The Daily Zeitgeist - Top 10 of 2025: #2 Extra! Extra! Ouija’ll About It!10.28.25

Episode Date: January 1, 2026

We are counting down the top 10 episodes of 2024, as voted by our listeners. At #2, we have: Extra! Extra! Ouija’ll About It!10.28.25 In episode 1954, Jack and Miles are joined by host of Otherworld, Jack Wagner, to discuss… Ouija Episodes, The Power Of The Unconscious Mind and more! LISTEN: Distant Land by MadlibSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, Zeitgang, and welcome to the end of the year. During these two weeks surrounding Christmas and the new year, we take some time off. During the mornings, we'll run some new holiday and end-of-the-year content that you can listen to while we're taking a break. In addition to all that stuff in the afternoons, where we would usually drop the trends episode, we are rerunning the 10 most popular episodes of this year, according to you. You voted with your dang ears, and we listened with ours. Actually, we looked at the data. We're spying on you.

Honestly, I'm mostly in this podcasting thing. For the rich marketing data, it provides to me about each and every one of you. At the end of the year, when I look back to see what made the top 10, and this was actually my favorite year to look back at, our top 10 is full of episodes. I feel like made it because of a bunch of. different reasons. There are some episodes that dropped after huge news events. There are some first episodes that dropped right after some hilarious news events, some great new guests, some classic fan favorite guests, and some new formats we tried out that we're very excited to see

that you guys enjoyed. Before we get into it, I just want to thank you guys for once again being such a cool community that's bloomed up around this podcast. We've been doing all these years. You guys repeatedly make us proud. You're there for us when we go through some really difficult shit. You show up at shows of our guests and we always get great reports from our guests about our listeners. You are the rare podcast audience that makes us extremely proud to have you as listeners so far. So don't, don't fuck this up, you guys. And coming in all the way at number two, It is an episode called Extra Extra Weja All About It. It makes more sense reading it than saying it out loud.

But this one features the great Jack Wagner, host of the Other World podcast. It was definitely a departure. It was like a Halloween themed special episode. And you guys seem to really enjoy it. Definitely outside of our comfort zone. But we really enjoyed making it. And we're glad you enjoyed it too. Here it is, the number two episode.

Jack, in your paranormal studies, have you encountered any Matilda's, any people with Matilda powers? Ooh, that is a great question. I mean, there's been Matilda adjacent people, but honestly, if I heard about a Matilda, if somebody came to me, claiming to me Matilda, I think I'll be skeptical of them right off the bat. Yeah. Right, right, right. Read so good that you can move things with your mind. Come on.

Exactly. A chocolate cake thrown at your teacher or whatever. Yeah. Wasn't that, didn't she do that? Yeah. I mean, there was a cake. I know that somebody was forced to eat a cake. She's like, starts out with the standard gateway crime of spilling water on her teacher.

But then it moves on to chocolate cake and then writing spooky message on the board with her brain. That's a good one. I mean, that cake scene was supposed to be torturous, but I feel like I could handle it. I know. One of the best-looking cakes in cinema history. I know why they make it look so good. Yeah, it's delicious looking. I don't know.

I feel like just food and movies always looks good. Like the, when in Jurassic Park, when they get back into the visitors. That jello? Bro, all of it. The ice cream. His burnt-meltie ice cream, too. Oh, it's just the way they're fucking eating. Their way they're feasting, yeah.

Yeah. And I think what, those kids were gone for like fucking 10 hours at that point, right? It was in numerous days. but anyway that's fine I was about to eat Dr. Grant I was so hungry out there bro you were gone for three hours

I'll tell you one bit of food that didn't look like it tastes good in Jurassic Park Samuel L. Jackson that guy's smoking so much I bet the dinosaur spit him right out I thought you were going to say that pile of shit nobody was checking for that Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers?

And what is this? How is that not a story we all know? What's this? Where is that? Why is it wet? Boy, do we have a show for you? From smartless media, campside media, and big money players comes crimeless. Join me, Josh Dean, investigative journalists.

And me, Rory Scoville. Comedian, as we celebrate the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. We'll look into some of the silliest ways folks have broken the laws. Honestly, it feels more like a high-level prank than a crime. Who catfishes a city? And meets some memorable anti-heroes. There are thousands of angry horny monkeys. Clap if you think she's a witch, and it freaks you out.

He has X-ray vision. How could I not follow him? Honestly, I got to follow him. He can see right through me. Listen to Crimless on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Dad had the strong belief that the devil was attacking us. Two brothers, one devout household, two radically different paths. Gabe Ortiz became one of the highest ranking law enforcement officers in Texas. 32 years, total law enforcement experience. But his brother Larry, he stayed behind and built an entirely different legacy.

He was the head of this gang, and nobody was going to tell him what to do. You're going to push that line for the calls. Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it. When Larry is murdered, Gabe was forced to confront the past he tried to leave behind and uncover secrets he never saw coming. My dad had a whole other life that we never knew about. Like, my mom started screaming my dad's name, and I just heard one gunshot. The brothers Ortiz is a gripping true story.

about faith, family, and how two lives can drift so far apart and collide in the most devastating way. Listen to the brothers Ortiz on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Who would you call if the unthinkable happened? I just fell and started screaming. If you lost someone you loved in the most horrific way. I said through your 22 times. The police, right?

But what if the person you're supposed to go to for help is the one you're the most afraid of? This dude is the devil. He's a snake. He'll hurt you. I'm Nikki Richardson, and this is The Girlfriends, Untouchable. Detective Roger Golubski spent decades intimidating and sexually abusing black women across Kansas City,

using his police badge to scare them into silence. This is the story of a detective. who seemed above the law until we came together to take him down. I told Roger Galuski, I said, you're going to see my face till the day that you die. Listen to the girlfriends, untouchable, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You know, we always say New Year, New Me,

but real change starts on the inside. It starts with giving your mind and your spirit. the same attention you give your goals. Hey, everybody, it's Michelle Williams, host of Checking in on the Black Effect Podcast Network. And on my podcast, we talk mental health, healing, growth, and everything you need to step into your next season, whole and empowered. New Year, Real You. Listen to Checking in with Michelle Williams from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart

Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hello, the internet, and welcome to season 412 episode two of Dernelie Zite, guys! This is a production of iHara Radio. It's a podcast where you take a deep dive into America's shared consciousness, and this week, that shared consciousness got cobwebs in it. The spookiest thing that anything can have. Talking about virgins. Talking about virgins.

Don't light a candle if you're a virgin in Salem. Talking about yesterday's episode in Hocus Pocus, how everybody keeps roasting that 14. year old boy for being a virgin including his six year old sister I have not seen that movie in a while apparently oh yeah I hadn't either I saw it when I was a kid

and I was just like this standard he's getting blamed as a 14 year old as a 14 year old for being a virgin by children like that's crazy and then by a ghost of a puritan it's like even I think it's weird that this guy hasn't fucked yet famously the puritans

would not think that hence the name that's right although there is a I talked about this thing yesterday's episode but there is a school of thought that thinks that the Puritans had so many rules about not having sex because they were fucking so much Right

And there's like that eyewitness testimony It's like the obvious These don't fucking public anymore Yes That's funny that Puritans name Thackeray binks I was thinking I was like what a fucking dumb name dude Oh come on man they ate with that

Thackeray binks is like fucking That's like George Lucas level bullshit name I forgot to bring this up with the actor who plays the kid Max, I think, the main kid. He's now just like in a, like, he's just like a weed growing. Yeah, weed guy. Hell yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's better than the fate of a lot of 90s actors where they like, yeah, yeah, right.

