The Daily Zeitgeist - We AREN’T Skibidi Cooked, Chat! with Etymology Nerd 09.23.25

Episode Date: September 23, 2025

In episode 1935, Jack and Miles are joined by linguist and author of Algospeak: How Social Media Is Transforming the Future of Language, Adam Aleksic AKA Etymology Nerd, to discuss… Who Makes Our Language? America’s Kids Ain’t Able To Read Good Or Math Good, Words As Windows Into History, What Is Even Sincere Expression In The Age Of Algorithmic Language And Content? And more! How did students perform in the nation compared to 2019? LISTEN: Spiral by BugseedSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What is the etymology of the Dream Blunt rotation? I wonder. Who came up with Dream Blunt? Shakespeare. That was actually Shakespeare. The donors are very creative, I guess. Yeah, right? I'll have to look more into it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I was an etymologist, I'd just always be like, Shakespeare, man. Right, right. That's the fallback. Oh, you didn't read that one? Well, guess who's stupid now? It's you. Or is it always just to be like, it's Latin, dog?

Yeah, I mean, now it's the fallback. days, it's either Kaisenot or Latin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait, what is Kaisenot? Is our Shakespeare? What's Kaisana not given to us in the major? Like Riz, Huss, Phantom, Tax, like all the popular Gen Alpha words.

Oh, really? I didn't realize that. Wait, what is Phantom Tax? It's like, the same sense is like taxing someone's food. Yeah, yeah. It's just like stealing someone's food. And do I have Riz? You have to ask.

You have it, right? Yeah, there's, I live by a junior high, and whenever I walk out when, or walk by when the school gets out, they all call me like, hey, dickhead. But I think that's like, cool. That's cool. Yeah, new slang word. It means you really cool, yeah. That's what I fucking thought. See, my partner thinks they're just, it's bad.

I'm like, nah. I'm like, that's right, dude. It's your dickhead, bro. Yeah, your partner doesn't know the daily zeit guys then. Yeah, that's right. We're here reading the tea leaves. a Gen Alpha yesterday. I was like, all right, explain 6-7, and he got so embarrassed, even though it's like

nothing bad. It's just like a thing that started saying. Do you guys remember like 21, like the Vine 21? It was like a joke when I was in middle school to say 21 and like 6-7 is the new 21. That's just like a funny number that doesn't mean anything. Right, right. I mean, we had 69 and it meant something. Well, that did mean something.

Yeah. Back in my day. Our nonsense numbers meant something. If I said 6-9, I wasn't going do-do, do, okay? That shit meant something. I was going. Nice. Every time someone said it.

And that's just what you did. Oh, yeah. We're going to reopen your Bibles, Philippian 6. Oh, nice. Jack, get out. Jack, get the fuck out of class. This is an eye. I'm Jorge Ramos and I'm Paola Ramos together we're launching The Moment a new podcast about

what it means to live through a time as uncertain as this one we sit down with politicians artists and activists to bring you death and analysis from a unique Latino perspective the moment is a space for the conversations we've been having us father and daughter for years listen to the moment with Jorge Ramos and Paola Ramos on the iHeartner Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The murder of an 18-year-old girl in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved for years, until a local housewife, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. America, y'all better work the hell up.

Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And to binge the entire season ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Introducing IVF disrupted, the Kind Body story, a podcast about a company that promised to revolutionize fertility care. It grew like a tech startup. While Kind Body did help women start families, It also left behind a stream of disillusioned and angry patience. You think you're finally, like, in the right hand. You're just not.

Listen to IVF Disrupted, the Kind Body Story, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the 1980s, modeling wasn't just a dream. It was a battlefield. It's a freaking war zone. These people are animals. The Model Wars podcast peels back the glossy cover and reveals a high-stakes game where survival meant more than beauty. Hosted by me, Vanessa Grigoriatis,

this is the untold story of an industry built on ruthless ambition. Listen to Model Wars on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, the internet,

and welcome to season 4.07 episode two of DirtyEly Zeitgeist! A production of IHeartRadio, this is a podcast where you take a deep dab into America's shared consciousness, and it's Tuesday, September 23rd, 2025.

Mm-hmm. What's that? It's the rapture. Hey, it's the rapture, baby. Buckle up. Time to join. Time to join them in the kingdom of heaven. Also, shout out my boy, Chris's birthday.

National Teal Talk Day. National Six. Snack Stick Day. Okay. Six. Snack stick? Snack stick day. So, like, if a stick is in the shape of, if a snack is in a stick form, then

it's snack stick day. It's also National Great American Pop Friday. Day. Also, Celebrate Bisexuality Day. It's also energized day, which sounds like some woo-woo wellness shit. Oh, because it's the day after the, oh, shit, is the equal? Oh, we're fully in fall.

Uh-huh. Forgot about that part. Oh, it's the Equinox yesterday? The 22nd, yeah. My favorite gym. All right, shout out to the great American Popeye. My name is Jack O'Brien, a.k.a.

You can go NU.I. Go NU.I. That one, courtesy of Kai, who said, to the tune of Go Your Own Way by Flew-Wamack, I think Jack said he used to say N-U-I, because he had only seen the word in text. Onwi, yeah. I was aware of both. I was aware of Onwi.

Oh. I was aware of the word in text that I just hadn't connected the cool-sounding French word with the word I saw in text that meant a certain vague French-y existential boredom. I was like, they should make those the same word. Alas, I'm thrilled to be joined, as always, by my co-host. are Miles Gray. Hey, it's Miles Gray, uh, a.k.a. Cry me.

