The Daily Zeitgeist - Rise of the NBA with Pete Croatto

Episode Date: September 8, 2022

Miles and Jack were honored to be joined by NBA Historian and author Pete Croatto for this week's episode. No better guest to have join the conversation during the league's Best of NBA Week!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm Keri Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry.

Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. I'm Keri Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Caitlin Clark vs. Angel Reese. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's basketball.

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celebrate some of the great moments as we are joined by nba historian and author of from hang time to prime time pete croato i'm miles gray and i'm jack o'brien and this is excellent opener yeah yeah you like did you get the 24 reference and you jack bauer jack o'bauer in the building yeah there it is shouldn't know what a show hey speaking of what a show pete welcome to our show yes uh the best most informed nba podcast a pleasure to be here i didn't know i was suspected you know uh 24 i would have caught up on seasons like 3 through uh 35 right yeah that's when it gets really good you can tell that's when it really starts showing that they're

making it up as they go along um so i don't think the time's adding up exactly yeah it took him seven hours to go across town? Real soap opera writer's room vibes in some of the later seasons. But that's not what... I mean, we could... I mean, look, if we want... Do you want to just change this to a 24? A 24 show?

Yeah, why not? I mean, episode 24, all about the show 24. They never saw it coming. I can help you out for the first two seasons, and then that's it. I just... You got out at the first two seasons and then that's it i i just you got out at the right time oh did i i mean i i it just got i mean from what i understand it got better and better and better you know but i don't know apparently i'm i'm i'm not hip to the scene so yeah yeah no real 24 heads feel like it was season one and two were the peak oh they're like yeah you know it also did it gave me an early

tip tip off when so the writers of that went on to write and like show run um home what was homeland yeah yeah that makes and i saw the second they brought someone back from the dead i was like oh this is they don't know what they're doing. This is just going to, like they're doing the same process where they write as they go along. Right. So anyways, thank you NBA for sponsoring our 24 podcast. So your book, man,

from hang time to prime time. So much fun. Thank you so much for sending a copy with a handwritten note class act. Yes. Oh, well, you know, it's funny the book has been out for two years and my my handwriting is has gotten like five percent

better so oh really that's better you honor yeah damn man i know i know i'm no i'm no longer writing them in my car while i drive so it's right it's marked improvement so no i'm happy i'm happy to that was uh but i think think, I think Jabari will set that up. Yeah. If I'm not mistaken. So yeah, you should thank Jabari. Super producer, Jabari. One of the greats.

But yeah, like, you know, the book is called, you know, the business entertainment and the birth of the modern day NBA. And I think when Jack and I were talking about this, I'm like, there's an interesting moment that I figured that is very instructive to the NBA as we know it today. Admittedly, I was saying earlier off mic, I was like, my consciousness begins in the Stern era of the NBA. So I knew as I was a kid, Showtime Lakers was like the biggest thing. I'm like five years old and going on. I had no idea what the road was to even the modern NBA. And you talk about this moment in 1978 where CBS was basically

planning to get rid of the NBA. And I'm just curious if you can just kind of lay the sort of foundation, because I think it's a really interesting moment and one that we don't realize how, you know, this sport could have gone from like an afterthought to one of the most popular things. I came so close to wearing golf spikes everywhere instead of Jordan's. You still wear that weird hat with like the little fuzzy bowl thing on top. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Kohl's would have been like the,

you know, like our foot lockers and our NBA store. Yeah, no, I mean that, look, I'm the same way. Like I started getting the NBA like in 1990,

1991, like when Jordan was like just getting into his, his peak as a champion, and the myth was really starting to percolate. So I was like you, Miles. I had no... As a kid, being 13, 14, it's like, oh, this is how it's always been.