Like shot up a gas station or something. It's like, I feel like half of the people I saw in movies that I liked as a kid and are in jail now. Yeah, I mean, the Power Rangers. Oh, God. Like half the Power Rangers, you don't. open that Wikipedia up and see it written in the past tense. You know what I mean? No. No, yeah.

Although his is, by the way. It says he was an actor and I'm like, uh-oh. But he's not. He's fully on weed, dude. He's just trying to get this weed company off the ground. Exactly. No, just respect. He's probably making so much more money in the week. I don't know. Based on looking, I was I was, I was trolling his

IG did not seem that popping. Yeah. Okay. Well, at least I'm hoping he's happy. The update was that he still keeps in touch with some of the people who were in Hocus Pocus with him. That's like one of the, and here's what we know of him now. Because they kill it at the cons. They go do signings and shit.

Yeah, they want to meet him. Here's something about Hocus Pocus I could share. By all means. I remember being very attracted to Sarah Jessica Parker's character in it when I was a kid. What's wrong with you? Why? What was going on? But I've never had that experience with any other Sarah Jessica Parker role.

Yeah. And I don't even know if I realized it was her. You know what I'm saying? I think it was the thicker eyebrows. You know what I mean? Maybe she didn't have as thick an eyebrow. Yeah, that was going to be my guess, too, the thicker eyebrows. It's like specifically the witch version of her and no other role.

I mean, I followed her body of work for many years. I was saying it's one of her better performances. Like she gives a great performance. She fully embodies that kind of dizzy, silly, off-balance character. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Do people give their flowers of Kathy Najimi enough?

Not nearly enough. She's doing like a weird mouth thing in that one where she like only has control of one side of her mouth. Never explained. Just a bit of business for herself to be doing. Kathleen Nijmi's insane pull. I don't know if you guys have IMDB in front of you or if you just have encyclopedic knowledge.

No, again, when she was in Sister Act. Sister Act. Yeah, she killed it in Sister Acts. Never forget Kathy Nejami and Sister Acts. But yeah, there's something about Sarah Jessica Parker's makeup, even though like it's pretty, it's not like she's, He's wearing prosthetics or anything, but I watched it with my family yesterday, and my wife, who's, like, very IMDB-brained and, like, has, like, facial recognition technology, and her brain was surprised that it was Sarah Jessica Parker. Yeah, never happens.

Can't catch her sleeping on. It's the darker eye makeup and eyebrows, I'm telling you. Anyways, it is Tuesday, October 28th, 2025. Oh, shit. Yeah. Three days from the spookiest day of the year. Oh, hell yeah, dude. But, of course, what are we celebrating?

Oh, it's also National First Responders Day, National Internal Medicine Day. Wow, very health conscious safety. And also National Chocolate Day. That feels more in line with the week of Halloween. It's National Chocolate Day. That feels fake. There's so many.

There's like 40 National Chocolate Day. I was going to say, I feel like there's a lot too many. Yeah, yeah. Maybe to tie those things together, a block from where I'm recording is a place that I think is very strange. It's a dispensary. It says dispensary, but it's a chocolate dispensary. they do not sell weed oh really oh yeah dispensary i know what you're talking about it's and it's a place uh i think

we've brought it up on the show too we're the before you've been on jack um but like the people in there like i've heard the owner really hates that people think there's weed in there even though dispensary to be to start a business what the fuck you're in los angeles and your business says dispensary on it it's like uh why would you think we sell edibles are these all edibles i mean yes They're all edible. It's like a guy starts a root beer store and the sign is just a big neon sign. It says, beer. Cold beer.

Everybody comes in as thinking there's Pacificos here. Right. What the fuck? What's going on? Yeah. But indeed it's just part of the like chocolate is a drug kind of vibe that people loved in the late 90s where it's like I'm a chocaholic. I can't stop. I think it's meant to just be like very just like the most by the book definition of a dispensary.

You know what I mean? It's how they look at their place. Anyway, I haven't been in. They got it from me. The weather stores got it for me. Anyways, my name's Jack O'Brien, a.k.a. Jackhammer killer, O'Dion. Quarters, courtesy of Snarfiela.

That's the Treehouse of Horrors nickname. This is, I discovered a reference to a 2004 film called the Jackhammer Massacre. I think, I have to assume. that's who the jackhammer killers about a guy who you guessed it uses a jackhammer to kill people it does sound like he's the protagonist like it's a you follow his dissent he's like a businessman and his friend dies and that like sends them over the edge so it's like a michael douglas falling down american psycho situation he is and this is a spoiler alert for anybody's planning on checking it out he is ultimately undone by the fact that the jackhammer needs to be plugged in

and it comes unplugged. God damn. Is that even true? Are they electrical? I feel like they have needs more power than that. Yeah, I would have assumed that would have just something you like edit out, but they're like,

nah, this is going to be the crux of the weird. Oh, okay, wait, no, he's probably using like a more handheld jackhammer. Right. Like, uh,

okay. Interesting. He doesn't have like a cordless makita option. It's, uh, yeah. I would, I mean, it's my probably made before the cordless era,

I guess. 2004, you'd think that, or like a gas-powered one, you know what I mean? Like, where you could do like a scary, like, rip the cord and it's like, but instead it was like, hold on, let me plug this in real quick. Like a hot glue gun. Hey, you got a 50-foot extension on you? That's what happens. The extension cord comes unplugged.

And that does sound, if I were a slasher, that does sound like the sort of shit that would get me caught up. He has to sneak into people's house and then find an outlet. He says really funny Oh fuck, it's one of the ones attached To the light switch So I have to like Turn the lights on to get this plugged in

It's a two prong It's a two prong You don't have GFCs in here? What the fuck? I'm thrilled to be joined As always by my co-host Mr. Miles Gray It's Miles Gray

A.k.a. Trump's got dementia. Trump's got dementia. Trump's got dementia. Trump's got dementia or Trump's got dementia or Trump's got dementia or Trump's got dementia. bite is dementia.

Okay, shout out to me this morning. We were talking about intergalactic. We were talking about Jack coming on. We were talking about intergalactic shit. Yeah. And then we were also talking about the, we would have also accepted another dementia. Another dementia. Another dementia.

Because we got two presidents in a row, baby. Everyone's got dementia, baby. Yeah, got to be on the hill. You got to have Brock and dementia. Congress too. Biden dementia. I'm a good dementia. Sure. Yeah, Congress, too. It's so many of them. We have the geriatric Congress night right now. It's crazy.

Yeah, no, I mean, I think people who have, who can barely know if they're going to be alive for the next three months be dictating what the future looks like 10 years from now. Get them out of here. Stayholders. Get them all out of here. I'm just going, I'm sorry, I'm agist. Get them out. Yeah. For something at a certain level. A hundred percent. Get them out of there. Ageism is just like, I don't, I'm worried for them. I don't. You got to. Every time there's a video of Mitch McConnell, like, I'm like, is he going to make it through this video, let alone the day? Like, it's harrowing. Anyways, Miles, we're thrilled to be joined in our third seat once again by the director, journalist, and host behind one of the great podcasts. It is about, as I think he put it the first time he was on, the fact that the world is queerer than many of us suppose, indeed queerer than many of us can suppose.

It's called Otherworld. He's called Jack Wagner. To be clear, I did not say that, but thank you for having me on the show. It's a pleasure, as always, to be here. I did not call my show queer. And if I did, it would be in a positive way. Yes, yeah, yeah, yes. Wait, where did you get that fake quote?

I thought, man, did you actually think I said that? I had that quote, and maybe it was something that I thought was, I think it was being used to describe the paranormal. Wait, that's me. I said that. It's giving-Miles original. It's giving pre-1900. Yes, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. But I'll take it.

