The Daily Zeitgeist - We’re Wrong About So Many Things With Sarah Marshall 03.26.24

Episode Date: March 26, 2024

In episode 1647, Jack and Miles are joined by co-host of You Are Good and You're Wrong About, Sarah Marshall, to discuss…  Some of Our Favorite Episodes of You're Wrong About including; The Pro-Life Movement, Survival in the Andes, Human Trafficking and more! LISTEN: May Ninth by KhruangbinSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm Keri Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry.

Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series, Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and Shekinah Church. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour.

If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, the internet, and welcome to season 331, episode two of Your Daily Life, guys! Hey, production of iHeartRadio. This is a podcast where we take a deep dive into America's shared consciousness,

and it is Tuesday, March 26th 2024 That's right, March 26th It's National Nougat Day I still don't understand what nougat is Technically Epilepsy Awareness Day, National Spinach Day Shout out Popeye

And American Diabetes Association Alert Day But nougat, what is it And how do we continue to live without knowing what it is? I just know it as white, chewy stuff in the middle. I thought it was the stuff in the middle of Three Musketeer Bar. And in Milky Way with caramel. But when I look at the Google image search of nougat would indicate that it's like a white fudge thing. It looks terrible.

Look at this nougat right here. Yeah. Like all the nougat that Google image search returns is not what I had in mind. It says made by whipping egg whites together and adding honey or sugar, roasted nuts, and sometimes candied fruit. No, thank you. Oh, it dates back to the Roman Empire. See, that's why i think about rome so much because i love nougat i feel like they also it's from so long ago that just anything

that was sugar was like called nougat you know they just like it was from a time of like when the only candy was like necco wafers and nougat. Yeah, what's that? I don't know. I dropped some eggs and some sugar and I just whipped it up furiously. And I don't know. My kids are going to miss that. Then it fell on the ground and there are like nuts and sticks stuck in it. So we're going to call that on purpose. Yeah. I mean, now I need to know like the etymology of fucking nougat.

Nougat. My name is Jack O'Brien, a.k.a. Welcome to my golf course, Palmersaurus. That's Jeff. Explore the Titanic. But before it got wrecked, all these medals I've sold. I'm the smartest guy because of coal. I'm the smartest guy because of coal.

That is courtesy of Rezik on the Discord in honor of the Australian billionaire, Clive Palmer, who, first of all, came to our attention most recently because he's rebuilding the Titanic and doing the trip again, making the captain get drunk again and just kind of slalom through those icebergs but already had turned the best golf course in australia like i don't i don't know from golf courses but like the golf course where the pga like would hold their big tournaments he bought that and started putting animatronic dinosaurs all over it. Called it Palmersaurus. It's called zhuzhing.

It's called a zhuzh. He gave it a zhuzh. He zhuzhed the golf course. Put a giant plastic T-Rex on the ninth hole and named it Jeff. So anyways, shout out to that man. I'm thrilled to be joined, as always, by my co-host mr miles gray that's right it's miles gray driving in a busted honda prelude down lancashire because he's a lord of lancashire mr black and he's showgun with no gun miles gray thank you so much for having me back jack again

always appreciate it hey man it's a you know you're you're one of the faces on mount zeitmore you know you're one of our favorites i love Zeitmore. Thank you. You're one of our favorites. I love getting that email from you on a Monday morning being like, hey, man, we'd love to have you back another season. And I'm like, yeah, all right. You've been on every episode so far. I do email you every time and invite you back. To the next season. To keep you in your place.

Yeah. I mean, at a certain point, I'm like, well, this is kind of contractual at this point. Hey, man, I don't know if you're doing anything. I always open it. Yeah, man. No, every time at the same time. Yeah. Yeah, I know.

I'm already here. I'm sending you the Zoom. I'm actually in the Zoom. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks for that, man. Anyways, Miles, we are thrilled to be joined in our third seat by a writer, media critic, host of a couple of podcasts.

You Are Good, a feelings podcast about movies and the classic, the Mount Rushmore podcast. It's not a podcast about Mount Rushmore. It is like on the Mount Rushmore of great podcasts. You're Wrong About, her writing has appeared in The Believer on BuzzFeed. Truly one of the best people in the world at interrogating the myths and narratives we use to

define ourselves and the world around us. Please welcome the brilliant and talented Sarah Marshall! Sarah! God, what a crazy intro. I feel so pumped up. I feel like I want to be one of those kids running onto the stage of Maury and attacking their parents with a chair.

Yeah, right. It's like, I don't care. Thank you so much. Yeah. Oh, man, I miss those. Did you ever do an episode about that? No, we really should. I was just thinking this morning, one of the things i find most

fascinating is the question of like the inner workings of a 90s daytime talk show yeah it's like my god right because i mean like i feel like we got the like the darkest glimpse after the jenny jones thing yeah that's when we started to be like oh no no no what was the jenny jones have consequences the jenny jones one was where they outed one of their guests for being in love with this other man right and then the guy was murdered oh jesus yeah i i'm gonna be iffy on the details but yeah they're and i don't think they aired the episode but right they they did facilitate a murder there yeah that's yeah wow yeah yeah you know i'm you're wrong about as big on the satanic panic facilitate a murder there. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

And you know, you're wrong about as big on the satanic panic and they were such a big part of that. They were a huge part of that. And so many other wonderful things.

Yeah. A real accelerant to the satanic panic. the wet cardboard and the mushroom growing experience if we're going to use a mycology metaphor.

Right. Of course we are. Which we are, yeah. I was going to ask for the best mycology metaphor you could come up with. Yeah, we've talked about You're Wrong About a lot on this podcast, especially around human trafficking. And it's just, I think, the foremost debunker of bullshit myths. And our show peddles bullshit. I mean, it's what we do we love to uh no we also like to uh bust bullshit myths when we're heads up enough to catch them but so we wanted to just have you back on the show and go through some of the stories you've covered some of your

favorites some of our favorites that we just want to make sure our listeners are aware of. Yeah. Because it's a great show. I'm so happy to be here. This is so lovely. And I'm so happy that we're in your zeitgeist. And it's like a lovely and bleak and lovely distinction to hold when it's like, you know, myth busting is one of the most important roles in society today. Unfortunately, it truly is.