And yeah, the NBA was nobody's first choice. And with CBS, CBS was legitimately on the brink of getting rid of the nba because there was a new president frank smith who took over and he didn't want anything to do with the nba he felt it was a ratings killer it felt he felt there was no traction there so he had he had uh he was talking with his uh lieutenant uh neil pilson who later became the

president of cbs sports saying that you I, you know, we got it. You know, I know there's a handshake agreement with with Larry O'Brien, but we got to get rid of this. It's it's it's it's holding us down. It's it's not doing anything because, again, CBS Sports at that time had just about everything. You know, it's like the late 80s. It had basically every major sport. So Smith gives the bad news and, you know o'brien is just crestfallen and doesn't understand what's happening it's he's a gap because he was told that this was the deal

was in place so stern goes to neil pilsen says neil can you talk outside for a minute so stern and pilsen go outside and then david stern just proceeds to just simultaneously chastise and beg Neil Pilsen to put the NBA back on schedule. Because Stern knew that without a big three network deal, without that distribution of games, the NBA was sunk. So Stern basically just got in Pilsen's face and was begging him, like, please, we have a deal. You're going to hurt me. You're going to hurt Larry. Just don't do this. So eventually, Pilsen and Stern go back into the office.

And miraculously, Pilsen was able to convince Frank Smith to say, Made up name, by the way. It does sound like a made up name. Frank Smith? Yeah, Frank Smith. Now you're making that up. What's the guy's real name? It does sound. I could be wrong because it's real name? Yeah, it does sound.

I could be wrong because it's been two years since the book came out. I think you're right. Yeah. So, Pilsen says, look, we already have the deal. It's going to cost us money to lose the NBA. Let's just ride it out and we'll go for it. And that's how the NBA was able to stay on by like a breath. And that just shows you how close the NBA was just being an afterthought in America's sports life, which seems bizarre.

Right. Considering we're entering a season where it's going to do pregame shows that would give people context. Yes. Prior to that, you just turn on your TV and the game starts. And there's people just spouting off names you don't really understand. Just last names, too. Right. spouting off names you don't understand and right yeah which reminded me of so you know when you're watching espn and suddenly like a x games event starts and they're just spouting on and like

aren't really explaining anything and you're like oh that was a half pipe zero 90s 720 That's wild. Niner. Yeah, exactly. Did I catch a niner in there? Yeah. I love that, though. Tommy boy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, that's the thing. You know, a lot of the things we take for granted, especially with TV and presentation,

were birthed in the 70s and 80s. The pregame show, the halftime show. Right. You know, the fact that you have announcers that are actually giving depth to the game and providing, you know, insights the game and providing you know insights and not just you know oh there's a made basket by scott wedman from 15 feet right so so all these things that we just take for granted right now like not only did they not exist they didn't exist

for a number of years and they're only relatively recent inventions and that's the one thing with this book that i i think why it has a pretty good shelf life i hope knock on wood because you know i have uh expenses like everybody else but i but to me i think the reason for this book and why i think people maybe find some uh some use for it or or enjoy it is because it's a reminder of how things were and it's also a reminder that you know the game that there's that there are precedents and that they're easy to forget where we came from especially with sports because everything moves so quickly now yeah and it's and i think we we really get we really get an opportunity to say well how did this happen or what happened before or anything like that so it's it's so yeah i i think this book is um you know that's why i've been talking about this book for about two years now right one thing that blew my mind was the money for the broadcasting rights when you compare

the dollars can you just tell me it was like 88 million for the nba versus yeah just kind of so this was it was crazy yeah right so this is in what 1982 and they're like okay this this is what it's going to cost for you to broadcast the n on television. Yeah, and it also was considered a lousy deal. And I think, if I remember correctly from my research, it was either a minimal increase from the year before or it was the same contract that was repeated. That's how little credence the NBA had. Right.

And meanwhile, the NFL at that time, amongst all of its network partners, had like a billion-dollar deal. And now, you know, 88 million is nothing. So again, these are all relatively recent adjustments. I mean, even the NBA's foray into big time, prime time television, that only really started like 1990, 1991. So yeah, it's just when you think about where the NBA started and what it is now, I mean, it's really incredible.

By all accounts, the NBA really shouldn't be where it is now, I mean, it's really incredible. By all accounts, the NBA really shouldn't be where it is today. But it's just, you know, it's David Stern and a number of really hardworking employees and folks in television who made it happen. What are some of the wildest stories that you uncovered while kind of researching and interviewing for the book? Oh, man. I mean, I'm trying to think of one that didn't make the book. And there were a couple of off-the-record comments and a couple of... Anything illegal or anything? I wish. I tried. I mean, that's the goal. You try and find every nook and cranny and see what you can find.

