The Daily Zeitgeist - Why The US Is A Bad Place To Grow Old 01.09.24

Episode Date: January 9, 2024

In episode 1603, Jack and guest co-host Ben Bowlin are joined by estate attorney Diana Law to discuss the impending unprecedented demographic shift in which the global population is about to be older than it's ever been before, the rising cost of elder care and the difficulties the non-wealthy have leaving an inheritance for their families. Dying Broke In America – https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/14/health/long-term-care-facilities-costs.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare What It Looks Like in Other Countries – https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/14/health/long-term-care-insurance-global.html?action=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article Baby Boomer Expected Wealth Transfer – https://fortune.com/2023/12/22/older-baby-boomers-won-pandemic-14-trillion-richer-wealth/ Getty Trust: Why the super rich are the only ones who leave money to relatives -  https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/01/23/the-getty-familys-trust-issues The Dependency Ratio – https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/glossary/dependency-ratio/ LISTEN: Float by Janelle MonáeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me for I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and Shekinah Church. Listen to Forgive Me for I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry.

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Hello, the internet, and welcome to Season 320, Episode 2 of The Daily Lightcase, a production of iHeartRadio. This is a podcast where we take a deep dive into the American Shared Consciousness. And it is tuesday january 9th 2024 uh just three days late um we missed missed our big day over the weekend but uh i was saying ben don't you think isn't it kind of weird like to be celebrating january 6th on a weekend like you don't get to like dress up for work or like do any of the fun stuff that we normally do for january 6th right right well anyways my name's jack o'brien aka ball so hard

motherfuckers think it's giants um that is courtesy of just pruitt uh in reference to the femur uh that somebody thought was a giant's balls before they knew what dinosaurs were. I'm thrilled. We're thrilled to be joined by a very special guest co-host, a writer, who's one of the best podcast hosts and executive producers doing it. You know him from Stuff They Don't Want You To Know, Ridiculous History. Please welcome the brilliant and talented Ben Bowling! A.K.A. Dr. Awkward. That is a palindrome.

That's a deep cut from an old friend who, believe it or not, Jack, is just as nerdy as us, but a bit more clever. Damn, Dr. Awkward is a palindrome. Hot damn. I think you've said that before, but I don't think it sunk in. I was busy doing something else when you told me that last time. Just like on January 6th. Yeah, exactly. I wasn't there. What are you talking about? You can't prove anything. That's a great palindrome. Great AKA. How are you doing, Ben? Oh, so well.

Fellow Zeitgang folks, you may have heard some of the scuttlebutt regarding aviation misadventures on the part of boeing i recently uh returned from a flight uh domestic u.s flight and there was i kid thee not a gap do not kid the right i i what's the the version of me iest iest yes i don't know i just made that up that's terrible it's uh what is uh yeah what wouldn't anyway let's not get let's not get stuck in that uh because the window in the exit seat where i sat was certainly not stuck to the rest of the plane the plastic panel was out i saw that on yeah i saw picture. That was unnerving, especially after

they had a little blowout on Alaska. I actually flew Alaska to go back east to see my family over the break and had the thought, Alaska can't be working with the highest quality planes, right? I feel like these are third-hand consignment at this point i was like like you know we're hitting turbulence and i was having an existential crisis as i do every time we hit turbulent like it gets worse with age for me for some reason like i thought age yeah like i thought i didn't notice turbulence when i was a kid and my kids certainly don't notice it

but uh i am immediately contemplating my death every time there's turbulence i love it jack i was sitting i was sitting on this plane and we did have turbulence as well and i'm looking i'm looking through this gap uh one person on twitter uh or x has people prefer sometimes one person on Twitter said, Ben, you know, it's just a, it's, it's a cosmetic thing, right?

You're inside a metal tube and there's a smaller plastic tube within there. And what you're seeing is the plastic tube, not quite aligning, but everything is safe. And my response, honestly, as you and I are both aging, everyone listening is aging. My response was such a classic cheapskate Ben move. I was thinking, well, you know what?

Why would I go to an amusement park? Why would I pay extra for a rollercoaster experience when I can just be on a plane? We can be on an unsafe airline. You know what i mean i'm saving money hand over fist yeah pretty smart pretty smart gotta pack it in where you can anyways well we're glad you made it back and didn't have that window blow out and then get sucked out which apparently doesn't happen that every movie when there's a hole in the side of a plane that hole turns into a sucking vortex which just like keeps creating larger and larger like sucking larger pieces of the plane off or

like pulling people out and like they just landed that shit like it was you know top down summer day uh no like people were definitely people were taking videos they were like that window is fucking open bro but like no nobody was getting sucked anywhere the pilot's like okay it turns out this uh this ride is a convertible so we're just gonna park with the top off yeah anyways ben enough with us non-experts we're joined for our expert episode by a true, real expert, a decorated attorney, the youngest ever president of the Kane County Bar Association, who's been appointed