All right. Before we get into all that stuff, though, we do like to get to know you a little bit better by asking you what is something either from your search history that's revealing about who you are, or you could tell us something that you've recently screencapped that is revealing about who you are. Oh, I like the screencap question. Screencaps were such a big part of my life in the Twitter era. Okay, something I screencaptured from a New York Times article that I'll have to look up. It was from a couple of years ago.

It was about the history of food writing. And I was screencapping a quote from Benjamin Disraeli from a letter he wrote in 1831 while he was in Cairo. And he wrote, the most delicious thing in the world is a banana. And I was like, I gotta save that. Wow. Now, why did I think that was interesting?'s hard to articulate but i guess one i guess need i need to have i can't remember that kind of thing anymore so this is the kind of thing i save

i am uh sometimes struck by the deliciousness of bananas i don't i don't think i've ever made that claim like to that degree but as an ingredient ingredient, it is kind of a miraculous ingredient. All fruit is kind of miraculous, really. Fruit really is an amazing invention invented by people whose names we don't know, but like horticulturists years ago made these things through just ingenious skills that we have completely lost track of. But the banana being as creamy as it is, like the difference for me between a smoothie with banana and without

is like, I don't think you should be allowed to call that a smoothie. Where would smoothies be without bananas? We would be nowhere. Thank you. You think it's the high potassium? I feel like it's like those high potassium foods, like avocados and bananas, they that butteriness that creaminess to them yeah that always got nature's custard and it's also like do you ever get too high and think about like

what if the plants are in charge you know because they make the fruit and you know we human ingenuity like you just said has done so much to make this fruit delicious. We've carried it forward, but like they make the fruit so that we spread it around and we've like, you know, soared high and now we're crashing. And who's going to take over? We've got these dipshits doing it for us. The plants. Yeah. Yeah. Now take me over here.

Long game. Yeah. Bring me to France at once. Big square mile of their finest land and just like do everything to make us as comfortable as possible on that land. Yeah. I don't get too high anymore. But when I did, that is the sort of thought that would occur to me. I think didn't. Was it Michael Pollan who wrote about plants like from

that the botanist yeah i didn't read that book but yeah he did the botanist dilemma the botany of desire he did yeah a ton of plant books none of which i've read but is isn't he also like the drug the mind expansion like yes he wrote a book that I can't remember what the title is because my friends and I decided to call it Michael Pollan Does Drugs. But it is funny that that is such a high thought that has dominated the New York Times for like a decade now. The New York Times seems to frequently get high, though, based on the... Oh, this is your mind on plants.

Mind on plants yeah there you go then i think he was the guy behind the netflix mind on plants documentary as well like that that was an adaptation of this is your mind on plants but yeah and then you've all know a harari and sapiens kind of had a chunk where he was basically like, we got trapped by wheat. We're in the wheat trap and we got outsmarted by wheat. It's the slowest horror movie you've ever seen. A horror movie. Millennia

in the making. Oh my god. It's beautiful. The Happening. It is. Spoiler alerts, but that is the plot of The Happening is essentially the plants are killing us much quicker than wheat does. And much more directly. The corn, too.

Yeah, the corn. What's the corn been thinking? What is something that you think is underrated, Sarah? God, I love this question. And I think here's a little vendetta i have which is that we've really seen sort of the tech technologization if that's a word probably not of bread in the past 20 years right bread has become this thing people make spreadsheets about and like god bless them i if you're making bread spreadsheets then you like god bless them i if you're making

bread spreadsheets then you're probably doing things that mere mortals aren't even capable of with bread spreadsheets yeah exactly yeah and there's so many you know there's so many ways to approach something but i think that it's made people feel like bread is overly technical and something they can't just kind of like fake their way through. Yeah. And really, and to me, there's a whole other, I think both ways and other ways are equally valid. And to me, there's a lot of joy in just kind of muddling your way through. I was just watching a video about how to allegedly create your own yeast using dandelion fermentation like dandelions and sugar

and you kind of create a wild yeast that way and that's not you could approach that technically but you could also just be like i am a witch and i'm gathering weeds and putting them in a little and i think something underrated is just like messing around in a way that isn't meant to be successful the first time, but that gives you a feel for something, whether that's bread or whatever else. Right. As long as you're not like a surgeon, you know, don't do that. Right. Yeah. It feels like if like a jazz musician was like recording all the notes they played in like a solo.

Okay. That was good. See right there, I probably should have gone to the D flat. Not next time though. It's like, no, just let it flow out of you. Because I mean, I'm not a baker myself, but based on what you're saying, I'd imagine it's not that hard to completely fuck up a loaf of bread if you have the ingredients in the semi-correct proportions, right? Right. It's like, you know, you'll end up with something that's like basically bread. It might not be exactly the kind that you want,

but like it's bread. You'll be pretty happy with it. Put butter on it. Who cares? Do another loaf. Learn. Exactly. Yeah. Soak it. Make a soup out of it. Just soak it or something. Yeah. Yeah. This is one of the croutons. This is one of the things i am most strident about weirdly is that i i hate it when people sort of create the illusion that something requires book learning right and like analysis and spreadsheets and yeah i feel like it's a way into it but it's not obligatory. Yeah. I feel like a lot, like I'm very bad at cooking or at least it takes me a really long time to cook because I am like very precision and do not trust my instincts at all. Like I,

I believe I have very bad instincts and in that in particular but then you will see people who like who think that you need to like over explain and be like how did you make that exact cut in that movie or like how did they choose that precise word and yeah like like you were saying miles about jazz it feels like it's really the distinction between like people who are good at an art and like not good at an art like i suck at cooking and so i want to over analyze it and just be like no but like if i if i step here when i'm stirring the dough then like it could totally fuck everything up and it's like yeah because you don't have any instincts in that regard whatsoever there's you have to you have to find the joy in it because like even

there are dishes that i make a lot and i don't i don't really write down what the difference was every time i just kind of like intuiting that or just like realizing like oh right i did this last time oh don't do this next time and i think i'm engaging with it in a way that's more playful rather than like i'm cooking for the fucking head of state don't fuck this up kind of energy and i think that's where the spreadsheet ism kind of creeps in because we're not allowing ourselves to be more playful about it it's like so results based to maybe a overly rigid degree yeah yeah yeah and it you know, and it's about whatever's fun for you. But like something I also love

that I read once in a Julia Child cookbook is that she's like, I will always tell you why I'm asking you to do something because I never do something if a cookbook tells me to do it and doesn't tell me why, you know, because there's so many things,

you know, that I mean, it's kind of like trying to learn how to speak english perfectly by studying grammar where like you get to a point where experts agree or where you sound so correct that people can understand you and like a lot of the joy of it is colloquial colloquialism at a certain point you just have to watch the soap operas you have to watch jenny jones and have to watch Jenny Jones and learn English from those. And you got such good vocabulary. Yes. Oh, yeah.

