The Daily Zeitgeist - Weekly Zeitgeist 253 (Best of 11/21/22-11/25/22)

Episode Date: November 27, 2022

The weekly round-up of the best moments from DZ's season 264 (11/21/22-11/25/22)See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me for I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and Shekinah Church. Listen to Forgive Me for I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just

starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports.

Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeartWomenSports. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. What was that? That was live audio

of a woman's nightmare. Can Kay trust her sister, or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, the internet, and welcome to this episode of the Weekly Zeitgeist. These are some of our favorite segments from this week, all edited together into one nonstop infotainment laughstravaganza.

Yeah. So without further ado, here is the Weekly Zeitgeist. So without further ado, here is the weekly zeitgeist. Miles, we are thrilled to be joined by a patient and brilliant filmmaker, writer, actor, comedian, podcaster, who co-founded what the AV Club called one of the best podcast networks out there, Small Beans, where you can find he and a bunch of the most talented people we worked with at Cracked hosting shows. He's the host and creator of One-Upsmanship on this very network. It's the brilliant and talented Michael Swaim! Oh my goodness. Hey, gang.

So great to be here again. I am Michael Swaim, a.k.a. I remember when, I remember when, I remember when I lost my Michael There's something special About that sway That's after several months Of singing lessons Still not good

But I just joined TikTok And I was confronted With that run That's good It's the new Running up that hill Yeah Wait is it?

Oh did they just discover That song? You're supposed to have Your fingers on the pulse, guys. Yeah, no, no, no, no. This person did a specifically incredible run of I lost my mind. And it sounds like a computer. But she really did it. And everyone's very impressed.

That's all. I got three C words for you. First, Cosmic Crisp, the brand new apple. That's the best apple out there. Cosmic Crisp? Cosmic Crisp is killing it. In fact, our local grocery store is now constantly out of the Cosmic Crisp. Wow.

And it says there's a big sticker on it. You know, this is how it got me. It says, tastes like candy. And boy, it sure does. Oh, wow. I don't know what kind of genetic monkey shines they got up to. Like, I'm sure it's not healthy, but it's a great apple. And then compote.

You left out compote. Yeah, there's jelly. There's gelé. And a compote. Mash, muddle. But I'm a fan of the compote like that. There's a crayon orange compote from Trader Joe's that's excellent. Oh, okay.

There's a crayon orange compote from Trader Joe's that's excellent. Oh, OK. So what is that? What's the difference between a compote, jellied log and relish? Well, I watch a lot of competitive reality chef game shows, so I've learned that very little. Like I've learned that when you present the dish, part of it is bullshitting like you used to on high school essays. Like, I really think part of it is being very good at calling it a gelée and staying up with the new trendy lingo.

Like a puree is something else I forget. You're like, it's a consomme. And I think it's just words. But I would say there are broad categories and they usually refer to like the viscosity. Miles had it right. It's the chunk. You see the meat of the nut or the chunk of the meat or whatever yeah yeah yeah meat of the fruit but i think compote to me implies multiple it's cranberry and you got some orange in there a compote is when you when you make a jelly do you also like boil it in like sugar water? Horse bones.

I do know jelly is like when like the can like solid and then jam is when there's still. Yeah. Yeah. From my time of watching those cooking shows, too, I think it's like when you have when you're like cooking the whole fruits down in like sweet water. And then from there, like you can. I don't know who gives a shit this is this is a terrible cooking according to the oxford english dictionary it's it has to be cooked in syrup to be a compote that's why it tastes like candy yeah exactly i think we're i think we're seeing a trend here yeah i just like that marketing now for fruit is like man fuck the fruit part of

it this shit tastes like candy and it was yeah oh great yeah that cosmic crisp is such a choice with the name i love it yeah the little circular sticker on it is a little galaxy purple galaxy it's very hype for an apple i guess that's the only way i can say it yeah cosmic yeah it also like suggests some like psychedelia mixed in there. I mean, they have a very specific vibe. Yeah. Yeah. It's not your granddaddy's apple.

It's a cross between the enterprise apple and the honey crisp. So I think the enterprise is what's giving you the cosmic. Ah. Yeah. Is that real? Is that right? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. This is on cosmic crisp dot com, like the fucking lobbying site of the fruit itself. Wow. I like to stand there at the apple aisle like it's a weed dispensary and just talk up and down the various strains. Right. This apple gives me a real body tang. I don't know. What do apples give you? Yeah, I truly can talk about apples all day.

Talk to the grocer. The jazz really had a strong opening and then has it really held on as much as I wanted. Gala used to be my standby. Will you fuck with a gala? I do. They don't retain their crispness as quick as much as the Honeycrisp. Like I have had some mealy gala before, whereas Honeycrisp are like, you know, 99 for 100. You know, they're almost always crispy.

Yeah. Whereas Gala, it's a little bit more of a crapshoot. They're almost always really good, though. I'm in a purple train wreck apples right now. What's that? It's just a weed strain. Yeah, I know. You're like, wait, hold on.

Nah, nah, what? Because that got my ears perked up. I was like, well, hold on. Well, you know, you smoke through a hollowed out apple, but people underestimate how important what kind of apple affects the weed as it goes through. And then you eat it after if you're a real fucking loser like we would in junior high. I do feel like, not Honeycrisp, Granny Smith would be because it feels like it's the densest, hardest apple. Would Granny Smith be the best apple to smoke out of? And it already kind of,

that flavor I find is adjacent to what lawn trimmings smell like anyway. So you got the grass-grass synergy going on. Oh, interesting. Yeah, you don't want to, yeah. It feels like a utility fruit. You know what I mean? It's a shit apple.

It's a just straight E. Bad apple. Can we all agree? Yeah, it's not a great apple great pie apple yeah great pipe terrible fruit that's right rowan gotta ask you our guests uh what is something from your search history that is we don't reveal something about who you are what you're currently searching i guess you know i actually look back i was like what who am i what can i tell from my search And what quickly was revealed to me

is that I have been checking the snow report a whole, I live in Vermont, so I've been checking the snow report a lot the past few days because there's a great cross-country ski place like half an hour away from me. Oh, wow. And like, winter just hit Vermont hard out of nowhere

like a week ago. Like, I got back from a trip and there was snow on the ground. I was like, i'm not ready but then after like a you know a short batch of depression i was like but snow so then i started checking the ski report and uh yeah the with this one ski place just opened so that's my winter salvation how's still looking and they're they're open for sure down okay downhill places like stuff. They're, they're going.

Yeah. Okay. Good to know. I'm saying the one ski place I know in Vermont. I used to play hockey in that area. So like I went there once and I was like, yeah, I know about Stowe. But wait, so did you grow up in New England? Yeah, I did in Vermont.

Wow. Okay. So that's very like the way you just talk about it's like, yeah, the winter comes. I'm from the San Fernando Valley in la where we have no seasons so whenever i hear like or even you joelle or like justin talk about chicago and like winter i'm like wow and your coats they don't get hot right when you're walking around you don't get hot in your jacket you got to take it off in the little street cool cool cool so i'm always i love i love hearing people be like i'm checking for actual sweaty a 20 degrees can be like a curse and a blessing you know because it's 20 degrees is like the cold

you can stand you're like it's definitely cold but it's also cold i want to die right you know but anything below that suddenly you're like it's okay if my body shuts down i don't shouldn't have to be faced with this level of brisk air hitting my skin. 20 degrees. 20 degrees sounds like certain death for me. But what, Ron, where are you at? What's your temperature scale like as a Vermonter? Yeah, 20 is kind of like that magic tip where like if you're out doing stuff in it, exercising, you're pretty warm. You're like, oh, it's not so bad. Once it gets down to the teens, like even if you're you know working pretty hard it's yeah it's pretty freaking cold right if you haven't done a winter before remember to pop out your piercings before you go into the cold

my roommates had to learn that the hard way what also from california yes you're the metal will freeze your skin oh wow yes dude we're just so laid back in california man like what are you talking about they're like two hoodies is like a coat right like no yo i even know that no two hoodies is not a coat but yeah and and don't lick a metal ladder i did that once when i was a kid oh no yeah look that's california math for you uh rowan what is something you think is overrated? All right, so I'm going to get myself into trouble with this one. All right, go ahead.

