The Daily Zeitgeist - The Art World's Way More Sexist Than You Think, Osama Bin Laden's Loose Change 11.3.17

Episode Date: November 3, 2017

In episode 20, Jack & Miles are joined by comedian Riley Silverman to discuss myths about trans people in the media, Osama Bin Laden's hard drive files, the women harassed by Trump, the lack of famous women artists, Trump's sleeping habits, & more Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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protege of Charles Manson. 26-year-old Lynette Fromm, nicknamed Squeaky. The other, a middle-aged housewife working undercover for the FBI. Identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore. The story of one strange and violent summer, this season on the new podcast, Rip Current. Hear episodes of Rip Current early and completely ad-free and receive exclusive bonus content by subscribing to i heart true crime plus only on apple podcasts hello the internet and welcome to season four episode five of the daily zeitgeist uh it's the season finale you guys and we are talking about novemberrd, 2017. My name is Jack O'Brien, a.k.a. Potatoes O'Brien. And I am joined, as always, by my co-host, Mr. Miles Gray. Yes, it's your boy Miles, a.k.a. Young Fuckery.

And we are thrilled to be joined in our third seat by a hilarious stand-up, a great writer, a fashion icon, Riley Silverman. Hello. Do I need an AKA as well, or is that just like your thing? Do you have one? I mean, no. On the spot. Hit me one. The next doctor.

Boom. Yeah. The next doctor. Perfect. I love it. Riley, what's something from your search history that you believe is revealing about who you are as a human being. I have been doing a deep dive into random flirtatious GIFs

because I am entering into a long-distance relationship with someone, and that's been the primary means of our flirting is GIFs. So it's a lot of very specific TV show references or emotional feelings in GIF form. And so I think my history is just full of weird GIFs. Nice. A lot of mary louise parker from the tv show weed drinking iced coffee it seems to be like the number one

gift set of our relationship what is that are y'all weeds fans uh well yeah and mary louise parker has this weird and we've like she and i both agreed on this has this weird like iconic status amongst like queer women even though she is very tragically heterosexual it seems but she's just been in a bunch of different queer like projects or adjacent to things and also was just she just has that kind of like vibe to her yeah so yeah there's something great about her and weeds in particular she just really like exudes a palpable sexuality yeah and then like they embraced it like all the flyers and all the flyers all the like posters and billboards were always her like half naked dominatrix right yeah wasn't she covered in like weed in one of them oh

yeah i remember that billboard barely covered if you ask me do you uh do you make your own gifts uh i don't know how and i i'm okay with that okay i i know it's really easy i've been told and like it's really easy a couple times i've wanted something in gift form and someone's kind of like arrogant about it like you could just make it. And I'm like, shh. For me, it feels like when someone's like, you could change your own oil. I'm like, you don't tell me how to live. Right? Right, right, right.

It's like, why would I do that when someone is already doing that somewhere? I just have to find it. These GIFs exist for a reason. I'm like, I don't want to have to track down the footage that I'm looking for to make the GIF. That's the thing. That would be harder for me than just hoping someone has the GIF. That makes me feel really sad because I sometimes go through painstaking lengths to make the right gif of like just very specific things that will that's really for an audience of one that should make you happy man you are making

love possible between two human beings like i guess if someone really wants like a very specific part of like one line tom sizemore said and saving private ryan as a gif that's how i express my that's actually how she and I got together. So that's actually wonderful that you did that. Oh, okay. I'm relieved. Yeah. Riley, what is something you believe to be overrated?

Something I believe to be overrated is the horror film Sleepaway Camp. I'm tired of hearing about it. I know we're out of Halloween now, but I'm tired of hearing cisgender people tell me how shocking the ending of Sleepaway Camp was. Yeah, transgender people exist. You can get over it. If you were a kid and you were shocked then, and you can remember just being shocked then, fine.

But it's 2017. We exist. Some women have penises. Get over it. I'm tired of hearing about it. So the ending of Sleepaway Camp, the big twist is a reveal that the villain was not a trans woman. Got it.

And it's part of an era of filmmaking that is kind of referred to as like trans panic which is essentially like this it's you got like you got your silence of the lambs you've got your dress to kill you've got even like ace ventura pet detective oh yeah there's a whole era of these movies where trans people or someone who is like a bad movie version of what a trans person is is presented as this like psychotic killer. And then it's like, oh, all trans people are disturbed and threatening to us and dangerous. And it really kind of contributes to a lot of the prejudice against us and violence against us. And it's also just like really like at this point, it's just it's done.

Stop doing it that way. Right. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I feel really sleep away. Camp is a movie that came out. Yeah, I was. i was no no it's like 80s like oh okay okay oh but now people are it's one of those ones that always comes up in

conversations about like horror movies with twist endings and the only twist is oh my gosh it was a boy like that's like bullshit it's like can we swear i just swear like you can't we we demand it um yeah you haven't hit your quota yet you You have about 13 more to do. Oh, it's going to happen. Don't worry about it. So I'll put one. One for every doctor. What's something you believe to be underrated? Joan Cusack.

