The Daily Zeitgeist - Weekly Zeitgeist 307 (Best of 1/29/24-2/2/24)

Episode Date: February 4, 2024

The weekly round-up of the best moments from DZ's season 323 (1/29/24-2/2/24)See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me for I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and Shekinah Church. Listen to Forgive Me for I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry.

Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. I'm Carrie Champion and this is season four of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese.

People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's basketball. And on this new season, we'll cover all things sports and culture. Listen to Naked Sports on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio apps, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by Diet Coke. Hello, the internet and welcome to this episode of the weekly Zeitgeist. These are some of our favorite segments from this week, all edited together into one nonstop infotainment laugh-stravaganza. So without further ado, here is the Weekly Zeitgeist.

Miles, we are thrilled to be joined in our third seat by a writer, speaker, activist, best-selling author who works on issues of race and identity in America. Her new book is Be a Revolution, How Everyday People Are Fighting Oppression and Changing the World and How You Can Too. Please welcome to the show, the brilliant, the talented, Ijeoma Oluo!

Ijeoma! Welcome, welcome. How are you doing? Welcome. I am, I'm doing well. How are you? We're doing great. We're doing great. It's great to have you. We just finished your book.

We're very excited to talk about it and pick your brain and ask you questions, but not make you do any of the extra labor that sometimes you're asked to do in other spaces. Obviously, we want this to be a free flowing conversation, but yeah, I also have to say you are from Seattle. And the first thing I always say to every person from Seattle is dicks. Ain't it great. Aren't the fries great. And you came with it and said it was part of your very substantial moment in your life on your wedding. So I'm glad to hear

that. Uh, we have, we have that, that in common just to start yeah yeah sometimes it's all you need you know you don't because dicks are miles has very specific taste and french fries that he likes them the texture medium rare that you know he likes he likes uh matt soggy mashed potato sticks is that match sticks no yeah is that always your preferred type of french fry or just dicks there's something about dicks yeah no no i that always your preferred type of French fry or just dicks? There's something about dicks. Yeah, no, no. I like all different types of fries.

There aren't fries like dicks anywhere else. Like it's, there's a dicks fry and then you can't get it anywhere else. But it is a particular kind of soft, very salty thing that's beautiful. But it actually tastes like real potato where a lot of French fries don't because it is just real potato. You can watch them chopping them up and tossing them in the fryer. But yeah, it's a really specific thing. But no, I like French fries other places. But when you want a Dick's French fry, you can't go anywhere else. It's right.

That's all there is. Yeah. Love it up there. Love it up there. Beautiful. We've got it all. And a great music scene. Well, we are going to dig into your book and just all the work, your expertise.

But first, before we get to that, we do like to get to know our guest a little bit better and ask what is something from your search history that's revealing about who you are or what you're up to? The other day I was trying to figure out what happened to Seal. Oh, the singer. Like the singer. Yeah. Yeah. I was, I don't know.

I think like Heidi Klune showed up in my feed. And then I was thinking, what happened to Seal? And my partner was like, oh, did he die? And I said, I don't think he died. And so I spent a good amount of time. I don't think he died. And so I spent a good amount of time. I don't know. He just seems happy. He was recently at like his sister, I think, or his cousin had a film release and he came and brought kids. Yeah. He seems happy. I don't know. So yeah, that's for me, a lot of times it's random things popping up into my head

of, you know, what happened to this person that, you know, I, that used to be a part of times it's random things popping up into my head of you know what happened to this person that you know i that used to be a part of my life i was thinking about jimon hansu uh the other day too maybe it's just like really beautiful black men you know that popped up in like the 90s and i'm like where did they go what happened to them yeah what happened to jimon hansu what's he doing i mean he's always popping up in movies all the time. And then like, sometimes in roles, I'm like, Jamon, you, I felt like sometimes, look, it's Hollywood. You do all kinds of roles. But yeah, I'm trying to think of what the last thing I saw him in was.

Yeah, I'm trying to think he was, I saw him in something just a few years ago, but it was like a really bit part with some futuristic like space thing, I think I remember. Yeah. But like, I feel like he got typecast so bad. You know, I futuristic like space thing. I think I remember. Yeah. But like, I feel like he got typecast so bad, you know what I mean? We're like the nineties and yeah. Yeah.

You know, of like, he was only going to do like this trauma porn or he was so exotified because of his looks and his accent. And I just think that they really put him into a corner that made it hard for him to get out of. And, you know, and I think he has said the same, like, I think I remember some quotes from interviews in the past being like, yeah, he was absolutely typecast. But, you know, my favorite memory of him is always going to be the Janet Jackson video, because that's really

where I just watched that on repeat, you know, in my little like preteen hormonal, And repeat, you know, in my little like preteen hormonal like explosion of like, who is this incredibly beautiful human being? And just watched it over and over again. Love will never do without you. We know that. We know that, Jymon. Or Jymon. Weren't people calling him Jymon too? Yeah.

And I know another person. I remember I went to school with someone who called him Digimon. I heard that a couple times yeah I remember people being like Digi yeah not digital monsters the cartoon man you know what yeah I think part of the reason that like seal's kind of hard to search online like I searched seal urban legend and they were like okay is breaking the seal a real thing when you're out drinking and yeah i just feel like it's a very specific but seal is 60 and thriving and touring yeah last time google checked in with him the last last tweet he had was he's playing redondo beach beach life festival this may through May 3rd weekend with Sting, Incubus, Devo, Fleet Foxes.

This is a real interesting lineup. Wow. I feel like he should get higher billing. He's like on the third line. It feels right. I just want to know what crowd is going. Like what? How people are mixing.

Like, oh, we got your fleet foxes we got your sting yeah yeah you're like i can see i can see whatever the venn diagram is between sting and seal being very annoying like i don't want to be yeah there's a lot of yeah there's a lot of uh i would have voted obama third term if i could and yeah i feel like and then you add the fleet foxes in, too. And that Venn diagram becomes pretty insufferable. Yeah, they're three separate circles suddenly. Yeah. Oh, no.

What is something from your search history? Well, guess who prepared for the first time ever? Not you. No, it was me. It was me. I did. Okay. I was going to guess that, time ever? Not you. No, it was me. It was me. I did. Okay. I was going to guess that, but Miles guessed not you.

