The Daily Zeitgeist - Unpaid Internships And Best Cities List = White Supremacy 08.17.22

Episode Date: August 17, 2022

In episode 1311, Jack and Miles are joined by science journalist, comedy writer, and author of The End of Bias: A Beginning, Jessica Nordell, to discuss… Tucker’s Back and He’s Turning the Heat Up…, Unpaid Internships the Reason Journalism is Failing? The Economist And World Of Real Estate-Making White Supremacy Sound Official and more!  The Economist And World Of Real Estate-Making White Supremacy Sound Official LISTEN: Dreams by NuagesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties

you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Jess Costavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series, Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and Shekinah Church. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game.

Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. I'm Keri Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore

the making of a rivalry, Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's basketball. And on this new season, we'll cover all things sports and culture. Listen to Naked Sports on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio apps, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by Diet Coke. Hello, the internet, and welcome to season 250, episode 3 of Dirty Lee's Eye Gaze! A production of iHeartRadio. This is a podcast where we take a deep dive into America's shared consciousness. And it is Wednesday, August 17th, 2022. You heard right, August. It is August 17th. Yep. Which of course means... You ready? I'm ready. I'm in my three-point athletic stance.

Good. Here we go. Defensive slide. Deny. Deny. Deny. Here we go. Deny.

Deny. Deny. Ball. Ball. Ball. Ball. Ball. Ball.

Ball. Ball. Ball. Ball. Ball. Black Cat Appreciation Day. If you got a black cat, I know I do. Shout out my cat, Bergie.

That's also National Massachusetts Day. Shout out to Commonwealth. And also National I Love My Feet Day. Brought to you by WikiFeet. cat bergy that's also national massachusetts day shout out to commonwealth and also national i love my feet day brought to you by wiki feet for real brought to you by no no no i'm sure it could be but hey man we all need we all need a little self-love in the feet department they say i could it's about foot care it's not about like taking a gander at your little feces it's about hey your feet fit all right you got foot pain you walking okay do your feet fit all right i mean your shoes i'm sorry your shoes your shoes all right because i yeah i have wider feet and i realize i've been

wearing the most like improperly narrow shoes for most of my life yeah and now i'm like starting to be like oh yeah i'm starting to feel that. So switch to Birkenstocks. There you go. The Birks. I just got my first pair. Wait, you got Birkies? Mm-hmm. Oh, I don't have any yet.

I need to go. I'm going to cross over. Loving them miles. Really? Yeah, they're nice. Are they leather? You got the felt ones? Plastic.

They're like the plastic rubber. Oh, shit. Okay. They're nice. They're waterproof. the felt ones uh plastic they're like the plastic rubber oh shit okay okay waterproof i did look when i was in my phase where i was like you know had my walls plastered with wu-tang posters and was wearing like cross color and can i my whole school was all into 70s fashion like in the 90s yeah bergenstock so i swore i would never wear bergenstocks but i've gone back on that and they are comfortable and my wife even allows me to have my toes out around the house switches that is the one part of my body that she is openly like it's ugly

we should get a redo on that it's not good down here like not so much here here but like down here it's right in this region here well my name is jack o'brien aka zeitgeist jack and miles in action passing through my mind and all the while i'm drinking dew uh that is courtesy of bohemian rap city yeah shout out to Bohemian Rap City He gave me that one a long time ago And I had somehow missed it So I appreciate you And I am thrilled to be joined as always By my co-host

Mr. Miles Gray Mr. Miles Gray A.K.A. the Lord of Lancashire Hideo Noho himself Oh and also if you're in the Valley, the San Fernando Valley, I'm going to be doing a live podcast with 818s and Heartbreaks, the local Valley legends. Check my Twitter or the 818s and Heartbreak Twitter socials to get tickets,

or I will be discussing my favorite thing, which is the San Fernando Valley. But that's limited to people in LA. So please check it out. That's like to people in LA. Please check it out. That's like a valley-focused podcast? Oh, yeah. All valley kids. They all went to North Hollywood. They're all from North Hollywood. I saw Molly Lambert on it. Also, North Hollywood

legend, Molly Lambert. When I saw her, I was like, yo, I want to be on this podcast. I was DMing them. I'm like, hey, I would like to be a guest. They're like oh okay normally people don't do this but yeah but you know what i see 818s and my heart flutters there you go well we are thrilled to be joined in our third seat by an acclaimed science journalist author comedy writer poet uh whose writing has appeared in the new york times the atlantic the

guardian the washington post the new republic slateon. Her first book, The End of Bias, A Beginning, was a finalist for all sorts of awards, appeared on all sorts of best book of the year lists in 2021. It's Jessica Nordell! Hello, thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be back. Yeah. Welcome. Welcome. How are things? What's new? How are thou? Things are good. I am hoping that just until about five minutes ago, there was a small child screaming outside my window. So I'm really hoping that we have an uninterrupted conversation. But yeah, things are good. I'm in Minneapolis. It's like we're in this like narrow window of like two weeks

when the weather is beautiful and everyone in the city like goes outside and like runs around maniacally because it'll become horrible soon. So I'm doing well. How are you guys doing? Good.

Wait, what's the window for good weather in Minneapolis? Like, because the way you say that, I'm like, oh, this is clear. Like, I mean, realistically, when at what point are we seeing what kind of average temperatures I mean I feel like it stays cold you know realistically it stays cold until like late April wow and then it starts to get cold again in like October. So it's kind of a narrow slice of joy that we seize and hold on to. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Yeah. Meanwhile, we can't escape mid-90s heat in California. But hey, you know, that's just par for the course out here. It's hot. We're trying to air out our house because we got, you know, that's just par for the course out here. It's hot. We're trying to air out our house because we're getting over COVID, trying to get all the germs blown out. But it is just static and hot. Yeah. Are you guys both in Southern California?

