The Daily Zeitgeist - Weekly Zeitgeist 405 (Best of 10/27/31 - 10/31/25)

Episode Date: November 2, 2025

The weekly round-up of the best moments from DZ's season 412 (10/27/31 - 10/31/25)See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Hello, America's sweetheart Johnny Knoxville here. I want to tell you about my new true crime podcast, Crimeless, Hillbilly Heist, from Smartless Media, campside media, and big money players. It's a wild tale about a gang of high-functioning nitwits who somehow pulled off America's third largest cash heist. Kind of like Robin Hood, except for the part where he's still,

from the rich and gifts to the poor, I'm not that generous. It's a damn near inspiring true story for anyone out there who's ever shot for the moon, then just totally muffed up the landing. They stole $17 million that had not bought a ticket

to help him escape. So we're saying like, oh God, what do we do? What do we do? That was dumb. People do not follow my example. Listen to Crimless, Hillbilly Heist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. I live below a cult leader and I fear I've angered her.

Wait a minute, Sophia. How do you know she's a cult leader? Well, Dakota, luckily it's I'm not afraid of a scary story week on the OK Storytime podcast. So we'll find out soon. This person writes, My neighbor has been blasting music every day and doing dirt rituals. And now my ceiling is collapsing. I try to report them, but things keep getting weirder.

I think they might be part of a cult. Hold up. Real life cult? And what is a dirt ritual? No clue, Dakota. Find out how it ends. Listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Cal Penn.

And on my new podcast, here we go again. We'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? Each week, I'm calling up my friends like Bill Nye, Lily Singh, and Pete Buttigieg to talk about everything from the space race to movie remakes to psychedelics. the way, are you high? Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now, but my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and

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Hello, the internet, and welcome to this episode of the weekly zeitgeist. These are some of our favorite segments from this week, all edited together into one non-stop infotainment laugh stravaganza. Uh, yeah. So without further ado, here is the weekly zeitgeist. Miles, we're thrilled to be joined in our third seat once again by the director, journalist, and host behind one of the great podcasts. It is about, as I think he put it the first time he was on,

the fact that the world is queerer than many of us suppose indeed queerer, the many of us can suppose. It's called Otherworld. He's called Jack Wagner! To be clear, I did not say that, but thank you for having me on the show. It's a pleasure, as always, to be here. I did not call my show queer.

And if I did, it would be in a positive way. Yes, yeah, yeah, yes. Wait, where did you get that fake quote? I thought, man, did you actually think I said that? I had that quote, and maybe it was something that I thought was, I think it was being used to describe the paranormal.

Wait, that's me. I said that. It's giving... It's giving pre-1900. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. But I'll take it. I'll take it's a good quote. It's a good quote.

It's a great quote that I think sums up some of my favorite parts of your podcast. Although you should start doing that to every guest is kind of like... Just make a... Yeah. ...and see what they do with it. Yeah. If it's a good quote, like, I mean, sometimes you might want to take credit. Why not?

You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jack, thank you so much for coming back. You've had many travels and travails since you were last on. We wanted to have you on the spookiest of weeks. Thank you. Your podcast is so good. We're going to end up just being like, man, you remember that episode?

That was crazy, bro. And sometimes I might not remember it, which is the craziest part. Is that true? Is that real, dude? What is something from your search history that's revealing about who you are? Yeah. I'm going to do it. Yeah. What's something from your search history?

Tunk. Why is this embarrassing? No, I'm going to answer the question. It doesn't seem like a conscience. Get his ass, Miles. Jeez. Where's mommy tonight? No, my mom.

I wrote this all by myself. We're playing the role of the two bullies from hocus pocus. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's carved into the back of my head. Dude, it's not Ernie. It's ice. Man, the way they took his sneakers, bro. That was fucked up.

I was, I don't like that. I'm like, bro, don't let them take one. The second he's our. hey, let me try them on. I'm like, bro, you need to either carry a blade on you or just bike the fuck off. Don't let them take your shoes. Look, he's wearing some new cross-trainer's.

I was like, oh, so you got Nike to let you do this if you used the appropriate. Someone's a Bo Jackson fan talking about cross-trainers. And they somehow managed to fit a guy who was clearly a 33-year-old playing a teenager. Sorry to keep bringing up hocus-pocus, but yeah, Victor and the Ted said, the parents did nothing.

Yeah, the parents do, well, no, the parents were like, he's probably not wearing shoes as a form of protest. They do, they do qualify as some of the worst parents in the history of movies. I don't know. Yeah, that is true. I don't know if that's, I don't know if it was like my house or just like an immigrant people,

a color, black thing. But if you didn't come home in the new fucking shoes that were bar for you, there was a full, sitting down spraining session to do an inquiry yeah fully anyway sorry also the wild that they were like he's not wearing shoes in the house what what's going on it's like you shouldn't wear shoes in the house he freaks disgusting americans anyway what's your search history asshole what's my shoe size yeah what's your shoe size asshole yeah get his ass spike get his ass ice ice Well, I'm at a 10, and then I'm currently sitting on a 10 shoe.

Oh, Google search was Tavern-style pizza because I'm doing a show in Chicago in December, and I know about the deep dish. And I'm getting there a day early to eat all day. So extra night of hotel not covered so I can eat my way through the-hotel, right? Yeah, of course, of course. Yeah, yeah, beautiful, beautiful building. It's a gorgeous, it's gorgeous. I actually, like, just, I barely in my room and not because I'm exploring the city. It's because I'm just staring at how beautiful the hotel is.

Yeah, that's what I did. Which is so nice. So, wait, you're getting there a date early to just get your fill of, like, all the Chicago, like, classics? These beefs. Oh, my God, Italian beef, yeah. These deep dishes and these, uh, and my friends from Chicago and he's like, you know, obviously, like, recommended the, the Piquads of the world. Sure.

But then it was like, we, we eat tavern style. aisle pizza is there. So which is a thin, thinner crust, crispy, and not cut in squares. I know you guys know this already. I'm explaining this to our. So does that game. We talk about Tava's pizza all the time. I just heard somebody reference it and didn't really have a great idea in my mind.

But I think I had some idea. But I actually got really into. If you didn't fucking cut me off, I wouldn't finish yet. Sorry. We're learning. Sorry. Go ahead. But keep talking.

No, dad. Tell us about your trip to Chicago. You don't talk. All right. Oh, Justin in the chat, Chicago Born and Bread, Aurelios, some of the best tavern-style pizza in the Chicago. There you go. Chicago land area. Stand up.

I didn't need to Google anything. I could have just emailed Justin for all this information. Wasting your time. He has asked that you stop doing that, but. Yeah, I know, I know. It's getting a little bit. It's getting really granular now. You're like, how many squares of toilet people.

I'm sorry for how I just treated you. That was crazy. I'm sorry. I'm sorry for my tone. No. You're forgiven, but I'm never forgetting. Victor, just a note here. never have Blake back on the show.

Okay. Well, once you tell me who Victor is, I'll apologize. Oh, you're just, I love Victor. You failed, you failed your fate. Fuck. I've, uh, speaking of, um, crossing boundaries, I've asked Victor to send me multiple pictures of his, uh, Victor's dog. So I love that dog.