My jeans so frozen day shiny. No hand washer line drying. Frozen crust is dripping like diamonds. Cry me. Because, you know, putting jeans in the freezer, no matter what the stain is or the situation. Not a great way to clean your jeans. Okay? Just going to put that out there.

Just put that out there. All I need is a cryo chamber and a chisel. I'll get all the dirt and shit off my jeans. There you go. We're thrilled to be joined in our third seat by a linguist who you know as the etymology nerd on social media. His new book out everywhere now is AlgoSpeak, how social media is transforming the future of language. It's Adam Alexei! Hello, am I supposed to have a musical intro as well?

Yes, go, Adam. I don't have anything. Come on, man. Improvise something now. It's fine. It's great to have you here, man. Thanks for taking the time to talk to us. Yeah, yeah.

I feel like this is, it's an interesting time because this, over the last year, I feel like we've gotten really into like Gen Z, Gen Alpha Slang and just going, what the fuck are they talking about? Are they okay? Am I okay? And yeah, your area of expertise lines up perfectly with that. Perfect. Yeah.

Because I'm a Skibbitty scholar. Oh, yes, yes. And I'm Professor Chimpanzee Bananini at your service. There it is. And I don't know what you guys are talking about. And I'm Jack. And I'm Jack. We're going to talk about all of that, plenty more.

We're also going to get into maybe a news story about flying cars. But mainly we want to talk to you about language and how it's rotting the brains of our youth. Or is it? No, we're not going to talk. We're not going to say that. But before we get to it, we do like to ask our guest, what is something, Adam, from your search history that's revealing about who you are? I just checked my search history and the most recent thing

was tra-la-lero tra-l-l-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la. Wait, why high-res, like the image of it? Yeah, yeah, I mean, you've got to have the high-definition version of it for some academic presentations. Is that your favorite Italian brain-rot character?

I think that's the most indicative of the genre. It was the first one that I encountered, so to me it has a special value. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm more of a tomb-tum-tum-sahur guy myself. Oh, he's great, too. Yeah, I guess for those that, don't know, I don't know why you're not caught up,

but it's like a shark wearing shoes and... Work on yourself. Yeah, yeah, obviously. Shark wearing sneakers on his pectoral fins, right? No, he's got straight up legs. Oh, he's got calves and shit. It's actually a weird animal hybrid. Yeah. It kind of varies.

Sometimes it looks like, yeah, but anyways, he got shoes on. He signed that Nike deal, man. Phil Knight got to him quick. He's like, man, I want tralladero, tra la la la in the fucking swoosh now. And as you're, like, reading the trends in language, are you ahead of the curve? Are you, like, basketball, like, the weird basketball savants who saw LeBron James as a 12-year-old and were like, this guy's the next croat? He's next.

And he's like, that's such a weird skill to have, but amazing that they were able to call that at age 12. Did you see Italian brain rot and were just immediately knew that this was the future? I genuinely think I'm more tapped in than your average linguist for sure. At this point, because I publicly comment on where words come from, people will tag me in videos where new words are being used. So I sort of have that opportunity to see it before it goes viral. Then I sort of get to monitor it over time. I think there is like, I do have maybe that awareness before most people.

But Italian brain raw, I was like a little early curve. How do I, over like Thanksgiving and the holidays, I will be around some Gen Alpha relatives. what's some like new wave shit I can kind of hit them with? So I think you just got to be talking to them. That's exactly it. They're more tapped in than we could ever possibly be because they are the ones that are defining the culture

and it just revolves around them. Okay, okay. So you're in a room with 12-year-olds and you're just listening. You should just start, yeah. Pay attention to them. Learn from them, you know, maybe interview them. Your Honor, I'm trying to get up on slang.

That's why I'm hanging out with middle schoolers. It's clearly an academic. I hate not knowing what Ohio means. Yeah, the Skibbity thing that we've dug into that the fact that there is an entire Michael Bay fictional universe in the works, in the Skibbity works, very confused by that one. I do, there's a certain artistic, da-di-esque beauty about the Italian brain rot. I'm very confused by, I guess the Skibbity toilet shit could be like da-di-est. a little bit, but it's very confusing to me.

Anyways, I can't wait to see the films from my favorite filmmaker, Michael Bay. What is something you think is underrated? Vibes. I think, like, I come from a background of academic linguistics where people tend to over-categorize things and don't recognize that things have feelings. Like, you have a feeling about a word,

which is why you adopt it. Right. Wait, so what's, like, sort of, like, the overly academic version of art? So, I think the most famous, like, example of vibes in linguistics is like Buba and Kiki. We all feel like the word Buba is round and the word Kiki is sharp. And yet

the standard models don't really have like an explanation for that. I think all of language is kind of vibe-based that like we have feelings about words and whether we like them or not and that's why we actually adopt them. I was with somebody recently who was like your name is either this name or this name. And they're like

oh, Miles is totally a this name thing. I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? I'm like, I became old. I'm like, my name is my name. It's not, I forget what it was, but they're like these two distinct names where they felt like vibe-wise, your name fit into one vibe or the other. But then it's interesting because I feel like vibes are a little subjective too. So like I got this like very, I've seen a lot of discourse about like, does someone's name like sound like it belongs to them, which is like completely a vibe-based thing. But like if it doesn't, people make nicknames or they make longer names or they like replace it.

Like that's how vibes work. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Adam, I feel. like kind of a soft has a soft name to it my miles has a nice soft feel to it like i'm the first dude that's not yeah no sure you're soft bro well it's interesting with like names with names especially like 50% of gen alpha names end in an end for boys like why you know like don't mason carson jackson grason like these are the most popular gen alpha names and it's because parents right now have a vibe that a masculine name ends in an end that's literally it it's all vibes based they need to know it's my son, Jack's son. That's important to me.