Sarah, what is something you think is overrated? I think texting is overrated. I think we're all texting too much. We got to stop all the texting. Like, I think it's a great tool, but I feel like there are relationships I have where, like, we only text with each other for years. And I realize that phone calls are terrifying. But I don't know. Maybe bring back postcards or something, which is like a text, but there isn't pressure to return one immediately.

You can let it simmer for a minute. I feel like we should be talking to each other more. you can let it simmer for a minute. I feel like we should be talking to each other more. Like I am feeling genuinely disturbed by how we are drifting farther and farther apart technologically. And I also like, I love not just TikTok, but any form of addictive,

scrolly, short form video the same way I loved Tumblr 10 years ago. But I was thinking about how we've come to the point where in a way it feels like if you don't make a montage about something did it even happen and like it's so cool that people have the ability to like take cinematic approaches to their own lives but again it's like it's your life you know we don't have to we don't i'm just a big Luddite who wants everyone to make bread without a recipe. That's my dream.

And just dump your whole SD card of digital photos into a Facebook album, like the ways that the ancients did 20 years ago. Maybe there's something in there. I don't know. There's some weird stuff in there. Check that out. We'll sit for a daguerreotype once a year when the daguerreotype man comes to town on his pony. Yes.

Stay very still. Very, very still. I mean, yeah, I know that feeling of like having these like purely like feels like text exclusive friendships. And they're like the way I've like is again, sometimes they're not people like you would always talk to on the phone, but somehow you just have good banter over text more than you do over like on a phone call. But then I did the thing of the bro version of escalating the socializing by being like, Hey, man, are you on PlayStation? Do you play this game? this game? Then I talk to them while playing a video game. And that becomes like sort of the basis for like a phone call or substitute. But it's interesting how sometimes you have this feeling of like, I don't know, man, like it's just kind of cool just texting somebody. But to your point, there's something much more like, I don't know, like I think being an older millennial, like I grew up talking on the phone endlessly right so i do miss that to a

certain extent but i think with adult responsibilities it's not possible to be on the phone for three hours watching cops oh my god what a dream yeah or lifetime the lifetime movie network maybe i feel like yeah there's something some inevitable process of aging, at least today, when time is marked by technology, is that details of your early life begin to sound made up. And one of them is that we could only send a certain number of texts per month. Yeah, exactly. Right, right. Or be like, dude, don't call me like fucking before eight, fool. I only have three nights. fool i don't have i only have three nights yeah we had minutes we had character limits we were very we had to be kind of economical yeah yeah i'm not i'm bad at texting in a lot of cases but yeah there are some friendships where it's like easier to just text and then i have like text exclusive friendships about where we're constantly talking about how we should hang more.

We should hang out and print the main content of the text. And it's like this plant that's like barely alive in your bathroom and you give it like a teaspoon of water every two months. Right. Like, avenge me. Yeah. like avenge me yeah or you're just like oh good thing i didn't turn the exhaust fan on while i was showering because the humidity actually nourished that plant inadvertently it's still just being alive a little bit right so yeah it feels like we have all these relationships that are like scraggly and attenuated and then we're like why do do I feel lonely? I talk to people all day. And it's like, well, not really.

Yeah. Did people used to have those types of friendships where they were like, I've got a got a drawer full of letters that I'm supposed to get back to? Like, you know, I don't know, because even then you would be like, dear Elijah, the sheep are lambing early this spring. It's like, yeah, I had to ground more wheat at the water mill than I had expected this spring. I hope you are well.

Or it gets, you know, dear Jack, let's go fishing. Yours, Ennis. Yeah, exactly. The text of old. Jack twist. Jack nasty. Just one word, letters. yeah exactly the text of old jack twist jack fishing nasty just one word letter dude my mom's favorite movie she'll always say that dude my mom fucking loves broke back mountain she's just like it's so powerful like she'll because like she's a film critic and in japan you know she's she kind of has kind of got a bit of a

reputation there and like sometimes when there's like oscar coverage that's they'll bring her on for because like you've been in la for you know 40 years covering the business blah blah and they'll be talking about like the movies that are popping right now she's like but what was it what's the best film for you she'll always always go back she's always about it i love her i respect the hell out of that. Consistent. She's consistent. She's consistent. When that's your favorite movie, that's your favorite movie.

You know, I can respect that as a Jaws fan, you know, who will bring that up no matter what. Yeah. I mean, I just brought it up there. You did. Hey, true to form. All right. there. You did. Hey, all right. Let's take a quick break and we'll come back and we'll dig into some great stuff from the podcast. You're wrong about. We'll be right back. What are we wrong about? You are wrong about. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult.

And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and LA-based Shekinah Church, an alleged cult that has impacted members for over two decades. Jessica and I will delve into the hidden truths between high control groups and interview dancers, church members, and others whose lives and careers have been impacted, just like mine. Through powerful, in-depth interviews with former members and new, chilling first-hand accounts, the series will illuminate untold and extremely necessary perspectives. Forgive Me For I Have Followed will be more than an exploration.

It's a vital revelation aimed at ensuring these types of abuses never happen again. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions. Like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or, can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job?

Girl, yes. Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Santer. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carrie Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports, where we live at the intersection of sports and culture. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Caitlin Clark

versus Angel Reese. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Every great player needs a foil. I ain't really near them. I just come here to play basketball every single day, and that's what I focus on. From college to the pros, Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports.