Joan Cusack. Oh, I love Joan Cusack. I think Joan is a superior Cusack sibling. Yeah? Yeah. I've been having a lot of... I actually... I wasn't even sure this counted as underrated or overrated, but I think there's a point

where we collectively got over John Cusack and we haven't wanted to admit it as a culture. I think there was a point where he was got over John Cusack and we haven't wanted to admit it as a culture. I think there was a point where he was like the king of like a certain kind of movie. And I asked I asked today on Facebook about John Cusack. I was like, when do we get over him? He was like, we're not. And then I was like, name the last John Cusack movie you saw that you can name off top of your head that you were excited about. And they're always like Hot Tub Time Machine, which is like seven years ago or 2012. Kind of making fun of.

Yeah. Yeah. up time machine which is like seven years ago or 2012 kind of making fun of yeah yeah um yeah joan and you know joan is like a good utility character actress i think that she should be in more things and i think she's always people kind of forget how great she is in adam's family values as debbie yes that's like pretty much and then uh miss debbie debra anyway that's my favorite line when they go see uncle fester and she's completely taken over his mind. Yeah. Also, I had a mad crush on her when she was in the movie Toys. Yeah.

Toys is also, let's go ahead and put that in the underrated title. Toys is due for a renaissance. Like, it is such a weird, bizarre little movie. Have you ever seen it? I did when I was a child. It's got Dumbledore. It's got LL Cool J. It's got Robin Williams.

It's got Joe Cusack. It's like this bizarre, weird movie that's like a, and it kind of like pre, it predicts drones. Yeah. Like it basically. Like little kids, like being able to fight wars just from their, the safety and comfort of their video game share. Right.

I loved it too. And also I've mentioned this, this is a complete aside, but in, in toys, LL Cool J doesn't like his food touching. Yeah. And he says that a lot. It infected my mind as a kid, and that's why to this day I don't like salad on my plate with other things. If I have salad, it has to be on a separate plate. Thank you, LL Cool J.

Thank you, toys. Thank you, Junkie Zach. And you came in. When I came in, you were camouflaged as a couch. Exactly. And then I was like, what's up, Riley? And I ordered a mayonnaise sandwich. So things are really working out for us.

That is multiple toys references on this podcast. We are a toys podcast. Yeah, we are. All right. I'll take it. There's enough things happening in toys that I could probably do a podcast and spend each episode of 10 minutes of that movie. It is a bizarre.

Okay. That's all the toys. I'm sorry. And aesthetically, it was beautiful. The set design. I'm all about toys. Is that a Zemeckis movie? Let me look right now. You got it right in front of them. Yeah. Because I was just looking up Junkies X. No, it was Barry Levinson set design I'm just I'm all about toys that is a Mecha's movie let me look right now

you got it right in front of him yeah because I was just looking at Junkies X no Barry Levinson that makes sense that's a very Barry Levinson

kind of like twisted dark comedy vibe another occasionally great hot and cold director all right I believe that people both know you

Riley by now and know a lot about the movie toys by now so real quick before getting to the stories Riley by now and know a lot about the movie toys. So real quick before getting into the stories,

the daily zeitgeist, we are trying to take a sample of the ideas that are out there changing the world. Whether you're looking or not, we talk about the politics and the news. We also talk about movies and supermarket tabloids. So yeah, we're just trying to take the temperature of what's affecting the national shared consciousness. And before we get into it, Riley, we try to sample the zeitgeist, but sometimes we take

the opportunity to correct the zeitgeist. And you touched in your over-under on some trans myths, but are there any other trans myths that you didn't get to that are just annoying to you as a trans woman, like in terms of how trans people are treated or portrayed in movies, TV, etc.? Yeah, I think the big one still is this idea of that it's okay to cast a cis male actor to play a trans woman in a movie. That seems to be the biggest, most prevailing and still happening thing it feels like. And I think there's this myth that I think people still kind of see a trans woman as a man who wanted to become a woman as opposed to a woman who was born and misidentified as a man. as a man i think most people when they try to imagine themselves as trans or to understand the trans experience go oh i don't know what i would be like if i wanted to be the other gender but the way i think the better way to view what being trans is like is imagine you are the gender you are right now but no one believes you or like no one sees it but you right that's what being trans

is like like i've always identified i've always seen myself as a girl as a woman my whole life and as a kid people saw me as a boy so it was like that frustrating like but how's that how does no one else see this like that's very different than like going boy i would sure like to be a girl if that makes sense so that going into casting when you keep casting men to play trans women you're basically casting men to play women right and so then there's always this like um argument about it where people will say something like well any actress will play any role and like it only seems to get applied to that particular kind of topic but i think that like that's it still kind of predicates up on the idea that being trans is a costume you can put on and like you would never unless you were trying to make a specific point about identity or gender you would never cast a cis man to play a cis woman in something unless you're doing something like

