The Daily Zeitgeist - Top 10 of 2025: #8 Ms. Piggy w/ Jamie Loftus

Episode Date: December 24, 2025

We are counting down the top 10 episodes of 2024, as voted by our listeners. At #8, we have: Icon #3: Ms. Piggy w/ Jamie Loftus In this episode, Miles and Jack are joined by writer/actor/comedian/podcaster Jamie Loftus to talk about the woman. the pig. the legend: Ms. Piggy. They'll explore her origin story, relationship with Kermit (and lackthereof with Fozzie), and her status as a queer icon?See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast, Guaranteed Human. I'm Stefan Curry, and this is Gentleman's Cut. I think what makes Gentleman's Cut different is me being a part of developing the profile of this beautiful finished product. With every sip, you get a little something different. Visit Gentleman's Cut Bourbon.com or your nearest Total Wines or Bevmo. This message is intended for audiences 21 and older. Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky. For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit

Gentleman'scuturban.com. Please enjoy responsibly. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? Who catfishes a city? Is it even safe to snort human remains? Is that the plot of Footloose? I'm comedian Rory Scoville,

and I'm here to tell you, Josh Dean and I have a new podcast that celebrates the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. It's called Crimeless, a true crime comedy podcast. Listen on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. I know he has a reputation, but it's going to catch up to him. Gabe Ortiz is a cop. His brother Larry, a mystery Gabe didn't want to solve until it was too late. He was the head of this gang.

You're going to push that line for the cause? Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it. When Larry's killed, Gabe must untangle the dangerous past, one that could destroy everything he thought he knew. Listen to the brothers Ortiz on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Who would you call if the unthinkable happened? My sister was y'all 22 times. A police officer, right? But what do you do when the monster is the man in blue? This dude is the devil. He'll hurt you. This is the story of a detective who thought he was above the law, until we came together to take him down.

I said, you're going to see my face. to the day that you die. I got you, I got you, I got you. Listen to the girlfriends, untouchable, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hello, Zite Gang, and welcome to the end of the year. During these two weeks surrounding Christmas and the new year, we take some time off. During the mornings, we'll run some new holiday and end of the year content. that you can listen to while we're taking a break.

This year, we've got our review of the year at movies, predictions for the coming year, Santa University. We look back at some holiday classics with Chris Croft and so much good stuff dropping in the mornings. In addition to all that stuff in the afternoons, where we would usually drop the trends episode, we are rerunning the 10 most popular episodes of this year, according to you. You voted with your dang ears, and we listened with our... Actually, we looked at the data. We're spying on you. Honestly, I'm mostly in this podcasting thing for the rich marketing data. It provides to me about each and every one of you. At the end of the

year, when I look back to see what made the top 10, and this was actually my favorite year to look back at, our top 10 is full of episodes. I feel like made it because of a bunch of different reasons. There are some episodes that dropped after huge news events. There are some first episodes that dropped right after some hilarious news events, some great new guests, some classic fan favorite guests, and some new formats we tried out that we're very excited to see that you guys enjoyed. Before we get into it, I just want to thank you guys for once again being such a cool community that's bloomed up around this podcast we've been doing all these years. You guys repeatedly make us proud. You're there for us when we go through some really difficult shit.

You show up at shows of our guests and we always get great reports from our guests about our listeners. You are the rare podcast audience that makes us extremely proud to have you as listeners so far. So don't, don't fuck this up, you guys. All right. And here we are. The eighth most popular episode of the year is called icon number three, Miss Piggy with Jamie Loftus. It dropped on December 1st of this year. It's one of the aforementioned new formats that we tried out. It features the always great Jamie Loftus and Miss Piggy faking an orgasm. Enjoy. I got blueberry mango. I found it the other day. I was like, all right. Blue man group. it up. Blue man

group? Blue man group? Remember those Intel commercials? Icons. They're coming. Blue man group is coming. Blue man group is coming.

Is that on your list? Blue man group? It's not, but it's just an added. Blue man group should, yeah. Blue man group should definitely be on it. Blue man grew. There's nothing funnier than a Blue Man Group

reveal. There's like a literary fiction writer who I really like, I was on her Wikipedia page and I was like, she was formally, she's divorced from a blue man. And you're like, oh, wow. You're like, that's who that book was about? That's crazy. Because they're all like these like art dudes from New York is how it started.

And then it just turned into like a Vegas. It was like such a New York thing. I felt like. Yeah, they're like like, like ex-Brooklyn guys who like needed work. And I was like, wow, she got her heart stomped on by a blue man. That hurts. I hear, uh, you ought to know is actually about a blue man. Yeah, that's right.

Alonis Moriss out of the founding blue man remember. Hello, the internet, and welcome to this spin-off episode of Dernayli Zythe Zyte Geist, which we're calling the iconograph. Instead of looking at the Zykeyes through current events, we're looking at it through the lens of the powerful pop-cultural whore cruxes that are our icons. We use these characters to create meaning, to build identity, to learn conversational French, to know the appropriate sound to make when beating the shit

out of our long-term boyfriend, which is there it is. That's right. In this episode, we're talking Piggy's. Miss Piggy, if you're nasty, and that's why I did leave it for you, Miles. With apologies to Kermit, the Frog, and David Bowie's codpiece may be the most famous and beloved

of Jim Henson's creations, Miss Piggy. I'm thrilled to be joined as always by my co-host, Mr. Miles! Oh! I! Oh, I love this. I love an episode starting off, and I'm like, it's the, it's not, no, we're habitual, habitual doing the show one way.

That's right. Great, great. I love the topic. Hey, yeah. Dude, I love a good, love a good, hi-ya. It's like an earworm. It's like an earworm of a thing. Because when you really get it, like the,

that part, that's right. It's hitting, it tingles the brain a little bit. A little tease, it is the first, it's the thing that, it's the thing that crystallized the character for Frankos when he did like he improvised that and it was like oh this is when I understood the character for the first time how many drugs are this guy on

I love it's like oh fuck yeah this is a character I found it I fucking found it well that a who you heard in the background in our third seat one of the very faces on Mount Zitemore an Emmy nominated writer artist

comedian behind many of the most acclaimed podcast like act cast ghost church the Bechdel cast 16th minute of fame she's the New York Times bestselling author of Raw Dog it's Jamie Loftus bless you Jamie hiya

yeah hell yeah it feels good right doesn't it feel good I don't think I've ever hit someone with the high ya you know yeah no yeah just like a cute thing to do to your partner as long as you don't fucking smash them like

as long as you don't actually yeah She, that felt like a powerful attack she had. Like, if she was like a... She's so much bigger than him. She's so much bigger than him and so many. Has he seen his arms? Have you seen his arms? Oh, my God.

He goes, I, there have to be ones where he just goes flying, right? Yeah, there is. There are a couple, yeah. Where he just goes flying like it's a fucking explosion in a mission impossible movie. And I'm like, and I get a YouTube, if there's like a Miss Piggy Hayah compilation, just her fucking shit up. I found one earlier. Okay, perfect. Guys, thank you so much for joining Jamie.

So, so excited to have you here for this. I did hear your Bechtelcast episode about the Muppet movie. So I was like, gotta have Jamie on for Miss Piggy because you're a piggy stand. I'm a piggy stand. I wish I was more like her. But I feel like everyone has their inner Miss Piggy. But yeah, I really need to start, you know, really. hitting people more.

I think that's what we're learning. That's the main takeaway. Yeah. If I'm a kid, that would be a takeaway. Or whatever. Vue. Yeah.

She doesn't really understand French, but she sprangles it throughout. And that's cute. Do you guys have like a singular like, oh, that's when I, when Miss Piggy was crystallized for me in your memory?

Like I was looking back and I was like, oh, I think the first time I encountered her was on those, like reading posters in elementary school classrooms. You remember like she was. And then that was the first time I encountered grown up Miss Piggy because I knew Miss Piggy from Muppet Babies. Right, right, right.

Yeah, all right. Yeah, I think my, for me, it probably starts like anyone. I was like, it was always Kermit and Miss Piggy in my mind. Yeah. So I never. I can't think of like even if I knew Kermit before Miss Piggy, I feel like to me they entered my brain at the same time, even though I think what Kermit, she didn't,

It was always Kermit first, but look, I was a kid. It was the 80s. I didn't know shit. We're going to get into it. I think my entry point to Miss Piggy, I think the first Mubbitt thing I remember seeing is Muppet Treasure Island. I have a vivid memory of getting into a big fight with my cousin because we were fighting over the kid who plays Jim Hawkins. We both had a crush on him and we were fighting over who gets to marry him. And we got the marriage rights.

