The Daily Zeitgeist - The Aziz Ansari Controversy, Hawaii’s Near Death Experience 1.16.18

Episode Date: January 17, 2018

In episode 64, Jack & Miles are joined by comedian Teresa Lee to discuss the Hawaii Missile Alert, Aziz Ansari and the issue of consent, Trump paying off a porn star, a new sexist edit of Star Wars, & more. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. What was that? That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. Can Kay trust her sister or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing.

They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts what happens when a professional football player's career ends and the applause fades and the screaming fans move on i am going to share my journey of how i went from christianity to now a hebrew israelite for some former NFL players, a new faith provides answers. You mix homesteading with guns and church. Voila! You got straight away. They try to save everybody.

Listen to Spiraled on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In California during the summer of 1975, within the span of 17 days and less than 90 miles, two women did something no other woman had done before, try to assassinate the president of the United States. One was the protege of Charles Manson. 26-year-old Lynette Fromm, nickname Squeaky. The other, a middle-aged housewife working undercover for the FBI. Identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore.

The story of one strange and violent summer this season on the new podcast Rip Current. Hear episodes of Rip Current early and completely ad-free and receive exclusive

bonus content by subscribing to iHeart True Crime Plus only on Apple Podcasts. There's so much beauty in Mexican culture like mariachis, delicious cuisine,

and even lucha libre. Join us cuisine, and even Lucha Libre. Join us for the new podcast, Lucha Libre Behind the Mask, a 12-episode podcast in both English and Spanish about the history and cultural richness of Lucha Libre. And I'm your host, Santos Escobar, emperor of Lucha Libre and a WWE superstar. Listen to Lucha Lib libre behind the mask on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you stream podcasts hello the internet and welcome to season 14 episode 1 of das dailies hi guys yeah january 16th 2018 my name is jack o'brien aka little ditty about jack o'brien courtesy of andrew thomas and i am joined by my co-host

Mr. Miles Gray I don't know what to say since you sang but because of the events of the weekend I'm gonna have to say it's in your head Zom Gray Zom Gray Zom Gray

Thank you. I thought that was going to keep going. No, no. That was for the homie, Dolores O'Riordan. I know. RIP. Rest in power. You died suddenly, very tragically. And if you're anybody who was conscious in the 90s, there's no way you can say the Cranberries was a bad band because pivotal.

They gave us a lot. They were important. And she is amazing. Many emotional moments when I was a like 13 year old we're had with with the cranberries and we are thrilled to be joined in our third seat by the hilarious comedian and writer theresa lee hey hello hi you guys always have such cool like intros and nicknames and i was trying to think of one but I can't. Come on, here, let's... It's so, like, you know, there's always a stream of like,

it's me, I'm the doctor of the nurses. And I'm just like, I'm the... I'm Larissa T. That's her Twitter handle. I don't have... Teresa,

what's something from your search history that is revealing about who you are? Oh, I recently searched, can you give a cat dog food? Someone's a good cat. Can you? That's a good question. Well, I don't have a cat, full disclaimer, but I have a dog and dog food. That's right.

There was a stray cat outside my door, and it was cold and rainy, the cat was a kitten and it looked sad and it kept following me like it wouldn't let me in so i was like maybe maybe it's hungry but i don't have cat food right i was like oh i have dog food can i eat it and they can't so oh they can't eat dog food no but they can eat eggs so i made the cat eggs but then she ran away because my dog barked at her so i think she's fine well we'll see wait so wait you can't give wait why can't you give a cat dog food it had the internet said you can't it said it's not digestible for them oh shit it's processed for them have you miles just miles looks like something who's been giving cats some dog food no full disclosure right so i have I have two cats and a dog.

And the other day, I make all their food at the same time. And they know it's like it's feeding time. And in a rush, I threw the cat – I threw the dog food. They all use the same bowl. Or not the same bowl, but the same kind of bowl. I put the cat food in front of the dog and the dog food in front of the cat. And I only realized like like later or my girlfriend did and was like why did you give the cat dog feels like oh shit and the cat really didn't eat much

of it so maybe that's why because even the cat was like no i'm not really fucking with this even though it's like i have to go to i give like my dog raw dog food because he's bad allergies so i thought maybe they would respect it so now i didn't know maybe if it's raw it's okay also i feel like your pets are um like x-men pets because didn't your dog eat a bunch of chocolate? Hey, hey, hey. Look, why am I on trial? The chocolate thing is – And he was fine.

He was fine. Wait, how did you know about that? My dog has eaten like huge packages of chocolate and been fine. My dog has an iron stomach. Well, because the thing is, as I read in a panic Google search, it's clearly – the darker the chocolate, the more dangerous. As I read in a panic Google search, it's clearly – the darker the chocolate, the more dangerous. And like baker's chocolate I think is the most fatal because it's just like – but milk chocolate and white chocolate. Brownies are really bad.

Chocolate cake are really bad. Like anything you're baking as baker's chocolate would imply. It's like a natural state of it basically. So we're fine. We're all good pet owners here. Also coffee. You shouldn't give them coffee. Is that toxic? Yeah.

Both babies and dogs I'm told is – yeah. All right. Good to know give them coffee. Is that toxic? Yeah. Like both babies and dogs. I'm told is yeah. All right. Good to know for all the parents that were wondering out there, don't give your babies coffee. My, uh, my friend has two cats and like my dog, it just exists to eat human food. Like it is not, it does not come off as very intelligent. I brought him to the office a couple of times and, uh, you guys can attest to the fact that he doesn't come off as very intelligent. I brought him to the office a couple times, and you guys can attest to the fact that he doesn't come off as, like, you know, a very humanly intelligent dog. He just kind of sits there and snores while he's awake. But he becomes, like, a genius when it comes to getting food.

