The Daily Zeitgeist - The Last Word On The Last Jedi 12.29.17

Episode Date: December 29, 2017

In this special episode, Jack & Miles are joined by special guests Dani Fernandez and one of The Daily Zeitgeist writers JM McNab to discuss Star Wars: The Last Jedi. SPOILERS AHEAD! PROCEED WITH CAUTION! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. Hello, the internet, and welcome to this special holiday edition of the Daily Zeitgeist, in which we are going to talk about Star Wars. Star Wars! The Last Jedi. And we have a couple special guests. We have Dani Fernandez.

I am here. I'm enjoying the Star War talk. Oh, yeah. For the Star War. I thought that there would be no better guest. And we are thrilled to be joined by our writer, J.M. McNabb. Hey, guys. Thanks for having me.

Hey. All the way from the great white north. I think I wanted to just preface this conversation by saying that I have heard many takes on this movie since it came out. And we mentioned this on last week's episode. Star Wars is so close to people that I don't think everybody has the same reaction. Like, I think it's uniquely divisive. And I think people's reactions and the things they focus on. Like, I've heard a bunch of people who liked it the same amount as me, but who disliked completely different things about it than me.

I've heard people who loved the things I hated, hated the things I loved. It all depends on your relationship to Star Wars. And, you know, everybody has grown up with star wars so it's but some people definitely got way crazier than others about it too like real fucking crazy danny how what what's your relationship to star wars like you know i i grew up what i didn't see it originally in theaters which apparently some people on the internet think that that's god awful because i have heard no when force awakens came out i had a guy that was like star wars is mine like i saw it in theaters before you were

born i'm like okay why don't you write daisy ridley and john boyega then too because they also didn't see it in theaters fans are so you're right fans are so possessive of it and it's like you gotta let it's not entirely your you don't get to claim the whole fandom for yourself i think a lot of people uh what i've been seeing like like you said like online is that people had these theories about what was going to happen when it didn't happen if everything that you wanted to happen happened you would have said it was just like huge fan service right you know uh oh yeah this was predictable is another thing and then if nothing happened that you wanted it to happen, same thing. People are still saying, oh, it's fan service to these fans.

Oh, that was super predictable. I think it's a lose-lose. Either way, I think people are taking it way too seriously. The fact that Johnson got, like, death threats is insane. That, to me, means that you're not an actual Star Wars fan because Luke and Leia and Han Solo, they wouldn't want you to be doing those things. Right, exactly. I guess first we should go around and everyone state if they are on the I loved it boat, the I didn't like it boat, I liked it but boat. What boat is everyone on?

But you didn't say it. This is spoilers, right? Yeah. I feel like you should let people know. We'll do something crazy right here. Spoilers, spoilers spoilers spoilers if you do not want to know what the fuck happened turn it off now otherwise prepare to have the film ruined boom you're welcome i feel like that would have been okay i love the part where samuel l jackson showed up but okay so jack where do you fall in terms of

this continuum of people who like or hate the film? I thought it was OK. I really wanted to love it and I did not love it, but not for the reasons that I've heard most people not loving it. Danny, how about you? I thought it was OK as well. I enjoyed it. I mainly liked the last 40 minutes. Like, I thought those were great.

I really like that. When shit started happening. I really liked that. When shit started happening. Yeah, exactly. And I understand the other parts of it, but it didn't feel the same to me. It didn't feel the same as, like, other Star Wars films to me, which is okay. I figured when I was leaving the theater that, like, a lot of people would love it, and I didn't realize that so many people would also not. Right.

Yeah. JM, I'm assuming you've seen it as well. Where do you fall on this? Yeah, I really liked it. Like maybe close to loved it when I saw it. Interesting, okay. There were definitely like some weird parts, but overall, yeah, I really liked it.

I also saw it like the very first screening on Thursday night and I hadn't read any reviews. So I went in pretty like, like I didn't know what to expect in terms of how other people were feeling. So I was pretty surprised to hear all the hate. I thought, like everyone in my theater really enjoyed it. I also went to a theater where they sell wine.

So I had a couple of glasses of red wine while I watched it. So maybe that's the trick. I was surprised to, also that's interesting because I went with somebody who had a couple drinks beforehand. I did not drink. The person who had a couple drinks really liked it way more than me.

