The Daily Zeitgeist - Safety Is Relative, Jordan Holds Grudges? 5.12.20

Episode Date: May 12, 2020

In episode 628, Jack, Miles, and Jamie are joined by The Black List's Kate Hagen to discuss states re-opening, how coronavirus spreads, #Plandemic going viral, The Last Dance recaps, and more!FOOTNOTES: Coronavirus cases expanding in states preparing to reopen The Risks - Know Them - Avoid Them A 2nd wave of US virus cases will plunge the economy into a depression, Moody's economist says As '#Plandemic' goes viral, those targeted by discredited scientist's crusade warn of 'dangerous' claims Who is Judy Mikovits in ‘Plandemic,’ the coronavirus conspiracy video just banned from social media? Fact-checking ‘Plandemic’: A documentary full of false conspiracy theories about the coronavirus ESPN's Michael Jordan documentary: Big takeaways from Episodes 7 and 8 of 'The Last Dance' Craig Hodges: 'Jordan didn't speak out because he didn't know what to say' WATCH: Jurassic 5 - Swing Set Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hello, the internet, and welcome to Season 133, Episode 2 of Dirt Daily Zeitgeist, a production of iHeartRadio. This is a podcast where we take a deep dive into America's shared consciousness and say officially off the top, fuck the Koch brothers and fuck Fox News. It's Tuesday, May 12, 2020. My name is Jack O'Brien, a.k.a. He's Jack, and he's always down

to host a party with his kids and clowns. They say, Jack, can you watch Goofy now? He says, I guess, but inside he dies the zeitgang says jack hey you're a fine dad what a good uncle you could be and your jokes can steal attention from this disease that is courtesy of ben bainey And I'm thrilled to be joined, as always, by my co-host, Mr. Miles Gray!

Because it's COVID-19 Diddy's in quarantine And we're yearning for those hugs There's no hugging, things's no hugging. Things sucks. Billy Ocean, Caribbean queen. That is way back. If you want to know how old I am, thank you to Bundesliga social media intern on 16.5

at Fresh Frankie for that Billy Ocean inspired AK. Thank you so much. Love me some Billy Ocean. I'm thrilled to be joined by my other co-host, Jamie Lawson. Isaac used to work in the club. COVID came once. Now he's sad on his couch.

He's high. So high. Jamie works the podcast all day Zooming little Zen She brings home hot takes for Zai Oh for Zai She says Sonny stay home Or you'll get caught It doesn't make a difference if you're red-pilled or not

You've got the virus, now here's a mask and gloves I'll give you your shots Whoa, outside no more Whoa, live Living in the core Wash your hands And we'll make it indoors Whoa Living in the core

Living in the core That's from I think we all had to do that guitar. That is the most powerful a song has ever been in my head after one of these AKAs. I don't know if I want to compliment you or tell you to go fuck yourself. My heart rate is skyrocketing

according to my biometric meter. That's from at abstrusal or a username official dickhead. Really, really powerful stuff from official dickhead. Official dickhead. Official dickhead brought the heat today. I've been watching official dickhead

develop his AKA voice on Twitter. It's good to see him finally make the big leagues. You love to see it. You love to see it. We're thrilled to be joined in our fourth seat by the talented Kate Hagen. Hey, guys. Thanks for having me. I didn't know I was going to get serenaded first thing.

Very exciting. Always. Always. It's our favorite thing you do when they say, Kate, now you sing. Go. I'm not going to sing. If you've seen me do karaoke, you don't want to see me sing. It's not a pretty picture. Do you like karaoke, though?

I do, because... That's all that matters. Karaoke is all about attitude, not ability. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and it's a great time, and it's very freeing to be like, here's the thing I can't do, and I'm doing it. I mean, I think you just saw between Jack and I, that was clearly about attitude and not ability. Jamie has

ability. We're attitude singers. Jamie, the able singer, has actually done the national anthem at a sporting event. That's the mark I use. But what do you sing when you go to karaoke? That's how you learn about somebody. Yeah, it's I sing all sorts of stuff. I would say my sort

of staples are I like doing Addicted to Love. I like doing Criminal. I like doing 9 to 5, which is a doing Addicted to Love. I like doing Criminal. I like doing 9 to 5, which is a really hard song to sing. I don't like... Is it classics? Yeah, it's a good time. I can't do any of the songs

that require actual chops. I love Patsy Cline. I cannot sing a Patsy Cline song. Karaoke. I don't want to dishonor her memory. I mean, yeah. Criminal is all attitude. I got goosebumps just hearing it. I'm like, whoa. I don't want to dishonor her memory. I mean, yeah, criminal is all attitude. I got goosebumps just hearing.

I'm like, whoa, I've been a bad, bad girl. It's big Scorpio energy. You got to support Fiona. What is everyone's go-to karaoke? Montel, this is how we do it. Oh, okay. That's right. The first song, I always warm up my voice to that.

I let people know, look, this is what you can expect from me. Just some good Torch songs, R&B from the 90s. This is what I can bring to the table. Yeah. This is how. I'll add... I've never gone karaoke singing in my entire life. What?

I've never been karaoke singing. This is what I do. Jack, you got to do Invisible by Clay jack you gotta do invisible by clay aiken invisible by clay aiken i don't even know i feel like it's in your range you could do it oh my god that is i can't believe i'm just learning this about you that you had never been to like any kind of... It's my greatest shame. Nobody's ever asked. But you're so ready. You do it every day. I know.

Well, I guess, Jamie, I guess we got a little project. I guess we got a short film script on our hands. Sounds like a thesis project to me. Kate, we're going to get to know you a little bit better in a moment. First, we're going to tell our listeners a couple of the things that we're talking about today.

We, I think, are in the dance portion of the hammer in the dance, which is how somebody described the process of dealing with COVID. You do the full countrywide ban, and then there's like the, should we come out? Should we not? Like Groundhog coming out of his hole type thing. That's going to last for a lot longer than the hammer portion, I think, unfortunately.

So we're trying to figure out what we're doing. And fortunately, we have our dumbest person in charge of making the ultimate decision. So we're going to talk about that. We're going to talk about that professor's post on Medium that was getting passed around a lot. The risks and how to avoid them, I think, is what it was called. But it was basically just talking about how the disease actually functions, how it passes from one person to another.

We're going to talk about moodies, what they think is going to happen. We're going to talk about that plandemic video, which, woo, classic, instant classic. We're going to talk about The Last Dance, all of that, and plenty more. But first, Kate, we like to ask our guest, what is something from your search history that is revealing about who you are? So my current obsession during the quarantine is defunct amusement park rides, partially because- Yes.

Yeah. Are you a defunct land head? I am a defunct land head. Fuck yeah. Oh my God. This is great. So I'm great yeah i i it's funny i'm kind of a scaredy cat when it comes to actual theme parks like i can't really do roller coasters and stuff so i really enjoy watching like ride throughs on youtube of rides i will never be

brave enough to ride but i also love looking up stuff that doesn't exist anymore. And the one I found recently that I am fucking obsessed with is the Great Gremlins Adventure, which was a ride in Australia and Germany in the 90s where it was a dark ride where you ride through on a cart and see the gremlins recreate scenes through movie history with all these great animatronic gremlins. And it doesn't exist anymore. And I'm pretty heartbroken about it, honestly honestly I would give anything to go on there was a first of all I also yelped because last week we were talking about a guy who had trespassed in Orlando to camp on like Treasure Island or whatever island that was in like a defunct Disney attraction and then I started going down a rabbit hole on YouTube of just watching kids

trespass all over Orlando, like closed parts of Epcot and shit. And I was getting the biggest kick out of it. But now to hear this, see, I was just more, I think just watching, I was like loving watching kids get chased by security guards and like

getting evading them. But the gremlins, wait, it was only in Australia and Germany? Like what place? How come we didn't, how did we not was only in Australia and Germany? Yeah. At what place? How did we not know the magic of this ride in America? Yeah, what is the logic behind those specific, are those like Gremlin,

do people especially love Gremlins in Australia and Germany? Yeah, right? You're like, why was this not in Universal Studios here? I have to think it's probably due to the licensing and where they could get licensing for and it's like, oh, it'll be cheaper to do it not in America. But I believe the Australian park was like a sort of Warner Brothers park, which

is really intriguing to me. But I hope they did something with those gremlins. I mean, you can look up ride-throughs. It's incredible. It's like gremlins doing Singing in the Rain, like gremlins doing a western shootout. What? It seems so unfair we were deprived of this cute gremlins are pre are post-water gremlins post-water gremlins but then gizmo is in the ride and then one of the rides had alf and one of the rides had beetlejuice i can't remember which was rich Just like a dream. I love that. Just like a fever dream of a ride.