So I expected this from dogs, but I went over to my friend's house who had cats, and their cat like jumped up on the counter and like took a whole like turkey in its mouth. I was like right. I'm like just fucking ate the whole crazy. My cat had no idea. Tried to eat a loaf of Wonder Bread. Oh, really? Yeah. And I was like,

I heard shit in the kitchen. I look and they're just like biting the eating the plastic on the outside of the loaf. I was like, yeah, I didn't realize cats. Don't ask why I'm buying wonder bread cats get down like that teresa what's something that's overrated um i feel like a lot of people won't agree with me but i think the movie ladybird was all right oh yeah and everyone is raving about it i watched it pretty early before i saw too much about it so maybe if i watched it again now knowing i'm supposed to like it. I watched it pretty early before I saw too much about it, so maybe if I watched it again now, knowing I'm supposed to like it, I'll like it better, but

it didn't not like it. It just felt very like, I've seen this before. Well, you are somebody from Northern California who went to NYU, right? Yeah, maybe I related too much to it. Exactly what the movie's about. Did you go to Catholic high school, too? I went for one year, but I was a brat

to my mom so maybe it struck too close to home right it's funny because other friends i haven't seen it yet but i was just talking with my friend britney who were from california we did go to a catholic high school and she was like it felt so real to me that she wasn't even like it was great she's like it just felt really real but i don't know so you're saying it's overrated merely because there's a lot of hype but it doesn't you're not saying it quite adds up to excitement? Part of it. Yeah, maybe part of it is I'm biased because it's a story I've seen so many times.

That I've lived. Yeah, perhaps it's like that I've seen it in life so many times. But I also think by itself, I don't know. The stakes never felt that high. It never felt like it was that original of a story. It's just another coming-of-age story. It feels like something I'm like, I enjoyed it in the moment, but in five years, I will forget and not care about it.

Right. Huh. Interesting. What's something that's underrated? Oh, I love the show The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, I haven't heard too much about it.

I think people like it generally, but I feel like it's been, so far, a very enjoyable show that I have been wanting. My gauge of a good show for me is when I'm done with an episode, even if I don't have time, I'll like watch the next one. And I've been doing that. So, yeah, it's good. I mean, I think the one of the reasons I really like it, too, is I feel like it really captures like the like the psychological struggle of someone doing comedy too of like getting the requisite confidence to go up on stage and then like working your material but like straying from the thing that makes you funny and then refinding that i don't know there's a lot of i just found it very

watchable and very entertained despite the fact that like mostly like what the last show amy sherman paladino did gilmore girls. She writes very privileged characters where people have humendous or humendous. Humendous. Tremendous. I like humendous. Humendous. Thank you. Let's make some t-shirts of that, please. These people have tremendous and humongous

familial safety nets. In Gilmore Girls, parents are massively wealthy. Even in this show, parents are quite wealthy. But I don't think that detracts from anything or takes anything away from the show. But Noah Garden Swartz, former guest, he consults on that show. So shout out to him because they want to go on Globe. To tell people what it's like to be a stand-up comedian. Yeah, like him and Jen Kirkman were consultants, I think, to sort of give their view of stand-ups to the writers.

And I think Noah being like, uh, you know, he, he said what basketball is to your family. Like Judaism is to his grandfather's a legendary rabbi. So I think he was able to give many insights to them, but yeah. Well,

I also think the biggest thing, uh, for that show, isn't just about, cause I first going into, I was like, I don't like watching shows about standups, but it's not about just her doing standup,

but like the manager, uh, Susie character is also great and i feel like that's a side you don't see a lot and i like their relationship and i almost feel like more women or people will be interested in going to management from that show which is cool because it's not just another hey everyone comedy's great be a comedian right right right so yeah and she's like great of like forcing her like to the most honest comedy out of her too as like the manager yeah good show yeah and also like the weird like lenny bruce like he's kind of like in there and like

just around yeah um is the comedy good is her comedy i laugh you like her comedy they do a good job of uh making it realistic where you can they write it in a way where she's supposed to be funny you can see that she has raw talent but she's not like unbelievably good when she starts. Right. She definitely, you know, has, it's very raw. Right. Cool. Well, I will definitely check that out.

That's on Amazon? Mm-hmm. Cool. All right. Let's get into the format. We're trying to take a sample of the ideas that are out there changing the world. We talk about pop culture, the news, and just try and take a temperature of the global shared consciousness. And the way we like to open up is by asking our guest, what's a myth?

What's something that most people believe to be true that you know to be false or, you know, incorrect? Teresa? Well, I am a twin, and a lot of people think that when you're twins, it's like having a clone and that you guys are the same and that everything's easier because you can just do half the work. And it's not true. It's actually much harder because you have to prove that you're separate people all the time. Right. Constantly trying to prove your individuality.