And we would do that over every, like, boy protagonist in a movie. We also did it over. There was a movie called Casper, a new beginning. And there was a identical looking boy that we would just, we would hi-a-eat each other for this, like, you know, mysterious child's hand in marriage. So I remember Miss Piggy in that, Muppet Christmas Carol. I feel like I saw the movies before I ever saw the TV show. Right. Real quick, some kind of.

Con Bonafides because last week we talked about how popular Urkel was that, you know, every season from season two through seven of his show like destroyed what the most watched TV in modern times is. I think it was like pulling in 20 to 27 million viewers a week. The most viewed show currently is Monday night football at like 16 million people. I just want to read this description of The Muppet show when it was on. It aired in over 100 countries and had a weekly worldwide audience by 1978 of 235 million people. No fucking way. Stop! It was everywhere. It was like so global. I feel like maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like up until fairly recently, I feel like it was sort of difficult to find old episodes of the Muppet Show. I didn't see them until I was in college.

And the guests they were pulling was like. Yeah. So, I don't know. I feel like whatever, we don't have monoculture at all anymore, but particularly like monoculture that was pulling so many different kinds of people as the host. Like I've, I had the, the Rudolph Norev episode had a very strong impression of, he like, they would have like ballerinas hosting the Muppet show. High culture.

To 235 million people. That's nuts. It is a weird mix of high and low. And then just for, for my example. example, the thing that proves to me the lasting power of like how iconic the Muppets are, something we were talking about was, there's that LCD sound system video for dance yourself clean that like every white guy is like, have you seen this, have you seen this YouTube video? It's like for Dance Yourself Clean, but it's got Muppets in it. And the video

like objectively sucks. It's not a good video. Was it like a few days ago you brought it up and we started watching it. And I was like, I had never seen it. I was like, Jack, this. Brian or Justin brought it up and was like every white guy. I've been shown this by like three different white guys. And I was like, me too. And then we watched it and we were like, this sucks.

Yeah. Brian said Sidney Poitiers, like the guests they would have on the show were absolutely like. Insane. Yeah. And everyone is having the time of their lives because how could you not? Like, it's just so cool. Harry Belafonte, another really good episode. Right.

Brian said made that up for attention. I just thought the image of Sidney Portier acting in a trash can. It's funny. He could have done it. Right. He was so dignified, you know? It's like, come on, Sydney.

Get in the fucking trash can. Now, we can't believe anything you say in the chat, Brian. What the fuck, you know? Oh, shit. Wait. I, okay. I feel like I remember that. Yeah, the new Mandela effect.

The city. The part when they had Nelson Mandela on. Yeah. After he died was crazy. Right. Yeah. It's true. As the Berenstein bears.

Well, the Harry Belafonte episode is genuinely great. Yes. All right. So, Miles, to your point of like, Kermit was first and then Miss Piggy, she was invented in 1974. Kermit came around in 1955. Ralph the dog 1962 and then Miss Piggy's

like the next kind of iconic character but Ralph the dog was like invented for a dog chow commercial it seems like a lot of these things were like invented on an as needed basis they were like I don't know we need a we need a girl one let's do it let's do a pig and then they like kind of iterate

on it but it's Kermit is old as fuck first of all like borderline problematic that they had a relationship but then 75 animal, Sam the Eagle, Statler and Waldorf, the Swedish chef. 76, we got Fossey, which we can talk about Fossey. Interesting. But, yeah, they just seem to do it on an as-needed basis, and then, you know, now that

puppet exists, and now we can, like, do stuff with that puppet. But I want to talk before because, you know. I like the way, the interesting phrasing, interesting phrasing. Now we can do stuff with that puppet. We can do stuff with that puppet. No, we can do that. We can think about it. We can create backstories as we'll get into.

You can get it. Yeah, now we can do some stuff with that puppet and we can think about it. Yeah. I feel like Rolf the dog has fallen off in the public. Low key. Lokey. I don't dislike Rolf as I dislike Rolf as I dislike other Muppets. Yeah, we'll get to that.

But I think he's falling off a bit. Not a huge Fossey fan, from what I've heard. Not a huge Fossey fan. Fossey's triggering for me. Miss Pigg, for some reason, this hack stand-up comedian is triggering to somebody who... I can see Fossey whenever. I look at, I can't see Fosie if I look in the mirror. I can't see, I can't be around Fosie.

I see five Fosies a night. It's all Fosies. Miss Piggy wasn't actually a Jim Henson creation. She was actually designed by Bonnie Erickson, who this is somebody that I didn't know about coming into this. She also, like, she's invented a bunch of the mascots that are, like, still roaming NBA stadiums to this day. Really? Maybe her, like, right up there with Miss Piggy, depending on, like, who you're talking to. The Philly fanatic mascot.

She designed the Philly Phenetic. Oh, that makes perfect sense. because the Philly Fanatic does feel like something off a Henson show. Yeah, it has Henson vibes and she was I think like the director of the workshop but on

designing the Philly Fanatic she said the managers approached us to design a mascot who could encourage fans to bring their families to the games so we had to design a character who was child friendly who was playful and a little irreverent but not too silly we heard from the Phillies that their crowd had booed the Easter Bunny

it was a challenge to come up with something that was not going to talk down to their audience. That is when you think about it. Honestly. She created a silly billy child Muppet mascot that Philly has just

completely embraced is such an accomplishment that we just like take for granted. And then when did the Philly Fanatic launch? Was it like around the same time? Around the same time. She was just like fucking on fire for like four years.

I mean she created Stadler and Waldorf. she created a bunch of like really iconic characters and she created miss pig so miss piggy's name was originally miss piggy lee as a reference to peggy lee uh who was a jazz singer who i wasn't that familiar with i went and listened to like her top songs on apple music and uh they're either christmas songs or like wildly depressing oh yeah like rocking around the christmas trees peggy is that peggy I was like, am I confusing? Who did fever? Is that Peggy?

Fever is her. So that's her. That's her. But then she has this one called, Is That All There Is. Oh, I love that song. Yeah. It's so dark. It tells the story of like being at a Christmas party or at a birthday party when you're young.

And like, is that all there is? And going to a circus and being like, is that all there is? And then she's like, and I know what you think. I'm going to kill myself. But I know if I killed myself as I was like, like going to the pearly gates, I'd just be like, is that all there is? It's really dark shit, which there's a lot of, like, dark stuff in Piggy, like, written into her backstory that I was not familiar with, didn't read to me.

I wonder if Peggy Lee ever, like, got, like, met her. Because I get it. I get why they didn't keep. Uh, she sued them. Wait, she actually sued them? Yeah, that's why they had to, yeah. She said, she threatened to sue over the puppet. so Miss Piggy Lee became simply Miss Piggy.

Well, like, now you'd be honored to have Miss Piggy associated, but untested if they're like, so there's this pig on TV and it's you. Yeah. I get it. Blonde hair like you. She's like, my songs are already depressing. Right. She used the shit out of her boyfriend.

She started out, she's incredibly abusive. She started out, like as sort of a background character, she was in, like a sketch about Planet of the Apes, where it was like Planet of the Pigs, and she was just like one of the characters. She had like little button eyes. She didn't have her big like beautiful colored iris

eyes. Like a doll's eyes. Like a doll's eyes. And she didn't sound like herself yet. She was at that time played by Jerry Nelson doing just like a real standard guy doing a girl voice. It was just like, I'm a girl.

Muppet. he he la la la it's just like you did it that well yeah yeah yeah I know it wasn't quite that good sorry I'm a professional voice man um but yeah I'm a voicemont I'm a voiceman but it does I mean like I was saying the uh so eloquently before about how they create the puppet and that puppet exists and now they can do stuff with that puppet I I do it's it kind of reminds me of like SNL talent Jamie one of my favorite of your obsessions of is like when an S&L person like shows up on the thing and then two years later they look completely different they got the veneers they got the veneers they got the glow up they literally I like to like

Lord Michael slams your head against the table and he's like I guess you need new teeth don't you do you need new teeth now but I feel like if you can make their eyes bigger he probably would right oh yeah yeah give him the what you want to call it what's that movie

the clockwork orange Give them the fucking orange. Yeah. But also this is second week in a row where we're covering a character who became arguably the most iconic thing from their world and who starts out in the background

and then we watch as they just like grow and grow as the public responds more and more to them. But yeah, I just, I do think in terms of like why we have Miss Piggy, it's like having the multiple projects, iterating. and then when they needed a female character,

they went to a woman who just, like, happened to be a genius and was, like, inventing huge chunks of popular culture in, like, just a few short years. That's so... I still can't get past 235 million people, yeah. 235 million people. That is just, like, wow, okay, that's everybody. That's, isn't that every person?