What is something you think is overrated? Efficiency. I think I spent a time, a lot of time studying algorithms, studying how people optimize for things. And I don't think that's where we find meaning and thing. Like Uber eats like delivering something straight to your doorstep. You don't experience the friction that makes life feel worth living. You don't bump into your friend in the street.

You don't interact with your local community. The efficiency of algorithms and how everything is streamlined in society is kind of boring to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Unless you hate running into people you went to high school with in public when you're high and you just want to get Taco Bell just quietly. There's a time in place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always found people to be an impediment to the efficiency of commerce. And so that's why I'm really excited about this new direction that our society has taken. This actually gets to kind of my first question for you is just, you know, the difference between I feel like you did a post on like quant speak and like how the the language of efficiency

is sort of bleeding in like one example that I've noticed I don't know if this would be categorized the same in your book but like the phrase replacement level is the thing that I've like from the world of sports analytics which is just like yeah they're like an average player but it like adds this sort of dark fascist like Thomas the tank engine thing where like everybody is just replaceable interchangeable. Yeah, people as commodities.

So I do, I notice that as a newish trend sort of vying with the more broad trends of like language seems to historically and even modern like today feel it's like a Democrat. phenomenon. It's like not top down. And it's, you know, it comes from like teenagers or like frequently persecuted minority groups. And like it's a way for people without officially sanctioned power to like weird wield their creativity and like power, which is I think beautiful. And that's what you see with a lot of these linguistic trends that scare people online. But then,

yeah, I do see also, you know, whether it be the world of like, you know, like analytics people or stat people or just like the corporate world, you know, creating these new phrases. I feel like that's sort of an interesting like dark and light side battle that we see in linguistics happening all the time. Do you think about it that way at all? That's so interesting. No, I think each community always finds the best way to speak for that community and it changes as the vibe changes again I think the vibe is important here it's very probably true that since the money ball era started the sports language has gotten more about like quantifying things and you're talking more about things like RBIs than you used to probably right people care about stats a lot more I think

as communities have shared values language emerges to reflect those values so the video you were referencing was about how math nerds and CS people kind of find streamlined optimized ways of communicating. I think that's definitely true because their goal is to find efficient ways maybe mathematically to express things. Same things is happening with middle schoolers, right? Middle schoolers are just vibing in that they are using language to connect with other middle schoolers to differentiate their identity from adults. And that distinction between top down and bottom up is kind of constant that we always impose like a layer like through dictionaries or through formal rules of what language is supposed to be. But then in reality, that doesn't

fit onto everybody and then different communities find their own ways of expressing themselves. Right. Yeah, I feel like, I mean, it's a fit, right? They're trying to find the most efficient way to communicate, but they're also trying to make each other laugh and trying to impress people, you know? And like, there's this book about the evolution of birds and the role of beauty and, like, how birds evolved. And so, like, you know, we tend to think of, you know, the way evolution.

works as like the survival of the fittest being like you know it's just everything is a something that was evolved to like feed or like defeat or dominate the other side and it's like know a lot of the stuff that birds have evolved to do is just to be like beautiful in a way that is like attract some other mate you know and so I feel like similarly in language you have how to most efficiently communicate your meaning but also how to do so in a way that is just like fun, you know, and, like, makes people laugh and makes people impressed by your creativity a little bit. Yeah, I don't think everything is about efficiency, right? I think it can also be you're joking, you're kind of trying to communicate that you're chill or laid back. Those

things aren't efficient. If you're being efficient, that it isn't chill or laid back. And I don't know, like, serper communities, like, we'll talk differently than the quants, you know, because they have a different goal in mind. They have a different vibe of how they're approaching language. Yeah. It does feel like teenagers, like how we experience language being spoken by teenagers today, and then how we actually use language that was spoken by teenagers in years past is like kind of at, you know, people don't realize how much of our modern dialect is just created by sort of younger people or, you know, I've heard people talk about upspeak being a thing that was started by teen girls and criticized and criticized and criticized and criticized. And until the people

criticizing it, we're also doing it with upspeak, you know? How do you, like, is that sort of a constant in your study of like how language evolves or also like persecuted minority groups, like gay and black people? You seem to really know what's happening that it often does come out of these minority groups because they have the biggest reason to defy the hierarchical imposition of language because that's not their version of language. The language that's being imposed is like the super straight white old man version of language. So, So minority groups, women, they're going to want to eventually talk differently than they do. And then they're kind of scrutinized by these other people, except these young people and the

marginalized communities are the ones that are actually generating the new language. And sometimes that leaks into the mainstream and then it gets adopted and then it gets institutionalized. And then we once again forget that it came from that group. This is a time-honored process that we see over and over again. But yeah, you seem to really have a good grasp of that. I think we have a tendency to call things brain rot, right? And the idea that words are bad for your brain, it's kind of funny. I think BrainRot is also a meme aesthetic.

And to be fair, the words that are spreading right now fit into that meme aesthetic really well. And the aesthetic is like pointing back to the algorithm and how the algorithm is bad for our brains. And these words are coming from the algorithm, Riz, Skibody, Ohio, Dubai, Chocola, LaBoo Macha, you know, all those are memes brought to us by the algorithm. And the words are funny because they're like algorithmic words. But I don't think the words themselves are bad. But, you know, we do have this tendency to call language bad, and we've been doing it time and time again.