Angel Reese is a joy to watch. She is unapologetically black. I love her. What exactly ignited this fire? Why has it been so good for the game? And can the fanfare surrounding these two supernovas be sustained? This game is only going to get better because the talent is getting better. This new season will cover all things sports and culture. Listen to Naked Sports on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by Diet Coke. And we're back. We're back. And I think we already mentioned that you're wrong about is really, you're really good with like moral panics, the satanic panic in particular. Thank you. We have a lot to work with. Yeah, it turns out the role of evangelical Christianity in some of our biggest social movements of the past half century. And you recently had an episode about the pro-life movement that was surprising to me. I think you said this right off the bat that I was not expecting you to point out. The pro-life movement is younger than Jeff Bridges.

Than the dude. This is how we mark age now. Yes. Right. Yeah. But it's, yeah, like I guess it's specific. Like there were people who were opposed to abortion before that. But the kind of concerted, cohesive, evangelical-driven version kind of starts in 1973. And it's part of this movement by evangelicals to be like, hey, so our values, people hate them. We've got bad values.

We're pro-segregation. Nobody else seems to like that very much. They recognize that they're going the wrong way in terms of relevancy. They're in need of a real makeover. Exactly. And so, yeah, they settle on abortion, which the most well-known evangelical in the 70s was Jimmy Carter, which is like, that's not who I come to associate evangelicals with, but it was like a different time.

And at that time, you didn't necessarily, like being super violently against people's right to have an abortion was not one of the first things you associated with evangelicals. No, or with the Republican Party. And I always love to cite the fact that Betty Ford famously was a pro-choice Republican and that that was a coherent political position for the first lady to have at the time. Wow. Yeah. And Jimmy Carter being an evangelical, a bit of a social justice warrior, some would say. of evangelism in America really connects to the idea that God really is of and for the people, and that prayer is about direct communication with the divine, and that you deserve to have a connection to the Holy Spirit without there needing to be some kind of conduit. So it really is, in a way, another wave of, you know, the various religious reformations that we've seen throughout history that have made Christianity more and more egalitarian. And there's

historically been a lot of potential for good in that, and still is, but it's just that, you know, evangelical Christianity in 2024, I think, is absolutely synonymous with the unbelievably sinister, theocratic, kleptocratic, fascist dictatorship that we're now basically living in. So that's really fun. That's nice. They really should not see it going that way. Like, I guess I did because we grew up. It's the compliment sandwich. Right. You got to start with the good. And then you're like, now we have some news. We do have some news about how things have gone since then. Yeah.

I mean, you point out at one point, I forget if it was that episode or not, but just if you look at what the evangelical movement has done over the past 40 years in our lifetime. It's kind of what paranoid eras of the U.S. accused communists of doing, that there's going to be this secret takeover, that they're going to secretly infiltrate our Supreme Court. They have failed to infiltrate the media, which is nice. Interestingly, there's nothing conservatives are worse at than making media.

They tried turning their hat around backwards, turning the chair around backwards. They tried everything. And they still can't get us to buy in. Yeah. But yeah, and then it's kind of what they accused Satanists of doing in the 80s, like secretly. Yeah.

And what they're accusing, you know, all these drag queen groomers of doing now. There's a very, in any kind of abusive relationship where you think that your abuser has more complicated motives than you ultimately realize that they do it's i think largely a projection game yeah right and it seems like so many of the moral panics too like they're like you know like all the ones we've mentioned even human trafficking they're sort of like built on people's inability or like unwillingness to examine actual systemic forces. And it's just much easier to chalk it up to like, yeah, it's this other thing, man. It's these Satanists that are going, that are freaking out.

It's like, it's not that there's inequality. It's that there are these flash rob mobs where they just go through and steal everything. And it's a crime wave. And it just allows, I don't know, for people to sort of neatly put some kind of larger issue into a problem that doesn't quite actually get to the root of the cause yeah i i've been fascinated by slasher movies for a long time and i think that they do a weirdly great job of illustrating this very i think kind of core piece of american folklore where you know to use friday the 13th as the ur-example. Like, the traditional Sasha template is that somebody is wronged in the past. Jason drowns because the counselors weren't paying attention.

Too busy canoodling. That boy drowned. And then some kind of force avenging the wronged party shows up in the present. And innocent teens who are simply, simply you know smoking a joint or making out suffer and there the sort of arc of it is that you can sort of momentarily acknowledge that injustice has occurred in the past but as long as you turn a representative of that injustice into a force so dangerous that there's no proportionate response except killing them then you can justify any action in the

present and kind of even out the lecture and that feels like a really i don't know some way that we were we were thinking through with these summer camp movies the kind of dominant political ideology we were all living under yeah well it is a kind of frontier wilderness setting that everybody's familiar with and that is where you know colonial like these summer camps are fucking never populated. No. Except in sleepaway camp. They're always way out there in the woods. And then, yeah, they are being punished.

Like, I just think that at a certain level, there's, like, an unspoken knowledge amongst Americans that, like, oh, yeah, we've got it coming. Like, this has oh yeah then that like what everything we've everything you see around you is built on top of just ashes and atrocities and we've got something horrible coming and so yeah it makes sense when slasher films like it does feel like if an alien came down and just like looked at our films slasher films would be pretty difficult to explain if you if they didn't have like a psychological read on like they'd be like oh my god we feel really fucking bad about this go on? No, no, no. It would never happen.

It's just a thing we like to imagine happening to us. Why? What is wrong with you? I think we got a comment or something. I don't know. I just like, we kind of like hate ourselves. It's just kind of like an act of masochism. Yeah.

We know we are not what was intended to quote the movie Sunshine. Right. So we put the poltergeist house on top of a native american burial ground and yeah yeah that gets it out that gets it out it's just funny how like that that sort of that angst manifests in different ways sometimes in films other times and people screaming at school board meetings being like i don't want my kids to know what a civil war is or was or was about. People should be watching more horror movies, I think.