Totally. I had somebody when I posted about it on Twitter and somebody sent me a story that they were in Australia and their little sister, they had to stop the ride to pull the little sister off the ride because she was just having a meltdown about these gremlins.

I feel like I would maybe have a meltdown over those gremlins. What, like they freak you out? Yeah, gremlins i feel like i would maybe have a meltdown over those gremlins that sounds like they freak you out yeah gremlins aren't they aren't cute i mean i love that good day for jack facts yeah yeah i don't know gremlins 2 was one of my favorite films that's the new batch as we all know the key and peel sketch on that is great uh what is something that you think is underrated kate um i'm gonna talk about a director that i kind of discovered this year and i'm still working through her filmography but it's funny to me during this quarantine time everybody is talking about like comfort food movies and especially nancy myers

movies uh but one of my big discoveries this year is a director named Joan Micklin Silver, who made some of the best romantic comedies I've ever seen. I would say the two best movies to start with her are a movie called Crossing Delancey, which is just this really low key romantic comedy from the 80s with Amy Irving. And she somehow makes Peter Riegert into like the sexiest man alive in this movie don't ask me how he plays a character named the pickle man and by the end of the movie you're like where is my pickle man and she but you know the flip of that is she has another film called

chilly scenes of winter that is about kind of you know a hapless 20 something who falls in love with a married woman and things do not go well. And that's with John Hurt and Mary Beth Hurt and is from the 70s. But she's really awesome. She made movies all throughout the 80s and 90s. Some stuff that, you know, on its face looks like horndog comedies like Loverboy with Patrick Dempsey. And then you watch it and you're like, oh, this is a movie about how women's sexual desires are not prioritized and how their emotional lives are not

shown on screen so she's really dope she's still alive if you can seek out any of her movies I highly recommend it during quarantine she's dope wow Loverboy I didn't realize Loverboy was that deep I've like seen various moments of lover boy

but that that's the pizza delivery one right where like yeah yeah i guess it's based on a true story of a of a guy in beverly hills who was like delivering pizzas to rich ladies and was sleeping with them but it starts off in that sort of like 80s raunchy mode. And then like by the middle of the movie, you have all the women he's visiting, giving these like tearful monologues about how nobody like pays attention to them. And they're just like trapped in these mansions.

And you're like, okay, what movie am I watching? But she's, I don't know, her movies all kind of do that. You think you're getting one thing. And then by the end, you're like, this is very different, her movies all kind of do that. You think you're getting one thing, and then by the end, you're like, this is very different than I thought it was going to be. Carrie Fisher is in it, Christy Alley. You think this studio ever had notes? They're like, after these women, I don't know,

when they say these long-winded things, can Patrick Dempsey be like, hey, so we're going to fuck or what? Kind of lighten it after that. I don't know what's going on here. It is funny because in the movie you have those scenes and then it's like back to the pizza parlor where that's amazing i that realizing that he that patrick dempsey was in in 80s rom-com makes me realize i have no idea how old patrick dempsey is. I thought he must be very well preserved because I wouldn't have guessed.

Yeah. I think he was like a teenager at that point. Was he? Oh, okay. He was a lover boy, not a lover man. Not too late for a reboot. The one thing I remember from that is lover man,

it's just about a guy who has that is Lover Man. It's just about a guy who has sex. Lover Man. This is about a guy who fucks. The one thing I remember is that extra anchovies was the order, right? That they used to signal because they knew it was so gross that nobody else would order that. Anyways, little lover boy what a time what a time to be alive the 80s you love to hear it fun fact jack always orders extra anchovies

that is where my order comes from yeah uh just hoping that maybe this will come back in fashion uh what is something you think is overrated i I'm going to drop a hot one today. And it's honestly, it's just because it's the first thing that sprang to mind. And that is ranch dressing. I don't understand ranch dressing as a concept. I find it repulsive. Um, I don't understand why people eat it on a variety of things that are not salad. I can maybe understand French french fries but like ranch dressing

on pizza or a cheeseburger go to jail um absolutely i you know as a boring white person who loves mayonnaise i'm like why would you not just eat mayonnaise instead mayonnaise you get the tang and it's a better texture i don't know that's my hot take for the day. Wow. Because I hear the argument that people go, ranch goes a step beyond mayonnaise, man. And I'm like, I love it as a fried dipper. Don't really put an onion rings. It's mostly like a fried food dipper is how I get down with ranch. I mean, we have guests like Blair Saki famously will just drink, I believe, bottles of ranch dressing no matter what. That's what I'm talking about.

I'm just like, what? It's not that good, guys. Like, what? Kate, one thing that I'm surprised by is that your connection is so good when you're clearly not calling us from within America because that is an un-American take. There are better thick, creamy dressings. I don't mind ranch, but I feel like why have a ranch

when you've got a Caesar in the mix, if you've got a blue cheese in the mix? Wait, what are you putting Caesar on? Ranch almost everything. Whoa, okay, go on. Talk about extra anchovies. Yeah, seriously. I feel like ranch is also in the lower echelon Talk about extra anchovies Yeah, seriously But you can like

I feel like ranch is also In the lower echelon Of the creamy dips for me I've never dipped anything What do you dip in Caesar? I can only I love Caesar salad I just

So, I mean, tell me something In your mind What's the Jamie Loftus Caesar dipping combo? Oreo cookies Oreo and Caesar Two nights ago Carrots and? Oreo cookies. Oreo and Caesar. Two nights ago, carrots and Caesar. It

works. Baby carrots and Caesar. That's a vegetable. I'm expecting you to be like, no, man. What you do is you take a Filet-O-Fish. Put it next year. Here's one thing. You know those Tina's burritos? That's my brunch

a lot of days. I'll have a Tina's Burrito and a little puddle of Caesar, and you just slap around the Tina's in the pile of Caesar. Not bad. Slap around the Tina's in a pile of Caesar. Authentic cuisine. Nothing is more disappointing to me than when wings come with ranch instead of blue cheese oh yeah that's so far as that's violence yeah yeah because ranch does not actively cool the way that blue cheese does also half the time though i don't even i'm just eating like lemon pepper wings and

i don't even need sauce i'm like anyway i really miss, I'm just, all this to say I'm realizing I'm doing the thing in the cartoons where someone just walked by my window and I envisioned a silver platter of wings, all flat. That was their head. Your eyes pop out of your head. And I was just like, someone walking their dog. I'm like, yeah, lemon pop, yeah.

My tongue rolls out. Yeah, Kate, good point. We were wondering why his tongue rolled out of his mouth and across his keyboard. I haven't had an appetite for wings since the Super Bowl. Producer Hans saw him at Whole Foods. He was buying wings. I was like, hey, you know what?