And, yeah, my sister is much more cool than me. She's very talented and cool and tries hard and cooler than you she's like the kind of person who posts like selfies running but like you don't get mad at her because she's like bless a day and you're like right so she can get away with that um she's a musician so i feel like they're much more genuine in their craft right right right um but yeah i actually recently went to a fortune teller in taiwan and she went with me to help me translate because i don't speak that great chinese and they told me like all this stuff about my relationships that's like not great and then at the end we were like well is it the same because we're twins and the fortune teller was

like no actually you're two minutes apart and she's complete opposite it seems like she's very uh lucky in love and constantly getting into good relationships stable sturdy yeah you leave you're like i want to go see another side but the thing is the fortune teller was right yeah right i thought she was gonna be like you're the same and i'd be like aha gotcha right right but she read you we look the same it's like no actually that's funny because at one time i thought i saw Teresa, and I think it was her sister, in a parking lot at my old job. When I called Rosie, I was like, yo, I think I saw Teresa. And then you were like,

that might have been my sister. And I had no idea the twin. And I was like, that makes sense. I probably saw the twin. Did your sister live in town? She did, but she moved to Taiwan a few months ago. But at that time she was here. This was like a year ago probably. Is that hard, being apart? Because you guys can feel each time, she was there. Yeah, right, right, right. This was like a year ago probably. Right. Is that hard being apart? Like because you guys can feel each other's pain and stuff.

Yeah, I'm constantly – that's why I'm like sleepwalking because she's sleeping right now. Right, right, right. Exactly. And she's having the craziest dream. She's like, were you on a podcast? I had that dream. All right. Let's get into stories.

stories uh we had a uh quasi crisis over the weekend uh in hawaii in our westernmost state i guess i guess alaska is our westernmost state is it i think so yeah uh but hawaii is way out there and uh far out far out man and uh you know just hanging loose. And they got an alert at around 8 a.m. that said a ballistic missile was incoming. And, oh, yeah, seek immediate shelter. This is not a drill, which is – Yeah, it was a mistake, as people probably know by now, due to the fact that we're not in a thermonuclear war, nuclear war. Nuclear. Nuclear. But, yeah, it was, I don't know, for 38 minutes, everybody was –

Miles, you said you know some people who live in Hawaii and they were just like – Yeah, my girlfriend's college roommate is from Hawaii and lives out there. And, like, she was saying, like, it was wild. Like, they were calling each other, being like, hey, like, if we like, she was saying like, it was wild. Like they were calling each other being like, Hey, like if we don't make it, like, I love you.

Like, like really people were forced to examine their mortality, like in those 38 minutes. And like her friend's sister lives in the mainland and is the only one that is on the mainland right now. So she was out there. Her parents were calling her like, Hey, the missile might come.

And like, like someone on the, her sister was like having a meltdown too, because she thought everybody in her family was just about to be like who knows what was going to happen. Sounds like a very traumatic situation for people who are involved. All because it was a mistake and we have outdated software to sort of moderate all this kind of stuff. Right. moderate all this kind of stuff. Right.

And I mean, I guess people could have figured out that it was a mistake when they weren't dead after five minutes, which is apparently how long it would take for the missile to get from North Korea. That's how long? Five minutes? Hawaii. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. So you'd have five minutes. So really use that phone call, that first phone call carefully. Yeah. It's, it's a crazy story.

This is something that we covered a lot back at Cracked, how many times during the Cold War there were just these near misses where, you know, one, like, glitch would happen. And they'd leave a tape in sort of the NORAD, like the big defense room that like you've seen in movies where it's like all these screens and stuff. They once left a tape in there that was a drill for a nuclear attack. And they actually like had the president like up in the air and everybody was freaking out like getting ready to launch weapons. the air and everybody was freaking out like getting ready to launch weapons uh there's this story about stanislav petrov this guy in russia who you know was the guy who was in charge of if there was a missile incoming he was to like call the command and say launch launch an attack on the united states he saw one missile and he was like, all right, that could be a glitch.

And then like 12 missiles followed like exactly in the formation that you would expect coming from the United States. And for whatever reason, he just decided like, OK, I'm not going to end the world. I feel like this doesn't feel quite right. And he was right. It was like a sun glare or something like that. But they – Wait, what? A sun glare looked like 12 missiles?

Yeah. It like fucked with the – Like the satellites that were like – Radar or whatever. Oh, gotcha. Yeah. But he basically saved the world by not doing his job, by failing to do his job. So yeah. Yeah. saved the world by not doing his job by failing to do his job um and yeah could you imagine if like we reacted to this in the wrong way right it's like oh shit well i guess it's going off

and then because it happened in japan too right like on sunday right or i think yeah or maybe tomorrow the timeline is kind of weird but anyway yeah i think it was sunday or maybe monday anyway in japan that it was another fake warning of like, hey, seek shelter. But they got like the just kidding alert out like within a couple minutes. So it wasn't a full-blown like 40 minutes of like existential dread like the poor people in Hawaii did. But yeah, the guy who did it, Vern Miyagi. Shout out to Mr. Miyagi. He felt terrible about the mistake, which I'm sure he would because after he – like you could see there was like a photo of him.

He looked like really like, I fucked up so bad. I'm so sorry. But yeah, when you look at the interface that he was using, it's just like literally clicking a link to send one out that's like – they're not like properly organized. I could see how you – if you weren't on your shit, you might accidentally hit that. Well, no, but – It's not going to be easy on Vern. I mean, yeah, the technology is just crazy out of date. Right.