Kane County Public Guardian, which means she's in charge of protecting residents who have no one else to help them. Please welcome Diana, motherfucking love! Thank you very much. I'm very happy to be here diana i'm guessing on what the m stands for because your your name is listed diana m law did i get it it is diana m

law diana motherfucking was that absolutely yes my parents chose that no No, I'm a Marie like everyone else in the 70s. My dad has five sisters and they're all named Mary. Mary something. Yeah, yeah. Because Catholicism. Diana, wonderful to have you. Where are you coming to us from? Thank you. I'm coming to you from a very chilly snowy aurora

illinois aurora i've heard of that place um wayne's world absolutely this is how it's straight west of chicago so about an hour out with traffic okay but about 35 miles straight west oh man it is uh 59 degrees in los angeles and oh don't do that fucking freezing no no it's like it's everybody is complaining to one another like we can do it because we're all in los angeles so we we're all like in the same world of just having the layer between us and the world and the weather just like diminished to the point that we're, we basically have no skin at this point. So it's just, we're,

we're such babies. We're just such babies. 59 is freezing. It is below zero, uh, for Los Angeles temperatures. And I just wanted to make sure the audience hated me before we moved on. good.

Yes. Okay. Checking that off. Diana, as we are an audio show, I feel it is important for everybody to know you have a beautiful window view right now of the outdoors, which looks pretty snowy. Very snowy. Yeah. I love snow. I mean, Jack, I'm going to go out on a snowy limb here and say you are possibly. Don't do that. It's slippery. Frightened of snow? No, no, I'm not frightened.

I grew up back east. I spent a lot of time. I lived in Massachusetts for a number of formative years of my life. I've been through snow. I just, it's, there's something about LA where it's like our, our wardrobes are not built for anything under 65 degrees.

And like the buildings are not built for it. So you go inside and it just gets fucking freezing. Like there's just i got not heard of insulation i got an emergency text from some friends in los angeles uh when it rained yeah a while back scary out here diana they were they were legitimately sincerely concerned you guys don't understand. It's not just cold. It's also windy.

Have you heard of this? Wind? Diana, surely you have not. We have plenty of wind. Yeah. We have plenty of wind in the Windy City. And actually, it didn't snow for Christmas. I think we might have actually been warmer than you.

We were in the high 50s on Christmas Day, which was a little unnerving because I'm used to having my cold, white Christmas. Yeah. And it was more like a spring day. Everyone's walking around in shorts over here. Yeah, yeah. And that is, you know, people from Massachusetts will,

if it's over 32 degrees, like they're the other end of the annoying spectrum, where if it's over 32 degrees, they will wear short sleeves and then make fun of you for being cold or for worrying about their skin. Look at this guy wearing his pants! Alright, well Diana, we are excited to talk to you. We're going to talk about sort of a large issue that kind of goes under

covered uh in mainstream media the new york times actually just did a big article about it but basically america's aging uh population that we're we're headed for a demographic shift that will be unprecedented, uh, in our lifetimes. And, um, you know, uh, it's,

it's, it's going to be a mess, especially given the way America is currently constituted. yes. And we're, we're, it's like one of those stories that we're not good at paying attention to because we're scared of death.

Like we, we don't like our own mortality and so there's just all sorts of things working against us here you work uh up to your elbows in this field uh getting your hands dirty in this field and helping people so uh we're going to talk to you about that but before we do we do like to ask our guests uh to get to know them a little bit better what is something from your search history that's revealing about who you are my search history so my husband and i actually watched all we binged fargo that whole series over the break when we were home for the holidays and my sister-in-law mentioned to me that kirsten

dunst was married to jesselemons, which I found surprising. So I did kind of a deep dive on his career and looking at all the things that he's been in. And sometimes I get on these little research projects and then all of a sudden hours have gone by and I don't know how that happens. But other than that, it's mostly travel blogs and white calf boots and other things that I might need for the weather. and white calf boots and other things that I might need for the weather. Diana, what's something about Jesse Plemons that really struck you as extraordinary? As extraordinary that he's married to Kirsten Dunst? Okay, like the second most extraordinary.

I mean, that's extraordinary. It's good for that, man i must be amazing in a room must be but he's also i do get like a nice calm feeling when he shows up on a on a film screen i'm like there's something about his energy i think he resonates like a midwesterner i actually found in my search he's born in texas but he's very he seems like a Midwesterner. I actually found in my search he's born in Texas, but he's very, he seems like a Midwesterner, like someone I would go have a cocktail with at the little dive bar up the street. Yeah. Yeah. And he wouldn't have a cocktail, but he'd be cool about the fact that you were having a cocktail. I feel like he would, you'd just have some interesting facts. He would know someone who knows someone. And every character Jesse Plemons plays, the guy really came into his own, I would argue. Every character that he plays has this kind of grounded, and I agree with you, Diana, grounded Midwestern vibe and approach that brings the realism home i remember i remember uh because i am not good at pop culture i remember seeing the guy one time and thinking i i was arguing with my girlfriend i was like come on that's just that's matt damon right that's like definitely matt damon right and i was incorrect oh yeah someone once described uh lonzo Ball as looking like if a seventh grader tried to draw Drake.