I was like, no, not you. Don't tell me that. Don't tell me that. All I do is look at TikTok now. And my latest search on TikTok was for cool animals. You're so fucking high. I love that shit. Hey, cool animals i love that shit whatever shows me too many people i like talk to it i'm like show cute funny animals and what did you come what do you got did you see anything new binturong a what a binturong

binturong look it up you ever seen a binturong they're so cute and weird they are wow it's like a little like a raccoon thing yeah it's a cool animal wow binturong okay we'll actually don't do this but um wow me me me looking up binturongs all day binturong cute babies see And see, this is what TikTok... So I just asked the TikTok of my generation, Google, for cool animals, and they didn't give me shit. Yeah, Google sucks now.

Yeah, I know. I will say, actually, the Google image search has been ruined by AI. Have you guys noticed this? Yeah. If you look for something now, you can look for anything on Google Image Search,

which used to be good, and now all it shows you is AI-generated images from all these free AI-generating sites that it's like, oh, you wanted to see a picture of Jesus drinking a cup of coffee? Here's like 100 AI ai generated you know you

you can use them wait really yeah you can hardly find the real picture of jesus drinking a cup of coffee jesus working as barista let's see but yeah this shit is all real basic they don't have been to wrong is that what it is been to't have been to wrong. Is that what it is? Been to wrong? Yeah, been to wrong. Oh, shit. Yeah, like open art. Yeah, that's awesome. It really did just serve me a fucking dumbass picture of a guy with great hair and a beard

with a, just working on something. Yeah, that's what happens. It just shows you this open AI thing where it's like, oh, you want to see this thing? We'll make it for you. And then you can use it for free. And they're all terrible. They're all terrible AI combinations of like images. In this one, Jesus is wearing heavy eyeliner for some reason. Because you wear eyeliner in the desert to keep it out of your eyes. Keep the sweat out of your

eyes. Exactly. Oh, it makes sense to me. Earliest form of eye black was just the thick eye makeup for Jesus. But obviously... A lot of people don't know Jesus was rocking eye black out there in the desert. Like John Randall, the Viking style,

all over his face. Another watched reference for them out there. Come on, try that. AJ, what's something you think is overrated? All right. For this one, I decided to do this. The biggest argument I've had in my family in the last week, which was I was saying how much I enjoy watching movies on double speed.

And my wife and kids were just furious. So my overrated is watching movies at regular speed. And because, you know, I wanted to see Flowers of the Killer Moon, but I'm not, I just did not want to spend four hours doing that. So I rented it on YouTube and you can put it on double speed and it was fantastic. The way it was meant to be seen by a white man at double speed. On my iPhone. Yeah. On the toilet.

Yes, I'm sorry. I know. And the experience was like. Well, I still felt emotions. I just felt them faster. I just, you know, at you my my argument is i'm a writer and i don't i'm not going in and yelling at people who skim my books or say yeah i'm like do what you want here's my book do what you want right right right so but yeah i know

that my filmmakers and and art and are not have on my family's side that this is a terrible thing. But I mean, no offense. I listen to you on double speed. Yeah. And I enjoy it. Why not? I mean, I think it's I do. I do that with like I watch a lot of reality TV and sometimes I can get through it faster by watching it at one and a half X speed.

times i can get through it faster by watching it at one and a half x speed like because there's so much dramatic pausing that when you actually condense the information down you're like oh yeah yeah yeah great i got the gist of that inane content pretty quickly but without yeah no if you cut out the repeats and then say and then let's remember what happened before the commercial break like yeah there's literally like eight minutes ten Ten minutes of actual new stuff, right. That's right. That's interesting. I've never tried to watch a movie at 2x speed. I've listened to books at 2x speed,

and some of them I'm like, you know, flying through, getting everything. And sometimes it's like too dense, and I just do not. Like, I'm 30 minutes in, and and I'm like I don't know what the fuck just happened here like right well there are some shows and movies definitely you don't like Veep I remember I tried to watch that at double speed and I was like what the hell is going on because they are so fast and witty but uh but yeah like a slow movie that's uh you know

got lots of nature shots, like you mentioned. I can deal with that. That's probably some kind of like speed comprehension test is to like take like a Tina Fey written show or IP and watch that as like 3x speed to be like, did you catch all that? That's how she picks her writers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Watch this episode of 30 Rock. 3x speed. And give me a summation. 3x speed.

Then give me a summation. Yeah. Yeah, Terrence Malick, 2x speed, probably just looks like a regular, like an 80s movie. Exactly. It's like, oh, this is normal. Well, sometimes I think when I listen to NPR, normal speed, I mean, double speed,

it just sounds like normal talking. People talking, yeah, yeah. They're not like, so? There's not the positives. Yeah, yeah. They're not like, so? There's not the pauses. Yeah, that makes sense to me. Older movies, I will say, incredibly slow. Yeah. Just long periods with people being like,

all right, we've got to head to the store to meet up for this package drop. And then watch them stand up from that table walk to the car get in the car drive to the store it's like it's realistic and they're like wait hold on i forgot my wallet okay i'll turn around hey make sure you hang your coat up before you go inside i will there are shots in the godfather of of somebody just walking down a hallway for long periods. Great movie. And maybe at the time people needed that breather or something.

But it's just like, man, I don't know. And even old comedies. It's hilarious. I remember watching the Marx Brothers. And they're doing their antic stuff, which is not that antic compared to what happens now. But then they'll do a five minute harp solo. Like Harpo will come out and actually play the harp for five minutes in a comedy movie. And you're like, what the hell is going on? Well, I mean, that legacy kind of lived on in our eighties and nineties films were like some band inexplicably had a

full on song performance in the middle of a film when you're like what the fuck like why did they do the blues brothers is i mean i've always said that john belushi is like a little bit puzzling to me because i think because he like chris farley's was my favorite like comedic figure growing up and his whole shtick was like kind of an evolutionary belushi but yeah the the blues brothers like when they just like break into long moments of them doing like white guy blues for you know i'm just like who is this for other than you guys other than the performers who made this movie blame the cocaine man blame the cocaine you don't be fucking sick, dude. And then we do like a harmonica song. But everybody fucking loves

that shit. Like people, I know so many people who are like, oh, have you seen the Blues Brothers though? Oh, you like comedy? Who are you hanging around? A bunch of cops? Yeah, it's cops. It's mostly cops. The cops that I play cards with. Laurie, what's something you think is underrated?