That's everybody. That's so many people. Everyone in the world. That's so many people watching puppets on TV. Like, that's nuts. I mean, because it is also, I mean, like, when you think about it, Urkel had 20-something million for a few years in America versus 235 globally. And you're like, oh, that's why, like, I feel like, children now, like, you could show a kid in wherever,

of most places, like, do you know this character? And they'd be like, Miss Piggy. And I'm like, do you know who this is? And they're like, that's a man with suspenders on. Right. I'm like, that's Herkle, but that's fun. on, you're just not cultured. Well, I'm also sure, I'm guessing, I mean, I don't know much about like Muppets internationally,

but it must be like, they're so, it's like such a double-ball show that it's got to be super easy to adapt to basically anywhere. Yeah, puppets. Puppets are great. Puppets are great is also one of my conclusions that I come to. Like I was saying, her breakout moment came when Oz improvised her trademark karate chop during a scene with Kermit. Originally, the script called for a slap, but he decided to go with a karate chop, which then allowed him to, uh, his quote is, the script called for Piggy to slap Kermit instead of a

slap. I gave him a funny karate hit. Somehow that hit crystallized her character for me, the coyness hiding the aggression, the conflict of that love with her desire for a career, her hunger for glamour image, her tremendous out and out ego, which it's just interesting that that was so foundational for him because it's also the first thing like my brain spits out when I like think of Miss Piggy if I like have to think of her doing something. It's the karate chop. It's so good. I love hearing like actors talk about like their silly ass character because it has to be so, I mean, and it is important, but like it has to sound so important. My favorite example of that is, do you guys remember when Bill Nihy played Mew two in Detective Pikachu? No. I mean,

I know Bill Naïes. Well, he did. And I love, sometimes I'll go back and watch his interviews about that movie for fun. Because he's just like, when I thought about me too, and you're just like, you're like, yeah, man, you sound like an idiot, but that is your job. Like I just love that, yeah, like Frank Oz is like, how does the pig think? Where is she coming from? Yeah, but him to be like, and then this is it, her frustration. and she's trying to balance it all.

Her career, her love life in this high-ya. I'm like, did you really think that at the time? No. It was just sort of like your instinct as a performer. I do think that's what's, okay. Yeah, because I think a lot of the cases, these moments of inspiration for these iconic characters come when they're like, like in this case, it was just like I needed to do a thing and I did this instead of

the thing that the script called for. And then like it like kind of all comes together with Urkel. Like we were talking about he like at the audition, he was like, I don't know. Like I went out of body. Like I blacked out and like came to and I was like, uh, everyone was laughing. Yeah. Right. Like that's also like Elvis, the character of Elvis, which like wasn't how he actually was as a bit because he was like tanking this like, he was like trying to sing a song and it was like all serious and sat. And everyone was like, this guy fucking stinks. And then he like started goofing around and doing the Elvis voice and

people were like, do that. Like I think I fucking, this is amazing. This guy rules. This guy's I want this guy to fuck my daughter. But I feel like it's like the creator needs to get out of their own way or something to like then have it all like come together. Right. But yeah, so Frank Oz ends up being the person who plays Piggy. I always thought it was because Piggy and Foszie fucking hated each other. But Oz actually plays both of them. And so that's why they're never around at the same time.

Jamie, do you think there's any way this is the reason you hate Fawz? Um, because if Fossey's on screen Fossey's like literally getting in the way of Kermit and Piggy. More Miss Pee. I just think Fawzy like needs to hang it up. Like I just, it's hard for me. You think it's because he fucking sucks. Is that why?

Well, I think he's really, he really stinks up to place for a number of reasons. But like if all, like a lot of the early Muppets movies are about them trying to make it big. And it's like Fuzzy is an act of him. I'm not rooting for his success. He's not going to make it. He's not going to make it and he's getting in everyone else's way. And I need him to move back home. Where do they?

Because I forget in the Muppet movie where he gets picked up. Where they start from? Yeah, I forget. Yeah. It's like somewhere, isn't he along the way? Don't they like, doesn't Kirkman find him somewhere along the way? Like, bombing at an open mic. Yeah.

And it's like, go back. At the El Sleezo Cafe, I think is what it was called in the Muppet movie. Fossey's got to go to grad school and like he just has to pack it up. He bums me out. I just love you would be a character in a Muppet film who plays like the bad Hollywood manager who's like, look, Kermit, you got to get rid of Fazi. He's getting in the way. He's an active hindrance to your career, kid. Pity's a star.

Kermit, you've got a natural charisma. But Fuzzy's my friend. Oh, fuck. God. Get rid of this fucking. become the manager. Isn't that like where managers come from? Is they like fail? And then they're like, well, I hang out with these

people. Let's get Fossey an internship at WME. Let's just figure something out. Start off in the mail room. Yeah, work your way up. He could be turtle. But Fuzzy, I bet if you asked Fossey which entourage character he was, he'd be like,

oh, I'm kind of a Vince type. They're fucking not, dude. Are you fucking kidding? Yeah, Fossey and, and I don't know, I think especially if, I don't care if you like Fossey, if Fossey's your favorite, let's talk because what does it mean?

Fossey can't be anyone's favorite. No, right? At this point, no, no, I remember because Fossey, to me was like bummy. I didn't like his energy. I didn't like his fucking tie or like scarf thing. They were just, he didn't appeal to me.

Like, I was Kermit gang from the beginning. Yes, absolutely. Kermit has There's something about him There's just something about that guy We do ask on every episode Like if they actually existed in reality In our world

Would this icon have been on the Epstein Flight Logs? Fossey? As we've already covered Miss Piggy, not on the flight logs No But take another look for Fuzzy I'm just saying like there's

It's only a matter of time Like a failed comedian like he Fossey would be on fucking kill Tony A failed Canadian who refuses to be in the same room as Miss Piggy as the woman in the group Fossey would do a private event at Mar-a-Lago he would have no issue about it

and then he would say business is business he's like exactly he's like welcome to the Foston Texas comedy scene is what he'd be telling people yeah yeah he's lawless he's like like all bad comedians he's gonna have to he's got you know the only way for him to be successful is by going full fascist. Oh, yeah, yeah, whatever.

And even then, they're like, this guy fucking stinks. Yeah. It's big game season. We're taking down Fossi. Fossey Bear, put his head on my wall. I'm Stefan Curry, and this is Gentleman's Cut. I think what makes Gentleman's Cut different is me being a part of developing the profile of this beautiful finished product with every sip, you get a little something different.

Visit gentlemen's cut bourbon.com or your nearest total wines or Bevmo. This message is intended for audiences 21 and older. Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky. For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit gentlemen's cuthuburn.com. Please enjoy responsibly.

Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? And what is this? How is that not a story we all know? What's this? Where is that? Why is it wet? Boy, do we have a show for you. From Smartless Media, Campside Media, and Big Money Players, comes Crimeless.

Join me, Josh Dean, investigative journalists. And me, Roy Scoval, comedian, as we celebrate the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. We'll look into some of the silliest ways folks have broken the laws. Honestly, it feels more like a high-level prank than a crime. Who catfish is a city? and meet some memorable anti-heroes. There are thousands of angry, horny monkeys. Clap if you think she's a witch.

And it freaks you out. He has x-ray vision. How could I not follow him? Honestly, I got to follow me. He can see right through me. Listen to Crimless on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Dad had the strong belief that the devil was attacking us. Two brothers, one devout household.

two radically different paths. Gabe Ortiz became one of the highest-ranking law enforcement officers in Texas. 32 years, total law enforcement experience. But his brother Larry, he stayed behind and built an entirely different legacy. He was the head of this gang and nobody was going to tell him what to do.

You're going to push that line for the cause. Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it. When Larry is murdered, Gabe is forced to confront the past he tried to leave behind, and uncover secrets he never saw. coming. My dad had a whole other life that we never knew about. Like my mom started screaming my dad's name and I just heard one gunshot. The Brothers Ortiz is a gripping true story about faith, family, and how two lives can drift so far apart and collide in the most devastating way.

Listen to the Brothers Ortiz on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Who would you call if the unthinkable house? happened. I just fell and started screaming. If you lost someone you loved in the most horrific way, I said through y'all 22 times. The police, right? But what if the person you're supposed to go to for help is the one you're the most afraid of? This dude is the devil. He's a snake. He'll hurt you. I'm Nikki Richardson, and this is The Girlfriends, Untouchable. Detective Roger Dr. Golubski spent decades intimidating and sexually abusing black women across Kansas City,

using his police badge to scare them into silence. This is the story of a detective who seemed above the law until we came together to take him down. I told Roger Galoopsky, I said, you're going to see my face till the day that you die. Listen to the girlfriends, Untouchable, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. So to your point about how seriously sometimes performers take their roles, Frank Oz, like, says that, like, Piggy is his, he thinks Piggy was so successful because she's, like, got the most depth and the most going on.