And I feel like Jesse Plemons is what happens if a seventh grader tries to draw Matt Damon. It's like not quite there. It's like, you know. Like you're hitting it kind of. It's a bad drawing. But yeah. It's the Plem but yeah it's um the Plemons

of it all without really noticing it I've discovered that I'm like a big Jesse Plemons fan so there's this new movie from Alex Garland who's like a filmmaker that I really liked Annihilation

his movie starring Natalie Portman sci-fi movie very cool um i haven't seen men a lot of people like ex machina and so i mean he's like an interesting filmmaker i'm excited to see what he does next at all times he's uh he wrote 28 days later i think he has a new movie called Civil War coming out. And it looked bad to me. Like the trailer looked like it could be a Daily Wire movie. Like if the politics were just like slightly shifted. But then the last scene that they show has Jesse Plemons in a pair of like bright red sunglasses.

Just being like really weird uh and i was like back on board that's all it took was just seeing a weird energy from jesse plemmons and i was like all right i'm in i'm gonna watch this fucking probably three hour movie because yeah that plemmons in bright red tinted shades? Yeah. That's not a Plemons I've seen. I've seen them without bright red tinted shades. So what must this be like?

That's a good question. Diana, Jack, do you all think that Kirsten Dunst knows that she's married to Jesse Plemons or does she think it's Matt Damon? Oh, that's actually an excellent question. Yeah. Oh, she knows. I think they're just both incredible actors who respect the great acting of it all would be my guess. She's so good in that Fargo season. Yes. It's just amazing.

Fargo is a masterwork. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Just amazing. Fargo is a masterwork. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Is he in Fargo? Feels like he should be all over the place in that show. Yeah, he was in the season where he's married to Kirsten Dunst in the show. Oh, he is. Okay.

Okay, that makes sense. I don't know which season it is. They kind of all blur together after five days of nonstop Fargo. Man, that first season still hits. The Billy Bob Thornton, what what a blast that was one of my favorite uh tv characters i've seen in a while what diana is something you think is overrated overrated i think a lot of things are overrated my parents would tell you that the only thing in life that's not overrated is having grandchildren.

But I think... Oh, no. I gave them two. But I do think for the purpose of what we're going to talk about today, what I think is something that's hugely overrated right now is a college education or formal education after high school. And I say that for several reasons, but I think there's a huge trade gap right now. And there are kids that are going to college who don't have the finances to go to college. They're getting themselves in a huge amount of debt. And then they're graduating with a degree that's really not going to give them the type of job that is going to help them to pay for that debt that they just have now incurred. And on the flip side, if you join a trade now, they're so desperate for people to work in the trades that there are so many trade organizations that I know about locally. Actually, one of my clients has what's called a blue collar scholar where they will pay you

a sign-on bonus. Then they train you. You just have to work there for two years. So those kids are grad, you know, they're with their peers. Those kids that go in the trades are now making six figures by the time their peers are out of college and their peers are now into debt if their parents didn't pay or they didn't get scholarships. And so even if you do go to college, I think it's important to look at what's going to be my return on investment. And can I go to a less expensive school? Can I go to, you know, can I study something that's going to get me a job right out of college as opposed to, great, you got that degree, but now you really have to get a master's before anyone is going to hire you to do that. And then you're adding on debt. So that's what

I would think is one of the things that's overrated. 100% agree. It's, unfortunately, I have some firsthand experience with that. Can't speak for everybody, Diana, but I fondly recall every conversation I've had with one of my childhood best friends who went into HVAC when your boy went to get an English degree. As my father pointed out, oh, you're getting a degree in a language you already speak. Yeah. Can you build a house? And the trades get, I think.

Unfairly maligned. Yeah. Yeah, unfairly maligned is Yeah. Yeah. Unfairly maligned. It's a great way to say it. Yeah. When, I don't know, we actually just had to have at the studio here, I'm recording this from the studio and we just had to have the,

uh, English degree guy come out to take a look at our, uh, English use of English language in the, uh, in the studio walls, uh, had to check your chaucer.

Yeah, exactly. Um, no, sorry. Sorry.. Yeah, exactly. No, sorry, sorry. Proceed. But I think that's an excellent thing, you know? And also it goes to our larger conversation today, right? Yeah. Like the idea of economic disparity

and the origins and future thereof. I mean, yeah, the financial precarity of basically everyone who's not extraordinarily wealthy was really driven home by the research for today's subject. It's just, it's, you are, you know, an aging parent's health crisis away from really being in trouble uh because the the country does not is not built to to help out in situations like that the way that other countries are it's built to be like sort of a fucking high stakes casino in all things um and be proud of that i guess

which just fucking sucks what uh i mean i I will just say, like, I think education's great. You just, like, in the current system where, you know, everything is so financially precarious. Like, yeah, it's, and, like, the system seems to be currently built to favor predatory everything, like financial predators. So whether that be loans or whether that be people who are just preying on you when you're in desperate need of a place to help you with your parents' health care. Absolutely.