I was actually shocked to not like it as much as I did because of how glowing the reviews were. We talked last week about how Metacritic has it at like an 86, which Rotten Tomatoes it's like, you know, you're trying to get everything down to a thumbs up or thumbs down. But like Metacritic goes into detailed scores for each review. You would think I don't know. It was just it was surprising to me that it wasn't, you know, an all out win. Yeah, I I'm in the kind of a boat like the rest of you guys. Like I didn't hate it, but there are parts that definitely bummed me out

as a Star Wars fan that I wasn't enthusiastic about. And I don't know if we want to go line by line or things like that, but I think I'll say a couple things, right? I thought there were really dope parts and then there were parts that made me scratch my head that I was like, is this real? Like, why did Luke have to drink the titty milk out of that thing?

That was one thing that I thought was a little odd. For comedic. It was. They have comedy stuff in the original Star Wars. Sure, sure, sure. Okay, another thing. Why did Laura Dern have to have, like, purple hair? Like, why couldn't she have just been blonde?

No, like, my complaints aren't really big. Like, I'm not like, oh, I'm so pissed about this character or whatever. I was just like, little things. I'm like, yo, Laura Dern's character was interesting. And my favorite part was when she just straight up kamikaze herself at light speed that was the dopest shit i've ever seen i was like this turned the film or like yeah i was like oh damn yeah when she 9-11 at light speed that was uh pretty crazy but i also think that was pretty crazy like there were two things like that where you were rooting for the person who was driving a thing into another thing

like 9-11 oh like boyega too yeah boyega at the end too it was like yo that's that's crazy that we flipped that much but i thought the the scene with snoke when snoke got got uh and the whole like palace guard scene was one of my favorite scenes in Star Wars in a long time. I loved the light speed 9-11, even though somebody pointed out that like, well, doesn't that just mean you could have always done that? Like you could have done that to the Death Star. You could do that to anything at all times ever in the history of Star Wars. Yeah, but that's a big, but that ship itself that they were in, that's like one of their only ships that they have.

So that's why it was big for the rebellion. That's why they didn't want to get, they couldn't forfeit that ship. That meant a lot to them. It was one of their only ships that they have so that's why it was big for the rebellion that's why they didn't want to get they couldn't forfeit that ship that meant a lot to them it was one of their resources got it that makes sense or they'll have to add it like a scene in new hope where like all the x-wing pilots are talking about like i don't i don't really want to do that right yeah right maybe i don't want to die for this well couldn't like a small squadron of x-wings achieve the similar thing too? Because they can also warp. Yeah. Like kill themselves? Yeah, like if they –

But that's the thing is that the rebellion is so small that they don't want to lose – They don't have kamikaze resources. Yeah, they're not going to go into something or at least their generals aren't going to want them to just kill themselves. I appreciate that. Okay. I like that. That's fine. So my main issues were everything on the island I I thought, felt really flat, like dramatically.

It was like, Luke, come back. No, I'm not going to come back. Luke, please come back. No, I don't want to. Like, it was just like sort of a dead thing where he was just like blocking her at every like every turn. And I just I don't know that that whole section felt somewhat dead to me. But I loved the Daisy and Adam Driver stuff. I thought that was.

Yeah, that was dope. There was anybody mad that it felt like we were adding like new things to the force that we didn't know about till this movie. Yeah, that was the other thing that bummed me out is I just felt like by the end I was like, oh, so I didn't know what the force was at all. And maybe that's OK. But for some reason that bummed me out that like the force was just something anyone could have if they just concentrated but i don't think that's what it is but i think what luke was saying is that it it's not just a lightsaber he was like this isn't what the force is right you know so his whole thing like the force being within you it's not within

everyone i think it's within choice select people and i'm not like a huge fucking star wars head so please don't write me because i don't care but about about how you want to correct me where the metachlorians from them yeah yeah but what i'm saying is that um that's what he meant is like it's not just in this thing and it's not just in those books and it's not just tied to these uh objects so it's like a combination of nature nurture like it's something you're you can be born with but then you can also like well depending and i meant that even beyond more like a combination of nature nurture like it's something you're you can be born with but then you can also like well depending and i meant that even beyond more like a philosophical aspect of like the physical mechanics of the force right like the projection stuff so it was like new to me or that like you could basically die in the vacuum of space and then kind of like tow truck

yourself that is yeah that was a lot yeah i was kind of cool with leia dying like that i thought oh shit like that was just like a real war death. Yeah. Right. And I thought when her hands started moving, I thought she was maybe communicating to Luke or something. That's what I thought, too. I'm dead, fam.

Come through. It's lit. But she was like, no, I'm coming back in the ship and I'm still alive. Jam, was that a thing that we've seen people do with the Force? Or Danny, maybe you know this. Like, what, astrally projecting yourself into a hologram across like space. Is that a thing we've seen before? Like a non dead Jedi do?