And he wrote a four-page Stanislavskiy and, analysis of Miss Piggy's life that is like so dark. Wait, did she have like a Charles Entertainment Cheese style story? Yeah, she has kind of a fucked up backstory. All right, Frank Oz, although Miss Piggy's essentially humorous, to me, she's had a sad,

difficult, painful life. This is not for the audience to know, but the puppeteer should know the background of any good character in order to be able to improvise. I thought we would get like an extensive martial arts background. but it's actually, like, depressing dust bullshit. According to Oz, Piggy grew up in a small town.

Her father died when she was young. Her mother wasn't that nice to her. She had to enter beauty contests to survive. She has a lot of aggressiveness, but she needs a lot to survive, as many single women do. She has a lot of vulnerability, which she has to hide because of her need to be a superstar. He also said that Miss Piggy's father chased after other soes and her mother had so many piglets. she never found time to develop her mind. I'll die before I live like that.

Piggy screamed. She then left for the city and got a job wearing a sandwich board for, and this is where it gets like really fucked up, for a barbecue stand and entered a beauty contest under the name Laverne. Her big break was a bacon commercial, which led her to a job as mascot for a local TV sports cast called Pigskin Parade. And then she got on the Muppet show. Just like so much cannibalism packed into the last, like, two paragraphs.

Oh, my God. Obviously, this isn't for the public to know. This is for the performer to know. She feasts on the flesh of her own. Her mom was so busy breeding that she didn't have time to develop her mind. That left her mind. Holy shit. My God.

I thought I was going to end like fucking grapes of wrath. It's like, and she had to breastfeed a dying man. That took a turn. That told me a lot about Frank Oz. I think that is a really interesting paper about where he was at that time. That is so brutal. I do like that. I rewatched a little bit of it this morning,

like a really good video essay about Miss Piggy by Be Kind Rewind on YouTube. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I love her channel. I like rewatched the first couple of minutes and I was like, I got to save it for the pod. I was just hide on the pig today. But, like, yeah, like how that story is, like, that's way darker than I was aware of. But it does feel, like, mapped on, like, an old school, like, I'm just a little girl from a little town.

And I had a hard time. And here, you know, it's like a Marilyn Monroe kind of, like, I, sure, I took some pictures when I was a young pig I wasn't proud of. So what? Yeah. And, I mean, maybe that's what the, like, cannibalism is, you know, or the, like, having to sell yourself. out. Like, I think there's probably, like, some metaphors in there that are just, like, incredibly dark.

The, I don't, I don't have an issue with that. Her mom catching a stray like that, that was harsh. That was really harsh. Her mom's a dumb bitch. That was really, that was a fucking figure anything out. Anyway, so Fazi's actually, what if his backstores like, so Fazi's like actually like a sick comedian, dude?

Like, everybody loves him. He's so fucking funny. When he enters a space, he lights up the fucking You wish she could get with Fossey, but unfortunately, I'm both of them. The comedic voice of a generation isn't always recognized right away. And sometimes it takes sometimes. My hope is that posthumously Fuzzy will be recognized for his contribution. He's really the Van Gog's parents are like puppeteers, like kind of like renegade.

Really? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, Puppet Nepo. That's fun. That's fun. They like escaped like a like heart. Holland or something in World War II

and like his parents had puppets that mocked Adolf Hitler I was just reading they like some of his they were like about that shit as puppeteers yeah yeah holy shit okay the puppet is mightier than the sword as they say you know the best way to criticize

to make a fool of people in power one cool detail that I think I actually got from the Be Kind Rewind episode was that the reason she always wears pink and purple and, like, aqua and, like, those colors is because based on this backstory, a psychological aversion to the earth tones that she lived with on the farm.

Wow. So that, that's like the sort of thing I was looking for, you know, it's just like, and here's like a fun design detail that, like, we explain with, and it's like, she was in a commercial for bacon. Yeah. Right. We're in a sandwich board. Yeah.

Frank Oz is, like, the coolest, one of the coolest people that ever do any. thing. I was like the fact that he co-created Miss Piggy and then directed Little Shop of Horrors and like Bowfinger like it's just nuts. The Stefford Wives that movie? Okay, maybe not that one. We can forget that one.

This is a couple. We can skip a few. But like Little Shop of Horrors, come on. That's great. That's good stuff. It's amazing. Oh yeah. And Yoda, I guess. The fact that Yoda's number three on the list is impressed. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Behind Miss Piggy and Fossey. I think that, like, I want to get to this later, but the fact that they are one of the few fictional characters that can, like, show up to Prince Charles's coronation, and it, like, makes sense, which kind of makes sense. But, like, I feel like the Henson company, like, treated them as if they were real, which is maybe why they're, like, the only fictional characters will accept Israel, almost. I was thinking this this morning. So, like, there's a new Miss Piggy movie coming out at some point, which is like...

Super excited about that. I didn't know about before today. I was so excited. I was talking about it. Written by Colescola. Yes. And produced by Emma Stone and Jennifer Lawrence. It just makes sense.

But I was like, okay, so we're assuming, if we're going to say that movie is going to be nominated for a lot of Oscars. Right. Yeah. Does Miss Piggy? get nominated for an Oscar? Especially if Ms. Piggy is still voiced by a man, Miss Piggy gets nominated for the Oscar, right? It doesn't work if Miss Piggy's not nominated for the Oscar.

But, I mean, the gender lines in award categories are ridiculous anyways. But like this unique case, you're like, what do we do? It is funny. It's like a Supreme Court case that changes everything. It's like, and in this scenario, how do we move forward? We've actually, there is precedent. Speaking of the Supreme Court, there is precedent for this. Because, well, so she really becomes a superstar with the Muppet movie in 1979, you know, does the karate chop moment of, like, realization, Frank Oz goes back and, like, writes this horrifying backstory. And suddenly she's a fully formed character. And the Muppet movie comes along. And everyone is like, who is that? Like, they, I mean, they knew her from the show. But, like, she really, like, I was watching the Siskel and Ebert review of the Muppet movie. And Siskel is like, I only like.

the movie when she was on screen. Like I, he was like so smitten with Miss Piggy. He also like, he's also like, I have the part where they like flip her upside down and you see how bigger thighs are. It's like, oh my gosh. Easy, man. It's a puppet, honey. Cool. Cool.

There was a fan led campaign to get Miss Piggy and Academy Award nomination for Best Actress. Two fans in Cincinnati launched Campo which stood for the committee to award Miss Piggy and Oscar. They received 35,000 letters of support and delivered them to the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences.

In response, the Academy made this statement, which I just have to include for like just a massive L. While the Academy does not participate in the pork barrel campaigns, which are an unfortunate part of the annual Oscar campaign, we do wish you appropriate success with your commendable support of such a weighty candidate of Academy honors. Oh, guys, get fucked, honestly. That sucks so much. That sucks so much. That sucks. She, I mean, Miss Piggy has to have been gone to the Oscars before.

She has. So she at those Oscars presented or I think introduced Rainbow Connection, which was nominated that year and did a bit about how she like couldn't fucking believe that she wasn't nominated. Which was like really good. It was her and Johnny Carson. And insult her in the same, it's just that's nasty. Backhanded. And she, so 1979, big year, was on the cover of People magazine, which referred to her as the Muppet movie's new sex goddess. The late 70s were like so weird.

I don't know. So she talks about how the queen tried to fix her up with Prince Charles better than Prince Andrew. Thank God. Oh, God. That would be a real. stain on the, that would, that would not bodewall for the flight logs either. Yeah, that would have been bad. She wouldn't have been on there, ma'er.

She would have chopped the shit out of him. That's true. Yeah, he wouldn't have made it. She maybe she could she would have killed him. Oh, yeah. There you go. The article also suggests, Elliot Gould suggests that he fucked Miss Piggy in it. He says, I turned down Miss Universe, but I couldn't turn down Miss Piggy. That actually,

that pairing, I feel like Elliot Gould does have like a little bit of curmit about him. I feel like she's got a type. Yeah, for sure. She's got a type. You got that frog in him? He's got that frog in him. Late 70s, early 80s, it's such a weird.

Yeah, good guy who fucks. But everybody, I feel like everybody in the late 70s had like guy with a ponytail from a documentary about like orgies energy where they're just like, we're just here to enjoy each other's bodies. And like, you know, it's cool. Like, it's just like, uh, like I don't.

That guy's always there. And he's like, oh, God. it's yeah it reminds me of that there it's like a kind of an older video now but chris fleming made a great song about polly couples years and years ago where it's like it's never the person you want to be polly who's poly it's a guy being like i have a hundred board games at my house but in this case we're talking about elliot gold which i would i'm on board with miss piggy and Elliot Gould. I love that rumor. Yeah, that would make Kermit jealous, too.