It's really designed for them and not us in a lot of ways. So it's a difficult place to be in debt. And unfortunately, the system is designed to drive you into debt via college education in a lot of cases. But hold on. At the other end, you can reverse your mortgage. Oh, yeah, that is a good cases. But hold on, at the other end, you can reverse your mortgage. Oh yeah, that is a good point. I was just looking into that.

Tom Selleck, my good buddy Selleck, was helping me out with that. He has some interesting ideas. Yeah. What is something you think is underrated, Diana? Underrated? I think I have to say, last year, not an ideal time to start this in Illinois in January, but I started

taking a daily walk and I would walk for 45 minutes outside, no matter the weather. If it was really, really bad, I would take my walking pad into the garage and lift up the garage door. But I went outside and I didn't really know why I loved it so much. And I was talking to one of my clients whose kid is a doctor and he says, well says well Diana it's because if you spend at least 30 minutes outside every day it's the same as taking an antidepressant and so I noticed from my Apple Watch after I just done this for about a week my resting heart rate went down about seven or eight beats a minute and I think because you're outside even if it's cloudy you get the vitamin D so there was lots of health benefits. It's easy. It's free. It's simple. And it made a big difference. So I'm a big proponent of that daily walk. Yeah. Again, a great idea that this

design of our towns and cities in many cases not designed for because that is not profitable. Nobody's making money off of that. As you mentioned, it's free, and so there's a lot of stroads and street roads that make walking hard and strip malls easy. Jack, are you not subscribed to Walk Plus? Walk Plus, that's true. Walk Plus is actually a great product who we'll hear more from right now.

We're going to take a quick break and then we'll come right back. I'm Jess Casavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix documentary series, Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and LA-based Shekinah Church, an alleged cult that has impacted members for over two decades. Jessica and I will delve into the hidden truths between high control groups and interview dancers,

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It's a vital revelation aimed at ensuring these types of abuses never happen again. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week we answer your unfiltered work questions.

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Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports, where we live at the intersection of sports and culture. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry, Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game.

Every great player needs a foil. I ain't really near them boys. I just come here to play basketball every single day, and that's what I focus on. From college to the pros, Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Angel Reese is a joy to watch. She is unapologetically black. I love her. What exactly ignited this fire?

Why has it been so good for the game? And can the fanfare surrounding these two supernovas be sustained? This game is only going to get better because the talent is getting better. This new season will cover all things sports and culture. Listen to Naked Sports on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by Diet Coke. And we're back and yeah so the u.s and the world at large are going through uh not like it's begun uh an unprecedented demographic shift where the population of the world uh is about to

be older than it ever has been before about to be older than it ever has been before probably currently is older than it ever has been before and will continue to get older and older so i one of the things we're going to talk about is just like financially what that means for the world and that might seem callous but i think so i i've talked a lot before on the show about the dependency ratio i think it's quietly one of the most important metrics for explaining the like economic fates of different countries in the 20th century but the the basic idea is when you have a larger population that is working age versus the portion that is either too young or old to work, that is good. So you put the babies and elderly on one side of a scale

and people 18 to 65 on the other. And the more the people 18 to 65 outweigh the ones who can't work, your economy is going to do better. And so the U.Ss had a ton of economic success during the second half of the 20th century at the same time that the baby boom was moving through the 18 to 65 portion of their lifespan and i think part of the reason we don't talk about the dependency ratio is they want to you know baby boomers are still enormously powerful and they want to believe that the success was due to like individualistic achievement and not just like dumb

demographics so we don't hear as much about the dependency ratio china is another really good example of the dependency ratio their one child policy gave them an extremely favorable dependency ratio for a while and now will lead to an extremely unfavorable one as sort of the you know it was good when the artificially smaller generation due to the one child act uh or one child policy was too young to work but now they are moving through the workforce and the baby boom that made them put that policy in the place in the first place is now retiring. And so they have an artificially small workforce population and a very large aging population. Add to that, in the case of China, add to that the femicide. Right. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

at the femicide right yeah of course yeah um the so truly uh like this is something that macro economists pay a lot of attention to um and so another thing you're hearing a lot about is like the impending wealth transfer from baby boomers. They have more wealth than most other aging demographics, not just because they're such a massive portion of the population, but also because they've had a lot of success, possibly due to the favorable demographics. But they have a lot of money. They're headed for retirement. And I see a lot of money they're headed for retirement and a lot of i see a lot of like

business articles being like guys it's time to capitalize like here's where you need to like cash in and they're assuming that a lot of that money will be inherited will go from baby boomers to the next generation but there's this article that we've talked about a couple times in the past year um where the new yorker profiled like the getty family trust and like what what that looks like where the when the extremely wealthy are thinking about you know financial planning and how to make sure that no taxes are paid or as little taxes as possible are paid um and that article points out that the average american passes along 46 000 like once once they pass away um and i think that's going to get less and less as more and more people are living longer and longer and our healthcare system is just like