louis anderson on baskets where it's like kind of meant to mean something or be like an it's like kind of just kind of like a bit of like a storytelling thing happening with that right you you wouldn't just randomly do that so it's it's got to be just kind of like a bit of like a storytelling thing happening with that. Right. You wouldn't just randomly do that. So it's got to be viewed more like that. And I think that's the number one issue because what happens with that is then people see, let's say, Jared Leto or Eddie Redmayne playing a trans woman in something. And then they go, yeah. And so then when they – like people would say, for instance, date a trans woman. And then like other people find out because i um typically the

argument about trans women is like this like and like why we get murdered at higher rates is this idea that we are tricking people into thinking that we're women and then they like i found out used to be a guy like that's that's why that point of view is so destructive right because it implies that that way of a history that we're hiding as opposed to just being ourselves and our Right. I don't want my friends to think that I'm dating Dallas Buyers Club and that kind of thing. And that can lead to murders and violence against us and especially trans women of color who are usually much more marginalized by society. And this is – I know I laugh, right? No, but it's very valuable I think and really – yeah, that is something that hadn't totally occurred to me. The whole thing of like – I don't think men really do kill trans women when they find out that we're trans like the portrayal is.

I think they kill us when their friends find out that we're trans. I think it's less their discovery of us and more the shame of being caught, unquote right well that's interesting because i feel like even growing up right like on like the shitty talk shows like jerry springer you would constantly see that happen where yeah a woman would reveal their gender identity and then the the dude just flips out yeah right and i think that yeah that that that that exact thing sort of embodies that sort of same sentiment of of just sort of like oh well now i'm on the show knowing so to reaffirm my masculinity i'm gonna what the fuck? You know what I mean? You know what's funny is when I was still a young and closeted comic living in Ohio, I had some friends who ended up getting booked to do a segment on the Jerry Springer show,

and it was fake. Right. And they just cast people to play the people that were on the thing, and they actually wanted me to play a young man who found out that his girlfriend, he was cheating on his other girlfriend, was trans. And I'm like, oh, my God. I'm so glad i didn't go do that like i'm so glad i like i just i had a feeling that driving to chicago to do the jerry springer show wasn't the best thing to do for my career right and i'm like to this day i'm like i'm so glad that there's like not footage of me

somewhere right yeah i'm like what being a point yeah exactly um well this has been very enlightening uh mostly that uh the j Jerry Springer show is fake. I never could have seen that coming. Right. Shocker. People are surprised. Also, I mean, if you've ever seen an actual fistfight, that's not how people fight. Right.

Right. And just really quickly, I mean, you mentioned how high the murder rate is for trans people. high the murder rate is for trans people that's something that when i when i found out that i mean it's basically the most dangerous demographic to be essentially yeah we have the highest murder rates and we have one of the highest suicide rates and that's the thing that gets used against us which is really unfair and like really destructive people try to use our suicide rates against us to like imply that we're mentally ill and disturbed. But it's more that we have high suicide rates because we're so frequently persecuted by society. I remember somebody who was making the argument trying to imply that we were disturbed was like, oh, it's the same rates as Holocaust survivors.

And I'm like, well, that's not a mentally ill group. The Holocaust survivors survived the Holocaust. Yeah. That's your baseline. Then look at what was happening to them. Jesus's happening to us like it just uh it's it's really important to bring us up right now because uh november is actually transgender awareness month because we actually do on november 20th uh around the world there's international trans day of remembrance and what we do is we literally just read the names of our community members and our family members who have been murdered in the last year and it's like just somber and like really powerful and so if you if you're a person who

is interested in being like a good ally to the trans community or like really kind of understanding the weight of what we face every every day uh find out when one of these vigils is happening in your town like like in hollywood we do it at the west hollywood library and there's lots of security so just don't be don't come if you want to be a dick. But yeah, and march with us. We would like to have support and have people know that we're not alone in this. That's awesome. Thanks.

I'll be funny from now on. All right. Us too. Promise. So let's move on to the stories uh real quick before our break uh we wanted to mention that osama bin laden's computer files were released onto the internet amazing and uh we were able to see the file names and uh they they were occasionally really funny um oh my. There was a lot of crocheting videos. There were a lot of children's movies, Ants, Ice Age, Ice Age, Dawn of the Dinosaurs and Cars.

Ants feels especially fun to me because, well, he's not as fun anymore, but Woody Allen is the lead in that movie. So I love the idea that Bin Laden is watching this movie that's like a very stereotypical Jewish man. Obviously, we'll get to Woody Allen a little bit later, but yeah. We always do. We always do get to Woody Allen a little later. Some of the crocheting videos, The Art of Crochet, How to Crochet a Basket, Stripe Crochet Beanie Cap, and Crochet Star. Probably the kind of most mind-bending file that was on his hard drive was he had Loose Change, the 9-11 truther conspiracy doc. Yeah, requisite viewing for any stoner in college.