And you go back to the 1900s, and there are articles about people, like, being upset at words that we now find normal. Right, right. I wonder, too, like, if it's kind of, you know, we sort of speak the same way, especially as kids, because you're referencing something in pop culture or, like, sort of in group as, like, young people. This is, like, a shared experience or value. And I wonder, too, because, like, I was trying to think, like, what the fuck was I saying that would have even been perceived as brain? rain rot, quote unquote, like, because again, this is all generationally cyclical where they go, what are the kids talking about these days? And I'm like, I wonder too, because like in the 80s and 90s, there was really a very limited amount of content, movies, TV, that sort of a lot

of people were experiencing at the same time. But with the internet, it becomes so much more specific that suddenly, like, everyone knows Ace Ventura or everyone knows the Budweiser frogs. So being like, we're like, or saying like, I still do that to this day. Yeah, same. Or all righty then is again the same way. We were just saying some dumb shit because it's from this thing you like, not because you're like, that's the way I talk.

You're like, we're like, we're saying the thing from the thing we like. That now because there's so many different like sort of inputs for like what, that what can affect someone's language or the kind of content that they have an affinity for, that now it's like, people are like, well, I don't know fucking skibbity of, Toilet. So what the fuck is Skimby Toil? No, literally. I think you raise a really good point about media and the role that media plays in our adoption of slang. And it's always been based on what we're consuming. So when hip hop in the 90s was influencing language, people would say things like, oh, shizzle. And then when, you know, movies were influencing culture, people that's,

you know, what's up? You know, the millennial slang that doesn't really stick around. Some of it does stick around, you know? Words like cool emerge from minority communities. They're now just like a part of language. But Vine, I think, in 2014, people were saying things like Bayfam on Fleak way more. Sometimes those are still around, but I think largely they were a fat in the general population. And same thing is happening now with TikTok. Some of the words are going to stick around. Some of them aren't.

Yeah. I also wonder if they're having to, like if we're seeing this moment of exploding, you know, slang that is like kind of extra inscrutable because everybody, like, that as Miles, as you were talking about, like, what were the words that we said to, like, define ourselves away from, like, previous generations? It was a lot of, like, swearing, right? Yeah, yeah, to this day.

Yeah, terrible mouth. But now the fucking president, like, swears. And, like, the vice president, you know, they're constantly swearing. So, like, I feel like you need new tools that aren't just the standard old tools of, like, saying bad words. But, like, you have to, like, create your own

sort of aggressive words. that like won't be used by the president on like you know what I mean yeah I wonder if that that is pushing the young people to like have to get extra creative and like create new ways of speaking because literally everybody says everything's on the table yeah yeah yeah you're kind of right that like absurdism is the only option here and and the importance of identity formation because young people are always trying to build a shared identity for themselves that's different from the identity of adults because they're trying to figure out who they are in the world. That's normal.

That's why young people are always the ones that are coming up with slang, whereas old people have a crystallized idea of who they are and what language is. But in a world where I think things are overly structured, like through algorithms which force feed us, like the content that makes them money and through like, I think society is structuring things a lot more. And but at the same time, we have this uncertainty about what's going on. And then we turn to absurdism. In the same way, I think you're right to point out Dadaism in like the night.

I think that's a really good analogy. There was a kind of that period of uncertainty going on as well. Yeah. Let's take a quick break now that you've said something I said was a good point. Just let people, you know, rest with that. He said something I said was a good point too. I know. Yeah, we're fucking killing it, Miles.

I was a high five you so hard. Justin, what's the score right now? Just text me the score right now. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be back to continue talking about this. I'm Jorge Ramos. And I'm Paola Ramos. Together we're launching The Moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through a time, as uncertain as this one.

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For almost a decade, the murder of an 18-year-old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved, until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls, came forward with a story. I'm telling you, we know Quincy Kilder, we know. A story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national TV. Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

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Listen to Graves County in the Bone Valley feed on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I started trying to get pregnant about four years ago now. We were getting a little bit older, and it just kind of felt like the window could be closing. Bloomberg and IHeard Podcasts present. IVF disrupted, the Kind Body story,

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And, yeah, so. First of all, I think, like, this seems like a great corner. I just want to congratulate you on it, like, just such a good time, such a wealth of material. It's like, you know, you're trying to study a culture, like a, it's just like the internet is like a real time live, like dig where you can just like watch all of the things happening, all of the different tools being used by the culture that you're studying. there there's definitely as Miles you alluded to like there we see a lot of stories about education sliding in the United States and that being associated with how people use language or just like I guess everything just gets associated with like well this this generation is bad yeah just look at them but I don't know I feel like that's a time honored tradition that happens with every every generation but this generation generation is particularly screwed, but not not because of Italian brain rot, I would have said. Well, I think just to like preface all that, like, there's this, you know, the, the group that comes out like with the nation's report card. Like if you, you know, the nations report card.gov,

which is like a congressional, you know, congressionally funded thing where they assess just sort of like what the educational system is like and how students are performing. Like the most recent one was pretty bleak. They're basically saying like 12th graders have like they are reading at their lowest level since this even process began of assessings in 1992 and the math scores are as the lowest they've been in 20 years. And I think, you know, a lot of people want to point to different things. They'll be like, well, it's the pandemic lockdowns or it's social media or it's the dang fucking skibbby toilet nonsense that's doing it all. But again, we've seen these trends sort of, they predate COVID and a lot of these other things because I think, you know,

