The Daily Zeitgeist - Weekly Zeitgeist 298 (Best of 10/30/23-11/3/23)

Episode Date: November 5, 2023

The weekly round-up of the best moments from DZ's season 311 (10/30/23-11/3/23)See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me for I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and Shekinah Church. Listen to Forgive Me for I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Keri Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese.

Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have

changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hey, I'm Gianna Pardenti

and I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation,

then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, the internet, and welcome to this episode of the weekly Zeitgeist. These are some of our favorite segments from this week, all edited together into one nonstop infotainment laughstravaganza. Yeah. So without further ado, here is the weekly zeitgeist. Miles, we are thrilled to be joined in our third seat by a senior reporter covering racial equity at the Center for Public Integrity. She's been a Fulbright Fellow, a Fellow with the International Women's Media Foundation, an Innovations in Food and Agriculture Fellow with the National Press Foundation, and she's the host of the third season of The Heist, which is incredible.

It focuses on the long documented history of government discrimination against Black farmers. Please welcome to the show, April Simpson! April! Welcome, April. Welcome. Thanks. I'm really glad to be here. Happy Halloween.

Happy Halloween. Do you celebrate? I don't, but I have a daughter now, and he will be. Oh, okay. Congratulations. How old? Thanks. Six months. Oh. Congratulations. How old? Six months. Okay. So I have a nine month old and we're doing the same thing. And part the whole time I was really conflicted about costumes because I'm like, this child is not selecting this costume and we're now reducing it to a live action doll. But, but I mean, if seeing him a woody costume didn't bring a tear to my eye

wow yeah that was the one that was very flammable by the way that i was woody okay dude this woody costume it was that was the one that was like reeking of like petroleum i'm pretty sure it's like the most synthetic fabrics that have ever been made so yeah so how is your daughter liking the first well first congrats to you too oh thank you thank you i think he's gonna love it he's gonna be a butterfly wow that could be fun yeah but i think you know babies bring so much joy to other people so that's kind of the fun of it too yeah that is true because there's no one sees a cute baby dressed up and goes like that's so trite like you know a nice try yeah what a contrived outfit this is it's just it's always like oh like i remember i went somewhere else and someone was like there's

a baby here dressed like toy story i guess yeah we'll take that. Oh, that's so cute. Amazing. Those sound amazing. Congratulations to you both. And congratulations to every living human with a beating heart that runs into you on Halloween and gets to see your gorgeous children in their amazing Halloween costumes. Absolutely. Thank you. What is something from your search history? Math jokes. Math jokes. It looks? Math jokes. Math jokes.

I looked up math jokes. What's a math joke? Hit me with one. Okay. The I says to the pie, be rational. Y says to the pie, be rational.

And the pie says back, get real. This is rational numbers. Oh, come on. You know, the imaginary number I. Okay. I'm. Ha ha ha ha.

Love that math joke. There's one of the. Okay. Sammy O'Bain has better math jokes than the ones i found on the internet but i was looking up math joke cartoons wait wait what got you on to math jokes somebody told me that they don't like comedy they just like math what yeah it was like some guy was like nagging me in the grocery store line. I don't know why.

Wait, what? Were you doing like a type five about grocery lines or something? I mean, okay, let's be real. I'm an out of commission comedian right now. Right, right, right. I'm not performing right now, which means that I'm performing everywhere. Everywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get that. Like, get like i'm sorry world that's just what happens that was just trying

jokes out on everybody wait so you you ask someone randomly in line you like hey like you want to hear a joke basically basically that's what i'm doing now i just like i say a dumb funny thing like oh guess this line's gonna just keep going and i don't get that a geometry is that a geometry joke no it gets there you know like so then they just like keep at it you know just double down like it's just a wrap wrapping around corners all the corners so i'm sure there's a math joke to plug in here. The guy was so rude. The lines do famously keep going.

In geometry, they just keep going and going. And pi goes and goes forever. And the guy was like, I like math just not jokes. And I was like, what the fuck are you talking about, man? What the fuck? I don't know if that's a person you know they were just the person like right in front of you yeah is he telling me to stop making nice

i just don't i love that binary though it's math or humor pick one it's like i i don't know but i guess why wasn't the geometry teacher at school because she sprained her angle if you like that you like that guy and he's like crying it's so he's like holy fuck ah you write that you write that this moment has changed me right right right i love it i like math okay thank you was he like was he my seven year old son that's like the sort of thing my seven-year-old son would say to me. I try to make him laugh. He's like, I like math, Dad. Okay?

That's kind of fucked up. That's actually probably the most scathing response you could give, where you're like, honestly, I like math better than whatever the fuck this is. I know! Yeah. I was like, math? Come on, man! I've had a baby.

I'm struggling. Please, man. I haven't gone up in like months. Let me warm up a little. Then you just burst into tears. And he's like, fuck, fuck. I'm sorry, okay? I didn't know.

What the fuck? That's when I dropped the forklift on him. Yeah, exactly. Hey, Blake. Why don't you tell us something that you think is overrated? Yeah, tough guy. I had here written down the heat, and I'm like, are we talking about Pat Riley? But of course not.