Right. It's like, whoa, what if, bruh? for any stoner in college right like whoa what if bruh right which it's must have been like a way more extreme version of how chuck berry must have felt when he watched back to the future for the first time just him seeing someone else take credit for his his damn work um and i mean some people are saying that uh you know a lot of this could have been of children who were with him in the compound or his wives, uh, or, you know, any of the people who are in there. Uh, but some of it was like erotica.

There was one file called ass dot gif, I believe, uh, many S's and oh there's just a gif too poor guy uh it's actually just mary louise parker drinking iced coffee though exactly uh you just gotta search ass gif and see what's out there uh and there was also 8-bit uh video games that were like adult video games from back in the 80s. Like pixelated nude women where you just do the most menial task, like draw around to reveal this non-human woman.

Right. It's just like Larry, that was the big 8-bit porn game when we were... Do you remember that game? It was like King's Quest, but getting laid. Exactly. It just shows you man, it must have been boring as fuck to be in that compound hiding right i wonder if like just if the crocheting videos if i don't know maybe bin laden was really trying to step up his crochet game maybe it's what he thought how did they make those vests

they have all those vests and those yeah little known fact those are all homespun by bin laden himself uh and like yeah i think it's just funny like there was final fantasy games so there's They have all those vests and those, yeah. Little known fact. Those are all homespun by Bin Laden himself. And, like, yeah, I think it's just funny. Like, there was Final Fantasy games. So there was something for everyone. If you like porn, you're a 9-11 truther. We're all finding that maybe we have something in common with Osama. Yeah.

It's just funny to think that when he was watching all those documentaries, wondering, like, where laden was uh he knew himself that the answer was uh in pakistan masturbating to eight-bit representations of naked women it's a good life it's a good life i guess it's a it's a proud life uh all right we're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back this summer the nation watched as the republican nominee for president was the target of two assassination attempts, separated by two months. These events were mirrored nearly 50 years ago when President Gerald Ford faced two attempts on his life in less than three weeks. President Gerald R. Ford came stunningly close to being the victim of an assassin today. And these are the only two times we know of that a woman has tried to assassinate a U.S. president. One was the protege of infamous cult leader Charles Manson. I always felt like Lynette was

kind of his right-hand woman. The other, a middle-aged housewife working undercover for the FBI in a violent revolutionary underground. Identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore. The story of one strange and violent summer. This is Rip Current, available now with new episodes every Thursday. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Substance use disorder and addiction is so isolating. And so as a black woman in recovery,

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No, babe, that's taken. We're in our own world, remember? Right. In our own world, we're two space cadets. And totally normal humans. Sure, remember? Right. In our own world, we're two space cadets and totally normal humans. Sure, totally normal humans. Embark on a journey across the stars, discovering the wonders

of the universe one episode at a time. We'll talk about life, love, laughter, and why you should never argue with your co-pilot. Especially when she's always right. Right. And if we hit turbulence, just blame it on Mercury retrograde. Or Emily's questionable

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My Cultura podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't worry, we promise to avoid any black holes. Most of the time. And we're back. So I wanted to talk a little bit about what's being called the Weinstein effect.

sort of the spreading realization that famous men, a lot of famous men are fucking creeps. We've got Spacey Ratner, Toback Hoffman, Dustin Hoffman, apparently on a TV movie. Did we talk about that yesterday on a TV movie in 1985? Sexually harassed a 17-year-old young woman. Jeremy Piven, Price from Amazon, Halpern, who was the head of politics at ABC News, and George H.W. Bush, even though he was brought out at the Houston Astros. Was it like Game 3 or something?

Yeah, one of them throughout the first pitch. They were still cool with them. Yeah. Just like they were still cool with that. Well, Gurriel gave them a standing ovation after he did that little slanty eye gesture. That was cool. I'm not bitter. But, yeah.

Cool, Houston. Nice work. So, yeah. It seems like there's never been a time when the world was more receptive to women calling out powerful men who've abused them. But nobody's really talking about the most powerful man, Donald Trump, unless you count the people in Donald Jr.'s mentions every time he gloats about a new Hollywood bigwig getting named. But yeah, Trump's accusers have told the New York Times this week that they feel like the country's forgotten them and they have good reason to feel that way. And it's probably worth just reminding people what he's been accused of, kissing a Miss USA pageant competitor on the mouth in 1997 when she was not looking for that.