Yeah. I wonder if that's my aversion. Why am I so horror averse? I wonder. What am I? You don't feel guilty about anything. You've got a clean consciousness. Yeah, I guess there's like a black and Japanese American. I'm like, I don't know, bro. Yeah, yeah. Y'all got that shit coming. Yeah, you shouldn't feel weird

about not liking horror movies. don't know, bro. Yeah, yeah. Y'all got that shit coming. Yeah, you shouldn't feel weird about not liking horror movies. That's us, man. We're weird for liking them. Yeah. It's just, yeah, white people, four hours a week, go to the horror movie clinic, get shown a movie. Well, because I mean, like, there's also like bad, I mean, there's Japanese horror films and there's clearly, there's a laundry list of atrocities that Japan has committed to. And I wonder, are there, like, what's German horror like? Does this, is there, is there like a universal language of like sort of expressing this, like through what we consider horror?

Well, the cultural differences are really interesting. Because I feel like Japanese horror movies, there are often ghosts. Yeah, no, precisely. And we have so few ghosts nowadays in American horror. We love demons. We won't shut up about demons, to my chagrin. Germany just has Werner Herzog, who's just like, everything is a horror movie. Just three Herzog documentaries a year.

Werner Herzog's new TV hour special about crayons. Why do you need horror movies when nature is trying to kill you always? Gardening with Werner Herzog. Yeah, that's just a documentary about hummingbirds. In the abundance of these greens pushing their way out

through the soil, I see none of the divinity of springtime or the pagan gods i see only pointless but i can also use them to make a nice pesto the while we're on the subject of movies you kind of stumbled on i i don't like the andy's you did an episode on the andes rescue the uh alive story as i think it's mostly known in america the rugby team crashes in the andes is living there for months on a freaking glacier on a glacier freezing to death starving to death eventually

turned to cannibalism to avoid starving to death a couple so this past year one of the best movies i saw was society the snow which does a really good job of updating you know there was the version in the 90s alive with like ethan hawke i, you know, it was like the Hollywoodized version. Society of the Snow like updates it and like adds a lot of the humanity back to it, which was something that your episode really did. But both movies really missed something that I loved that you brought up, which is that people like they were doing bits the whole time. Right. Like, the number of bits that they did was, like, at one point, they're waiting to be rescued, and then they look off and they see an avalanche,

like a white wall coming towards them. Right. And then they realize that somebody is actually using a fire extinguisher to, like, make it look like there's an avalanche coming at them as a bit. And then they're like, they were planning bits for what to do when the helicopter arrives at the scene of their plane crash.

Talking about the funniest thing to say while they were in it. But it's just, I don't know. Generally, just movies about true stories and history feel like they have to be as humorless as a Christopher Nolan film. Right. Totally. It's just not how reality is.

I would have loved the bits in both of those movies. Oh, yeah. Because even you think about the wild stuff engineering students pull like while they're in college you know what i mean the fun they have like like jpl is nearby in la and like they do like wild just pumpkin carving contests just weird things they're like no we're using our like power like brain power to get stuff to other like the moon to have fucking fun and yet i think that like they were just i don't know at uh in where were the los alamos they were just like hanging out counting marbles or something i'm like all right i'm gonna go to bed yeah see you later like they

weren't horsing around come on now yeah no yeah those they were doing bits constantly like all throughout history and i think it i really do think it's the same reason that comedies almost never win at the Academy Awards is the reason that they feel like they need to launder movies of any like fun when they're about history. Yeah. No, this has to be serious. We can't, we have to like remove the fun, but I feel like it would just feel more lived in. And yeah, I don't know. It would be a blast if we actually saw how the people were funny at the time. Well, you know, and I think about when you think about the movies that endure and that are a part of your life and that you watch a lot like, and you know, it's different people have different requirements.

Some people have comfort movies that have no funny parts in them at all god bless sure but like aren't most of the things that you watch more than a couple times funny yeah they have fun yeah the characters are having fun or they're funny or yeah there's the you know because it's like a full spectrum of humanity it's kind of like eating an entire meal with nothing no sweetness in it at all like you can do it but it's it feels there's something missing yeah right yeah the other thing that got left out of both movies that your episode kind of restores is like it's kind of an important detail like you go from the story of them like surviving getting rescued to that that's kind of an important detail like you go from the story of them like surviving getting rescued to that that's kind of it and then like today we know them as like the cannibal people

and the the media discovering the cannibalism like the doctor checking them out and being like wait a second these guys like had to have been eating something. And then like a big like moral judgment ensues. And like everybody's like their family is like upset by it. And they're like, wait, would our parents have rather us starve to death? And then like the Catholic Church weighs in and is like, no, it's good that they were eating people, which was very cool of the Catholic church. Every so often they do something useful. Yeah. Yeah.

Every once in a while they nail it. And then the other detail was that they were like a few days walk from a hotel full of canned food was like, I don't know. It's not always the way. I can see why you left it out but jesus christ that's i mean it's like triangle of sadness like that it's yeah i don't know if you guys saw that movie i did i really liked that movie and i saw that the night that midterm results were coming in so it was like perfect for that very distracting yes oh that's a good idea just watch a really good like save a really good movie for when the for election night yeah get sucked you need to be transported for real

yeah it is i think that the kind of text curve tragedy is what makes it feel real and i think that to some extent when we tell stories that are so grim and feel so distant from us that that's a way of us feeling like it's not going to happen to us when, you know, really so many of these things are the result of being in a boat, being in a skyscraper, being in the path of a forest fire. Like we're going to have more and more epidemics and disasters and they're just going to become part of everyday life for those of us who don't feel that way yet yeah i hope we can remember to be funny and we're gonna be so funny we're gonna be the funniest generation that has ever lived that has ever lived through an apocalypse

yeah right you know the aliens will come and they're like wow as their civilization was dying they put out some of the best comedies some of these bits are really best content came right the guy made a drum set out of billionaire skulls and was touring doing solos it was really quite artistic i have to say oh yeah it'll be great i think you should leave quotes as their city was burning down well then once the grid went down they had to make those meme museums right right those were a real treat yeah that would be fun though to like figure out which memes go in the museum like you might as well just do that now i feel like it would be a good public works project biden come on yeah. Yeah. Come on. Put these, yeah,

because we're going to have so many out-of-work TikTokers when you ban the app. Yeah, exactly. You know, the new Civil Conservation Corps of meme collection and remembrance.