Oh, hell yeah. Yeah. We'll get to their relationship, but it's, I don't know, going back and re-watching some of the stuff, I was like, I don't love how he treats her. Like, obviously, like, there's a big, like, re-examination of her, like, hitting him. But also, he's, like, kind of a dick sometimes to her. Like, I feel like he's trying to put a wedge between him so you can move in on this big. Like, I don't know, girl, like, I feel like she could do some.

much better. Whoa. You're like, like me, for example. So I'm just saying. I don't know. I don't know.

I got like a hundred board games back in my place. I haven't taken my hat off yet, but I'll let the ponytail drop out in a little bit. That would be absolute. A ponytail reveal would be nuts. Shaking it out too. This is who I am. Like when the nerdy character takes the pencil out of their hair and like an 80's like,

oh God, they're like, whoa, long hair. But it's kind of perpetually wet ponytail. Yeah, yeah, just like a greasy-ass ponytail. It doesn't really, like, flare out. It's just stuck together a little bit in like a pig's tail movie. People magazine, I also just like this detail from the article because it was the late 70s.

And they said the gossipists claim that Piggy might be pregnant or had a drinking problem or perhaps a Coke addiction. Because certainly she has the equipment to be snorting something. I do just like that Coke was a. fun drug back then like weed they're just like we're all doing it wouldn't it be cool to snort choke with giant pig nostrils? Oh my

God. I wonder do you think if you're people pulling out that puppet like at parties and being like yo dude let's fucking do a line with Miss Piggy they're like hot guys I really shouldn't it's really for performances. They're like come on dude pull her out of the case let's do a couple rails with Miss Piggy. I feel like she she would do it as

in the 70s she did it as a party trick. At parties, Frank Oz was definitely doing it. He'd be like, oh, he was doing it. And you're like, and is that a fun energy to bring? I feel like it sounds fun, but when it actually happens, you're like, man, this is not good. We, you've got to get

home. It's truly like 10 minutes after is the high is wearing off. You're like, damn, what the fuck am I doing, man? You can't do, you can't do a pig's dose of coke. What is this, man? I'm looking at the, the Muppet Wiki is unbelievably thorough. I just like...

Oh, yeah, it's got its own. It's like Wikipedia. Like, it's its own whole universe over there. Because I was curious, I'm sure we'll talk about it, but how, like, Miss, like, the Academy Awards thing. Like, the way that people talk about Miss Piggy's body is so, like, charged. And, but, like, she never talks about herself that way, which I love about her. She's, like, so confident and amazing.

But there's a whole page on Muppet Wiki that says Miss Piggy's weight. And it's just a list. of hundreds of reference. I was like, who did this? Who did this? And can I, I don't know.

For certain Wikipedia pages, you're like, this is against God, but I do appreciate the third of this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was introduced

to a whole new generation with Muppet Babies. Did you guys watch Muppet Babies? Was that before your time? Yeah. I love Muppet Babies. The Misses, the Miss Piggy Muppet Baby

is like a little too sexy for me. Yeah. What's going on there? Did, did you guys like Muppet Babies? I didn't, I didn't watch it growing up. I was like, I think, I mean, I was so, it was one of the first cartoons I remember watching. Yeah, I was like a baby. Muppets. Yeah. And then there was the cartoon. I was remember there was like a kind of, there was like a reference to Star Wars and like the opening that I really liked that I was like obsessed with. Other than that. Yeah, it was the opening is the thing is the iconic thing and then Nanny's legs. Like they had a overseer who, you, You only saw her like weird green stockings.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, like Charlie Brown style, right? Yeah. Yeah, you just saw her like calves and it was like very mysterious. I love that. They did that on cow and chicken too. That was like when I really loved. Yeah.

I love when it's just the legs. That was a Marvel joint, by the way. Marvel Comics Animation Department technically made the Muppet Baby. So that's the first. Just because it was like the cheapo animation style of the day. They were probably like already making. you know, a Spider-Man comic. And we're like, what about, what about this?

What if we made the Muppets sexy babies? There's a lot of weird continuity stuff in there. Like, there's a reveal that Statler and Waldorf are the Muppets' uncles. But, like, I don't think we need to, like, get too into continuity because I don't, like, I think the premise is that, like, the Muppets are all actors. Like, this is just a S&L style, like, thing where it's like, they're just playing different versions of themselves. and you like never know what's real

so you don't have to like worry too much that Statler and Waldorf are actually just the worst uncles of all time. Right. I'm worried. Did you ever see that Scott Gairdner cartoon Tiny Fuppets? Yes. Oh, yes.

That was so funny because it was like the off-brand Brazilian Muppet babies when it was called like Cormit and Gonsor. And Miss Piggi was just called I think he was just Miss Walser. or something. Oh, shit. It is, well, Miss Pecky is probably the best case scenario of, like, the Mrs. Lady character, right?

Like, there, it really isn't, I can't think of them or, because it's like, they try to emulate it a bazillion times or, like, I don't know, I always go back to Chuckie cheese lore, as I want to do. And they have a Mrs. Lady character. Like, you always have to have one girl, not even because you care, but so you can make pencil boxes for girls. Right, right, right. But Ms. Piggy, like, they just, there was something in that Coke that was special.

Yeah. Brian, I'm going to have to ask you to stop putting pictures of a Foszie Bear next to Burt Kreischer in the chat. It's too distracting. They do both wear brown hats and no shirt. Well, I don't sell Brian's hard work short. He's finding exact poses that are identical. It's a great comparison. It's like, it's alarming.

That's crazy. Burt Kreisner just modeled his career off Fazi. That's wild. I had no fucking idea. Got to have a backstory, man. Got to have a backstory. So Miss Piggy is seen as an LGBTQ plus icon, which is wild because it started from a place where Frank Oz.

And we'll get to a quote from Marlon Brando that I think will kind of put some of this into context. but he once told reporters about how Piggy takes over and when he talks about her he will become her using her voice and even adopting her personality and then added

but let's get it straight that I'm straight it's like okay all right man cool I really they're okay

he keeps telling on himself in really weird ways I know I know what other artists were like I sculpted the David out of appreciation for the human body

just because I spent three weeks on the dick doesn't mean I'm not straight yeah look at his biceps though oh look at those things man sick right sick i'm straight only a straight guy could do that you gotta be straight you understand dude a dick like that um after he became a successful film director

he was still associated with miss piggy when he directed the 2001 crime movie the score an annoyed marlin brando would reportedly only refer to the director as miss piggy just like okay that's brutal I just feel like the 70s, just anyone who was famous in the 70s was just like broken by toxic masculinity.

They're just like never recovered. That's, yeah, that's a bummer. Yeah. Especially, oh, man. I don't, I don't know. Maybe there's something, I don't know very much about Marlon Brando and it's kind of like none of my business.

When I see Marlon Brando, I'm like, we're good here. That's not for me. That's not really for me. I don't need to know about all of that. especially if he's bullying Frank Gauze to the friend of Frank Goss has to respond in a toxic way to the world

right exactly so yeah a 2001 Brando dude that's like oh that's like a shell that's a pudding cup that's yeah yeah that's Dr. Moreau that's Dr. Moreau you're talking that's tough

but Eric Johnson who's been playing Piggy since I stepped away from the part in 2000 said in an interview that Piggy is a drag act. It's where some of the comedy comes from. He did not go on to clarify, I've slept with like 23 women. Human women. And many of them have said

I'm like, good at sex. But he cited Oz's early description of Piggy as a truck driver in a woman's body and then argued that the character breaks down gender barriers, which I think is right. All right, Eric. Nice. Okay, Eric. People have also pointed out that

Chapel Rhone seems to pull a lot from drag and also Miss Piggy. Like there are a couple side-by-side pictures where it's like, oh, yeah. She might have literally been.

Everyone's biting Miss Piggy style, man. Yeah. It's perfect. Miss Piggy also has a wide variety of wigs. Yeah. She's just, she's maximal.

She's the best. Loves animal print, you know? But yeah, that Be Kind Rewind video. It's called Miss Piggy Camp and the death of the movie star has a really good quote

from a camp theorist talking about camp as this like pure surface level celebration of like the kind of hoops we have to jump through to live our lives. They say to appreciate camp and things or persons is to perceive the notion of life as theater being versus role playing reality and appearance, which I think is like kind of a perfect frame to think of Miss Piggy and kind of the Muppets through. Yeah. Yeah, a good video. I'm Stefan Curry, and this is Gentleman's Cut. I think what makes Gentleman's Cut different is me being a part of developing the profile of this beautiful finished product. With every sip, you get a little something different.

Visit Gentleman's Cut Bourbon.com or your nearest Total Wines or Bevmo. This message is intended for audiences 21 and older. Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky. For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit Gentlemen'scutturbin.com. Please enjoy responsibly. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? And what is this?