Yeah, Los Angeles. We're actually, if I tilt my thing to the side, Miles is right here. Just right next to him. It's like, yeah, we built a very elaborate set throughout the show just to kind of keep the keep that vibe go man as long as you don't so but so you've been lifelong minneapolis or um i've been kind of bouncing around i grew up well i was born in la actually i was delivered by the same doctor who delivered chas bono amazing okay congratulations and my my pediatrician was i don't know if you remember the

hollywood madam heidi fleiss oh we just did a podcast about heidi fleiss and talked about how heidi fleiss's father delivered leonardo dicaprio and you know, the pediatrician to the whole like kind of counterculture, cool Silver Lake scene. You were. Yes. That included you. He was my pediatrician. Apparently. Yes. I didn't know Leonardo. Leo and I shared a pediatrician. Maybe I'll give him a call. Absolutely. Yeah. I love. No. Yeah. Just with the most tenuous connection. Leo, Leo, Leo. The pediatrician, same pediatrician. It's the best game, actually, who has the most tenuous connection like oh leo leo leo same pediatrician same pediatrician it's the best game actually who has the most tenuous connection to the least significant celebrity absolutely and it's i i remember i did that like once with when i met cindy crawford because i when i worked at like this other job i went to

her house to shoot a video and i was like the thing is her son i like when i worked at like this other job, I went to her house to shoot a video and I was like, the thing is her son. I like, when I worked at a laser tag place, I did, I was the party host twice for this birthday. And I met her. And I remember as a teenager, it's like, I met Cindy Crawford as an adult. I went to her house and I'm like, this is going to sound really weird, but I have to say it.

You went to her house for another reason. You didn't go to her house just to say this. Yeah. Just knock on the door. Cindy their it's me from ultra zone i told her i said hey i'm i this sounds weird but i actually was like the party guy for your kids laser tag birthday she was like oh my god she grabbed her photo album and pulled out the photos from the party and like my arm was in a shot and i was like that was me and again that was like one of the most my i've never felt more like entitled or whatever just to be like you see it was a loose thread and she fucking yanked on it and the whole photo album came out wasn't that tenuous that i'm i'm like the arm being in it is cool i i would have preferred if she like pulled it out and there was just like

a wall of pictures of you just like just like i've been waiting for you to come come back all right well jessica we are going to get to know you a little bit better in a moment first we are going to tell our listeners oh i wanted to say the comedy writer thing. You wrote for a Prairie Home Companion. I did. It was like one of my first jobs. Yeah. 2003. Yes.

Yes. Look at you. I have Wikipedia. I have access to that. But that's very cool. What was that like to work on? It was really interesting. I mean, I remember like I was just I was in my early 20s.

I was kind of desperately looking for a job that would pay me for writing. And I was living in Minneapolis and was kind of like trolling different websites. And Minnesota Public Radio had this writing job that they advertised with like benefits. And I was like, that sounds fantastic. And only later did I find out that it was for Prairie Home Companions. I was like, huh, well, I haven't really listened to the show, but I like writing comedy. I'll give it a shot. And yeah, I ended up working there for a few years. It was wild. I mean, I learned a lot. It was, you know, kind of in hindsight, there were some strange things that went down that I wasn't as in tune to at the time as I am now. Right. But I mean, it was a great education in working quickly and working hard and kind of like not

being precious with material because there was like so much material generated. We had a few writers working on the show and then Garrison was like writing all the time and we would just create so much material, so much material. And, you know, 90% of it would get thrown out. And so I feel like it kind of taught me something that was useful for my writing career later, which is like, don't get that attached to stuff. Just like produce. Exactly.

Just like produce, produce, produce. And eventually something good will emerge. But don't get, yeah, don't get too precious. So that was really actually very useful early, kind of early career insight. Did the movie, A Prairie Home Companion, did you watch that movie? Did it get it right?

I was an extra in that movie. Hey, look at that. All right, that's pretty cool. Which is my tenuous connection. There it is. Yeah, yeah. That was very weird because it was like this physical recreation of something that only existed in our heads, like all of the sets with the different sketches. And yeah, so it was sort of trippy in an existential way. But yeah, it was cool. Yeah, that's cool.

That's funny. I interned at Miramax in 2002. Whoa. And yeah, like you said, like nothing overt at the time. But in retrospect, it's like, man, that place's vibes were all all fucked up. There is some weird shit going on. Anyways. All right.

We are going to get to know you a little bit better in a moment. First, a few of the things we are talking about later on. Tucker's back on the air, and he's ringing the bell. He wants blood, it would appear. So we're going to talk about that. Or maybe blood. I mean, he's like, I'd hate for there to be blood. Vague blood. That's kind of the implication.

There will be blood, question mark, is his version of things. There will be blood? Is his version of things. They might be blood. We're going to talk about unpaid internships. Speaking of internships, the reason journalism is failing, I think, is... I don't think we need the question mark.

I think in general, unpaid internships in any industry is the reason why a lot of homogenous thinking or just kind of like one note mentality is happening. I feel like, yeah. We're going to talk about The Economist. They released a few months back their guide to the top 10 best and worst places to live in the world. And this is from The Economist. What is The Economist Intelligence Unit? places to live in the world and this is from the economist what is the economist intelligence unit

so they're like this is we we like to think of ourselves as a publication as having a cia part of our outlet so this this comes from them plenty more but before we get to any of that jessica we like to ask our guests. What is something from your search history? Ooh, search history right now. Gosh, I have been looking into something called empathic discipline, which is an approach to creating stronger teacher-student trust and relationships with the goal of decreasing racial disparities in school discipline, like suspensions, expulsions, detentions, things like that. And there's some really interesting research done by an amazing psychologist named Jason Okonofua, who finds that, and the research found that when you train teachers to use empathic approaches to students, when you train teachers

to really focus on building trusting relationships and avoiding labeling students and really thinking about how important the teacher-student relationship is to helping students' success, what happens is suspensions drop and specifically racial disparities in suspensions decrease as well. So it's like this really interesting approach to decreasing bias that doesn't actually target bias. So it's, it's like kind of this ninja, or maybe more like judo. It's like this, this move of getting at the consequences of bias without actually trying to tackle the bias itself. So I've been, I've been researching that. So just focusing on building empathy, like with teachers having empathy with their students across the board and the idea that like just by having a like an actual relationship a student will probably be

like oh yeah i respect you because i trust you so if you're telling me that i'm less likely to act out versus me being like oh here comes this fucking asshole who just wants to say i'm a bad influence all the time that's exactly it so what this researcher found was that a lot of like bias interventions, think of it as this one way street, which is like the teacher expressing bias toward the student. But what Jason Okonofua found, Dr. Okonofua, is that it's actually like an interactive experience. So exactly as you point out, Miles, like the teacher is maybe having certain stereotypes about students and the student senses that and they are primed to act out

because they don't trust the teacher and they're expecting to be treated in a particular way. And so that might even create them to act out more and then fulfill the teacher's stereotype, which just creates this like endless. And then the teacher's like, and I was right about them. Exactly. And then on we go. stereotype, which just creates this like endless. And then the teacher's like, and I was right about them. Exactly.