I'll take it's a good quote. It's a good quote. It's a great quote that I think sums up some of my favorite parts of your podcast. Although you should start doing that to every guest is kind of like put a-up and see what they do with it. Yeah. If it's a good quote, like, I mean, sometimes you might want to take credit. Why not? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jack, thank you so much for coming back. Yeah, you've had many travels and travails since you were. last on. We wanted to have you on this spookiest of weeks. Thank you. Your podcast is so good. We're going to end up just being like, man, you remember that episode? That was crazy. I'm fine with me, and sometimes I might not remember

it, which is the craziest part. Is that true? Is that real, dude? So we're going to basically do that in the body of the episode. Hell yeah. But first, we do like to get to know our guests a little bit better by asking you, what is something from your search history that's revealing about who you are? Okay, this is, I have an answer to this. It's a layered response, though.

And this actually, it sort of caused a lot of reflection for me. I searched through my Google search history. Normally, this should be horrifying, right? Like, this is not something you want, even your significant other, to access. I was scrolling through mine, dead serious, completely dry. It would docks me, so I'm not going to let you look, but I would let you look. It's that boring.

I had to scroll three weeks back to find something interesting. Dude, I'm telling you. How mundane are we talking about? I was like literally concerned. For a bigger right foot? Not even that dry. I was just like purely looking up like addresses

and I'm like, oh, right. Dinner in Echo Park. Right. Just that. And then like kind of Googling just facts to confirm like spellings of things.

No spice whatsoever. Just nothing, no flavor, no fun. No wild cards. I was looking at this and had to go three weeks back in the history to find something you know, off color, funny, weird. I'm like, dude, I think I need to go back to my roots and get a little weirder because this is, um, the last three weeks. I don't, yeah, held a mirror up to you

that you didn't. No, and nothing even embarrassing. Damn. Nothing even embarrassing. I'm like, oh, I mean, my last ones were do, do fly's fuck. That's a great search. See, I don't even have any of that dude. And I mean, I don't know. I mean, and part of it just sort of reveals my own ignorance, but that's the fun of it, right? Just being transparent about how little I know about how flies copulate. Do they? Is it, I feel like it must be an egg situation, the larvae, right? That's what you think until I caught him banging outside on a chair I was sitting on. And I was like, how are they? How are they? Okay. Oh yeah, like straight from the, like from the back. Yeah. Yeah. Some house flies on another fly. The female uses like a egg to to like it's, it's very

interesting. Anyway. So you got nothing. Very dry. No, no. Okay. So where did you get? No, I did find one. Oh, God. Yeah. I, I'm just even looking at it right now. This is so embarrassing. I'm like looking up sponsors. Like, you know, you guys do ads. Like, I'm sure you have to go through the approvals of like brands that could be advertising on the show. I'm just Googling that. Anyway, the last. Ultra evil. Yes. But when I found that I do think it's funny, is, can water go bad? Mm, yeah. This was not a question for me, but I did want to know this was like something I was arguing with my wife about she thinks water could go bad.

I'm like, they got daze on the bottles, you know what I mean? That's the only reason I'd be like how long a cup sitting out in the house, how long sitting there until you can't drink it? I mean, you'll probably just evaporate at that point.

I'm more thinking, I guess I was thinking of like a bottle of water. Like, oh, that shit said drink by like 98. Yeah. That's another good question. I mean, if it's plastic, I would be a little concerned.

But it starts tasting like plastic is usually like my, if it tastes like plastic, usually that happens if it's like been in a car like for 15 cycles of like swelling up. 15 moon cycles? Yeah, yeah. Let me ask you that's like water, there's like a cup of water on the side of your bed.

Yes. From the night before. Yeah. Would you drink at the next night? if it was there and available and you needed it? I put that in the plants. Tastes like room. Tastes like room.

Okay. That's what I said. It tastes too much like room. It tastes like the ambient. Flies could be fucking in that. I don't care about that. It just tastes like room. It just like a overnight cup.

I don't know. Maybe I've always had that experience. When it gets a little tiny bubbles on the site? Yeah. It just gets a little stale, I guess. That's how I think. Yeah. This is just something I wanted to know, you know.

Wait, so is there an answer? No, it cannot. Like, what's the scenario that you set up? Because I forgot. Can water go bad. I mean, no, I think is the answer is no. But, like, I think it's, oh, wait, yes, water can go bad. Technically, the water itself does not expire.

The main issue are contaminants from the container or outside sources, degradation of the canair itself over time, especially if exposed to heat or sunlight. So, you know, we were not far off. Not far off. Yeah, yeah. The thing that I'm always imagining happening is I took a sip. My mouth germs have, like, somehow invaded and started to colonize the water. And it's going to just be like bad breath in there. But they're doing that inside your body, right?

Yeah, exactly. So I should be fine. But nonetheless, I'm like, I'll take a, this is for the plants now. This is for the kids. I put it in my kids little cooler. You're going to poison them with your mouth terms. Yeah, exactly. Same brain.

That's how we pass our legacy along. What is something you think is underrated, Jack? Waking up early is underrated. Waking up early. I like, I'm a big fan of waking up super early. How early we're talking? I like to be up before sunrise if possible. So mark some like Mark Wahlberg shit?

Not on that. I mean, that's crazy. In fact, I'll say, I will say that being buff is overrated. Mm-hmm. Waking up early under, that's crazy because most people that are fucking jacked dude are waking up early, man. That's right. It's you and a bunch of jacked people who are awake and moving at the time that you're waking up.

I mean, yeah, I think, you know, the gym crowd, they have to do, and there are, there are the late night gym people. That's right. Some serious jack dudes will be in there at like weird hours, like 1130 working out, you know, PM. So you got to get three hours of workout in every day, you know, you got to pick your spots. Yeah, yeah, but I would say, I'll, yeah, I'll keep with this line and say that being buff is overrated. I mean, look, I think if you are buff, more power to you. I think so much of it is genetics you know

in fact like Matthew McConaughey I think was like quoted saying that he just like kind of randomly bangs out push-ups throughout the day and like doesn't really have a routine I think it was him but it's like yeah there are guys that just kind of look like that just genetically looks great without a shirt on

since he was like 10 years old yeah and then like if you're resisting nature it's like really really hard to change it but yeah I mean I think it's overrated. Like to really be that shredded, it's like a full-time job.

Yeah, that's a lot of time, a lot of dedication. It's crazy. And we have a, yeah, training is overrated. I'll just say that. America's obsessed with training now. You know, I mean, like that's, yeah. I mean, there's like warrior ethos.

Social media, like gym talk kind of shit. Yeah, I mean, there's like the whole hybrid thing between, like, the CrossFit and, like, military adjacent. I think there's, like, a, there's, like, a certain type of person that, like, uh, works out in a stolen valor type of way. I don't know. In their mind. Maybe I don't know where I'm going with this, but, uh, you know, I think there's guys,

I think there's a huge chunk of America that they're, like, training for something that's going to, they think might happen. And it's just never going to happen. You know, it's the same thing with, like, the gun guys, training, right? The weapons, like, they're doing, like, the tactical training. You know, they're buying all the gear. They're, like, kind of waiting for the shit to hit the fan, but...

Yeah, now they just have to join ice instead. The shit rarely hits the fan. Yeah, well, now they have that, they have that outlet. But it doesn't seem like it's the buff guys or the guys who are training with guns that are doing... No, yeah, based on the physical fitness exams. Yeah, I think you could let a lot of... You could waste a lot of time training. Yeah, you know?

Yeah, everybody is... In the movies, everyone's buff now. It's just like, you know, the, like, objectively, does Iron Man, does it make sense that Tony Stark is like a jacked dude? Like, he's supposed to be just like a scientist. Because at his most potent form is some jacked iron body. Right. And like the, like he's over, he's compensating for the physical realities by creating this like metal body that can encase him. It would make more sense if he was a skinny, you know, you're right.