Wings can't be that hard to make. I'll get some wings. And I made such bad wings that i've like lost my appetite for wings what'd you do you grilled them no i uh i baked them in and like i think i did something weird with uh like putting them on a rack as opposed to or like the wrong kind of rack because they were just like hard and not in like a crispy way. Dude, grill them on high. Get the nice color on both sides. Then move them to one side of your grill

and then turn the heat off on that side and then just cook them on indirect heat. And they're really hard to overcook like that. Just a simple on the grill. You know what I mean? But it sounds like if my mom, if my mother were to review your wings as she did the film Cats,

her review would be, something just didn't go right. Something went wrong. Very diplomatic. Yeah, that would be my answer. I was the only one who ate them, fortunately. I was so disgusted with myself. Yeah, I ate the bone and all, just off in the corner, while talking myself down.

Oh, that's why your lips were so cut up that next Monday. Idiot. Kate, finally, what's your myth? What's something people think is true you know to be false? I'm going to talk about one of my favorite topics, which is the fact that there is this idea since we have gotten rid of physical media and video stores that every movie you could possibly want to see is available on streaming or for rental via streaming. And that's just not true. Like last week, I was like, oh, I want to have a chill Tuesday night and watch the piano um you can rent the piano on itunes and that is literally it a movie that has two oscars and was a huge hit in the 90s so i ordered some 10 year old like janky bootleg

uh uh or not bootleg blu-ray of it uh that's like you know one of those bad first edition blu-rays because that's the best way to see the movie now. But it's, you know, I hope people realize as their home and they're watching things on streaming that like, yes, there's a lot of content out there. But there's also a ton of content that's just not available. And at this point is frankly in danger of becoming obsolete forever. sort of scaled back on physical media production when there are still movies that never got transferred from VHS or LaserDisc is insane to me. And I think, you know, it's one of those problems that seems sort of far away from you until you try to look for a movie that you want to watch and you find that some, you know, 90s indie movie or 80s teen movie that seems like it should be super available is not available.

And then you're like, what the fuck? And you realize you should have bought the DVD or if there was a blockbuster or other video stores, you could just go rent the damn thing. But I don't know. It's interesting. I think streaming has created this sort of false, false idea in people's heads that we should have given up our physical media libraries and things like video stores when in fact uh we've given up a lot of content and a lot of movies are now out of print forever because we just sort of rushed to streaming um for people who don't know kate uh

you co-host the blacklist podcast with franklin leonard who was on our show recently so you know a thing or two about this film thing. Do you think there's a reason why the piano specifically? I have a very immature theory, but do you have an idea why you think the piano isn't there? Harvey Keitel's dick, Miles? Is it Harvey Keitel's dick? It's not the most immature thing.

Okay, wait, what are you talking about? Jack, if you say Harvey Keitel's dick one more time, it'll appear in the room. I was going to say, you say Harvey Keitel's huge hog in that film. I've never seen the piano. I've never seen the piano. I thought his dick was in that. No, it is.

Famously. I think most people's first thing they remember is like, I think Anna Paquin may have won an Academy Award for that, but I know for sure Harvey Keitel's dick is in that along with Bad Luton. But there's like- And it was nominated, but did not win. I think, look, Harvey Keitel's dick is in that, along with Bad Lieutenant. But there's like... And it was nominated, but did not win. I think, look, Jeffrey Rush in Quills shows his dills in Quills.

That film is behind... You have to pay $3.99 to see that. To see Jeffrey Rush's penis is in a movie? Yes, in Quills. You want to see the Jeffrey Rush dills? Again, the rhyme is there. It's Quills. And then Shame, the Fassbender one, also you got to pay.

So I wonder if you have to pay to see Peen. Yeah, I did a deep dive about sex scenes in movies last fall. And something I found is that nudity has really decreased in movies, which is great for female actors who have sort of been objectified. And, you know, we all sort of remember the like oh and here's the titty shot in every 80s movie action right yeah it's like van damme there's gonna be breasts there's a titty shot in uh i think that that my i think i guess favorite egregious titty shot is in the beginning of die hard there's just like i was just gonna say a

titty for it you're just like what what was that sure yeah which one are you talking about because there's two within like a couple minutes there's the terrorists show up and a woman runs out of an office without her with her talking about yeah okay and then immediately after bruce willis is walking around like avoiding the terrorists and I think he either looks out the window and sees a woman like changing across the

street or something or he sees or he sees a clipping from like a porno magazine and is like ladies or something like that like the galaxy brain nudity of 80s movies is just wild.

It's just like, just so you know, this guy loves naked women, but he's just... Because they hadn't established that, I guess, because he'd only been fighting with his wife. Hold on, Jackson. It's totally straight.

The topic here is guys'icks and movies and kate was saying she was figuring out there's less nudity kate i'm so sorry for taking things away from uh your topic which was dicks and movies yeah you know guys i have a letterboxd list of prominent dicks in cinema that's how i'm trying to help the people i'm so sorry i i'm sorry this is our podcast kate okay here's a funny digression on that a couple years ago i had a friend who was working on i will not name the franchise but if you think about it i think you will figure it out one of her friends was working on the only sex movie franchise of the last decade and there was an argument about putting some male nudity in that movie uh so my friend

texts me and she's like hi can you put together of like great dick shots a list together of great dick shots and movies so we can like show this to the team and maybe get some peen in this movie um because like i don't know when i was like a teenager and stuff i had like a running tally of like oh you see peen in this movie um but I do think that that could be one major reason for why certain things are not making the jump the other big one is music rights uh one of the few ways that you can get a lot of money out of licensing songs anymore is when they're in movies or tv so a lot of times you will have replacement music or something that's stuck in limbo because of the music. So with the piano, it could be that they don't want to pay to relicense the

Michael Nyman score. But it's why when you see like Daria pop up or the Wonder Years pop up and all the music is replaced, that's why is because it becomes- Yeah, I'm like, where's my Joe Cocker? You want, yeah, right? It totally like, the experience is different. You're like, is replaced that's wise because yeah it becomes where's my joe cocker you want yeah right it totally like it the experience is different you're like this is not the song that played that's like yeah my partner she's a big dawson's creek head and i saw her watching that i said what the fuck is this and she said dawson's creek i'm like no this is not dawson's creek because i'm not hearing them yeah i'm like this is some off-brand shit. This is Dawson's whatever the fuck.

I wonder what a Dawson's Creek rewatch would be like now. Does a single second of it hold up? Oh, man. Let me tell you, as a person of color, there was a moment where fucking, what's her face? Joey. Joey's sister is dating a black guy, and they referred it as her black boyfriend. It's so amber-fisted, and I'm like oh no it was the 90s y'all what are you gonna expect oh better than that there yeah well i mean i'm just looking back at the entire course of history

and i'm like what are you gonna expect i was thinking the other day about how like a major part of that show that was supposed to be cute was that Joey and Dawson would often sleep in the same bed. And that was supposed to be like, aww. But then in reality, James Van Der Beek's character just has a boner all night. You're just like, that's not romantic. That's weird. I don't know. Yeah.

You're like, oh, this platonic sleepover. Yeah. Cool. You're like, I guess maybe a sleepover. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, I'm going to, I'm going to sleep with my back to you though. Okay. No spooning.

It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. As I was looking up the movie shame, the cinematographer, his name is Sean Bobbitt. Okay. Yeah.