I mean, the wildest story to me... Oh, boy. I'm trying to think if there's a wild story. I mean, Miles brought it up with with the with the neil pilson david stern anecdote that's something i never heard of and that's what just blows my mind that like a major executive is begging for television covers like begging to be to be put on the air that was a pretty good i'm trying to think i mean the one story that that i that comes to mind is with david stern Arlene Weltman, who was in the NBA offices for a number of years,

remembers that when David Stern would go on vacation, he would go on vacation, he'd come back, and he would have legal pads just crammed with notes with ideas for the league. He never stopped. It's just, yeah, there's just all these little nuggets that came out

in the reporting. In terms of Wilde, you know, it's funny, I'll just all these little just nuggets that came out in the reporting and in terms of wild you know it's funny i'm gonna i'll probably at one point we'll review the notes and i'll find like five things i wish i put in but like what's in the book i think is pretty reflective of what i was able to find but the thing that sticks out the most with the nba is that it really was like a mom and pop store for so many years and it was just like okay like you want a job great you have a job like it was that easy what do you do kid i write ad copy perfect welcome aboard with with mba that's what it was like it was it was like oh like you were you were an intern at cnn come on in like hey like you you like i remember there was one i mean more than a few people i talked to got the job through like a temp agency.

Like, that's crazy to me. Like, oh, you know, it's like the temp agency jobs now are like, oh, yeah, you get to work on, you know, you get to work on like an assembly line or work in an office, like in an office part. Yeah, data entry. Yeah, exactly. But here, like, oh, yeah, you want to be administrative assistant for the MBA. Like, that's how one of my sources, I think got her job was like temp agency great you have secretarial experience awesome work for the nba crazy all right well let's take a quick break uh to pick your brain even more because i have a few more questions i know jack and i have a few more questions

uh and we'll be right back after this with pete croato After this, with Pete Corrado. When you think of Mexican culture, you think of avocado, mariachi, delicious cuisine, and of course, lucha libre. It doesn't get more Mexican than this. Lucha libre is known globally because it is much more than just a sport and much more than just entertainment. Lucha libre is a type of storytelling. It's a dance. It's tradition. It's culture.

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people like the nba i don't know and these people like no no this is great you gotta watch it just give it a little more context people are gonna love it and what they believe is clearly borne out and what we're witnessing today absolutely do you think like that was something that was unique and because of it, like it's starting at a place that was felt a little tenuous or unpredictable helped kind of build into this just sort of like pillar of culture that we have now? That's a great question.

I absolutely think yes. I think, I think the fact that you had so many people that were passionate about the NBA and also that were, that were passionate about what, about David Stern's vision for what the NBA and also that were that were passionate about what about David Stern's vision for what the NBA could be, where it could just be this entertainment with interlocking properties, all working hand in hand to produce merchandise, television shows and a game stadium

entertainment. Yeah, there absolutely was that passion. And David Stern was the was the zealot of that. He was he was the preacher saying, hey, this is what I want to do. This is what we can do. Join along with me for this ride. And it wasn't just with employees. It was also with potential advertisers. that he was he was the preacher saying hey this is what i want to do this is what we can do going along with me for this ride and it wasn't just with employees it was also with there's also with potential advertisers where it's like hey you know i can't we can't do this about you guys and if if

you come with us like we will give you our best we'll work with you to the point you'll never want to leave but it's funny like the passion thing too i've seen that a couple times now with like with more with sports that are trying to, I guess, enter the mainstream. Esports is big on that, I think. You have a lot of people that are just passionate about that. Lacrosse, I think, is starting to kind of get those wheels turning. The WNBA, I think, is another example of that. But it's funny. With the NBA, that was the one thing talking to people. People loved him because he was so passionate, and he led by example. I mean, people people loved him because he was so passionate and he led by example i mean he was the guy that was just was first in last to leave and he lived breathed and ate mba and i think when

you have someone who's that inspired and is so willing to be a collaborator right and wants to foster a family atmosphere you're gonna you're gonna develop a very very loyal army and to this day there are people that love the man unabashedly. You cover mainly the 80s and 90s, like the rise from the point that we were just talking about where the announcers were like, a relatively smaller fellow

with a number 10 on his tank top, brings it up, doing a sort of bouncy thing with the ball. This Julius Irving fellow is leaping like a frog. Holy cow! Leaps in the air and does a neat little twirly thing with the ball and it... The Julius Irving fellow is leaping like a frog. Holy cow. Leaps in the air and does a neat little twirly thing with the ball. And it hot damn goes in the goes in the hoop.