Oh, yeah. Beautiful dog. Yeah, beautiful. Beautiful dog. Beautiful dog. Beautiful dog. Beautiful. Yeah.

Just trying to be a dog fan, trying to fit in with that. Yeah. It's a beautiful dog, one of the most beautiful, you know, some say it likes sex as much as I do. What? What the fuck are you talking? This dog can breathe underwater for five minutes. I don't think he knows what a dog is. The dog was frozen in ice, folks, in Times Square, and got out eventually.

That's David Blame, sir. No, no, that's the dog. Yeah, no, he's a nasty dog. David's a known Democrat. Where are we at now? Oh, so you googled it. Is it from material? Tavern style pizza.

Gargled some pizza. Yeah, I put it in a smoothie and I gargle it before I go to bed. I have this amazing voice. Tares out pizza is delicious. Yeah. It's really good. Also, are you going to go to Portillo's? Obviously, that's not like a unique.

That's like, you know, everyone goes to Portillo's. But the fucking roast beef and cheddar croissant sandwich is. Are you kidding me? Decadance. Okay. So no hip. I think that's a great piece of advice. No hip factor if you're going to go do this.

You know, so it's like, oh, everyone goes to Portillo's, then go to, then go. Yeah, you know, if everyone's going to just go. We don't have it here. So, yeah, I don't have it here. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I don't have to be Mr. Cool. Like, oh, I found like a hut, you know, underneath the Mississippi River somewhere, you know, like where they make the Chicago anyway. Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. Just so you know. If you're near the Mississippi, the mighty Mississippi. said you might have Yeah, yeah, it goes right through downtown Chicago and, but yeah, so that's what I was looking. I'm trying to figure out

what foods I'm getting myself into. So gonna do deep dish, of course, gonna do tavern style and, um, do a lot of like hack comedians just do like trolly Chicago food jokes? Like I feel like they go

and they look like a lot of things. I was like, hey, I just had it. We do. Just had one of you great hot dogs with ketchup all over it. Oh.

Yeah. Fucking kill that guy. I heard Lou Malnoughties is the best pizza in all of the land. For that reason, I do almost, I do almost always intentionally avoid like a local reference like that because if they've been to any comedy show, I'm sure every single or commenting on something in the room, you know, where if there's like a weird window, it's like, I'm sure that joke has been made 45,000 times. Hey, that's a weird window, huh? The crowd just goes insane. That lady did a backflip off. her table.

Yeah. It was crazy. Someone break the window. Kill it. It gave me the window. To kick out the window. Yeah. What is something you think is underrated, Douglas?

Okay. Underrated. This is my hot take. It's not too cultory, but New York City beaches. I think, you know, people are always talking shit about like, oh, Coney Islands dirty, Rockaway, this or that. I think they're awesome. totally underrated.

I go all the time, even when it's cold, to rock away. I feel like, I don't know. I feel like it's totally a little paradise out there. I've never, I've been to New York a lot, but I've never gone to the beach. I'm always curious because I see people at the beach. I see people with spaghetti on the beach. Yeah. Spaghetti on the beach.

Yeah, it's like a Dominican thing apparently. I kept seeing like narrow going, you were talking about eating spaghetti on the beaches out there. But what do you think, I guess I look at it from an L.A. perspective and I'm like, New York is not a beach place, but it's. Exactly. And there's part of me that's like great more for me when I hear stuff like that. So first off, water's cold in L.A. Water's cold in San Diego. Water's cold here. So anybody who's like, oh, well, you know, it's warmer out in California. You're like, sure, it's generally the air is warmer. But the water's still cold in both places. You're going to have to wear a wetsuit either way. But there's like a decent breakout here. It's a great cross-training for a lot of different type of waves. Like there's great food. Like there's great energy. And it's also got like a little DIY music scene by the beach. And I just feel like it's like definitely something that a lot of people haven't tapped into who live here. Especially, I mean, obviously during the warmer months, but even when it's not warm, just like getting out, being near the water,

there are whales that breach out on a rock away from like, it's like during. the fall. The whales come out. I've served when there's like porpoise like schools of porpoise out in New York and people just like are like, oh, New York City Beach, that's disgusting. I would never go. And I'm like, cool. Yeah. Because we're all thinking. It's like you walk off the beach and you have like three different syringes stuck into different parts of your body. Yeah. I'm just thinking of like the East River. Is that why people are just like, it's the East River. Right. Water dirty, New York. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's my shorthand. Also, some of the best tap water. New York City. Shout out to the Ashokan Reservoir.

Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, and maybe when the Ramones were going to rock away, maybe there was syringes in the water, but... Just from them. Just from them. Supplied explicitly by them. Yeah, I mean, it is... There's a book called The Power Broker

that is about, like, the building out of a lot of the beaches and the parkways and the attempt to democratize all of the things that New York has to offer by a horrible racist guy named Robert Moses. But it is cool to see, like, somebody was just, like, at a time when ambitious people went into doing public works projects and built that whole thing out, it is pretty inspiring and also a little depressing because it feels like it takes place in a different universe

than... For sure. Yeah, where we exist now and have to hope that, some tech billionaire tries to develop something in a place that we want to go. Maybe Robert Moses will get the Marvel treatment on a poster, too, if we're... Yeah. So when you're going to the beach of the winter, are you going to surf, or are you going, like, fully clothed to, like, look out at the water and feel guilt about killing your friend, Big Pussy? Because that's my only experience of New York City beaches.

Yeah. No, I mean, it's definitely with the surf intention. If the waves are too big and above my skill level, I'll watch people surf. But it definitely has to do with the surf community there. But the best surf is in the fall. It's when the hurricanes hit. It's when the storms are hitting. And so it's more consistent shaped waves in the summer that kind of flattens out. And it's not as good as surf. So, yeah, pretty much year round. But I mean, I even last, there was like a really great. 10-day stretch last January, and I said, F it, I'm going in the wetsuit, I'm getting some salt, water, and some sunlight, and I went in, like, 30-degree weather last year. Good for you. Wouldn't be me? You don't feel any guilt about having killed your good friend,

Big Pussy. Look, he was collaborating with the feds. He was a rat. He was a rat, your father. It had to be done, you vet. That's everyone in New York. Yeah, yeah. What is something, Danny, that you think is overrated?

Overrated is buying a dog, like dog breeding. How are we still doing this in 2025? I wanted to say that I have a new foster, Luna, who she's going to pop on camera real quick. Come in, Luna. She's just bringing the dog in. Oh, my gosh. She's so cute. Here, let me see.

Isn't she just the cutest baby? Is that a duck? Oh, my. Is that a duck? Wait, where to face that? Oh, shit. Sorry. The strap had me up.

She's just shy. Is that a duck? Aw. Getting low kisses. She's four months old. She's a little shy right now, mainly because I just handed her. Yeah, because you made her be on a podcast. She's shy right now.

She's like, I don't do second a podcast. She just hates men doing podcasts. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. So I got a couple guys with a podcast. I'll turn my, I'll turn my camera off. I just got her like two days ago.