And then on we go. Right. For sure. You nailed it. Yeah. So this approach is really designed to interrupt that bad cycle and help teachers really understand how important it is to for the student to feel respected and for the teacher to respect the students and to create that bond.

for the student to feel respected and for the teacher to respect the students and to create that bond so that exactly like when a problem arises, the student, like, as you point out, is like, oh, OK, maybe this teacher is right. Maybe I do need to kind of shift things around. And I know that they I know that they respect me. And so it creates the foundation for a relationship that then causes students to feel more respected and behave better. Right. And it seems like it's just something really good teachers naturally do. You know, like I think of like teachers I've had, I've had teachers who have like written me off and I'm like, and I hated being in their classroom because they're going to be like the second. I have one teacher who like if anybody laughed at any time,

she was like, Miles, what are you doing? Or something because she thought I was distracting the class. I'm like, dude, I don't even sit on that side of the classroom what the fuck are you talking about and it all i was it was always very tense and then i had other teachers who knew i was i could be disruptive but like would come at me and say like hey look i know you got you get excited you want to talk to your friends but like just help me out and just kind of like cool it when you do it and that approach all like i was always more respectful with those teachers who were like hey i get it you know like i get you but like please shut the fuck up and i was like okay cool versus like here he goes the loud kid again throwing up gang signs ruining our class picture and i'm like get back in your thunderbird already elise yeah i mean one

thing that was super interesting to me about this research was that when the psychologist recruited teachers for the study, he didn't actually tell them that he was doing an intervention with them. What he told them was they were being recruited to kind of reflect and review best practices in teaching. Right. And review. And so they were given this material that talked about how important trusting relationships are and how important it is to not label a student or assume that the teacher knows why a student is behaving that way and to instead look for maybe situational reasons that a

student is behaving that way rather than fix it to like some kind of essential aspect of that student. And so they were, yeah, so exactly. They were kind of, they were told that they were just reviewing best practices. And then they reviewed things like how students felt when they felt respected and how that helped them learn. And yeah, I mean, the results were pretty spectacular in terms of actually like changing the dynamic. It's wild how much we ask of our teachers too already, right? Like, cause on top of, you know,

the many teachers who listen to this show, again, thank you so much. I'll continue to retweet your wishlists. But the added sort of task of like, yeah, look, some kids are not supported at home and are going to come in here. And then also, we also need you to have these skills to be able to make sure that they can navigate life because they're not going to be through this like chaotic sequence of like not

trusting people in authority positions and what that turns into in adulthood. Just, just how much we ask. That's why very, Hey, thank a teacher when you see them, because that's why I'm so grateful, because I think of the teachers who actually tried to understand me rather than just kind of be like, this guy's a disruptive asshole. It was like, thank you. And that helped me be more interested in like school at the end of the day, rather than like feeling like I was going to a place where people were just going to be like, you're bad. to a place where people were just going to be like, you're bad. That's so dope, though, that you've that the study found that the training like it is changeable. It's not a fixed problem. It's it's something where training teachers to, you know, just focus on this this part of their relationships with students like makes makes an impact. Is that is that something that's like

generalizable to health care and, you know, other places is empathic discipline kind of being being adopted? Law enforcement? I don't know. It's a really it's a really interesting question. I mean, I think what like if you zoom out a little bit, I think what this approach shows is that if you want to address people's biases, one thing that can work that we see in this education research is enhancing their other values, like boosting their commitment to values like trusting relationships and respect and mutual understanding and avoiding labeling. And so if you kind of boost and like amplify those values, then that can override these automatic responses that we might have toward one another. So it kind of like yeah it's almost

it's like it's like i don't know like a vitamin like right kind of stare like you you give your other values steroids and then it kind of like over uh this metaphor is falling apart sorry no no it's okay we're a pro steroids podcast yeah we're always having very strongly we're both we're both on cycles right now so you do a hit of Balco straight into the empathy zone. Everyone is just completely juice. Yeah! Yeah, so, but no, it's true. I love this study.

Sorry. Not only my biceps got bigger, my heart was enlarged also. The Grinch's heart only grew three sizes that day? That ain't shit, bro. Sorry. All right. Yeah, no, I'm glad that you, I'm glad you mentioned policing because yes,

there is also really interesting work done in policing that I talk about in my book, actually, that looks at like how you change police behavior, basically, like how you actually get police to behave in respectful kind humane ways rather than just avoid like breaking the law and avoid just like

criminal behavior right right and that yeah and i think you know in that case it's a lot about creating incentives like we talk about you know i was just at a meeting actually here in Minneapolis talking about improving police behavior and accountability. And everyone focuses primarily on accountability and correct punishment for failure. We need more guardrails, more guardrails kind of thing, right? Exactly. And that's like really it's totally important. fail you know for failure we need more guardrails more guardrails kind of thing right exactly and that's like really it's totally important i mean it creates like a floor below which you cannot go in terms of bad behavior but i think we miss something when we talk about this because culture is not just what you punish but it's also what you reward yeah and i think if we if we just

talk about punishment without talking about what we're actually trying to reward and incentivize and like the kind of behavior we actually want, then we only kind of have half the story. Yeah. And even in like that guardrail metaphor, it's like if I think of a cop as a bowler, like, do you want the guys like, yeah, put the bumpers up because I'm sloppy as shit. Or someone who's like, there's a there's someone in need. I know how to solve it. Let me just bowl a strike here. I don't need guardrails because I'm focused on a different version, which is like I'm out of control. How do you contain that?

I want that guy who said, who do you think you are? I am. That's the bowler. Yeah, that's the bowler. But yeah, Jack, to your question about values. I mean, like if you can generalize that the education work to policing, I mean, I think that you can create incentive structures. In fact, there's a there's a small group in L.A., the Community Safety Partnership, that there was just an independent evaluation of this particular police

program, which was designed around changing incentives. So officers were rewarded for building relationships instead of making arrests. And so the value was in the relationship. That's what they were actually being rewarded for. And the analysis that came out of this, of that program found that it did change police behavior, actually. And it also decreased violent crime. That's very cool. Shout out to LA. Is that, that was an LAPD? It was, believe it or, yes, it was LAPD. It was a small group that's currently headed

by Amada Tingarides, Deputy Chief Amada Tingarides. And it was like a small pilot program that started in Watts in, I want to say, 2011 with like 40 officers that were tasked with creating relationships and were rewarded on the basis of whether they created relationships with the community. That's very cool. All right, let's take a quick break. We'll be right back with your underrated and overrated. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church.