He didn't even look at the man. He passed the ball to. But so you kind of take us up through the early 90s. But are there players from that era who you think would have benefited the most from social media where highlights are clipped and posted within a couple minutes and then also like where your personality can kind of shine through oh yeah i think to me it's julius irving i think i think julius irving would have been a complete marvel if you had social media and all the the distribution that we have today with the NBA and all professional sports. Because, again, it's funny as time goes on.

And I know if you guys have noticed this, but like when I was growing up, you heard, you know, Julius Irving was sort of talked about the way that I think kids talk about Michael Jordan now. And but when I was a kid, it was like, oh, you should have seen Elgin Baylor play. You should have seen Oscar Robertson play. When I was a kid, it was like, oh, you should have seen Elgin Baylor play. You should have seen Oscar Robertson play. And those guys always seemed like mythical figures that were kind of handed down from generation to generation. Like an oral tradition almost. Exactly.

Yeah. And Julius Irving is sort of entering that sphere now. And it's not so much because I think it's a couple reasons for that. I think aren't as readily there aren't as many highlights as jordan had i mean yeah julius didn't have like a thousand videotapes i know like six dr j plays but i have those memorized like perfectly the scoop dunk the uh under the basket like reverse shot like there are a handful that are you know i can recall them with photographic precision, but I don't know that much. Like, I've never watched a full game that he played in. Exactly.

I'm like, I knew he wore Converse and dunked. Yeah. Right. And he had a great mustache, like one of the all-time best mustaches. But yeah, I think with Julius, you know, now he's entering that phase where if you you talk to, I don't know, anybody maybe under the age of 30, and you mention Julius Irving, you might as well be talking about biblical character. It's like, oh, that it's oh. But so I think if you had the publicity machine and you had the coverage and you had social media, I think I think Julius think Julius Irving would be, would be even more of a, of an iconic figure than he is now.

But I think the sad part is, is that in, especially the ABA, like there are so many players now that we don't really, we don't really have any highlights of them are very few. Like David Thompson is a good example. You know, he was a guy that was Michael Jordan's hero.

And how many David Thompson highlights do you see? How many George Gervin highlights do you see? There aren't that many. But yeah, Julius to me is the guy that if he had today's publicity buttressing, he'd be amazing. Everyone would know who he is.

Already great at branding with the name Dr. J. Perfect. I don't know if he came up with that but he certainly used it well although i did look it up and he's not a real doctor so that might have hurt him because with internet fact checking yeah he's also he's like three credits short of his doctorate but we'll uh you know we'll we'll we'll let it slide we get it he had his attention split it happens to the best of us for sure i think yeah it's funny that even like when you bring up george gervin because when you say that like that reminds me of one of the first basketball

memories i had where my dad seemed like some time traveler where i remember one of the all-star games like the three-point contest george gervin comes out they're like george the ice man gervin and i'm like who's this dude who looks like grandpa my dad's like that's george gervin and i'm like, what? I don't see, is he in a Nike commercial? Because I don't know this man. But the combination of hearing my dad be like, wow, it's George Gervin.

And then obviously knowing that there was some deference paid at a three-point contest, I'm like, wow, the gaps that I have in my knowledge just because of where I am on the timeline are like, yeah yeah they do end up kind of you know we these people sort of vanish and it's wild to think that now because of the amount of like footage and content that there is about people that like we may be getting out of an era where you know people are going to be like devin george who is devin george i'm like he was a laker exactly they don't talk about him much because he didn't have all the highlights but he was a he was an integral part exactly it moves so quickly't talk about him much because he didn't have all the highlights, but he was a,

he was an integral part. Exactly. It moves so quickly now. And again, it's going to the point. I mean, the thing that shocks me is it was a few years ago. This may have been like five or six years ago.

The ringer ran a story about where they, they quiz players at the rookie game at the first year rookie about Michael Jordan. And nearly all of them knew him either from Space Jam or from the gear. Right. But you're right. But all these guys that are lesser known, they just fall through the cracks.