I'm fostering her. She's available through Pups without borders. So everyone, yeah, they stop breeding dogs. All of our shelters here in L.A. are overcapacity. Yeah, right. So not to put a damper. She's so sweet. Yeah, yeah.

So you can find her on my, you can find her on Post Without Borders, but also on my account. I've been posting just the cutest. She took an adorable bath and just looked like a kangaroo, honestly. She's like part dingo. Wow. It's like American dingo, which is, um, the dog in prey, I guess, because they're like, they wanted an animal that was indigenous, like, to America.

Oh, the movie Pride, the, yeah, Predator. The dog that's in that. That's so funny, you mentioned fostering. I went outside to walk my dog and this dude was out in, like, near the front of my house and was like, hey, David. And I was like, nah. And I kept, I kept it moving. He's like, hey, so it's me, Matt.

Um, is, is this it? And was like, I was like, what the, I'm like, well, I said, wait, bro, what? and he's like the dog is this the dog and I'm like yeah this is my dog he's like yeah so I'm here and I was like buddy I'm like who are you looking for and then he said the name again

I'm like that's not me yes I'd say David and then my fucking neighbor comes out and he apparently he was fostering a dog a black dog like mine and then I was like oh okay bro I thought I was like you have to fight or something I didn't know what you were trying to do I love a guy coming by like yo you got it yeah I was like

I know. I'm like, with my dog, my boy, what are you doing? Am I holding a dog? That's not me anymore. What? Got the canine? I don't have that on me right now. We will accept Luna as a Halloween story also because Luna is moon and moon is spooky. Thank you. This is a bilingual podcast. I feel like that would be good enough for like a song about the moon would make it onto a Halloween playlist like towards the end.

Amazing. All right. Thrilled to have you here, Danny. We're going to take a quick break. we're going to come back and talk about the spookiest subject of all nuclear weapons testing. We'll be right back. Here we go. Hey, I'm Cal Penn, and on my new podcast, Here We Go Again, we'll take today's trends and headlines and ask,

why does history keep repeating itself? You may know me as the second hottest actor from the Harold and Kumar movies, but I'm also an author, a White House staffer, and as of like 15 seconds ago, a podcast host. Along the way, I've made some friends who are experts in science, politics, and pop culture. And each week, one of them will be joining me to answer my burning questions. Like, are we heading towards another financial crash like in 08? Is non-monogamy back in style? And how come there's never a gate ready for your flight when it lands like two minutes early? We've got guests like Pete Buttigieg, Stacey Abrams,

Lily Singh, and Bill Nye. When you start weaponizing outer space, things can potentially go really wrong. Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now, because it is. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to here we go again with

Cal Penn on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Crying Wolf Podcast is the story of two men bound by injustice of a city haunted by its secrets and the quest for redemption no matter the price white victim female pretty wealthy black defendant Chicago a white woman's murder a black man behind bars for a crime he didn't commit I got 90 years for killing somebody I have never seen he says the police are his friends and then that's it they turn on it a corrupt detective

How he was interrogated the techniques. That's crazy. A snitch and a life stolen. They got the wrong guy. But on the inside, Lee Harris finds an ally in his celly, Robert, who swears to tell the truth about what happened to Lee and free his friend. And if you're with me, your goal to, I'll take care of you. I'm going to be with you.

You stuck with me for life. Listen to the Crying Wolf podcast, starting on October 22nd, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Big Take podcast from Bloomberg News dives deep into one big global business story every weekday. A shutdown means we don't get the data, but it also means for President Trump that there's no chance of bad news on the labor market. What does a bacon, egg, and cheese sandwich reveal about the economy? Our breakfast foods are consistent consumer staples, and so they sort of become outsized, of inflation. What's behind Elon Musk's trillion dollar payout?

There's a sort of concerted effort to message that Musk is coming back. He's putting politics aside. He's left the White House. And what can the PCE tell you that the CPI can't? CPI tries to measure out-of-pocket costs that consumers are paying for things, whereas the PCE index that the Fed targets is a little bit broader of a measure. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I live below a cult leader, and I fear

I've angered her. Well, wait a minute, Sophia. Adia knows she's a cult leader. Well, Dakota, luckily it's I'm not afraid of a scary story week on the OK Storytime podcast, so you'll find out soon. This person writes, My neighbor's been blasting music every day and doing dirt rituals, and now

my ceiling is collapsing. I try to report them, but things keep getting weirder. I think they may be part of a cult? Hold up, Sophia. A real-life cult? And what is a dirt ritual? No clue. But according to this person, contractors are tearing down the patio to find out what's going on with her ceiling and her neighbors are not happy. Well, she needs to report them ASAP. She did! And now they've been confronting her in really creepy ways all the time.

So do we find out if this person survives their neighborhood cult or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Story Story. Time podcast on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. We're back. And you did a couple episodes on Ouija boards, yes, a year ago or so, and then a more recent one, where you cover the phenomenon of Zozo and Zaza, who, that sounds weird. It's funny. It is funny.

The episodes aren't funny. They're scary. They are spooky. I was getting spooked. It's getting downright spooked to listen to those things. It's kind of like, it reminds me. Have you ever been in a meeting where like someone Zoom bombs it? Yeah. Like usually a teenager. Oh, and you hear screaming out of nowhere.

Fuck you. It's like just the worst thing they can think of. I have not been in that. That's really funny, though. That's like such a 2020 kind of experience of Zoom bombing. It was a real pandemic. thing. Yeah. And that kind of feels like what's happening. It's like these two malevolent spirits that keep... And so the thing that is creepy about it is that you're taught, you, the format of

your show is you talk to people who they then tell their story of this thing that resists sort of explanation happening to them. And so it's like almost an oral tradition. you get to hear the story from them it adds a real layer of like I don't know that's this is like it's hard to deny when people are like yeah so like I was in high school

like this is the weird shit that I was doing and then like this thing started happening and in this case people were fucking around with Ouija boards and like they started having these like really dark messages come through

and it was Zoso in the episodes from last year was like what they kept, it kept going ZO, ZO, ZO. And like they didn't realize it at the time, but like you do the research and this is a, there's a trend across people who fuck around with Ouija boards of like this specific thing happening.

Oh, Zoso and Zaza is like a common Ouija board. It's like a very common thing. Very common. There's like a movie called I Am Zoso that I think is like not, very well reviewed. I think it's like a 13% Rotten Tomato's situation.

Okay, a classic. But yeah, this is like a massive thing. And, you know, I had heard of it. Like,

I think I had heard of like the concept just from being on the internet or something. Mm-hmm. But it's totally something that I would completely laugh at and not want to do on the show. Yeah. If you were consciously making up names, those would not be the names you came up with.

