the best I can do is like do my job within the confines of the structure. But land back in America,

at least is like something that like, I think the people who believe in it don't necessarily have the power to make it come true. And that's really, really frustrating because there are people out there who have the power. And land back is quite literally like anathema like it's the antithesis of manifest destiny it's like what land back right uh no we got here being like god told me i could have this and now you're saying take backs no no no no no no like i feel like that like people feel like that's like unfair you know i have to say i do a lot of work in, like, parts of, like, rural, the rural American West, which is always an adventure. Yes. I'll use like some cattle ranchers as an example who are really kind of grappling with the fact that like it's an uncertain future in cattle ranching. Right. Like just because of the economy and society and just the market, like it's just not it used to be super profitable and it's not that guarantee isn't still there.

And so a lot of folks are kind of like, oh, should our family continue to cattle ranch? Should we like sell our land? And I just like sit around there being like, wow, wow. Like a lot of people still consider this to be their land because their great, great granddaddy, you know, took it. Right, exactly. But like, I don't see people having conversations about like the equitable choice here. Right, which I'd imagine there's a scientific argument

for all of that, you know? Like I can't imagine science should argue against it. Like, no, no, no, they're good custodians of that land and we shouldn't- No, yeah, there is a scientific argument. I mean, worldwide, globally, one thing that we know and that we have been able to prove as scientists is that poverty and environmental

wellness are directly linked to each other. So we cannot necessarily achieve like a healthy environment without alleviating or eliminating poverty. And we can't alleviate or eliminate poverty without creating a healthy functioning environment and healthy ecosystems. And so land back is a really good argument for alleviating poverty in many places, which thus helps the environment be healthier and stronger and more resilient. And yet it's like, it's just like easy, you know, it's hard to break out of these molds at which we've been taught and to really decolonize this whole perspective and approach to conservation. But really, like when communities of people are healthy and well, the environment is more likely to be healthy and well and vice versa.

Right. Yeah. All right. Let's take a quick break. We'll come back and we'll keep talking about this. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series, Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church.

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revolutionary underground. Identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore. The story of one strange and violent summer. This is Rip Current, available now with new episodes every Thursday. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and we're back and just what you were talking about right before we went to break reminded me of have you guys watched the new bad bunny video that is about puerto rico And it's like, it has a 15, 20 minute documentary attached to the end, but it's all about people. Just the exact same thing. You just run into this logic over and over again of like people live here.

And then the forces of capitalism come through and just on the basis of, you know, profitability, just kick people off their land and it's like i feel like we must be coming to a a breaking point with that logic being just the thing that everybody accepts as a reality but it does seem to still hold sway so in so many different places that it profitability and you know well i have this i, uh, rate of sale from 200 years ago or whatever the people that people are using on their, uh, giant cattle ranches. But there has to be a way to, to break through that. It feels like, and it does feel like that there's energy there.

I just don't, I don't know what the, what the actual means of doing it are. Um, but Tricia, you, sorry, you were going to say something completely different before I started talking about bad bunny. It's actually kind of related though, because yes, there is this idea of, you know, how far can capitalism go in exploiting land and exploiting people, etc. And just one thing I wanted to ask you about, Dr. Ray, also pertaining to the previous conversation was, I think often this, this, like, how to say it, I guess this exploitation of land or like taking land from the people who live there, specifically indigenous people and local communities, can be masqueraded as like environmental conservation. And so one thing I was reading about is this movement called 30 by 30, which is essentially a movement

that strives to designate 30% of the Earth's land as protected by the year 2030. And I found this really interesting because a lot of the land that people are trying to designate as protected are in the global South. And, you know, a lot of Indigenous people do live there currently. And so we talk about this problem of land being taken away from Indigenous peoples through Manifest Destiny here in the United States. And it still is very much a problem, both in the U.S. and abroad. And it seems that there's kind of this dilemma where well-intentioned people want to protect nature. But by implementing these rules, they often just undermine like the cultural traditions