I don't think so. I mean, there's always been kind of like weird things that have been explained away by the force. I feel like I don't think they ever really like explained an empire. Why, you know, Luke's had that vision of Darth Vader in the cave. I think, you know, sometimes they did just kind of pepper and mystical things and, you know of Darth Vader in the cave. I think sometimes they did just kind of pepper in mystical things and have it be the Force. But I kind of

like that they were expanding the mythology of what the Force would be in this movie. I like that they were showing us something new. Yeah, totally. I mean, it was a bit weird at times that, yeah, no one mentioned the astral projection thing. The thing that really got me heated was that Luke is like the most powerful Jedi, right? We could agree on that.

Isn't it? Is that not like that? We know. Right. Sure. But in terms of what we know as viewers of the film, like to date, Luke Skywalker was the most lit Jedi. And I thought his death could have just been a little bit cooler.

Like, I understand like this function it served, but I felt like he could have just been a little bit cooler like i i understand like this function it served but i felt like he could have done like a samurai style thing where he really did roll up and fight all those atm6s and just be like what's good and then maybe died at the end and still achieved like the like serve as a distraction for what's left of the rebellion to escape but i just thought i felt like i wanted to really see like luke just wild out one last time as a fan but i guess but he kind of did in his projection you know what i mean for sure but then i think it was kind of like an ode back to his master yoda and stuff like that where it was you know this like peaceful death what he achieved was that it was like yeah he served this distraction and this really violent scene and then he kind of just

whiffed away but that's a lot of what the jedi is supposed to be they're supposed to be you know not this violent attack force they're supposed to be this like peaceful no for sure but then they're also jedis who like valiantly fought in like no-win situations when they have to right i see it as like karate almost i feel like that's kind of what they your self-defense like it's not an offensive art it's a like that's kind of what they. Your self-defense. Like it's not an offensive art. It's a defense. That's what they have. You know, don't go to the dark side. Don't, you know, the whole good versus evil. I feel like it's more of like Jedi.

You only use that like in crime. I don't know. That's what I took a lot of it from. I think originally was that, yeah, you're supposed to only use it when you have to. I'm sure someone's going to write me a whole thesis. Please don't. I've already had people write me thesis about Batman versus Superman. No, you just made it work a lot better for me the in your description so jm

that's why i keep asking you dan because i know because like i'm looking at it as like a for me the movie is like i loved it it got me into movie making the idea of like when i would see behind the scenes stuff yeah like that's that's sort of my connection to something i'm really interested in the mechanics of the film which is why i'm like kind of hyper focused on those things because rather than like the plot things obviously like i can forgive most of those things but there are things like the casino world that i felt like was a little odd and like the wardrobe felt really shitty to me like the whole idea of star wars like we're in places we've never seen cultures that have never existed but there are all these like touchstones to earth culture yeah like with tuxedos like champagne drinking kind of thing that i was like whatever i guess but again these

are like all minor things but yeah and it wasn't as bad as like the space 50s diner and whatever that was right right right when they go to like the seinfeld diner yeah i'll just say one more thing i loved snoke like i i just think it should always be a rule that if you have like a really main like boss bad guy uh their death should be super dramatic and violent and like that death was so dope when they just like fucking chopped him in half like he like fell apart into pieces that was super sweet uh and then the thing i think my main issue and this was also my issue with force awakens is i just thought the han solo part in force awakens and luke skywalker parts in this felt

dead to me and i feel like the movies will be better going forward without the old timey characters who like don't want to be there kind of being there and being like dragged through. But so, JM, you had a read on the symbolism of Luke that I thought was interesting. If you look back at kind of the history of Star Wars, it really seems like in the original movies, Luke was kind of this author surrogate for George Lucas. Like his name is practically the same as George Lucas's last name. And also like people have kind of inferred that the Darth Vader stuff may have been based on some personal stuff with his dad who wanted, uh,

George Lucas to like take over the family office supply business, which is less dramatic than ruling the galaxy. But you know, you can see the emotions behind it. Right. Uh, so I always kind of saw these new movies as trying to kind of continue that uh that metaphor of of luke skywalker as george lucas like i very much

read the force awakens as about george lucas kind of almost like a uh a reconciliation with george lucas after he made the prequels and you know because at the beginning of force awakens we learned luke skywalker did something shitty he created like the new space hitler and he's off in exile right so and george lucas this is the first star wars movie without george lucas and it's a movie where like luke is an actual like absence in the center of the movie that that's interesting right yeah i even thought that like the name the first order was like a reference to the prequels because the first order would be like one two three but maybe that's just a tinfoil hat kind of thing but anyway so i guess that was kind of in the back of

my mind when i was watching this and like you know that moment that ended the last movie that leads into this one where uh ray's handing him the lightsaber seemed like this kind of olive branch to to george lucas that you know saying you know we love this thing this is a love letter to you and your original movies and uh like in real life george lucas crapped on the new movie he you know he said it was too retro he called disney white slavers for some reason. He thought that would be a good thing to say. But so I guess like in that moment where like Luke Skywalker like tosses the lightsaber over his shoulder.