I'm talking about the heat in your house where I, for years, thought that heat cost about $4.50 per minute to run. So I was like in gas money on your gas bill. So and I lived in L.A. for forever. So I would never I would be like, let's just throw on sweatshirts or a coat. And then I started living with my now wife and she was like, this isn the right way to live and so then i started turning it on you're also living on the east coast like in in it was 30 degrees this morning different temperatures yeah correct and when we turn it on if you haven't used the heat in a while there's generally a lot of like dust and i don't know mouse bones in there and i'm allergic to some of that so allergic to mouse like i don't yeah i'm it's not mice is a full you know out of the garage mouse

it's fine but it's been smoked a whole mouse this morning i did yeah we this is came right off the bone and a full mouse and yeah no um it generally gives me allergies so i just think it's over i like to bundle up i prefer a blanket and like a nice comfy hoodie in home yeah i do and which yeah and i'm right i was about to say i realized that's strange it's not strange it's blake will you do me a favor go ahead right now wait yeah i'm right okay is the is the heat on right now at your place no no it can't be um and you said it was 30 degrees this morning yeah but it's gone up to about 49 okay will you touch the tip of your nose and tell me if that's warm or cold right now i can't feel it i can't even tell if it just broke off

that's like snowmen. That's always when I know the house is too cold is when the tip of my nose gets cold. I'm like, nah, let me, I don't need to have all this shit on. But it's funny. As someone who loves to wear like warm, like cold weather clothing, just for some reason, I get in my house. I'm like, do I need to wear a parka on my couch? I don't know.

But hey, teach their own. When I was a kid, we we i but we grew up like never wanted for anything you know grew up my dad had a good job and i'm saying this because of what i'm about to say we know hey take those silver spoons out of your mouth real quick i can't hear you i can't they're actually uh welded to my teeth my teeth instead of fillings, I have silver stones melted down, formed into molars. And we just I slept like in a converted attic, which had air conditioning, but no heat. So when I would come home from college winter break, I would sleep in a coat. And you know what?

That's probably why I don't give a shit about heat, because I did it when I was young. I was able to sleep in a coat why can't the woman i love more than anything on earth suffer along with me yeah no she'll figure your parents didn't tell many people about you huh they just kind of kept you up in that attic no no and didn't want anybody to know yeah it was they wouldn't come up until my plates started piling up outside the door. Yeah. A little slot. It's a,

or if we had company over and they would blindfold me and give me my happy juice. Yes. Yes. And I met the broom once the broom that they used to hit the ceiling and say, sorry, we have rats every time I'd sneeze or something. I said,

we have rats. I said, the mice bones are rattling again up there hence your mice bone who turned on the heat you you got allergic to mice bones because they were your only friends for so long but they were they were also they were also from a physiological standpoint it's fine no it does sometimes the mental state and also if i'd like break a bone trying to escape i would make a splint out of their bones yeah too weird just bone supporting bones why not man sometimes it be your bones together you know thank you exactly We got to come together. You know? Thank you. Mm-hmm. Exactly.

What's something you think is underrated? Okay, two things. Stovetop espresso, which I think is just like the percolators. They're just great. Oh, that metal thing, right? Yeah, yeah, the metal thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's better than French press. I think it's better than French press. I think it's better than a pour over.

You know, it might not be better than like a hundred year old French machine or something, but I think it's the best you could do, you know? And then the other thing I like that I think is underrated are the cheapy headphones that you get from flight attendants on flights because they always come in handy at the exact time when you can't find your other shit. Oh, got it're like wait a minute i have one of these in my purse and then you need it and you have it and those are my two yeah i it's for i'm like such a headphone nerd like i'm like i got my own cans thank you so much the fidelity is way too fucked up for my ears but hey maybe the maybe my mother would like it because she doesn't care about how shit sounds.

But yeah, I never thought of it as like sort of like having like a package of Kleenex or something too. Where you're like, oh, headphones. Wait, I know I have a pile of them from every flight I go on. Exactly. Now I will be less stuck up and I will accept them gleefully. You just take them as your backup right right some of them break like one and a half uses in into a life cycle but sometimes like that that's not a rule and sometimes they'll last you a year you know those would be you get the the real ones

that uh are able to kind of stick together i I thought Stove Top Espresso was the Stove Top Stuffing brand expanding into the world of espresso. So I'm very glad to hear that that's not what's happening. Just add water to the powder. There it is. And microwave it. Oh my God.

I'm Ethiopian. I would never do that. Serious about the coffee. That's where my American brain went. Of course. Of course. Yeah. Of course.

So it's probably comes in a box, this stovetop espresso. It's like a. What aisle is that in? Where do I find that? All right. Well, let's,

let's take a quick break and we'll come back and talk about presidents creating foreign policy based on some movies they just saw. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and LA-based Shekinah Church, an alleged cult that has impacted members for over two decades. Jessica and I will delve into the hidden truths between high control groups and interview dancers, church members and others whose lives and careers have been impacted just like mine. Through powerful, in-depth interviews with former members and new chilling firsthand accounts, the series will illuminate untold and extremely necessary perspectives.

Forgive Me For I Have Followed will be more than an exploration. It's a vital revelation aimed at ensuring these types of abuses never happen again. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This summer, the nation watched as the Republican nominee for president was the target of two assassination attempts

separated by two months. These events were mirrored nearly 50 years ago when President Gerald Ford faced two attempts on his life in less than three weeks. President Gerald R. Ford came stunningly close to being the victim of an assassin today. And these are the only two times we know of that a woman has tried to assassinate a U.S. president.