But instead, they were like, dude, you're going to need to spend a year getting starting to look like Superman. Drinking goat milk for breakfast. If he was in the suit all the time, he would have almost no muscle mass at a certain point. Terrible. Yeah. Yeah. Because like he wouldn't be using his muscles.

Yeah. That would be amazing. The Supervisor Victor said he would have Elon Musk's body type. That would be amazing. It's like, damn, so don't fit. Giant torso. Jarvis. adjust midsection, please.

There's, I mean, it's funny, though, too, because I think we were talking about this last week about how all the leading men are just so fucking ripped with, like, two percent fucking body fat. And I'm like, they're on gear, though. Yeah, bro, I was like, but remember like Kevin Costner was like the fucking height of it? Like, you know, American's like, oh, God, this guy

that's like he doesn't work out ever and just like that's the ideal. That's the ideal, though, I think. Yeah. Like, he's like naturally fit enough. okay here's a good Google search Kevin Costner shirtless See that would have been I'm looking at right now

I already looked There's the one with the chest hair right Oh I mean he'll Him in Bull Durham That's like That's kind of like where you want to be That's a good place to be as a guy I mean you could get a little more muscle

But you know My ideal body type Kevin Costner and Bull Durham Yeah it's like Not a ton of muscle But he's looking good You know Yeah buff doesn't work all the time though It's not bad

There's a way that there's like six-pack, if you're not meant to have one spiritually, it's like not good. You ever seen somebody that like works really hard to get one, then you see it and you're like, did not expect you to have that. And I don't know if I feel comfortable with it. What the fuck? What do you do? Yeah, you know what I'm saying? If you were seeing at the beach and it's like a really pasty dude and almost looks like he has like a photoshopped set of abs on, it's creepy. Yeah, that's Jack.

I'm just like, yeah, the the photoshopped abs. Well, you tape the photo on. your stomach but i'm just remembering the kevin cossner swimming in a uh in robin hood he's like taking a bath in a waterfall and that is the reverse of the iron man where it's like wait this doesn't make sense that he would be this jack it's he's like supposed to be the fucking hottest to do ever he's like getting out of a shower out of you know the equivalent the Robin hood equivalent of a shower, which is a waterfall, and, like, made Marion is, like, visibly

being like, oh, God. I'm looking at this now. To this dude. Yeah. Yeah. It's that dude. How are you going to say no to that? Yeah, he looks like, you know. This is normal. This is like regular. Yeah. Yeah. He's, like, extra regular. Extra meaning. But he's Robin Hood. Bring back

extra regular. Yeah. Oh, wow. Is it ass out in the movie? His ass is out. Yeah, baby. And he has tan lines. I know. Yeah. I must he should, I guess. the sun is strong out there in Sherwood Forest. All right, we're good. We've gone down. We've got there.

I imagine this is normal for your show, but yeah. Yeah, this is about. So, yeah, Kevin Costner shirtless. Underrated. Let's take a quick break, and we'll come back and talk about Ouija. We'll be right back. All right. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions,

than answers. And what is this? How is that not a story we all know? What's this? Where is that? Why is it wet? Boy, do we have a show for you? From smartless media,

campside media, and big money players comes crimeless. Join me, Josh Dean, investigative journalists. And me, Roy Scoval, comedian, as we celebrate the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals.

We'll look into some of the silliest ways folks have broken the laws. Honestly, it feels more like a high-level prank than a crime. Who catfishes a city? And meets some memorable anti-heroes. There are thousands of angry, horny monkeys. Clap if you think she's a witch. And it freaks you out.

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Like, my mom started screaming my dad's name, and I just heard one gunshot. The Brothers Ortiz is a gripping true story about faith, family, and how two lives can drift so far apart and collide in the most devastating way. Listen to the Brothers Ortiz on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your Who would you call if the unthinkable happened? I just fell and started screaming. If you lost someone you loved in the most horrific way. I said through you got 22 times.

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year ago or so and then a more recent one where you cover the phenomenon of zozo and zaza who that sounds weird it's funny it's it is funny the episodes aren't funny they're scary they are spooky i was getting spooked it's getting downright spooked to listen to those things it's kind of like it reminds me have you ever been in a meeting where like someone zoom bombs it like usually a teenager oh and you hear screaming out of nowhere fuck you and like just the worst thing they can think of. I have not, but in that, that's really funny, though. That's like such a 2020 kind of experience of Zoom bombing.

It was a real pandemic thing. Yeah. And that kind of feels like what's happening. It's like these two malevolent spirits that keep. And so the thing that is creepy about it is that you're taught, you, the format of your show is you talk to people who they then tell their story of this thing that resists sort of explanation happening to them. And so it's like almost an oral tradition. You get to hear the story from them. It adds a real layer of like, I don't know, that's, this is like, it's hard to

deny when people are like, yeah. So like I was in high school. Like this is the weird shit that I was doing. And then like this thing started happening. And in this case, like, people were fucking around with Ouija boards, and, like, they started having these, like, really dark messages come through. And it was Zozo in the episodes from last year was, like, what they kept, it kept going ZO, Zoh, Zoh. And, like, they didn't realize it at the time, but, like, you do the research. And this is a, there's a trend across people who fuck around with Ouija boards of, like, this specific thing. Oh, Zosso and Zaza is like a common Ouija board. It's like a very common thing.

Very common. There's like a movie called I Am Zozo that I think is like not very well reviewed. I think it's like 13% Rotten Tomato situation. Okay, a classic. But yeah, this is like a massive thing. And, you know, I had heard of it. Like I think I had heard of like the concept just from being on the internet or something. But it's totally something that I would completely laugh at.

and not want to do on the show. Yeah. If you were consciously making up names, those would not be the names you came up with. It sounds like a fake name that like a 13 year old girl would have been like she's like trying to write a horror movie for the first time. Like a lot like a five-year-old that lies a lot. They're like,

Zoso and Zaza. Yeah, exactly. Uh-huh. But it is weird. And yeah, I started getting a lot of emails about it. And then, you know, obviously people I ended up interviewing.

head like really intense stories that involve this and apparently it's really common for something to kind of like take over on the board and identify itself by this name and yeah I guess that was like where it turned for me is when I was starting to talk to people who like weren't aware that this is a phenomena that's known and even things that kind of like happened before the anybody was talking about this at all on the internet yeah so my read like heading in was more like I think Ouija boards are super interesting because I do think like they're you know like like skeptics will be like oh it's just like people you know moving the thing on purpose and I I tend to think it's like more they're moving it and don't realize

they're doing it and so this like part of them is being expressed that they don't have access to or like control over you know like it's like a sort of youngian like some part of and in this case it would be like a shared unconscious because they all have this same name and like this that is associated with the same like dark energy yeah which i i think like that doesn't explain everything but i do think it's easy like this this comes up a lot on our show in reference to like the the story of havana syndrome where everyone was like oh they were making it up and it's like i don't think they were intentionally making it up like i think they experienced those realities of like a

bad thing like getting hit with a sound beam or being like under attack by some like invisible force that it turns out is like kind of physically impossible to have happened but like they i know i'm sorry to force a detour but did they ever find a solution for that was there any closure It's not like officially, but, you know, you as documents have been released, the CIA themselves and like the different departments, the Pentagon like prior to the Trump takeover all seemed to be like we don't think there was any like physical basis for these attacks. And these are organizations that would seemingly love a physical basis for an attack that they could, you know, start getting funding around. Because I heard compelling explanations on both sides of it. Like, I first encountered it as something that was just complete nonsense. It was, like, evil CIA people having, like, maybe internalized guilt for the horrible things they do work. Yeah.