I've started to think, you know, like, so I'm a professional food writer, right? I do a lot of tasting, like closely, like thinking about, oh, does this go with this and so on? I'm starting to think red wine is overrated. And that's, yeah, exactly. Wow, go on, tell me why. I mean, like, admittedly, Rowan, I, I know, I know, I know about wine, but I'm not like my palate isn't that discerning. Like, I know different varietals, but I'm not out. Look, most of the time I'm like, is it screw top or cork? Yeah. But what do you tell me? Like, walk me through so I can I can say something cool at Thanksgiving. Be like, oh, y'all drink a red wine.

Yeah, I go for it. I think you should. So, yeah, like red wine is kind of considered like the ultimate drink. Right. It's really concentrated, intense flavor, a lot going on. And, you know, white wine is kind of kind of considered like, you know, for lightweight, it's a little bit. Oh, like for like if you fuck with wine, like you want the reds because there's so much to it. Okay, got you.

You know, white's fine, but then, you know, we want real flavor. You're going for red. And like the really, really, really expensive bottles are all red. Like the super, you know, like the $2,000 bottles are all red. Oh, yeah, that's true.

You never see someone like, and here's my $6,000 rosé. Correct. Something like that. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Like rosé, 20 bucks. It's maxed out.

Right. So red wine is supposed to be super great. But like, you know, like I do all, I spend all this time like tasting stuff, like drinking different things with different foods. And I'm just starting to think like, man, this red wine is kind of like overdone. It's like somebody should have taken the skins out before it got so red. It feels like a flaw. And like, you know, beer and white wine and other things, I think, go better with food.

But that's a very controversial thing to say in the snooty foodie world. Yeah, I'm sure. Because everyone's like, you got to have red meat. You got to have red wine. Exactly. And I'm always like, all right. And I tried to do that where people are like, no, it really enhances the flavor. But I'm the kind of person who does not drink liquids when they eat.

Like, I don't. I'm like an end of meal drinker. Like nothing. Not even water. I don't sip. I don't wash it down. I'm like, I'm focused on the meal. That's just how I've gotten down since the beginning of times.

But so like when people always like, you got to try that with this. I'm always like, OK. And I'm like, and then after like have this red one, I'm like, OK. I mean, it's not like doesn't put a terrible taste in my mouth, but that's also not like necessarily the culinary experience I seek all the time. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a rosé girl. And if they offered a six hundred dollar bottle of rosé, I would be the kind of person to buy it.

I'd be like, what's happening? Is it sparkly? Did they put gold in it? I wonder if that's why like everybody drinks natural wines and shit now like i feel like that's become like a real popular thing now less so than like you know drinking a full-bodied chianti or something is everyone's like oh skin contact natural wines that's what i always see yeah for sure for sure that's how that's happening and sort of it's starting to like undercut this whole like this myth that red wine the good red wines are these

super concentrated ones yeah good i'm glad to i'm i'm glad you said that wrong because whenever i taste those i'm bro what the it's hard for me to be like oh my goodness you're right is this were these like sp Spanish oak casks? Like, I can't. There's no way I could do that. Keep the Spanish oak away. Just give me a beer. Yeah.

At that point, I'm like, thank you so much. But I don't know if I can pretend along with everyone like this. What is something you think is overrated? Let's be honest. Twitter. Oh, go on. Wow. hit him with it steven what's going on over there oh you want to hear some real tea yeah between you me and the wall uh it's not looking so great over there watch by the time this comes out you might have actually killed fucking twitter i know like you're really you're really flying close to the sun right now man y'all if this Watch, by the time this comes out, you might have actually killed fucking Twitter. I know.

You're really flying close to the sun right now, man. Y'all, if this comes out Monday and you're getting the whale shit on your browser or phone, Steven, is there like a P.O. box that can send you veiled threats? No, just a tweet. Okay. There you go yeah are you are you looking at the like how are you experiencing the end of twitter or like the twitter freakouts that are happening on the platform you just like watching are you do you feel compelled to say things because when i look at twitter it reminds

me of like having senioritis in high school where i'm like yeah man a lot of these people are getting like sappy about this shit i'm ready to go you know, and I'm high every day in class because I don't give a fuck if the teachers catch me this time. But I do feel like it is sad, though, because I'm like, well, I don't want it to go away. But also, I don't have the energy to express any of it. Like my Twitter feed is, most times something happens. It is all just comedians doing their jokes about it and anything i could possibly think of to say funny somebody on the east coast yeah i said it for you four hours ago yeah yeah i'm like oh that would have been good that's me just scrolling down like oh that's funny

yeah i mean one thought i had was that's not funny one thought i had is like if it's really going down just change my avatar and just go mask off aol chat room troll like on ignorant people like when i used to have that kind of energy but i was like i don't i don't need to dabble in that but i just see so i'm an old man i'm an old man now i've learned you know it's not it's not worth it mega what what would you do with your i don't even know man i i don't know like i look at my drafts and shit i'm like wow wow times i've withheld like fucking atomic blasts on on threads and shit but it's like again i think it's mostly to do with the fact that but the the dangerous part for me was getting too caught up in like it being purely like

for my ego expression on Twitter. And I was like, yeah, I like lurking. I'll do that. Healthier for me. Very lurking. Yeah. Very lurking. What is something you think is underrated? Scheduling sex. Speaking of reaching middle age, I think we, yeah, my partner and I didn't have sex for some length of time that I guess I'm not even willing to disclose because it's so long. And we were like, you also get in your head equating it to expectations like, oh no, does that, and yet everything else in the relationship was like ideal. And it's like, what does that mean? Is the spark dead or whatever we're supposed to be or have or do? And we came to a place where, no, it's like that first initial, for us it was like two

to three years, but that phase where sex just organically happens constantly, always abates. And then there's no shame. I'm very, very busy doing a lot of shit. So I want to tell people out there, I want to spread the message that scheduled sex to keep the intimacy connection there. Super useful tool. And don't get hung up about like, what does it mean that it's scheduled? So, I mean, we're currently in disagreement about this a little bit. So we've been doing phenomenally scheduled precision sex. The train's always running on time. For some time now, it's been going great.

My partner last night was like, that is good. It's a useful tool. I think we should also start mixing in. Sometimes, what if it's a surprise or spontaneous? And my first impulse, I got to say, was I was like, nah. Like, I'll see you Sunday at 2.30 for 45 minutes of build, 12 minutes of like core work, 60 seconds to two minutes of refractory period. The drill. I am super routine based and I love it now.

But so now we're going to try and be spontaneous again, too. Have you ever tried to be spontaneous? Like it's almost antithetical. It doesn't work like that. Yeah. Yeah. But look, I like, I like fuck protocol. I love it.