One was the protege of infamous cult leader Charles Manson. I always felt like Lynette was kind of his right-hand woman. The other, a middle-aged housewife working undercover for the FBI in a violent revolutionary underground. Identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore. The story of one strange and violent summer. This is Rip Current, available now with new episodes every Thursday. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Some people won't give you the real talk on drugs, but it's time we know the facts. Fentanyl is often laced into illicit drugs and used to make fake versions of prescription pills.

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This message is brought to you by the Ad Council. And we're back. We're back. And I guess to kick us off, I'd just be curious to hear a little bit more about your background, April. What kind of stories did you cover prior to this? How do you get to this story because i personally hear agriculture and my brain doesn't turn off but it assumes that's somebody else's story to pay attention to

but then this one was so good and it seems like based on some of your credentials that agriculture is kind of a sweet spot for you. Yeah, I'd say I almost fell into it because at my job prior to coming to Center for Public Integrity, I covered rural issues and really had the opportunity to shape that beat as I saw fit. that beat as I saw fit. And, you know, at that time Trump was president, there were like subsidies basically that were given to farmers when there was a trade war with China to help keep them on their feed. And there was, you know, investigative reporting that showed most of that money, nearly all of that money went to white farmers. And some of that just has to do with the way, like the structure of the system. So I got just into rural issues reporting into agriculture as like a beat within my beat while I was at my previous job. And, and during that time also learned more about the history of discrimination at USDA. I learned against Black farmers and other

farmers of color as well. And, you know, learned more about Pickford versus Glickman, which was this big class action lawsuit Black farmers were successful in in the first installment in the late 90s, 1999. And doing that work, you know, led me to CPI and trying to like not sound super wonky about it, but... No, get wonky, get wonky no get wonky get wonky get wonky go wonk and hearing a farmer who actually recently passed away his name's eddie slaughter he passed away oh yeah yeah he passed away like uh end of september it just happened

yeah i'm sad to hear that yeah that i mean like this story is so it it like it touches intersects with so many issues that the united states has been the cause of and never the solution to and it's the the whole journey that you sort of take listeners on is really fantastic because like jack said like when i hear like when i hear people talking about big agriculture i hear about big agriculture and factory farming and farm subsidies, but I'm like, yeah, I don't know. It's just like that one industry. Like the government is the one being like the money hose will never turn off for some

of you. Right. And then really beginning to zoom out to really understand the entirety of it. Because in my mind, I'm like, it's probably like you just assume it's like, it's probably like five companies doing everything when you lose sight of sort of what these origin stories are. And you go back to, you know, the early 20th century in Oklahoma, and how a lot of these farming, these black farming communities were thriving, you know, and we've talked about like Black Wall Street on this show

and just sort of the whole history there. But can you kind of just like sort of paint this picture? Because I think more than even talking about like when we're going to talk about what's happening now, but I think it's really important for people to understand how prosperous Black farming was in the United States to really get an understanding of like the tragedy that has been occurring ever since then. Just to refresh people, Black Wall Street was Tulsa, Oklahoma, like this boom time, like all Black or, you know, prominently Black community where business was just thriving, families were getting rich.

And because they're being left to like operate a community on their own without a lot of white supremacy coming in and, you know, using the tools of systemic oppression to crush them. And then people, obviously this is a simplified way of saying it, but like the, what white supremacy came in and burnt the town to the ground and like raised, like literally raised the community in Oklahoma. But yeah, totally a story that I didn't know was that not far away, also in Oklahoma around the same time, there was a similarly thriving rural community that you talked about, April. Yeah, we talk about Bowley, Oklahoma,

which is where the main character of the podcast is from, Nate Bradford. And it was in some ways like a country version of that Tulsa. It was a thriving Black community that was full of folks who came from the Deep South, escaping Jim Crow around the turn of the century and trying to, you know, get a piece of land and be free. And a lot of those folks ended up settling in Bowley because there was a railroad that was being developed and going from Oklahoma to Arkansas. So it was just, you know, a good place to be. And that brought a lot of folks through there. So they settled, you know, in and around Bowley. They were able to buy land, be a part of this community that was for Black folks by Black folks. So, you know, answering to local government leadership and everything that was done was in the interest of the people who were there who

were majority Black. And a lot of those folks, cotton was huge. So a lot of them were cotton farmers. Some of them were also in cattle farming. And Bowley ended up, and they really, you know, paid for Bowley, right? Their money was what was making the town prosperous. And Bowley ended up being hugely successful. It had colleges. It had grocery stores. It had colleges, it had grocery stores, it had banks, it had what is believed to be the first Black nationally chartered bank in the country, which is huge. And yeah, I mean, that ended up changing for a number of reasons. But Bowley was one of 50 black towns at the time yeah and it's just so so devastating

to the central narrative of white supremacy what like the the existence of this thriving town that like if white supremacists allow this town to exist is able to thrive and have this amazing community. And also, like, kind of devastating to some of the central tenets of capitalism, like individualism and capitalism, where there's this, you know, we've talked about community action and how, you know, Black communities and, you know, Indigenous communities are some of the best models that we have of, like, how, you know, communities that take care of themselves and start their own, you know, circular communities. And yeah, so it runs against the central core narrative of the American mainstream in a lot of ways that are probably scary to powerful people. Right. It's also like hearing about that era, too, where, you know, these communities were thriving and that the change came once, you know, like once statehood occurred and now Oklahoma was going to be like basically get like the other states that were out like enacting the gym, these Jim Crow laws.