Okay. Uh, all right. We're going to take a quick break to look up more peeing shots and we'll be back to report on that i've been thinking about you i want you back in my life it's too late for that i have a proposal for you come up here and document my project all you need to do is record everything like you always do one session 24 hours bpm 110 120 she's terrified should we wake her up absolutely not

what was that you didn't figure it out i think i need to hear you say it that was live audio of a woman's nightmare this This machine is approved and everything? You're allowed to be doing this? We passed the review board a year ago. We're not hurting people. There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new

horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Latinx communities. This podcast is an intergenerational conversation between Latinas from Gen X to Gen Z. We're covering everything from body image to representation in film and television. We even interview iconic Latinas like Puerto Rican actress Ana Ortiz. I felt in control of my own physical body and my own self. I was on birth control. I had sort of had my first sexual experience. If you're in your señora era or know someone who is, then this is the show for you. We're your hosts, Diosa and Mala, and you might recognize us from our flagship podcast, Locatora Radio.

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So all of these we have, we think, Latin culture. There's a mention of blood sausage in Homer's Odyssey that dates back to the 9th century B.C. B.C.? I didn't realize how old the hot dog was. Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Cultura podcast network,

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And we're back! And, hey, what's happening in the news? We're still quarantined. Right? Yep. Am I right, guys? Yeah. So I guess this quarantine thing's still going on. Unless we're in the Matrix and this is what the pods look like

when we're plugged into human batteries like every we experience life through a zoom call one of my friends had a great line she was like can somebody just like knock my plug out in the matrix can you just like can somebody be like mopping and knock me out yeah and just flop down not like this not like this it Not like this. It's so hard to know where we're at anymore with anything. We're safe. We're not safe. We see things from the CDC defining what's safe.

Only hear the White House be like, no, no, no, don't show people that because then they'll know what safe is and they'll realize it's not. Nothing is safe at the moment. But, you know, right now, like there's the glimmer of hope in that Governor Cuomo is saying that, you know, like May 15th looks realistic as a timeline to be able to begin reopening New York. You know, 26,000 people and counting have passed away in New York from coronavirus. And but now, like I think over the weekend, like it was like 161 in one night. So overall, Cuomo says like the state is over the mountain in terms of hospitalizations, intubations, ICU admissions, and all that. It's all gone down. So that's been, I think, for a lot of people.

It's weird. I think a lot of people have been experiencing this outbreak through the lens of New York without looking at what is actually happening where they go. Because so much of the immediate attention is on New York. I think a lot of people are just mapping that onto them. They go, well, New York's bad,

but here isn't bad. So I guess that's where we're at and I'm still okay. So things are fine. But when you look at the, at the States that are about to reopen Cuomo is, I think the, no Cuomo is the only governor who can point to a decline in these cases and hospitalizations,

like while talking about reopening in like that was one of the that was one of the uh things that you needed right was for it to have been declining for two weeks in a row and like new york yeah yeah that was like the cdc's guidelines right yeah which we don't pay attention we look at all these other states we look at all these other states and they're beginning to really like act like it's all good. Like, OK, New York's reopening. That means everywhere else is OK. It's just hard because, yeah, when they anyone looking at the numbers of New York, you have to look at sort of like right now,

we're starting to now see these outbreaks hit rural counties and smaller areas of the country that were just weeks behind the rest of these like massively populated urban centers. And they're saying a lot of the analysis says a lot of the counties that voted for Trump in 2016 are likely to begin seeing influxes of cases in this the last week and this week so that experience seems to be catching up other places only now

um yet we're still kind of like you know spiking the football as if everything's all good yeah it was it was a strange weekend this weekend because it's you you feel like the vibe like whether you're strictly talking to people online or if you're starting to see people around your neighborhood, the vibe is kind of, or at least where I live, it's been kind of changing. And it makes me triple anxious because it's like we all sort of know we're not out of it, but people are just so anxious to get out that it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy in a lot of ways yeah the overall number like new york was such a huge part of the national like you know such an epicenter and like i think at one point it was like 50 percent of cases were happening there and so as its numbers have started to fall like overall numbers have started to fall, like overall numbers have started to fall. But there was this post on the Medium site, Aaron Bromage or aaronbromage.com. He's a professor at UMass Dartmouth. And his area of focus is very specific.

He's not an expert or he's not a doctor but he does like specifically focus on epidemiological research and was like from the start of the semester tracking covet 19 as like a project for his class so he's been posting on facebook uh because apparently he's older and uh then started doing this blog where he was like posting just sort of his insights into the numbers and one of the big things in this post that went viral over the past couple weeks was just that uh even though the numbers are trending downwards nationally like if you pull new york out of that our numbers are still going up as a country um which is really like this whole thing is completely locally oriented and that's just

i think both from a just like everyday perspective because we're used to watching like national media and share it like watching uh the same netflix shows that people on the east coast are watching and you know having shared experiences and being able to contact someone in new york so quickly uh or like across the country so quickly our minds are in a global or at the very least national like mode but this is specifically something that is uh explicitly taking place in physical space and like your reality on in one town slash even like one like area of town is going to be completely different uh than people like across the country and so it's just it's almost like a perfect trap to get us to let our guard down

um and then there's also the fact that the federal government is working with this short term uh you know we got to get the economy back up and running so trump can get re-elected i think for me like maybe the hardest thing about all of this is the fact that i've realized that like many americans either can't read a chart or refuse to read a chart like just can't look at a growth chart and you know understand a concept like exponential growth of spreading and you know want to believe things like fox news want to believe things like Plandemic, as opposed to just, you know, like an SAT question. Look at the curve. Look where the curve is going. Like, it's just sort of horrifying. My parents live in Ohio. That's where I grew up. And I've been very fortunate that

even as a Republican governor, Mike DeWine has done a really good job, as opposed to some other states in that region. But yeah, I think the locality is going to become one of the biggest takeaways from all of this. Like even just having thoughts of like, well, if I have to drive home for Christmas to hang out with my parents instead of flying, I'm happy to do that. But I do think you'll start to see people, you know, fewer international vacations, more road trips across the USA, stuff like that. Yeah.

Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead.'s sorry go ahead no go ahead uh i've been trying to be better about because jack you're totally right of just like it is so easy to talk to anyone in any location and i've been trying to anytime i'm talking to like whether it's like my family or friends that live in different states and cities just like listen to where they're at first before I start because it's so easy to assume we're all on the same uh you know we're all in the same situation we're all in the same wavelength but it's like yes street to street it can be an entirely different story depending on what your circumstances are and like I mean the things in my area are slowly improving, but in my hometown, it's like there's an eight o'clock curfew because things are spreading so quickly. And so, yeah, when you're having those conversations, it's, you know, ask the ask the other person where they're at first. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, the thing, too, is this like even with how, how you know these cities experience at first and the media ends up focusing on these places again and we start we tend to live these experiences through unfortunately these like media narratives that we're you know consuming that for especially a lot of these trump voters who are people who are like man like we just got to open up what's the deal because of where they live there the effects were just completely abstract to them it was like they're like dude i don't know a single fucking person with this what are you talking about if i do i heard it's like upstate and people don't come through here whatever

and now that it's that because trump was like being so casual about it and we're starting to see these little clusters in these small smaller rural communities and things like that the experts just really wanting to, again, reemphasize to these people just because New York is declining. That is a completely different place than where you live. And also the threat of your hospitals and medical systems and infrastructure being overwhelmed by an outbreak are much higher because of where you are in relation to a larger metropolitan area and the resources available are completely different. So it's again, it's this weird thing where people just have to like, they're just only concerned with their own comfort because I think statistically the data would be overwhelming, maybe emotionally to say like, oh my God, I'm at, I'm at, you know, I'm operating at the will of this virus, whatever happens to it, that's what's in control.