there's been a systematic defunding of public education. And now we have. have like a literal villain from entertainment wrestling who doesn't know AI from A1 Stakesau sort of at the wheel. So don't see much happening to that trend. But I think, again, there's like this, a cycle. But right now it does kind of fit with a sort of bleak assessment that, yes, while our education system is in a pretty dark era right now, it's not always like this thing to lay at the feet of just basically like, and that's why they talk in this way where I don't understand the words back when I was working at the triangle shirt waist factory. We weren't talking like that. Maybe one of my hottest takes is that literacy is a little bit of a construct. I think it, to be

clear, I think it's incredibly important. We should have incredible literacy rates and math education and all that really does matter. But also it's a metric of how proficient we are in the medium of reading, which is sort of, let's be really honest with ourselves in a cultural moment. It's sort of a dying medium. And we also are facing and consuming content in other mediums like algorithms. And I think these skibbitty generation kids are more literate in the algorithmic medium than a lot of boomers are. They know like sort of, oh, this looks AI generate. And boomers are getting tricked by like AI slop Jesus shrimp on Facebook in 2022. They don't know what's happening at all. Boomers don't understand algorithms nearly as well as Gen Alpha does. So I would say there's a high

literacy in a different medium because that medium is more present in our society. Unfortunately, does mean a decreased maybe literacy and I think it is related because we're consuming algorithms. We are less literate. I think that's probably true. But it also has to do with the role of media in our society and books shouldn't be the only paragon of epistemic wealth in our society of like information that we are consuming. We should be literate in all forms of media. So that means I literally think there should be classes in how to look at TikTok.

And at the same time, there should be classes in how to read books because the more different types of information we can consume, the better it is overall. So are you necessarily saying like, ah, it's overblown that literate's like reading comprehensive? You're just saying there'd maybe zoom out a bit because I don't want to say anything that could be construed as I don't think it's important to read. Of course. And I think we should really have good literacy rates.

But I think we should also be paying equal attention to being literate in algorithms. And I think like media literacy is something people talk about, but as a buzzword. And they don't really understand what that means to really be. fluent in what it means to engage online and to go viral because there are so many like outside forces manipulating our understanding of reality in the online space literal government sciops there is um just AI flooding things you don't know what's real and what's not real and it's that kind of literacy where you can understand how to engage right so you're saying just sorry uh not to take us back but you're saying that that jesus made out of shrimp was not real no that wasn't actually

Jesus. It looks just exactly like Jesus. That looks so much like Jesus. I think whenever we talk about kids not being literate in books, we should also be talking about boomers not being literate on TikTok. Yes. Yeah, pretty interesting. Or TikTok filtered down to Facebook. Right, right. Facebook Reels,

which is like diluted TikTok slob. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Some of the worst. Yeah. I do like, so I feel like entomology sometimes gives us these weird like windows into history. Speaking of boomers, like, lately i've been pointing out how dumb i feel when i i use the word movies ever since i realized

what that word like the etymology of that like we joke about old people calling movies talkies right because they're like god damn that moving picture just talked but not realizing the reason we call them movies is because god damn that picture just moved it's moving It's fucking thing's moving. Kill it. Are there other words like that where they like give you a portal into just like how different people were like either stupid or simpler or just like how different perception? Yeah. I was just reflecting on Instagram reels.

Like what's the real? Real used to be a film reel, which was a literal like spool of film that was reeled around like a fishing reel. And then that got abstracted to the sense of this. lip that you watch and then that got abstracted to the thing you scroll on Instagram meals. And in fact, now that I just said the word scroll, scroll comes from unfurling like a scroll, like that's still how I consume Instagram, but that's, yeah, on a papyrus skull. Yeah, yeah, use your wooden dowels.

Ah, what do we have today? Yeah. Or a podcast being an iPod plus broadcast, broadcast being a style of communication where you disseminate information, like it used to be broadcast seeding in agriculture, which is a style of dispersing seeds. So this agricultural metaphor goes all the way back and influences the word podcast. I don't know, turn up the volume. We don't often turn a knob anymore or hang up the phone.

I often don't hang things anymore. We have these sort of vestiges in our language, and that's kind of what's compelling to me about etymology, that it tells this story about who we were in the past and how we've evolved as a culture. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One thing, just going through some of your posts on butterflies. Wait, wait, let me stop you on the word post. Like, why do we call it a post?

What's up with that? It used to be, like, physically something was stapled to a post. Yeah, that's fucking crazy. I was just noticing, this actually made me sad. I was noticing at my doctor's office, like in the hospital, the waiting room, they called the town square because they're, like, trying to appropriate, I guess, the language of community and stuff, which I feel like is all over the place that, like, as we're being kind of converted into these little, you know, cellular beings of, like, consumption and,

you know, just being isolated from one another, I feel like that people are, like, trying or, like, corporations are, like, trying to just, like, gesture at, like, old-style community things to just be like, hey, guys, like, we're all part of the same. same community hanging out in a town square. Wait, so hosting things to one another. Would you like check in for employment, then like, okay, have a seat in the town square? In the town square. And you look my hand and you're like, these fucking chairs?

I was like, uh, yeah. And then everybody just sits there and waits for their name to come up on a screen. I think there's a lot of like community buzzwords. I don't know. In the content creation space, I'm so sick of the word authenticity. Like we all know we want authenticity, but they throw around that word like, like it doesn't mean anything anymore. Yeah, that's the part that I'm really, like, in hearing you talk about algorithms and also just like how algorithms are informing how people speak, that, you know, like so, there is so much power in these algorithms.