of like racial interference that suddenly now they're seeing segregation and they're seeing all these laws that are like are completely changing the way they live what was like from that moment on because i think this is this is what becomes really interesting too is this is sort of like the that was sort of like the height of things and now we begin to see the deterioration of these communities and the dispossession of land. What was like, after these Jim Crow laws were enacted, what sort of like the kind of next sort of beats that happen that are kind of that begin sort of this momentum even further? Yeah, so Oklahoma became a state in 1907. It starts passing these Jim Crow laws. But Bowley did thrive for a little bit longer. But then there were a lot of economic things that happened, right? There was the Great Depression. There

was the Bull Weevil that chewed up the cotton. There was the Agricultural Adjustment Act in the 30s that limited the amount of cotton a farmer could produce. Those that were sharecroppers and folks, farmers got money to help them through that. But folks that were sharecroppers and folks farmers got money to help them through that but folks that were sharecroppers may not have seen any of that money and black folks were kind of limited in what they could grow so all those things led to the decline of bully um a lot of the folks there and like the local historians say that even though there was this jim crow violence happening outside of bully not even that far outside of bully because there were some downtowns very close. Bowley felt, you know, kind of protected, but it's still that fear, that violence that's happening just outside. All these things came together and encouraged folks to move on to other places. Wow. And then like, I guess,

you know, part of like the whole, you know, the focus of this season is talking about just the decline and discrimination in black farming and black farmers like in its prime as opposed to right now just so we can give ourselves an idea of like how aggressive this process has been so around the turn of the century when we know and obviously coming out of slavery there were a great number of black farmers and we know for example there's a study number of Black farmers. And we know, for example, there's a study that found Black farmers lost $326 billion in land and wealth from 1920 to 1997, which is a huge, huge number. And we know that the number of Black farmers has dropped 67% since 1900. So that's a pretty big one now as well. Black farmers now are only about 1.4% of all farmers, so just a tiny number.

And that was not the case leading up to the 1920s, was not like 1.4%. No. It was, Black folks had, you know, we're much greater in number and we're also, you know, significant landowners as well. Yeah. And the way the government accomplished this is kind of a thing we've, you know, the systemic economic forces, economic racism, and it blends in more easily when they can just say, oh, well, you know, there was a bad run of bull weevils or something like that, and not focusing on, well, in white communities when there's a,

you know, bad string of crops because of boll weevils, the government comes in and turns on the money hose, right? But in this case, there's just a different standard of when to intervene and how easy it is to get government assistance and then, like, what happens once you get that government assistance. Yeah. I mean, obviously there's racial violence that had a part in this, but also subsidies, for example, are more helpful to farmers that are larger landowners or farmers who are growing certain crops. And Black farmers tend to be smaller guys, so they're not going to get as much money from those subsidy programs. The USDA, for example, is a lender of last resort. And that means you had to get rejected from other agencies, other banks in order to

get a loan from them. And there's this long documented history showing that Black farmers have had a tougher time getting those loans. And when they get those loans, they're not as much as they would have wanted them to be, or maybe they're delayed so that they don't come when the farmer might need it for planting. They come much later. And then that kind of has a chain reaction to it. Right. just realize that the USDA is doing some of the most vile shit, like in terms of disenfranchising these farmers or putting them essentially into like a debt trap to dispossess their land.

And I know like it's like you'll never find a document that says this is our mandate as the USDA. But when you look at how the USDA was interacting with black farmers that were looking for loans and things like that, it's just wild how so many of the people that you spoke to were sort of saying like, the second I took that loan was basically the end, like when I began to rely on the USDA. And the just the hoops and things that people have to jump through just for the simplest things is really like mind blowing. Like, can you kind of just paint a picture for people of sort of how the u.s like how this game is set up with the usda of how like because i think normal people would be like oh

yeah what's the problem you get your loan if you have an off year you tell them they understand and then maybe they work with you to make something happen. But that really wasn't the case for Black farmers, really, ever. Yeah. So, like, in the past, USDA had a system where county committees who are, like, local farmers would have a lot of influence deciding who is creditworthy. And so, you know, they could decide, like, that Black farmer, for example, we don't want to give him a loan. Or one of the experts we talked to says how the county committee person could say, well, I have my eye on that piece that farmer is in trouble. And there are farmers, older farmers, and then younger farmers like me, who tells us his story of how he felt he didn't get the flexibility that he needed from his loan officer. Right. It's like, do you think, you know, like in looking at it too, because, you know, Nate, the, one of the farmers that you speak with talks about how, when he's asking for his loan to be restructured or something, their solution is basically like, why don't you just sell your land then? And, or like sell your cattle. And they're like, but that's how I make my living. So if I do that, that renders me like inert from a business

standpoint. And like with that, like knowing that, that you had these sort of credit bureaus of like local, like landed farmers who are the ones determining who are like kind of behind the scenes, or at least had a, like a seat at the table to determine who got loans. It feels like that sort of I got my eye on that property sort of energy has just kind of persisted throughout like the like the decades following it. mid-90s, because that's what Pickford was based on. We know that the trickier question is, to what extent is this happening now? To what extent has it continued? And people like me, obviously, through his experience, feel like it has. Other folks would argue that USDA has done a number of things to try to rectify this, but I guess we're still trying to figure it out. Right. Can you talk about, you did mention that there's racial violence that played a role in this over the course of like the transition from 1920 to the late 90s. Can you just talk about what that was, what that looked like?