I guess, well, if I'm going to go sports-wise, I'd say swimming is underrated. You know, as an Olympic sport, synchronized swimming is underrated. Yeah. It's absolutely my favorite thing. It's so beautiful and difficult. And anytime you post a clip,

someone posts the clip of Martin Short and Harry Shearer from SNL. And it's like, guys, can these athletes just do one olympic one olympic so that having to see that clip please it is i mean it's iconic but it's it's one of those things that i remember you the second you try that's when you have respect for synchronized swimmers because you're like oh okay what they're doing under okay i can stay inverted underwater and then you're you're like fucking flailing because you can't do like those like micro balance paddles that they do like their hands and yeah respect not only that but they they all have to do them exactly the same so right you know

there'll be eight of them and their their hands are right next to each other and they can't mess up and their legs have to stay their feet have have to, you know, meet at the top. You can't have one foot, you know, one person's feet higher than the other. So it's so hard. The team version of it, you know, just the individual stuff on its own is really difficult too. But man. Is there individual, like, is it water dancing? No, it used to be like synchronized with the music that's what they

that's what they meant but like oh right got it no i mean like individually learning to do all those skills and then there's eight of you together yeah learning to do it so that it you're all you're all you're as one right right right holy shit there's eight of them they're i think they're, are they getting lost in powers? I'm trying to remember. It seems like at least six to eight in the team part. That's unbelievable. Yeah.

Yeah, that shit might as well be, like, a magic trick to me. I'm just like, there's something I don't understand because that looks completely impossible to me. Yeah. It is really impressive. Synchronized diving. That was pretty fun. That's very meditative to just watch people do that over

and over again. I got into the last Olympics. I would just sit there and watch that for an hour straight. Yeah, that's very cool looking. I love when they let these little sneaky sports in the Olympics. Yeah. Somebody made up four years ago.

Someone did by accident when they did it at the same time as your friend. Yeah. It got invented like when somebody was trying to break a Guinness Book of World Records. Just like trying to, I don't know, maybe most dives together. Yeah. I mean, because in 2028 or isn't we're gonna have flag football aren't we in the la olympics so is that right yeah flag football yeah it's out there so and everyone's like america you better clean the fuck up

i mean that's what kids are playing these days. I feel like young kids aren't playing Pop Warner football, at least not the ones who grow up in New York City. I have nephews who just play flag football. That's the version of football that they play. Yeah, why not? Which makes sense to me. A lot of cautionary tales out there for banging your fucking skull over and over. Yeah, not being able to navigate your own neighborhood. tales out there for banging your fucking skull over and over and you know turns out yeah not

being able to like navigate your own neighborhood did you ever see that that one that like ct documentary there's like the one soccer player this woman who just headed the ball so many times like it affected like she needed like gps to get around her town because it was just like affecting so many things like that and that's when i was like wow wow wow wow i read about her but i didn't i didn't know that documentary that That's terrible. Is that ever going to get better? Or is she just permanently screwed like that? I'm not, she did not feel hopeful. It was sort of like, it was, it was sort of covering like all kinds of sort of context. It wasn't a happy ending.

It was just like a, it was sort of showing many different context sports athletes and just sort of the varying degrees in which like these like repetitive head impacts kind of like we're affecting people. Cause it doesn't seem like an across the board thing with heading the soccer ball. At least I'm not, I didn't know about that, but that was like the first time I saw it. And I was like,

that makes sense. Yeah. Hey, he got his bell rung. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's all. That's all.

He just got his bell rung. Get back up there, man. Back up there, man. This kid can take a lick and keep on ticking. Those stars you're seeing, that's your future, kid, when you're a superstar. Lean into it.

Lean into it. Oh, man. It's so brutal. Yeah. By the way, I can't navigate my neighborhood without GPS, but that's another story. We'll talk about that another time. Maybe I need a documentary crew following me around. Let's take a quick break and

we'll be right back. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and LA-based Shekinah Church, an alleged cult that has impacted members for over two decades. Jessica and I will delve into the hidden truths between high control groups and interview dancers, church members, and others whose lives and careers have been impacted, just like mine. Through powerful, in-depth interviews with former members and new, chilling firsthand accounts, the series will illuminate untold

and extremely necessary perspectives. Forgive Me For I Have Followed will be more than an exploration. It's a vital revelation aimed at ensuring these types of abuses never happen again. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions, like how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job?

Girl, yes. Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Saner. The only difference between the person we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Saner. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person

who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It was December 2019 when the story blew up. In Green Bay, Wisconsin, former Packers star Kabir Bajabiamila caught up in a bizarre situation. Former Packers star Kabir Bajabiamila caught up in a bizarre situation.

KGB explaining what he believes led to the arrest of his friends at a children's Christmas play. A family man, former NFL player, devout Christian, now cut off from his family and connected to a strange arrest. I am going to share my journey of how I went from Christianity to now a Hebrew Israelite. I got swept up in Kabir's journey, but this was only the beginning. In a story about faith and football, the search for meaning away from the gridiron and the consequences for everyone involved. You mix homesteading with guns and church and a little bit of the spice of conspiracy theories that we liked. Voila!

You got straight away. I felt like I was living in North Korea, but of conspiracy theories that we liked. Voila! You got straight away. I felt like I was living in North Korea, but worse, if that's possible. Listen to Spiraled on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. We're back. We're back. And this Taylor Swift story just won't quit. People have some theories as to how the Chiefs made it to the Super Bowl. I mean, the Chiefs in the Super Bowl, they've made it only four of the last five Super Bowls. How could they have possibly gotten here?

I was going to say, I mean, I'm not an NFL fan, but like at the beginning of the season, would it have been absolutely absurd to think that the Chiefs would have gotten close to being in the Super Bowl? No, they would have been the favorite or one of the favorites. They won the fucking championship last year. Exactly. I love that. They're like, yo, man, this whole fucking shit's engineered. So we touched on the frantic screamings of the right after the Chiefs booked their ticket to the Super Bowl. And, you know, we talked about all these conspiracies that came out. Vivek Ramaswamy was like, you'll see this completely fake,

propped up, engineered duo to help Joe Byron. You'll see the impact it'll have in a few months. And now it's only gotten like more momentum since then. I thought it would just be like, OK, in passing, like you just want to say something about the fear of Taylor Swift. But on Newsmax, they really went to an interesting level with a combination of satanic panic and anti-Semitism, george soros bookie man kind of shit allison steinberg who has a show on newsmax uh regurgitated basically a combination of ramaswami's tweet like almost word for word which is very weird i was like you're saying the vivek ramaswami tweet but