I've seen a lot of people online complaining about that. But I guess based on the context of Luke as sort of this Lucas surrogate, like that all made sense to me. And him being a cranky, reclusive old man made sense to me. Huh. Yeah. It doesn't make it any more fun to watch. No. I'm like, I don't need the subtext of George Lucas' relationship to the film weaved into this film. But yeah.

But it does seem like a lot of it does track. But I thought it was funny. The whole throwing the lightsaber away is because that's not what is expected. And it was like this moment that was built up for years. We were waiting to hear Luke Skywalker talk again because the last time we heard him talk was decades ago. And that this huge pivotal moment we've been waiting for, she hands it to him and he just tosses it. Like to me, that's a funny thing to like just like this huge moment that fans had built up. And it's like, yeah, you know, whatever.

Like I love that it was unexpected. And what I really hate that fans are reacting is that they shit a lot of them shit on force awakens they said it was too predictable it was too it was nothing new with abrams being there and now they have this new film and now it's too different right and now they're excited to have abrams back again it's like what you can settle down goldilocks yeah i was fine with the force awakens i didn't have nearly as many complaints as I did about this. But again, there are more stylistic things. And also there's just some plot shit.

But that's what Star Wars films are. I wanted Captain Phasma to still be around. I know. That was a wasted character. That was a wasted character. Yeah, because in Force Awakens you're like, oh, this is going to be fucking dope. Oh, she's going to come back? Yeah, yeah.

She's going to have her moment. No, she didn't. Do you also remember she's standing in frontn and like they're about to get killed then laura dern just blows a spot up carves a ship in half and then suddenly phasma emerges from the smoke like from another like bay door yeah i was like weren't you just standing there before all this shit went down they were like oh there's things like that i don't know yeah and i i feel like the other moment that was like that that was like the opposite of fan service. He was when they revealed who Ray's parents are.

That was probably one of my favorite moments. Like that whole scene just ruled like they did a great job with that scene. That reveal was cool. Adam Driver was so good in that moment. So was she. Yeah, I thought that was great. I'm definitely going to go see the next one on opening weekend. Like, you know know who else is?

All of the fans that are complaining. Everyone is still always going to see these movies no matter what. Yeah, and again, it was funny because as I watched it, I started bumming myself out because I was like, man, is this movie bad? Am I not liking this? And I was in my own head a lot of the time. I need to watch this. I'm going to watch it again. I want to watch it again too.

Just to make sure that my complaints complaints are still valid especially after this conversation because there were things that i wanted to discuss with other like well-meaning well-thought people who watch the films and we'll see but the other thing i don't know if we want i just want to also bring up we got another star wars film coming out in like five months anyway so the han solo movie that has not released a trailer i don't know know why. Anything. That's scary. That is scary, man, because they usually fucking tease the shit out of people. Like nine years out. Right. Well, it'll also be interesting to see, like, what the tone of that is.

Because, you know, Force Awakens was so steeped in nostalgia. And this one, like, just constantly felt like almost a repudiation of nostalgia. Like, it was all about getting rid of the things that were comforting or familiar and taking the narrative in different directions. So I don't know. It'll be interesting to see if the Han Solo movie seems kind of predicated on the idea of just, here's a bunch of people you already know.

I can't wait for one of these movies that's moving forward in time that is just Daisy Ridley, John Boyega, and Adam Driver anchoring the thing. And Kelly Marie Tran. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, John Boyega, and Adam Driver anchoring the thing. And Kelly Marie Tran. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, she's good, too.

Her acting performance, I don't know. I didn't like her kiss and die thing. It reminded me of Marion Cotillard in that Batman film where she was like, I'm going to say this thing and then die. She passed out. She used the last of her energy to tell him that he meant something to her. But those Star Wars story films, those side films like Rogue One and stuff, they always have like a whole other vibe.