Like surrounding all nuclear weapons and, yeah, it's just the hardware and software. 60 Minutes did a story about it, and you look at it, it's like out of an 80s movie. It looks like an 80s movie a lot of the technology that they have both guarding and controlling uh nuclear weapons was he trying to send anything he was supposed to do i think a test a test oh he's supposed to be the one that says like drill right uh you know oh my god that's like when you accidentally screenshot a conversation and then send it to the person you're talking to right you're like right you're like damn ios 11 glitch then i just yeah i'm like it was a glitch it was a muster yeah photoshop that happens probably hundreds of thousands of times every day like and yeah

so we shouldn't have technology that makes it possible for people to do that with nuclear weapons. I mean how many people you think involved in that like took stock of like their relationships too? Like how many breakups do you think happened after this like missile warning? Where it was like, yo, honestly, like in that 38 minutes, I thought like of somebody I was really trying to be dating or like the fact that we're kind of done and I still haven't done anything yet. And you're like, sorry, this is – I took stock of my life in those 30 done and I still haven't done anything yet. Right. Sorry. This is – I took stock of my life in those 30 minutes and this isn't going to work out. I feel like there has to be something. People just come clean with like deathbed confessions.

Someone needs to option this story already. I mean it's a rom-com for 2018. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and Trump was apparently golfing. So – Right. And just – I guess thank God. He's like – Well, guess thank God he doesn't do his job very often. They knew within minutes that it was a fake thing.

They told him and he was kind of like, all right, you could have tweeted something. A lot of people follow your Twitter, so I'm sure you could have probably put some people at ease. They didn't send out a correction, right? For 38 minutes. For 38 minutes it took him to be like, oh, false alarm. My bad. So yeah, they're now saying that people will know when it's a real one because they'll send a follow-up being like, and seriously, we didn't fuck up this time.

This is an actual alert. Then you have to enter a CAPTCHA code. Right, exactly. Prove you're not a bot. Like, what? You're warning me. Anyways. All right.

We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back after these messages. This summer, the nation watched as the Republican nominee for president was the target of two assassination attempts, separated by two months. These events were mirrored nearly 50 years ago when President Gerald Ford faced two attempts on his life in less than three weeks. President Gerald R. Ford came stunningly close to being the victim of an assassin today. And these are the only two times we know of that a woman has tried to assassinate a U.S. president. One was the protege of infamous cult leader Charles Manson. I always felt like Lynette

was kind of his right-hand woman. The other, a middle-aged housewife working undercover for the FBI in a violent revolutionary underground. Identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore. The story of one strange and violent summer. This is Rip Current. Available now with new episodes every Thursday. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I've been thinking about you. I want you back in my life.

It's too late for that. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and in my life. It's too late for that. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. One session. 24 hours. BPM 110. 120.

She's terrified. Should we wake her up? Absolutely not. What was that? You didn't figure it out? I think I need to hear you say it. That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. This machine is approved and everything?

You're allowed to be doing this? We passed the review board a year ago. We're not hurting people. There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you ever wonder where your favorite foods come from? Like what's the history behind bacon-wrapped hot dogs? Hi, I'm Eva Longoria. Hi, I'm Maite Gomez-Rejon. Our podcast, Hungry for History, is back.

Season two. Season two. Are we recording? Are we good? Oh, we push record, right? Okay. And this season, we're taking an even bigger bite out of the most delicious food and its history. Saying that the most popular cocktail is the margarita, followed by the mojito from Cuba,

and the piña colada from Puerto Rico. So all of these, we thank Latin culture. There's a mention of blood sausage in Homer's Odyssey that dates back to the 9th century B.C. B.C.? I didn't realize how old the hot dog was. Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and sexuality in Latinx communities. This podcast is an intergenerational conversation between Latinas from Gen X to Gen Z.

We're covering everything from body image to representation in film and television. We even interview iconic Latinas like Puerto Rican actress Ana Ortiz. I felt in control of my own physical body and my own self. I was on birth control. I had sort of had my first sexual experience. If you're in your señora era or know someone who is, then this is the show for you. We're your hosts, Diosa and Mala,

and you might recognize us from our flagship podcast, Locatora Radio. We're so excited for you to hear our brand new podcast senora sex ed listen to senora sex ed on the iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast and we're back so we wanted to talk about the thing that i don't know a lot of people around me we're talking about everybody mengazi yeah mengazi question mark uh so aziz anzari uh there was a article written in was it babe uh babe.com babe.com uh where somebody described a date with him that was where he acted pretty shittily. And it kind of got lumped in with the Me Too movement, which there are some debates about whether it should have.

So we wanted to talk about that. So we wanted to talk about that and kind of this is probably the most controversial of the public sort of interrogations of famous men. And like even the Me Too movement and, you know, people who consider themselves feminists are being divided by this. So I don't know. Where did you guys fall on this? Ooh, yeah. God, I feel like everything I say, I'm going to get backlash. But I think, first of all, I feel like I'm not defending Aziz. I feel like everything he did, he could have done better, for sure. But I do kind of think this article confounds the movement a little bit because I wouldn't put it in the same category. It doesn't mean she – I think the – I don't know.

She wasn't the author. The tipper? The tipper. Grace. The victim. The victim, yeah. I guess we call her. Subject of the article.

The subject of the article has every right to share her story as anybody can at any time share the story and you know whatever line of work she may be in it doesn't matter but I do think that this story to me falls under more like dating horror story which is also a story you can share but I think putting it in the same category as like Louis CK or like Kevin Spacey or you know any men who have raped or assaulted in a more I don't want to be like a more serious sense because that's subjective. But in a legally more serious sense, I think putting this together has been – is more damaging for the overall movement. Though I do think women should talk to each other. So I think it's good that she is talking about it.