pretend you're passing it off as your own words and also a combination of like the debunked pentagon nato psyop where taylor swift was seen as an asset that we also talked about a couple weeks ago, where that was merely like just not even it was hypothetical about how a celebrity would use their influence on the Internet. And I think they also talked to you some Game of Thrones characters as an example. But anyway, let's just allow her to first let people know how like what's really going on here. What are the Democrats really trying? What's their end game here with all this Taylor Swift crap? Guys buy and can't seem to turn off. The question is, with the wide open border and millions of illegals pouring in daily,

the stealing of the ballot boxes and censoring conservative news and Republican incumbents being removed from the ballot and financing Nikkioring conservative news and Republican incumbents being removed from the ballot and financing Nikki Haley and so on. Why do the powers that be need this dynamic duo to sway the vote? Don't they have enough dirty tricks up their sleeves as it is? Think about it. If Taylor Swift is really owned by Soros, we might actually have a rare chance to unite against him using Taylor Swift as the Trojan horse. Instead of pushing the alphabet mafia and murdering of babies to her fans, she should be warning about the dangers of the corrupt elites.

Anyway, goes on there. This all has to do with the fact that Soros apparently was like, or one of his companies was an investor in buying her catalog. Yeah, what's crazy is that Taylor Swift also posted something once that was kind of dog whistling about Soros and people were like, oh man, like Taylor, why didn't they show that clip? Yeah. She's on your side. Kind of. She knows what's up. We just heard about the new world order. Yeah. So I don't know like what exactly, you know, that was her take. Um, and then Greg Kelly, who we also talked about a couple, like, I think last week when Trump had misidentified Nikki Haley as Nancy Pelosi, and he was like, actually, he was deploying his senility tactically to highlight Pelosi's role in January 6 and really spun that shit. and really spun that shit.

He's trying a more, as I would say, Christ-based attack on Taylor Swift and why she needs to be ignored or at least people need to be warned about H-E-double hockey sticks if you go down this road with Taylor. I kind of have a problem, though, with the hardcore Taylor Swift fans. They are totally over the top

worshiping this woman. Have you seen any of the pictures i've of her in concert i wouldn't go myself i don't do that kind of thing anymore but i think what they call it is they're elevating her to an idol idolatry this is a little bit what idolatry i think looks like and you're not supposed to do that in fact if you look it up in the bible it's a sin so i don't like that you're not supposed to do that i like how he just lost the train of thought he just so he acts like he just invented the term like pop idol there like where he just heard it for the first time like we've i don't know i'm really making a lot

of sense to me. Like, wow. You fear that. Yeah. Are you worried about the state of your soul in eternity, Molly? Well, it's like pop idols. And I was like, wow, worshiping false idols. Yeah.

Go on. Damn. Go on, Greg Kelly. That's what I'm saying. It's like, sir, y'all worship at the altar of Donald Trump. Well, it's also funny that they're like, yeah, normally we like football, but now

football's bad. We love the racist name, the problematically named football team from Missouri. Right. And the white guy. They're like this Kansas City team with the racist name is too woke.

Right. Right. I think they're right to connect this to idolatry and the idea that Taylor Swift and like big stars have come to replace. We've talked about this idea before, but like the size and fervor with which people are devoted to their favorite musicians. Like we saw a bunch of people like driving their favorite musician to like number one, like voting, basically just like playing their songs over and over again as a form of devotion to like, I think it was Britney Spears over the weekend. And Nicki too.

But like that is a new yeah and then nikki obviously yeah but look jesus fans of jesus are the original barbs yeah right yeah but that has gone as that has gone down and as more and more people identify as like no religion this is kind of what has come in to replace it. Like Star Wars fandom, Taylor Swift fandom. And I don't think they're wrong. I just think they're wrong to be so upset about it because they're doing the exact same thing with Donald Trump. People shouldn't worship famous people,

but they're like, you're worshiping the wrong famous people. Worship this fuck face please right you worship our yeah no i i know because i saw people too being like what i'm shocked why don't maga people love taylor swift and travis kelsey the all-american prom queen and king kind of thing but you know it's also travis kelsey did a did a vaccine commercial. You mean Mr. Pfizer. He's Mr. Pfizer. That's what they call him, yeah.

So they do think this is kind of a brand alignment. Now, I'm going to put on my tinfoil hat here. Go ahead. There are people who do think the Taylor and Travis thing is sort of a PR stunt. Sure. They're moving really fast. That wouldn't surprise me. Well, I'll tell you my real opinion, my non-crazy real opinion.

Okay. Is that she's trying to get back at her ex-boyfriend. Which one? The racist guy? No, it's Joe Alwyn, the British guy. Oh, okay. She was in a relationship. Not the racist guy. She was in a relationship. That was her first attempt to get back at the boyfriend.

She was in a relationship for six years that she thought I think was going to culminate in marriage. And then instead he dumped her and she's very hurt, but she's also Taylor Swift. So she's like, I'm going to use my huge public platform to make him feel bad. she's like, I'm going to use my huge public platform to make him feel bad. And then instead, I think it's sort of maybe making that ex-boyfriend think he made the right decision because he was the one who didn't like all the publicity stuff that goes along with the Taylor Swift circus. And I think she's kind of acting out what she would like to be happening in her personal life. And her and Travissey are kind of because because like it makes sense everybody just everybody seeing all these taylor swift

friends like freaking out about them kissing on the field you know right after the game and being like he's gonna propose yeah when the chiefs win he's gonna propose on the field and then somebody else was like y'all they've been dating for four months right yeah right you know and like i do think her whole thing is this kind of fantasy image of like you know falling in love and and being like the perfect all-american gal but like she's gotta know on some level that like you can't marry somebody you've only been dating for four months even if america wants you to yeah that's already like we already know what that album sounds like like rushing it after four months kind of shit but that just seems like a thing you do after you've been in a long

ass relationship that you thought you were going to be settled down and then you're like okay i'm ready to be fucking settled down who's around like who's the next person yeah like i'm ready to get married and and that guy didn't want to marry me so like oh this football player might want to marry me because as a brand alignment it makes a lot of sense for both of us and uh he's a athlete who might want to retire and then he could be mr taylor swift and he seems to be the first of her boyfriends ever who really likes being mr taylor swift which is a big thing she needs in somebody is that they have to be willing to like be a fucking idiot for her publicly you know for sure she doesn't want a private relationship she wants a public relationship,

and he's a football star. Yeah. I think that's one of the unique skills that she has is that she is a public figure, like, to her core, right? There's no part of her that is like, I'm secretly a private person, but I'm, like, playing this role. I think that, like, I'm secretly a private person, but I'm like playing this role.