set up to support them less and less so that's just kind of the big picture broad context of why i think this is important why this moment has come i think to like have this conversation um but diana like what does this look? Because I think this ends up being a lot of what you do, right? Is working with people who are older and don't have any institution or family left to take care of them. I do both. So I'm an estate planning lawyer and a retirement planning lawyer. So half my time is really taking care of my clients who are coming in to get their estate plan in order and talking about how they want to leave their money when they do pass away. And the other half is really boots on the ground. As public guardian, I get assigned by the court to take care of people who don't have any honest and reliable loved ones. And so they

are in some type of crisis. Maybe they have dementia. Maybe they have Parkinson's. And they cannot make decisions on their own anymore. They don't have decisional capacity. So I get appointed to be their guardian to make their medical decisions and their financial decisions. So in that half of my job, I really feel more like a social worker. So I love it because I get to help my clients get their situations taken care of so they never need somebody like me as public guardian stepping in and then i help my people that that

are pretty helpful yeah and do you like do you have an opinion i guess on does the system seem like it is equipped to like take care of the massive number of people who are entering this phase of their life? How does the security net for the elderly kind of look from where you're standing? So that's an interesting question. And I think part of what's important to do is kind of clarify what is there to pay for these older persons that need care. And so when you look at Medicare and Medicaid, they're two sort of sides of the coin. They were both put into law in 65 at the same time. And what Medicare pays for is for anything that you're going to get better from. So it's an entitlement benefit, which means if you've worked long enough in the system and you are able to get Social Security, then you're able to get Medicare, regardless if you are a multimillionaire or if you are super poor.

You are entitled to get Medicare, and Medicare will pay for things like that hip replacement, that cardiovascular surgery that you need, removal of a brain tumor. They'll pay for the rehab for that hip replacement. So if you're going to get better, those doctor's visits, hospital visits, your drugs, Medicare is going to cover that. On the flip side, you have Medicaid. And so Medicaid, and when I'm talking about Medicaid, it's not people in the community. I'm talking about AABD Medicaid for elderly people who need to be in an assisted living facility or a skilled care nursing home, that type of Medicaid is not an entitlement benefit. You don't automatically get it. You actually have to be impoverished in order to get Medicaid. And so every state runs it a

little different. But for here in Illinois, you have to get down to only having around $130,000 in assets plus a house and a car if you're married. And then if you're not married, you have to be down to $17,500 and have no other assets. And so they really want you to spend everything before you are able to get Medicaid. And Medicaid covers those things that you're not going to get better from.

You have dementia, you have Parkinson's, you have MS. You're going to need room and board at a long-term care facility. Medicare doesn't cover that. You need to be impoverished to get the government to pay for that through the Medicaid. So there's nothing for people who have dementia and they have to spend all of their money essentially to then be taken care of by the government. There's not a thing that if somebody has a condition, a terminal condition, that we'll pay for that and allow them to leave inheritance to somebody. So for the people that are spending all of their money on nursing home and long-term care costs, which is a huge reason that these assets will be depleted

before they get to the next generation, that's for people who have not done any planning. There's planning that we do at our firm. It's either a crisis because all of a sudden you're like, oh shit, mom had a stroke. She's going to the nursing home tomorrow. And then there's people who have at least five years to do the planning. So if they do come to us and they have at least five years to do this planning before they ever need to go on the Medicaid program, we can use different types of irrevocable trusts. It is a great tool, but it requires planning ahead and also having someone that you trust to manage that while you're alive if you become incapacitated. Right. I've known so many people that, like I've heard it referred to as the sandwich generation where it's like people who have kids that they're still taking care of and then elderly people who, you know their kids and then have to take care of

elderly relatives and because of this thing that the united that has happened in the united states steadily over the course of like the last 50 years where small government has become like a cool thing that like the thing that both parties strive for and it's basically like built on like reaganomics and the idea that like well the you know government is the worst people to have your money like you don't want to pay taxes and they're going to spend it inefficiently and what that essentially means is that you become a bureaucrat like when it becomes something that you like uh you have to deal with medicaid uh you have to like help uh your relative through this system it becomes a full-time job because those those networks are so vastly understaffed and byzantine yes yeah i mean look at our fucking tax systems yeah absolutely

like our tax system could be like other countries have tax systems where they just give you the bill it's like a fucking restaurant you know they're like here's what you owe we can figure this out we have him we have access to this information more so than you do. Here's what you owe. And then ours where they're like, alright. Yes. How well do you know long division and theoretical mathematics? Hey, guess how much money you owe? Oh, okay. What happens if I'm

wrong? Jail. Yeah. How well are you familiar with the career of Wesley Snipes? Exactly. Blade's back on the career of Wesley Snipes? Exactly. Blade's back on the way, folks. So stay tuned. Also, Diana, this hits on something that I find fascinating.