I feel that it is taking away from the more serious stories right right well this seems like to be like there are people who believed this means aziz and sorry is canceled and get rid of them throw them on the pile with the rest of like the sex crims and then there are other people who were more feeling like they were more i guess they were moderates so speak, like within how they felt to approach this. I mean I think clearly this is an example of how to not treat a woman on a date. And I think that is – that's very clear. There's no like defending that and i think yeah it's interesting to see how there's begun to be infighting because some people are saying he's done get rid of them and other people like well and then it's caused people to turn on each other and it's become very divisive i mean like even

like margaret atwood got like flamed uh because she was talking about another thing having to do with uh you know like due process and I think the due process argument has become a thing that people have been, I think that's like the sort of not logical next step in this discussion is clearly the Me Too movement is born out of the fact that the legal system has failed women. Right. And that's why there is a need to figure out how to hold people accountable because they can't do that in the legal, like the traditional justice judicial system sense. Right. And I think that what this brings up is another conversation around how do we create a system

that is just for the victim? Because clearly the way it is now, it's not working. Right. And I think that's like another, I guess that's the next step of this conversation. Like for me getting into like whether or not Aziz should be canceled or whatever, that's the next step of this conversation. Like for me getting into like whether or not as he should be canceled or whatever, that's like a other more nuanced debate. Cause I don't,

I don't even know how the fuck we should even talk about it. Well, I mean at the end of the day that like the cancel stuff and the job stuff, that's all going to, and people don't see this when they're blogging, but that all comes down to business. And that's like, you know,

business people are going to make their decisions based on what's good for business. So when they cancel something, they do it because they don't think it's good for business. Or maybe they have a moral sense. Who knows? But ultimately, I don't think that's the way to fight sexual assault is just by ruining people's careers. Because what happens if you're faced with someone who doesn't have a career?

So I think we need to figure out a better way, like you're saying, justice-wise. But in this case, what justice does she want? That's the part that gets me about the story is like, she's not really looking for justice. And it's hard because she's not the one writing it. So it's very possible the writer has her own agenda. But to me, it reads like a story where the writer wanted to get involved and maybe take advantage of a time when she knew she could get views on this story.

And it didn't feel like it was necessarily helping the woman in the story. It doesn't seem like there's any call to action. Not even really a call for men to be better. It just feels like a juicy gossipy story, honestly. Right. And the part that rang the most off to me was how she describes Aziz as gross when he's just kissing her, not even like the sex stuff. And that to me reads as like, I don't want to be like, because I don't know her and this is secondhand.

But it seems like if you went on a date with him, like why would you describe him as a person as gross before any of this stuff happened? It really feels like maybe she wanted a story, wanted to go on a date and then didn't want to go that far. He didn't act correctly either. Right. So that made it harder for her to just get out of the situation. So I don't think he was right, but I don't think she was a full-on victim here because some of those adjectives just don't match up to me. Yeah, I mean she says it took her a while to, you know, come to terms with this as sexual assault. And I don't think it's at all clear to a lot of people that it does necessarily qualify as that.

I think people are having an important conversation about consent, or at least I think that should be the main conversation. The main takeaway is, you know, this is not how to behave in a sexual, you know, context. I have heard a lot of, you know, men respond by being like, well, Aziz got railroaded. This is like not fair. And like, that's sort of been their reaction. I do think there's an important conversation to have about consent and just the messages people get around consent. One of the stars of The Good Place, Jamil, talked about how, you know, his behavior, or at least some of the behavior described in the story seemed very, like, porny and that like porn sends men some really uh incorrect messages about you know how a sexual encounter should happen and you don't even really have to go to porn uh you know the

greece the one they're talking about like did she put up a fight or, you know, the whole Han Solo, Princess Leia relationship in Star Wars starts with him, like, pushing her up against a wall and being like, you like bad boys and her being like, leave me alone. And, you know, him basically forcing her to, you know, kiss him. And then it's like, ah, that's what she wanted after all. what she wanted after all um i i do think that that's something that men need to talk about more with each other and with women and i so like i think there's a good conversation being had here um there it's an important conversation uh to be had here i don't think people would be having it if she hadn't publicly named who the man was you know i don't think people would be having it if she hadn't publicly named who the man was. I don't think this article would have started that many conversations, right? At the same time, it does seem like – I can see how people would think it's unfair to him that this is now something that he's going to be marked with.

I would say that I would agree with that sentiment. If this is the worst thing that he's ever done and he's completely innocent in all other contexts, I guess time will tell if that's the case. But, yeah, I don't know. I do get how how people would see this as being sort of somebody getting railroaded in their career, being sort of put done away with in a situation where they don't feel bad for him but i i think that it's a lot of people aren't examining the other side of consent which is also it's never on the woman you know because i think if you're in a situation where the guy is totally respectful there would never ever be a question if there's any doubt right he'll just back off even to the point where he's overcompensating the woman's like oh my god i'm frustrated like blah blah blah that could happen and that's better than the opposite but i do think like women also can um be better about saying what they want not that it's ever their full responsibility because even if they don't

say what they want you know the guy is being respectful it will never get to that point but just like in light of the climate right now i don't think it's that like in this case he was an asshole but he did every time she said no stop and every time she said no he backed off and even put on his clothes again did he start back up again yes so i think that was him being an asshole right like almost immediately but he gave her opportunities to leave and i think he did that because he didn't want to put her in that really extreme situation. Did he know he was pushing it? For sure.