But, you know, but then I've also heard some stuff that was really compelling on the other side. Like, there was a, I listened to a series where it interviewed some people who had experienced it, and it sounded really intense. But anyway, you could continue with your performance. point. I didn't mean to be realized. I think that that's true. I think that they experienced harrowing things. I think the power of the unconscious mind is like the great underrated force of people's existence. And I think like ritual and, you know, all these things that we don't really make room for officially as like mattering in our world in a lot of cases, like our ways

of accessing that. And I think I just think that people are like, Like, if it's their unconscious mind, then it's, like, skeptic, skeptic view, not interesting. And I think that's actually, like, really interesting that, like, that's kind of what's going on. But there are definitely parts of the story that would make it, like, impossible for that. Like, there's one part where it predicts that they're at, like, a high school movie screening on a football field. and it is like, it predicts that the projector's about to go down and it does.

Yeah, right? Yeah, there's a ton of stuff like that. And, I mean, also the fact that in that story, this occurred before this whole Zozo thing was like a trend, like a decade before. Yeah. And then the other thing is like the basis for poo-pooing Ouija boards, as I say it's like the idiomot effect.

It's like this idea that like microscopic muscle movements in a group can, like, guide the thing, the planchette. But, and that's, you know, like, the idiomotor effect is, like, a real thing. I'm pretty sure it's been, like, proven to exist. But if you look at the board, like, Z O, like, Z is all the way at the end. O is not equally at the end on the opposite side. It's like one over. So I just think, like, if you guys, if, like, I know people explain it away by saying, like,

oh, it's just sort of like in the. downtime between, you know, the ideomotor effect spelling out a word, people just kind of like go to the side to side pattern and hit that. I'm like, I just don't think it would hit ZO or ZA for that matter. Right.

It's too specific things from each other. Yeah, yeah. It's too common. It's too common. I would expect to see other patterns of that sort. And that's sort of what I kind of come to those conclusions a lot on the show where I'm very open to looking at it both ways,

but sort of like, well, I would expect to see more. Like, same with like the Hatman stuff, right? Can we tell him the Hatman stuff? The Hatman is this very common shadow figure that people see oftentimes in sleep paralysis, but people see it not during sleep paralysis. It's just the shadow man that looks like he's wearing like a wide-brimmed hat, and sometimes he has red eyes. There's like another thing that I would have laughed at and thought was corny

until I realized, like, how common this is. And, um, but people, it's like a localized thing. Because, I mean, I've, I see it on the internet. It's like, right. So, and that's kind of what makes it sort of interesting. It's not just like, well, these group of kids over here saw it when they were fucking around with Ambien or something. It's like, no, this is a. Oh, yeah, there's that too. Yeah, the Benadryl thing. But, um, but yeah, that and then in sleep paralysis, there's like a few common things people see. The other one is like the old hag,

which is like this woman sitting on you. And then. And this is sort of the same thing, but, like, the mayor, the, is this, like, the origin for the term nightmare is this thing sitting on you and holding you down. But anyway, there's like, is it a horse, the mayor is a horse? I think at one point it was like a horse, kind of like demon thing. I think that's what it might have been. Damn. But, yeah, it's a really old term.

But there, like, pretty much every culture has a similar thing to this. and they're all similar looking, like seeing this old woman on you, or in the case of the Hatman, how widespread that is. So circling back to the unconscious talk, if it was just like the human unconscious, whatever that means, by the way,

generating this, you'd expect to see a lot more variation, especially throughout time and culture. Like, I'd be very, very surprised. You know, I just said that the whole, the origin of the term nightmare comes from this phenomenon you would expect going back that far that, like, fears would change enough.

Yeah. Why wouldn't we have, like, why wouldn't it be a Tesla? You know, that's what we get around. We don't get around on horses anymore. We get around on. So, like, why would it still be a horse? Why would it be a guy with a big hat that, like, is not a style people wear anymore? Yeah, I would expect to see more, like, micro trends with it, if that makes sense.

Yeah, totally. Yeah. And between cultures and stuff. So, yeah, that's, those are the kind of things that interest me, you know, and those two things I did laugh off at first, but then kind of reluctantly dug into them, like, oh, this is pretty interesting, actually, and frightening. So I don't really know what it is. It's funny that I, I mean, I think it's sort of a stupid name.

I wanted to think of another name for that episode besides Zaza. Like, it killed me to call it Zaza. But that's like, I don't know. I think that's interesting, though, when it's a scary thing that, like, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm normally somebody that would think it's completely stupid, but the story is compelling enough that, like, pulls me to the other side, right? And it's kind of a goofy sounding name, but this is, I guess that makes it scarier in a way. You're like, no, nah, Zaza on Zoso visiting me tonight.

Well, it is, like, something that, like, you would kind of laugh at it first, you know? Totally. I mean, I think that's kind of, like, the experience of listening to your show. Like, I remember last time you're on was kind of like, I think you were just getting into, like, the them series of episodes and like I'm I'm I'm very skeptical like I'm I'm one of those people who like even though like Japan I'm Japanese there's like very rich ghost like you know spooky culture there that I'm like now I'm not I'm not seeing any of this stuff but like in listening to your show because I mean like I remember when you're on last time you're sort of like

I don't necessarily believe in everything or at all it's more just like it's it's really interesting to hear these people describe these events that have happened. And they experienced them. Yeah. And the them one is by far one of the most fucking out there things I've ever heard in my life. If you, like give like a, you know, like a three line description of it. So people kind of understand what I'm about to like get into here. And real quick, before you were, before we started recording, you were, uh, had to answer a text

message. I have to assume it was from one of the foursons from the them. Yeah. Yeah, how did you know? I will say interesting timing. The girl from that series is visiting right now. She's in town. So I met her in person, yeah.

Bro, we've been hanging out. Do a Solvai meetup, man. You could look up, yeah. Maybe you'll see her walking around the neighborhood. Yeah, but I mean, I get, yeah, like sort of give a light breakdown because I think it's really interesting to listen whether or not you believe in this stuff or skeptical. I think it's the experience of listening to it for me. It was very interesting.

I'm glad you liked it. Basically, it's about this girl in Norway who, is kind of feeling off and basically one night while she's in college sees this strange looking like man in her room almost like a ghost

but not quite she's obviously freaked out has a lot of really strange physical sensations as well around this time and tries to power on with her life but is ultimately just kind of having anxiety about it

and tweaking as you would expect So she calls her mom in hopes that her mom will calm her down, tells her, like, I saw this thing, like, I'm feeling all this stuff, blah, blah, blah. But instead of her mom calming her down, she was like, I was afraid this was going to happen. And it was like, they're talking to you now. She's like, what? There we go. Yep.

But so she's like, what? And so her mom, you know, tells her very briefly that she's been communicating with these beings for like a long time. and is essentially, like, come home to visit and we'll talk. And at that point, she finds out that the mom and a girl from the mom's gym have been communicating with what they think are interdimensional beings for a substantial amount of time. I forget how long. And to make it stranger, this girl from the gym is the same age as Solvi.

And her and the mom have, like, become very close to the point where she becomes like a third sister to them, essentially. and like kind of doppelgangerish or like they have like a lot of martialities between them yeah yeah so it's like it gets weirder from there right but it's to me

it's I always like that like start to the story is what locked me in early on and especially meeting Soulfly I'm like I 100% believe this girl I mean it's not even a question of belief you know if you meet her and talk to her it's just like she's a very straightforward person

right this clearly happened to her and she doesn't know what it is. That's the thing that really fucked me up about it. Because, again, I was like, I'm sure there's got to be a way to explain all this. But then I was trying to look deeper as to what was pulling me in, despite being so logical when I listen to things like this. And there was something, I think,

because we live in this, like, super dumbed down, like deeply disconnected world right now, like our current, like world, this modern world, we're completely disconnected from like, you know, the land from each other, like our history and things like that, that to hear somebody describe these sort of paranormal phenomena or experiences in a way like sort of calls to something like that there's something, there's like there's a spirituality that we've lost on some level as human beings. Yes.