Those who respect fuck protocol. You know what I mean? Like it, I think it's totally something that like even me and being a long-term relationship, like you always think about those things. You're like, well, what the momentum of like being younger and hornier with less responsibility, like is something wrong with us? And no, life is evolving. And it's also about like, you know, when you're in a relationship that's like meant to last, you look at those things and you navigate them together and you come up with things to address them.

So, yeah, rather than feeling guilty, it's like, no, you're trying to optimize things. You know, shout out protocols. Yeah, for sure. feeling guilty, it's like, no, you're trying to optimize things, you know, shut off protocols. Yeah, for sure. Again, it's the hung up on plans I made, like somewhere in the midst of puberty, when I was constantly horny, I heard people older than me saying that actually wears off. Eventually life gets in the way, like, but it's fine. And I thought, no, it's not fine. In my relationship, we will bone every day forever. Cause that's how I'll know we're so in love more than those people. But that spending a lot of time like, you know, doing bills and planning your lives together. It's an I don't know.

It's just like it becomes the momentum towards like that conversation. It can be like awkward to like skip from this like very you know normal mundane to asking to have sex and then i feel like it can be a also an awkward conversation to ask to plan it but like it's definitely worth it and also if you need help asking to plan it like there are plenty of resources out there that are like this is the cornerstone of like many healthy marriages. So just be like, I was reading this relationship book or, you know, go see a couple's therapist. Getting over that idea that it's that we, though you can't do that though, that ruins the magic. It was huge. Yeah. Way better now. The magic isn't spontaneously fucking all the time. The

magic is being connected to someone that you can communicate your needs to and navigate life together. Just get that oxytocin, however you need to. Yeah. Or, you know, or just come up with a song that when you play it,

they know what time it is. You know what I mean? Yeah, God only knows. Exactly. That French horn solo comes in, you know. You get super too messed, but you're also sobbing. It's a weird scene. It just, it just, I don't know, babe, just puts me in the right in, you know, you get super too messed, but you're also sobbing.

It's a weird thing. It just, it just, I don't know, babe, just puts me in the right space. You know, I'm thinking about how we're on this mortal plane and how I have transient

everything is, you know, while also like, you feel alive now, now, God, and God only knows that I'd be without you. I mean,

it's like, it all makes sense. All right, let's take a quick break. We'll be right back to top. To top some quop. To talk some top 27. Salp skip.

Salp. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series, Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and LA-based Shekinah Church, an alleged cult that has impacted members for over two decades. Jessica and I will delve into the hidden truths between high control groups and interview dancers,

church members, and others whose lives and careers have been impacted, just like mine. Through powerful, in-depth interviews with former members and new, chilling firsthand accounts, the series will illuminate untold and extremely necessary perspectives. Forgive Me For I Have Followed will be more than an exploration. It's a vital revelation aimed at ensuring these types of abuses never happen again. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist

who on October 16th, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. A podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere starting September 25th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. I've been thinking about you. I want you back in my life. It's too late for that. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. One session.

24 hours. BPM 110, 120. She's terrified. Should we wake her up? Absolutely not. What was that? You didn't figure it out? I think I need to hear you say it. That was live audio of a woman's nightmare.

This machine is approved and everything? You're allowed to be doing this? We passed the review board a year ago. We're not hurting people. There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When you think of Mexican culture, you think of avocado, mariachi, delicious cuisine, and of course, lucha libre. It doesn't get more Mexican than this. Lucha libre is known globally because it is much more than just a sport and much more than just entertainment.

Lucha Libre is a type of storytelling. It's a dance. It's tradition. It's culture. This is Lucha Libre Behind the Mask, a 12-episode podcast in both English and Spanish about the history and cultural richness of Lucha Libre. And I'm your host, Santos Escobar, the emperor of Lucha Libre and a WWE superstar. Santos! Santos! Join me as we learn more about the history behind this spectacular sport

from its inception in the United States to how it became a global symbol of Mexican culture. We'll learn more about some of the most iconic heroes in the ring. This is Lucha Libre Behind the Mask. Listen to Lucha Libre Behind the mask as part of my cultura podcast network on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you stream podcasts and we're back and so is same-sex marriage even interracial marriage is back in the spotlight like it never left oh i thought it's back

over here that's how i express that like i'm having marital troubles is i'm like interracial marriage guys not great i'm the poster boy that they hire i'm like i'm telling you guys you don't want to do it yeah My life is terrible because my parents are so reckless by sticking with their own. But yeah, the ever since the Senate moved the Respect for Marriage Act to a vote, like it's just been full freak outs on the right. I feel like the last 10 days or so has been just a lot of like Republicans and like people in the mainstream who are like, wait, the status quo as we saw it isn't what what's happening here? They're like utterly confused. The first guy, Brian Brown, who's like the head of this hate group, the National Organization for Marriage, is so angry about what happened. He wrote this email to like all of the people who are, you know,

supporters of this hate group. He said, quote, sadly and tragically, the United States Senate with the collusion of 12 turncoat Republican senators who betrayed their party platform and the votes of 50 million Americans who enacted state constitutional amendments defining marriage as the union of one man and one woman have voted to impose same-sex quote-unquote marriage on the nation this is a very you can use a couple m dashes but that's a run-on sentence my friend yeah well that's look when you come on when you're that mad i guess yeah yeah grammar goes out the window when you're so filled with hate. Now, this isn't the Brian Brown Australian actor who played Tom Cruise's sensei in Cocktail, right? No, I don't think it's the same. It's not the guy from FX2.

No, no, no. I thought that was Michael Caine in both of those cases. Yeah, he does look like Michael Caine. He's straight to crackle, Michael Caine in both of those cases. Yeah, he does look like he does kind of look like Michael Caine. He's straight to crackle, Michael Caine. Yeah. He's like, yeah, he's the kind of guy who ends up on Nathan for you saying he's a Michael Caine impersonator. And you're like, yeah, this guy's kind of weird. He was an Aussie, but it's all good.

That is, Stephen, like for somebody who came on and said, you're not going to get me to talk about people who might die. Wow. Taking shots.rian brown is alive if i talk about older people yeah it's like that wasn't me okay okay uh well we'll see bucks like aaron carter it's like oh yeah that's right plausible deniability great power comes great responsibility this letter on to say, this is a very disappointing development. It feels like a punch in the gut from people who regularly portray themselves as conservatives and people of faith, yet who have voted with the radical homosexual lobby and the most extreme elements of the Democrat Party. Be assured that we intend to hold them accountable. At the end, he's like, we need donations too, man. And there's like a thing at the bottom that says,

donate crypto too. Really? It says you can donate in crypto? Yeah, the sign off. It's like, donate this, donate that, and he says, donate crypto here. It's like, wow, like a scam on top of a scam? Hey, if you're embarrassed to

have the paper trail. Right. Yeah, is that the, is that, I haven't donated crypto in a long time. Like, is that who's still mainly advertising the crypto is like people being, people who are like, yeah, you'll probably be ashamed by this. I don't even know what the point of that is. I think it's just sort of like they're going all out. Also think because a lot of the thinking is, look, usually when this many people like, you know, get it to a vote, it means they got the votes to pass it for the final vote.