And I think that's really what most people are rejecting is this idea that they aren't in control. And it's like the same thing, like back to talking about watching Fox news or something like when I watch, you know, my team or somewhere in sports, your team does terribly. I'll avoid the news because I don't want to hear that. I don't want to hear the news picking apart how terrible the performance was of my team. If anything, I want to go find articles that are from pundits saying, you know, even though that was a loss, here are the good things we actually saw on this

and why the other people, you know, it's like we do whatever we can to sort of preserve our, you know, perception of having control and things like that. And I think that's what's really interesting in all of this is like, it's all just about people unwilling to feel like something bad could happen to them and it's completely out of their control well we'll probably return to uh that professor's kind of writing on

the subject because uh he also debunks like some of the things it not really debunks but like has some interesting insights into like how the disease is actually transmitted and time spent with somebody is a big point. Indoors, yeah. Yeah, time spent with somebody indoors, that's how they do contact tracing. Yeah, it's a good article. It made me feel both better and worse. Yes. I read that article and I said,

we're never recording a podcast until there's a vaccine. Yeah. Because the whole thing was saying by speaking in close proximity I read that article and I said, we're never recording a podcast until there's a vaccine. Yeah. Because the whole thing was saying like by speaking in close proximity in a not well ventilated area in a small room, like you're just putting more particles in the air and you're in the same room for one hour and it's not properly ventilated. I mean, like there are things that I'm like being like, oh my God, like that's the environment of recording a podcast in a studio is just like Germfest 2020. I will not die of a hot take.

I'll tell you that right now. Here lies Jamie Loftus. She died for the hot take. Cause of death, scorching hot take. Cause of death, touched face after recording podcast. God of Death touched face after recording podcast. There's also another piece of information that's going viral in the past week when it comes to the pandemic

is a video called Plandemic. And you know it's true. You know it's chock full of truth because it has a clever name to it. And you can tell. Okay. Plan mixed with pandemic. Boom.

They got to this idea first. Done and done. No, it's made by a fully disgraced scientist who got fired, sued for doing the bad science, Dr. Judy Mikovits. One important detail about who she is, is at one point, after she had falsified data, gotten fired, and then had stolen data from the lab that had fired her, she was living, quote, out on a boat to avoid being sued by the lab um so that's the level of like understanding of how the world works that you're dealing with uh she she thought uh i'm on water therefore home base can't be sued done and done uh oh she like had like a maritime sovereign citizen idea in her mind?

Yeah. She was living on a boat to avoid being sued. Right. And she's like, I only answer to the laws of Poseidon. That's right. That's right. But she has started writing books after she kind of got kicked out of the scientific community. after she kind of got kicked out of the scientific community.

She wrote one with an anti-vaccine advocate. Plague of Corruption is currently on the Amazon bestseller list. It was written even before the coronavirus outbreak. But her claims are pretty easily debunked. She claims that the virus was genetically manipulated. When the scientific consensus is it wasn't but the president is you know he's like who knows we can't know we can't know for sure i mean we can know for sure because science but i don't want to know for sure so who knows we won't know for sure yeah uh she also says that you shouldn't wear a mask because then you're being exposed to your own oh yeah there's that and then

it's also you're activating your own virus which is hard to fact check because no one knows what the fuck she's talking about like that sounds cool though yeah that sounds like a song in the summer like yo activate your own virus activate your own virus. Activate your own virus. Wait, by wearing a mask, like you're just some weird viral feedback loop, like Tom's weird bachelor party in Succession? Yes. Yeah, exactly. As someone who aspires to live on a boat and fall off the grid, this is bad representation.

This is bad representation. Wait, what would, in your mind, Jamie, why do you take off to live on a boat to avoid the laws of our land, This is bad representation. Wait, what would, in your mind, Jamie, why do you take off to live on a boat to avoid the laws of our land, our land-loving people? It's not even to avoid the laws of the land-lovers for me. It's just I've always wanted to live on a houseboat and then not have an internet connection and never hear an opinion again.

Except for that of my seagull friends. Yeah, except for what my quirky seagull friends who bring me forks say, of course. Right. But just one misplaced caw from them can ruin my day. And it really hurts. It really hurts. I do feel like there's something in the zeitgeist

with birds are coming for us. That might be me just exposing that I have been alone for too long, but I just keep hearing people having battles with birds for some reason. Is it because of the COVID bat? Is COVID bat patient zero? I don't know. Yeah, maybe there's something psychological. Well, Sophia was talking about training crows.

Sarah June has chickens. And then we found out that those roosters can't be around hens or also forcibly have sex with the hens. It's like a lot of weird bird talk. Bird-demic, baby. My little kind of genius six-year-old nephew has, in the past couple weeks become obsessed with birds and

identifying them. A good friend of mine is being menaced by a mockingbird in his friend's backyard. It's very weird. I think

birds are like, all right, now we have them where we want them wow now it's our time to strike the birds too yeah like where us not being out like clearly a lot of animals and wildlife have gotten their swagger back because people aren't like you know fucking in their neighborhood as much that i wonder if like birds collectively are like okay it's us now we run this shit and like when we all come back out like birds collectively are like, okay, it's us now we run this shit. And like when we all come back out, like birds all have new attitudes,

like pigeons don't fly out of the street. Like they're like, yeah, fucking run me over. Um, I'm curious. We'll see. Is I haven't read it is to kill a mockingbird,

a advice manual, or is that, does that tell you how to, um, there's a guy in the back. Yeah. Here's a trap one. Yeah.

So anyways, like we're saying, don't listen to this non-scientific take by this person. Listen to us, the guy who thinks that birds are coming to take over the world. You can trust me. Yeah. You start going, hold on. We got to stop talking about this coronavirus thing guys i'm sorry we gotta talk i'm you know and i get it climate change is on the horizon too but these fucking birds man really picked a good tangent to go off on while debunking

this anti-science take but the birds that's where the real yeah that's where the real, yeah. That's where the real conspiracy is. Fight the real enemy. Yeah. We'll fight them in the skies. But anyways, millions of people have seen her plandemic video. Facebook and Twitter and all the regular platforms immediately took it down because of the mask. Like the mask thing is basically like shouting fire in a crowded theater. It's like, obviously you can't do that because you're going to get people very sick by claiming not that you shouldn't be wearing a mask.

Have you guys been thinking about it all? Like I have been thinking about like the 2005 to like 2008 internet and how differently the information we'd be getting about COVID-19 would be disseminated like in those days when like you know we had instant messaging we had news websites but we did not have it was right before social media hit so you didn't have this sort of echo chamber or these like thousands of voices all chiming in but i do think about like had this happened in like 2007 how different things would be i mean obviously at the government level but just in terms of like how that kind of info would be shared online like does plandemic even exist in that environment right right yeah i mean if it was it'd be such a fringe site on the sides.

Like it'd be like in the same circles where like, you know, like looking for your like truth or vids or whatever. Like, oh, right. Pandemic. All right. All right. Because, yeah, I've had some trippy people try and share some weird shit that was not real at all. And I was like, oh, no, no, no no but like and from people whose intelligence i respect uh but again i think goes back to what i was saying i was like i think it's just an exercise in people's ability to accept what's happening without having to assign some really absurd like origin story to it to then just be like yeah science is a thing you know because of our interactions with animals shit like this can happen we live in a fucking global earth now where move people move around and yeah it can lead to something like this but i guess it's easier to think some mad scientist is in a lab like hell

bent on like getting everybody to like watch fucking reruns of will and grace or something because that's the liberal agenda it's more cinematic there i i i try like with with the conspiracy like fringe theory stuff it's like if you it's so funny to picture someone just saying that like when they're like out loud and they're like okay we're having like a barbecue and someone's like all right so here's my thing with the fucking birds and just imagine how quickly you could silence a table and you're like okay so that's not something that's worth pursuing online if you could silence a table and you're like, okay, so that's not something that's worth pursuing online. If you would silence a table full of your loved ones simply by bringing it up, you know, think twice maybe.