It sounds like a fake name that like a 13-year-old girl would. She's like trying to write a horror movie for the first time. Like a lot, like a five-year-old that lies a lot. They're like, Zoso and Zaza. Yeah, exactly. But it is weird. And yeah, I started getting a lot of emails about it. And then, you know, obviously people I ended up interviewing had like really intense

stories that involve this. And apparently it's really common for something to kind of like take over on the board. and identify itself by this name. And yeah, I guess that was like where it turned for me is when I was starting to talk to people who like weren't aware that this is a phenomena that's known

and even things that kind of like happened before the anybody was talking about this at all on the internet. Yeah. So my read like heading in was more like I think Ouija boards are super interesting

because I do think like they're you know like like, skeptics will be like, oh, it's just like people, you know, moving the thing on purpose. And I, I tend to think it's like more they're moving it and don't realize they're doing it. And so this like part of them is being expressed that they don't have access to or like control over, you know, like it's like a sort of youngian like some part of. And in this case, it would be like a shared unconscious because they all have the same name. And like this, that is a with the same, like, dark energy. Yeah, which I think, like, that doesn't explain everything, but I do think it's easy, like, this comes up a lot on our show in reference to, like, the story of Havana syndrome, where everyone was like, oh, they were making it up.

And it's like, I don't think they were intentionally making it up. Like, I think they experienced those realities of, like, a bad thing, like, getting hit with. a sound beam or being like under attack by some like invisible force that it turns out is like physically impossible to have happened. But like they, I know. I'm sorry to force a detour, but did they ever find a solution for that? Was there any closure? It's not like officially, but you know, you as documents have been released, the CIA themselves and like the different departments. The Pentagon, like, prior to the Trump takeover, all seemed to be like, we don't think

there was any, like, physical basis for these attacks. And these are organizations that would seemingly love a physical basis for an attack that they could, you know, start getting funding around. Because I heard compelling explanations on both sides of it. Like, I first encountered it as something that was just complete nonsense. It was, like, evil CIA people having, like, maybe internalized guilt for the horrible things they do work. Yeah. But, you know,

but then I've also heard some stuff that was really compelling on the other side. Like, there was, I listened to a, like a series where interviewed some people who had experienced it and it sounded really intense. But anyway, you could continue with your point. I didn't mean to be realist. I think that that's true.

I think that they experienced harrowing things. I think the power of the unconscious mind is like the great underrated force. of people's existence. And I think, like, ritual and, you know, all these things that we don't really make room for officially as, like, mattering in our world, in a lot of cases, like, are ways of accessing that.

And I think, I just think that people are like, if it's their unconscious mind, then it's, like, skeptic, skeptic view, not interesting. And I think that's actually, like, really interesting. That, like, that's kind of what's going on. But there are definitely parts of the story that would make it, like, impossible for that. Like, there's one part where it predicts that they're at, like, a high school movie screening on a football field. And it is like, it predicts that the projector is about to go down and it does.

Yeah. Yeah. There's a ton of stuff like that. And, I mean, also the fact that in that story, this occurred before this whole Zosok, thing was like a trend, like a decade before. Yeah. And then the other thing is like the basis for poo-pooing Ouija boards, as I say, it's like the ideomotor effect. It's like this idea that like microscopic muscle movements in a group can like

guide the thing, the planchette. But and that's, you know, like the ideomotor effect is like a real thing. I'm pretty sure it's been like proven to exist. But if you look at the board like Zio, like Z is all the way at the end. O is not equally at the end on the opposite side. It's like one over. So I just think like if you guys, if like,

like I know people explain it away by saying like, oh, it's just sort of like in the downtime between, you know, the ideomotor effect spelling out a word. People just kind of like go to the side to side pattern and hit that. I'm like, I just don't think it would hit ZO or ZA for that matter. Right. It's too specific things from each other. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's too common. It's too common. I would expect to see other patterns of that sort. And that's sort of what I... I kind of come to those conclusions a lot on the show where I'm very open to looking at it both ways, but sort of like, well, I would expect to see more... Same with, like, the Hatman stuff, right?

Can we talk about the Hatman stuff? The Hatman is this very common shadow figure that people see oftentimes in sleep paralysis, but people see it not during sleep paralysis. It's just the shadow man that looks like he's wearing like a wide-brimmed hat. And sometimes he has red eyes. There's like another thing that I would have laughed at and thought was corny until I realized like how common this is.

And it's like a localized thing because I mean I've, I see it on the inner. It's like all over the place. Right. And that's kind of what makes it sort of interesting. It's not just like, well, these group of kids over here saw it when they were fucking around with Ambien or something. It's like, no, this is a. Oh, yeah.

there's that too. Yeah, the Benadryl thing. But yeah, that and then in sleep paralysis, there's like a few common things people see. The other one is like the old hag, which is like this woman sitting on you. And then this is sort of the same thing, but like the mayor,

the, it's like the origin for the term nightmare is this thing sitting on you and holding you down. But anyway, there's like, is it a horse? The mayor is a horse? I think at one point it was like a horse kind of like demon thing

I think that's what it might have been damn but yeah it's a really old term but there like pretty much every culture has a similar thing to this and they're all similar looking like seeing this old woman on you or in the case of the hat man how widespread that is so circling back to the unconscious

talk if it was just like the human unconscious whatever that means by the way generating this you'd expect to see a lot more variation especially throughout time and culture. Like, I'd be very, very surprised, you know, I just said that the whole, the origin of the term nightmare comes from this phenomenon.

You would expect going back that far that, like, fears would change enough. Yeah. Why wouldn't we have, like, why wouldn't it be a Tesla? You know, that's what we get around. We don't get around on horses anymore. We get around on.

So, like, why would it still be a horse? Why would it be a guy with a big hat that, like, is not a style people wear anymore? Yeah, I would expect to see more, like, micro-trends with it, if that makes sense. Yeah, totally. Yeah. And between cultures and stuff. So, yeah, that's, um, those are the kind of things that interest me, you know,

and those two things I did laugh off at first, but then kind of reluctantly dug into them, like, oh, this is pretty interesting, actually, and frightening. So I don't really know what it is. It's funny that I, I mean, I think it's sort of a stupid name. I wanted to think of another name for that episode besides Zaza. Like, it killed me to call it Zaza. But that's like, I don't know. I think that's interesting, though, when it's a scary thing that, like, I'm, you know,

I'm normally somebody that would think it's completely stupid, but the story is compelling enough that, like, pulls me to the other side, right? And it's kind of a goofy sounding name, but this is, I guess that makes it scarier in a way. You're like, no, not Zaza, Zosso visiting me tonight. Well, it is like something that, like, you would kind of laugh at it. fed at first, you know. Totally right. I mean, I think that's kind of like the experience of listening to your show.

