The Daily - A High School Assault

Episode Date: September 20, 2018

The accusation against Judge Brett M. Kavanaugh has set off a national debate about how to address decades-old allegations of sexual aggression by a teenager. Here is one woman’s perspective. Guest: Caitlin Flanagan, who wrote about her experience of sexual assault in The Atlantic. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily.This episode contains descriptions of sexual assault.

From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily Watch. Today, the accusations against Judge Kavanaugh have set off a national debate about how seriously to treat decades-old allegations of sexual aggression by a teenager. One woman's experience. It's Thursday, September 20th. Caitlin, you brought your yearbook from home. One of my yearbooks, yes. What year is it?

It's a 1979 yearbook. From which school? From a high school I graduated from in Long Island, New York. What's it called? I'd rather not say because I'm really protecting this person's identity. Sure. Caitlin Flanagan wrote about this period of her life for The Atlantic magazine. Can you show me your photograph from your graduating year? You know what's interesting about my photograph is I forgot until I looked at it the other day that another thing I did after this happened was I cut my hair very short.

And it was the 70s, so we really wore like Farrah Fawcett kind of hair, and I was really proud of my Farrah Fawcett-ed hair. And I cut my hair, and look how unhappy I look. Why do you think you cut off your hair? You know, I don't think I consciously thought to do it, but when I look at that picture of myself, I'm in this high turtleneck with a sweater over it, and I've cut my hair. I think I didn't want to be as attractive as I could be. I think I wanted to be a little unattractive because it seemed a little bit dangerous to be a pretty girl in 1978. And what about some of the inscriptions, some of the things that

people have written to you in here? Mm-hmm. Okay, let me find it. people have written to you in here. Mm-hmm. Okay, let me find it. Dear Caitlin, I'm really glad that I got to know you this year. Don't ever forget world literature. And Mrs. Mondry, I wish you the best of luck in the future in everything you do.

Love and friendship, Leslie. I don't remember her. I'm sure she doesn't remember me. Are there any others? Okay, I really have not read any others since probably about 1980, maybe. Kate, hi, you were so lucky you're getting out of here. I wish I was. Remember all of those outrageously boring times with Mr. Olinsky and all those tests that were so easy to fail, for me anyway? So listen, have a great life. Live it up and have a,

this is a real Long Island expression, have a pisser, which they would always pronounce pisser, have a pisser. Stay the sweet person that you are. Take care. Love, Laura. So it's funny because most of the people who wrote these inscriptions, I have no idea who they are, but there's one inscription of someone I'm sure I'll remember for the rest of my life. And I wondered if you could, you could read it to me. Okay, let me find it. Oh, here it is in the front. Dear Caitlin, I'm really very sorry that our friendship plummeted straight downhill after the first few months of school. Really, the blame rests totally on my shoulders.

To tell you the truth, I've wanted to say this all year. I know you'll succeed because you were very smart, and I regard you with the utmost respect. Enjoy the summer for me because I'll be, and then he mentions some arduous thing he had to do over the summer. And then it says, take care, love always, and then he signs it. Caitlin, can you take me back to your senior year in high school, at this school? What was it like to be Caitlin Flanagan then? It was just an unremitting horror show. I'd grown up in Berkeley, California, and then my father took a job in Long Island,

and it was leaving home for my senior year. And, you know, that's a very big move. It's a really big move. And there's a lot of fiction for girls that starts with a move, that that's a very disruptive time. I remember Are You There, God? It's Me, Margaret starts out that way. Oh, a big book from my youth, Go Ask Alice. There's just this idea that when you uproot a girl, it's hard.

And it really was hard. And Long Island was truly one of those bedroom communities. And it was very Republican. And it was just, I always say it was like a John Hughes movie before there were John Hughes movies. This high school, it was a big high school. What does that mean? Well, there's the jocks, there's the nerds, there's the burnouts. So everybody was in these sects. Just as you see in classic high school movies, but when you have not seen the classic high school movies, when the trope hasn't been invented.

Right, The Breakfast Club had not yet been made. It had not yet been made. I surely would have survived the year had I but seen The Breakfast Club. Do you remember your first day of school that year at this new school? Oh, God. I don't think I remember. Well, here's what I— Your face says that you remember some kind of a trauma around it.