Unless we can get to enough people in the House of Representatives, please give me $100,000 because you hate people getting married to who they love. Anyway, then one of the like televangelist former spiritual advisor to Donald Trump has just been like, I think, just seeing everything wither away from like the abortion smackdown to the then like the Senate pushing through the Respect for Marriage Act, going just guns blazing against Donald Trump. Just saying if just everything like I think this person's had enough and said, quote, if Mr. Trump can't stop his little petty issues, how does he expect people to stop major issues? And goes on to just talk about how he acts like an elementary or elementary school child. And, you know, his focus on like these smaller issues completely betrayed like the the momentum that the evangelical movement had etc etc so you know i think it yeah they're having a little bit of a hard time and his it sort of boils down to he's just feeling like if he wasn't such a piece

of shit they would have been able to do more harm to non-cis het. Yeah. What does it take to call yourself an advisor for a president? You like a meeting, a single meeting? Yeah, that's why I like there's so many people who are. Yeah. Yeah. Like put that on their put that on their CV. It's like, what did you do next to them? Yeah.

Is there a red phone on his desk? like what a picture next to them yeah is there a red phone on his desk or i feel like it's like that lie i would hear like gen xer boomers say like in the early 2000s or they're like i used to be a roadie for this band back in the day and they'd like tell you some lie and you're like how do we like i can't even verify that and something like that guy's not a was never a fucking roadie for the or like brands who are brands who are the official yarn of nascar well they get to do that because they're the they get exclusivity as a sponsor and then they can't say yes we are the only yarn who bothered to be like we know our customers uh yarn gang loves nascar vroom vroom they love erin hart scars it's just it again the the confused it's

like a lot of confusion around what you hear these conservatives say like when it comes to what happened with people actually you know voting for increased body autonomy or the idea that like republicans were also willing to say yeah man you can get married to whoever the fuck you want it's just like the wheels are spinning in this way that they just cannot get over the idea that it's like it's it's always been a losing strategy. We've only been able to stay relevant through all the disingenuous like map fucking and things like that. So I just want to hear from Ben Shapiro. I do. And so I do, too.

Well, we got him on the line. Got him on the line. Ben Shapiro's argument, he's, like, completely incensed by this. And he's saying, like, I don't know. He's just trying to say it makes sense that only a man and a woman, a cis man and a cis woman get married to each other. Because fucking aliens can even see that or i don't hear is that is this a new one because i feel like i've heard his arguments on this subject before it's he's he's pretty in uh pretty ideologically ignorant uh and consistent with that ignorance

so yeah you probably have this is him just screaming at matt walsh who's just like yeah this recent matt walsh looks like he's wearing a fake beard so it's not the matt walsh that from ucb it's not the matt walsh from ucb although it could end up being because this person is clearly wearing a disguise okay here's here here we go i'm i'm highly annoyed by the constant derogation of non-religious arguments, interreligious arguments. And this is what the left loves to do. They like to say you're pro-life. The reason you're pro-life is because of your crazy religion. And so, yeah, right.

It's because you say it yourselves when you say why and go because the Bible. Well, huh? OK, but or I also like to, you know, appeal to white supremacy as well. The other thing that you seem to be, would you rather that, Ben? Is that because that, I do feel like the thing you're railing against is actually the polite thing

that the polite mainstream media says is like, well, it's just their religious beliefs. That's like them taking you at your word. Yeah, yeah. Being nice about it. Yeah. Maybe we can respect your crazy religion. That is not the argument for marriage. The argument for marriage has literally nothing to do with religion. You could be a visitor from Mars, and you could

see that all of human procreation relies on man, woman, child. This is not particularly difficult stuff. By essentially boxing in the argument in favor of traditional marriage into, into well if you're a crazy religious believer maybe we'll let you have that but you know if you're if you're baking it if you're a cake baker then we're not sure about that right i mean like we're not sure how far this this religious liberty thing extends what you're really doing is you're setting the ground game at same-sex marriage and traditional marriage are completely the same thing and if you object to it the only reason that we even allow you to do that is because of this crazy thing

called religion anyway good gish galp there but yeah but that's a loser you object to it, the only reason that we even allow you to do that is because of this crazy thing called religion. Anyway, good gish galp there, Ben. Yeah, yeah. But that's a loser. You have to believe they are completely the same thing in order to argue against Ben Shapiro. Yeah. They are completely the same thing. Yeah. Oh, did you see Matt Walsh freaking out because the men's the U.S. men's national team for the World Cup are like including a rain like a rainbow spectrum on the like the crest of the

men's team because cutter is so like just violently homophobic he like couldn't believe that they would do that it's like just shut up bull like you know welcome to 2022 the midterms didn't quite have me over the edge but now i think we can officially say we've won with the with the rainbows on the on the world cup i cup i think we we can just stop paying attention disaster of a world cup that's about to call it a dub it's a w you guys lost they yeah i saw that target had dog toys that said yes queen like two years ago and i was like oh yeah i can tune out that was the tip of the spear steven that was the tip of the spear but we're it's been a systematic movement to get to this point where the rainbows

are on the uniforms yeah it's just it we're it's like this whole week has just been people in like their insulated echo chambers like actually being confronted with what like like uh majorities look like and they're like what the fuck like whether that's like elon musk not knowing how any of this shit works or these people like the fuck is but i thought i thought y'all wanted the blue check i thought the thing was you saw the blue check as being like a college degree and if i democratize that then you it would all be great and they're like, you're just all the people that you that are like your suck ups just hate people like really just hate the journalists that have blue check marks, like rather than the like practice of having verified accounts. You haven't heard from a person giving you objective facts in the past, I don't know, 15 years or since your dad said he didn't love you or something right yeah that was the last objective truth because you're a bad kid man like yeah because

you're gross you're just like a bad gross person you're bad yeah you are bad that but that thing that tells you that at the core of your soul it makes you be this way is actually correct but that's the one kind of locus of truth that you have inside your whole being but the the other thing that he got big wrong this week was or last week was when he was like ultimatum put up or shut up if you're not on board with me then you're out my way or the highway by tomorrow and then like as it was coming and nobody had signed on with this thing he was like oh i mean my bad my bad uh actually everybody just resigned yeah and now he's like uh come by twitter to like tell me about code you wrote like it'd be great if you could fly in

obviously if you can't you can zoom i don't don't know if I'm going to cover those costs, but get your ass in here. I don't know if I'm going to cover those costs. Okay. Of course not. Cool. Yeah, it's big bad. Well, on the subject of just complete and total victory in the world of culture,

and our long-term strategy to just make it so nobody can be a Christian ever again. And that Christmas is a word that you can't even say punishable by death. Candace Cameron Burr made headlines all over the world for being an asshole. Oh, okay. So this, I hadn't really thought about her for a long time because my therapist told me to stop doing that. They were like, you got to stop, man. Your therapist, Jodi Sweetin. Yeah.

I didn't. So she's Kirk Cameron's sister. Is that what that like made sense of the story? You didn't know that? No, I just had forgotten it. Like, I remembered it back then. But like, as this came up and I was like, wait, oh, right. She's part of that whole thing.

They're the straight-to-crackle Jason and Justine Bateman. Yeah, exactly. So she used to star in lots of Hallmark Channel holiday movies, but left to star in movies for the newer conservative Christian network, Great American Family. Mm-hmm. your conservative Christian network, great American family. And she brought two of her full house stars with her, including aunt Becky herself,

Lori Loughlin. And so this is, this is a big deal. You know, she's, she, she's a soldier in the culture, culture war.

She's, she's ready to put her life and career on the line by taking a huge payday. Thank you for your service. Thank you for your service thank you for your service ma'am but great american family describes itself as a channel celebrating faith family and country and is owned by a company started by bill abbott who was the guy who was running hallmark when they refused to run an ad on their network that had a same-sex marriage in it so oh okay yeah yeah oh this is probably the era when you couldn't have magic in hallmark films that probably lines up with

this guy's philosophy okay yeah so hallmark have made efforts to diversify their christmas movies with several movies featuring gay couples in recent years and candace cameron's comments were condemned by everyone from glad to stephanie tanner herself jody sweeten your therapist yeah my therapist stephanie tanner good for her honestly yeah i was like i assumed she was one of the ones that they brought over but it seems like she she's come come around you know know? Yeah. She did not say how rude because that wasn't her line. Right. Not even when the car that was 100 percent her life.