That even if I believe Solvye or not, hearing this person speak about these things that can't be explained that they don't understand is like pulling at something I think much deeper like in the human experience that we just completely lack now like especially because that's what colonialism does to most people like completely it's those things are seen as like pagan or savage or whatever takes the ritual and spirituality out of things and it's just like this is a materialist universe here are the laws that explain it we know everything no more mystery right to work exactly and I think there's a yearning on some level that it surely just can't be all of this just tangible shit on some level, even if you're

religious or not, that like there is something that we feel on a deeper level that we can't quite explain. And I think that's why I really enjoy listening to the show is because even then, even if I'm like, I don't know if this actually happened, but the sensation of hearing a person sort of sincerely describe a thing, whether they're like very talented liars or just people who are really being very sincere, there's just something that like is undeniable that I realize I'm like, oh, man, like, there's something about it that is, like, I don't know, like, healing, or there's a yearning that I didn't understand, like, I had deep within me, which is, like, trying to find sort of, like, these sort of threads to something, like, that isn't just tangible and just explainable, like, everything else has been in my life. I like, I like, I really, really like that reaction. And that's actually kind of, like, what I hope, the reaction I hope people have to the show, or was hoping they would have. And I think it's why I like this. stuff, you know, where I wasn't super into it. But I do think, like, when you hear something like

that, I find it comforting in a way, like, it kind of can make you feel small and, like, remind you that, oh, yeah, we really don't know anything still. Right. And especially when, like, the world is crazy or your life is crazy or anything, just things feel out of control so often in life. You know, I think there's, there's an odd comfort to hearing the most extreme version of that and being reminded like, oh, yeah, like, not only is the world completely out of control, like, it's always been out of control. Like, we don't know anything. We're just, like, kind of powerless, you know, and that's fine. It's like comforting, knowing that there are these great, great mysteries that maybe we'll understand one day, but it's okay to not know. Because, I mean, so I think I've spent my life being a skeptic, like a real.

skeptic on a supernatural things and yet uh i wear specific hats or don't wear specific hats based on what like how a basketball team that i like has performed yeah which is i think to your point about powerlessness it's like that is a thing i am completely unable to control and so i like invent this stupid way that i can control it and like believe it with my body and not my mind but like fully like, I'm like, fuck, I did something wrong on this one. Well, yes. That's what's interesting, too, because I remember, like, a lot of people to, like, shows like yours or other shows dealing with, like, paranormal phenomena.

There's, like, there are people who so deeply want to just explain why it isn't, like, and it's just like, and it's an unequivocal, no, this is fucking nonsense. And, like, I get that sort of desire. But I think that's why, like, I, that's what I found very interesting about listening to the episode. It's not me necessarily trying to figure out, like, where are the, or the holes in this story because, like, sure, I can be very analytical about those kinds of things. But I think, again, it's the idea of just that there is something we just can't

explain. And it's, and sure, maybe it's manifesting in these people saying, like, I'm experiencing X, Y, or Z. But, like, even knowing someone is experiencing that, there's something, like, intoxicating about it, too. And I think maybe that could just be because I've been, I'm such a deep skeptic about stuff like this, where I find myself not having to be, like, like, does this confirm my beliefs or does they completely blow them up? I'm, like, finding this middle thing, which is like, no, man, like, there's something just much deeper, even if it's about, like, it's not maybe necessarily interdimensional beings communicating, but we've shut ourselves off to something that, like, I'm trying to

figure out how to reconnect to it, not in like a magical way, but just something that's a little bit more outside of what is, you know, sort of academically described. Yeah, no, absolutely. And I will say this like, well, first of all, as the host of this show and somebody who wants people to just be able to listen and relax and like not being able to not trying to disprove everything, it is obviously frustrating like that type of personality who's like wants to quickly disprove things. But I will also say that like a lot of this stuff, even if you don't like believe it all the way, like a lot of times like I don't have a way to disprove it and I try, right? A lot of people are comfortable disproving something. by just like saying some bullshit and being okay with it

not being complete, right? A lot of the ways people disprove these things is just like throwing out some fucking stupid shit they heard on Wikipedia or like a podcast one time and just being like, oh, it's like this effect, you know, like I heard about that one time. It's like, all right.

And then if you really, if you really apply it and like pick it through, it doesn't make sense. Like it wouldn't hold up in court, right? Like you couldn't, if you actually had to disprove it like up to the standards of like a jury, you know, that would now work oftentimes. There's all sorts of weird little thing people toss around, like mold. A person had like black mold in their house, maybe. Maybe it was black mold in their house.

But even if it is, right? There's the fact that even someone is experiencing the world like that, I think it's just very interesting. Yeah, I would still be interested. But yeah, I mean, there's things like that that get tossed around as if we even fully understand those and Jack not to I'm not picking on you at all I do this too but like I hear a lot about people saying like oh it's just their unconscious pink playing tricks on them it's like well dude that's not even we don't even know what the unconscious mind is yet or the limitations of it so

it's like that doesn't really um I'm not satisfied with that explanation ever that gets tossed around a lot it's like well we don't know the function the complete functions of the unconscious mind how it exists we don't know if it's completely internal. There's people who think that it could be partly external. Yeah, I think that it could come from somewhere else. That opens things up. That opens the floodgates.

Yeah, young believed that there was like a shared unconscious that we like had access to that. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. That's kind of my interest in it, is that it's so unknown and, which is just as magical, the concept

of a shared unconscious and then going about to sort of bring all that to it yeah it's one of those things where like uh it's sort of like the 101 level is being the reddit atheist who just is like oh it's all fake but when you kind of like dig deeper you kind of like come out through the other side at one point you could kind of like keep digging through to the other side over and over again with this stuff um which is interesting but yeah like unconscious stuff i mean even bringing it back to the wiji board it's like if it is everybody's unconscious, like the movement on the planchette,

kind of like reaching this flow state, like that is actually what spiritualists would say is the key to unlocking it, right? Yeah. The people who basically popularize the Ouija board and like they don't actually, the spiritualists don't use that anymore, but like that era, that era of time is like would birth this, like the talking board.

But yeah, those people that believe it 100% would say that that is the key, like the group working together and that, shared. Exactly. I think it's so powerful and interesting. Yeah. It's, um, it's cool. I mean, the longer you think about it, the, the more you scratch your head with this stuff. Yeah, right. Two of the characters, like, predict using the Ouija, like, predict the exact day that, like, or the, you know, uh, Zozo predicts the exact day that their boyfriends are both going to break up with them. I thought that was funny. That is that so wild. I forgot if this made it. Either way, it's so interesting. I forget if it made it into the episode or not, but when she told me that,

I was like, do you think there's a chance that you guys just broke up with you because you were addicted to playing with a weird? Because they're so obsessed with it. But like that is what, I think it's like a drug where you're like connecting with this thing in a way that is not available to you in any other way. So like whether it's something outside or inside, I think it's, you know, powerful and interesting and way more powerful than anybody is. anyone who's doing like being like it's just their unconscious mind making playing tricks on them that yeah it's not dismissive like that actually makes it more interesting to me i think yeah but with the them series people want clean answers there's a certain type of person that would want like a clear answer to that and um they go looking for it i wanted to disprove that one i'm not disprove it i thought i was going to that confident i would find something i would like turn her over enough stones that I would find a clue, right? But I have not really even formed a theory in my mind

that like a hypothetical way to disprove it all. I'm just kind of lost, which is so spooky to me. And yeah, I don't know. That's what makes so interesting. And same with the people in it. They don't really know what it is either. I think that's why like even just like I would have,

when I was listening to, I can't wait to hear what the answer is. But then again, as again, And the sensation of listening to it isn't necessarily that I'm thinking of it, like, logically. It's more, I'm, I think it's because I'm skeptical that part of that, like, there's a certain cynicism that comes along with that. Not that it's, like, bad or anything, but this helped thaw that a bit and was just, maybe it's just for pure entertainment or pleasure that I could just go, well, we don't know everything.