I've done this as well talking about Beanie Babies recently. I've silenced a Zoom call being like, here's the thing about Beanie Babies. Here's the thing. Someone just shared a video with me about the manufactured demand he created in the market. It was all a hoax. It was all a fix, guys. He's a genius.

There was drugs in the beans. Jamie, do you, like me, have hundreds of Beanie Babies in your parents' basement somewhere? My mom will not disclose where the Beanie Babies are at. She still believes in the secondary market. I was getting deep into Beanie Babies are at. She still believes in the secondary market. I was getting deep into Beanie Baby lore this past, as Jack and Miles know, and

I texted my mom being like, where did all your Beanie Babies go? She's like, I still have them. I was like, yeah, but where are they? She's like, I still have them. She's like, wouldn't you like to know? Yeah, yeah. She still thinks she's going to send me to college 10 years ago on this shit. That Princess Diana Beanie Baby is going to be the only currency that goes in the wasteland.

It's worth $5. It's so depressing. Actually, when Jack and I were doing our live show, we were doing a retrospective on the year 2000. And we were talking about Beanie Babies. in the year 2000, and we were talking about Beanie Babies, and I had found an eBay listing at the time where someone was demanding a quarter of a million dollars for the Princess Diana Beanie Baby in the year 2020. They're worth $5 still.

They're worth the price they were when they came out. Why does it have a special rose embroidered on the chest then? It's like the Phantom Menace action figures. We all bought the Phantom Menace action figures being like, you know what in 20 years rookie card this jake lloyd's the next marlon brando i'm telling you hey he still could be we don't know um yeah all right guys let's take a quick break we'll be right back to talk pop culture and other bullshit. I've been thinking about you. I want you back in my life.

It's too late for that. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. One session session 24 hours bpm 110 120 she's terrified should we wake her up absolutely not what was that you didn't figure it out i think i need to hear you say it that was live audio of a woman's nightmare this This machine is approved and everything?

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I had sort of had my first sexual experience. If you're in your Senora era or know someone who is, then this is the show for you. We're your hosts, Diosa and Mala, and you might recognize us from our flagship podcast, Locatora Radio. We're so excited for you to hear our brand new podcast, Senora Sex Ed. Listen to Senora Sex Ed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, everyone. It's me, Katie Couric. Have you heard about my newsletter called Body and Soul? It has everything you need to know about your physical and mental health.

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Body and Soul at katiecouric.com slash body and soul. Taking better care of yourself is just a click away. In a galaxy far, far away. No, babe, that's taken. We're in our own world, remember? Right. In our own world, we're two space cadets and totally normal humans. Sure, totally normal humans. Embark on a journey across the stars, discovering the wonders of the universe one episode at a time. We'll talk about life, love, laughter, and why you should never argue with your co-pilot.

Especially when she's always right. Right, and if we hit turbulence, just blame it on Mercury retrograde. Or Emily's questionable space piloting skills. Hey, join us on In Our Own World for cosmic conversations, stellar laughs, and super corny dad jokes. Listen to In Our Own World as a part of the My Cultura podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't worry, we promise to avoid any black holes. Most of the time. And we're back. And The Last Dance was back on ESPN last night. I watched it this morning.

Episode 7 and 8. What did you guys think? Jamie, did you watched it this morning. Episode 7 and 8. What did you guys think? Jamie, did you watch it this time? I did watch it this time. I've watched it every time. Yeah, you watched it. Okay, my bad. Did you watch it again this time? Did you continue the epic journey? Yes, I continued the epic journey.

We're getting into the zone now where I was actually learning things i i didn't know uh before i didn't know too much about the details of the baseball season i didn't know like yeah so i i hear you say that as if everything up until this point you're like i already know all of this what is going next but i knew like the general like i knew the general overview but like the the 94 to 96 i wasn't as as clear on like the interlude years or or what those were like i didn't know it was prompted by his father's passing like it was it was a really emotional

couple of episodes and then you see him cry at the end and you're like man he's a real he's a real one when he's just it's so drama but it's so beautiful i was crying yeah it's the shot that where he has a drink next to him and seems like he's a little drunk uh is when he starts crying and the thing he's crying about he's like this is who i am if you don't want to play way, don't play that way. I'm just a real competitor. Break. It's like of all the things that would have made you cry this episode,

just talking about how competitive you are was not the thing I have my money on. He brought himself to tears with his own. Brought himself to tears. Yeah. Wait, did he say break like he was in a huddle with himself? No, like break, like stop shooting.

That's the end of this shot. I thought he was just like, you know, because I get him around and say, this is who I am. If you don't want to play that way, then don't play. Break. Because I'm only reading the text. I haven't seen it. I'm adding my own version of the show.

I like that. That would be a fun addition. So the James Jordan thing, I hadn't realized, like turned into references to the gambling stuff like right away i thought that was more of like a conspiracy theory that emerged over time but like the media immediately was like well he has all these like gambling things happening and then all of a sudden his dad gets mysteriously killed the like and now he's retiring like that's all too much to so i think he i don't know like that that uh conspiracy theory which i have at various times

been intrigued by and said was intriguing i feel less like i feel like it's just kind of stupid outsider speculation um in particular like one of the details that you learn in this is that one of the reporters who was with him during the summer of 92 in barcelona with the dream team uh jordan was like yeah i'm probably gonna retire after next season and go play baseball and the guy was like what he's like yeah like, yeah, I don't tell anyone, but I'm going to retire after next season and go play baseball. And the guy was like, yeah, okay. And then it happened and people were like, this must be a conspiracy theory. And the guy was like, no, that's what he was talking to his dad about before his dad passed away was him retiring and going to play baseball. So he felt like he owed it to his dad. And so he started the season off with a 13-game hitting streak, which I didn't remember, before they figured out he couldn't hit a curveball or a breaking ball. And then he started hitting like shit.

But it is like they talk about how it is like they're just throwing him fastballs constantly yeah yeah i think they just didn't know i think they generally like mix it up more with like they would any other hitter and right right right but when they realize it's like as if you were a basketball player who has no left hand and can't dribble left they're like no you got no left bro yeah you can't hit the off speed pitches because he's like by the time you get to double a baseball which is like the second highest of the minor leagues like the second hardest of the minor leagues like you're facing basically people who don't have like giant gaping holes in their swing but like this is probably the first person that they've played against who like

hasn't played baseball since high school. So like he's, he still has like high school guy issues with his game. Uh, but Terry Francona was his manager, which is wild. Like Terry Francona, who would eventually win the world series with the Red Sox.

And he was like, he's the hardest working guy I've ever seen. And like, he would have been a good baseball player if he had stuck with it, which is pretty, uh, Oh, like in high school, like if, if he had, no, no. Like if he had kept stuck at baseball, he would have made it to the majors. Um, and then like, you're saying even in him, in his like leaving basketball, that if he had actually knuckled down francona believed that

he could have oh shit especially when i was watching the baseball portion and i'm not i'm not an expert in this but like as people were like actually he was pretty good at baseball he probably could have gotten he could have been i'm just like oh you really cannot make an honest documentary about someone until they're dead like you can't like i feel like if michael jordan if there was no chance that michael jordan would ever find out uh that people were like he was a fine baseball player like but no one would say that while he's still alive when you're doing it for the big michael jordan documentary yeah terry francona goes oh my you should have seen this dude he. We called him the dead body because he was stinking it up out there.

And that is sort of the hot take of the series that he wasn't that bad at baseball because the way it went down in history was that he was a joke and should never have been playing. One thing that I hadn't really thought of was that he wasn't starting at the lowest level he was actually they like put him in a league where he like by all rights should not have been playing double a baseball um and the owner of the bulls is the also the owner of the white socks and he's like

yeah we only stuck him in the big leagues because we couldn't accommodate him at the other facilities. And it's like such a bullshit excuse. They were clearly like trying to set him up for failure so that he would come back to basketball, I think. Did he just play for the Barons, the Birmingham Barons? Was that the only team he played for? Yeah, I think so. And that was like the White Sox minor league.