I'm sure he knows he's famous and I'm sure he's done that before to other women and knows they usually are cool with it in the end. Right. Or whether they are or not, but that's how he feels. So I think he's being an asshole there, but I don't think he was not giving her a way out, which is like – I don't know. I mean like I don't know. It's a discussion. But I think it definitely is a different type of consent because it's sort of like he was trying to give her a way to express how she felt and she never did. And maybe some of that's ingrained as a young woman not wanting to feel like a bitch and not wanting to right you know

have someone not like you so some of that i think we can change earlier on right so i think that's another important conversation right because i think men have to also look at it like this i'm sure there are times like you know like you said and even like with a lot of conversations i had with women this weekend talking about it they've been like well i don't want to just be like no stop shut the fuck up this is done or or whatever because they may like the person. They just don't want to move that fast and they don't want to come off like you said, like as a bitch or whatever. And I think that's because men have probably created an environment for them that if they shy away from advances or say no, they're like, what the fuck is your problem? And if that's the reaction men have, that's not good.

You know what I mean? And I think that's where people just have to realize, look, we're entering a new era, right? Where a lot of the things that were like, you know, seemed acceptable or whatever are not. We're trying to evolve. We're trying to say like, hey, if a woman asks you respectfully to say, I'm not comfortable moving at this speed, then you as a man, as a modern evolved human should be like, I respect that. That's cool.

Let's just, we go as fast as everybody can agree to. Right. But I think that's something too, that men have to begin respecting is sort of not seeing as like, you know, being able to pick up if they say no, not like, well, no, right now, let me, let me see what happens in 20 minutes. Right. Just being able to be like, all right, it's done. Because the opposite effect is if you keep pushing, then you're going to make this woman uncomfortable.

Right. And that person will probably not want to date you subsequently. You have to – there's just – I don't know. I guess part of it is understanding that this is – that we have to take people's words seriously too like if someone's ass saying no just be like then that's in like you know put your raging boner away try and act like a fucking human but i guess i'll put my raging but yeah like but i'm saying like the porn aspect has like the putting the fingers in the mouth and like where you want me to fuck you like that kind of stuff we're like reaped of the guy who watches a lot of porn and is like oh

i'm learned about sex from. Yeah, exactly. Like your first in your first interactions are learning how to be intimate women. Your examples are just hardcore pornography. Right. And I can take you. And as a famous person, I can imagine that he's not used to people sort of disabusing him of that notion, you know. And when she did, he was he was surprised but i

yeah i don't know um his apology also is something that got brought up a lot uh when in conversations you were having over the weekend and i mean i think just dan harman gave a really detailed apology last week that, you know, I think a lot of people in the Me Too movement kind of looked at more like that's how you apologize. That's the standard. That's how you should apologize for something that is, you know, not super clear cut. a clear cut. And I would just say, like, with the Aziz thing, like, that seems like, you know, we should obviously give him a chance to do that. But it is a, like, you should read both statements. I think the Dan Harmon thing was a little more clear cut, though.

And part of it, too, is, like, we can't force an apology because the true apology, like, which I think Megan G Ganz was the writer. Right. And she made a statement on it. And the reason she accepted his apology wasn't because he apologized, was because she felt he actually did learn the lesson and she felt indicated. So I think when we try to get these men to apologize early, they try to say the right thing so that they can work again. But they're not actually learning and they're not actually sorry. Right.

And I don't think Aziz is in a place where he's sorry. So if he says something now, I wouldn't buy it. But Dan's statement about working through his issues and actually understanding what they were and how it was a different time of his life, it doesn't make it okay, but you can tell he actually understood how he hurt people and did work through that. Right. Because people aren't just seeking apologies right you want to you want to demonstrate that you have grown right and you will not repeat the behavior because you're demonstrating the self-awareness to know

this is what i did was shitty because i know now because of these things yeah when you just say i'm really sorry that's just like when you're just trying to get you when your mom does something like oh you better say sorry and you just say sorry because you want to move on with it. You're like, okay, I'm sorry. But for these kinds of instances, you have to show some kind of growth or self-awareness for people that – yeah, like you say, to demonstrate that, okay, this person understands. It's not just boilerplate apology. It's that there is an awareness coming from what they do. I once got a text from an ex.

I was just like, I'm sorry for everything. And I was like, oh, for what? Can you elaborate? And then he was like, oh, it was just for everything. I guess if you're not ready to forgive me, then we can have this conversation later. And I was like, I don't know. It could have been any number of specific things you did. But it just read as like someone who didn't want to feel like I was still mad and just

wanted to be like, we're cool, right? I said, sorry. Yeah. And so I think that's, yeah, I don't know. I don't, I'm not looking for those types of apologies. Like James Franco. I don't know if you saw his interview with, uh, gosh, which, which late night guy was Seth Meyers or maybe Seth Meyers where he was confronted about it.

And he was confronted, I think on both. I mean, Colbert was the first one. Oh, Colbert then. And he's, he had a really terrible reaction because he said all the right things. But then you can poke so many holes in it. Like he was like, I don't know why these women would say that. And, you know, I respect them. Well, if that was true, why didn't you publicly respond or let's call them up?

Like he's afraid to actually talk about it because he is guilty. Right. Right. Yeah. That seems to be the difference is Dan Harmon acknowledged what he did, acknowledged what he did was wrong, like saw it from the other people's perspective. what it looked like from their point of view and then just like giving a blanket, but I support the movement. And it's like that I feel like that doesn't really reflect any any improvement or any actual grappling with what is happening. Right. This is I think it's just a very important moment for this whole like sea change that's

occurring. Right. Because now we're having the more nuanced discussions before these people off top were like just unequivocally just terrible people. Like you just knew like, oh, that's a rapist. That's just someone – this is – if we're just going to take it on the facts that we know without considering what other history there might be and it's just like this guy was an example of how to act like a shitty guy on a date. Then do they get, do they deserve to be lumped in with this? Probably not.