They're always like, this is not Star Wars. This is a Star Wars story. And it seemed like Paul Bettany, like the quote that keeps coming out is like, this is a gangster film. The Han Solo one? Yeah. Oh, nice. So I have a feeling this is not going to be anything like, I mean, I'm here for it.

I'm here for all of them. Anyway. It's like Baby Driver. Yeah, exactly. The Star Wars. All cut to like. Kind of the same thing. He's like a driver. Right. anything like i mean i'm i'm here for it i'm here for all of them anyway baby driver yeah exactly all cut to like kind of the same thing he's like a baby driver driver right all cut to space pop yeah oh god could you imagine it's all it's all the music from the all right we're gonna take a quick break we'll be right back Defne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate.

My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhearts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti.

And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions. Like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or, can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice.

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Uh, I would just say like the, to further that Luke Lucas metaphor, like the ending is kind of wacky as the astral projection thing was. I think it ties into all of these themes we've been talking about in terms of, you know, like Luke creates a projection, which is,

you know, like a movie. And in the end, it's not about Luke so much as it's about, he inspired like future generations represented by whoever that little kid was at the end, who was literally like playing with a Star Wars action figure at the end. So I think it was kind of like,

as much as people aren't digging it in certain ways, I think it is kind of setting up a movie that we might like based on what we've been saying. It's setting up a movie where the heroes are going to be these new characters that we all like, and less about trying to recapture something that was done 30 years ago. So I think it's maybe a more interesting movie than it is like a successful movie or a fun movie to watch. I still thought it was really interesting.

I'll have to see it again. That metaphor definitely makes me like it more. Danny, your analysis of it makes me like it more. Anything we didn't get to that you wanted to bring up yeah um possibly the people that are like keep politics out of this film should go back and watch the original films same with the people that say that about superhero films like keep politics out of marvel and dc maybe you should read a comic book yeah um and see where that comes from because a lot of times filmmakers screenwriters and writers are influenced by current events and they put that in the film and that is also uh star wars i don't know if you're

like oh what does the empire represent oh no it's just the mean people in space right uh so maybe get over it and understand that politics there is going to be political commentary and most of the things that you watch okay that inspires most of the filmmakers that you love and you need to get over it and if you want to be a filmmaker yourself because that's a lot of the filmmakers that you love and you need to get over it and if you want to be a filmmaker yourself because that's a lot of the fans like i look at their thing when they write hate shit to people and it'll be like want to be filmmaker right you know and they have like every single movie review youtube channel and their thing maybe you should consider that as well that sometimes uh current events and political events that affect the entire nation and world influence or yeah influence

the filmmakers that you love and and uh if it makes you uncomfortable so it might have done its job right and also it's a very specific political choice that most movies for the first hundred years of cinema were like predominantly disproportionately and unrepresentatively like starring white men it's like that's not how the actual world looks so that's actually more of a political decision than having like a representative cast um miles anything you wanted to bring up before no i mean on i think to that point of like the people were like oh the social justice warrior shit fine like whatever i i really don't give a shit the one thing that i will say is like them like literally describing the military industrial complex like so literal i was kind of like like you can do that in nuanced way and still get the point across but i just felt

that was like it just felt like actually literal right like with like fat cats like basically getting like rich off the whole thing i like I'm totally down with spreading the word about this whole thing. But I just felt like some of this stuff felt like like lazy writing. Not even that the message was wrong. It's like, but I guess that's how you communicate to younger people who don't who they're trying to also inoculate with these sort of things. They're like, this is how people make money off conflict. But I think not only that, I think it was the fact that it was conflicted with them that, oh, they're also supplying you. Right. And I think that that's internally like the good versus evil thing. And especially even us as like a nation is like, oh,

well, we consider ourselves good. But then it's like, oh, we're doing these bad things, too. So I think that that's yeah, I get what you're saying, though. Yeah, it wasn't even the message. It's like the presentation. You're like, OK, do we need a PowerPoint of it? Everyone is like, this is the military industrial complex that eisenhower was warning everyone about well i think it also kind of hooked into like the theme of no one's you know all good and no one's all bad yeah right kind of it kind of disregarded like the light side and dark side of the force in a way which is maybe also why people are kind of unhappy but i kind of like that. Yeah, my mind cannot take that sort of complexity. All right, thanks everybody for joining us for Star Wars Minute, or half hour.

And we'll be back the next time there's a Star Wars movie out. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Thank you. Crooks Everywhere unearths the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do,

like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

your podcasts. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything

like you always do. What was that? That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. Can Kay trust her sister? You meant my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. What was that? That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. Can Kay trust her sister? Or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams.

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