And again, I think it's just a byproduct of how fast things move now and how much stuff we're getting. And that's great. Look, I'm an NBA fan, and I'm never going to turn down more basketball. but the problem is that the the faster you go the quicker you leave the past behind and it's just it's unfortunately that's it's just it's a byproduct of of just how things are now which is yeah which is which is a bit sad yeah do you i mean we've talked before

about the idea that the league is progressive, like each successive generation of players is building their game on top of what they've seen previous generations do. What do you think about the direction the league is headed? Did you see the clips of Victor Wembingyama? I'm too old and I have too little time left to moan about how the game used to be played or like, oh, the, the, the purity of the game is being ruined. I don't believe in that because again, if you go back in history,

if you read any books, you know, dunking was once considered outrageous and was an outlaw act, you know, a, you know, a behind the back pass was considered sinful. So the game evolves.

And I think, to me, what I like to do, when I watch a game, I watch it for fun. I'm escaping into the drama and watching the abilities of men and women do things with a basketball that I can't imagine doing myself. I think it's important to break down the act itself and just be amazed by that. I think it's going to break down and just the act itself and just be amazed by that. Like, I don't understand people who are always, who just always complain about the way things used to be or, or, or, or get tied up in the game being played now. And because a, there are flaws and assets to each era of basketball. Every era of basketball has its good things. It is bad things, but it's also, you're also diminishing just what you're seeing. Like a guy joellen beach

should not be playing basketball the way he does yana shouldn't play basketball the way he does these guys are moving like guards and they're doing things outside with dribbling that are amazing and i think it's just to me i love the direction the game is going and there's always something to appreciate you know are there parts of the game that I don't like now? Yeah, of course. But if you had talked to me 15 years ago, 25 years ago, I would have told you the same thing. Yeah, it's interesting. That is something that

jumps out to you in your history. Just reading the people getting... Because your history does cover the introduction of the three-point shot. Yeah! People just being like, well, first it's the dunk shot, and now it's the dang three-pointer. What's next? It's witchcraft, I tell you.

Yeah. That was one of the charges in the Salem Witch Trial. Yes. Beating back passes with dunk shots. Yeah. Louis Dampier was part of the juror. Yeah. And that's the fun part about what makes the league so cool

is that it is progressive. It does change. And that's also how you get young fans. But the problem with the... There are two sides to that coin, if I can steal heat for the 15 millionth time, is that you recruit by changing and by evolving the way the NBA does

and basketball in general does. You garner new fans all the time, but you also isolate the old school fans. Because again, there's constant evolution and the folks that grew up with basketball in the 70s or 80s or 90s get more miffed while you recruit

to the kids of today. So, I don't know. To me, if you acknowledge the fact that evolution and change is part of the NBA's ethos, you can watch a game without losing your mind. Yeah. I know I can. I can't speak for everyone else listening. I mean, I can do it.

I think you have to spend a tremendous amount of energy to watch the game evolve and then be like, this is not for me. Really? Really? Yeah. How? Yeah. No way. I've been watching 30 years. I'm done. Yeah. How? Yeah. No way. I've been watching 30 years.

I'm done. Yeah. Like, oh, God. If I have to look at another seven plus gangly guy with a stroke sweeter than I don't know what, I'm going to lose it. I don't want to see stuff like that. Again, like when I was growing up in the 90s, like you never, I never, when I was watching, started watching basketball, you never saw that.

You never saw, I never saw Patrick doing jack a three. Maybe in desperation he would. Yeah. And it was like a meme if a center made a three. You're like, do you remember that one? Whoa! Yeah. It was like a top ten sports center play.

Right. And now it's just the fact that this is done and it's normal now. I think it's amazing. I'll never get tired of, of a seven foot five dude. Get hitting corner threes. I'll never tire of it. And again,

not to sound like a basketball apostle here, but the game, the game remains the same. It's still who has more points. It's still about passing the ball, playing defense, but the change is what makes it so interesting. Because again,

like what's the biggest criticism that baseball has that it's been the same forever it's they never do anything different it's you know and then when they do you know what happens the purists lose their minds like oh a runner on second base what jeez oh no that young man's hat is backwards during batting practice a bat flip what yeah yeah it's crazy and i again like it's you know i know for me i think being connected with the nba and watching it and talking about with folks like you it's keeps me young it keeps me involved it keeps me you know it's it's fun i i don't i don't i don't get people who just are... You can appreciate the good old days.