Um, but again, I think the, the moment too is to, we want a cultural shift in the end, right? Like all these, any movement about like change is about changing culture and changing the, like, you know, the way justice is administered and things like that. And I guess I wonder, is that the next step? Because the shitty men in media list, you know, she sort of touched on like why there's a need for this and things like that. But eventually, like the discussion has to be on like our own judicial system, too. Right. And how to to like mediate things like this that isn't just done sort of through social media or whatever.

There's also resistance, I think, to this particular story because I think a lot of women, almost everybody I know I'm sure has had an experience like this. And a lot of us don't want to look at it as a serious thing because like you kind of separate it from the more serious things. And then if all of a sudden something like this is something we're supposed to be really, really upset about, then I have to go back through my entire life and be like, well, have I ever had a good experience? And so I think a lot of women are resistant to labeling this or putting this in the Me Too movement because they don't want to feel that – they don't want to go back and rewrite their past essentially. And some of them may be in relationships with men who act this way. Yeah.

I don't think men should act this way, but you know, it definitely shifts your entire life. If you've grown up knowing something. Yeah. Well, I think, you know,

we're, we're trying to, we're trying to evolve, right. Yeah. People. And yeah, the weirdest thing to me is that is these really felt like he knew what he

wasn't supposed to do. So maybe that's like, that was the most annoying part on him. Like he kind of made sure not to cross the line and say all the right things. Yeah, but he was walking the tightrope of – He's like taking advantage of the system. But it's like, okay, if you hire a babysitter and you want someone who doesn't murder your kids. But what if your babysitter is like, I'm not a murderer, but just checking.

Is it cool if I light the kids on fire? And you're like, no. And why would you say that? And they're like, I knew a murderer but just checking is it cool if i light the kids on fire right you're like no and why would you say that and they're like i knew that i just want to check yeah would you hire that person you probably prefer a person who's like i'm just a good babysitter i don't have to ask i don't have weird questions yeah right so you know i don't know like there's definitely people who are dancing along the lines and i'd rather we all just like move into safe territory and then he's like dousing your kids in lighter fluid and being has the letter and he's like no good so is it not good you said no right yeah i knew that though right so i'm not a murderer right but yeah uh it's

yeah this is why i think it's been this is one of the toughest discussions we've had to have too and around it because it is it's it's so nuanced and it's forcing like the next step of discussion is like what where do we go from here like how how are we going to change it so we're in an in a world where hr and and like the police don't fail women either yeah yeah that's i think that's a bigger conversation that we should probably have uh soon about like what what is wrong with the actual systems for adjudicating this? Not like we as a culture, but we should talk about that on the podcast. We've kind of talked around it and been like, and we need to do this this way because the legal system doesn't work

and HR doesn't work. And we've of mentioned it right in passing on other episodes but we should also because yeah the way it works now that most women are inclined to believe that they going to the police isn't a good thing or trying to go to the court is not will not get the outcome that is needed right and i think that's that's troublesome too let's just make penises like those credit cards with chips in them so that they can just never figure it out and they can't like – you have to like enter a pin to like have sex. Or like a sorcerer so you could like summon a penis. You're like – like that's how you – I don't know. What the fuck we're going to do with this?

Wait. Who can never figure it out? The men can never figure it out? I mean put a password. I don't know. Make it – Password protected penis. No, I want to examine this idea.

What encrypt your penises? You guys love Bitcoin. Yeah. Men love Bitcoin. Put it on the block. Right. To use it sexually, you need to put in the code from the other person involved in the scenario to be like, oh, yes, I'm unlocking the penis for use. Right.

Otherwise, like Scott, stay in the case. Everyone has to be accountable for your penis sort of like the guns with the combination locks right exactly that's a great idea see you guys we're changing the world already uh and meanwhile the president uh had an affair with a porn star tried to have a threesome with another porn star uh the year after he got married and well his wife was pregnant pregnant right yeah uh and nobody gives a shit because they're like oh yeah well we kind of but he's racist right now we already we put the sexual assault thing to bed or just sex deviant to bed because now we're on shithole right but well now we're seeing that everyone so many people are like that so it's

like maybe they do relate to him right yeah if this was a democrat i mean we wouldn't it like this would be the only thing in in the news yeah both on on fox news and also like the new york times would be covering it cnn would be covering it'd be top front page news uh if if a democratic president had any sort of situation like this but we can't get lower right i mean the lower like we've already done racism and sexual assault i guess murder right is the next one where they will have to like laugh off murder like he didn't kill that guy right that guy got in front of a bullet that he shot at him right like i it's just interesting to see all the logic and even like sarah huckabee sanders they trying to justify the racist shit where she was like well if he was racist how come he had a tv show on nbc and how can these people

ask him for money it's like could it be that the whole system could that be i don't know right uh all right we're gonna take a quick break. We'll be right back. separated by two months. These events were mirrored nearly 50 years ago when President Gerald Ford faced two attempts on his life in less than three weeks. President Gerald R. Ford came stunningly close to being the victim of an assassin today. And these are the only two times we know of

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So, other than the president's affair with Stormy Daniels, is that? Mm-hmm. Stormy Daniels, is that? Mm-hmm. Stormy Daniels. What a name.

That's not even a good porno name. I know. Alana Evans is another porn star who Donald Trump and Stormy Daniels called up and were like, hey, come hang out with us in our hotel room at the Trump American Century Celebrity Golf Championship in Lake Tahoe. But beyond that, we have. Wait, hold on. the Trump American Century Celebrity Golf Championship in Lake Tahoe. But beyond that, we have – Wait, hold on. Wasn't Stormy Daniels and Alana Davis, they were there because they were doing promotional shit for a company? I don't know. I don't know what they were doing there.