and values and livelihoods of the people that currently live there. I remember I took a class on Indigenous Peoples' Rights in college. And one thing they talked about was that certain groups, I think like they hunt a lion once a year and there's all these conservation groups that say lions are endangered. You're not allowed to hunt them. But this is a tradition that's very much embedded in these communities that have

been going on forever. And if they had been the ones making the rules in the first place, like we would have had a lot more lines than we do now. Similar to surveillance. It's like, you know, surveilling land with drones to make sure that people aren't breaking these environmental rules, but that can be so harmful to these communities. So I'm just wondering your take on this, like any potential solutions, how do we avoid this being another form of neocolonialism yeah trisha you know easy question um but no i appreciate you she's like can i answer the one about jurassic park can we talk about twitter again bad funny no i appreciate it like a lot of people do not necessarily think about the role of incarceration and law enforcement when it comes

to conservation right and so like i will not derail us to talk about poaching or illegal hunting is another way to call it but like the incarceration rates of like men of color for killing wild animals, like, is very, very high. And it is a huge, huge problem. And it is not keeping wild animals from going extinct, right? Like, locking up more, you know, we'll say, like, Black African men is not, like, keeping the elephants around, right? And yet, like, every day we are incarcerating more and more people for using natural resources, you know, that used to be available. So that is actually a whole like project that I'm beginning in my scholarship and bringing students into to kind of use like environmental science and data science to construct like a, you know, liberation argument. So anyway, like, I can't tell I have like some super radical views here. But for 30 by 30, I do want to like, you know, like suggest a positive spin on it. And so you articulated it really well. The 30 by 30 is a small tagline, but essentially the goal is to preserve 30% of nature or the wilderness or the landscapes by 2030. And it largely has to do with climate change mitigation. It's like,

if we are going to have a planet in a hundred years, like we actually need to like stop development on like a large part of the land. And 30 by 30 is also supposed to be replicated in the ocean, right? Like at least 30% of the ocean needs to be protected, right? From like any kind of development or human influence by 2030. Otherwise, we're going to have a rough future ahead of us. And when you ask for solutions, I think a really good one, and I've like contributed some of my knowledge to America's 30 by 30 initiative, is to have like what we call like mixed use landscapes, right? Like landscapes where like people live, there is like economic prosperity, but we are not being destructive on that land and we are not like doing harm to the land by using it. And if we can make sure that especially communities like have economic mobility on those landscapes in an environmentally friendly way, then I think we will hit some

win-win solutions there. So we can't do, we can't make 30 by 30, just like, you know, more protected areas, like in the same model, you know, but if we can consider like urban green spaces, a part of that 30%, if we can consider, you know, like little stretches on the side of the highway, you know, a part of that 30%. If we can consider, you know, area, you know, even farmland can be part of that 30% as long as you're not like spraying pesticides and, you know, like planting like non-native, you know, plants or grasses, like why not? You know, as long as you would allow some birds, you know, to land, like that could be it. So there are some creative ways. And I think in particular, like some community led ways, like allowing communities to decide, like, what is a healthy way to use this land could be a really

great way that we can meet those goals. You know, with that said, it's almost 2023. So we definitely need to empower like like thought leaders who lead with equity and justice, like to be the decision makers here. But, you know, I do know some people, some awesome, dope, open minded, like radical people of color who are part of these initiatives. And I have a lot of hope that that we can make it work right and it just and it seems like so much of it too is like when just thinking of john muir like just his initial idea of like save all this coordinate off there's people there get them the fuck out because we have to keep this pristine like that flawed just overly simplified way of thinking it just echoes echoes constantly in so many ways of basically not necessarily that specific way, but to say, we can't consider the people that live on the land. That's just not even a thought that enters.