Yeah. All right. Let's take a quick break and we'll come back. We'll keep talking. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed.

Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and LA-based Shekinah Church, an alleged cult that has impacted members for over two decades. Jessica and I will delve into the hidden truths between high control groups and interview dancers, church members, and others whose lives and careers have been impacted, just like mine. Through powerful, in-depth interviews with former members and new, chilling firsthand accounts, the series will illuminate untold and extremely necessary perspectives. Forgive Me For I Have Followed will be more than an exploration. It's a vital revelation aimed at ensuring these types of abuses never happen again. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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And we're back. We're back. And just generally, not to put you on the spot, but I am curious, do you have some common flags that like pop up where like just at this point you've seen so many stories that are full of shit like where you're just like oh like i think one that i you mentioned during the i think it was the human trafficking episode yeah it was the human trafficking episodes because craft thing right yeah the bob craft thing where it's it's a tactic you see used by these low rent journalistic outlets like the new york times where they will just use a like the only source in the article will be a cop or multiple like law that was the first thing i was

thinking of yeah yeah. Yes. Oh, they love to do it, don't they? Yeah, and it's so interesting because it is, you know, not just within moral panics, but, you know, really any story that we get wrong or report in a biased fashion, it is just journalistic tradition in this country to write a story where the police are your only source and where you say,

police say this and that and treat it with utter credulity because that's how the profession has worked historically. And so it's an interesting area too where something that has gotten grandfathered in as a convention that we've only recently begun chipping away at has allowed for worse reporting because, you know, we've inherited it from, I don't know what, I would say basically the sense that reporters have to work with and to an extent for the police in order to get access. Yeah, that's what they've told themselves, at least. Right.

So like, we need to do this. We need to be friends with them. And, you know, talk to the people whose skulls they're cracking. They're a good source. Right. And then the sense that you're on the same side, you're on the side of the establishment, which is also, you know, hopefully that's changing. Yeah.

The Robert Kraft story in particular, Robert Kraft is the billionaire owner of the New England Patriots who got caught in a massage parlor in Florida paying for sex. And the New York Times just extensively quotes this one sheriff talking about how the women were brought in. From China. From China. From China. They were smuggled in from China. Presumably in shipping containers i don't know if that's specifically mentioned but god the trafficking people love that it's just like the

shipping container thing just get this woman a coach a seat and coach it'll be just as uncomfortable and it'll break her spirit just as well but he's the the cops and they forced to have sex with thousands of men and you know new new shipments of women every couple days or you know every week like and again the overhead of this kind of analysis think about how hard it is to manage inventory if you're selling beads just an ant like a evil massage parlor corporation with the budget of amazon you know right yeah and i hate to sound insensitive but it is like it's stuff like that where you're like what are the physical realities of even the building that we're talking about this happening in because that's such a big part of the satanic panic where the direness of the crimes people are

being accused of means that people are less likely to be like, excuse me, I was just wondering, how are this many infants going missing from hospitals every year and none of them are reporting these crimes? Because we know that people actually study real crimes that occur, and so we learn sort of, you know, it's imperfect, but we learn certainly that there are trends. And one of them is that people who kidnap babies from hospital nurseries tend to be a woman who's lost a child who's trying to replace that child. That's kind of the typical profile. And that doesn't mean it covers everything, but it means it's, you know,

that kind of accounts for the cases that people have noticed. And if there were thousands of babies needed for satanic sacrifice going missing all the time in the 80s, then why weren't hospitals noticing that? And that's just a question about, are we advancing by degrees into a worldview where none of these questions matter? And, you know, that has happened for some people clearly. But it's, I don't know, I hope it can still have a cooling effect to bring these things up. Yeah. So, I mean, when the human trafficking episode, when I first heard it, it was at the time when TikTok and social media was full of videos where people would be like, you see the zip tie on my car door handle?

The one that you could have put there? No. Impossible. Actually impossible. The one that matches the stuff that's in your trunk? I don't know. That means I've been marked for trafficking and there's probably a man under my car right now waiting to scuff me.

And it's like, cool. Why did he put the zip tie on there then? To remind himself obviously is it like parking enforcement when they chalk your tires when they're like oh this person's been here at least two hours yeah they're still there and that chalk's there i'll know but yeah it's a very like it just it obscures like the real dangers because i think that was a really eye-opening part of the episode is even understanding how we're defining trafficked people and who they are, because most of the time it doesn't conform to the very like Liam Neeson based version taken version of like trafficking that people think of. Like you were snatched up violently in broad daylight and then sent off to some, you name whatever specific horror appeals to the audience.

Right. To be one of the thousands of women servicing thousands of clients at a massage parlor next to a palmistry place with three parking spots in front of it. Also, it's like, you know, there's this great inflation of tragedy where it's like, do we care about people who've been victimized in like less extreme ways? Like, what about people? Because it and again, this ties to the satanic panic where it feels like it becomes a way of obscuring the importance of trauma that happens on a more modest scale. Not that extreme cases don't exist, but they're more rare. Yes. We take real-world tragedies that are mundane or are the things that people

just don't want to think about, and we put movie tropes over them. Like, we put the movie tropes that... Like, the warning, the zip tie thing is a perfect example because it's like movie villains love to warn you before they do a thing they like to be i'm coming for you and then like disappeared just to like danny gonzalez video i was reminded of through a youtube comment the force of literature i'm most familiar with these days. Yeah. I think about flat earthers,

but some nature of conspiracy theories where so many conspiracy theories hinge on the idea that there are these clues, there's this puzzle, you're in a Michael Douglas in the game game. And he's like, if the government was hiding something from you, then why would they leave clues to help you figure it out?