Because I think that's probably helpful when then coming into this and being like and then this is a world that was like self-policing where where like the the usda just gets to use their own judgment to make financial decisions but what what was what was happening at that at that Yeah. I mean, outside of the Deep South, I guess some would consider Oklahoma still part of that, but Oklahoma has like one of the highest documented things outside of the Deep South, traditional Deep South. And, you know, there are stories, Oklahoma elsewhere, folks kind of abandoning their property because of fear of racial violence from white farmers, white landowners. So, I mean, that's kind of outside of USDA, but that's something that's a function to dispossess Black farmers as well. Yeah. USDA, I mainly knew prior to this for like grading my eggs and meat.

It was kind of my experience with the USDA, but truly like they've set up this Kafka-esque like just system. Like there's one scene where they discover like that this USDA civil rights agency that they've been sending their complaints to, the office just doesn't exist. Their letters have been just piling up in an office somewhere. And when it comes time to actually look at their complaints and what the USDAda was doing the court is just like we can't use those letters as evidence because they never opened like basically the logic is like they never opened them so what are they supposed to do but yeah it's like the judicial historical equivalent of like plugging your ears and saying la la la like i can hear you. So like it doesn't count, but yeah, it's just a whole

different level of like illogic and injustice that I don't know. Like it was crazy to hear about. Yeah. Yeah. During, um, with the Oregon administration, that's when the civil rights office was like pretty much closed. So you had farmers sending in their discrimination complaints and they weren't going anywhere, right? Like nobody was, was reading them. They were, were just kind of piling up in a room that, and nobody was monitoring them. So that was one of the things that really fed into the Pickford suit that even when farmers filed complaints of discrimination, they weren't being addressed. There was no one to address them. Right. And it's, again, like, it feels like the USDA is just like another example of many other

agencies or institutions that, like, after decades of discriminatory behavior, they'll be like, oh, yeah, it turns out we may have been doing some bad stuff. And then it just kind of feels like it sort of peters out there uh because it felt like especially when discussing uh the pickford for verse glickman right is the case that there was a moment for this to potentially create some kind of sea change but it it just it just didn't and a lot of that i'm sure too like as you like as the like reporting shows like in the in the show is that a lot of it too is also like by design by like offering these farmers like when the like in a settlement that it was just kind of like pick your poison here and neither are actually going to fully address

like, pick your poison here, and neither are actually going to fully address all of the injustices that you had to suffer. Yeah. So there was a settlement agreement. And so this case never went to trial. So farmers never had the opportunity to really, like, tell their case in court. But they decided on a settlement that didn't actually require USDA to come out and say, you know, we did wrong. We're going to change our ways. We're going to fire folks who were involved in this. Like none of that had to happen. And the settlement offered two tracks for folks to follow. One of those tracks, basically they had to show some level of paperwork. They had to prove some level of discrimination and they would get $50,000. But they also had to prove some level of discrimination, and they would get $50,000. But they also had to show that there was a white farmer in a similarly situated position,

that they suffered an economic loss. That was supposedly the easy track. And then there was track B. And that one, they had to gather more paperwork. They had to present it at a mini trial. they had to gather more paperwork. They had to present it at like a mini trial. They had to show that their damages were greater than $50,000. And then they had to convince an arbitrator of all that and they could potentially get, you know, a substantial amount of money. The farmer that we talked to, Eddie, says that the lawyers really encouraged the farmers to go with track A and not track B. And part of that was because track A offered the possibility of debt forgiveness if they could find discrimination attached to the loan in question. So he argues that's why a bunch of us went with track A,

something like, I think like 2% or less than 2% went with track B. And in the end, a lot of folks didn't end up who went with track A didn't end up getting that loan forgiveness. It's that's what's like really harrowing, especially that when you talk about Eddie, and, you know, the the never ending fight with the USDA, of how it's always him, or the farmers trying to prove that they're worthy of these loans, that they're being left out all the while that the USDA uses things like offsets, which is like this practice to say like, well, if you can't pay some of this debt that you have, we'll just take this out of your $50,000 settlement from the USDA.

Like the, the, it just feels like never ending. And like the, the, the frustration that comes out in some of these, these people's voices, it's really, really like, it's heartbreaking because at the end of the day, they're trying to do something as simple as just like grow things on the land and have a very simple life. They're not saying like, I'm trying to live outside of my means or do something extravagant. It's like, I like to farm and we're not given this opportunity. And every other turn,

it feels like they have to constantly fight just to not have their finances whittled away to the point that they are so destitute that the only option is to give up everything and give up land. And they all talk aboutitute that the only option is to give up everything and give up land. And they all talk about how important like the land is. Like it's sometimes it's not even about the money. It's the fact that for, especially for, uh, for black Americans, that owning that piece

of land is such a vital part of your longevity of you being able to have something to give to your, your, your descendants and things like that and that must have been so difficult to like i mean did you have any i'm sure you had a sense of how like backwards this whole thing was but like did did did it just kind of make you more angry or what was that like because i like listening to it i wanted to like scream half the time um i wouldn't say it make made me angry necessarily i think sometimes when you're like you're so seeped in it it's like you lose a little bit of that but i i think i mean folks like eddie are so passionate about this cause and i think farmers in general, regardless of race, are really attached to the land.