And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and LA-based Shekinah Church, an alleged cult that has impacted members for over two decades. Jessica and I will delve into the hidden truths between high control groups and interview dancers, church members, and others whose lives and careers have been impacted, just like mine. Through powerful, in-depth interviews with former members and new, chilling first-hand accounts, the series will illuminate untold and extremely necessary perspectives. Forgive Me For I Have Followed will be more than an exploration. It's a vital revelation aimed at ensuring these types of abuses never happen again. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions. Like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or, can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job?

Girl, yes. Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Saner. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it? Like you miss 100% of the shots you never take. Yeah. Rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself.

Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports, where we live at the intersection of sports and culture. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry, Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Every great player needs a foil. I ain't really hear them voice. I just come here to play basketball every single day and that's what I focus on.

From college to the pros, Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Angel Reese is a joy to watch. She is unapologetically black. I love her. What exactly ignited this fire? Why has it been so good for the game? And can the fanfare surrounding these two supernovas be sustained? This game is only going to get better because the talent is getting better. This new season will cover all things sports and culture. Listen to Naked Sports on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by Diet Coke. How do you feel about biscuits? Hi, I'm Akilah Hughes, and I'm so excited about my new podcast, Rebel Spirit, where I head back to my hometown in Kentucky and try to convince my high school to change their racist mascot, the Rebels, into something everyone in the South loves, the biscuits. I was a lady rebel. Like, what does that even mean? I mean, the Boone County rebels will stay the Boone County rebels with the image of

the biscuits. It's right here in black and white in print. They lying. An individual that came to the school saying that God sent him to talk to me about the mascot switch is a leader. You choose hills that you want to die on. Why would we want to be the losing team? I just take all the other stuff out of it.

Segregation academies. When civil rights said that we need to integrate public schools, these charter schools were exempt from that. Bigger than a flag or mascot. You have to be ready for serious backlash. Listen to Rebel Spirit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and we're back and jessica we like to ask our guests what is something that you think is underrated telepathy telepathy i think if we we just learned that

trump can telepathically declassify documents i think we are all using telepathy far too little yeah and i would like to start using it to pay my car insurance and resolve long-running disputes with the cable company well first step is you got to start an account at Truth Social. Just like he did. And he's like, by virtue of this tweet, I hear about like, I was like, oh, my God, he's really doing the fucking Michael Scott. I declare bankruptcy bit from the office, but with declassifying top secret documents. OK, I'm not up on this story.

What do you do? He thought because of the whole talk about declassifying things, there was a whole, I'll pull it up. He had this whole tweet that was like, by virtue of this truth social, it was like very heavy handed. Right.

Right. So yeah, just, just the declaration that is no longer classified. Yeah. Hold on. Let me pull it up. Like with,

I think the, like, with... The classification process is notoriously and, like, iconically very convoluted and needs to go through so many layers of bureaucracy. The fact that he thinks he could just declassify something over a true social is... proves to me that he's not even trying anymore i feel like well yeah i mean i think he's trying to do anything he can right because there's like multiple narratives one's like oh no maybe he you know very benignly just took these documents that were in a skiff like in a secured area or he's like well if that's not the case then i i'm able

to declassify anything anyway just like this truth social said because you know remember he was trying to do shit like by twitter decree too and like right even then they're like that's not how this works and even if you're president that doesn't do that so you know old habits die hard i guess what is something you think is overrated overrated i would say box fans box fans okay this is a long-running dispute in my house my husband is not happy unless there are air molecules at very high velocity moving over his skin at all times we have like fans going in every room and it drives me insane because i like still unmoving air, which makes me sound a little strange. Wait, is he just hot?

Is that why? Like he's just, yeah, he like runs hot. So like, yeah. Wait, so do you have a lot of, I like how you called out box fans. It's not like, hey, air conditioner running that full blast, having a ton of fans going, you're like box fans. Does he just like sit in a room with like four box fans like set up in a square that he's in the middle of and he's like yes peace yes i know peace oh wow okay

well dedication to the bid yes respect a lot of box fans yes yeah i'm i i run hot i i like a box fan because that's the cheapest way to keep mosquitoes away from you without having to because that mosquito problem is terrible in la if you're outside sadly we used to not have that issue but box fans are especially for people like me who like just get bit up all the time i can't recommend them at all oh maybe i need to rethink my box fan relationship no no of course i just like to like your area look i hope your husband's listening and yeah maybe let's dial back the airspeed a little bit. Okay, please, for everybody's sake. But just living in a wind tunnel. You guys have to talk. You're like, Hello? Can you hear me? in here i can't do anything right now well i mean actually it connects i hadn't thought about this it connects to bias because um like offices are kept at a temperature that is comfortable for men right right men are a little bit warmer than women and so yeah i think women women of the world

are are a little bit cold unfortunately i'm just i'm like i run hot like epically like like my wife she's like dude please get away from me like yeah like your body like your body's emanating so much heat like i don't know i'm like i don't know what's going on man okay i've been like this since i was a kid um so i i tend to sweat but i like the air over my skin i'm currently sweating through my shirt right now i saw you giving yourself the little shirt fans underneath. Little shirt fans. Those are underrated. Turning your shirt into a little fan.

Oh, yeah. Pulling the bottom out a little bit. That's also the sign that it's bad. You know what I mean? When you get to that point, you're like, shirt fan, shirt fan, shirt fan. Shirt fan, shirt fan. Yeah.

I feel you. I mean, that's just an everyday thing for me. All right. Miles. Yes. I mean, that's just, that's an everyday thing for me. All right. Miles. Yes. So Tucker, Tucker came back. He took a week off, kind of unannounced, but had some great guest hosts. And then he's back.

And we, we, we were speculating that maybe it was like a Alex Jones thing that had him shook. And that's why he was why he was MIA. We don't really know, but he was doing his homework, and he's ready to go to Civil War? Yeah, I don't know. Like we said last time, when the news came out about Alex Jones' cell becoming like getting into the hands of the sandy hook lawyers and then potentially the january 6th committee they're saying tucker was quote scared shitless because him and alex jones talk all the time now who knows what's in there but that was one theory but he was gone came back and yeah like we were saying like i'm not sure where the right

is going with this document shit first it's like well what is the definition of a nuke or like a document or classified and like when that wasn't going well it's like well then the espionage act needs to go and then it was like the fbi set him up and now tucker carlson is just not being very ambiguous he's kind of like saying there's a odd feeling in the air isn't there. And it would be wise if that were brought down. It's just something unprecedented and something awful. You could feel it.