Like, I remember last time you're on was kind of like, I think you were just getting into like the them series of episodes. And like I'm, I'm very skeptical. Like I'm one of those people who like, even though I'm like Japan, I'm Japanese, there's like very rich ghost like, you know, spooky culture there that I'm like, nah, I'm not. I'm not seeing any of this. stuff. But, like, in listening to your show, because I mean, like, I remember when you're on last time, you're sort of like, I don't necessarily believe in everything or at all. It's more just

like, it's, it's really interesting to hear these people describe these events that have happened. And as they experienced them. Yeah. Yeah. And the them one is by far one of the most fucking out there things I've ever heard in my life. If you, like, give like a, you know, like a three line description of it. So people kind of understand what I'm about to like get into here. And real quick. Before you, before we started recording, you had to answer a text message. I have to assume it was from one of the four-dimensional. The them. Yeah. How'd you know? How did you know? I will say interesting timing. The girl from that series is visiting right now. She's in town. So I met her in person, yeah. Bro. Do a Solvai meetup, man. You could look up. Yeah, maybe you'll see her

walking around the neighborhood. Yeah, but I mean, I get, yeah, like sort of give a light breakdown because I I think it's really interesting to listen, whether or not you believe in this stuff or skeptical. I think it's the experience of listening to it for me was very interesting. I'm glad you liked it. Basically, it's about this girl in Norway who is kind of feeling off and basically one night while she's in college sees this strange looking like man in her room, almost like a ghost, but not quite. She's obviously freaked out. has a lot of really strange physical sensations as well around this time and tries to power on

with her life but is ultimately just kind of having anxiety about it and tweaking as you would expect so she calls her mom in hopes that her mom will calm her down tells her like I saw this thing like I'm feeling all this stuff blah blah blah but instead of her mom calming her down she was like, I was afraid this was going to happen. And it was like, they're talking to you now. She's like, what? There we go.

Yep. But so she's like, what? And so her mom, you know, tells her very briefly that she's been communicating with these beings for like a long time. And is essentially like, come home to visit and we'll talk. And at that point,

she finds out that the mom and a girl from the mom's gym have been communicating with what, they think are interdimensional beings for a substantial amount of time. I forget how long. And to make it stranger, this girl from the gym is the same age as Solvi. And her and the mom have, like, become very close to the point where she becomes like a third sister to them, essentially.

And like, kind of doppelgangerish or like they have like a lot of martialities between them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, it gets weirder from there, right? But it's, to me, it's all I always, like, that, like, start to the story is what locked me in early on. And especially meeting Solvye, I'm like, I 100% believe this girl. I mean, it's not even a question of belief.

You know, if you meet her and talk to her, it's just like, she's a very straightforward person. Right. This clearly happened to her. And she doesn't know what it is. But that's the thing that, like, really fucked me up about it. Because, again, I was like, I'm sure there's got to be a way to explain all of this. But then I was trying to look deeper. as to what was pulling me in, despite being so, like, logical when I, like, when I

listen to things like this. And there was something, I think, because we live in this, like, super dumbed down, like, deeply disconnected world right now, like our current, like world, this modern world, we're completely disconnected from, like, you know, the land from each other, like our history and things like that, that to hear somebody describe these sort of paranormal phenomena or experiences in a way like sort of calls to something like that there's something there's like there's a spirituality that we've lost on some level as human beings that even if I believe Solvi or not hearing this person speak about these things that can't be explained that they don't understand is like pulling at something I think much deeper

like in the human experience that we just completely lack now like especially because that's what colonialism does to most people like completely it's those things are seen as like pagan or savage or whatever takes the ritual and spirituality out of things and it's just like this is a materialist universe here are the laws that explain it we know everything no more mystery right to work exactly and i think there's a yearning on some level that it surely just can't be all of this just tangible shit on some level even if you're religious or not that like there is something that we feel on a deeper level that we can't quite explain. And I think that's why I really enjoy listening to the show is because even then,

even if I don't know if this actually happened, but the sensation of hearing a person sort of sincerely describe a thing, whether they're like very talented liars or just people who are really being very sincere, there's just something that like is undeniable that I realize I'm like, oh man, like there's something about it that is like, I don't know, like healing or there's a yearning that I didn't understand like I had deep within me, which is like, trying to find sort of like these sort of threads to something like that isn't just tangible and just explainable like everything else has been in my life. I like, I really, really like that reaction and that's actually kind of like what I hope. The reaction I hope people have to the show

or was hoping they would have. And I think it's why I like this stuff, you know, where I wasn't super into it. But I do think like when you hear something like that, I find it comforting in a way. like it kind of can make you feel small and like remind you that oh yeah we really don't know anything still right and especially when like the world is crazy or your life is crazy or anything just things feel out of control

so often in life you know I think there's there's an odd comfort to hearing the most extreme version of that and being reminded like oh yeah like not only is the world completely out of control like it's always been out of control like we don't know anything we're just like kind of powerless you know and that's fine

it's like comforting knowing that there are these great great mysteries that maybe we'll understand one day but it's okay to not know because I mean so I think I've spent my life being a like a real skeptic on a supernatural things and yet I wear specific hats or don't wear specific hats based on what like how a basketball

team that I like has performed, which is, I think to your point about powerlessness, it's like that is a thing I am completely unable to control. And so I like invent this stupid way that I can control it and like, believe it with my body and not my mind, but like fully like, I'm like, fuck, I did something wrong on this one. Well, yes. That's what's interesting too, because I remember like a lot of people to like shows like yours or other shows dealing with like paranormal phenomena. there's like there are people who so deeply want to just explain why it isn't like and it's just like and it's an unequivocal no this is fucking nonsense and like I get that sort of desire but I think that's why like I that's what I found very interesting about listening to the episode it's not me

necessarily trying to figure out like where are the where the holes in this story because like sure I can be very analytical about those kinds of things but I think again it's the idea of just that there is something we just can't explain. And sure, maybe it's manifesting in these people saying, like, I'm experiencing X, Y, or Z. But, like, even knowing someone is experiencing that, there's something, like, intoxicating about it, too. And I think maybe that could just be because I've been,

I'm such a deep skeptic about stuff like this, where I find myself not having to be like, does this confirm my beliefs or does it completely blow them up? I'm, like, finding this middle thing, which is like, no, man, like, there's something just much. deeper, even if it's about like, it's not maybe necessarily interdimensional beings communicating, but we've shut ourselves off to something that, like, I'm trying to figure out how to reconnect

to, and not in like a magical way, but just something that's a little bit more outside of what is, you know, sort of academically described. Yeah, no, absolutely. And I will say this, like, well, first of all, as the host of this show and somebody who wants people to just be able to, like, listen and relax and, like, not being able to not trying to disprove everything. It is obviously frustrating like that type of personality who's like wants to quickly disprove things

but I will also say that like a lot of this stuff even if you don't like believe it all the way like a lot of times like I don't have a way to disprove it and I try right

a lot of people are comfortable disproving something by just like saying some bullshit and being okay with it not being complete right a lot of the ways people disprove these things is just like

throwing out some fucking stupid shit they heard on Wikipedia or like a podcast one time and just being like oh it's like this effect uh you know like I heard about that one time it's like all right and then if you really if you really apply it and like pick it through

it doesn't make sense like it wouldn't hold up in court right like you couldn't if you actually had to disprove it like up to the standards of like a jury you know that would not work oftentimes there's all sorts of weird little thing people toss around like mold uh the person had like black mold in their house

maybe. Maybe it was black mold in their house. Maybe like gas leak. That's the thing like, even if it is, right? There's the fact that even someone is experiencing the world like that, I think it's just very interesting. Yeah, I would still be interested. But yeah, I mean, there's things like that that get tossed around as if we even fully understand those. And Jack, not to, I'm not picking on you at all. I do this too, but like, I hear a lot about people saying like, oh, it's just their unconscious playing tricks on them. It's like, well, dude, that's not even, we don't even know what the unconscious mind is yet or the limitations of it. So it's like, that doesn't really, I'm not satisfied with that explanation ever.