I think that like any feelings she has for him are like tied up with understanding what that would like. I feel like she's camera aware when she's in a room by herself. Yes, definitely. And I think she's very insecure. And so she needs everybody to see that a man wants to kiss her in front of everybody. You know, I think you don't get that famous unless you're seeking validation. She seems like she's seeking the public's validation of like, yeah, I'm awesome. Right.

Everybody wants me to be their girlfriend because I'm the best. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. With the Republicans Republicans too, like it seems like a lot of this, I mean,

and that analysis, I wish they would do that. They like starting to be like just reading her to be like, that's how they're going to get her to go the other way. They're like, we know what's up, Taylor.

Like you want this to work so bad. No, I mean, I know what's up, which is I think she wants Joe Alwyn to see these clips of her like, you know, spinning around on the field, kissing this other guy and be like, damn, I fucked up. Right. You know, he's like English.

He's like, there's only one football love. Yeah. And she's like, do you like this? How's this, Joe? He did something amazing, which is that on her birthday, when everybody was like expecting him to look, you know, looking to see if he would post something on her birthday. She was like expecting him to look, you know, looking to see if he would post something on her birthday. He posted a pro-Palestine thing. That was, oh, wow. Just because he knew there'd be so much attention. Joe Alwyn?

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Like, I think he's, you know, people are also like, oh, he kind of like tamped down that part of her that's like needs the validation all the time. And that's why she was kind of quiet for a few years and then when they broke up it's like the part of her that needs that public exposure just went crazy and right and it's happened before where she's gotten so overexposed that people are like sick of her and she's definitely headed that direction again no matter what so but we just need it to last till november and then

go back into the shadows if the team loses if they don't get to the super bowl and they don't win the super bowl like that relationship's over i know right are they taking are people taking prop bets she leaves him for the quarterback of the 49ers. No, I mean, I think she's also doing, I do think this was sort of a publicist setup in the first place, you know? That they were like, he allegedly was trying to get a famous girlfriend all year and was hitting up Megan Thee Stallion, apparently.

Wow. Yeah, like he was allegedly trying to become famous has this publicist that's why he hosted snl he wanted to be a name brand and dating taylor swift incredible way for everyone to do that so i think even if they are a little bit playing it up for the cameras like they seem to like each other enough, you know? A plus to that publicist. I think it's like they, it's been pointed out that they both date, like they're not each other's usual types.

Sure. She dates little British guys. I mean, Molly Lambert, one of the great profilers and thinkers on celebrity, we're so lucky to have you for this conversation. I did not know about the Travis Kelsey, the idea that Travis Kelsey was like on a Make Me Famous tour and even considered dating Megan Thee Stallion for a while. Is that like Dumas or where is that coming from? I mean, yeah, basically, you know. You have your sources.

Yeah. I have my sources. Sure. Yeah, I mean, people said there's somebody else he was trying to date. People said basically he was looking to become a household name. He's got a podcast, as we all know, with his brother. He's trying to become a sports personality who's more, you know, who's famous on top of being an athlete. a sports personality who's more, you know, who's famous on top of being an athlete so that when he's not in the NFL anymore, he can be like a famous sports personality who's on TV. That's

why he hosted SNL because he wants people to think, oh, he's funny for an athlete. He's kind of cool for an athlete. He's smart for a football player. Honestly, his podcast is pretty funny. Well, I mean, yeah, look. I haven't listened to it. Oh, Jack, you simply must. I like to dip into athlete podcasts. I listened to Tom Brady's podcast once because how I imagined it in my head was Tom Brady being like, Tom Brady, brain don't work so good.

Right. Mouth work, fine. But, you know, he said stuff about football he kind of had i was like oh he's got i guess i've never heard him talk he just looks like such a dummy that i assumed he would sound like one right travis kelsey is like i'm cool for a football player i'm not like the other players he's not like the other players he's funny he was good on snl also but like it's definitely like you, there's managers and agents involved in this. That part's not made up.

Yeah, right, right, right. Yeah, because I mean, like, you know that publicists and stuff will be like, here's a menu of options to keep you in the news. Which one would you like to do? You know what I mean? you like to do you know yeah and i think her her first attempt to get back at the ex-boyfriend which was dating maddie healy from the 1975 like didn't work and blew up in everybody's face kind of because he kept saying out-of-pocket things unclear how their relationship ended either she dropped him because of the ice spice stuff or he just disappeared because the heat got too hot and then comes this opportunity to date a football player who is very famous and all-american and she's obsessed with looking like like she can keep a man

that's like her main because people that are she's never been in therapy famously and i saw you know people that are her fans saying oh well you know she's broke got out of this six-year relationship she should really take some time to work on herself before she gets in a serious relationship again she should like you know be with herself be with see what she wants and she doesn't do that she She doesn't fucking do that. She was like. She just conquers the world. She just needs a boyfriend because she needs everyone to know that she's like hot and desirable. And that's the way that she conveys it to the world because she's like the most heteronormative person on earth. You know, she's like, no one will know I'm hot unless I'm dating a big, hot football player.

This big chunk of beef, man. Yeah. I mean, I think she's like addicted to the idea of being in love to an extent that maybe it doesn't even really matter who the guy is, you know, which I think is a lot of people are just kind of like, well, I want to be married. So who who's going to marry me? Right. I mean, just just this like with the whole obsession with the right on taylor it's like

really i'm still trying to figure out like what the fuck is going on that's what's funny is like her fans are like wow you know fairy tale love she never gives up on love and now she and travis are in love right wing people are like she's a succubus she's an unmarried woman in her 30s and she's all used up and her eggs are dying that's what i saw from the right wing was being like she encourages abortions and he's mr vaccine and together they're leading people away from the light of christ over to the dark side yeah the dark side of woke woke ism. And they're like and they're like, you guys can't use this all American bullshit. That's our thing.

Right. I mean, a lot of the angst seems to be coming from this poll to recently came out that said 18 percent of voters, not just Taylor Swift fans of voters, said they would probably support whoever Taylor Swift supported. fans of voters said they would probably support whoever Taylor Swift supported. And then it also said that 17% would be put off by a candidate that Swift supported. So like on Fox, you're like, well, that just cancels each other out. So we don't have to worry about this. We don't have to worry about this, but I don't, I mean, whatever that's there, there's like this really interesting fear. And like, I feel like this desperation about talking about it, it feels like twofold, right? One is they're hell bent on winning by any means in November. So anything that could introduce any sort of wobble to their confidence is like fucking existential.