How is that not a story we all know? What's this? Where is that? Why is it wet? Boy, do we have a show for you? From Smartless Media, Campside Media, and Big Money Players comes Crimeless. Join me, Josh Dean, investigative journalists. And me, Roy Scoval, comedian.

as we celebrate the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. We'll look into some of the silliest ways folks have broken the laws. Honestly, it feels more like a high-level prank than a crime. Who catfishes a city? And meets some memorable anti-heroes. There are thousands of angry, horny monkeys. Clap, if you think, she's a witch. And it freaks you out.

He has X-ray vision. How could I not follow him? Honestly, I got to follow him. He can see right through me. Listen to Crimless on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Dad had the strong belief that the devil was attacking us. Two brothers, one devout household, two radically different paths. Gabe Ortiz became one of the highest-ranking law enforcement officers in Texas.

32 years, total law enforcement experience. But his brother Larry, he stayed behind and built an entirely different legacy. He was the head of this gang, and nobody was going to tell him what to do. You're going to push that line for the calls. Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it. When Larry is murdered, Gabe is forced to confront the past he tried to leave behind and uncover secrets he never saw coming. My dad had a whole other life that we never knew about.

Like, my mom started screaming my dad's name, and I just heard one gunshot. The brothers Ortiz is a gripping true story. about faith, family, and how two lives can drift so far apart and collide in the most devastating way. Listen to the Brothers Ortiz on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Who would you call if the unthinkable happened? I just fell and started screaming. If you lost someone you loved in the most horrific way. I said through your two times.

The police, right? But what if the person you're supposed to go to for help is the one you're the most afraid of? This dude is the devil. He's a snake. He'll hurt you. I'm Nikki Richardson, and this is The Girlfriends, Untouchable. Detective Roger Golubski spent decades intimidating

and sexually abusing black women across Kansas City, using his police badge to scare them into silence. This is the story of a detective. who seemed above the law until we came together to take him down. I told Roger Galuski, I said,

you're going to see my face till the day that you die. Listen to the girlfriends, Untouchable, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Miss Piggy as a feminist icon.

That's just, you know, a lot of people talking about body positivity role model who subverts. Like the original punchline of her origin is like a, you know, lipstick on a pig, like that sort of thing. But she's just like, I didn't even, I hadn't ever even thought about that being the original joke until somebody like reading about the origin is like, oh yeah, I get it. But it's like, no, she's just like so glamorous that like you don't even. even she just like owns it she's completely confident i i feel like you don't like have that initial like she's ugly but pretty type thing it's just like she's her own character no extensive backstory i also like that like i guess the miss piggy era i most associate her with and i like the best is that her like kind of 90s miss piggy where she's kind of like girl bossing a

a little bit like she's a she's a career girl and she's also like a ruthless kind of quite evil career girl and I I love that which one is that what is that in the ruthless I feel like I mean most of them I'm thinking of I think it's maybe a Muppets take Manhattan where she's really rallying for parts and she'll like lie to get parts she just like she's you know she's a diva she's a diva yeah and I like that yeah it would be it would have been easy to keep the focus on her like obsession with Kermit, which like it always does. But I feel like her passions of Kermit and,

you know, being famous are like in lockstep. So it's like almost weird that she had like, they haven't like adapted her to the modern era very frequently. I guess maybe this Colos Coloskele and Miss Piggy. Yeah. Written by Coleskola who made O'Mary for people who aren't familiar.

but the next logical step honestly. Yeah, yeah. Like it could really like get into brilliant dark show. What if it's a dust bowl film? He's like, I look, I went to the source and I just had to adapt this. Frank Oz, in fact, doubled down when I brought up the Stanislavski in brief. Jennifer Lawrence did say that the Miss Piggy movie is fucked up and really dark. Okay.

Wow. Maybe it is just a straight up adaptation. All right. But yeah, I feel like this, like one of the things driving her career throughout has been just the will they won't they of Kermit the frog. Like there was a more recent, I forget when it was, but I remember it hitting the news cycle when they like broke up and everybody was like, oh, like Piggy and Kermit broke up. That was the second time they had tried that. and the first time they did it was actually like called off because like they like to your point they were going to break up she was going to be single throughout the 90s and it was uh there was like this whole book planned and then jim henson died like that week um and so they just like quietly like pulled back on it they said she's been through enough this year we can't put her through a breakup oh because then because he was henson was doing kermit's voice up until

he passed away, basically. Yeah, he had been, so his last TV appearance was on the Arsenio Hall show in 1990. This is so funny that it was like seriously, yeah, we got Kermit the Frog on tonight. God bless. And he was like not feeling well at that. And then he was refusing to like take time off. And then so I didn't realize, I thought he like died of cancer or something. He died of like basically.

strep throat and just like not getting it taken care of. Oh my God. Yeah, it's like a crazy, like a bacterial infection that just like got worse and worse. And he was at that time talking to Disney about selling you know, the Muppets to Disney. And Frank Oz this is Frank Oz's quote on it. The Disney deal

is probably what killed Jim. It made him sick. Oh, wow. Yeah. Oh, good. Good for him. for saying that I guess. I mean, because Disney is I went to my, for my last birthday, my boyfriend brought me

to the Henson studio like Dirty Puppet Night. Have you guys ever been to that? No, what? Yeah, it's cool. It's like Brian Henson gives the audience a tour of the studio beforehand and then it's like puppet improv basically.

It's the best way to see improv if you absolutely we have to is Puppet Imprope. You must. But it was really cool. But I don't even know if they're still at that studio or they won't be for much longer because Disney has like sort of slowly dismantled. I hope maybe the Miss Piggy movie will save it.

But it seemed like they were going to have to leave the studio and, you know, go to sort of more standard corporate offices, which you have to imagine is Disney's fault. Yeah. Yeah. Because they were also like, you could like lease office space out of there. Like I remember in the last few years. years like yeah because the place on La Brea right like that yeah yeah yeah with like the top hat Kermit yeah yeah there was like see a little Kermit statue out front I remember going like

back in the day like meetings with startups like that were like like a startup was based back there like yeah rich at the Henson studios and it was that company didn't exist for more than seven no they shouldn't have to do that I know part of me felt really bummed out that I was like what but you got like I'm looking at the original dark crystal puppets in here and you guys are fucking talking about some dumb streaming platform that's not going to do fuck they're like yeah the frog is broke what can you do he do man so we're here now make him do whatever you want guys yeah you want watch this i can ash on his head right now who won't do shit but yeah in 1990 they appeared on the today show announced they were officially breaking up this was part of a publicity

stunt called the pig of the 90s that where she was going to like be an independent woman and then she's gonna girl boss it up yeah she was gonna girl boss it up and then and that was in may and just days later jim henson died of yeah it's a crazy sort like he literally just worked himself to like he wouldn't he like woke up at 2 a.m. in the morning and was like i i can't breathe and was like coughing up blood and he was like but i don't want to cancel work tomorrow um so i don't know for as a warning to anybody like don't don't work that hard yeah yeah yeah yeah Give the puppets alone. This is dark, but it would be funny if Frank Oz was like, yeah, I think it was the breakup that didn't believe in love after that.

He took that really hard. You're fine with this new direction with Miss Piggy, right, that we're thinking about, yeah. He's like, oh, he's like, oh, he could just tell it really affected him. He really wanted to say something, but he couldn't. It was just like a plot, an idea that he didn't like at work. so he like blames it for killing he's like yeah i don't know oh that's what's what you guys think yeah yeah i think it killed jim what do you guys think huh i might knock this shit off maybe i'll pitch that next time i will watch basically like

any like of the bajillion documentaries that there are about jim henson and anytime i see even a shred of his like televised funeral services i started bawling it's so sad i was so so upset. That was like one of the first celebrity deaths I remember as a kid. Did you guys know that like that's how he died? That it was. No, I thought he had cancer. Yeah.

I totally assumed his cancer. Because he wasn't that old, right? Was he in his like 50 or something? Early 50s, I think. Yeah. But yeah, I just remember I was so dev because I, I just felt like he was the Muppets.

Truly, even like as a kid, I knew they were fucking puppets, but I still could connect that like all things were possible through his work and the other people he worked with but yeah which is like

not that they wouldn't have been anyways but it like almost makes it necessary for kids to have the Muppets at the funeral so you know that they're like

still alive oh my God oh it's so sad what you imagine they're laying flowers on this it's too much it's so much

I like I've never been as well that's not fair but like I've never been that sat at a funeral as I am watching like low-res clips of Jimenez and speech.

Funeral from 1990. So sad. Yeah. So I do feel like that does like get a kind of one of the things that I think is truly unique about them, which is the way that they exist both in reality and in like the fact that they were at King

Charles's coronation. I feel like they're the only fictional characters who can like show up to real events. Like they occupy a weird space between worlds for everybody. Like you couldn't just have like Deadpool show up at the royal wedding. You're like and we've got Deadpool here.

Deadpool is at the coronation. Just sitting there. I mean. A fascinator on. I feel like they, because like other characters I guess do show up places, but it always, you can always tell it's an ad.