You can appreciate the 50s and 60s. But it's perfectly okay to just... You can also appreciate what's happening now. They're not mutually exclusive. Yeah. I think the only person who wouldn't like it is somehow threatened by the idea that the game's getting better. And in their mind, they're like, No, in my mind, I could have beat Charles Barkley one-on-one in jaw i don't know what i'm gonna what is this guy like you have to embrace it and enjoy it

because again that's the root that's like the reason why we watch sport is to again be inspired by these acts of athletic performance that we couldn't fathom to do in our own exactly it's about the new like it's about it's about seeing something you've never seen before and and john moran like that's another great example and again it's it's not as if big guys hitting threes always seems to be the the the point of emphasis that um that wags fall back to like oh they you know a seven foot one should be at the back but there's so many great smaller players. They get more athletic, they get better. The point guards are the people who I'm looking at

and being like, man, the league really is progressive because of how cool some of these new young point guards are. I mean, Wemba Yama, we mentioned Wemba Yama pretty offhandedly, and I think we've mentioned him once or twice before on the show. But for any listeners who don't know, he'll be draft eligible, I think, next year. And about four or five months ago, he was like 7'1", and now he's 7'5".

That's crazy. And you get to watch him get used to his body and just be so smooth with it in real time. There are highlights and game tapes where you watch it and it's like oh man he seems like a seven foot five guy and it's like oh that's because he just woke up seven foot five today right and now and then like three games later he looks it reminded me of when i would like play around on a small basket you know when i was playing in the league yeah but it reminded me of like you guys remember my career right oh yeah like when you would play

around on like a little like nerf basket when you're a kid and just like the joy of being like oh this is so much easier and this is so like could you imagine being this big like that looks like the fun he's having in his seven foot five frame yeah and that evolution again like you're saying like he started off you're like wow that baby deer looks a little wobbly on its legs and then you're like i think it turned into kevin durant yeah it's like two games yeah if you're an nba player at that height in like the 80s and 90s like yeah you're like oh what's george murshon doing yeah it works is that you're a bench presence and you just you just put your butt in the paint and you block shock you grab rebounds and the fact that the possibilities of

the game have expanded where a where someone that big what their skill set not just being relegated to a mark eaton type or george murshon that i mean that's incredible that's like what a 25 year art right i mean not that long I feel like if you were that tall not that long ago, your full-time job was just taking pictures next to phone booths for size

for like the Guinness Book of World Records. People were like, wow, hot damn, look at this. This fella's short pants are longer than

the tallest man's pants. When the team went to town, like the local reporter from the paper would come out there and just be like, we have someone who's seven foot seven, you know, they can't sleep in a regular bed. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. Sitting on a bed, sitting in a car. They can't shower. It's but it's again, like it's the NBA is. I don't know it to me, the storylines and all those things that come out of it. It's even if you don't like the game even if the game's like i had to stop for me right like seven foot five teenager yeah and that arc of of

him having to adjust to a grown man's league that's fascinating i mean that's a fascinating i mean that you can do you do like a whole you do a podcast based on that just on like you know his experiences what he's doing what he's learning it's you know that's yeah check us out miles jack and victor got mad i got my booty there you go uh let's take a quick break and we'll be right back to get into the rapid fire round of questions oh boy after this After this. generational conversation between Latinas from Gen X to Gen Z. We're covering everything from body image to representation in film and television. We even interview iconic Latinas like Puerto Rican actress Ana Ortiz. I felt in control of my own physical body and my own self.

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This is Lucha Libre Behind the Mask. Listen to Lucha Libre Behind the Mask as part of My Cultura Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you stream podcasts. And we're back. And I do have a correction to issue. I know usually podcasts wait for a week to issue corrections. Nah, we're honest here.

We're doing the live corrections because I was wrong. Apparently, Victor Wembignama is 7'2 on his latest chart. I saw 7'5 somewhere. I think I heard it quoted as 7'5, so I'm blaming that nameless. That's what we want. He stands like he is 7'5.

Let's be real. Yeah. He projects 7'5, but also he's a tall 7'2. Yeah. There is a lot of news that we're not going to get to because you're so fun to talk about the history of the league with. But, I mean, the Cavs got Mitchell. More importantly, Montrezl Harrell is landing in Philly.