Because they absolutely, like you see all the fucking think tanks going all in on Project 2025 and being ready to be like, yeah, let's just fucking flip the switch on the dark side like this November. Yeah. And she also used to stay out of it. That was like the thing was she used to not ever say anything about politics because allegedly her dad is like a Trump voter, you know, and she didn't want to stir the pot. And so so then she got attacked from all sides when she wasn't saying anything where people are like, oh, it's because she's secretly Trump voter. It's because she is a Biden voter, but doesn't want her Trump voter fans to know that because it'll affect album sales. But doesn't seem to have done anything. No, I mean, I think, you know, she came out and said a couple of capitulated. Yeah, she said.

Yeah. She says as little as she possibly can for it not to be a thing. Yeah. Right. But you can't say nothing and have it not be a thing. She knows a lot of her fans are these kind of like Christian Karens, too, where she's like, they don't need to know that I'm like an adult city girl who believes in abortion because then they won't maybe buy my records.

But I think they will buy her records anyway and i think she did say something a little bit pro-choice and like a maybe even a little bit pro-palestine so do we think there's never been a like i it's always seemed like very out of touch to me that the democratic party is so i i don't even know if it's a democratic party or if it's just the mainstream media that emphasizes like well the democrats have katie perry like performing at their you know campaign event so well that's part of it is like advantage the way that they're just completely putting everything on pop culture and being like it has always been like idiotic like the pokemon go to the polls like like no give us health care give us fucking health care right the fact that

they're like no we need to get a team of famous people to endorse this candidate because that's all anybody cares about it feels very much like the you know playlist politics where it's just like no nobody cares what's on your playlist Give us any actionable change that'll improve people's lives because everybody's fucking struggling and miserable. Yeah. Which maybe is a good segue over to Elmo. Yeah. But I mean, like, I think just like the last thing,

I think this is also just a perfect opportunity for the right-wing media to not talk about all the L's Trump's been taking in court recently because they don't want to talk about the $83 million judgment that was awarded to Eugene Carroll. And now this week, we're going to find out what he's going to owe for all the fraudulent BS with the fucking Trump organization.

And Letitia James is seeking $370 million. So this dude could be close to a half billion dollars in the hole. Yeah, but he might still be president and they might of course and they might use that to be like oh they're coming for him because he's too powerful you know they're trying to take him down and now he's the underdog which is like how he operates is convincing a bunch of privileged people that they're the underdog right i mean he kind of is you know if you really think about it you know i've just just been he's a fighter with that he's a fighter in down but never out till the end but yeah i think again it's just there's always like an aversion to talk about like

whatever's happening with him in a negative sense i feel like a lot of this swift stuff like while it a lot of people are like oh they're so fucking scared of taylor so if i'm like they also don't want to talk about the news, too. So this is like a good thing just to be like, you know, getting people on like an anti-Swift thing. Oh, yeah. Maybe it is a psyop, but from the right. Yeah, seriously. That would be very them to like be screaming about a psyop that they are actually conducting. Yeah.

As they're screaming about the psyop. Yeah. That's kind of their move. All right, let's take a quick break and we'll come back and talk about how everyone's doing. We'll be right back. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed.

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And we're back. We're back. And, you know, we've been covering, this show's been, we've been doing this daily show for a long time and, you know, covering the incredibly consistent energy pushing back against ideas like defund the police and abolitionism coming from places like the New York Times, you know, places that coming into adulthood, I had been told were like liberal or progressive. And it feels like there's a lot of parts of the mainstream media that have kind of pushed past the idea of defunding the police like it's settled law among people that like defund the police was bad politics like everybody heard james carville say it and they're like well i guess guess that's true if that old swamp creature says it that old snake say it then i don't like Yeah, that's a backwards idea. But I'd just be curious to hear from you on, like, how are you seeing progress made in the fight for abolishing the current system of, like, policing and human caging?

Maybe just talking about, like, what is abolitionism currently as you see it? And what are the areas that abolitionists are currently working on? I mean, yeah, I would say it's incredibly broad. Abolitionism, you know, people have multiple understandings of it. But the one I worked from is abolitionism is the fight to end enslavement, incarceration, and exploitation of people that is based in the model of chattel slavery and so what we are in is a continuation of that of chattel slavery and that exploitation of people in the imprisonment and enslavement of people and we see it in the ways in which our systems have built now that is wrong because we actually see that in our mental health system

we see this in our quote-unquote child welfare system and we see that in our mental health system. We see this in our quote unquote child welfare system and we see it in our incarceration systems, in our school systems. And so there are a lot of different places to fight this and say, people have the right to their own autonomy. We don't have the right to say that only certain people deserve freedom, deserve liberation, deserve a second

chance, deserve to learn and grow and change and be a part of community. And that we will look at the problems we face as a community and with the fundamental belief that as a community, we can solve it because these problems don't exist in a vacuum. If these problems are rooted in society and community and our systems, then we can solve them. And I think that that is fundamental to this work. And so, you know, a lot of people will try to fight that and say, you know, with fear mongering, well, if there's no cops tomorrow, what are you going to do? As if there isn't a process, isn't a system. And often I would say that fear-mongering glazes over how incredibly brutal the reality is, right? Which is that we have a system that

does nothing to deter harm or crime, that is stealing away large percentages of our population, that is leading to the deaths of hundreds, if not thousands of people by police officers every year, that is leading to the thefts of children from Black, Brown, and Indigenous homes, that is leading to the forced treatment and incarceration of mentally ill people. And we're not safer.'re no safer right and so this idea that trying something new would be worse how much then worse yeah right than this yeah yeah it's a system that like insert you know exports brutality into the world that we live in. Right. And reinforces societal inequities that create brutality, that create harm and violence. And, you know, and I think that's why we're forced at all of these, you know, stories and cop shows of if it weren't for a cop, you know,

and I think one of the most important things that was said to me by janae khan years back we were talking and they said you know cops can't prevent crime they can only respond after it's happened and yet we act as if that's the opposite like you can't you know unharm someone with a police officer and if anything they're showing up and creating a whole new level of crime and so this idea that it would make us safer just doesn't make any sense and And so I think it's important to recognize that there's something so deeply hopeful and beautiful in abolitionism in that fundamentally it believes in people. It believes that we can actually solve this, that no one is irredeemable, that we can look at societal issues and address them and change the way that we relate toemable, that we can look at societal issues and address them and change the