And some people, I think, maybe are aware of it and maybe others somewhat aware, but to a lesser extent, maybe not fully understanding like that these are being manipulated for someone else's gain a lot of the time. Um, but like, you know, I was struck by your TED talk when you talked about how like algorithms find a way to quickly, like to go get people into this hyper compartmentalization and that the algorithm, the point of these algorithms is to sort you more easily and that the idea that, you know, when you get into something and you're saying like, oh, I'm into cottage core gork core fashion or whatever now. It's like, like you said, you're like the algorithm actually gave you that identity based on what you were. interacting with. And that's like a really just sort of mind fuck kind of thing, too, that people are also chasing algorithmic words to, A, get their content be seen more or to be more popular. And I see this a lot in, especially like sports talk on YouTube, I just see it a lot in any YouTube where it's about commentary, where people know that using certain words or certain talking points or certain topics as outrage bait is just how you get more eyeballs like on your shit but it's no longer sincere expression because now you are

completely chasing the algorithmic goal of relevance and like you know when i like i'm i'm curious now like no one is just saying how they feel in certain again certain genre of like youtube content no one exactly says how they feel they just see they just say what they believe will get increased engagement how do you see like that playing out just sort of as we go down the road like as sort of this way of thinking becomes more consolidated or like one track because it's it used to be it's like well this person's interesting and people are interested in what they're saying and now it's like no i need to say these five words to get my shit up in the algorithm and the algorithmic ratings and then that's how i will become relevant yeah where i mean we're definitely performing for the

algorithm there's this idea of like signaling not only to your audience but like using words as metadata because the algorithm reads everything when you upload it it knows that you're using certain words and i'll use those words to target your audience audience. Metadata isn't just like hashtags anymore. It's anything that gives information about content. And the video itself, the words you use in the video are information. So it all becomes part of this loop of the algorithm being able to categorize more, identify more, pin you down as a person better, right? And we are playing into that. I will say, like, people have always been performing and playing into the medium. Like, I think TV broadcasters are really fake. Like,

they don't, they're performing. You don't know anyone who speaks like this, Adam? Right. They're performing for the idea of how you're supposed to talk on TV. And I think influencers are performing for the idea of how you're supposed to talk on social media. When I write a book, I'm speaking in formal English, which is not really how I speak in normal life, but I'm performing for the idea of how you're supposed to write a book. All of it's a little bit fake. I think it's okay to reconcile that fakeness with recognizing that we are going to communicate differently in each medium. That being said, let's take a step back and look at what these algorithms are doing.

And yeah, it's really weird that they run under a system called techno-futalism, where they simultaneously, like, are, that we create the product, we consume the product, and we are the product. And all they do is they find more ways to put us into boxes and understand how we fit into this product space. And everything is commodified.

All of our language is evolving through this consumerist lens of what can make the algorithm's money. Just extract value through, like, you know, observation and, like, selling information about you or selling something directly to you, like, and you're just, just, like, kind of they're dancing for them.

You can't communicate without generating value for them. To go viral is to help the platform. Right. And that's what, and that's what excites me about this, is that I'm creating value for Mark Zuckerberg. Yeah, what could we be talking about right now, Adam, just so I can maybe up our algorithmic score here. What would be talking about?

All right. I think we're past the summer of the Machilabu-Dubu-Dubai chocolate, but I don't mind saying it one more time, just in case we can catch the tail end of that. We try and average three. Much a little bit of my chocolate. Much a little bit of my chocolate. Uh-huh.

We try and average, there's at least three of those. Six, seven. Dude. Um. And to be clear, six, seven doesn't mean anything, right? It's kind of like skibbity. It's just funny. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I, just looking back, uh, looking back at, uh, as I was mentioning, some of your posts on, like, the origin of butterfly names because that's, uh, something that I have a seven-year-old. Seven-year-olds are very curious about, like, Like, this is a naturally fascinating subject matter for just, I think, all humans. And, like, my seven-year-old this morning was asking me for the origin of 50 cents name because his, like, art book had a piece of art that had, like, 50 cents head on a cockroach's body. He's like, who's that? Why is he called 50 cents?

Like, they just, you know, they constantly want to know why is everything called everything. But, uh, we, a textbook has a 50 cent bug me. No, no, it's like an art. It's like a street. art book that we bought for him. He didn't, like, it's not through school. Got it, got, I got it, got it. I was like, yeah, the curriculum

is taken off. Yeah, things are fucking cool now in a second grade, but butterflies come up a lot because every time we see a butterfly come through, I need to know the name and the derivation. I was looking at one of your posts, and so two names that I think

are like interesting little portals into history. One is California sister, which I just thought was a cool name because I just think it's cool to call people brother and sister. And it's, but it's actually just like a nun, people are like that, that looks like a nun's habit because it's black and white. And which is, I guess, a window into history when like 40% of all humans you'd encounter on a daily basis were like priests and nuns. So that was like the only, uh, yeah. Dude, I was, I was thinking about the word habit the other day. It's crazy they brought

that up because, um, habit like, like a routine, like a thing that we do. That comes from the sense of, like, clothing that, like, nuns would wear. It's just like, it's like a routine of them to put on a nun's habit. And then we start calling that a habit to do something as a routine. It's crazy. It's just nuns all the way down when you go back to history. They were the first drag queens, giving us the culture back then. Yeah, the worst drag queens ever.

It's just the least. But then the other one that was, like, the opposite that was painted lady, which I always thought was just like a pretty sounding word. but it's a historical word for sex workers. Yeah. So you have to like understand history on both extremes. Yeah. You have to understand history through the prism that people were,

I feel like usually starving, usually slightly drunk and just ravenously horny at all times. And so like painted lady, they were just like. What's really different? Hell yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think just less starving maybe and less drunk for sure.