I mean, it's a multi-generational life, right? They're not just thinking about themselves. They're thinking about who's coming up after them because they want the name to be carried on, you know, well after them. And I think the stakes are obviously so much higher for Black farmers, given everything that folks went through to just to hold on to that land with the violence and with the economic issues that they faced 100 years ago. To have it now is like it's huge. So yeah, it's, I mean, it is a sad story when we think about just everything

that's involved. Let's take a quick break and we'll come back and talk about just where you see things heading and where you kind of leave things at the end of the show. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and LA-based Shekinah Church, an alleged cult that has impacted members for over two decades. Jessica and I will delve into the hidden truths between high control groups and interview dancers,

church members, and others whose lives and careers have been impacted, just like mine. Through powerful, in-depth interviews with former members and new, chilling firsthand accounts, the series will illuminate untold and extremely necessary perspectives. Forgive Me For I Have Followed will be more than an exploration.

It's a vital revelation aimed at ensuring these types of abuses never happen again. necessary perspectives. Forgive Me for I Have Followed will be more than an exploration. It's a vital revelation aimed at ensuring these types of abuses never happen again. Listen to Forgive Me for I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This summer, the nation watched as the Republican nominee for president was the target of two assassination attempts, separated by two months. These events were mirrored nearly 50 years ago when President Gerald Ford faced two attempts on his life in less than three weeks. President Gerald R. Ford came stunningly close to being the victim of an assassin today.

And these are the only two times we know of that a woman has tried to assassinate a U.S. president. One was the protege of infamous cult leader Charles Manson. I always felt like Lynette was kind of his right-hand woman. The other, a middle-aged housewife working undercover for the FBI in a violent revolutionary underground. Identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore. The story of one strange and violent summer. This is Rip Current. Available now with new episodes every Thursday.

Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Some people won't give you the real talk on drugs. But it's time we know the facts. Fentanyl is often laced into illicit drugs and used to make fake versions of prescription pills. You can't see it, taste it, or smell it. Suppliers mix fentanyl into their products because it's potent and cheap. And the dealer might not even know. Keep yourself and others safe by knowing the real deal on fentanyl.

Get the facts. Go to realdealonfentanyl.com. This message is brought to you by the Ad Council. And we're back. And has anyone, so there's that one, there's that one picture of him on the beach, right? Yeah. With Casey and it's like clearly Photoshopped

and there are no footprints behind them. Is that because of something to do with like maybe his feet aren't even real? Isn't that make him a vampire? Yeah, maybe he's a vampire. Oh, if you're footless. We can get right on them feet pictures. I feel so terrible that I didn't actually put this into the document for us to look at. But yeah.

Well, you know, I would be distraught. What? He's got thick feet, folks. Yeah. Thick feet. We love a thick foot king. Yeah. Those look like the inflamed foot of a man who's been wearing lifts.

Yeah. And one of his feet is propped up like a Barbie foot. He can't stop propping it. His calves. Oh, could you imagine that foot is stuck like that? From overuse of the lifts? It took three days to get the left foot flattened out, but they just couldn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He has extremely flat feet. Yeah. Yeah. Well, hey, Ron. Not anymore. Not with the magic of these lifts. No, not at all. Alright, we have an update on

a story that we've been covered breathlessly. We're like, guys, stop stealing from Target. There's a theft ring that is putting them out of business. And it turns out that is bullshit. Yeah. What do you know? We've been covering, like, I remember the first

one we talked about was probably Walgreens in the Bay area they're like oh god it's so out of control and then it's like no your rent's too high you're not doing enough business and you over expanded too quickly and you're using this as cover and now the latest one was like about a month ago target is the latest company crying crime wave and they they said, we're going to have to close nine stores because they're shoplifting so much. And again, every fucking place CNBC Target says it will close nine stores in major cities citing violence and theft. Wall Street Journal Target to close stores in San Francisco. Other cities citing theft. Bloomberg Target closes nine NYC West Coast stores to stop losses from rising theft.

The New York Times, Target citing theft to close nine stores. Everybody just took this and ran with it. OK, and sadly for New York Times is the most liberal publication in the world. What? Obviously. Yeah, I'm so confused. I know their coverage is so to the left. It's right.

That's how wild it is. It's right. That's how fucking wild it is. It's crazy. But like, sadly for them, Judd Legum's popular information team took a look at the numbers of the stores affected in San Francisco and New York. And guess what? These stores that are being shuttered actually had lower instances of theft

than the fucking stores that are remaining open. How does that work? And then, but politicians, they only read the Wall Street Journal. So naturally, a few senators have introduced a bill that are remaining open. How does that work? And then, but politicians, they only read the Wall Street Journal. So naturally, a few senators have introduced a bill called the Combating Organized Retail Crime Act. And that's really just more cop shit, right? Obviously.

And they point to this statistic in their press release about why they need to act. Quote, organized retail crime costs retailers $720,000 for every $1 billion in sales. That's up 50% since 2015. Damn, I'm in the wrong business. Hey, wait, quick math those are. You love math joke. And I know you're really good at math. What percentage is 720,000 out of 1 billion? Three.