way that we relate to each other, that we can heal each other. And that yes, we can address safety at the same time. And it doesn't mean it's perfect, but oh my goodness, what we have right now is causing more harm than good. And so that means that there's so many different ways in which we can do this work. And you can pick different spots. And yeah, it can seem like we'll never get there, right? That we're not going to have a time where there aren't policing. But every time that we can kind of remove the tasks given to policing and carceral systems, every time that we can dismantle pieces of it and strengthen alternatives, we're doing really important abolitionist work. And we can do that and still say, this shouldn't exist. So I always say that, like, it is abolitionist to say, I don't want cops in schools. It's abolitionist to say that, you know, people need to be given alternatives to incarceration. It is abolitionist to say that people shouldn't be given, you know, forced treatment for mental health issues against their will.

It is abolitionist to do all of these. And I can say that, work for it and saying, I don't want any cops. You know, I can say that, right. While also working towards these things that are available to me right now. I mean, yeah, I think especially when it relates to policing, right. And we like you said, the status quo is violence, is dysfunction, is increased harm. It's not solution based. It's not about identifying root causes. Yet so many people are so frightened to make the change that like the fear instantly turns like passionate defenses of the status quo. So then the next thing that you get offered, especially from legislators, politicians, is our reforms. Right. And we talk a lot about reform is not we're just we're just you're just

putting different a different coat of paint on the same problem. How do you sort of like balance? Obviously, the need for these kinds of like deeper changes, or at least different, like different kind of emphasis, alongside like the reforms, because a lot of the times you get these sort of these debates now where people are like, well, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. They're saying they're telling cops to use a slightly lighter baton or something. And we're supposed to be like, Oh, okay. Yes, sure. But like, how do we sort of in a world where if people are so focused and able to say like, no, like a lot of our crime is because of desperation or lack of support. That's what we need to be doing. I

don't want to hear about anything unless I mean, talk to me when we're getting rid of qualified immunity or something like that. How do you how should people sort of like look at this balance of understanding what glacial incremental sort of reform can do versus trying to like, for lack of a better word, hope for something revolutionary, something different, something that's sort of upending the status quo? That's a great question. And it is something that we talk about in the book. It's so vital that we understand the difference between like true liberation, liberatory work and harm reduction and recognize what's neither. Because a lot of what we say is police reform is neither harm reduction or liberatory work. And we have to say at least give us some harm reduction, right? And so it's really important to listen to the people most impacted by it and the people who are actually, you know, experts on this from the perspective of communities harmed,

right? And say, no, this doesn't work. And we know this doesn't work and listen to that and be really, really clear because people will sell you anything and call it revolutionary. And then we will, they'll label, you know, harm reduction as like this huge attack on the system. And we're not even getting to like the, the meat of it. Harm reduction matters, absolutely matters. Because the truth is, is if we have these long-term big goals, we have to be alive to get there. But that means we have to be honest about what it is. And so, you know, when, first of all, if it's offered to us by the system, throw it away. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Throw it away. We've got an idea. Oh, okay. We don't want that, right? We have to listen and listen to the communities who've been building that, right? You got to listen. We have to listen and listen to the communities who've been building alternatives, right? Because communities, when we build alternatives, some of those are revolutionary. Some of those are harm reduction, right? And so we already kind of know what direction works and what direction doesn't. And so when it comes to issues that are

as big as like policing and say, we would hate to, you know, we don't want this system here, as big as policing and saying we don't want this system here. Harm reduction would be things like, one, getting police officers out of schools. The system still exists, but we don't need the officers in schools. Studies have shown time and time again that it leads to an increase in arrests of Black and Brown and Indigenous and disabled students with no actual reduction in harm. and brown and indigenous and disabled students with no actual reduction in harm. And it's not, and whether they're, you know, arrested has no ties to violence in schools, drugs in schools, or anything like that. It's just, do you have black students? Do you have cops? Now we have more black students arrested. So we know it doesn't work, right? So harm reduction would be,

you know, getting them out. And that isn't, you know, it's an abolitionist practice in that it is, you know, getting them out, but it's not getting rid of the system. Other ones would be, you know, before you start referring, making calls, kicking kids out of school and getting them in this, in these pipelines, you know, what, who, who oversees that, right? Who approves that? What records do you have? Whatever things are you trying first? Those are all things that are really important to look at while saying at while recognizing if the system still stays in place, it's not getting rid of the system. And so we can work towards that, push towards that, don't accept anything that re-entrenches the system. And so

retraining always re-entrenches the system. Retraining is never going to be a harm reduction. It's just putting more money into a system and asking, you know, and we've shown that they don't come out, you know, gentler, kinder, more understanding of community. They come out with more police officers, you know, and they come out with more levels of excuses for why they're doing what they're doing. And so just listening to community on that is really, really vital. But when it comes to every day, and if you're looking at smaller things we can do, you know, if you live in an area that has cash bail programs, getting rid of cash bail is one of the most vital things you can do right now, right? for their incarceration if they work out a deal and they want to go in early so that they aren't away from their family for three years and maybe six months. They have to pay for every day that they're in there. And so, you know, things like that are wild, classist, racist, and getting rid

of that doesn't get rid of the system. But it's also a really, really important step that we can take right now to reduce the numbers of people caught up in these systems and how long they're caught up in them. And that gives us what we need, the strength we need in community to keep fighting. Just how do you think about the pushback from the mainstream media? Just that's been something that I've tried to get my head around, trying to picture the editorial meetings at these major journalistic institutions where they decide, let's go with this story where the police are the only source for the information. Do you think of that as being put in place by powers like architecturally structured to put this power in place? Because I also feel like there's also some desire for that narrative coming from below also,

like from the readership. And I'm just wondering, like, how you think about that? Does that inform how you approach people when you're trying to talk to them about, you know, the carceral system and, you know, things like that? There's this big infrastructure of power and money that is like trying to keep these institutions in place. But then there's also people who are just like really quick to believe the bullshit stories. And I don't know if it's because that's what they've always had, if if people were, you know, if the reality of systemic oppression were laid bare for all people and the way in which people have been made to participate in the oppression of others was laid bare for all people, that people would decline to participate in that, especially if they were able to see how it impacts their own personal safety. No one is safe in a police state, whether or not we've been told we are, even if you have privilege. Only the very select few are, and often that is only for a limited time. But, you know, that is something that people don't want. And so that is