Even Donald Trump feels it. Maybe for the first time in his life, Donald Trump seems sincerely interested in lowering the temperature, not just for his own sake, but for the country's. He said that he's never said anything like that maybe he doesn't mean it but when has he ever said that this is your guy a little he said this isn't good yeah he's right it's not good and not just for him for all of us this could get very bad very past and you say very past um but he seems a little shook. Like, this is my first time watching these. He seems upset.

As opposed to, like, usually he has that, like, faux. I don't know. You know, like, it's very composed. Faux outrage. Outrage, yeah. That it's like, man. But, like, here he's,'s like mispronouncing words he like seems he he looks like a little boy more than usual like he always looks a little bit like a puffy little boy but

here he i don't know what what happened he's i mean look it sounds like again rather than like a specific theory trying to explain away why trump had any of these documents it's now more about being like democrats are trying to kill you with justice essentially what it's just sitting down to he said earlier in the show joe biden declared war on all of us oh damn and so what's weird is what i keep seeing is the punditry and the media takes are in one direction. Like they're clearly trying to be like, y'all, we got to get our heads in the game. Donald Trump is in trouble and we need more chaos to maybe fight this back because this seems like, you know, like I was saying, we were talking about yesterday, like January 6th all over again,

but there's like a disconnect between their sense of urgency and like what the base is doing granted yes there were there was an armed protest outside of a fbi office in arizona there was that guy in cincinnati who you know was killed by the fbi like after he attacked that fbi office and there have been multiple people have made threats but in terms of like physical space here i just want to play this other clip because this is eric trump on the show too and he's also trying to be like man the energy out there folks you got to see it it's it's it's really something else and it just feels there's something like the anger among the mega base exactly and like also just like that everyone's like everyone's head

and head is in the game so this is is Eric Trump insisting that it's so bad that people were just crying at his feet when him and Laura were out for dinner. They're not even talking about any other Republican candidates because they've all kind of disappeared. They're not even in the equation. I mean, last night I had an argument between two people in a restaurant who are trying to buy Laura and I dinner to apologize to what the you know, for what the United States government has done to our family, Sean. sean i mean you wouldn't believe the energy out um so i mean you you wouldn't people trying to buy us dinner because they're so like that's just like dude you're famous the persecution is so bad famous person the level The persecution is so bad. You're a famous person. The level of persecution is so bad, it's at free dinners bad.

Okay, folks? We need your heads in the game, folks. The energy out here that you're not showing us that we need because we're panicked is bad. And that's what I'm saying. Like, there was another thing of, they tried to organize, like MAGA people tried to organize a protest outside of an FBI office. They had to cancel it because nobody went. And I really think that what we heard in that clip yesterday from Laura Ingram, it might be one of the most accurate sort of details right now, which is like they are kind of tired of doing this over and over again. Obviously, them being like in the victim's lane is like their preferred mode of outrage but

even then there's like something where like i don't know i could just hear it with like laura english like i don't know man i think people are tired i'm like i think she was talking about herself too of like i don't i'd much rather go like get behind a real fascist who knows what they're doing rather than this like circus that i'm a party to right now i mean is there any way that they're also just i don't like there's this tweet by this dude ben wexler he said there's nothing more nutty than the couple that couple hours where all of mega is waiting silently to find out what they're supposed to think yeah and he he tweeted that like when all this like nuclear secrets shit went down but i

feel like they haven't really like figured out what they're supposed to think because the nuclear secrets thing is just really bad and they're like like they so they're they're kind of panicking that like there's there's not really an angle on this and it's precisely like it fits so neatly into this box that was the but her emails world they were so consumed with right and they really have that's why that that clip from representative turner where they're like you you were really going hard at hillary clinton where's that energy right and all you do is like this is different and then do a word salad that wasn't compelling i don't take home nuclear secrets no i would never take i would never do that oh so it's a problem yeah and or we get the thing where people keep evoking that nixon quote if the president does it then it's not illegal but uh-huh like nothing is quite that why it's like, you're really interesting what they're going

to coalesce around. And I think it's just easier right now is just to go like, this is January 6th, right? Like same thing. They they're busted. Like they lost the election. Or in this case, it sounds like they have evidence of like him actually doing this, this, this crime they're cornered and they want to fight their way out of it. And it seems like that's kind

of the the reflex of them is to get like okay well now we're in a corner just start being like oh the doj is trying to declare war on you you and send all these weird fundraising texts trying to shame like maga donors being like we thought you were a patriot what happened donald trump's waiting on you to help so it's um a lot of a lot of confusion at the moment but yeah are there other indicators other than like you know them not showing up to protest the fbi and get their faces like entered into a database that will make it so they never board a flight ever again without like three hours worth of checks are there is there other indications of like flagging energy other than laura ingram seeming tired and tucker carlson seemingly because if you look you know like suddenly it's it's wild like a

lot of the conservative pollsters came out and said like hey actually trump's he's he's putting a smash on desantis right that's what i said that's what i saw and so i assumed that this was like going to be invigorating but that was also mostly i think that storyline came out before people were like it was nuclear secrets and like there's this whole ongoing storyline with the saudis that like he was trying to steal nuclear secrets or like reveal nuclear secrets to the saudis for financial gain which would be one of the most dangerous things that any any single human being could do right to the current globe like that that's that is it that would be a wild yeah like well i mean the if you want to say flagging energy, I mean, you know, you see the Democrats all very like, yes, the polls look favorable fucking finally for Democrats. And they're like, is this a backlash to, you know, allowing human rights to be rolled back and curtailed by the Supreme Court. Who knows? But guess what? We'll take it.

So the pendulum is like even electorally moving in that direction. I think the problem is the Republicans loved when it was like Joe Byron's inflation bonanza and they could keep hitting that button. But now they got them being like, fuck the police. And they're like, this doesn't feel right. This is not our thing. They're like, we were back in the fuck out the blue a second ago now it's fuck defund the fbi and i'm and then again we're like ironically i mean sure you got something there uh but maybe you don't have the full picture but i think it's just it's difficult because you're not you're also in a time when there are plenty of like lived experiences that you could use to turn into more populist talking points.

They're completely just focused on defending Trump. And then, sure, there are those conservatives who are like, yeah, man, leave him alone. And there are other people who I'm sure are probably like, fuck, man, life's fucking hard. Does someone have a solution here? And in that sense, I'm sure it's not energizing if you're somewhat if you're not all in on you know fascism yeah all right well i mean we we don't know we'll we'll keep an eye on it but i don't know it's gonna be yeah it's gonna i'm sure we're gonna see a lot more you know thrashing uh from that side before or not though for sure because that's just that's what we see and And yeah, I don't know.