As we were talking about a little bit off air, this is an issue that will only continue to increase in mainstream importance with the broader context that you've set up here, Jack. I'm thinking in terms, it's weird to me that a lot of the political discourse about this goes back to food analogies, because you mentioned the sandwich generation. I'm thinking also of what was called the donut hole gap in Medicaid or Medicare. Right. Yeah. When you get to your prescriptions.

Yeah. Yeah. So there's, I just feel like we're knocking it out of the park with the food analogy. Yeah. Is what I'm saying. Congratulations, Doth. And that is mainly what's going to keep us comfortable into our old age is food analogies. Because you can eat, actually I'm being told you cannot eat

food analogies, so we're fucked. Oh, my bad. What? Oh, no, no, leave it in. All right, we're wrong. But, Diana, there's also the question that I think a lot of us are thinking about now, which is when people have the luxury or the wherewithal, uh, financially or just time-wise to plan ahead, it is for their benefit. Uh, what, what happens when people are, as you said, in that crisis moment, you know, you have, you have become widowed instantly and you have a lot of hard choices to make you're uneducated about this like we we can't talk about this without talking about something that jack you set up uh quite astutely earlier which is the idea of inheritance in in your in in your work how do you see people handling inheritance like is it a state-by-state thing is it like a capture of some sort of treasure chest of uh of uh spoils

of war that just goes through generations or Or like, how do people navigate this? So it's very interesting. I always say when my clients come in, they'll say, well, is this the normal thing to do? I say, well, normal is just the setting on a dryer. Really, you can do whatever you want to do. If you can dream it, I can draft it. And so- Great setting on the dryer, by the way.

It's the only one I ever use, but proceed. So we really have to work with people to see what they want to do. I mean, I recently had a client die and he was mega, mega wealthy. He has over a hundred million dollars in assets and he really didn't like his children. So they're getting less than 1% each of his net worth. When it's all said and done, he decided to give everything to charity. It's interesting you bring up the widows because I do sit with a lot of women who have lost their husband and I have to have tough conversations where I say, guess what? He chose the big pension, which means it doesn't continue now. He chose to have it just go for his life. It doesn't go

for your life. You also get one social security check. You can choose the larger check of the two, but it's not a BOGO deal. They're taking away one of those social security checks and your husband's pension. Now, sometimes the husbands- BOGO is buy one, get one. Buy one, get one. Yes. Thank you. So a lot of times these women are sitting in front of me, and they all of a sudden realize their income has now just been cut in a third of what they were getting when their husband was around so they are tough conversations i do see a lot of people including charities i see a lot of people it's interesting to me i feel like my clients who are sort of comfortably wealthy

are more stingy of what they want to give to their children. I find that so hard to believe. The wealthy? No. No way. Not a chance. Not them. We're counting on them to save us. What are we going to do? The 4 to 10 million couples, they want to hold on to everything as tight as they can.

My clients that are more meager means they're the ones that want to do everything for their kids. They just want to move all the money. is like just take it take it away take it now i just want them to have my money now i don't need anything i'll just go on medicaid and just take it now which of course is not the way we can typically do things depending on the timing of it but but just like big picture and i do just want to come back to this getty thing one more time because a lot of times what you hear is that america just like doesn't value the elderly and so like it's a cultural thing i i think that at the very least that is like a two-way street where because the government

doesn't take care of the elderly and makes it a huge burden onto the private citizen then like that makes it that like feeds into how americans feel about their elderly relatives because they are you know a burden to them financially and financial success is like all anybody cares about but the so this is not like part of the thing driving the lack of resources and like how stingy we're having to be with regards to like staffing any of these things uh letting people have uh access to like public health care in old age part of the reason that that's not funded is because there's been a massive change since the 1970s where the average tax rate on the top 0.01 percent has fallen by more than half to about 30 percent while rates for the bottom 90 percent have climbed slightly

to an average of 25 percent the like there was a prevailing suspicion of any extremely wealthy person who was you know passing away trying to leave that money for themselves and like since the 70s any taxation on like estate planning has just been completely dismantled and there's just like nobody pushing back because there's just been this favor uh that's been awarded to the extremely wealthy and you know as mentioned they will take advantage of that and they have entire teams companies worth of people working on making sure they can right yeah i mean it's like uh it wasn't too long ago in the in the new yorker article you're citing wasn't too long ago that members of the Supreme Court said, hey, basically, taxes are what you pay as like your club fees for being in this America thing, right?

Yeah. You are part of this larger American experiment. Yeah. larger american experiment yeah oliver wendell holmes said taxes are what we pay for civilized society and they used to be kind of understood and no more now it's vilified yeah all right let's take a quick break we'll be right back i'm jess casaveto executive producer of the hit netflix documentary series, Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church.

And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me For I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and LA-based Shekinah Church, an alleged cult that has impacted members for over two decades. Jessica and I will delve into the hidden truths between high control groups and interview dancers, church members, and others whose lives and careers have been impacted, just like mine. Through powerful, in-depth interviews with former members and new, chilling, first-hand accounts, the series will illuminate untold and extremely necessary perspectives. Forgive Me For I Have Followed will be more than an exploration. It's a vital revelation

aimed at ensuring these types of abuses never happen again. Listen to Forgive Me For I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions. Like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or, can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes.