That gets tossed around a lot. It's like, well, we don't know the complete functions of the unconscious mind, how it exists. We don't know if it's completely internal. There's people who think that it could be partly external. Yeah, I think it could come from somewhere else. That opens things up. That opens the floodgates. Yeah, young believed that there was like a shared unconscious that we like had access to.

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. That's kind of my interest in it, is that it's so unknown. Which is just as magical, the concept of a shared unconscious and then how, then going about to sort of bring all that to it. Yeah. It's one of those things where like, it's sort of like the 101 level is being the Reddit atheist who just is like, it's all fake. But when you kind of like dig deeper, you kind of like come out through the other side at one point. You could kind of like keep digging through to the other side over and over

again with this stuff, which is interesting. But yeah, like the unconscious stuff, I mean, even bringing it back to the Ouija board, it's like if it is everybody's unconscious, like the movement on the planchette, kind of like reaching this flow state, like that is actually what spiritualists would say is the key to unlocking it, right? Yeah. The people who basically popularize the Ouija board and like they don't actually the spiritualists don't use that anymore but like that era

that era of time is like would birth this like the talking board but yeah those people that believe it 100% would say that that is the key like the group working together and that shared exactly I think it's so powerful and interesting

yeah it's um it's cool I mean the longer you think about it the more you scratch your head with this stuff yeah right two of the characters is like predict, using the Ouija, like, predict the exact day that, like, one, or the, you know, Zozo predicts the exact day that their boyfriends are both going to break up with them. I thought that was funny. That's so wild.

I forgot of this. Either way, it's so interesting. I forget if it made it into the episode or not. But when she told me that, I was like, do you think there's a chance that you guys just broke up with you because you were addicted to playing with a weird? Right. Because they're so obsessed with it. But, like, that is what, I think it's like a drug where you're, like, connecting with this thing in a way that is not available to you in any other way.

So, like, whether it's something outside or inside, I think it's, you know, powerful and interesting and way more powerful than anybody is, anyone who's doing, like, being like, it's just their unconscious mind making, playing tricks on them that, yeah, it's not dismissive. Like, that actually makes it more interesting to me, I think. yeah but with the them series people want clean answers there's a certain type of person that would want like a clear answer to that and they go looking for it I wanted to disprove that one I'm not disprove it I thought I was going to that confident I would find something I would like turn over enough stones that I would find a clue right like but I have not really even formed a theory in my mind that like a hypothetical way to do prove it all. I'm just kind of lost, which is so spooky to me. And yeah, I don't know. That's what makes it so interesting. And same with the people in it. They don't really know what it is either. I think that's why like even just like I would have when I was listening to I'm like I can't wait to hear what the answer is. But then again, as again, like the sensation of listening to it isn't necessarily that I'm thinking of it like logically. It's more I'm

I think it's because I'm skeptical that part of that there's a certain cynicism that comes along with that. Not that it's like bad or anything, but this helped thaw that a bit and was just, maybe it's just for pure entertainment or pleasure that I could just go, well, we don't

know everything and that's interesting. And I like, and I'll keep it there. It's not, I'm not going up calling my mom be like, yo mom, we got to get right with these interdimensional beings. No, yeah, exactly. I don't know if you hear the clicking sounds I'm making with my mouth. And I think that's sort of uncanny thing you're talking about of like the experience of listening to the show is like the we used to only learn and pass information on via the oral

tradition and like that is learning like hearing things as people experience them through their experience and like that's what I think is so powerful about the show is that like it's reconnecting you with like that way of experiencing these things that you know we were just like yeah but written tradition better and it's like no you're cutting out a whole very compelling way of learning about human experience. Yeah. And I think, like, to kind of close out the whole skepticism thing, you know, people who believe that there's explanations for everything, it's just we simply don't.

I would love to know if we did have an explanation, like, let's just say for ghosts, like people, there are people who legitimately believe that, like, ghosts have been disproved. And, like, like, whether it's infrasound. or, you know, mold poisoning or something. There are people who think that's like, case closed, this is what it is. It's just simply not the case. And what I always say in terms of that is, like, if there really was some way to make a person see a ghost, I would love to know.

I would love to patent it. Yeah. Do that. Could you imagine the haunted house you could do? Can you imagine the bag from the Universal Studios contract? If I figured out, like, there's a sound frequency I could play to, like, vibrate somebody's brain in a way that they, see a ghost.

All right. I'm patenting that you won't, you won't hear the podcast again, bro. I'll be required. I'll buy a little St. James. Raytheon would be knocking at your door before Universal Studios do it, I think. Yeah.

Let's take a quick break. We'll come back. We'll be right back. Sure. The Crying Wolf Podcast is the story of two men bound by injustice, of a city haunted by its secret. and the quest for redemption, no matter the price.

White victim, female, pretty, wealthy, black defendant. Chicago, a white woman's murder, a black man behind bars, for a crime he didn't commit. I got 90 years for killing somebody I have never seen. He says the police are his friends and then that's it. They turn on it. A corrupt detective. How he was interrogated the techniques. That's crazy.

A snitch in a lifestyle. They got the wrong guy. But on the inside, Lee Harris finds an ally in his celly, Robert, who swears to tell the truth about what happened to Lee and free his friend. And if you're with me, your goal to, I'll take care of you. I'm going to be with you. You stuck with me for life. Listen to the Crying Wolf podcast, starting on October 22nd, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We go. Hey, I'm Cal Penn, and on my new podcast, Here We Go Again.

We'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? You may know me as the second hottest actor from the Harold and Kumar movies, but I'm also an author, a White House staffer, and as of like 15 seconds ago, a podcast host. Along the way, I've made some friends who are experts in science, politics, and pop culture. And each week, one of them will be joining me to answer my birth. questions. Like, are we heading towards another financial crash like in 08? Is non-monogamy back in style? And how come there's never a gate ready for your flight when it lands like two minutes early? We've got guests like Pete Buttigieg, Stacey Abrams, Lily Singh, and Bill Nye. When you start weaponizing outer space, things can potentially go really wrong.

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That is where the big take from Bloomberg podcast comes in, to connect the dots. How unusual is a deal like this? Unprecedented. Every weekday afternoon, we dive deep into one big global business story. The biggest story of the reaction of the oil market to the conflict in the Middle East is one of what has not happened. Katie, you told me that ETFs are your favorite thing. They are. Explain that. Why is that the case?

And unpack what it means for you. Our breakfast foods are consistent consumer staples, and so they sort of become outsized indicators of inflation. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I live below a cult leader, and I fear I've angered her. Well, wait a minute, Sophia. How do you know she's a cult leader?

Well, Dakota, luckily it's I'm not afraid of a scary story week on the OK Storytime podcast, so you'll find out soon. This person writes, My neighbor's been blasting music every day and doing dirt rituals, and now my ceiling is collapsing. I try to report them, but things keep getting weirder. I think they may be part of a cult. Hold up, Sophia, a real-life cult? And what is a dirt ritual? No clue.