That was how rude. OK. Oh, yeah. I thought I picture one of the Olsen twins saying, no, that's you got it. She said, you got it, dude. You got it, dude. Or you got it. You're in big trouble, mister.

Yeah. Yeah. Or it takes two. Right. Stop. Stop. Don't talk about the Olsen twins. I went takes two. Right. Stop. Stop. Don't talk about the Olsen twins.

I went to school with them. And I went to a dance with one of them one year. We got one. It's fine. That was a huge deal. When I when I was like in college and I guess you were in high school, I visited my friends in L.A. and they were like going to a party that one of the Olsen twins were at. And it was like a big deal to everyone. They're like, oh, my God, the Olsen twins.

So you must have been Mr. King shit, man. Going to a dance with one of the Olsen twins. I don't know. I think I was just like a cool boy of color at the school and, you know, just made them look cool. I don't know. You know, that's my own self-worth. I'm working through a therapy. Why did why did they come with cool. I don't know. You know, that's my own self-worth. I'm working through a therapy. Why did, why did they come with me?

I don't know. I don't know. I think about a party, a party with the Ulsa twins. In my head, I'm like, oh, the Met Gala. Like, that would be pretty cool shit. Or it's like when, it's like a party, like you've never fucking experienced and you don't know if it's like fun

or totally weird and boring when you go. Eyes Wide Shut was a documentary? It's like everyone's wearing newspaper masks and humming this one melody. Like, huh? But yeah, so she issued a non-apology blaming the press and painting herself as the victim of a toxic media system which falsely sought to sow division by reprinting the thing she said, which I

let me, did I read her quote? Let me make sure I have it. Okay. So she came under fire because in an interview in the Wall Street Journal, she said that gaffes, Christmas content, would only feature traditional marriage. The traditional family, of course.

Yes. The traditional family, of course, being three kids, one dad, his former college roommate, plus his dead wife's drum playing brother and his entire family all crammed into an attic, I think. Right. And a dog sometimes. into an attic i think right and a dog sometimes and i don't know if you saw the thing there was this video that was kind of blown up on the internet about how there's this big plot hole in full house where uncle jesse talks about dropping out of high school but then he said he didn't like in later episodes and this guy like his mind was blown and for 16 years he was trying to contact the writers of full house to be like you know like you said he dropped out of high

school in season two, right? And like, it's like a really interesting video, but they know. The guys, Uncle Jesse's a fucking liar too. Also, you can drop out of high school and go on to go to college. Yeah. Also, Uncle Jesse seems like the type of person that he

could have like been valedictorian, but wouldn't tell anybody because that would undercover smart guy. Yeah. I didn't want to fuck up. Yeah. Yeah. Cause he's got this persona that he's got.

He went to MIT dude. He's like the guy from the offspring. He's really smart. Yeah. But anyways, like that, you know, this shouldn't be that surprising.

The act of making a bigoted Christmas movie should be the Cameron family crest at this point. But you know, this shouldn't be that surprising. The act of making a bigoted Christmas movie should be the Cameron family crest at this point. But, you know, she once defended the Oregon bakery that illegally refused to bake a wedding cake for a lesbian couple. So, yeah, she's not she's not for the rights of very many people or she's for the rights of a very specific group of people. Very many people or she's for the rights of a very specific group of people. Yeah. Yeah. One hundred percent. And she's also just, you know, with that, that whole family is, you know, all in on homophobia, especially her brother. So the Tanner's. Yeah. The whole family has really gone to shit.

Oh, Candace. But again, it's like there was another one where she'd like posted a thing or like on TikTok where she's like, am I the villain here? Like kind of like trying to like troll people about like what her bigoted stance was. But it's like you're I don't know. She's she's she's only relevant in that she was in a seminal show for a lot of people's childhoods. Other than that, it's not like you're talking about like a real mover and shaker. So it's like, I don't know, Miles, her acting talent is undeniable. I think it's undeniably awful.

Yes. Yeah. Talk about her personal life all you want. But for me, game recognized game. And I can't. She was the weak point in a cast that was not was not full of, you know know the world's greatest actors somehow two of the cast members that were incoherent babies ended up becoming the bigger stars on that show yeah and were much more talented and gave more convincing performances better fashion sense too you know way cooler

when looking or when way cooler looking when they smoke cigarettes at a young age and in case it's not clear to you what safe means in this case, last year, like their definition of what safe and traditional family, last year, they made 12 Christmas movies. Gaff, is that what it is? Great American Family. All but one centered on straight white characters.

Wow. The other was a white savior story. And one of the companies, companies bankrolling the channel belongs to a republican national committee co-chairman and donald trump junior's fan although that could be said about probably every company in the country yeah it's all check out warner discovery plus you know you're gonna get some interesting stuff. I think they even have a talking point about like these are safe movies that value, quote, American culture and quote, heritage. So heritage is one of those words that it's like, oh, you're like you're trying to disguise it, but really not not much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Our heritage as violent colonizers.

Our heritage of putting the Confederate flag on the orange Dukes of Hazzard car. Yes. Hey, hey, we're not going to slander that beautiful vehicle on this show. American culture, heritage, and lifestyle. Like those are... Mmm.

Mmm. My favorite ingredients on my way to fascism. Yum-y. All right, let's take a quick break. And we're going to come back and talk about effective altruism. What could be wrong with that? I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series, Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult.

And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and LA-based Shekinah Church, an alleged cult that has impacted members for over two decades. Jessica and I will delve into the hidden truths between high control groups and interview dancers, church members, and others whose lives and careers have been impacted, just like mine. Through powerful, in-depth interviews with former members and new, chilling firsthand accounts, the series will illuminate untold and extremely necessary perspectives. Forgive Me For I Have Followed will be more than an exploration. It's a vital revelation aimed at ensuring these types of abuses never happen again.

Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price.

Listen to Crooks Everywhere starting September 25th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I've been thinking about you. I want you back in my life. It's too late for that. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. One session.

24 hours. BPM 110. 120. She's terrified. Should we wake her up? Absolutely not. What was that? You didn't figure it out?

I think I need to hear you say it. That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. This machine is approved and everything? You're allowed to be doing this? We passed the review board a year ago. We're not hurting people. There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm.

Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When you think of Mexican culture, you think of avocado, mariachi, delicious cuisine, and of course, lucha libre. It doesn't get more Mexican than this. Lucha libre is known globally because it is much more than just a sport and much more than just entertainment. Lucha libre is a type of storytelling. It's a dance. It's tradition. It's culture. This is Lucha Libre Behind the Mask,

a 12-episode podcast in both English and Spanish about the history and cultural richness of Lucha Libre. And I'm your host, Santos Escobar, the emperor of Lucha Libre and a WWE superstar. Santos! Santos! Join me as we learn more about the history behind this spectacular sport from its inception in the United States

to how it became a global symbol of Mexican culture. We'll learn more about some of the most iconic heroes in the ring. This is Lucha Libre Behind the Mask. Listen to Lucha Libre Behind the Mask as part of My Cultura Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you stream podcasts. And we're back. Last week, there was this like a few write-ups I saw about something called the Modern Day Knight, K-N-I-G-H-T project. And I was like, what is going on?