I think that's the move everyone's talking about. You're very excited about that. I love that move. I love that move. I mean, again, this guy was like two years ago was he six man of the year or was he in the running for that and then he just fell off the planet

now he's back with Doc but that's all for future future episodes we'll see but we do have to make time for the fastest segment in podcasting yeah it is the miles and jack got mad boosties rapid fire to close it out rounds of questioning

um so yeah miles you want to you want to prep them i mean uh i mean what did i did i go first last time or did you go first on the questions yeah i'm trying oh i was just saying like prep them for how fast it's gonna be and how you're right golly i almost forgot get ready pete because this is the rapid fire round of questions this is the fastest segment now what we're gonna do is we will just posit a question to just react do not think do not give overly wordy answers because we want to just get through as many questions as possible do not tinker with the format please one thing we I should I shouldn't have had that

glass of wine five weeks ago here we go uh start the clock okay you go first or Michael what we have what happened last time did I go I think you went first last time but we we did Rock, Paper, Scissors. I think you keep beating me in Rock, Paper, Scissors. All right.

Then let's just go for the sake of expedience. Why don't you go first? Okay. Are you sure? I mean, unless you feel stronger, you want me to go. I just don't want to ruin the flow because you told him the directions. Yeah, yeah. All I know is that this is going to be like the Stargate

in 2001 where the lights are just flashing at me. I'm just going to hold back. So that just keep that keep that image in your mind or the image of a cowboy that just had something run by them really fast in a cartoon and their head is spinning around. Yeah. Start the clock. Start it.

We're asking all our guests for a few of their boldest, wildest, most ridiculously irresponsible predictions heading into the upcoming NBA season. What you got? My prediction, I think this is the last year for the Lakers as they're

constructed. I cannot see how this continues as it's being assembled. I don't know how Patrick Beverly fits into this. I don't know how Patrick Beverly fits into this. I don't know how Russell Westbrook becomes the number two guy, especially since he's getting older and isn't really much of a past first option. So that's my bulletproof. I think I don't like yours.

Don't make the playoffs. And it ends up for this year. It's a rebuild after this year. Still in a cartoon universe. Miles has steam shooting out of his ears. My hat blew off and spun into the air. Yeah. All right. You know blew off and spun into the air. Yeah. All right.

You know what? Maybe we should just stop. I'm so sorry. No, it's fine. It's fine. Whatever. Let's keep it going. Focus, Miles.

What are we underrating about the upcoming season? You know, I think there's a lot of rising stars, rising teams of focus goes somewhere. And then there's a lot of people in the shadows. They're like, hold on, don't forget about them. I'll tell you what, the Bucs. I think people are underrating the Bucs. I mean, look, last year, when they faced the Celtics,

they didn't have Chris Middleton. That's a huge part of their offense. Helps them spread the floor so that it isn't all in Giannis. I think that to me, I think a lot of people really aren't them spread the floor so that it isn't all on Giannis. I think that to me, I think a lot of people really aren't talking about the Bucs, and I think they're a team that I can see them making the finals again, and I think Giannis

is just one of those super relentless, super competitive dudes that always wants to get better, and I think this year, I like to think that they make the finals. Cool, and could we get one take where you talk about how we're underrating the Sixers? And just, I guess you could keep the Chris Middleton take, because the Sixers also didn't have Chris Middleton when they lost last year.

And replace Giannis with Embiid. No, I'm just kidding. So I think that's a great take. I'm curious about the Clippers. I think, I don't know i i think last year was a teams with solid chemistry sit pat bad year for the quote-unquote super teams i feel like we might be underrating what happens to these clippers when kawaii and ge George are back and healthy. Um, and just, I don't know,

three years ago, we were watching clips of Kawhi earlier this week. And, uh, it got me excited. You should man is a force. You know what, Jack,

you got to really stop that. I'm sorry. This is a really rapid fire segment. So we can't just kind of, you know, I was expecting, I was expecting like to have bullets on my head here. This is very like, This is almost leisurely.

Wait, hold on. This is going really fast. I don't know about you. This is actually our fastest rapid fire tech of all time. Hold on. Check the clock. Okay, next question. Pete, you cannot select Luka or Ja.