I mean, it's like one of those things where I'm never going to be like, yeah, karma has arrived! Because you never fucking know. This is still America. Yeah, exactly. But like I said, I will revel in these moments where I see that they're struggling with this one.

Before, like, I really hated it when everything was like, that's fake news. Who gives a shit? Move on. Nothing fucking fucking affect us. We move on. I don't care if there are allegations of assault against this guy. We move on. Now they're like, well, I don't know.

And that is, I mean, that's different and I will welcome that. FBI did return his passports. Yes. So that's all three of them. It's the little wins, the little wins. Maybe that'll get him through the day. Yeah.

All right. Let's take a quick break. We'll come back and we'll talk about bias in the media and where it comes from. bias in the media and where it comes from. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series, Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed.

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This is Lucha Libre Behind the Mask. Listen to Lucha Lib libre behind the mask as part of my cultura podcast network on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you stream podcasts and we're back and miles you're pointing out there's this thread on twitter that's you know pointing to something that we've talked about before, I think. Oh, yeah. The, you know, insidiousness of unpaid internships.

Yeah. Being sort of a formal, like, well, you got to do a year of unpaid internships to get the gig. And it's like, well, that's... But how do I do that when the game in this country is i need job to survive right yeah yeah yeah yeah if you could do like 18 months of no money right then we we may open the doors and this author david dennis jr uh black author journalist and he's he'd have this thread he's like i've been writing about this for a long time but i just want to keep underscoring how he you know when people are talking about like, what's going on in our

newsrooms? Like, why are we both sides in like the most grotesque creatures on the planet or like giving them like the, the deference of like someone that absolutely doesn't deserve it. Talking about how we really need to look at how the newsrooms are filled specifically. And his experience is trying to break in as like a newsroom journalist. And in many media and I think many media operations are like this. It's not just journalism. It can be video. It can be film, television, publishing, publishing. If you want to be an agent, there will be like this thing.

It's like the unpaid internship. That's your way in. It's like the unpaid internship. That's your way in. And he's saying that when you look at places like the New York Times or these other big newsrooms and why people are like, why? How are they so out of touch? How are they like like barely having a bead of sweat looking at like like our rapid loss of rights or extremism in the country? It's because the pipeline to that place is just already out of step with the lived reality of Americans. And he's talking about how your way in is typically

an unpaid internship. And if you are someone who doesn't have the support system to not make money while working eight hours a day, that means your opportunities dwindle. But the people who are able to do that tend to be affluent, typically white Americans who are able to, you know, be like, yeah, oh, yeah, my parents can support me for two years if I don't work. And so that way I, you know, I'm blessed enough to get my foot in the door to get into these newsrooms. And he's saying because of that, you just get this one note thinking where a lot of

people are looking at life through the same narrow perspective and thus report the news from that vantage point and they all respond to the criticisms the same way because they're all kind of coming from the same place and i was just like oh right that that that is that that makes the perfect sense and he's saying that's why they're spending a lot of inches talking about culture war stuff or cancel culture when a lot of people were like, what about inequality? What about police violence? What about all of these other threats that we're facing? And yeah, like it just saying that because of that, and if we constantly put people through this first hoop, which is, are you affluent enough to not, you know, get make money for

a year and a half, then of course, we're going to get this kind of thinking across the board. And like you're saying, in many industries, I'm sure many people have seen this, not just in media, but anywhere that uses unpaid internships. You know, it reminds me of this observation that was made in the early days of computing in this country. There was this computer scientist named George Conway, who noticed that the structure of a piece of software always reflected the team that created it. And it came to be known as Conway's Law, which was basically like, software always exhibits the features of the people who created it, the team that created it.

And I think that's, that's like true in every field, right? Like what you see being produced is a reflection of the makeup of the people that are producing it. Right. And I think it goes even beyond internships. I mean, like I'm thinking about publishing. I mean, salaries in publishing are like notoriously really low and publishing is in New York City. So if so, basically, you know, that's sort of the whole industry is premised on the idea that you are going to have some kind of cushion or you're going to have some kind of way

to live in New York City on this like rock bottom salary for years while you like work your way up the ladder. Right. So it's like no surprise at all that publishing is as homogenous as it is. Right. Or and they also speak to the fact of like

even making your way in a newsroom, you're going to have to come past editor after editor. And if you realize an editor likes this perspective a lot more than that perspective, just by virtue of being a worker, you're going to be like, well, my work is going to fit into that because I want to please my boss. And even then you can start to see all these other patterns that emerge from there too. And like, to your point, I think it might've been Michael Crichton who was like pointing out that like,'s a like a huge problem like in scientific research where english is like the standardized language for scientific research and by every

like for so much scientific thought to be processed in one language is going to create a lot of rigidity and could potentially create a problem down the road that people aren't seeing because everyone is forced to think about problems in English versus the syntax or structure of many other languages shows that people even problem solve in different ways because of language that you kind of see this same thing. Like if people are continually being one note, then they're going to fail to actually identify things because of this just sort of like pattern of like normativity that comes through with just sort of getting the same kind of people, the same backgrounds and things like that. Yeah. That Conway law thing is interesting. I wasn't

familiar with that. Like just the idea that like when so many small decisions are making up kind of the overall structure, the overall like substance of a thing that like the people making those decisions just necessarily kind of imprint themselves on the sort of DNA of any of any program. That's totally I mean, if you think about like the architecture of Twitter, like Twitter was created by a group of white men who you know when they were growing up with like bulletin boards in the 80s didn't experience harassment they didn't experience like abuse you know in chat rooms and on bulletin boards yeah and so like they didn't even think about like building that into the architecture of twitter because they hadn't experienced it so So if you'd had a more diverse group of people in that room when Twitter was getting created,

I think we would see a different product architecture. And I mean, similarly, I wonder if there had been a more diverse group of people in the early days of Facebook, what if there had been people from a variety of different nationalities and backgrounds and countries? Like, would there have been more of like an immune system built in to the product architecture because you would have had a more diverse group of people start thinking about how this was going to play out in the world? like rated as not hot on Mark Zuckerberg's face smash had gone on to invent Facebook instead of Mark Zuckerberg, like who we'd probably live in a better world. Yeah. That architecture is built on horny rater.