There you go. It's actually 0.07% of sales. Yeah. And like the group that they say they get the stats from, this lobbying group, the National Retail Federation is the one keeping the stats. And even they admit they stopped recording these specific stats like back in 2020 because the numbers were so minuscule. Oh my God.

And really a lot of people are just like like just like the Walgreens thing. Some people who are like savvy investors kind of looking into it and they're like, it looks like maybe Target is just trying to hide behind the theft argument to cover up the fact that their stores are just doing less business because they're poorly planned in the locations they're at. And maybe because the prices might still be too high. Maybe that could also be a thing too, but of course. Nah, it couldn't be that. Target would be like, we're losing business because our shit's overpriced. Yeah.

Well, and also for them to have nine stores. Oh yeah, closed down. And that's just the ones they close. Like there's more stores that they have. I mean, it's poor planning yeah yeah together yeah uh but i've seen a lot of people argue about this story too where they're like people really buy into it they love to people love to cape for retail stores it's fucking wild like there's like there's a twitter thread going i was like looking at people saying like if you knew anything about being in retail you know that like law enforcement is so underfunded that they can't even do anything about it.

And other people were like, have you ever worked at a store and had someone steal something? You never call the cops. You know why? Because they're gonna be like, the fuck you want us to do? Yeah. Like you should catch them. Their response to most things. Yeah, exactly.

It turns out. The fuck you want me to do? Yeah. Oh, wait, hold on. There's someone having a fucking mental health crisis. We're right we're right there guns drawn but yeah like it's yeah so this fucking this this like little dumb story keeps coming back all the time it'll never go away but keep your eye out for that theft has gone up a little bit in the past 10 years and that is because of self-checkouts they They introduced self-checkouts

and it was a calculated risk that self-checkout would save them enough money that it would offset the losses they would have from people just being like, oh, missed that one, but okay. Okay, everyone knows that self-checkout is where you go when you want to steal shit. Yeah, of course.

And they know that too. I'm not saying I do, I'm just saying. Right. is where you go when you want to steal shit. Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they know that too. I'm not saying I do. I'm just saying. Right. Yeah. And also what you do is the person who's like the monitor, like the one human they have over there, you get good with them. You're like, hey, man. Exactly.

I'm about to come up on a London broil if you want. I'll split it with you. And they're like, oh. That's right. Listen, I'm going to buy this boot lift. Yeah. Don't tell anyone about it. That's right. Listen, I'm going to buy this boot lift. Yeah. Don't tell anyone about it. That's how I, that's how my sleep deprived brain does things.

Hey, I'm going to commit an act. And you're like, I think you're here for your child's three month checkup. Right. Oh, my bad. Okay, sorry. That wasn't targeted. All right. There's a story from dentists where... Dentists?

I appreciate the specificity of their... They're really just being like, we don't give a fuck about any other part of the body. We're good here. So, an article this week, a dentist in Virginia implored kids to eat all their Halloween candy in one sitting

because it's much better for your teeth. Oh, hilarious. It might upset your belly a little bit. Yeah, it might to eat all your candy in one sitting.

It might, like, put you into a diabetic coma, like, literally. But, I don't know. Every single year, Dennis. Yeah. But this isn't like one way.

Silly Dennis. Like every single year, Dennis give the same advice where they're like, I mean, if you're going to eat candy, like a big bag full of candy, might as well get it out of the way now. And then just go brush your teeth immediately. and then just go brush your teeth immediately. Oh, rather than like a prolonged, a prolonged multi-years effort, like my weird bag candy vault would be. If you eat all your candy in one city, you're exposing your teeth to that frequency one time.

But if you're sitting there and you're eating it every 20, 30 minutes for the next few days over the next week, it's causing more damage to your teeth. Oh, that's a quote from one dentist i put it all in a bowl by my bed and after i brush my teeth i have one yeah there you go i remember i do not use hands i just go face first into a bowl of yeah of i called it peeled candy that's how much that's how much i use uh unconsuming vegetables and fruits that the only thing I can say is

peeled candy. Peel the skin off my candy and then just go at it. Yeah. You gotta do the thing where you know those flat Jolly Rancher candies? Oh yeah. Those are so good. You just put those on each side of your mouth before you... Make a little retainer.

Wrap it around. Suck on it for a little bit and wrap it around both so you have one in your bottom jaw oh yeah your top jaw and then or like you're going for x-rays and like that film you have to bite down on just like two jolly rancher those flat pieces go to bed folks dentists love that yeah i just i don't know i guess it could be argued that it's also not great for kids teeth to have them bolt through a plate glass window and a sugar crazed frenzy after eating an entire pillowcase full of candy. But I'm with the dentists on this one. That's right. Yeah. You know, after you've been murdered and manslaughtered, massacred. Whatever. Tortured by a serial killer. Yeah.