Like, why wouldn't they just not do that? Right. Because they're the snowmen. They wanted to give you all the clues, Mr. Policeman. You know, that's how they get their sick kicks. Right. And these stories where it's like where you get to imagine yourself as the hero of a complicated game or Harry Potter and your letter is coming and it's just like you're just a person. Like there are a lot of conspiracies going on. But the thing is that the people who conspire tend to be doing it in internal memos or out loud or in books that they publish.

loud or in books that they publish yes right and just they have all the money and a big enough legal team that you can't yeah point it out it's not a puzzle they just say it because they don't really think there's anything wrong with what they're doing or if they think that what they're doing is illegal then they'll you know still say it like rudy giuliani does right right and just be like so what though everybody does that actually yeah uh do they i think the other the other thing that really struck me too was just like the the way that especially things like human trafficking it's talked about is like they talk about it as if it's this this gigantic thing that's happening. Like hundreds of hundreds of thousands of people perhaps are being taken and trafficked or happen to anyone could happen to anyone. But then it's always white women in their 30s who are beginning to feel less valued by society now that they're aging visibly.

I personally think the Stepfordford wives episode right or even like or even just like the idea of you know like there were like you know certain teachers there was information circulating around about people like how to identify if one of your students are being trafficked and it's like they're depressed what if they're being abused by their very own parents right right yeah we don't care about that no no, no, no. But that's what I mean. Like that's, it's always interesting to see, like,

cause even that description was so bad. It was merely like, even you brought up on the show, it's like, you're describing a teenager, like someone who's like, uh, becoming maybe a little more,

uh, confrontational, maybe tired because they don't sleep. Maybe like, do they, do they have a barcode? Yeah. A barcode perhaps.

Like, come on now. Like, there's not skew numbers. Like this. Now, what movie is this? You would just chip them at this point. That's what I do at my child trafficking concern. Of course. That's what everybody does now.

Right. And so much of that is born out of just the way even these numbers are gathered. way even these numbers are gathered, but then people, depending on what your perspective is, well, I don't want to go off what law enforcement said that there's maybe around 500 cases. I'd rather go with the number that is by the thousands where the reporting on that is not accurate and it's quite flawed. But again, for people who want to sort of peddle this sort of myth around it, it's very convenient to be like, well, look at this reporting. I mean, now don't look too deep into how that is because it can be a child that runs away multiple times. And if a parent says, I think they're being trafficked, then we can count that

as like 10 times. Yeah. That's 10 trafficings. Yeah. That's 10 takens. Right. I just watched my own private Idaho for the first time in a really long time. And it's, you know, such a kind of artifact of 30 years ago. But it's also, you know, it's about young, like teenage hustlers working in the Northwest. And there's a scene where some of them are telling, you know, these really horrifying stories of assaults that they've experienced and what they've gone through at the hands of clients. But also, you know, that this is a picture of, you know, this pretty, you know, as far as I can tell, pretty realistic view of what it's like to be kind of on your own trying to make it in a world that's dangerous, but maybe is the only world that there can exist for you because you have no home to go back to or you were kicked out of it or your home is still less safe than being out here you know and that's i think so much more present of a danger and so much more real danger yeah than what we've been talking about as as a conservative fantasy but then it's like again that's a problem that directs our attention inwards.

And so we love to make up a bigger problem outside to distract ourselves with. Right. Trafficking is like the crimes of trafficking, the sexual abuse, the being under the influence of somebody who is exploiting you. Those things actually do happen. The numbers are not on par with like what the guy who made Sound of Freedom might lead

you to believe, but they do happen. And it's usually to, like you mentioned, like queer youth who are kicked out of their homes, just people who are living in poverty and like need a place to sleep and are therefore like forced to do things that they don't want to to just like avoid being on the street and like having their lives put in danger and but yeah those are things that are endemic systemic problems that people would rather not pay attention to and so you get this pant like it's really wild how there's not like the original like that the u.s the world is such a big place like you can you should be able to find an example of the thing that you want to happen like you can find examples of really weird versions of other kinds of crimes you can have anything you can think of someone has put in their rectum

somewhere in this country they have not come up with like they all they have is taken and now the sound of free like they have liam neeson movies and the sound of freedom like that's what they've got they don't even have their like one news story that they've like just exploited to be like that's what they've got they don't even have their like one news story that they've like just exploited to be like this happens all the time because yeah it's just there's so little there there right there needs to be a ranking system and this is like a level lower than like you know cry like stranger danger kidnappings which do occur but it's not on the scale that we ever said they did and so therefore can be blown out of proportion and used to pass laws that chip away at the rights

of defendants but but yeah we're we're now on on a lower tier the s tier if you will where nothing is real yes just the guys the guys from Liam Neeson. Like, from your perspective, do you think a lot of, you know, pushing these kinds of like moral panics because like,

the, are to do with trying to criminalize things that they don't want, but it's also, because like, inbuilt with all these moral panics, like we've just said,

is like this, just lack of desire to actually confront what these systemic forces are. And I guess by trying to solve it, then they just enact all kinds of criminal, just to try and criminalize as much shit as possible. And that's the solution. What do you think the sort of balance is between the agenda and just sort of the human nature of not wanting to actually take on a problem at all because it feels like they're they they work so hand in hand with so many things that it feels like maybe they do start with something but being like no this is an issue and then it turns into actually no immigrants are bad and you're like whoa whoa okay well which one

was it and i know that some people are absolutely on the anti-immigration thing, but a lot, I think people get pulled in probably because it's the don't want to confront the realities of what's going on inside of the coin, maybe. Yeah, yeah. And I think that there's, I think some, you know, this kind of connects with the pro-life movement. And as you've been saying, I think that something, you know, the human trafficking panic, the satanic panic, a really strong moral panic feels like it endures and it returns and it never really leaves us, partly because it comes from so many fronts and also because it addresses some kind of real concern. such a huge takeoff in the summer of 2020 of you know the claim that you can't put your kid in a

mask because that's that makes it easier for the human traffickers do you remember that we were doing that for a while i was like you can't put your kid in a mask because god knows you can't tell what your child looks like right with their face covered you don't like wash their clothes and do their hair right and you know and that felt to me this at least was what i thought at the time and still think some kind of response to the fact that like we understood that what was happening was really really bad for kids you know like i was very conservative, small C conservative, careful conservative about, you know, I didn't go into like a place of business for like a full year. I was extremely strict with myself in terms of COVID cautiousness just because I knew that if I gave myself any parameter to screw up, I probably would. And I had sort of sensitive people in my orbit, I mean, immune system wise. So, you know, just being fully on, you know, that being my life at the time, I felt, I still felt as it's very reasonable to feel that like we were all being

sort of broiled alive psychologically and there was nothing we could do about it and that this was dangerous for children. And I think that that the kind of the way the trafficking panic about children took root at that time i think and maybe this is charitable of me but i don't think it's you know it's not me being nice to say this it's just kind of thinking about what would be on people's minds that like if you want and also cynically if you want to whip up a panic, you look at what are parents upset about? They know that something bad is going on in terms of their children's welfare. So you can invent something that they would rather be the bad thing going on. Right.