Groping a fellow passenger on a flight several decades ago, kissing a receptionist working in Trump Tower in 2005, groping a contestant on The Apprentice in 2007, and then we have him bragging about how he grabs women by the pussy, and he doesn't even have to ask, because when you're a star, they just let you do it on tape. So, yeah, I don't know. It is interesting that he is apparently not, like this isn't even being brought up really, uh, for the most part, as people are talking about these,

the Hollywood elites who are, uh, being kind of taken down. Well, it's, you know, Weinstein goes down because his entire industry rejected him. They said,

yo, fuck that. This is bullshit. We can't have you be a part of this. So that's how Weinstein has to actually, that's, he actually experiences some form of a rejection or punishment. Trump, on the other hand, when that grab him by the pussy tape came out, there were maybe a couple people who dropped their endorsements of him, but there was no across the board

GOP saying, yo, this is not cool. We're not about this. Get rid of them. Because if you really think about it, if they did that, Hillary Clinton would have won. Most likely, considering how narrowly Trump won. If the GOP really came out and said, you know, this is not what the party is about. We can't have someone like this representing us, especially not to be president. That would have been a real problem for them. And I think it also shows like partisanship has kind of a lot to do with why that is, because even now, Republicans are still very reluctant to call Trump out for any number of things that he's done. outgoing like congressmen and senators those seem to be the only people who because they're not they're not affected by whether or not the gop power structure crumbles they're just now they're

willing to say something do you think it's something too about liberal groups being more willing to kind of eat or like there's always the argument that liberals like will devour own tails when it comes to like social justice things like that so i wonder that's part of it like i think that liberals are much more willing to be publicly divisive amongst ourselves. And so with someone like Weinstein or whatever, no matter how much money he's donated to our candidates or whatever, we're still like, hey, we will tear down our idols all the time. because we can't rally behind a common figure. I always say that Republicans or conservatives will rally behind the 10% of things they do agree on, whereas liberals, we will always tear each other apart by the 10% we don't agree on. And that's what I saw last year at the election too, even outside of the sexual harassment stuff. Right. Yeah, and I do wonder – that's a really good point. Yeah, and I do wonder – that's a really good point. And I also wonder if – like I read this article that was really sort of deep dive into a single community in Colorado and sort of how the 2016 election went down there.

And one of the most surprising things was there was this group of women called Women telling them how they were supposed to feel about, you know, sexual politics. fatigue over liberal outrage like a fiddle and so he continually while in office and even beforehand would say inflammatory things that people would get up in arms about oftentimes very rightfully so but because it happens so often he can do it so frequently and on so many topics that everybody who reacts to it people who who have any sort of inclination of like oh i'm tired of the pc police or whatever can go yeah we're sick of hearing about it we're tired of and so they almost like revel in the way that he baits us and the way that he taunts us and it's this frustrating thing as a person who cares about social justice or person who cares about like rights and equality of like well we can't just let things go right but we also i don't know yet how we even react to stuff without also then making it worse for us like it's such a frustrating game of chess and and yeah it's easy to do because whether it's

allegations of sexual uh assault or obstruction of justice or whatever it is it's just another thing again that people it's easy if you are trump supporters just say oh oh, well, that's just another thing they're trying to like. What is it this week? What's the big Trump complaint this week? And it's easy to just to dismiss it like outright. And I think, again, because like the sort of partisan angle of it all, too, it's hard to to sort of embrace that or to embrace the truth and say, oh, this is this is really wrong. And if you also look like the women who supported Trump, I think he got 61% of the white women without college degree vote. And that is a group who just if you look at polling, like on a continuum, they're growing more conservative in the in recent years. So to even have like,

you know, to have that group of women as your supporter base, that's not going to do much for him to be held to any any form of anything that resembles accountability. Didn't Trump get most of the white women? 53% of white women. 53% of white women. White women overall. Yeah, of overall. And 61% of white women without college degrees. And the one without college degrees is the one that is continually getting more conservative. And again, I think even now we don't talk about the misconduct after the fact because at the end of the day, he was elected president. And so that basically America co-signed that and said, well, I guess that's not a problem because it was enough for him to become president.

Yeah, and a lot of the stuff that was being rallied against him got dropped, like the case, the underage assault case that was was that was like being built up and like it was going to court. And then he got elected. I don't think anyone thought he was going to win. And so he had like court dates set. And then the day he was elected, then like suddenly that disappeared because the victim didn't want to come forward anymore. Right. I should have said that those examples are just the examples that people are still willing to kind of accuse him of

um and that's kind of the thing with the weinstein weinstein case too is that weinstein's case it's not like it just happened overnight like ronan farrow had like a like a months and months long investigation into this that he could come forward and i think like that's the problem too with the trump stuff is like we have these scattered reports to come forward. We don't have anybody who's just going like, here are all the things that we need to say, you know? Right. And I guess during the election, many people did come out to accuse Trump of sexual harassment. And at the time, at every rally, he's like, oh, these people are lying. They're just trying to smear me for the campaign.

And it was it wasn't taken seriously because if again, from a partisan angle, it just seems like, oh, it's like a smear. Like if you believe in the conspiratorialists, like, oh, would they pay to say this? This week is the mentality of some people who were so dismissive of these accusations. Yeah. And he plays in those conspiracy theories and things all the time. So, yeah. And I mean, I guess just to play devil's advocate, the whole country kind of by the end of the Lewinsky scandal was kind of ready to move on. And we're like, yeah, OK, we get it. He got a blowjob from an intern. You know, let's move on. And he's doing a good job in the economy strong when when it was a Democrat. That scandal just I talked about how the movie American Beauty, when I first saw it, I was an adolescent kid.