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and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it, like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but that quote. What is it like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carrie Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports, where we live at the intersection of sports and culture. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese. I know I'll

go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Every great player needs a foil. I ain't really near them. I just come here to play basketball every single day. And that's what I focus on. From college to the pros, Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Angel Reese is a joy to watch.

She is unapologetically black. I love her. What exactly ignited this fire? Why has it been so good for the game? And can the fanfare surrounding these two supernovas be sustained? This game is only going to get better because the talent is getting better. This new season will cover all things sports and culture. Listen to Naked Sports on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by diet coke and we're back so yeah just in terms of like forecast i just uh ben you called this stat

out that i think is important for people to understand because so like we said this is kind of already happening but by 2050 the the population of Americans 65 and older is projected to increase by more than 50% to 86 million, according to census estimates. The number of people 85 or older will nearly triple to 19 million. So that's a lot. that's uh that's a lot like that that's a wave uh that's coming for the u.s economy that's coming for those people's kids and i just i don't know unless there's some massive sea change like i just don't know that like there's this new york times series about that i pulled that stat from and it talks about all of you know how there's just not the political appetite to to fund these these uh solutions but um you know they also talk about other countries where you know the u.s is near the bottom of percentage of gdp spent on

long-term care the netherlands spends 4.1 percent of its gdp um japan 2.0 percent canada 1.8 america is down at 1.0 uh near near the very bottom of uh you know the type of countries that they're looking at and usa and in the u.s where poor equals bad in a lot of the like public consciousness i feel like this has sort of a self-perpetuating dynamic where the less we give to something or a group of people the worse off that group of people is the worse off that group of people is the less we want to look at them or think about them the less the government's going to give to them the worse off they're going to become etc etc until you know like they just get where the rich get richer the poor get poorer i've just coined that i'm the first person to ever say that but do you see like any hope for change at the at this uh at this point diana i think at some point

because the system is unsustainable the way it is with the cost of health care and people living longer there's going to have to be some type of change. And I don't know if that's going to come from the government or if it's going to just, people are going to choose to live their lives differently. You know, it's interesting to me, different cultures that have more multi-generational families, I anticipate that if they are unable to get care anywhere else, then they probably will end up living with their children a lot more. You know, the problems I see there though, of course, are people getting senior services or Catholic charities knocking on their door because this person is neglected, but they are just trying to do the best they can.

But they are maybe in that sandwich generation where they still have to go to work, and so mom's home all day, and then they have kids, and they've got to get their kids to their things. I've always been a big proponent, too, of saying for people that purchase long-term care insurance to pay for their own long-term care, there should be a tax credit for that. Because if I have long-term care insurance and I'm paying $300 a month for it, I should be rewarded for doing that. Because guess what I'm not going to do is end up on the state's door asking for them to pay for my long-term care. I think there's simple things like that that we could, you know, have legislation. There's also 11 states now that have death with dignity statutes or right to die legislation.

And I think that's a growing, I don't know if it's a trend, but something that's definitely being talked about in Illinois. I hope that we do end up with that type of legislation here as well, because people can decide to go out on their own terms if i have some terrible diagnosis like als where i'm just going to slowly lose my ability to move everything to where i can blink at you and then not breathe i don't want to be in a bed for 10 years with that diagnosis i want to go to europe with my family come home and you know figure it out yeah yeah so i think there's going to be more of a push for that too yeah and that right now like i i guess that seems like people who haven't spent a lot of time thinking about this sort of thing it seems like that's the sort of thing that people assume you

can like figure figure out some way to do that and it's it's really not like there's not a way, or at least there hasn't been traditionally. Like that's what that whole Kevorkian controversy was about. And there's social aspects to this too, going to the multicultural point, which I really appreciate, right? What we're describing here is indeed not a phenomenon limited to the United States. We see this demographic shift occurring in many developed countries.

And I love the point you're making as well, Diana, about the reality that shocks a lot of people. Their first time traveling outside of the U.S. A lot of families live together, right? It is super normal to, like, if you're, let's say you go on a date somewhere, you know, and you're in Argentina or whatever. Well, that 30-something-year-old person you're meeting, they live with their parents. You know what I mean? And it's not a bad thing. There's no stigma.

Right. It's actually a source of pride for the parent that my child chooses to live with me and stays here. Yeah. It's not like a punchline and weekend at Bernie's. I think that was the first time I saw someone. Right? Doesn't he

live with his parents in that? He goes on a date and lives with his parents. I was like, well, I'll never do that. Well, it's aspirational because we're just going to announce it here. Jack and Miles and I, we're all moving back in with our parents. That's right. Yeah.

My parents actually just moved in with me, which is great. When they decided to downsize and sell their house, and I'm like, thank God you did that while you're alive because I would not want to have to deal with all that after you're gone. Right. And they got rid of all the personal property.