And then when the Muppet show up, you're like, oh, look. You're like, oh, the Muppets are there. Exactly. Yeah. They're like, damn. Oh, they were in town. That's great.

When, so Edgar, Edgar, Edgar, Candice Bergen, Edgar. A, Eggers. When Edgar from men in black died. No, when Edgar Bergen, Candice Bergen's father, who was a famous, like, puppeteer ventriloquist died.

I didn't know. His widow and Candice Bergen asked Jim Henson and Kermit to, like, speak at his funeral. And he said, Jim Henson said, uh, there seems to be something strange about having a puppet in this situation. And Kermit said, I've never appeared at a funeral before and then Henson was like

but the family asked if I would bring Kermit and Charlie would have liked it he said about like his Charlie and Mortimer were his two characters and like everybody just like burst into tears because they realized like Charlie and Mortimer were gone like at that moment. Oh wow.

But yeah it's sad. Yeah it's just kind of those weird like you know puppets have been like a thing and like they hold the like The Muppets hold this, like, load-bearing place in popular culture because they're, like, our main Muppets or our main puppets, you know? Right. Like, there's a quote from Bonnie Erickson where she's saying, they've been a tradition across the world for thousands of years as a form of storytelling.

But until recently, they haven't been appreciated in the United States. We owe a lot of that to Jim Henson's vision. And so, like, there's something, like, sort of magical about puppets that, like, these being the main pop culture puppets. allows them to just like occupy this weird space where we're like, are Piggy and Kermit going to like get together? Like God, I hope they like know whether they're together at any given time. Right, right.

And now Jamie, I bet you'd feel terrible if you read that, if read that Fosie OD'd after a bad open mic gig or something, wouldn't you? Wouldn't you just do it? Look, you know, my dark Fossey movie is Fossi's in AA. and like who's Fossey's sponsor?

I do feel like Fossey can't drink anymore. Yeah, Fossey definitely can't drink. I feel like Elmo's dad might be a sponsor. Yeah. Elmo's dad, like kind of has like old, you know, musician vibes. Probably seeing a lot of shit.

I was drinking and doing heroin. They're like, oh, fuck. All right, man. All right, Elmo's dad. Yeah, Elmo's dad has seen shit. You don't just raise a kid like that. like Elmo. Yeah, yeah.

Elmo makes a lot of sense and you see the dad, you're like, oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. In the grand context, Elmo actually, it comes into sharp focus. Yeah, I do wonder, like, what the drug seems like with the Muppets,

you know, just generally. I mean, it's like the band, the band has to. Oh, yeah. That is, I love the band so much. 100%. They're, yeah, they're, I don't think they're doing intravenous drugs.

No, a lot of acid. the band, I'd have to assume, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They keep it fun. They keep it fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stuff that just kind of makes them more Muppity, if that's a phrase. Yeah, stuff that makes you like taste colors.

Yeah, yeah. I will say just the last thing I have about Miss Piggy's, I feel like to encapsulate the weird place that she occupies, I don't think any other children's character could have simulated an orgasm. did you have you guys do you remember that thing where she was like doing a parody of when harry met sally with billy crystal oh no wait when did that happen they it was early 90s um and she did it as like a fake sneeze but she really like it was a long time it was on the disney channel too yeah and she on the show on muppets tonight yeah So, Cassineauva, what happened with your hot date last night? Oh, Spelly was a disaster. She cancelled. She had a bad cold. Are you sure she had a cold?

Yes, I'm sure she had a cold. I heard a sneeze twice. Hurry, hurry, hurry, hurry. Your never pays three amuse more. Did you ever think she may have faked the sneeze to get out of the date with you? Faked a sneeze? Yes, yes. Listen, Harry, take it for more. Most women at one time or another

have faked a sneeze to get out of a date. Really? Well, excuse me, miss, I'm jealous of babe. You don't think that I can tell the difference between a real sneeze and a fake sneeze? Nope. So good. Killing it with the performance.

Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. You know, the Disney Channel. No, my God. Oh my God.

Oh, my God. Oh, God. This is gratuitous. I love the Disney Channel logo. hanging out down there. Yeah. Wow. Waiter,

all have what she's having. Hey. Only less pepper. Hey. Okay. They land it. Holy shit. That was that.

When you said it was a fake sneeze, I'm like, okay, they'll play with it. I didn't expect her to be daggering that table like that. On her feet? On her feet?

On her little feet. She was pumping the teeth. Even a part where like Billy Crystal starts like doing a weird thing. I was like, dude, what are you doing? Stop that. Men get so weird about Miss Piggy. Men are weird about Miss Piggy. The Siskel thing really says it all where he's like, oh, she's so amazing.

And did you see her legs? And you're like, okay. What's the fuck? Look at those yams. There's the line. there's the line I remember I never watched it but I'm always like

one small illness away from watching do you remember Lady Gaga and the Muppets did like special together it was like maybe 10 years ago but Lady Gaga and the Muppets did a big thing together and I never saw

it but I feel like she and Miss Piggy must have really been viving because now Sabrina Carpenter is going to be in a Muppet special. Wow. And she and Miss Piggie are going to get along famously. It was a holiday. It was a holiday spectacular is what they did.

Yeah. Oh, yes. 2013. With, oh, God, 2013. With guest stars Joseph Gordon Levitt. Of course.

He's not looking like that these days. He's not looking like that these days. I mean, Jason Siegel briefly had custody of the Muppets and then he had to give them back. And that's for the best probably. That's true. That's true.

That was a wild time when we were just like, we'll see what Jason Segal does with it. And it's like, oh, just have him and a new Muppet he made up be on screen. The new Muppet, like, what the fuck was that? But the songs were great. The songs were really good. I thought that movie was like pretty fun. And the music was good.

They just didn't need the new guy. No. What was his name? Walter? They didn't even like give him a cool name. They just gave him a normal. He was like, I don't know, Walter. I work in IT.

What the fuck? Miss Piggy, Kermit the Frog. and Walter, which I guess was kind of the point, but the bad point. That sucks. All right. Anything else about Miss Piggy you guys want to talk about before we get out of here?

No, I was just, I think before the recording, I was just saying it's funny that how much of a cultural mainstay Miss Piggy is because we had like Donald Trump calling people Piggy. There's like TikTok videos I'm saying talking about Miss Piggy.

being in the Epstein files. And then there was a story about the woman who allegedly hit a child on a plane because the child called her miss speaking. Couldn't have been the first time a child has called her miss piggy. A Maryland woman is facing charges after police in Florida said she hit a child who made fun of her on a flight from Orlando. Holy shit. She slammed the child's head into the window of the plane for calling her miss speaking.

I'm just saying there's a lot of energy around this. I didn't expect that. can look like anything. A legacy can look like anything. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just happy that like, I mean, it's like, the fact that kids still know who she is, even though the Muppets haven't really like put out a

successful project in like 15 years for their whole lives is like crazy. It's got to be like, I mean, it's the same way like I show my kid that stuff because I'm like, yeah, you're going to love this bullshit. I love these freaky fucking Muppets. You're going to love them too. And and they do. And they fucking do.

like it's like it feels like one of the few things of like I've tried to show my son like other shit like I thought was cool from my childhood he's like this shit like you can just tell I mean he's like not even three yet but it's very clear when something captivates him or not and I showed him the Muppet Christmas Carol his attention was there the entire time I could not believe it and I was man of taste man of taste yeah that's the best Christmas movie I think it is like truly my favorite Christmas movie he loves Michael Cain he loves Michael Cain he loves Michael Cain. in it for the cane. Don't blink. Jamie, where can people find you, follow you, all that good stuff? You can find me on the Bechtelcast every week. Every Thursday from now

until the end of time, mark my words. Caitlin Durante and I are going to cover movies from an intersectional feminist perspective. And then mostly, I think, Instagram, Jamie Christ's superstar.

Yeah. I got a star. I haven't been a bit. I haven't been posting as much. I'm starting to feel too healthy. So maybe I'll start. You got to get back in there. I got to get sick.

I got to call you back. Let it summon you back into the pit. Miles, where can people find you? Everywhere. Wow. Perfect. All right.

Miles and Gray. All right. That's it. That's it. Stick around. Oh, yeah. It's in a Santa University. Yeah.

Whenever it comes out. Oh, yeah. I think it comes out on Christmas or Christmas Eve. S. 9. S. 9. How have we been doing this for that many years?

Hasn't got any better. And this year is not going to be different. Wow. Just keeps getting longer. When we hit Santa UX, Santa U.S. Santa U.S. Is going to be, oh, God. We're going to have to do like a live performance, like the Disney theater,

the Disney Hall or something. I've started to apply for grants because we got to, we got to get this in the Dolby. We got to get it in the Dolby, I think. Or at least Gromans. we got to get Gromans. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's easy. We'll figure it out.