We asked JM, our writer, to do a little digging on this phenomenon and it turns out it's a real thing. And if you loved summer camp, but you A, wished it had more guns and endurance tests and B, you're currently a sad adult man, we've got great news. You can sign up for this project or this weird camp. And while you'd think a modern

day night would presumably just spend their time chilling out with Michael Caine and Andrew Lloyd Webber in a castle somewhere, these guys are basically just in a boot camp, like a $12,000 boot camp. And the website, if you go to the website, what they're saying, it's designed for men who are quote, living in unfulfilled life of passivity and frustration or what they call, but clearly are like unable to trademark, quote, the walking dead. He said, in simple terms, most men surrender to circumstances and accept mediocrity. So they're trying to get you in your like masculine grind mindset. And the introduction also includes passages about what it means to be a man, like in bold letters says, what does it mean to be a man? And apparently it means being one type

of primate rather than a different kind. They said they don't need to look any further than nature because nature never lies. The picture of the left depicts a chimpanzee and a bonobo ape on the right. And the chimpanzee is like showing its fangs and like snarling and teeth gnashing. The bonobo is like, just like, hey, I'm just chilling. And it says, when you understand the difference between these two creatures, you'll know why some men can walk into a room and instantly command presence and respect. The way of the chimp is based on strength, courage, honor, and brotherhood. The way of the bonobo is based on weakness, pleasure,

full-time relaxation, and fun. I'm sorry, but... Don't relax or have fun, y'all, or you'll not be a man. Bonobos have a ton of sex, too. That's like... They're tapping into a very specific type of man that

the internet type of man who doesn't want a lot of sex apparently well i think it makes sense i mean maybe yes but also the guys who feel that they are like what's the the term they use involuntarily celibate oh incel yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and i think and especially because some of those guys seem very hard up to be like to have their manhood defined and outlined for them in a way that is then not questionable and doing something like this where like no i was with guides and wilderness so you never tell me i wasn't masculine or that i didn't have the answers i took leadership courses i also got like a lot of i used to work for um all the names are escaping me today guys i'm so sorry they're like life

coaches but their brand is not based on anything of event tearing you down in subtle ways like the writing of yeah well like the writing is will be like this doesn't it suck that no one loves you and don't you wish your body was a little bit better so you can be more confident when you talk to people oh right you don't have those skills but i definitely do so you know make sure like they just constantly are like reminding people of any possible insecurity so that by the time you're finished reading their letter you feel like you need help right that's definitely like reading on the website here's a okay if you've made it this far down this page then i can already tell that you're not like most men who know they're meant for more but allow fear and poor discipline to stifle their

personal development income and impact that's key freezing to just like trigger a person with low self-esteem into purchasing whatever the package is. And it's really horrifying that copy can do that. It's very successful. Yeah. The power of copy and also the power of the chimp, too. Let's not forget courage and honor are foundational to the chimpanzee, not randomly biting off the face of your like human owner. Like that's when I see chimpanzees in the fucking news it

doesn't sound very honorable or brotherhood but again they're wild animals and that's why you shouldn't keep them as pets the pictures are so upsetting like it's a bunch of men in the water and white t-shirts they're kind of dirty they all look very tired and hungry yeah it's like a cross between a baptism and like a trial by fire. Yeah. Exactly. Baptism by fire. You got it right there, Joel.

The founder of this is some guy named Bedros Kulian. And he wrote the he's got a YouTube channel and he's got a book called Man Up. And, you know, his YouTube channel, he's got stuff like this guy's tatted. He's like just ripped, like bearded Gen Xer dude. And it's like the just the card says cancel culture. OK, yeah, I'm sure there's some really interesting takes on there. And he like, you know, this whole thing conclusively proves why toxic masculinity isn't a thing using graphics borrowed from a mid 90s karaoke video. Because there are these like videos that like in impact font look i love it i

loved impact font too when i first discovered fonts as a child but this the style guide is terrible here and there's like there's just like these in these videos that stuff is no such thing as toxic masculinity like played over very just you know mundane b-roll type of stuff but again according to this guy his goal is to present men with a crossroads and it's either stay a bitch or become a beast in his words which is also incidentally the same crossroads presented to the prince in beauty and the beast but one of the project's head instructors steve eckert he's like saying you're not allowed to be a man anymore you're almost a racist if you're a man these days it's crazy oh you're confused you haven't been understanding the message oh no that's such a weird thing to say like you couldn't write better comedy than

that where someone's like you're almost a racist if you're a man these days what do you what what do you what are you describing in their whiteness based off of all of the uh if you go to the video section you they have testimonials yeah and it's looking very white in there i'm not seeing anybody else joelle again you know i i i don't want to be regressive here but this isn't for you okay it's for bros it's for bros with twelve thousand dollars to pay not including flights or accommodation so they can get not accommodations at twelve thousand no that's just to be yelled at and play with guns and get told you're a pussy by some fucking ripped guy. And then I think you come out the other

side better. Pay a dominatrix. It's money better spent and they're probably not going to call you $12,000. For 12 grand, you could build a pretty good dungeon. 100%. Explicitly, this whole thing, there's a lot of militarized stuff.

Sure. Because what deep-rooted psychological problem hasn't been solved by a handgun? I think it's a very, very good combination that they have going there. And the beginning of this quote-unquote project starts with people being thrown into a car with bags over their heads. Like the recruiting scene in old school. They're getting their fraternity together, just snatching people off the street and then they have to do a lot of physical challenges and there was like apparently someone this isn't confirmed but like someone in like a reddit post was talking about like a guy who did it and said that they were they were buried

alive in body bags for a little bit too all on their way to on par with what's been happening because like okay so now it's so interesting okay so it's like not just that like motivational speaker kind of like but it's also a little bit of like christian church camp if you've ever had to go through that it's also a little bit i forget what they're called but like basically it's traumatized like bit i forget what they're called but like basically it's traumatized like an entire generation of teenagers whose parents would like pay to have them kidnapped and called like those like troubled teen camps yes that was actually turned out to be like weird worker camps where kids were being like sexually assaulted but also yeah worked to the

point of exhaustion sometimes death where girls were were forced to take their pregnancy to term and forced into long-term isolation spaces, horrible spaces. But again, I think it feeds into this idea for a certain kind of guy who thinks the only way to prove that I am a man is by going through the most amount of hardship as possible. And because I wasn't fortunate enough, quotes, to go through any misfortune previously, I have to manufacture it later in life to prove a point. It's very weird. Well, it's to wake up my weakness inside of me.

Well, that's why I'm going. And that's why Jack is there today. I didn't want to reveal that on the show. That's why Jack's out. He's still... Someone extract Jack immediately. He's not built for this. Ever since someone said he didn't know how to pose with his hands in a photograph,

he's really been grappling with that. He's like, what if I had guns in my hands and wood? Thoughts and prayers to him. He'll come back with a great assessment of that. Just to everybody out there, you don't need to pay twelve thousand dollars to to find out you're you got a lot of just therapy is cheaper i'm gonna be honest twelve thousand dollars worth

that therapy shit you're gonna be good after that yeah real straight tell you who will be able to look somebody in the eye during a conversation and it won't be because someone hits you with a two by four on your back while you're doing pushups. Oh my God. Buried alive. Rowan, is there any part of this experience that appeals to you in any way, shape or form? Yeah, this sounds very Vermont man to me. Well, I'm hoping there's other options besides bitch or beast. Like is there like a middle option?

But I'm also thinking about this. Like I just saw this video on Twitter, of course, of these dudes jousting each other on like, you know, they had like real lances, but on bicycles. And, you know, the lances had like a, you know, almost like a boxing glove thing on the end. So they wouldn't actually like kill each other. But like charging each other on bicycle and jousting.