Well, what I really remember is—so I always dreaded the lunch period. And I was sitting at a table alone, and there were these girls sitting at the table behind me. And I thought that they had been, like, throwing peanuts at my back, but they hadn't. And I became really angry, and I picked up my tray, and I hurled it at them. Wow. And I didn't—I mean, the very fact that I didn't get in trouble for this just tells you what a weird, unmonitored high school it was. Well, I'm not sure that's the most telling thing about this story it sounds like you you anticipated that everybody around you

didn't like you that they were literally throwing things at you yes were you lonely this first couple of weeks and months i was so lonely it's like some emotions are so intense they don't even read as that emotion it's like depression like depression is intense, it doesn't even feel like sadness. But yeah, I was profoundly lonely. But one of the pieces of advice that one of my good friends had given me when I left home, I said, what am I going to do? I don't know anybody. And she said, get a boyfriend.

Because the boyfriend will have friends and his friends will have girlfriends. And then you'll have your whole group. And I was like, this is solid advice. So I noticed this guy, I thought he was a guy whom I had decided would be a highly suitable applicant for this position of my boyfriend and provider of social life to me, said he would drive me home from school. to me, said he would drive me home from school. I thought he was handsome. And he was quiet. And all my life, I've decided that quiet men, I always thought that Stillwaters were deeply running beneath that. And sometimes they're just not that interesting. But I had already decided that he was a very interesting person based on nothing. And he was on one of the big teams, soccer in Long Island, really big. And maybe it was to lacrosse because I know he was, lacrosse was really big.

So he was going to drive me home. And I thought that's excellent because this is the beginning of Problem Solved. So what did you say to this offer of a ride home? Hard yes. 100%. And I remember that we got to my parents' house, and I said, come in. Come on in. And he did, but he was really tense. And then all of a sudden, he was really adamant that we should leave. We should leave. And I was thinking, why should we leave?

My parents aren't here, which is rare. My parents were usually home. My dad was a writer. I don't know where they were. And anyways, he really wanted to get away from my house. And he said, let's go to the beach. And I said, okay. And I'm from California, so beaches are popular all year round, you know.

It's already getting into autumn. It's cold. And so we go to this beach I'd been to a ton of times that summer with my mom, Cedar Beach. And it is just totally deserted. And I was like, wow, it had never occurred to me. Is this early afternoon? It's right after school, probably 3.30 or so. And then we smoked a little pot, which was fine with me. And I remember him having a tan

colored down jacket. I really remember that. And then he turned to me. I remember what I really remember is like this really artless kiss just kind of plastered on my face and kind of backing away from it. Like, oh, this is not the way. This is not the script for this enchanted romance that is beginning. Kind of that teeth clunking kind of kiss. And I pull away from that like, you know, this is not your A game, you know, like I'm figuring like we can get this back on track. And then he kind of mashes into me again and I guess kind of climbs over from the driver's seat to the passenger seat.

He's climbed over the passenger seat. He's on top of you. Right. Yeah. And I'm just kind of pushing him the way I was used to being able to push a boy away to give the message that I'm not into this. And I'm like, why is he not getting the message? This is what I really remember in my 16-year-old head. This is weird. He's not getting the message that I'm not into this. And I'm like, why is he not getting the message? This is what I really remember in my 16-year-old head. This is weird. He's not getting the message. I'm pushing him. And now I'm even telling him no. And then I realized he is getting the message, and he doesn't care about the message, and that the message is not powerful.

Like, I know I was 16. I wasn't like sexually experienced, but I had like made out with boys or whatever. And I just thought if you were with a nice boy from your community, the message was enough. Like, I don't want to do that. But I realized all of life, which is that there are men who don't care about the message in certain contexts, in certain moments, and he didn't care about the message in certain contexts, in certain moments. And he didn't care about the message. And then I just, just as I had thrown the tray at the two poor girls who had not been pelting me with peanuts, I just fought like hell. I just fought like hell.

I was just like, he's not doing this to me. You're both clothed. Oh, yeah. My clothes didn't come off. He's trying to take them off, but he's trying to get his hands over me. But I am really, I'm not having it. And at a certain point, he suddenly stopped. And then he started the car. And I remember just driving home in silence, no music. This is all wordless, it sounds like. Yeah.