Oh, yeah. But still incredibly horny. But the fact that they saw. a butterfly. And we're like, hmm. That speaks to their reality. I think what we name things really is an indicator of what's going on. And if we're naming things absurdly right now, that's because there's something deeply dissonant with our current understanding of society. So I don't think 6-7 is like some arbitrary thing. I think it's, you know, it's reacting to the current state of modernity. Yeah. Or in the official version of things, it's actually just the height of the president.

and that's why they're referencing it because he's six foot seven and Takashi six seven strong and cool yeah I think one thing is just so funny to me is like we're looking at how 11 year olds talk and then being like society's cooked and you're like they're fucking 11 you know what I mean like there's this like thing it's not just how 11 year olds talk is how 11 year olds talk and everybody starts using it and yet I think there's something deeper to what these 11 year olds find compelling if you look at skibbity toilet for example it's a story diegetically narrated through the lens of a camera-headed Android. And these camera-headed creatures are interacting with other cameras, like with iPads. And they're fighting this fictional

series of toilets. But what that means is it's a state of technology versus the basest thing you're taught is like a bad where bad things go, which is the toilet. So it's like this raw force versus this. Hell yeah. Well, it literally if you're an iPad kid going on Michael Bay version, you're like, holy shit. Hey, we should be doing a critical reading of Skibbitty toilet. I think If you're an iPad kid growing up in the state of technology, you understand that this is some deep reflection of their state of reality. Yeah, I was reading a lot about death earlier this year and just like, you know, our fear of death. And historically, it's very connected to shit because it's like that's the most base, like, human, like animal body thing that happens that, like, you can't deny that you're just an animal that's going to die in the context of shit. It's just like so far from anything else.

So that that's interesting also that like that is, you know, this higher level like robot camera headed thing that is like what people feel like they're evolving toward. And then the enemy is head in toilet, like human animal, dead, you know, dying shit body. Interesting. I feel like. Yeah, I've never thought about this lens. That Skibri Toilet is a confrontation of her own mortality.

I think that's a very poignant. point you raised. I saw like early case studies when Picasso was doing the Guernica and I felt like there there was a skibbitty toilet in there. But replaced it with a conformed mother. But yeah, this was something. I'm wearing Guernica shoes right now. That's crazy. You are? Yeah. Damn. Timeless, man. Timeless piece. Crazy. Timeless piece. Yeah. I should invest in skibbity shoes as well. Yeah. Or maybe just put, make skibity toilet like the Guernica. I feel like that crossover. You put skimity toilet. Or really, the point is that it's synonymous. It's, the horrors of war in technology and modernization.

I think that's the lens to read it through that, you know, it is this period of time when we look at Marcel Duchamp's fountain, you know, that's a urinal, and we go back to, we're talking about dataism and the modern state. It's very related. Yeah, agree. Let's take one more quick break. We'll be right back.

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on ruthless ambition. Listen to Model Wars on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. All right. Just one last question.

As people are facing the existential horrors of AI. We've seen people try to create a robot slur of like clanker which I don't, I've seen people be like I like it, it's going to work. I don't know that it is going to work

but like how do you feel like languages evolving both in how obviously the corporations really want us to love and embrace AI and then I think there's probably like some deep-seated discomfort around that and then AI is going

change how we use language how are you thinking about that this comes back to that thing i was talking about vibes and the cultural moment and how language is not some arbitrary thing but it responds to greater pressures clinker is here because there is a greater societal concern about the rising role of AI in our culture that's that's why we are since early this year people were like trying to find a slur for robots i remember tweets people saying like oh we need a slur for robots and then clinker went viral I think in part it went viral because it was used an analogy to the N-word, and that generated more comments, which are

more engagement, which pushes it further in the algorithm. A lot of people are like, damn, y'all really love using a slur, huh? Right, right. What's your slur for this? I'm like, and then the discourse about how it's being used as a slur also helps push the word further. And it's all in a kind of a positive

feedback loop of words getting pushed into the mainstream by influencers who are using it because they know it's going viral and they're trying to tap into a trend. And I call it the engagement treadmill. You know, there's like a word, it's trending. People use the word because it's trending, it becomes more trendy. That's like the cycle we're in.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's a fun one too. And we enjoy it and we all love it. And we're excited for the future. It feels like so much energy to be like clankers. Like as if it's that impressive, like it's individualized enough to be like that

clanker over there. It's like, no, dude, AI just fucking sucks. Yeah. But again, that's my generational take too. You're anthropomorphizing it, which I think is weird. I don't think we should be treating these things as humans. And it's strange to me that, you know, it's designed, chat chapit is designed like a text messaging conversation.

It's designed to trick you into thinking, it uses first person pronouns. It's going to mirror your linguistic responses. And because it's psychologically designed to trick you into thinking that it's human so that you believe it more or you interact with it more. And we kind of, I think Clanker elevates it, if anything, to a near human level. Which is so strange to me.

I think it's, again, like I was saying, like, it makes it seem more impressive than it is. Because, like, no, that's this, we're not talking about, like, the film AI or something or something out of, like, Isaac Asimov's, like, worst nightmares or something. This is just, like, where people are falling for, like, this chat-based party trick thing. Yeah. And, yeah, it's, I might keep it there. There's, like, my, R-slash, my boyfriend is AI or R-slash-A-I soulmates where people genuinely have fallen in love with their AI companions.