I'm wondering if this is part of being a modern knight or if this is totally separate. It sounds like it would go right into the curriculum. No problem. If anything, those guys jousting, I feel like that's like hardcore LARPing. At least you're like, you're doing the fucking thing.

You'd have a Nerf sword. It'd be very bendy. Nobody's getting hurt at a proper LARPing session. My dad, in the 90s in new york his friend used to do these like weird like fight club things in new york where people would make their own armor with like parking cones and shit and they just fucking get down and parks like washington square park and shit what yeah and like it was more like a foreign to me i don't understand this at all yeah i mean i think there's just this like weird, bizarre trying to capture what they believe

is quote unquote, like masculinity. And I think for a lot of like men, they like maybe like hold their grandfathers in high regard too. And are like, yeah, that guy who was in a war who didn't cry, but also like gave my dad a lot of weird issues because the way he raised him, that's an entire family across state lines and never communicated with his children. Great example. That dude was a beast.

Yeah. He was out in the field working every day. He was exhausted. He broke his body and there was no one able to fix it. Like you don't want to be that guy. You're so lucky. I don't want to be no pussy. I want to be a beast. You're so lucky. I don't want to be no pussy. I want to be a beast.

Pussy is great. Whose big empty house with his creepy candelabra and teapot that talk to me. Or that's Beauty and the Beast. I forget. Anyway, Rowan, I got to ask you. I want to talk a little bit about food because that is your area of expertise and your new podcast about chocolate. Because right now we have thanksgiving upon us i have many questions like first off is there a perfect thanksgiving food

before we get into the podcast just want to kick that off from there is there a perfect thanksgiving food in your opinion you know i'm gonna i'm gonna throw uh throw a sort of one actually from left field well i actually think that the thing that should start off every Thanksgiving meal is oysters. Oh? Go on. Are you guys... I love oysters. Yeah?

Oh, yeah. I've never had an oyster. Oysters are a deal breaker for some people. I've never had an oyster. You're on. Yeah. Do you like... I like the little slime.

I love the brine, too. When it's briny, it's my favorite.'m i like the little slime i love the brine too when it's briny it's my favorite tastes like exactly exactly yeah actually a box of oysters just arrived to my house like an hour ago for thanksgiving that thanksgiving is when they're at their best oh really yeah yeah then people don't realize this but oysters have a whole like seasonal thing because their lifestyle so when the water gets cold, they start to get... They kind of go into hibernation in winter, just like little tiny bears. And just like little tiny bears,

they plump themselves up to survive that hibernation period. So when things get cold in the fall, they start eating like crazy and fattening themselves up. So around Thanksgiving through New new year's they are at their like peak of deliciousness i had no idea yeah i had no idea a whole new world wait so why start off with oysters i mean like i don't i'm not like is there some experiential science to

that or why why do you why do you say that is the perfect opener well they don't really fill you up in any way you know like there's nothing they're kind of like living salt water in a sense so yeah it's just like you got a quick hit of of salty oceany deliciousness and then they're gone and so you're not like you're not ruining the the 25 courses to come right oh man now i'm now i got a goal of course you don't drink anything with your meat so they're really salty so i don't know you kind of have to have i mean i'll have something after but i'm never gonna be like oh okay first drink the liquor out of the out of the shell then have a sip then eat the oyster menon yeah i'll i'll have something after i'll have no you gotta have the liquor sure yeah and joel what aboutelle, what about you? Is there perfect Thanksgiving food?

Yes. I'm stealing my answer from Samin Nostrad, who said that cranberries, because they're the only acidity on the table, and they cut through everything. Wow. Like if you don't have cranberry sauce, it's not Thanksgiving to me. And I'm a jellied can girl yeah i like it real basic my dad likes it because you can slice along the ridges so it's like perfect portions of it i love cranberry sauce i was just saying yesterday i can't do

cranberry sauce i just why i just don't there i have it. My palate is not all. It's not attuned for that burst of cranberry on my Thanksgiving plate. I just I know why it's there. But I just prefer I I don't indulge. I like to keep it pretty straightforward. Have you have you tried all the versions? There's so many versions. I have.

We're talking about compotes. We're talking about. Yeah, I've tried. Look, I always try. It's like candy corn. I'm like yeah this year is the year and then no i don't want this how could you talk about cranberries and candy corn in the same sentence this is blasphemy i'm just saying it's like a thing that i always

feel like this will be the year that i open up to and then i realize i just need to accept that it might not be for me okay you know that's it that's your truth it It's wrong, but I understand it. Okay. What about favorite dessert for Thanksgiving? Go. Joelle. Oh, crap. Probably a chocolate pecan pie is ideal for me. I don't like a pumpkin pie. I need my gourds cooked in breads.

Or roasted, like fire roasted where they're like almost caramelized. Right. But a chocolate pecan pie, especially if you can get one from like a south carolina georgia texas area forget about it it's sensational actually connecticut has really good one too i'm glad you brought up i'm glad you brought up chocolate because roman my man obsessions wild chocolate is podcast. And there's chocolate is something I love to eat. And every time I see it, like harvested, I'm like, that's fucking chocolate. How that how that turned to chocolate. Can you tell us a little bit about like your your podcast and like, you know, just give us a little bit of an education like you did on red wine and oysters. you know just give us a little bit of an education like you did on red wine and oysters so you're right like yeah like so chocolate is made from the seeds of this tree that grows in in the tropics called a cacao tree and you open up these pods and it's just it looks like this white slimy maggoty pulp and you're like that's definitely not chocolate so it has to go through

this whole process where they they scoop out the pulp and the seeds and ferment it So it has to go through this whole process where they scoop out the pulp and the seeds and ferment it. Oh, it has to be fermented? Yeah, it has to be fermented or it never tastes like chocolate. And that's the part that sometimes gets skipped in crappy chocolate. But anyway, so they do that and then you dry it and then you have to roast it and then it starts

to look almost like almonds, like these brown beans. And then those get ground and mixed with sugar to make chocolate. Man, okay, so beans. And then those get ground and mixed with sugar to make chocolate. Man, okay. So I had no idea it had to be fermented. Note to self, that's why I'll never be able to make it. And it smells almost like chocolate wine

when it's fermenting. Like you walk through an area where it's all being heaped up and fermented and it's like, it feels alcoholic almost. Okay, I like that. Like what, you know, what is it about chocolate that makes it, it's like one of these like coveted things throughout history, you know, and even now like we, like it's one of Joelle's favorite desserts,

like certainly my favorite kind of ice cream. And if anything has chocolate, I'm like, yes, that. Like oysters, I guess people say it's an aphrodisiac, but I don't know if that's what the science is behind that. But what is it like, you know, like why is it, why is it so powerful in your estimation, like in looking at how so many people like fight over it and it's like this just gigantic industry.

And that's one thing that we keep trying to explore in the podcast is what why do people go crazy for the stuff why do they go to such great lengths for it and part of it is it's actually a pretty good recreational substance it's got a bunch of different psychoactive compounds in it so they're not like they're not going to hit you over the head like uh like ayahuasca or anything right but it's got a lot of compounds in it that make you feel good, you know, that get the dopamine going. So, and that's why, you know, the Maya, the Aztec, it was, chocolate was like the heart of their rituals. Like all their ceremonies, they would be, they always did it as a drink, like basically like a hot chocolate, really thick hot chocolate.