Let me get your best bet for MVP this year. Joel Embiid. I think Joel wins it. I think Joel wins it. I think Joel wins it this year. I like to think that the Harden-Maxie Embiid triad is going to work. I like to think that Harden is at the Oscar Robertson in Milwaukee

part of his career. We can be more of a playmaker and a third option on the offense. And Maxie is sort of the Bob Dandridge young legs, do-it-all kind of guy. And I just, I love Embiid. I love Embiid. He's probably my favorite player

because I'm sort of a closet Sixers fan. Wow. Yeah. So Joel, I think Joel wins the MVP this year. Amazing. I love this. I love how this segment is going. Yeah, do you? Miles. Why don't we just keep it going this is rapid fire man this is just you and me talking now because jabari and

miles have chosen to end the uh recording but well look the lakers the lakers still have the best uniforms in the nba and look i think leron is going to have another monster season. I just don't see how that team makes the playoffs. But look, I'm a moron in my basement wearing a $1 Kohl's shirt. So like, take my advice for whatever it's worth. So there you go, Miles. You guys look cute.

That's cool. What's that shirt you're wiping your tears off with? It's the Lakers jersey. Okay, speaking of predictions, what's more likely to happen? The New York Knicks make the playoffs, or the Nets

win the Eastern Conference? Nets win the Eastern Conference. Hold on. Sorry about that. Coach Tibb on the line. I'm not a starting forward for the Knicks. I got a three-year, $45 million contract. Nice.

No. I feel that with my soul. That's how confidently I'm saying that. All right. And final question. Yes. And this is important. Yeah. Jack or Mike? I'm Jack. And final question. And this is important.

Jack or Matt? I'm Jack. I know. We've been talking for an hour. I kind of know how it goes. Man, it's like asking me to choose if there's a fire, if I save my wife or my daughter. I can't answer that question.

I'll tell you what. Do I have a coin? Hold on. Wow, we Do I have a coin? Hold on. You know what? Here's what I'm going to do. Wow, we're going to a coin flip. In true rapid fire fashion. A long pause while he looks for a coin.

I have a pack of clear 91 basketball cards. Amazing. That's a wax pack, too. I can hear it. Yeah, yeah. So, let me get a player here. Okay. All right.

I have a Danny Ferry Cavs card. Okay. Come on, Danny. If it lands, picture up. Yeah. I have a Danny Ferry Cavs card. If it lands, picture up. I'm going to go with Miles. If it lands, stats, I go with that. So here we go. Face up. Yes! I knew that Pete had some

great insights. You know? I guess I need to get a jack hat. I mean, the I knew that Pete had some great insights. Uh-huh. You know? I guess I need to get a jack hat. I mean, the desperation of wearing a hat with your name on it when we're going to, I mean, come on, man. You know? I didn't even notice that. You ever, yeah.

Hold on. Yeah. Oh, okay. You didn't, you might not have realized you noticed it. It's all subtle. It's all subtle. But your answer clearly proved that you were brainwashed. It's called focus, and I'm focusing on being a good podcast host.

I'm focusing on the rapid fire, which was more like a leisurely stroll. I'm just being a good, committed guest. It sounds like your answer would be neither jack or miles uh based on that oh man well pete thank you so much for joining us uh from hang time to prime time check it out wherever you get your books uh where can people find you and follow you check you out and hear you whatever all that stuff yeah i mean twitter is pretty much where i hang out that's where that's where it's kind of my water cooler. And that's where I post

a lot of my articles and musings and stuff. So yeah, at Pete Croato, P-E-T-E-C-R-O-A two T's as in Thomas O, at Pete Croato. That's pretty much

where you can find everything. That's kind of my home base. I hope to have a website soon, but I've been saying that since like the late 90s. But until then, until then, at Pete Croato is the best bet. And yeah yeah the book is still available pretty much every major bookstore

online brick and mortar what have you so yeah amazing well thank you so much for joining us yes and that's been another episode of miles and jack got mad I'm Carrie Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports.

Listen to the making of a rivalry, Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. I'm Keri Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry, Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's basketball. And on this new season, we'll cover all things sports and culture. Listen to Naked Sports on

the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio apps, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by Diet Coke. Hey, fam, I'm Simone Boyce. I'm Danielle Robay. And we're the hosts of The Bright Side, the podcast from Hello Sunshine that's guaranteed to light up your day. Check out our recent episode with Latin Grammy winner, author, and TV personality, Chiquis, about raising her younger siblings after the death of her mother, singer Jenny Rivera. I would do it over and over again. All of that has molded me to become the woman that I am today. Like, I wouldn't change anything.

Listen to The Bright Side from Hello Sunshine on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.