And that's interesting. And I like, and I'll keep it there. It's not, I'm not going up calling my mom, be like, yo, mom, we got to get right with these interdimensional beings, man. I don't know if you hear the clicking sounds I'm making with my mouth. And I think that's sort of uncanny thing you're talking about of like the experience of listening the show is like the we used to only learn and pass information on via the oral tradition. And like that is learning, like hearing things as people experience them through their experience.

And like that's what I think is so powerful about the show. So like it's reconnecting you with like that way of experiencing these things. that, you know, we were just like, yeah, but written tradition better. And it's like, no, you're cutting out a whole very compelling way of learning about human experience. Yeah, and I think, like, to kind of close out the whole skepticism thing, you know, people who believe that there's explanations for everything, it's just we simply don't. I would love to know if we did have an explanation, like, let's just say for ghosts, like, people, there are people, who legitimately believe that, like, ghosts have been disproved. And, like, like, whether it's infrasound or, you know, mold poisoning or something,

there are people who think that's, like, case closed, this is what it is. It's just simply not the case. And what I always say in terms of that is, like, if there really was some way to make a person see a ghost, I would love to know. I would love to patent it. Yeah. Do that. Can you imagine the haunted house you could do?

Can you imagine the bag from the Universal Studios? contract. If I figured out like there's a sound frequency I could play to like vibrate somebody's brain in a way that they see a ghost. Oh, right. I'm patenting that you won't, you won't hear the podcast again, bro. I think. I'll buy a little St. James. Raytheon would be knocking at your door before Universal Studios. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Let's take a quick break. We'll come back. We'll be right back. Sure. true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers?

And what is this? How was that not a story we all know? What's this? Where is that? Why is it wet? Boy, do we have a show for you? From Smartless Media, Campside Media, and Big Money Players, comes

crimeless. Join me, Josh Dean, investigative journalists. And me, Roy Scoval, comedian, as we celebrate the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. We'll look into some of the

silliest ways folks have broken the laws. Honestly, it feels more like a high-level prank than a crime. Who catfishes a city? And meets some memorable anti-heroes. There are thousands of angry, horny monkeys. Clap if you think, she's a witch. And it freaks you out.

He has x-rayed vision. How could I not follow him? Honestly, I got to follow him. He can see right through me. Listen to Crimless on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Dad had the strong belief that the devil was attacking us. Two brothers, one devout household, two radically different paths. Gabe Ortiz became one of the highest-ranking law enforcement officers in Texas.

32 years, total law enforcement experience. But his brother Larry, he stayed behind and built an entirely different legacy. He was the head of this gang, and nobody was going to tell him what to do. You're going to push that line for the cause. Took us under his wing and showed us. the game, as they call it. When Larry is murdered, Gabe is forced to confront the past he tried to leave behind and uncover secrets he never saw coming.

My dad had a whole other life that we never knew about. Like, my mom started screaming my dad's name, and I just heard one gunshot. The Brothers Ortiz is a gripping true story about faith, family, and how two lives can drift so far apart and collide in the most devastating way. Listen to the Brothers Ortiz on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Who would you call if the unthinkable happened? I just fell and started screaming. If you lost someone you loved in the most horrific way.

I said through your shot 22 times. The police, right? But what if the person you're supposed to go to for help is the one you're the most afraid of? This dude is the devil. He's a snake. He'll hurt you. I got you. I got you. I got you. I got you. I'm Nikki Richardson, and this is The Girlfriends, Untouchable. Detective Roger Golubski spent decades intimidating and sexually abusing black women across Kansas City, using his police badge to scare them into silence.

This is the story of a detective who seemed above the law until we came together to take him down. I told Roger Galooski, I said, you're going to see my face to the day that you die. Listen to the girlfriends, Untouchable, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You know, we always say New Year, New Me, but real change starts on the inside. It starts with giving your mind and your spirit the same attention you give your goals. Hey, everybody, it's Michelle Williams, host of checking in. on the Black Effect Podcast Network, and on my podcast, we talk mental health, healing, growth, and everything you need to step into your next season, whole and empowered.

New Year, Real You. Listen to checking in with Michelle Williams from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And we're back. And real quick, it is the week of Halloween. I am just curious. I was somebody who, you know, you've connected with all these. Oh, by the way, we were talking about stupid names.

I did just want to say Pizzou, which is like an ancient. It sounds like a Gen Z slang for possessed. It sounds like a Gen Z person being like, I got Pazoo. Yeah. But yeah, that's like people think that Zozo is like maybe that. I mean, it seems like a stress to me. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Or like it. BJ's brewery. Like, hey, have you guys had our Pizzuzzoos before for dessert? Yeah. Didn't he's called a Pizuki back in the day? But I do feel like Halloween is a time when U.S. culture, like this version of the Zykeyes, gets to devote energy toward living with that like different, you know, allowing those energies to kind of come out a little bit.

And yeah, I feel like there's the skeptical thing that's like, there's just a chance to get drunk or dress up or whatever. But like, first of all, just connecting with the unconscious through mask play is like a very interesting form of therapy and, you know, a thing that I think there are interesting ways to take that what the skeptical people are talking about and be like, that that's actually really interesting. That just by wearing a mask, you like change how you experience reality and something. such a way that you, like, almost become a different person. But I'm just curious as somebody who has experienced all these stories and, like, done all this reporting, like, what, what are your thoughts on Halloween, like, on, do you think there are any icons of Halloween that are, like, particularly, like, powerful sort of pop cultural whore cruxes, you know what I mean?

Like, uh, I mean, no, personally. I mean, like, like, I am just kind of like I think it's just because of my work so I'm so desensitized you know I think it's like the way doctors like don't get freaked out by blood at a certain point or like bodies or you know and you like don't want to get naked

in front of your doctor for physical and your friend's like oh it's just skin to them like they don't yeah they even like see you as naked they don't give a fuck like I think like I've developed that kind of like callousness towards this material like it doesn't scare me anymore

in a way. I'm not trying to sound like a badass or whatever, but like... So what do you do? Like Halloween, you just be like, hey,

none of this matters. I know. I should probably... This is like, not a funny answer. I should have just lied and told you that I'm the biggest Halloween fan

or whatever. But no, it's become, you know, it's interesting. I love Halloween. I always have loved Halloween. But now I'm,

during this month, I'm so focused on, like, making the episodes the best they can. That, like, I don't have a costume. Like, I don't really have any major plans.

this is sort of like my busy month now I will say as you for Halloween you're an icon of occult shit boring costume though boring costume but I will say in terms of iconography

I mean the Ouija board scares me I think that's like a weird thing I and a lot of you know people put it you know there's like horror fans who like put them on their wall or whatever like that kind of free I wouldn't do that I wouldn't even keep one in my house

I'm just going to be honest with you that type of stuff I just like, wouldn't do it. I don't know. Wait, what's a list of things you wouldn't keep in your house based on everything you've encountered now? So Ouija board, don't bring that, not, don't leave that here. Madgey balls are good though, right?

That's just a Hasbro toy. That's fine. Most of the answers are nonsense. I don't know, like, I think, I think everybody's different. I'll just say that. Everybody's different. And, like, if something freaks you out or freaks me out or unsettles me, like, I wouldn't keep it in my house, if that makes sense.