How do you want your teeth to look to the whole rest of the world? That's what, that's mainly, yeah, when people are like, what am I going to leave behind when they're having existential crises? Teeth. Just your teeth? Your teeth. That's what you're going to leave behind. Yeah. So you sit down, little Jimmymy and you eat that entire goddamn bag

of candy yes do you think while i watch you do you think kids want to do that like i know everyone's like i'm gonna eat it now but like i feel like there's always that sort of deferred gratification thing like yeah no he's definitely speaking to parents of kids with candy like yeah adults in charge of kids bags of candy right like right i used to eat all my nieces candy they forget about it yeah yeah they really do they don't give a shit they forget about it after like three days they're like yeah whatever halloween oh jack you dole it do you dole it out do i dole it out yeah no they forget they're in no i'm saying are they in control of their their bag account no no no no they get a're in no i'm saying are they in control of their their bag account no no no no they get a couple pieces on halloween night and then like maybe one or two

and like a couple nights after and then they forget about it because they're also like they my wife raised them on the idea that fruit is dessert and fruit is the sweetest thing that you get. And so they really prefer fruit to candy. And I'm just sitting there being like, you suckers. When I eat all of their candy in a dark room. You bunch of total idiots. I'll be like, dad has all my Jolly Ranchers in his mouth again. I'm going to enjoy this for the rest of the night.

Dad's teeth are rotting out of his head at such a rate that we can actually see it in real time. I think I saw a worm come out of his incisor, too. That's a gummy worm, I think. Let's get a diagram on this. And finally, we've got a great trend, a thriving subculture in New Zealand. There have been a bunch of headlines in the past week about how a New Zealand town

has been plagued by drivers blasting Celine Dion ballads, which has turned people's lives into chaos. Sounds to me like plagued is the wrong word here. It should be enhanced blessed yeah serious blessed thank you but yeah it makes it sound like it's a prank of some sort of some sort but it's actually kind of nuanced and beautiful so there's this there's this elaborate new zealand subculture in which siren clubs have quote siren battles where they blare music on speakers hooked

up to modded cars or bikes to compete for the title of siren king to win so this is like this was happening with like bass when i was growing up with like cars with like base wars yeah base wars but the the difference here is to win their sounds can't just be the loudest. They also have to be the clearest, which is why competitors, many of them of the Pacific community, have been using Celine Dion because her music has high treble, which makes it very clear you can play it at a loud volume and three blocks away they just hear the voice of an angel sound out in the night clear as a bell as if i didn't already want to move to new zealand enough i know right that's their biggest problem is people blasting celine dion yeah well And it's wild too, because it's not even like, even when people are like,

it's a gang or whatever, it's like, no, it's actually like a really positive thing for young people. It's not even like, they're doing instead of a gang. They say like the kids are like, actually like this keeps me pretty like a,

it's like a fun, productive thing that we do together. Right. It's like, it reminds me of like how, like in some cities on the East coast, like a fun, productive thing that we do together. Right. It like, it reminds me of like how like in some cities on the East Coast, like they're, they're like angry when they see like groups of kids in this like city on bikes and stuff. Yeah. And they're like, it's a nuisance. We're like, honestly, some of these kids, like this is, this is healthier for them to

have fun together doing something like on a bike than, you know, getting into some fucking nonsense or getting in trouble. So it's, it's, it's always interesting to see how these subcultures pop up and then like i love that it's such a respect for the fidelity that they've had to dial in and it's like celine dion is actually like it's not even about the style it's about this is the music that helps us really determine who the siren king is i'm just picturing like a bunch of teenagers it's like that scene in shawshank when the voice comes over and all these teenagers just look up

and a single tear runs down their eye. What's your favorite Celine Dion ballad? The Power of Lerve? Yeah. I feel like it has to be. I'm blasting that shit. i'm not by heart will go on

that feels i'm sorry it feels a little kind of yeah little played although i'm not saying the power of lerv is the you know like an original banger either but i just feel like that would if i'm trying to be a siren king i'll probably try and win with that one i think you would win siren king miles and you know i thank you so one i think you would win siren king miles and you know thank you so much i'm you know i'm i am planning to just maybe make my way to auckland to see how i can you imagine that fucking comedy movie about some dude in like america being like i just want to be a siren king dad yeah like and making the journey to new zealand do it go live your dream Live your dream!

Live your dream, boy! What's that one? He's trying to bring bass music to the siren battles. And everyone's like, this fucking sucks, man. It's all muddled, man. I can't, no. This is not Siren King material. If you kiss me like this,

and you whisper like that. It's all coming, all coming back, all coming back to me now. Wow. When it gets to, baby, baby, baby. That's when you're fucking, that's when you just put your Siren King crown on. You're like, yep. Any other questions? That, that shit's hot.

I feel like I Will Always Love You would be a fun one to just like here again ring out because it opens with that long acapella just just her just whitney you know i mean she's got lines like the flesh and the fantasy folks it's all coming back when you said that line it's all coming back to me and by it's all coming back to me i By it's all coming back to me, I just could smell the backseat of my parents' car. That song was playing and I was nine years old. Oh, I thought this was you like making out in the back of your parents' car or something. No, no. You're like, should I put the Celine Dion on? No.

Set the mood. Shall we smooch to some Celine? on? No. Set the mood? Shall we, uh... Shall we smooch to some Celine? Damn, Jack. Shall we bless the backseat with some Celine? They're like,

wait, can you take me home? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, that was a big swing on my part. I didn't realize that would feel so bad. Sorry, why do you have goosebumps? I'll listen.

Drop me off. Drop me off up here alright that's gonna do it for this week's weekly zeitgeist please like and review the show if you like the show means the world to miles he needs your validation folks I hope you're having a great weekend and I will talk to you Monday. Bye. Thank you. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series, Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult.

And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me for I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and Shekinah Church. Listen to Forgive Me for I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese.

Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry, Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts.

There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.