And that was like their thing that they worshipped with because it made you feel really good. So it's got, it's got it's got some cannabinoids in it it's got some things that sort of get your heart going a little bit but then it's got other stuff that just you know science-wise no one really knows why but it it you come away feeling like yeah about the universe no i i'm sure anybody who likes chocolate can think of a time they've they had a chocolate that they tried for the first time that was so good. And like, like you get a wave fucking washes over you. I don't know if I'm being hyperbolic, but sometimes I have that sensation, like something really rich, like chocolate. I'm like, I feel like I'm going to hyperspace on the Millennium falcon shit like lines and i'm like oh me too me too no idea in fact i can't do it late at night or like i'm in hyperspace and not sleeping you know oh luckily i don't have that issue i could i could eat oh yeah i can drink espresso in bed and i'll be fine

but i oh wow it's just not a good idea to just eat chocolate in bed anyway uh my wife doesn't like that but joel are you when i saw your face going in all kinds of places when you're talking about all the psychoactive chemicals no because i believe it i believe it like my mom growing up she loved it like a dove chocolate so she would like have them in the kitchen little things and then they were like perfect little bite-sized like pick-me-ups you know right i think every major celebration in my life has had some form of chocolate nearby it you know whether it's like a birthday cake or you know an ice cream after like an epic fail um it's always it's like a i don't know i think chocolate especially as an american

i'm not sure like globally what it's like. But as an American, there's always some chocolate nearby if you need to pick me up or if you need to celebrate. Or if you need a random gift to hand off because you're seeing somebody randomly. Like it's just it's available to us at all times in every ways. And I'm grateful for it. Right. And that even like to your point, Rowan, it feels like that's like it's weird that even a box of chocolate, like you're like, thank you for this gift. You know what I mean? Because any other like sweet, like quote unquote candy, someone might be a little bit like, oh, this doesn't quite rise to the occasion.

But chocolate, like we still like we hold it like it's still sacred on some level. Especially if you get like one of the fancy boxes. Not to be this person, but I'm going to name drop a little bit. Zooey Deschanel, when we launched her podcast, sent us chocolates.

And I was like, oh, okay, that's kind of cute. But then I had them and I was like, oh, this is Zooey Deschanel level chocolates. Yeah.

You're like, I can eat three of these a year. Wow. Next level. You do notice that, totally. With like the really good stuff, yeah,

the next level stuff, it's like you get more of that hit, like right slightly drug like hit but it's not too much drug like that's what that's what's so good about it you know like a little chocolate mid-morning and it's it's just oh yeah pick me up wait okay so explain this because there's levels to everything and like rowan i i know you just said oh yeah the good stuff what are like i know like your latest episode is talking about like like big chocolate you know yeah like and yeah the bad guys those are the bad guys yeah so first off what's the difference between like a regular chocolate that we're like oh yeah that's good and one that like you're like this is the this like what are the absolute heights of chocolatedom that I'm not aware of?

Or, like, I want to be aware of? Yeah. So, it kind of goes back to that, partly to that fermentation thing. So, chocolate, it's a huge industry. It's like a multi-billion, $100 billion industry, 5 million tons of cacao grown every year, mostly in Africa. And there's some real issues with forced labor there. Like there's a lot of child labor involved. And the chocolate companies have had for like 20 years,

people have been after them saying, y'all got to figure this out, you know? And the prices they pay are really low. And that's why there ends up being this like child labor because the farmers in Africa end up using children because they're being paid so little for their cacao. And they also aren't paid enough to do all these quality steps that they need to do. But the chocolate

companies, the big chocolate companies, they haven't really gone out of their way to try to fix that because they want to keep the prices low. They don't say that, but it's pretty clear. But then, so chocolate originated in the Amazon, in the Americas, and there's still like these old varieties there that have amazing flavor, usually just grown in these like tiny farms

in Latin America that have kind of been forgotten about by the industry. And that, and they are often going to all these steps to ferment it really well

to draw out those amazing flavors and those drug-like effects. It's more expensive, but, and they're also not using slave labor right so the the there's a shift now there's a like people are really pushing to like try to embrace these these more equitable more sustainable forms of chocolate production yeah coming from the americas and also to have that happen more in west africa as well right so that's the difference it's i it's like it's funny every industry is always like yeah

and the conditions are so bad for the workers because of cost cutting measures and like yeah it's like exactly what it is in chocolate if if the like if you know farmers in like west africa were paying workers an equitable wage how much do you think chocolate would actually cost? Like what kind of like what's the cost thing? The savings that the like big chocolate companies are so like, oh, man, it's the difference between a five dollar and a fucking sixty dollar thing. Or like what? How much is the difference? It's not it's the difference between like a two dollar Hershey bar and a three dollar Hershey bar. It's the difference between like a $2 Hershey bar and a $3 Hershey bar.

And yeah, like, so the, the governments in like Ivory Coast and Ghana have like, they just put a premium on their, their chocolate, right. Their cacao. They're like,

all right, we're going to charge you an extra 400 bucks a ton so that all the farmers can have a livable wage. And Hershey immediately like went around that and bought like, I forget, 30,000 tons of cacao on the futures market at a lower price to get around having to pay that void premium. So the big guys have been trying to avoid higher prices at all costs. And they won't be able to for long. But yeah, it's not that much different. It's like yeah

everything would be a little more expensive that's that's so wild and fucking hershey huh i mean it's like it's again it's one of these things too you always see about like fair trade there's like every year there's a new fair trade thing you know because right like our consciousness is now realizing oh yeah like we got to look at our coffee, like harvesting practices and you're like at this harvesting practice. And now with chocolate, is it like, so it is a burgeoning movement. Like it can wear, cause I want to be able to now say, I want this kind of chocolate because my man Rowan just put me on what is like, what's, what's, what's like the Rolls Royce of chocolates that we can put some of our listeners onto for those who participate in the chocolate indulging experience. All right. So the real Rolls Royce for me right now is a

woman I focus on the podcast named Louisa Abram. She's a Brazilian woman. She came out of, she quit culinary school like 10 years ago when she was in her mid twenties and decided she just wanted to make chocolate out of the wild cacao growing in the Amazon. So she's been partnering with these different indigenous groups in different parts of the Amazon to make a chocolate with each of their cacaos and basically to funnel that money back into their community. Basically, it's a way of, because chocolate, it grows as an understory in the rainforest in the Amazon. It's a little tree. So if you harvest the chocolate, you don't have to touch the forest. So you can sort of keep, it's a way of creating, making money while keeping the forest alive. So she's partnering with these different groups in the Amazon to do that.

And also each one of those cacaos has a totally different flavor to it. Right. So you can kind of like taste all these different flavors of the of the rainforest through your chocolates and those are properly fermented too right and beautifully fermented that's one thing she does and i was with her like we you go to these areas middle nowhere you know you're like sleeping in a hammock and trying not to get eaten by a crocodile and you're teaching these workshops about how to ferment the beans to make really good chocolate. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Well, see, now I'm armed with some good conversation for Thanksgiving. Can you drop the name again for this? Louisa Abram.

L-U-I-S-A. A-B-R-A-M. And she has an awesome Instagram account with amazing images of what she's doing. That's a good place for everyone to start. Okay. Fantastic. All right. That's going to do it for this week's weekly zeitgeist.

Please like, and review the show. If you like the show, uh, means the world to miles. He, he needs your validation folks. Uh,

I hope you're having a great weekend and I will talk to you Monday. Bye. Thank you. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series, Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and Shekinah Church. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadson. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour.

If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry. Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for

you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. What was that? That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. Can Kay trust her sister or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.