And so it wasn't as creepy to me because I was younger than the high school girl that Kevin Spacey was lusting after. The same thing with the Lewinsky affair. She was like 22 or something that you know someone was talking about recently on a facebook thread that i was in and about how different i think we would have viewed that entire affair in 2017 versus in the mid 90s when it happened because to think about how villainized monica lewinsky was by the culture when she really was just a young kid who was like seduced by her very very very powerful boss right and like how like you know lewinsky has said that like for a long time like her mom wouldn't let her close the door while she's going to the bathroom because she's afraid

she would kill herself like it was like that she was being tormented by the media and just like being viciously bullied all the time and nowadays i think that if she came forward she would get at least a little bit more respect or at least have a camp that was way more on her side than before you'd really hope so you know i mean who knows but right well yeah and i think again too with the fact that with trump being elected president that that only reaffirms his worldview that yeah well look i can do that it's not a problem and you can see that in how he's like rolling back obama era sexual assault guidelines or transgender bans and things like that getting elected is like the

worst thing for someone who's done something the kinds of accusations he has facing him and yet been being elected well like there's no reason for you to think that there's anything wrong with anything you've done yeah he thinks that he's been proven completely right right it's almost a mandate he won on a or because the electoral college he didn't win by popular vote but like he doesn't really seem to really want to believe that or understand that and so he in his mind thinks like i am on the pulse of the american people and they believe what i believe and or at least that's what he's telling himself so i want to talk about uh one of these accusations that uh is isn't getting as many headlines because the person's not that famous. But the publisher of the magazine Art Forum, his name is Knight Landisman, is being accused of sexually harassing a young woman named Amanda Schmidt.

a young woman named Amanda Schmidt. And the details are really pretty gross and horrifying. And I don't know. So Art Forum is apparently the magazine in the art world. It's kind of like where people go to decide if an artist is worth a damn. And I think I assumed that the art world was progressive when it comes to sexual politics, just based on the content of what cutting-edge avant-garde art is about. And yeah, I thought it was all like maud from Big Lebowski. And, you know, it turns out it's still got a lot of problems. This feminist critique of art history called Why Haven't There Been Any Great Women Artists? And it's just this amazing essay that examines the history of sexism and the history of art. The writer talks about all the different ways that institutionalized sexism made it so that women couldn't be considered great, couldn't practice the art form.

They weren't allowed to paint nude models because it was deemed unladylike. Just excelling at a single skill was deemed unladylike. Parents weren't going to let their daughters be painters. So she just makes this argument that, you know, that question, which I think was being asked more when she wrote it. She wrote the essay in 1971, which I probably should have said up. OK. Yeah. I thought you were saying that this guy who got to step down was the one who published it.

Like, no. Well, I was going to say there's plenty of examples of monstrous men who have been vocally in support of feminism until they get caught being a harasser. Right. So I guess it's just and actually the editor inchief of the magazine has stepped down. It is a woman and she just was like, I can't support this magazine, this publication anymore. Oh, I see. like to take another look at the art world and you know all the ways that even though it is sort of this cutting edge cultural thing uh you know it has been very dominated by white men just as much as you know other industries and like wall street and shit like that

um you know there there's this group called the gorilla girls and they've been working sort of anonymously for years to basically expose uh as they say in their in their like mission statement like gender and ethnic bias as well as corruption and everything from politics art film pop culture so one of the campaigns they did was throwing up stickers about the lack of one-person exhibitions that were put on by female artists in New York. So in 1985, the Guggenheim didn't have any. The Metropolitan didn't have any. The Modern had one. And the Whitney didn't have any.

And then in 2015, in terms of women who were having one-person exhibitions in the top New York City museums, the Guggenenheim had one the metropolitan had one the modern had two and the whitney had one so even in what is that 30 years that is incremental change you know my dad is an artist which is why i'm sort of waxing on about this and and he's and he's a he's a black man so he's sort of had to confront the art world head-on and things like this uh know, the power is still concentrated in men's hands. But also a lot of the collectors, they still value men's work by far. And essentially collectors are the ones that assign the value to art because they're telling you what they think this piece is worth paying for. And now in the last 20 years, there are more female curators, and that's a step in the direction. But there's still very much a huge problem of representation like within the art world.

Um, and I guess, you know, who knows what it's going to take to break that. And I think even when you think about in the article and ask like, who are the great women artists? I'm not a huge art expert, but if, if you asked me to say, name an artist, I would probably say a male artist immediately, you know, or even if you asked young kids, they name an artist, I would probably say a male artist immediately. Or even if you asked young kids, they'd say like Shepard Fairey or Banksy or something like that. If you said, name a prolific female artist, I would have trouble. I would say Georgia O'Keeffe. And then I would begin really having to think.