And we have problems because that base idea turned into this other thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe. But yeah, I mean, it is like,

I just even think about i know like there are two anchors on msnbc who like kind of fit this description where like they both went to like the most expensive high schools in la connected families and yeah are like at the at the apex of like television journalism but i'm sure they had i mean they're talented people but again there's always like there's so many people that just in general, in the public, we don't realize how much of a leg up most of these people have had all the time. And just, you know, that's a whole other issue, too, that feeds into people's ideas of self worth. And we're like, you're only looking at these very privileged cases a lot of the time. Wouldn't it be amazing? I think about this a lot, like in the arts and

creative work in general, wouldn't it be amazing if there was like radical transparency in and you could see when you, you know, observe someone, whatever, what they were doing in their career, you could also see like what, like what the money situation was that created the possibility for that achievement i think that would be so illuminating 100 who knows i'm sure with like wearable technology like there will soon enough you could like look at someone that's fucking creepy but it'd be like yeah and that wearable technology was invented by somebody whose parents were in the prison and like millionaires off the prison industrial complex and they were like what if we could take this even further? Right. And monitor people where they are before we put them in prison.

That's just a guess. Right. Oh, I was just thinking just what you were saying about science and how even just our talking about science and thinking about science is kind of constrained by the fact that it's only in one language

with one set of syntax and one kind of way of expression makes me think about the fact that in like the field of ecology, for most of the 20th century, ecologists thought about the world primarily as being governed by competition, like the natural world as being basically a competitive landscape, red in tooth and claw, you know, species vying for limited resources. And some scholars have like proposed that the reason that they totally overlooked cooperation, which it turns out is actually fundamental to like every species like life on earth right right is that the scientists themselves were existed within this like heavily competitive right scientific establishment so like their whole their the conceptual frameworks that they were

drawing from were all competitive so that's what they saw out in the world when in fact like every species depends on some kind of mutual mutually beneficial relationship but they right from were all competitive. So that's what they saw out in the world, when in fact, like every species depends on some kind of mutual, mutually beneficial relationship. But they literally couldn't see it because it was killer be killed. That's all kids stuff. What are you talking about? That's all kids. And our newsrooms are like, my uncle's my uncle voted for Trump. He's not that racist. Let me do a race on this. So people understand my uncle yes not that bad or whatever or these are why these things of inequality might not hit my radar because they never they never came that close to me where i even considered it i mean i know it's out there but from my lived experience that's

completely different and i can see how all of that just sort of shapes you know i've seen a handful of uh youtube videos of the police acting badly but I've also some of those police have gotten dealt with. And, you know, I've never been nervous when the police pulled me over. So I think we're good here. Empathy. We can go back to using the police as our primary source for literally every story about crime and what's happening in the city right and they're like right and not even taking from the context of the police like you know they're telling you that to like keep the like the fear up so right there's the budgets increase and there's more like being like yeah yeah man it's fucking out of control man just fucking give them all the money they fucking need but yeah unpaid internships need. But yeah. Unpaid internships. Ban them.

Shout out to unpaid internships. The Economist, which I have to imagine has an unpaid internship program, just released, or didn't just. This was earlier, but I saw it in the real estate section of CNBC. I don't know how I entered that unholy hellscape but the real estate section of cnbc got my attention with uh the top 10 uh these are the top 10 best and worst places to live in the world and you won't find the u.s on either list that was the headline and so the study is done by the economist intelligence unit presumably with i i don't know where they're getting their i guess it's an independently run like survey so first let's just leave behind the fact that the economist intelligence unit thought it was cool to steal the

valor of the cia and other intelligence agencies. And, you know, like that is what they're drawing on there. Intelligence unit. Right, right, right. But the map is straight. So they have a map. City Livability Index, March 2022. Most livable, least livable.

Every single one of the least livable cities are in the global south and all of the most livable are like in western europe and like just traditionally like the united states western europe yeah uh nazaland and then you you can find a couple in australia shockingly okay and it's just it's it's not even like subtle bias right it's the you know so a writer and the guardian who's from nigeria pointed out was just comparing you know they had lived in lagos and you know and Vienna was ranked the number one most livable city in the world. Lagos was on the bottom 10 list. Yeah, and it was like, it lacks culture. Yeah, so this writer is pointing out Vienna scored a 96 out of 100 on their culture and environment category. Well, Mozart, I i mean hailed from

there so that's straight up lagos was 53.5 and you know they i i'm guessing they wouldn't have noted that filakuti like and you know a lot of his music and afrobeat like has a lasting legacy there. And it's just like the things that they are overlooking and the things like it just it reeks of like, yeah, well, I asked like my friends who lived here and they didn't ask a single like person of color or a person who couldn't afford to live through an unpaid internship to respond to this survey, let alone that there are crime statistics and things like that that are those self-reported police statistics

that are bullshit, are self-serving police propaganda. I think that's really interesting the idea right like because when you look at it even that this writer and the guardian is talking about like it's so clear that their idea of culture is like was it at the met did a moma or something like that like that's what culture is and you know the this author is like points out rightfully it's like yeah you know picasso was actually inspired by like african artists too right like you're aware of that like that's like the origin of culture is actually not in europe right in that case right it's really odd but yeah

like it it's weird because it's almost like they're they're trying harder to like explain to you why these places you like that the like you know developed economies are like ignoring like it's justified actually of course you know yeah of course yeah it's a this is it is like the well we put a scientific rubric we we used a scientific method to evaluate the worth of these places like a publication that calls itself The Economist is assigning economic value to these places. And then, you know,

it is ultimately an article about real estate and assigning value to places, entire cities, based on rankings. And I don't know. like real estate, just the longer we've done this show and the, you know, if you listen to This American Life or watch John Oliver,

you've witnessed real estate agents anywhere. Like it's like there was a This American Life episode where they sent a white couple to an apartment in New York City and a black couple and the black couple was sent away and told there were no apartments. And the white couple were immediately shown a bunch of nice apartments in the same in the same building. a similar like undercover thing or showed i guess similar undercover footage and like the a real estate agent just speaking in you know hushed tones being like well this is not these are not the type of neighbors that you would want to to live next to they'll like right hurt the hurt the property value like this it's just like it is and well, and it's not just small, off-the-record conversations. They have an entire, like, white supremacist apparatus that is enforcing their fucked-up ideals with, you know, seemingly scientific evaluations of cities. And it's just so out in the open but like done in terms that are just like

i don't know i i don't know how this article is excusable or like how it's still acceptable and in the modern world it also just seems like an insanely narrow way of thinking about it if you think that there's just some kind of like universal, universally good city that where everyone is, you know, for everyone, because like, cities are very different depending on who you are. I mean, I live in Minneapolis, this is a city that's often very highly rated for things like literacy and, you know, bookstores and theater seats. And we have some of the worst racial disparities in the country in terms of education and income and, you know, housing segregation.