We'll do the Montalban easy. Montalban, I'd even take the roof. Come on. Yeah, yeah. I'd definitely take the Montelban roof. It's beautiful up there. Anyway, stay tuned. Stay tuned.

Stay tuned. Stick around for the No, no, no, no notebook dump where I get to stuff that I didn't get to in the episode. And bye. Bye. Bye. All right, that was our episode. always great to see Jamie Loftus. This is the

No, no, no, no, notebook dump where I get to stuff that I didn't get to in the main episode that I wanted to. On the subject of Bonnie Erickson, Miss Piggy's designer, this has nothing to do with Miss Piggy,

so I didn't bring it up in our conversation, but a quick anecdote that I discovered during research that my brain couldn't put down, so I wanted to pass it along to your brain, like the supernatural STD from it follows. So Bonnie Erickson, this accomplished designer, she's created Miss Piggy and the Philly fanatic, and she gets asked to design the mascot for the biggest sports franchise in the

world, I think, the New York Yankees. I think it's them or the Dallas Cowboys, but, you know, they're near the top. And so she creates this large pinstriped bird-like creature with a mustache. The mustache is designed to look like the most beloved Yankee on the team at the time, maybe of the decade of the 70s Yankees catcher Thurman Monson he got a big mustache, bird has a big mustache, win-win. So as his

debut, as Dandy the Pinstrype Bird's debut, is approaching, two things happen. I'm going to pull from the Wikipedia here, Bonnie Erickson's Wikipedia. On July 10th, 1979, the San Diego Chicken, who was then working for

the Seattle Mariners, apparently mascots can be like kind of free agents and move between teams, which I didn't realize. So the San Diego chicken put a hex on Yankees pitcher Ron Guidry during a game at the Seattle Kingdom. Yankees outfielder Lou Pinella, who would go on to manage baseball teams, responded by chasing the mascot and throwing his glove at him.

In response, the Yankees owner, George Steinbrenner, said that mascots have no place in baseball, which despite the imminent release of Dandy, who's supposed to be their mask. Mascot. So Dandy does, in fact, debut in late July, 1979, weeks after the incident in Seattle. And then Thurman Monson dies in a plane crash on August 2nd, like a week after Dandy is introduced. Dandy's immediately put on hiatus. They eventually let him come into the stadium, but he's confined to the upper deck area, like the cheap seats. and it's it just it doesn't work out

Erickson and her partner Harrison declined the Yankees request to sign another lease they feel the mascot didn't receive the necessary support from management so yeah you win some you lose some she goes on to design plenty of other mascots has a bunch of mascots still roaming stadiums in the NBA she describes her mascots as all being gentle anarchists which fucking rules but I think that speaks

to the power of puppets and mascots. Back to Miss Piggy, a couple ideas I wanted to get at, but couldn't quite get right in our conversation. One has to do with Miss Piggy's relationship with Kermit the Frog, which obviously a very important part of her mythos and iconography. I didn't spend enough time talking about it in the episode because it's kind of confusing,

like they're together, they get married in either Muppets, take Manhattan or the Great Muppet Caper, I forget, but then, like, that gets reconed out. They say the priest was, like, actually defrocked, like, sort of that. So that is no longer canon, but they're just always back and forth. They say they're life partners who live together. Kermit has said they've never been together. It's the ultimate will, they won't they, which makes sense from a narrative perspective.

But, you know, beyond the obvious narrative hook, I think there's another way that it's important to her status as an icon because so my working theory of the icons we've covered so far is that it helps to have some contradiction at the core of like our perception of you you know like so our brains can't just like put you down that's what that's what my brain wants to do when i'm introduced to a new famous person or a character i just want to put them down there's too many famous people and characters i'm already holding all this shit i don't want to i don't want to have to know another one. So if a character or like a person is what you expect, if it's like a jock who seems like a cocky dick or like a nerd who seems like he lacks confidence, um, I'm like,

I know who that is. I can just put them away in a drawer and forget about them. But so all of these characters so far, or you know, real people with Einstein who become iconic have something unexpected, like some contradiction. So with Einstein, a super genius who, look sloppy as hell. I can't remember to put his clothes on before he walks out the door. We pretend he was a slow child because that's important to us. We want that

contradiction. He's not like a Benedict Cumberbatch character who's a genius. He's like an absent spacey, is that guy on something type genius. Erichael, nerd, but he's also extremely confident and unflappable.

And then with Miss Piggy, beyond the central contradiction of like glamorous pig lipstick on a pig as businessmen like to say you know that joke never even really occurred to me uh but the the contradiction that i think is important is that she's a motivated career woman who can and will beat the shit out of you to like get to the top she's also primarily driven by her romantic love of kermit the fraud like she'll cozy up to a producer to get a role but ultimately she just wants to marry this mild-mannered, multi-talented absolute 10.

But then she'll also just like bail on him repeatedly in order to put her career first. She's also sweet and sensitive, but a fucking straight-up cannibal. So that's one idea, that a contradiction is helpful to build an icon. And then another idea about why she's so iconic is where we were when she was introduced with our relationship to puppetry and just sexual politics at that point in history. I think Miss Piggy stands out among Muppets for some of the reasons we talked about. She's a superstar in the narrative, but then she reads as a superstar on screen to the point that she made Gene Siskel come in his pants, which probably wasn't that hard

to do. But I do think the way that she was imbued with this kind of outsized energy that just like leaps off the screen and gives Gene Siskel a boner is she really like gave Frank Oz an outlet for what turned out to be a very developed and interesting feminine energy that he wasn't really allowed to express in any other way. I don't even know if he knew that he was looking to express it. And people couldn't really get that anywhere else in like super mainstream culture at the time. And obviously we wanted it. Look at how people have reacted to the freeing of drag culture

and like the mainstreaming of drag culture. So Miss Piggy comes along at a time of like toxic masculinity in the late 70s at a time when like Frank Oz has to disclaim that he's straight when he's talking about playing her. And she's just like bursting with the divine feminine and like could express confidence and body positivity and horniness. And she could get away with it because she's a puppet. you know and and again like puppetry is this ancient alchemical art that wasn't being used so ingeniously

and with like such mainstream success anywhere else um i quoted bonnie ericsen or henson talking about i think they've both talked about how humans have used puppets for thousands of years in like religious rituals and healing and witchcraft look at how lu panella reacted to a chicken mascot putting a curse on their pitcher. Like you could say he was being an idiot, but he was also reacting to this ancient, powerful human connection to this art form. And then Henson comes along and reconnects these jaded pop culture drenched minds around the world with this ancient deep yearning to watch someone breathe life and fully formed characters into inanimate objects. And also officially, it's kid stuff. People consuming mainstream culture don't have their guards up. So ideas

and energy comes through that they wouldn't usually let through, this world of mainstream culture that was just getting used to the idea of like strong women, let alone drag act, allows through this new dimension of like confident divadum that people weren't ready for and it turns out we're deeply ready for at the same time. All right, that's going to do it for the Miss Piggy episode. Next week, an icon who I don't think really fits with that conflict at the core of the icon rule that I just made up. I think he kind of takes your expectations of the type of person he would be and takes it like 30 steps further, just like maximalism all the way down.

We're talking Arnold Schwarzenegger. So we have a great guest for that one. So I will talk to you then, or I'll talk to you in a few hours if you listen to the regular episodes of the Daily Zyzekeyes. Bye-bye. I'm Stefan Curry, and this is Gentleman's Cut. I think what makes Gentleman's Cut different is me being a part of developing the profile of this beautiful finished product. With every sip, you get a little something different.

Visit Gentleman'scut Bourbon.com or your nearest Total Wines or Bevmo. This message is intended for audiences 21 and older. Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky. For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit Gentleman's Cut Bourbon.com. Please enjoy responsibly. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? Who catfishes a city? Is it even safe to snort human remains?

Is that the plot of Footloose? I'm comedian Rory Scoville, and I'm here to tell you, Josh Dean and I have a new podcast that celebrates the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. It's called Crimeless, a true crime comedy podcast. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get. your podcasts. I know he has a reputation, but it's going to catch up to him. Gabe Ortiz is a cop.

His brother Larry, a mystery Gabe didn't want to solve until it was too late. He was the head of this gang. You're going to push that line for the cause. Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it. When Larry's killed, Gabe must untangle the dangerous past, one that could destroy everything he thought he knew. Listen to the brothers Ortiz on the IHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts.

Who would you call if the unthinkable happened? My sister was y'all 22 times. A police officer, right? But what do you do when the monster is the man in blue? This dude is the devil. He'll hurt you. This is the story of a detective who thought he was above the law until we came together to take him down. I said, you're going to see my face till the day that you die.

Listen to the girlfriends. untouchable on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.