But according to this person, contractors are tearing down the patio to find out what's going on with her ceiling and her neighbors are not happy. Well, she needs to report them ASAP. She did. And now they've been confronting her in really creepy ways all the time. So do we find out if this person survives their neighborhood cult or not? To hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And we're back. And I wanted to talk about the ghost face mask from Scream because I, we, we have in the past looked at the, and maybe we still will. They were, we're kind of running out of time this week, but did, oh, maybe tomorrow's episode. Do you even do the, like, trending top, top costumes of the year thing? It's always been a bit of bullshit where it's like, you know, they're just finding the ones that are, like, popping up and in the news so that they can, like, And then it's a mixture of that with, like, it'll be like, Spider-Dash-Man. Yeah, what's Spider-Man. Frightgeist is back.

But, like, truly, you know, we have thousands of trigger-treaters come to our house every year. For the past six years, we've lived here in a place that, like, has very, like, constant trigger-treaters. And without fail, every year, the most popular costume is the scream, the ghost face mask. Like, that is it. And it's like, I don't know. I was a little bit surprised. Like, I don't know. I knew the screen movies were popular,

but it's like from starting at age four up, people are just wearing screen masks. So I feel like there's just something about that mask that really connects with the national shared consciousness. Like, I've always thought that Michael Myers is the scariest, coolest Halloween mask. Yeah, but Scream demolishes Michael Myers in terms of, like, popularity. So, I think, I got some ideas, I think, maybe.

Yeah. So, yeah, and on Wikipedia, Wikipedia can confirm since the appearance of Ghost Face and Scream the costume has become the most worn and sold costume for Halloween in the United States. Douglas, are you a Halloween fan? Do you dress up? I like Halloween. I dressed up as a Bavarian Chocolatier.

this year and before that I was a pineapple. Nothing too scary. I keep it light on Halloween, but nothing is scarier than a three foot child in a scream costume. A screamer. Or three foot Michael Myers too. Oh, either

or. Three foot Michael Myers is hilarious. Three foot Michael Myers. I saw that at UCB one time and that was a great show. That's my Herald team. Three foot Michael Myers. Three foot Michael Myers. Yeah. But no, I mean, there is something, it's, I think it comes back to Van Gogh, the, uh, of it all.

It is prime monk. Yes, it's primordial. It's deep. No, everyone has felt the scream in their heart. Yeah. That's what I feel like. I feel like it's connecting because, so one of the theories of, like, masks is that, like, you know, like Michael Myers is the most neutral mask.

It's like, it's expressionless. And I feel like that's what's scary about it, you know, is it's just this like blank face that you can both that's like creepy to have something stalking you that like never makes an expression. But also you can project whatever onto it, you know, like you can project your own scary feelings. Whereas scream is like the, or the ghost face mask is the opposite of that. It is the most expressive facial expression like possible. And they just really, like, nailed it with, yeah, I mean, they, so a lot of people point out, like you did, they do seem to be borrowing from the Edward Monk scream, which is a famous painting, because from the time it was painted in the late 19th century, I think it symbolized the existential angst and anxiety that people were facing with the onset of the, wasn't good, not the technical, the industrial. Yeah. Wait till World War I, y'all. Yeah. What's up with World War I? The face seems to be saying, coming from a deep existential horror and asking the question, what's up with World War I?

One, dude. Dang, influenza? Influenza? Fuck. I mean, I don't know if to me, the reason, I think the screen mask is the least scary of the masks. And that's why it's so, they embrace. is so easy because you look at it and it looks kind of like a it looks like a decoration you'd see like when Disney makes Disneyland look all spooky like it's like and it's one of the ghosts where it's like oh yeah it's a ghost and yeah it's like scary but it's not like menacing and I think a lot of it comes from like the film so like yeah it is like ironic too like that's another thing that people have pointed out that it's like post you know scream is a very postmodern movie where it's commenting on horror movies and the rules of horror movies and Like, they have literal characters inside it talking about the rules of horror movies.

And so, like, the mask is both, like, can be seen as, like, expressing horror, but it can also, it almost seems like it's mocking. Yeah, exactly. It's, like, sarcastically being like, oh, no, like, doing a Kevin from home alone. Yeah. And in the movie, I think there's even a bunch of jump scares that end up being a, ha-ha, I was missing with you, man, in the movie. And I think that actually helps it be scarier.

because you don't know when it's going to be the real one. And there's so many parts in the movie where people are like, okay, stop missing around. Come on, take it off. And then it's like, oh, no, it's a real one. It's you. It's you. Yeah. Right.

Oh, no, it's the guy with the very specific voice changer. Yeah, I mean, the, like, I feel like that Michael Myers feels like otherworldly almost and, you know, his character is otherworldly. Like, he kind of can't be killed. And it's just this, like, force of evil that keeps coming from you for you. Whereas the screen movies, which are, like, the most successful at the box office of any, like, slasher horror movies, I think, the first three ones, at least. The bad guys are always just like on some Scooby-Doo shit, you know? It's always just like, I've pulled off the mask and revealed that it's, you know, a real person from the movie with a grudge and a complicated backstory doing this because they've, yeah, usually they've been ruined by the world.

But I do feel like that is, yeah, there's something very human about both who the killers actually are in the screen movies, but also like the mask is like kind of very, like embracing human emotion and human horror and, you know, all of that. So there's like, which makes sense, like, at a time when we've like kind of mostly, I think, left behind the idea that like there is an otherworldly horror that is going to do us in, like that it's the devil. that's going to do it. And now we're just like, people are bad. Yeah. That makes sense that this would be the mask we go with. I think there's like a comfort argument too. Because think about all the shitty fucking rubber masks that we were subjected to in the 80s and 90s prior to scream.

And they were like stinky inside of basketball smelling rubber faces. You're like, I mean, they're still popular now. But like a lot of them were like. I've got one of those in my near future, unfortunately. And, like, a lot of, like, the, like, scary ones were, like, fucked up and kind of scary. You're like, oh, bro, if I, like, if I had that in my room, I just wouldn't want to really look at it, you know, and the scream mask, a little more comfortably where, like, a black hood and put the mask on.

And it's, I think, again, it's just the fact that it's less menacing, I think appeals to children. And because it's not, like, it's not bloody or anything or has like, you know, like, it's like a mutant face or whatever. It's, like, silly ghost mask. but also the scream like to your point Douglas is because like you know Billy Loomis and whatever the fuck meth the other guy was called in the first movie he's like teenagers fucking around with the mask

it kind of has that like so sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry yeah Victor's giving it to me too sorry for the spoilers I should have said that it wasn't Billy Loomis but like I think there's like a fun to it that also makes it unpredictable you know what I mean or like you don't like so it really is like Mike Myers is like you can kind of project your own intent on it. It's the scream, the ghost face mask starts from a place that feels a little more innocent. And then from there, it's like, it's really up to you how fucked up you want this thing to be.