And so, like, who you ask, you know, is this a good city to live in is going to really determine what the answer to that question is. Right. Yeah. And it seems like they're only they're like asking a very specific kind of like middle class type consumer of like, oh, yeah, I love Vienna. Oh, yeah, I love this place. And not to knock those places. But yeah, like when everyone is sort of looking, if most people agree that culture is equated or, you know, it's it's all about or it's defined by being in a museum collection like at a european collection or something like that then yeah that's that's a very specific version like someone like me who also likes music i would be just as interested to go to like lagos to see the the shrine where felakuti is like you know his son still performs and things like that appeals to me more so like

it's funny when i read that article from this where the nigerian person is giving their critique i'm like yeah that just sounds way your description of nigeria is way better because they probably didn't ask somebody who's like you were stationed in nigeria for a few years what was how was that like for you and they're like oh it was okay i don't know if i'd go back and like okay thank you that's my research yeah not to mention like vienna had like the highest rate of anti-semitic incidents like this year like it had like a record number of anti-semitic incidents and i don't know if that's factored into this calculation about vienna being livable for everybody either maybe not damn the economist yeah i don't know it's interesting that this is a open,

like all you have to do is look at the map. The map is just like not subtle. It's not subtle whatsoever. Basically, whoa, wow, all these places the U.S. invaded. Right, yeah, yeah. All these places the U.S. invaded and that have like been the target of CIA and, you know, economic like gangsterism by the United States. Like, huh. Weird that those places have don't don't fit, don't score well on the economists like SAT for city livability.

Yeah. Well, expected better from you. Relationship ended. Yeah. All right. Well, Jessica, it's been a true pleasure having you on The Daily Zeitgeist. Where can people find you, follow you, all that good stuff? Oh, thank you. Well, you can find me on my website, jessicanordell.com.

You can find my book, The End of Bias, A Beginning, anywhere books are sold. Support local independent bookstores, please. And yeah, the book looks at approaches that have been shown to change people's behavior, like measurably cause people to behave in ways that are more fair and more just, like some of the examples that we talked about. So would love to hear from you if you have a chance to check it out. And if you, oh, if you choose to read the book in a book club, I am able, as far as I'm able, I will zoom into your book club

and answer questions and chat with people. So if you would like to do something like that, hit me up on my website. You can contact me directly to talk about that as well. You heard it here. Great, great person to have to speak with for sure. Is there a tweet or some other work of social media you've been enjoying? necessarily, but I think it's important. There was a tweet that came out pretty recently referring to a study of preschool teachers where these teachers were asked to show they were asked to look at a video of preschoolers to note misbehavior. But actually, the study was a study of eyes. It was used eye tracking to watch where the teachers looked on screen. And there was a white boy, a white girl, a black boy, and a black girl.

And they tracked where the preschool teacher's eyes were looking on the screen. And they found that the teachers spent significantly more time watching specifically the black boy. There wasn't more misbehavior coming from him, but that's where their eyes went. And so it kind of connects to our conversation earlier about how teachers are, you know, that those early relationships are setting the stage for, you know, future trust or lack of trust and respect or lack of respect. And so I think that study is is pretty important to think about. I think that study is is pretty important to think about. Damn, that is wild. Miles, where can people find you and follow you? And what's a tweet you've been enjoying?

You can find me on Twitter and Instagram at Miles of Gray. Also, obviously, check out Miles and Jack got mad boosties, the NBA podcast. And if you like 90 Day Fiance, catch me on for 20 Day Fiance. And if you like 90 Day Fiance, catch me on 420 Day Fiance. Let's see a tweet that I like. I had one. Where did it go? Oh, this is just a link to an article I thought was very interesting and makes what warms my heart about Gen Z. Yet again, Taylor Lorenz wrote an article about Gen Z TikTok creators that are turning against Amazon. wrote an article about Gen Z TikTok creators that are turning against Amazon. And the tweet is a coalition of TikTok creators is pledging to cease all work with Amazon,

including shutting down storefronts and halting new partnerships until the company meets the demands of the Amazon labor union. And I was like, damn, be about it. Zoomers. There we go. Do your shit.

So yeah, going to, going to read that one later. If I, if I hawk up, if I pony up the money to read the Washington Post. You can find me on Twitter at Jack underscore O'Brien and on Miles and Jack. I'm at Boosties.

Yep. Tweet I've been enjoying. Ron Iver tweeted, I squat 315. I bench press 225. OK, well, well,, while you're lifting weights, I'm lifting my homie's spirits with little jokes and tomfoolery. And then Greta Gremlin's Barbie tweeted, E.T. is god tier, 80s blockbuster,

but its cultural impact has diminished because it's deeply uncool. Nostalgia bros won't fuck with it the same way they fuck with Back to the Future or whatever because it means engaging with a completely sincere, emotionally devastating kids movie. And I agree. E.T. needs a second cultural life. And I think it's getting it. I think they're putting it out in IMAX soon. I always felt for E.T., man.

E.T. was the shit. Talk about empathy. Yeah, right? Oh, I remember bawling watching E.T. Oh, yeah. You can find us on Twitter at Daily Zeitgeist. We're at The Daily Zeitgeist. On Instagram, we have a Facebook fan page.

On our website, dailyzeitgeist.com, where we post our episodes and our footnotes. We link off to the information that we talked about in today's episode as well as the song that we think you might enjoy. Miles, what song do we think people might enjoy? This is just like kind of very vibey track

from this artist called New Ages. N-U-A-G-E-S. And I just tracks that like start off with Alan Watts spoken word which is such a specific kind of vibe and it just reminds me of being in college when i first read the book by alan watts what the fuck man like what are we talking about here uh and this track you hear his voice and it's called dreams

uh but the production is really kind of cool so it's yeah check this out new ages with dreams all right well daily zeitgeist is a production of iheart radio for more podcasts from iheart radio really kind of cool. So it's, yeah, check this out. New Ages with Dreams. All right. Well, Daily Zeitgeist is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. That's going to do it for us this morning, but we're back this afternoon to tell you what's trending and we'll talk to you all then. Bye. Bye. Bye-bye. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series, Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church.

And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me for I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and Shekinah Church. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know

the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry, Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's basketball.

And on this new season, we'll cover all things sports and culture. Listen to Naked Sports on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio apps, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by Diet Coke. I'm Keri Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports.

Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.