Then I couldn't just list them down like that. And I think that is also very indicative of kind of what even the people who might not be totally into the art scene, that, you know, many of the richest people in the world are still white men is probably has a huge effect on that. I was gonna say that the other thing is, too, is not unlike, like comedy or or any sort of entertainment kind of thing. A lot of it is who you you know and who knows you to bring you into the fold and that tends to be people tend to have this like intrinsic bias about like there's a term for it but basically like oh i know these guys so i'm going to bring them in you know and that like that's like there was an article just came out this week about the lack of people of color especially women of color in the writer's room in television And how I think right now it was something like less than 4% of writers for TV shows are people of color. And how like on Hulu, of all of Hulu's original series, not a single writer is a person of color. And that's like a huge, huge gap in representation.

And it's because so much of TV – again, industry you would think from service value is super liberal and super inclusive. But when you actually look at the numbers, those don't hold up. Right. Because like art, it has gatekeepers that you have to get past. And I guess all industries have gatekeepers. Some are just easier to get through the gates than others. TV and movies especially, you need a shitload of money to make those things. movies especially like you need a shitload of money to make those things and so unless you're one of like an anomaly of a person who can start on youtube completely self-started and then and

just by virtue of your audience being so big they pull you into the mainstream like isa ray has yeah exactly uh great we're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back. This summer, the nation watched as the Republican nominee for president was the target of two assassination attempts separated by two months. These events were mirrored nearly 50 years ago when President Gerald Ford faced two attempts on his life in less than three weeks. President Gerald R. Ford came stunningly close to being the victim of an assassin today. And these are the only two times we know of that a woman has tried to assassinate a U.S. president. One was the protege of infamous cult leader Charles Manson.

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When you think of Mexican culture, you think of avocado, mariachi, delicious cuisine, and of course, Lucha Libre. It doesn't get more Mexican than this. Lucha Libre is known globally because it is much more than just a sport and much more than just entertainment. Lucha Libre is a type of storytelling. It's a dance.

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This is Lucha Libre Behind the Mask. Listen to Lucha Libre Behind the Mask as part of My Cultura Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you stream podcasts. And we're back. And we should acknowledge that the three of us are not, like, experts on art by any means.

Our super producer, Nick Stumpf, pointed out that there is a great artist named Louise Bourgeois. And she actually came around, like, around the time of Jackson Pollock and Mark Rothko and she thought that she pointed out that surrealists made women the object of their art and she was trying to make women the subject of art but that is

that's a big change and I didn't realize how big a change it was before that conversation so get off my back, Nick. I mean, male gaze as a term comes from from art. Right. Exactly. And TV and movies.

Oh, show. So in our remaining time, I wanted to talk about Donald Trump's sleep schedule. Yes. Trump's sleep schedule, you guys. And just sleep in general, because so he brags constantly about only needing four hours of sleep a night, which I guess Margaret Thatcher was the same way. She said she only needed four hours of sleep a night. I think Obama was, too. I think that was something that came out during his presidency.

Oh, really? Yeah. hours of sleep a night. I think Obama was too. I think that was something that came out during his presidency. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, I think a lot of more effective presidents don't get that much sleep, but Trump like forever has said like, wow, he barely needs that much sleep.

But if you look at his tweets before people started taking his phone away, when he like left the Oval Office at night, went up to bed. He did send out some of his more erratic, I guess you could say, tweets in the middle of the night. There was also the, so there was, first of all, the despite the constant negative press of Feifei tweet that came out in the middle of the night. There was, did Crooked Hillary help Disgusting check out sex tape and passed Alicia M. become a U.S. citizen so she could use her in the debate? And, you know, a bunch of, you know, a bunch of hateful stuff about Megyn Kelly.

And, you know, a bunch of, you know, a bunch of hateful stuff about Megyn Kelly. And, you know, he just a lot a lot of his most famous Twitter tirades from during the election came. And afterwards, too. because it seems like, I don't know, I wonder what, like, if there's something about, you know, the fact that he doesn't sleep is strange. Like, he's sort of almost this alternate type of person who, like, lives by this alternate sleep schedule. And there are, like, for instance, there's a type of i guess most dolphins uh but they're in particular these spinner dolphins that uh i saw when i went to hawaii back in june uh i saw like we were out on a boat and these dolphins came up and were like playing and uh you know, swimming alongside the boat. And the captain of the boat was like, yeah, they're asleep, actually.

They just never sleep like we do because they would get eaten or drown. So they sleep with like one part of their brain at a time. I don't know. Experts on human sleep talk about how, you know, you don't fall 100 percent to sleep and then like wake up 100 percent. There are moments of like partial sleep. Parts of the brain can go offline for periods of a few seconds to 30 seconds. There are things called micro sleep where you just slip up and, you know, they've actually studied people who are like train engineers and found that it at all and then swear up and down that they were awake the whole time. So I don't know. It's just worrying to me to think about this idea that we have a guy who 24 hours a day has access to a button that can end the world. And, you know, at night he appears to become this different sort of less responsible version, which is tough to become like more erratic and less responsible. But, you know, this guy who like never sleeps and it i don't know that people have studied that much these people who only need four hours of sleep a night but um i also wonder too if he actually has that condition or if he saw it somewhere and