It's just that you're actually in the way. idea of not considering like the totality of like what the human experience is as it relates to things i think has existed like i was reading about how that the people who wrote that like population bomb book had to come around and be like we were so fucking wrong it was racist yeah like this was nonsense like we just came up with fucking very murian thinking or whatever they were basically like they're basically like it's overpopulation in the global south that's the problem with this planet not all the over consumption and the elites right irresponsible resource use from like western countries like we're good because we only have one or two kids even though we destroy the entire earth but like these people with large families that like

use they want resources they would say like they want these families and then they came around they're like yeah so we were all wrong about that the way towards that is about like having access to like abortion like like racial equity gender equality those are actually the things that we need to have to to like to survive and it's funny how the like ignoring those things uh like it's always happening at our own peril just for people to come back like you know good for them that they were like okay that we've got was totally fucked up we left so much shit out to ignore that fucking take but so many conservationists still kind of have this idea of like the populace it's too much we gotta do something about this while completely ignoring the equality dimension of it and and understanding

like the aspects of hegemony equal oppression things like that and without acknowledging like how we got to this place of having so many environmental needs like that was driven entirely by like white male dominance white supremacist patriarchy got us to this place of trouble like you cannot like you cannot create any other argument and yet these people are like put the blame everywhere else because we can't accept that like those people that were here before yeah yeah the hunting that they've been doing for centuries is the problem not when we caught wind of some other resources yeah they're killing they're killing a one lion a year like man we can't do that anymore because we won't have any lions left it's like all the lions y'all killed during colonialism like hundreds of thousands of them that was that was different somehow yeah like that their one lion a year

argument is like when they're like you guys got to use these different light bulbs you're burning down the fucking earth it's like well that's not really the case here you're trying to put it on me about all this other fuckery that's going on but yeah the onus on the individual which kind of brings me back to what i was saying about recycling, y'all. Right. It's like there is a system out there that needs to be changed. And like, please recycle, like keep it up. But like whether or not you are an active in recycling is not as important about as whether or not like these corporate machines can be redirected to stop harming the environment like in full force. Yeah. Yeah. I really liked what you said, Dr. Ray, about like, you know, green spaces outside of just a national park or a completely protected place. Like just thinking about all the community gardens in New York,

like the little gardens on the block or the little parks. And I was just thinking that that, gardens on the block or the little parks. And I was just thinking that, that, you know, if we designate that as nature too, it's an opportunity for people of color, communities of color to feel connected to nature without going on some big trip to Yosemite or Acadia. A lot of people can't afford. Right. I feel like the, just the John Muir quotes, just going back to him, treat nature like, like he's describing it like a pharmaceutical ad for some psych med. Like it's all about how it makes you feel. And it's almost still in that consumption. Yeah, you consume this landscape.

But that also puts it back to him to be in a position of power to design the landscape in a way that is, you help our bodies, minds and spirits instead of like we're a part of nature. Like we should offer respect to this planet that like was here before humans were, you know. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I read that there's still so many things in national parks that make them unfriendly and unwelcoming to visitors of color. First of all, 95% of the visitors to national parks are white, which is like totally disproportionate to the actual demographics of the country. But then there's also just smaller things like the uniforms of park rangers can be changed because now they look like police uniforms in a lot of places. Yeah. And that's not very welcoming to people. And there is also a lot of policing that happens

in national parks, like like they have like warden, like game wardens and stuff like they are law enforcement. Right. And there are you know, there's been some cover ups in the last few years, but there have been like been like you know shootings of unarmed like men of color in national parks and protected areas um just like some of the issues we have with the police yeah yeah yeah and it makes me think too of um christian cooper who is the bird watcher in central park um who is kind of like attacked by this white lady for no reason. I mean, he was just watching birds. And there's actually studies as well, or surveys that show that white people are uncomfortable with people of color sharing

natural space with them, which is like, yeah, how racist do you have to be to admit that to a survey even? Right. It kind of goes back to like Miles was saying about camping. Growing up, it was like, oh, I can't go camping with my family. I didn't even do Boy Scouts because I honestly, in my mind, I was like, that's not a thing. I've never seen somebody who looks like me do that. Not a thing. But also, you could imagine that maybe we don't't vocalize it but it can feel very unsafe like like black like i'm black so i will speak