And so half the year, they're upstairs in my second primary bedroom. And half the year, they're in their condo in Phoenix. And when they're here, it's great. They can help me get dinner on the table. They can run the kids around wherever they need to go. So I can work all day and take care of the people that I... So I'm a big believer in the benefits

of a multi-generational house. And now they don't need care yet which is right you know that's a different situation but it's just like a lot of the writing on this still makes it seem like it's like optional like that this could happen and it's like this is happening this is there like this is inevitably going like this population is inevitably going to get old uh which is going to create a crisis um i don't know but yeah i mean there's interesting policies in place in japan the netherlands um that you know prove that it can be done and like that we could be in a place to prepare for this. But it's just the political rhetoric is so like every man for themselves,

every man and woman for themselves, that it just feels like we have a long distance to travel before we get to a place where this is somewhat manageable. Perhaps that political appetite we're talking about will itself evolve in the coming, in the coming years. Right. Because that's the hope. Yeah. That's a voting block, a very powerful voted block by the way. Uh, and, uh, and you know, in, in a self-interest prioritized culture, maybe. Guys, I'm trying to do like a silver lining thing.

I'm not sure if it's working, but I'm like, hey. It's getting there. They'll start to, you know, you'll start to vote for the common good, right? For the greater good when you feel the greater good directly involves you. Yeah. Maybe. Maybe. It would be the first time time but it does make sense doesn't it um diana such a pleasure having you on the show thank you um where can people find you follow you all that good stuff well my law firm is called law like my last name l-a-w hesselbaum h- H-E-S-S-E-L-B-A-U-M. We're in Aurora, Illinois,

and our website is www.lawhess.com. If you're in another state and you need a good estate planner, we're part of the National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys. If you want to send me an email, I might know somebody where you live to go get your estate planning done by someone who knows your state's laws. And I'm on Instagram, but I'm not very exciting and more of like a lurker than anything, but it's at funkybaglady. Nice. Amazing.

And that's about it. Is there a work of media that you've been enjoying? Oh, okay. So since I do take care of older adults, I did find this to be a lovely little piece of media. I really did enjoy that Golden Bachelor show. Oh, nice. I thought it was very sweet. I liked the women on there. I liked the gentlemen. I like that they did find love and I've yet to see the wedding,

but it's in my Roku somewhere waiting for me. They did find love. That's good. Ben, such a pleasure having you. Where can people find you, follow you, and is there a work of media you've been enjoying? Ah, yes. You can find me getting into all sorts of shenanigans on shows like ridiculous history which is just what it sounds like we didn't overthink the title you can also find us on stuff they don't want you to know a title we did overthink because we had

no idea the show would go on that long uh you can find uh me with my with my co-host Matt Frederick and Noel Brown applying critical thinking to all sorts of strange questions. You can follow me on Instagram in a burst of creativity. I'm at Ben Bolin. I know, right? Stunning. Take that, James Joyce. And perhaps most importantly, I've got to say a piece of media that I have been super duper enjoying. There is a show on Netflix where it's a retired elderly guy in Japan, and he goes and eats desserts and just thinks that he's a samurai when he does it. I say I love it, but I can't remember the name of the show. Like you, Diana,

with the Fargo binge, I just turned it on and then sort of disassociated. But Netflix has some sleepers. They got some sleeper hits. What's that show called? Thanks to some help from our team. It is Contaro on Netflix. Shout out to producer Catherine Law for that assist. Tweet, I've been

enjoying Steven with a PH tweeted showing a picture of a very healthy person to my doctor. I was thinking something a bit like this. I just like that idea. Going with the haircut approach to the doctor's office. Nice.

You can find me on Twitter at Jack underscore O'Brien. You can find us on Twitter at Daily Zeitgeist. We're at The Daily Zeitgeist on Instagram. We have a Facebook fan page and a website, DailyZeitgegeist.com where we post our episodes and our footnotes where we link off to the information that we talked about in today's episode as well as a song that we think you might enjoy

and I will recommend the song Float by Janelle Monae, which I just discovered and is a very dope song. Haven't listened to Janelle Monae in a while and uh that song goes so uh we will link off to that in the footnotes uh the daily zeitgeist is a production of iheart radio for more podcasts from iheart radio visit the iheart radio app

apple podcast wherever you listen to your favorite shows that is going to do it for us this morning back this afternoon to tell you what is trending and we will talk to y'all then bye i'm jess casaveto executive producer of the hit netflix documentary series dancing for the devil the 7m tiktok cult and i'm Dancing for the Devil, the 7M TikTok cult. And I'm Clea Gray, former member of 7M Films and Shekinah Church. And we're the host of the new podcast, Forgive Me for I Have Followed. Together, we'll be diving even deeper into the unbelievable stories behind 7M Films and Shekinah Church. Listen to Forgive Me for I Have Followed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Keri Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry, Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese,

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice.

And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.