Yeah. And just everybody's under a lot of emotional turmoil. We're not thinking critically. Right. In those periods so much. Yeah. Yeah. i certainly wasn't but i think just ultimately the point that you land on in that episode is to kind of understand what is actually at stake and what is actually the intention of this concern over human trafficking like when they actually bust a quote unquote human trafficking

ring, like there's an example of a place that was providing, you know, services for sex workers in Seattle and it got busted. And, you know, when they're criminalizing the people, they don't seem interested in taking care of the victim. They basically tell the victim, like you can go to jail for sex work or you can like go to this shelter where we'll take away your phone and internet, you know, like a trafficker would like,

you know, like we'll now we'll treat you like we are. We're the good guys. So don't even worry about it. Yeah. But yeah, it's... And a lot of it, like, I mean, people should go listen to the episode. There's also some really, you know, that you're much more likely to be called out as a trafficker

if you're part of, like, an interracial family these days. And that actually goes back to what the intent of the original trafficking laws were, was like, you know, anxiety over slavery ending and women's rights happening. And like they needed a way to make it against the law for interracial couples to date each other. And perceived advances in civil rights seem like a really important ingredient for moral panics, too. Yes. Absolutely. Because what was it like? I think there was something that was that was in the episode was essentially that like around any kind of trafficking pipeline, it always led to some kind of anti-immigration sentiment.

Oh, yeah. Like it was just sort of like that was like the that was the sort of sequence there. just sort of like that was like the that was the sort of sequence there and i think just like yeah with like so many things like so many of these sort of moral panics right like whether it's the anti-choice movement or human trafficking like the rhetoric is so victim focused yeah and but really you just but it really reveals itself how much the victims were merely just sort of the inroad to the criminalization of something because at the end of the day there's no one actually advocating for helping the victims in any meaningful way for all the people like, well, then, yeah, how about adoption? That's a route without having to have an abortion. But we have we do fuck all in terms of creating a

system that helps people, whether that's like a foster care system or making it easier to adopt. It's just like it just falls apart. It's just sort of like, let me just chum the water with this first part. And then if you're really asking me to do the work. Oh, no, I'm not. I falls apart. It's just sort of like, let me just chum the water with this first part, and then if you're really asking me to do the work, oh, no, I'm not. I'm not. It's more about the other. It all comes back to Chaz. Yeah. Chumming the water. Thanks, baby. Sarah,

what a pleasure having you. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us. What a delight. My gosh. Where can people find you and follow you and all that good stuff? Ooh, you can find me at you follow you and all that good stuff? you can find me there. And also, I live in Portland and am always looking for fun stuff to do. So, if you have an event or an art thing or a fun, I don't know, you got a neat squash variety, let me know about it. There you go. And is there a work of media that you've been enjoying? Either a tweet, anything from a tweet to a film i'm so happy you asked because i

fell in love recently with i don't know if either of you remember this but the web series chris fleming did like 10 years ago gail there's like 40 episodes of it there's a whole arc gail is the ultimate high-strung mom from Massachusetts. I agree. An absolute genius. The Gail series got me through the darkest days of winter, and there's an episode, I think, called The Dinner Party Part Two, where Gail forces her acapella troupe to lip-sync to Yanni live at the Acropolis. And it is still one of the funniest things I have ever seen in my whole life. And the Holy Spirit was in Chris Fleming that day. That's what I believe. Amazing. Miles, where can people find you?

Is there a work media you've been enjoying? Yeah, at Miles of Grey on Twitter and Instagram. Obviously, you know about Mad Boosties. You know about 420 Day F find me there also uh work immediate man these korean reality shows on netflix they get me all the time there's a new season of the show physical 100 that's out that's like just about like i guess they just pick like a hundred fit people to do just like the wildest stuff like the first thing is like who can just run stuff. Like the first thing is like, who can just run on it?

Yeah. The first season is like, who can just hang off this grid until their muscles give out or like in the second season, the second season, the first challenge they do to like start sorting people's like, who's just going to run so hard on these treadmills. Like,

and it's just like this. Yeah. Just as someone. Yeah. Yeah. As someone who would never do that, I'm always like, wow, I'm just fascinated by people who are just such physical specimens. And it's just a very interesting way to watch a competition reality show and learn some

Korean along the way also. So yeah, that's what I'm watching. Amazing. Tweet I've been enjoying. Jason Smiley tweeted a picture of Lenny kravitz looking shredded and said lenny kravitz turned 60 in a couple months what's your excuse and then honey i am a guy and i shrunk the kids on twitter retweeted that and wrote i don't understand was i supposed to kill him what's your excuse

excuse uh you can find me on twitter at jack underscore o'b excuse you can find me on twitter at jack underscore o'brien you can find us on twitter at daily zeitgeist we're at the daily zeitgeist on instagram we have a facebook fan page and a website dailyzeitgeist.com where we post our episodes and our footnotes where we link off to the information that we talked about

in today's episode as well as a song that we think you might enjoy miles is there a song that you think people might enjoy? Yeah, there's some new Krungbin. I love Krungbin. I love the vibes. I like being dreamy out there. They're a great, great band.

They have a new track called May 9th that's out that came out just this year. So check this out. This is May 9th from Krungbin. May the 9th be with you. All right, we will link off to that in the just this year. So check this out. This is May 9th from Chromebin. May the 9th be with you. All right, we will link off to that in the footnotes. The Daily Zeke is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. That is going to do it for us this morning. Back this afternoon to tell you what is trending, and we will talk to you all then. Bye. Bye. I'm Keri Champion, Bye. Bye. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry, Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese,

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hey, I'm Gianna Pardenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice.

And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church.

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