from a black experience like black folks are unsafe like at the grocery store like we are not safe like in regular places in the urban suburban you know like don't let it be rural, you know, environment. So let alone like under the cover of darkness in like a remote place, like our physical safety, like it's not worth it to go camping if you don't come back, you know, like it's just, it's just not. And so considering we're still working to like remain safe, just living our regular lives like it can feel like a huge risk. You'd be like, I'll go ahead and have like a lot of stress and high blood pressure and not get that benefit from nature because like it's better than being dead. Not to say that like the outdoors is dangerous, but America hasn't proven to us that it's not. Or that we're welcome, right? Or that

we're welcome. I mean, like Ahmaud Arbery, right, was shot and killed two years ago while like going for a jog, like adjacent to a park. You know what I mean? Like, like just for existing as a black person, racist people shot him to death. Like, you know, we get feedback, we get examples of how to death. Like, you know, we get feedback, we get examples of how we are unwelcome or it is not safe for us to be in these places. You know, in order to disrupt that, I try to use myself and the people I know. And there are like some really great groups out there that create like safe experiences for people of color in the outdoors that break down those stereotypes that, you know, really try to prove that we belong, you know, like it, it can be a wonderful experience. You know, I camp for a living, you know, like to find the

animals that I'm looking for and that I'm studying, like I pitch a tent and I camp often by myself. I am happy to say that there have been places that I thought I was going to be in danger or have a horrible experience. And I literally never have. Like the horrible racist experiences that I have are like in towns, you know, not in academia, not in the outdoors, in academia, in my institutions, like, you know, in the cattle ranching towns too, though, but you know, like not when I am pitching my tent. And so like, I am here to say, I understand the perceptions because they're rooted in reality. And also I hope to serve as one of many examples that like the outdoors can be a wonderful, beautiful place, you know, to find joy and to find inspiration and passion.

And, you know, there are so many awesome groups out there like really trying to, you know, reimagine what equitable, inclusive outdoors looks like. Well, I think that's a great place to close. We're so grateful that you came and guested on our show, Dr. Ray. Yeah. Where can people find you and follow you and learn more about what you're doing? Oh, so I, you know, I, I'm a millennial. So, you know, we invented social media. I try to have a little presence there. You can find me on, you know, all the social media channels at Raewyn Grant. And in particular, my really amazing, I'm not just tooting my own horn. It's an amazing podcast that I have with PPS Nature. It is so good. Season two drops September 27th. It is phenomenal. It features a lot of my own stories from my crazy life in the wilderness, but also stories from some of my colleagues that I

hand selected, some of the best wildlife ecologists from around the world. They may or may not all happen to be people of color, get to know them. They are going to share some of their wildest experiences. So Going Wild on PBS Nature, wherever you get your podcasts, all the platforms has it. September 27th, join us. Amazing. And is there a tweet or some other work of social media you've been enjoying? Oh, yeah. No, I did think of a good tweet. And I don't know what the rules are about promoting brands. But if you take to Twitter, you might see that the company Patagonia has been trending. And that's because that brand that makes, you know,

outdoor gear and clothes and stuff has recently done something pretty radical by essentially no longer being a for-profit company where profits go to people, but now the for-profit, the profits from the company go directly to the planet, in particular to communities and groups that are fighting for indigenous rights to the environment and some climate change solutions. It is dope. Very cool. Trisha, thank you. Amazon will do that next, right?