thought that's impressive so he makes himself only sleep four hours so he can brag about it and his body's like raggedly going, what are you doing to us? Right. Well, it could explain like when he goes off prompter in speeches and he just starts doing his Trump freestyle jazz, just like stream of consciousness talking like in some fugue state the entire time. point to different behaviors as being similar to dementia and lack of sleep is really connected to Alzheimer's. And it's a like two kind of symbiotic relationship or whatever the bad version of symbiotic is where parasitic relationship where Alzheimer's both causes and is caused by lack of sleep. And so it's, you know, just a vicious cycle. So I don't know. I don't have any solutions to it, but it's just something, I guess, to keep an eye on,

like the timestamps on his tweets and, you know, General Kelly, if you're listening, like I know you do, maybe just keep an eye on him. The biggest problem with Trump is the lack of compromise with the sleeping. So General Kelly can come in and compromise his sleep better. Right, right. Exactly. I can't imagine anyone who hates his presidency more than him. That's the thing that's weird about it. Like, I just, I don't, like, at this point, I'm like, how bad is your ego that you just need to stay here?

Because you clearly don't want to be here. You're mad at at this point, I'm like, how bad is your ego that you just need to stay here? Because you clearly don't want to be here. You're mad at everything all the time. It's, ah. And the answer is, so bad. His ego is so bad.

Yeah. Riley, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me. This was a lot of fun. Where can people follow you? On Twitter,

I am at Riley J. Silverman. And if you go on Facebook, I have a Facebook page, Rowley Silverman. And if you go on Facebook, I have a Facebook page, Riley Silverman. And I'm also Riley Silverman on Instagram. And I am the head writer for a podcast called International Waters on the Max Fund Network. And I'm a writer for Sci-Fi Wire's fangirls page. Awesome. That sounds, those all sound wonderful.

Miles, where can people find you? You can find me on Twitter and Instagram at Miles of Grey. And, you know shout out to dan o'brien who corrected me the other day i said uh attorney generals uh and i yes i am aware dan it is attorneys general but in in the thick of it you just you just don't know what to say sometimes my favorite one of that is people who get mad when you call it whopper juniors instead of whopp. And I'm like, if you're that bad at foul grammar, you shouldn't be meeting a purge you're gonna get with. That is fucking awesome. Yeah, it's just, like, attorneys general is not,

it's just fun to say, and so, like, grammar nerds just like to... No, and I knew, exactly, and I know that, and I felt small when I got called out, so you won this time down. You can follow me at jack underscore O-B-R-I-E-N, jack underscore O'Brien. You can follow me at Jack underscore O-B-R-I-E-N. Jack underscore O'Brien. You can follow us at The Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram.

And you can follow us on Twitter at Daily Zeitgeist. You can go to our webpage, DailyZeitgeist.com, for some footnotes. Footnotes! Are you ready for some footnotes? That was fun. You can have that. Thank you. Just drop me singing that in every episode. We have that isolated.

Yeah, drop. We have links to every fact that we've cited, and we won't have links to the stuff we made up. So, that's how, tell the difference. Now, most of what we said is factual or we intended it to be. And so you can find all sourcing for all of the factual information we talked about today.

That's going to do it for today. And we'll be back Monday with episode one of season five. Have a great weekend, everyone. Bye. In California, during the summer of 1975, within the span of 17 days and less than 90 miles, two women did something no other woman had done before. Tried to assassinate the President of the United States. One was the protege of Charles Manson. 26-year-old Lynette

Fromm, nicknamed Squeaky. The other, a middle-aged housewife working undercover for the FBI. Identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore. The story of one strange and violent summer, this season on the new podcast, Rip Current. Hear episodes of Rip Current early and completely ad-free and receive exclusive bonus content by subscribing to iHeartTrue Crime Plus only on Apple Podcasts. Captain's Log, Stardate 2024. We're floating somewhere in the cosmos, but we've lost our map.

Yeah, because you refuse to ask for directions. It's Space Gem, there are no roads. Good point. So where are we headed? Into the unknown, of course. Join us on In Our Own World as we uncover hidden truths, navigate the depths of culture, identity, and the human spirit. With a hint of mischief. One episode at a time.

Buckle up and listen to In Our Own World on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust us. It's out of this world. How do you feel about biscuits? Hi, I'm Akilah Hughes, and I'm so excited about my new podcast, Rebel Spirit, where I head back to my hometown in Kentucky and try to convince my high school to change their racist mascot, the Rebels, into something everyone in the South loves, the biscuits. I was a lady rebel. Like, what does that even mean? It's right here in black and white in print.

They lie. It's bigger than a flag or mascot. Listen to Rebel Spirit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's so much beauty in Mexican culture. Like mariachis, delicious cuisine, and even lucha libre. Join us for the new podcast, Lucha Libre. Join us for the new podcast Lucha Libre Behind the Mask, a 12-episode podcast in both

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