There's been, like, some... I host the show, so I'm giving stuff, I get stuff. There's, like, there's things that just kind of, like, unsettle me. Like, I think I was, like, designing merch or something, so I went to one of those, like, breweria stores or whatever that you see in L.A. where it's, like, they sell all the witchcraft stuff, and they sell, like, weird Jesus statues and, like, dragons,

and you could buy, like, a love spell. I remember buying, like, all the weird, like, love spells, or like the clone that you spray and can make you rich. There were a couple of those that kind of like freaked me out just like the vibes. So I think I got rid of that.

A little too powerful. I feel like that's sort of my guidelines is like if it's something that's unsettles to you. You know? I look at it as more like personal, but objectively, I don't know if there's like any objective things

that I think are bad. Yeah, I think that's what's so interesting about like the paranormal is that it speaks to everyone differently. Like, whereas, like, any ghosts right here, I'm like, yeah, whatever. And then someone's, like, interdimensional being, so how I'm like, uh-huh. Yeah.

Tell me more. Yeah. I think intentions matter a lot. I know my answer kind of sounds like a cop-out or some shit. I'm just, like, making up off the fly. But I think intentions do matter just based on, like, what I hear on the show. I think, like, your own, like, vibes for lack of a better word, have, like, a big play on. things, you know. So if it's, if it's impacting you, it might impact your home, you know,

and vice versa. Yeah. And like people, there's, this is too long of a story, but somebody I know had a cursed family ring, like multi-generational curse and like things were happening related to the ring. It was an engagement ring that made them think it was still cursed. And she came to me asking, like, hey, do you anybody that could uncurse the ring? And I was like, no, I do not. I do not know. I'm sorry. A group of hobbits who are headed to Mount Doom right now. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, give them some bread and cheese and they can take it along with them, two for one. But this was a friend, her name's Rosie, by the way. She's been on the show. But yeah, I mean, when somebody, she was serious, and I wanted to give a serious answer, and I didn't have an answer for her, but what I actually believed in what I told her was, I was like, you know, obviously you're going to search around and find somebody to do this, but you should go with, like, whatever you think would uncurs it, right? Like, if you think that's a Catholic priest, you should go to a Catholic priest.

If you think it's going to be some spooky witch lady in the valley, go there. Right. If you want to the valley. Yeah, like a monk, whatever, you think you should sage it, do that. Like, I think whatever you believe the most, you know. Right, right, right. That's the most powerful is, like, your own intent. Yeah, if you're going into it thinking,

like this is not going to work. I think it's not going to work. See, Jack, that's why you wear the Sixers hat, man. That's right. And it works every time. That's why they're so good. Jack Wagner, such a pleasure having you. Thank you for coming on at this spookiest time of year when you're busy time. Working on making the show, making amazing episodes of the shows. Where can people find you and follow you? Otherworld is the name of the show. We are available anywhere you get your podcast, I suppose. Recently, it started uploading episodes to YouTube finally. So actually, if you

are listening right now, it would actually be very helpful if you went and subscribed to the YouTube, which I think it's called Otherworld Pod on YouTube, but just find it. We just had a cool visualizer made for it. So, but yeah, that's where you can find me. Is there a work of media that you've

been able to come up with that you've been enjoying? Oh, fuck. I don't know if I have a good answer for this. Is there a horror movie that you enjoy particularly. I haven't seen a good one this year. I'm so lacking in movies. The last TV show I watched was The Pit.

Do you guys watch that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great TV. Yeah. Bulletproof. I, uh, we started watching it, but, uh, my wife is a physician, and it was just like, no. It was just work for her.

Yeah, she was like, this is too much. I like the pit. I might have to go back and watch ER. Yeah. I've never seen it. Yeah, that's, that's what I've heard. that people who completed were just like, I need more of this and went back.

I can't, that can't be my recommendation. I can't recommend an Emmy winning show. That's fine. What else could I? What do people normally recommend? We've had the pit recommended before. Fuck. Yeah.

People just say like what they're literally watching right now, even if it's not interesting. It's just kind of giving people a glimpse into like whatever media they're consuming right now. But again, totally up to you. I'm consuming, dude. the show consumes me sadly. So I'm going to plug my own show

other world and I'll plug your show. Yeah, one of the banks out there. And the Dodgers. Yeah, the Dodgers. How about them? Miles where can people find you? Is there a work of media you've been enjoying? Yeah, find me everywhere at Miles of Gray. Catch me talking about 90-day fiancé on 420-day fiancé.

Catch me rooting for the Dodgers. Just within earshot of Dodgers stadium. Screaming like a fucking demon. Um, and let's see. A post I like actually from blue sky at internet hippo. B sky. Social posted they're going to change the clocks this weekend and the president is powerless to stop it because he's weak and a loser.

That's what they're saying, sir. That is a blue sky post if I've ever heard one. Let's see. I like to tweet from Eli Kromandall who tweeted, unfortunately my nervous system can't tell the difference between needing to answer some emails and being wanted for murder. And that is how I experience my life. You can find me on Twitter at Jack underscore O'Brien, Jack O'B1 on Blue Sky.

You can find us on Twitter and Blue Sky at Daily Zykeyes. We're at The Daily Zykeyes on Instagram. You can go to the description of this episode wherever you're listening to it. And there at the bottom, you will find the footnotes, which is where we link off to the information that we talked about in today's episode. We also link off to a song that we think you might enjoy. Miles, is there a song that you think that people might enjoy? joy yes yes uh just more look i'm playing ghost of yote and my favorite thing i'm playing that right now too dude just instrumental hip hop i play on my spot built in spotify so i changed the soundtrack so it's

kind of like samurai champlain but i've been listening to the madlib uh blue note record album that he did shades of blue madlib invades blue note uh and i just want to go out on a track just a mate madlib is like one of the best sample based producers out there uh this one's called distant land by Madlib. All right. We will link off to that in the footnotes. The Daily Zykeyes is a production of iHeartRadio for more podcasts from My Heart Radio visit. The IHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, wherever you listen to your favorite shows. That's going to do it for us this morning. We're back this afternoon to tell you what is trending. And we will talk to y'all then. Bye. Bye. The Daily Zykeyes is executive produced by Catherine Law. Co-produced by Bay Way.

Co-produced by Victor Wright. Co-written by J.M. McNap. Edited and engineered by by Justin Conner. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? Who catfishes a city? Is it even safe to snort human remains? Is that the plot of footloose? I'm comedian Rory Scoville,

and I'm here to tell you, Josh Dean and I have a new podcast that celebrates the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. It's called Crimeless, a true crime comedy podcast. Listen on the, iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I know he has a reputation, but it's going to catch up to him. Gabe Ortiz is a cop. His brother Larry, a mystery Gabe didn't want to solve until it was too late. He was the head of this gang. You're going to push that line for the cause. Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it. When Larry's killed, Gabe must untangle the dangerous past, one that could destroy everything he thought he knew.

Listen to the brothers Ortiz on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Who would you call if the unthinkable happened? My sister was y'all 22 times. A police officer, right? But what do you do when the monster is the man in blue? This dude is the devil. He'll hurt you. This is the story of a detective who thought he was above the law until we came together to take him down. I said, you're going to see my face till the day that you die.

I got you, I got you, I got you. Listen to the girlfriends, Untouchable, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, everybody, it's Michelle Williams, host of checking in on the Black Effect Podcast Network. You know, we always say New Year, New Me, but real change starts on the inside. It starts with giving your mind and your spirit the same attention you give your goals. And on my podcast, we talk mental health, healing, growth, and everything you need to step into your next season, whole and empowered. New Year, Real You. Listen to checking in with Michelle Williams from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.