Yeah, because I remember I had three Michael Jordan baseball cards because I was a huge baseball card collector. These are going to be worth so much. I was like, get ready, Dad. College is on me. Yeah, so I thought that was really... It is just such a strange thing that happened that the best basketball player of all time

retired at the height of his powers, went and played baseball. It was just a very, very cool episode to see that. And then he comes back. And this is also the episode or the pair of episodes where you get him being mean to his teammates. That kind of is a focus of the two episodes. They show him shit-talking this guy, Scott Burrell.

Just like a guy who most people forget was even on the team. He keeps calling him, he's like, make this free throw, ho. I was like, what the fuck? He calls him a hoe multiple times it's like just such a weird thing to hear coming out of michael jordan's mouth i love you he's treating him like a pimp then huh my favorite like that yeah that's not a huge sports fan my favorite part of these two episodes was see the behind the scenes of space jam there this is the behind the scenes of space jam episode you get to see that one incredible shot of just all green screen and people playing the monstars in green yeah playing defense on him

and then michael jordan's just in the middle like moving his arms and you're like wow movie magic look at it look at it but yeah it was inspiring seeing how like because partially due to space jam he got that whole court on the Warner Brothers lot and all this great stuff happened and Space Jam helped elevate him back to greatness. I loved it. That was a really cool detail of the story that I hadn't known.

I read the book version of this before two weeks ago just because I was so excited about this and that whole Space Jam thing was not in there. Like that, they have footage, Miles, of like he was like, I'll do Space Jam if you build a facility where I can practice like around the clock when I'm not shooting.

And they like build him this amazing like field house essentially on the Warner Brothers lot. And then all the best players in the league started coming out and like practicing with him. And this was after his first half season back when he kind of sucked for him and had fucked up. And so he used it to scout all the best players in the league and check out everyone's game.

Or like lure them into his player. It's so, yeah yeah it's great i do even feel like when i was a kid i feel like it was that sort of comeback moment that it was like space jam was a huge deal and was really pushed to kids as being this like massive thing that was going to bring jordan back to the mainstream like i remember the mcdon McDonald's toys for it was the usual. They were the big, I remember I had the Lola Bunny and I pierced her ears, but they were like, this is a big fucking deal. You're seven, Jordan is

coming back to basketball, you're getting a fancy McDonald's toy. Get ready. You know it's serious. That was the only reason I knew the Michael Jordan myth as a kid is it's the first couple scenes of Space Jam where they're like and he would go outside every night and he wouldn't stop shooting baskets and but like they give you like the whole legend primer in Space Jam it's great and he wore

his old college shorts as underwear there forever the also the other amazing thing they have is they take you through the practice where he punches Steve Kerr in the face and Steve Kerr like punches him in the chest, which I thought would be something that they avoided. But that like next to that part, because they go from that because that's like leading into the 72 win season when he was like extra motivated and just super pissed and steve kerr's like he came into camp frothing at the mouth that year just like really fired up and so they like get into a fist fight they make up and then they go into the beginning of the 72 win season and they're playing that rapture remix uh the krs1 like bad boy rapture remix that's so dope it's like such a great i don't

know the end of episode seven when he's like talking about how driven he is and like crying and then that part of episode eight are like the high points of the documentary for me uh and i already loved it but these these episodes were great yeah jamie you have any anything you want to no i i just i like it i was i i'm really it's next weekend is the last weekend of jordan episodes the last last dance yeah you know i got a feeling you guys he gonna win the he's gonna win the game he's gonna win the game i have a feeling guys he did it i know it he's gonna he's gonna confess he's gonna forget that his mic's on when he goes to the bathroom no spoilers no spoilers but i think he's he's gonna win the game and then at the end he's gonna confess to the murder

of course you just punch steve kerr in the face of course i punched him like a little hoe he's just muttering hoe under his breath in the bathroom one thing we talked about on last week's episode was uh craig hodges was saying that he thought jordan like specifically cut him out of the uh of this documentary series and i was like well who cares he was like kind of a he didn't play that much he wasn't a starter and uh apparently so craig hodges first of all like his game was way ahead of his time he was a like the best three-point shooter it was just like a decade before three-point shooting was recognized as like the key to winning a bunch of games um but he was also like the reason the story behind he and Jordan's relationship is really interesting because he was like politically active.

And during the when the Bulls first went to the finals, it was against the Lakers and right after the LAPD beating of Rodney King. And he tried to get Jordan and Magic Johnson to boycott game one of the finals to send a message. And Jordan was like, you're crazy. And Magic Johnson was like, that's too extreme, Craig. after the next year when the riots happened because the police got off, like Craig Hodges basically was like critical of Michael Jordan for not ever taking a stand. And he was basically run out of league. His agent dropped him.

and like they, this article talks about how this article is from like three years ago uh and the article talks about how this reporter would like ask nba players in like 2003 uh like five years after this whole thing happened like what uh like why they why the nba players don't take a political stand and they're like well you don't want to end up like craig hodges who like got run out of the league for taking a political stand it's wild too because he i mean he went to meet george hw bush in a daishiki at the white house and he had written an eight-page letter talking about the

plight of African-Americans in this country and was like apparently there's an also an anecdote that W was there because you know he likes basketball too and wanted to meet the teams and because Hodges was wearing a dashiki he thought he was not American and very slowly was like hello and where are you from sir and Craig Hodges says I'm from Chicago Heights. Like, just straight back at him. And what happened was, like, later on, you know,

people found out about that letter and he was asked if he thought the president read it. And he's like, I'm pretty sure he didn't. And then he was also, like, did another interview where he was, like,

Jack was saying, he was talking about seeing these, like, Mike commercials and, like, realizing this missed opportunity. And he was asked about, like, the lack of Black owners in the NBA and was just very clearly just articulated the problem with the lack of Black ownership, racism in the NBA, and all this other stuff of people failing to address judicial injustice. So that story ran. Then 25 days after Chicago won the next championship,

So that story ran. Then 25 days after Chicago won the next championship, Hodges was told he would not be offered a deal, and he was only 32, just days after. And it's just like, yeah, it shows you how effectively activists can be erased out of a narrative when it just doesn't quite fit with whatever you're trying to say. Because I'm not, I don't look at this and say,

oh my God, Michael Jordan is evil because he did this or whatever. It would have been a very powerful moment in this documentary i think to actually confront this this back and forth between him and craig hodges and to talk about the fear he may have had what he thought he had to lose by speaking up what the experiences of him as a person of color suddenly having a lot of influence what you're able to do what you're scared to do with that voice looking at the example of other people who have taken stands like i think that's a very very interesting topic to deconstruct because i think that would be very powerful that for any person to hear about magic or michael being presented with a moment to really

do something because i'm sure they probably have regrets on some level, but you don't want to talk about it because it's messy or whatever. But my God, like after seeing, you know, reading this and thank you to the listeners who were pointing this out, just our own blind spots on this. It really is like shocking. Yeah. It's funny when I when I watch the OJ

doc, the one episode that I thought they should have included that they did not include was the episode about how sports sort of turns a blind eye to domestic abusers generally and like wouldn't it be cool if the Jordan doc had an episode I have not watched it yet I'm excited to watch it where they sort of dug in on like here are the ways in which the league fucked with everybody in the 90s and I've been hearing like snippets that that's kind of the three line with the Scottie Pippen stuff and things like that. But you do sort of wish these docs would sort of take one step back from the, you know, the personal narrative and be like, okay, here are the