And it's, like, unironic. they really think this is like a real thing and they're like being persecuted like so like i think part of these concerns with clanker genuinely found it and people experiencing a i psychosis and having a shattered grip on reality because you're interacting with this machine which is trained to be in a positive feedback loop of reinforcing your biases and your cognitive fallacies and then you you think it's real it's love hate you know like i get mad at him and i call him clanker but he lets me use it because he's like we're actually it's okay i'm married to a My daughter's half clanker, so, you know, I'm sorry if I say that, you know what I mean.

I go to the clanker cookouts, you know what I mean? So, yeah, I'm good. I'm good. But, yeah, it's a part of the same illusion where it's actually just the forces of capital with like a mask on that makes it like clever and, you know, friendly and kiss your ass, like nonstop. That's basically a machine for a common theme of modern language is the forces of capitalism. Yeah, yeah.

All right. Well, Adam, wonderful having you on the show. Where can people find you, follow you, find your book, read you, all that good stuff? I'm etymology nerd on platforms, but I think my book, AlgoSpeak, says it all. Hopefully more people are still reading books. Yeah. Go check it out anywhere. Go to a, you know, local bookseller if you can. But it's everywhere. Books are sold. Is there a work of media that you've been enjoying? Yeah, well, I've been trying to connect with the non-alorithmic stuff. off having spent so much time on algorithms, trying to reconnect more of the album. I've been listening to a lot of Stevie Wonder recently. I think more people should listen to songs in the key of life.

It's just such a good album. Yeah. What are you liking on that album? If we're talking about vibes, that is a vibey album. That is, it's such a message of positivity, I think. I mean, he kind of goes through, like, all of life, like pain, breakup, but he wraps in this message of love, and I think it's really beautiful. And it's also influenced so much, you know,

else. Like, the Mario Kart soundtrack is based on it. The gangsters Paradise comes from pastime paradise. Yeah, yeah. The song Saturn by Siza comes from Saturn by Stevie Wonder. So he's influenced our culture, but he's done through this in a message of like love. And I think that's really beautiful. And it is possible to positively influence culture. So I think it's a good album. Yeah. All right. I'll give it to him. He's all right. I'll check out the Stevie Wonder.

Nothing is a copy about him. Miles, where can people find you? Is there a work of media? You've been enjoying. Wait, was he the guy who was on stage the MTV VMA is doing Wow, Wow, West? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's where you know him from. That guy. Yeah.

He's a musician also. I thought he almost got exploded by an onstage pyrotechnic. Dude, do your own research. He's actually only pretending to be blind. Will Smith also borrowed from Stevie Wonder. No. I just saw him do a sick freestyle. The guy who had the really supportive fans that looked, kind of had weird hands in that one video.

Will Smith? Yeah, I'm pretty sure the part that he borrowed from Stevie Wonder was where he goes, wiki, wow, wow, wiki, wiki, wiki, wiki, wi, wiki, wiki, wik, I don't know a ton about Steve. Yeah, find me everywhere at Miles of Gray. Check me talking about 90-day fiancé on 420-day fiancé. One work of media, like this post on blue sky, uh, K-Nibs, k-nibbs, k-nibbs. Dot B-Sky.Sov. Uh, it just said, one of the, one of the downsides of impulsively getting my husband a python

for Father's Day has been opening up the fridge to this sort of thing. And it's like a normal shot of a refrigerator, but you look inside and this box just says, Mice to Go, one frozen medium rat. And just Mice to Go is such a funny. And the design of the box is like it looks like a World War II. Yeah. It looks like a Pixar thing. It's food for food.

It feels like a thing from the Simpsons. It's like mice to go. Your Python's favorite brand of Frozen Rat. There you go. Let's see. A work of media I've been enjoying, you know, weekends or Ferdic Kids. So we watched Dunstan Checks in this weekend, which we had. I never saw.

I missed that one. I think he came out when I was like 16, 15. And so I missed that the first time around. But the kids were howling with laughter. I love that movie, dude. Great performance from George Costanza, Jason Alexander, like, you know, with hair. Exactly. A lot of fun.

Don't forget Paul Rubin's is also. If you got kids and you're looking for a fun, it's like G-rated and should not be. There's lots of guns and weird shit, but, you know, if you got kids who are over the age of seven, there, it's a good one. Yeah. Everybody's smoking. Shout out to history. You can find me on Twitter at Jack underscore O'Brien and on Blue Sky at Jack O'B, the number one. You can find us on Twitter and Blue Sky at Daily Zeitgeist.

We're at The Daily Zitegeist. On Instagram, you can go to the description of this episode, wherever you're listening to it. And at the bottom, you will find the footnotes, which is where we link off to the information that we talked about in today's episode. We'll also link off to Adam's book there. We also link off to a song that we think you might enjoy. Miles, is there a song that you think people might enjoy? Yeah, this is a track from Japanese beatmaker bug seed. I've probably recommended a track or two of his before, but this is just, he just makes solid boom-bap instrumentals.

and for somebody for people of a certain age sometimes you play an instrumental in your car and you get to rapping and tapping you know what I mean so this is a track for you but also just a really solid instrumental it just I don't know

I music is always very transport it transports me to a wonderful era and boom bap hip-hop I love you so this is bug seed with the track spiral all right we will link off to that in the footnotes

the Daily Zike is a production of IHeart Radio for more podcasts for my heart radio visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. That is going to do it for us this morning, back this afternoon to tell you what is trending, and we'll talk to you all then.

Bye. Bye. The Daily Zite Guys is executive produced by Catherine Long. Co-produced by Bay Way. Co-produced by Victor Wright. Co-written by J.M. McNap. Edited and engineered by Justin Connor. Ah, come on.

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