often kept from the people who are made to participate most, right? People with the most privilege. The reality of how unsafe we are is something that many of us can't escape, you know, and which is why we're often the first and most outspoken about trying to change it. But that unsafety exists for everyone and that culpability exists and people want to avoid it and people have been protected from it. And their, you know, their bellies are soft to it. You know what I mean? They haven't built up that tolerance for it and have been told that they would fall apart if they knew the reality, that they couldn't handle it. And they're fed a constant diet of fear. fear of this danger that is pumped into people right we look at these shows where it's just this random person gets a thirst for blood and is out murdering people who's gonna come help you or you know like this you know gang violence where the gang leaders are just soulless creatures who

popped out of nowhere and they're gonna take over your city if you don't you know have this people are fed that and people who don't have that firsthand experience with the reality of these systems and are living this completely alternate reality and are being told no other reality exists that, you know, you, you would feel comfortable calling a cop, knowing they could help you get your cat out of a tree or whatever, and you'd be safe and everyone would, because that's your reality. Challenging that makes the world terrifying, right? It can make the world seem really terrifying.

Challenging how you've been made a part of it can seem really terrifying. It can make you feel really powerless in a way that, you know, many of us have never had the luxury of avoiding. And people will put up walls around that. And it has little to do with intent. It has, you can say you care, you know, and you love, but if you're not actively challenging these ideas and willing to sit with that discomfort, then you'll have a problem. And people don't want to hear it, right? People really don't want to hear it. They don't want it to land on their doorstep. If they are thinking about things like police brutality, they want the name of the one cop that they can yell at and blame because if it's a system and they're paying taxes into that system, if they've been supporting that system, if they voted for the candidate who said they'll bring law and order and safety to their area, knowing that that meant it would increase cops in black and brown communities, then there's a whole level of culpability. And if that thing that they've been pouring money and effort into would endanger their disabled child, they don't want to know. They don't want that. They don't

want that reality. And so it's really important that we challenge it while also showing that people are building alternatives. And like idea that we could build something else is kept from a lot of people who've never had to and so it's always wild to me when people say what are you going to do you know what are you going to do if someone rates you that's that's the thing people say a lot yeah right especially as women people weaponize that against me and i'm like first of all i'm absolutely a survivor of sexual assault, as many women have been. And please don't do anything, right? And my healing, my sense of safety came from the practices that like my black and brown community had to build to try to address this because we always knew that we weren't going to find safety in the system and we weren't going

to find repair in the system. And so, you know, those kinds of ideas, these things that are thrown out, erases the fact that right now, you know, a large segment of Black, Brown, and Indigenous populations, queer and trans populations, absolutely know that they could never find safety in our systems.

And they have to build elsewhere, and they have been. But that is completely erased. The ways in which we solve conflict is erased. The ways in which we ensure safety is erased. The way in which we heal each other and ourselves has been erased. And it all comes down to you have to trust this person with a gun. Nothing else has been done. Nothing else can work. And so media, I think, plays a huge part in that. They're invested in that because one, they personally don't want to investigate that. And I've talked with editors, you know, as a writer who don't personally want to investigate it. They want to keep it in a comfortable place for them, but also they have funders who are systemically, you know, invested

in this. And there is a real backlash for people publicly taking a stand and saying, we're going to address the real roots of this. People have been made to pay. And I do think that people are afraid of that and afraid of challenging those assumptions. Yeah. I think one of the most, like one of sort of inspiring passages for me, or just to, just to kind of put everything into perspective, right. Cause we started off being like like revolution just feel like this scary idea. And like, even though I know, like we need to actually look out for everybody, true liberation is only when every single person

is liberated. Like even if they don't look like me or not part of my community, that there was, I think it was Mariam Kaba who you were saying, like what's really put this into perspective was like, it's not about like these big things, right? It's like, and I might be butchering the quote,

but it's just about like these big things, right? It's like, and I might be butchering the quote, but it's just about taking out, removing just the bricks of like these oppressive systems. It doesn't have to be a wrecking ball type moment because if everybody's taken a brick out one by one for themselves, shit will start crumbling. That's just, there's just no way for something structurally to keep its structural integrity if we're always like just kind of picking away at it and i think that's a really

important message for i think and i really encourage our listeners to to really uh to check your book out because we are in such a time right now where i feel like everyone feels like they're banging their heads against a wall and they're like i'm seeing this happen right now am i like but we're not doing the right things and i I think it really is an empowering message a, to see these other stories of people who a lot of are starting from absolute powerlessness and then opening the door to something really, really substantive and really monumental without necessarily that being the initial intention of it, of just, it was more just about advocating for yourself. So I really thank you for for putting all of these stories together and your words around it. Because as someone who's done, like worked from all over the political spectrum,

from being a lobbyist to being like in the streets and things like that, I've always sort of grappled with these feelings of like, where my power lies, or how I can actually exercise that and what it, what it means to be revolutionary or not. And I think it makes it a very accessible way. And I think is very powerful. I think for people to understand that it's just about these small actions. Cause they all like, we can't just think we can't, we have to get out of like this superhero mentality of them. Like I'm going to figure it out by myself right now, rather than can I contribute to a community that's doing well? Can I from my space say, you know what, maybe we don't need funding that's contingent upon

us interacting with the police to keep our nonprofit going, et cetera, et cetera. So, yeah, I just, again, I feel like thank you for putting this book out. And yeah, really great to just be able to speak with you today. It's just been really eye opening. And I'm sure our listeners have had the same experience, too. Yeah, truly great to just be able to speak with you today. It's just been really eye-opening, and I'm sure our listeners have had the same experience too. Yeah, truly a pleasure. All right, that's going to do it for this week's weekly Zeitgeist. Please like and review the show if you like the show. It means the world to Miles.

He needs your validation, folks. I hope you're having a great weekend, and I will talk to you Monday. Bye. Thank you. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series, Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me for I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and Shekinah Church. Listen to Forgive Me for I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Keri Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports.

Listen to The Making of a Rivalry, Caitlin Clark vs. Angel Reese on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. I'm Keri Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry, Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's basketball. And on this new season, we'll cover all things sports and culture. Listen to Naked Sports on

the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio apps, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by Diet Coke.