Well, I think I was yelling during it. What were you yelling? I don't know. I can't remember. Probably just stop. What was that drive like? Silent. It was really silent.

It was super awkward. And I just felt tricked. I just really felt tricked. I felt like, I thought you liked me. I thought that's why you would ask me out, you know? And I should inject into this story a weird thing to inject, but I was an attractive girl when I was young. So I thought, that's probably why he asked me on the date. So even though I'm not a jock or this or that, why he asked me on the date. So even though I'm not a jock or this or that, I have something to bring to the party of being worth dating. And I certainly read all these books. Who wouldn't want

to be with someone who read all those books? So it was this obliterating event in my life. It had taken everything from a level of just constant misery to just a horrifying thing, almost like a shaming. It was like a shaming on this epic level. And then I still had to show up at school. The very next day? Yeah. What happened that next day or the next time you saw him? I don't have any memory. What I have memories of is being at home and becoming suicidal. That's what I have a memory of. Tell me a little bit about that.

I just really, I mean, as I say, I don't want to in any way say that I was like, I think we've established that I was not just some together teenager who then somebody tried to rape me and I fell apart. I was a very fragile teenager. And someone did this and I plummeted. And what I really remember was I got,

I was good at standardized testing. And I got pulled out for some other special level of standardized testing. And so like I whipped through the verbal and then the math, I wasn't even gonna touch. I just didn't ever do math. It was a big bore. And so I, I mean, I whipped through the verbal and then the math. I wasn't even going to touch. You know, I just didn't ever do math. It was a big bore. And so, I mean, I couldn't do it.

And anyways, they gave you, like, a sheet of paper that you could do your math, show your work, figure it out, your math answers. And so I was using the sheet of paper to write my suicide plan. Wow. And I was like, okay, I'm going to save these drugs. I know my dad has this. I know my mom has this. I'll do this. I'll do that. And I wrote it all out. And then the test's over, and this guy, he's collecting the paper. And I'm like, no, I'm going to keep mine. And he's like, no, we have to account for all the paper. And I remember somehow, I was like,

well, give me a minute. And then I, you know, scratched everything out. And I was more bummed out that like, oh, these were really good plans. I was really honing the plan down here. How much did you hone the plan? I attempted suicide that year. But it was a very classic girl's attempt. It was more of a cry for help attempt. I'm so sorry.

And how much of all of this was connected directly to what happened in that car? Oh, yeah. A hundred percent. It was like, oh, that's it. That is it. And did you talk to anyone about what had happened? No, I didn't tell anybody. That is it. And did you talk to anyone about what had happened? Mm-mm. No, I didn't tell anybody.

Not any of your classmates, not any of your teachers, not either of your parents? No. Mm-mm. Because in your mind, to tell them that was to have affirmed the rejection, the shame, the... Mm-hmm. Like, here's more incoming news. Like, you probably thought you had kind of a loser kid. Now we have some confirmation.

And what about the young man who did this to you? What was your understanding of the impact it had on him? My understanding was it had no impact except that he drove me home in that angry, silent way. I didn't think it had any effect on him whatsoever. You know, he continued his sport. He got accepted to a very prestigious institution, you know. He seemed to be doing just fine. Yeah. And then he signs my yearbook with this very powerful inscription. And I remember having anxiety about, would I have enough people to sign my yearbook?

Which there are these things that to us as adults seem so silly, the signing of a yearbook, and they carry such weight. Can I ask you, Caitlin, to read what he wrote one more time now that we know the story we know? Okay. Dear Caitlin, I'm really very sorry that our friendship plummeted straight downhill after the first few months of school. Really, the blame rests totally on my shoulders. To tell you the truth, I've wanted to say this all year. I know you'll succeed because you are very smart and I regard you with the utmost respect. smart, and I regard you with the utmost respect. Enjoy your summer, because I'll be miserable off doing this arduous thing. Take care, love always, and then he signs it. We'll be right back. Kim, there's another chapter in your story that adds a new dimension to all this of what happened with this boy? By about two years out of high school, I had done very well in college. I was transferring to a really good college, and I was home for the summer, and I was working at a department store,