Oh, yeah. They're on track. They're on track. Trisha, where can people find you, follow you, and is there a work of social media you've been enjoying? Yeah. So actually, I'm not sure if I'm Gen Z or millennial. I think I'm technically Gen Z. I think you're Gen Z, yeah. Yeah. So actually I'm not sure if I'm Gen Z or millennial. I think I'm technically Gen Z. Yeah. So you don't have social media. So yeah. I was going to say, if you have to ask,

that means you're Gen Z. Okay. So I don't have social media. You can listen to more stories similar to the topics you've heard me talk about on TDC. On my podcast, People Place Power, it's about activism around the world. And yes, I don't use Twitter much, but I just opened it. That's why you're so happy, Trisha. That's why you're so happy. It's because you don't use Twitter. I found a video that contributes to happiness as well. And it's a video of a dog holding a bunch of carrots.

And they're hanging. Yes. And there's all these rabbits and like a little pig eating it. Eating the carrots from the dog. So it's a happy, natural video of communal love. Oh my God. Obsessed. I love how calm the dog is too.

Like the dog knows it's feeding the rabbits. Like, and some rabbits are eating the greens of the carrots. Some are eating the carrots. Yeah. I saw that too. It warmed, warmed my heart.

And the little pig that's in there too. It's like, he doesn't even know he's different from the bunnies. Yeah. Check it out. He doesn't even know he's different from the bunnies. Yeah. Check it out. He doesn't even know he's different from the bunnies. I love that. Identity doesn't matter.

Yeah, I know that take. They don't even care. The sunny, unruined disposition of someone who doesn't have Twitter. Yeah. He doesn't know he's different. Long may it last. Miles, where can people find you with the tweet you've been enjoying? Find me on Twitter and Instagram at Miles of Gray.

If you want to hear Jack and I talk basketball, check out our basketball podcast, Miles and Jack Got Mad Boosties. And then also, if you want to hear me talk about my favorite reality show, 90 Day Fiance, check out my other podcast, 420 Day Fiance. Yeah, read between the lines. Let's see some tweets that I like. The first one is from at perfect sweeties. And it says, I've been taking some notes and there's a Venn diagram that's British people and ants on the left side of the Venn diagram that doesn't overlap for British people. It says beans on toast on the right side where it says ants that doesn't overlap. it says can lift up

to 5 000 times their own weight then in the middle of their overlap the venn diagram reads weird loyalty to their queen innate instinct to line up single file and travel in a queue takes things that aren't theirs back to their colony love for crumbly pastries damn that is got him uh love that one and then the last one is from at tell muddick m-e-d-i-c tweeted the first time i heard of the go mad gallon of milk a day diet i laughed my ass off there's no way i'm halving my milk intake for a diet i had that one too so absurd you can find me on twitter at jack underscore o'brien and at miles and jack I'm at boosties tweet I enjoyed

no we now he sings actually is how you're going to pronounce that no we now no we sobs tweeted unemployed guy at 2 p.m. man the group chats been silent and then Rose at sleepless in Kentucky tweeted this man poured me three shots thinking I was going to get horny sir I'm about to start freestyling.

That's a real response. Do not put the shook ones instrumental. You can find us on Twitter at Daily Zeitgeist. We're at The Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram. We have a Facebook fan page and a website, dailyzeitgeist.com, where we post our episodes and our footnotes. Footnotes. We link off to the information that we talked about in today's episode, as well as a song that we think you might enjoy.

Hey, Miles, what song do we think people might enjoy? There's a new Tame Impala and Gorillaz song out that I was like, what? I haven't heard Kevin Parker's voice in a little bit. It's called New Gold. I think it's technically a Gorillaz song featuring Tame Impala. But look, whatever band you like, pretend it's's their track but they're all both on it so here's new gold gorillas tame impala check it out all right well the daily zeitgeist is a production of iheart radio for more podcasts from iheart radio visit the iheart radio app apple podcast

or wherever you listen your favorite shows that is going to do it for us this morning we are back this afternoon to tell you what's trending and And we'll talk to you all then. Bye. Bye. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed.

Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and Shekinah Church. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is season 4 of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry, Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry,

Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. I'm Keri Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game.

Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's basketball. And on this new season, we'll cover all things sports and culture. Listen to Naked Sports on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio apps, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by Diet Coke.