Yeah, and to be killed by something that's making the scared face that you're making is kind of like it's mocking you. You know what I mean? The origin, this is a quote from a slash film article from, I think this is what, yeah, West Craven or one of the makers behind the film say they were doing a location scout for like one of the places. they shot it. They saw this mask. It must have, presumably it was around Halloween and we're like, what about this? And then this quote says, no one could agree on a mask. And I remember we were in a

location scout and we found ghostface in a box of stuff in a garage, weird that you were location scouting and just like, just muddling through their shit. Wes Craven immediately looked at it and said, this is like the famous screen painting. And so we took that to our production and we said, riff on this make something like this they must have done 20 different designs every one of them was rejected by the studio and finally we were like why don't we just get the rights to the mask and we have a drawing in the dock of like what some of the things they did look like and they look like fucking garbage pail kids they look like shit yeah they're really not great half the brain exposed like no yeah and not as breathable i mean to miles's point children love

a breathable mask. And these would have been a rubber basketball shithole. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Steam, steam cook your dome wearing a fucking dome. Anyway. Wait, so who's the person who has the right?

That person must be fucking raking in. Yeah, it was like somebody from a Halloween mask creator who, like, got the, got the rights. Yeah. So Fun World, a company called Fun World that did like a series of masks. So the screen mask was meant to like kind of be flowy and spooky and like, go with your standard ghost sheet costume. And so, like, its eyes were, like, a little bit more, like, wavy. Yeah.

Turn that clown outfit, clan outfit into a ghost outfit with this. Yeah, exactly. Can we a ghost up this clan outfit, they said? Got all these damn clan outfits. I do. But the origin story, first of all, the house that they were scouting was apparently a house from a famous Hitchcock movie that I'm not that familiar with. Hitchcock's Shadow of a Doubt, and they found it in a box.

Like, this is how it would exist in a goosebumps tale of a haunted mask that, like, comes out to, like, possess people. It is, like, they find it in a box in a garage somewhere. Nobody knows who, like, designed it. And they're just, like, try and, like, copy this. And its power is just, like, so undeniable that it can't be altered. And that it goes from, like, that garage box to, like, movie screens to literally, like, every other. face on Halloween night. Like if, you know, we were talking to Douglas, who had the host of a podcast called

Otherworld on earlier this week and just talking about like the way that these ideas, whether they're like from the unconscious or like these powerful energies can like come out. And like if, if Ghostface is like representing something real or like otherworldly or like unconscious or something, like if that's secretly the face of Zosso, of to people who listen to that episode trying to get out, it has like so profoundly and thoroughly won and like in a way that is exactly

how it would happen in like a goosebumps book. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. But yeah, the somebody got real, real lucky. Apparently the TV show tried to like alter it

because they didn't have the rights like they're and so MTV made the decision to redesign the mask for the new series and it sucks. It's just, it's like a neutral mask from, like, the theater, but it with like a blowjob mouth, like a mouth made to get to blow jobs. It looks so, it looks like something from like, what's the word I'm like, like the time of like courtizans in Italy or something. Like a weird porcelain mask. It's like not scary.

It looks like, it looks like bad decor in an old person's house. I can't be scared by like things that have, like any horror movie that. happens in the past like deep in that period like a different period of history like I just can't it doesn't scare me like there there's that uh I forget like one that took place in Venice that I think had kind of Brana attached a couple years back that oh gosh I was just like I don't know man I don't give a fuck about this yeah I mean just talking about hunting in Venice yeah just I think just show them trying to go to the bathroom back then that's horrifying enough what is this dude no Looks like maybe the phantom of the opera would wear this, you know,

as he's approaching you in the catacombs or something like that. I say just give Fun World the money. I mean, they nailed it. They fucking eat with that one. They nailed it. They channeled something deep and dark about humanity, maybe by copying one of the most famous paintings of the past 300 years. The original emo king, Vincent Van Gogh.

The original emo king, the scream painting. Wow. This is so, people are. so into the original mask. Like, apparently Fun World started altering it a little bit that there were like change. Dot org petitions. We're like, bring back the first generation mask. And people are saying the original molds are gone.

But I'm sure you can make another one because. Oh, so the original, you can't even find the OG? I think if you look for like, there, no, there are plenty. I think there, I think this is for people who are so in, like, there have been different iterations. The one we see right now is obviously readily available, but I think there's a different one that people are like, no, I want this. The Gen 1 is what I keep seeing on the internet. Bring back the Gen 1 mask.

Wow, the Schneider cut of masks. There's apparently a couple scenes. I think in the first scream, where it was pre them negotiating the rights to get the original mask. And so you can see that the mask is like a little bit altered. It was like the version that they were going to go with If they couldn't get the rights Oh dude, the Gen 1 Okay, Gen 1 is different than the one we see in the movie

This is Gen 1 With like sort of more triangularish eyes Yeah, that one sucks shit Looks too happy Yeah, that one looks like if like I was hanging out I was hanging out of Michael Jackson I did too many mushrooms Yeah

Yeah, why is it smiling Yeah Yeah, I mean the original The one that showed up in the movie is fucking great And that's the one that I ride for and that's the one that it seems like everybody is obsessed with. The Lecrucette of Halloween masks. You only need one. Exactly. You have it. Your whole life. You're

scary your whole life. It's seasoned, you know. This mask has been seeping microplastics into the faces of this family for three generations now and it's now your turn. And now we're all a little quirky. I think the first year that we did Halloween here and like we saw so many scream masks. I was like, oh yeah, I think there's like a scream reboot coming Wow, that's really, like, must be popular with people. And it's only grown since then. Like, it's just, like, more and more.

And now there's, like, a lot of them you can, like, press a little button and it, like, sprays blood onto the mask. Oh, yeah, that's sick. Those on it, that's too much dip on your chip, no. Yeah, just keep it simple. It's simple. Too much dip on your chip. I like that saying.

All right, that's going to do it for this week's weekly zeitgeist. Please like and review the show if you like the show. means the world demiles. He needs your validation, folks. I hope you're having a great weekend, and I will talk to you Monday. Bye. I'm going to be able to be. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you.

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It's a damn near inspiring true story for anyone out there who's ever shot for the moon, then just totally muffed up the landing. They stole $17 million and had not bought a ticket to help him escape. So we're saying like, oh God, what do we do? What do you do? That was dumb. People do not follow my example. Listen to Crimless, Hillbilly Heist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Cal Penn, and on my new podcast, here we go again.

We'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? Each week, I'm calling up my friends, like Bill Nye, Lily Singh, and Pete Buttigieg, to talk about everything from the space race to movie remakes to psychedelics. Put another way, are you high? Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here We Go Again with Cal Penn on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I live below a cult leader, and I fear I've angered her. Wait a minute, Sophia. How do you know she's a cult leader? Well, Dakota, luckily it's I'm not afraid of a scary story week on the OK Storytime podcast. So we'll find out soon. This person writes, my neighbor has been blasting music every day and doing dirt rituals. And now my ceiling is collapsing. I try to report them, but things keep getting weirder.

I think they might be part of a cult? Hold up. A real life cult? And what is a dirt ritual? No clue, Dakota. Find out how it ends. Listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.