structures that have failed these people as well. And just I don't know, I feel like it would give it additional resonance beyond the sort of person to person stories that you hear. I think that's like the ransom though for a producer of a doc series like this because the league is going to hold all that footage at gunpoint yeah and they're going to say you want game footage you better shut the fuck up about any short the fucking time of shortcomings of the league i will fucking you can this can be all spoken word it wouldn't be airing on espn if they had that kind of access if I feel like every once in a while it does happen but it's like it just needs to be a documentarian that has like a really good source to stuff who is willing

to who wants to fuck with the league but it's yeah there's there are like moments in in in any documentaries about like huge organizations where you're just like oh i bet that the director would have wanted to get more critical there but then miles like you're saying like that would mean that they couldn't use the footage they need to make the fucking thing in the first place right but i think it's for what it is i think as a snapshot very superficially and like or and even beneath the surface of like this entire saga i think is really interesting but yeah i think i mean i feel like perhaps there's an entire other documentary where you get very narrowly about the responsibilities

athletes have felt to speak out especially when they are you know like they're seen as leaders and like outsized figures to vulnerable communities some very superficial uh last notes on the documentary i just found out that it's still being made and i think michael jordan found out uh or saw some of it and saw that his eyes look like shit because now there are shots where his eyes don't look like shit uh for the first time so big development and also at one point he like his fashion is a real testament to what somebody who has 100% confidence in everything they do. It just goes with all their instincts. At one point, he's wearing a Mardi Gras bead necklace that's just black Mardi Gras beads.

And he's just rocking it with a t-shirt. So basically, he dresses like a four a t-shirt. So basically. Like 100% confident. He dresses like a four-year-old who dresses themselves. It is funny. It's very clear to me watching this doc that the producers or whoever was making the movie did not give any guidelines as to like recommended wear. Because there are some people in. I think like a Scottie Pippen's wearing a suit the whole time but but then like jordan's wearing whatever the fuck he shows up in

other it's like just if just if you're doing it just show up business casual you can't go wrong but everyone like some people overshoot it other people it's it's funny to watch i wonder if they had produced ever to be like okay mike could you wear like a shirt that isn't mesh this time? It merays on camera a bit. He's wearing a fucking rain slicker with a mesh marina and fucking T-Bus. And you're like, what is this outfit, sir? Kate, it's been a pleasure having you on the Daily Zeitgeist. Where can people find you and follow you?

Yeah, Twitter and Instagram, both the same at. It's at that Hagen girl, but girl is spelled like Riot Girl. So two R's instead of an I. Yeah. And I'm pretty active on Medium and Spotify as well. And is there a tweet or some other work of social media you've been enjoying? Yeah, I realized I picked a hard one to articulate because it uh needs not in order to understand it you need uh knowledge of a prior meme but that prior meme is uh the picture that many of us have seen of the white woman at the chalkboard with the insane baby names uh somebody photoshopped that this week to be grimes's tweet about uh her baby name with elon musk uh And that brought me a lot of joy.

Jamie, where can people find you? What's a tweet you've been enjoying? You can find me on Twitter, Jamie Loftus Help, Instagram, Jamie Carst Superstar. I'm going to recommend a video because we talked Space Jam. And every time Space Jam comes up, I go back and I rewatch

Josh Fadum's classic video space jam oh yes uh so just a signal boost to space space jam to one of my all-time favorite youtube videos ever i just it's the fucking best warmer brothers yeah warmer a dim warmer company it's just yeah it's the perfect video, so I'll recommend that. Didn't that come out as a Funny or Die exclusive when it first came out? Maybe. Yeah, it came out a couple years before Space Jam 2 was actually a thing. It's like five years old.

I just remember there was an added layer of absurdity where it was like an FOD release. It's so good. Miles, where can people find you? What's a tweet you've been enjoying? Twitter, Instagram, PlayStation Network, Miles of Grey, G-R-A-Y, also my other podcast, 420 Day Fiance, where we talk about

90 Day Fiance. Some tweets that I like. A few, my goodness. First one's from Tanya Newsome at Trondi Newman, past guest and co-host of Yo, Is This Racist? Her tweet is, love to cook, sick of dishes, need recipe using only

paper towels and maybe a hair dryer. That feels about right. There's another one from Hannah Goldfield at Hannah Goldfield. I'd like to apologize for a mean-spirited tweet I wrote about people's moms not being hot. It was a subtweet directed at someone I hate, who I now realize signed on to be the executive producer of my TV show. We regret the error.

And finally, this was a tweet that, my goodness, a Zeitgang member at Rainbow Treasure just tagged us in. that my goodness uh zeitgang member at rainbow treasure just tagged us in and it is a helicopter footage of a protest in clearwater florida um where people are protesting outside of a gym and to do that they're doing squats and push-ups in the street with signs outside it's i don't know god bless y'all you know honestly, I'm really praying for you. Chelsea Peretti retweeted that and was like, thus proving that you can work out anywhere and not just a very good point. Some tweets I've been enjoying. David Ehrlich tweeted, someone tell Michael Jordan the coronavirus said it was better

than him. That's one thing that is a subject of these episodes is how he uses petty spites and just absurd shit to motivate him in a way where it becomes repetitive and you get the

sense of how boring it must be to be inside his head. At one point, George Carl doesn't come over and say hi to him in a restaurant. And he uses that as motivation to destroy the supersonics in the finals. He's like,

I mean, we went to UNC together. I've seen him out golfing. He's not going to say hi to me. The guy was probably like, I don't want to disturb the most famous person in the world right now. I'll just let him be. Narcissism is an interesting thing, huh?

It's like deep. Yeah, he just was motivated to greatness by sheer pettiness. You're like, okay, that's fine. Yeah, and you realize that if you watch his Hall of Fame acceptance speech, he just goes through all of his petty grievances against everybody who's ever thought they were better than him for even a fleeting five-second period of a game.

It's wild. And he's like, now if you'll follow me to the grave site of a former high school rival basketball player who I will literally dunk on their grave. Also, I just checked Twitter and Teresa Lee, frequent guest

on Daily Zeitgeist, tweeted an hour ago, has anyone else noticed that birds in California are bolder than usual? I hear them all night like they're having crazy parties all the time. They have been louder. I will say they have been louder.

I'm actually going to tweet at you know who we need to tweet is Birds Rights Activist because Birds Rights Activist has their proverbial beak to the street. That's right. You can find me on Twitter at Jack underscore O'Brien. You can find us on Twitter at

Daily Zeitgeist. We're at The Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram. We have a Facebook fan page and a website, DailyZeitgeist.com, where we post our episodes and our footnotes, where we link off to the information that we talked about in today's episode, as well as the song we ride out on. Excuse me. I'm getting choked up like Michael. Oh, dirt.

I'm getting verklempt. Here's the topic. Duran Duran is neither a Duran nor a Duran. Talk amongst yourselves. Man, I miss coffee talk. What a sketch, huh? What a sketch. Miles, what are we going to ride out on today?

We are going to go out on a track, old Jurassic 5 song that I love from the album Quality Control. But this is the thing. If you're a big J5 fan, there was always a track where a new mark and cut chemist would get their own sort of instrumental DJ breaks sort of slapped together

mosaic track, and this is that track from the Quality Control album called Swing Set, and it's just got a bunch of great scratching, it's got a bunch of great little break beats in there. It's like if you ever DJ'd, you probably listened to the song 300 times and you could probably go oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, yeah

because you know all the scratches by heart. So enjoy this. It's upbeat. Start your week right. Keep it going. We love you all. Alright, The Daily's out, you guys. This is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows

that is going to do it for today we will be back this afternoon to tell you what's trending and we'll talk to you then bye Go! Go! Go! Go! Go! Go! Go! Go! Go!

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