That's what I read in this other thing. So his celebrity golf tournament had wicked entertainment, had a booth there oh really which is why they were even there so those are kind of people who are setting up shop at your celebrity golf tournament already that that's kind of weird anyway but i'll just leave that i'll leave that there because like in the photo of them from apparently that weekend you can see like a wicked pictures like step and repeat behind them is that the name of the porn like the porn company so clearly a porn company was invited to participate in this or like some kind of festivities around it, right? Right.

Anyway, that's something to think about. Yeah. I know that there's also always like porn conventions happening alongside more like, quote, legitimate events. Oh, really? Yeah. That used to be uh what's the uh yes used to have this like ces used to happen at the exact same weekend in vegas as like the main porn thing because the overlap of like internet users right because porn basically drove uh oh technology innovation and technology so uh they

like had a sort of informal agreement that they would have their convention like blu-ray beat hd dvd because of porn right yes like because i remember you were like oh hd dvd and then they're like blu-ray right and then between porn and playstation they picked the side and then like blu-ray became king yeah and the rest is history um but uh we wanted to talk about this uh new edit of star wars uh last jedi uh the defeminized fan edit aka the chauvinist cut which is the actual how the guy titled it. Yep. Yep. And he basically cut all the strong female characters out of The Last Jedi. And, in fact, he also cut down – like, you can't cut Rey completely out of it since she's, like, the protagonist. But he, like, cut scenes where she was shown having shown having like really impressive abilities to make her seem less impressive, which just seems like so weird. There's also racism. beginning uh and he cut laura dern's character so that uh and made the cut so that oscar isaac's

character has a real heroic death he like sacrifices himself to win the day sounds like a great guy what's crazy is the guy even admits like this is unwatchable just so you like he knows how bad it is it's like why did you even go through the trouble of making this because what it's 152 minute film cut down to 46 minutes is he doing it like a joke to make fun of like men complaining or is he doing it because he hates the woman in it i'm pretty sure this is a guy who does not he's like straight up men's rights activist who's like this is how it should be like a terrible film i'm not even sure what his goal is here. He's like, the real world isn't great enough for men. The fantasies I have have to have more men in them. Right.

But that is the world that we exist in where it's like, wait, is this perfect satire or reality? Right. Because the two are really hard to tell apart. Because he also does it from a a bootleg like copy where the dude brought the camcorder into the theater yeah so it's already unwatchable yeah and uh our writer jm pointed out that the very first star wars opens with a strong female character standing up to the villain right so if you were to cut like strong women out of the original star wars it would have been the story of you Skywalker's moisture farming career.

Yeah, but see, I didn't have the internet back then, so I could puff my chest out and be like, fucking women! Yeah, exactly. It was a different time. You always talk about how insulted you were by Leia standing up, not knowing her place in that first movie.

Yeah, but the entire story is put into motion by Princess Leia standing up to the Empire. But context isn't – or history isn't important to these people. Right. It is – so I didn't read the New York Times piece, but I saw it. And apparently – so Kathleen Kennedy founded the story group, the group that is in charge of developing all of the Star Wars stories. Yeah, like basically the entire universe. When she took – she succeeded George Lucas as president in 2012 of Lucasfilm.

And she put Kiri Hart, a former film and TV writer, in charge of the unit. And her first move was to make the story group entirely female, starting with Rain Roberts and Carrie Beck. So I don't know. That is cool that there is sort of a feminist bent to the story group and the people who are developing the stories. I'm surprised that hasn't gotten more Star Wars idiot men's rights people aren't up in arms about that. They're focused on this one. Do they know that? Do they know? I aren't like up in arms about that. They're like focused on like this one. Do they know that? Do they know that?

Like, I don't think they read. Yeah. Right. They'd have a fucking meltdown. Right. What the fuck? Yeah.

Uh, all right. That is all the time we have Teresa. It's been a pleasure having you as always. Uh, where can people find you? Follow you? Uh,

I'm on Twitter at Larissa T L E R Er-e-s-a-t-e-e oh i have a stand-up show every sunday night if you live in la you can do it at the what the friend um at comedy at the friend on instagram all right miles where can people follow you you can follow me on twitter and instagram at miles of great you can follow me at jack underscore o'brien on twitter you can follow us at daily zeitgeist on Twitter at the daily zeitgeist on Instagram. We have a Facebook fan page that is the daily zeitgeist and we have a website dailyzeitgeist.com where we post our episodes and footnotes.

Or we link off to sources for all of the stuff we talked about today. Uh, and, uh, we just launched how stuff works. Comedy's first non-Daily Zeitgeist podcast. Culture King with Carl Tartt, Edgar Montplaisir, and Jacques Huisniel. Some fan favorites from the Daily Zeitgeist have a podcast that is wonderful. It's outstanding.

You should go check it out. And Miles, do you have a song to play us out on yeah i do uh just to go out i want to play a really dope cover of the tame impala song let it happen by meg mac uh this is from like a version which is like a dope youtube series you can watch artists do covers of other songs she has a very like downbeat version of uh team apollo song and i think it's dope. So y'all should check that out. So we're going to ride out on that. We will be back tomorrow because it is a daily podcast.

Talk to you guys then. I will not vanish You will not scare me Try to get through it Try to push through it You will not think that I will not do it Maybe love is someone and I'm another story Take the next ticket Get get the next train. Why would I do it?

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