which I thought was a really spiffy job to have, Abraham and Strauss. I was in men's shirts, and I got to measure the men's necks, and I just thought that was really, like, very senior position. Anyways, I was ringing someone up at my register and I kind of out of my peripheral vision, I saw someone approaching the cash register. But when I looked up, they had gone. And then the person came back and it was this boy. And he walked right up to me because there was no one at the thing and he had tears in his eyes. And he said, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. And it was, again, it was a totally weird place to do something like that. And a really weird time. It was such a big moment for him that I don't know if he'd known I was working there and

been looking for a few days at me. I don't know. And it was such a wrong time. And then I just kept saying, it's okay. It's okay. I forgive you. And it obviously had pained him a great deal that he had done that. I can tell he carried that emotion a long time and he really thought it through and he probably punished himself in harsh ways as well. I want to turn to right now and Brett Kavanaugh. Caitlin, why do you think it was this story that compelled you to tell your own story publicly? Well, I was so struck by the fact that, you know, she's a few years younger than me, but not many, that even still she's haunted by this

event. And even still she's talking about it in her therapy. And I think I was thinking, well, I had a similar event. Why hasn't it haunted me? And I realized a lot of why I'm not haunted is that this young man made such a perfect, incomplete apology to me. And he took full ownership for what he did. And he truly apologized and gave me an opportunity to forgive him, which is also a powerful thing to give someone. And that allowed me to really lay it to rest, that I didn't have to spend the rest of my life

wondering the things I wondered senior year. Was it because I wasn't attractive enough or smart enough or popular enough? It was because he made a terrible mistake. So I didn't have to wonder the whole thing. And so, you know, if it's true that the judge did this to this woman, if it's true, he's had an awful long time to make it right. So you're hearing everyone talk in this moment about whether we hold someone accountable for their actions at the age of 17 as a high school student. And you're thinking it's about more than that. It's about how someone responds as an adult.

I bet she would have loved to get a letter like the yearbook note that I got explaining that it was his fault, not hers, and to say that he really saw her. And that was a beautiful thing about the note, too, where he said, I know you're going to succeed because you're smart. And I have succeeded and I am smart. So I was able to lay it all to rest decades, decades ago. And she hasn't. And I do wonder if an apology would have helped her. So he released you from this feeling that there was something wrong with you. He gave you permission to see it as his flaw. Right. I hear you, Caitlin, saying over and over in our conversation that the reason you were able to heal after this experience is because of the way that this young man later dealt with what had happened

in that car. Right. That he came back and he tried to make it right. That he demonstrated to you that he had been wrong. That he'd been at fault. Not you. That he had been wrong. And that all the thoughts... That it had affected him.

But I have to say, and please forgive me if this seems like I'm overstepping in any way, but this conversation has left me feeling like the experience is still very real and very painful for you, even if you have accepted his apology. Well, it's interesting. I mean, I think that horrible year is, you know, we really regress back to that. It was my situation that year that, you know, if I time travel back, that's very fresh. And then that was just the horrible capstone of it all so when i think of it as myself now it's very healed but when i really go back into that moment it was a traumatizing

event what does it say to you about someone who did something like this or who's alleged to have done something like this and as an adult they haven't done what your classmate did, which is acknowledge it and apologize for it. I think what those men do is they put it in a category of when I wasn't my best self or when I was young and I was ashamed of how I was when I was young and then I grew up and I'm really proud of who I became now. And so they look at that girl or those girls as the learning experience of when I wasn't the person I wanted to be, and now I am the person I want to be. But the girls are still sitting with what you did to them, and some of them have been sitting with it for decades.

Caitlin, thank you very much for coming in here and sharing all this with us I really, really appreciate it Thanks for having me And I wish you the absolute best Thank you Here's what else you need to know today. On Wednesday, Democrats and Republicans put forward competing narratives in the battle over how to proceed with Judge Kavanaugh's Supreme Court confirmation. Democrats continued to insist that it would be unfair to Dr. Christine Blasey Ford to hold a hearing without first conducting an FBI investigation.

Well, I would let the senators take their course. Let the senators do it. They're doing a very good job. But Republicans, including President Trump, said an investigation was not necessary and that Dr. Blasey should take the opportunity she'd been offered to testify at a Monday hearing alongside Kavanaugh. If she shows up, that would be wonderful.

If she doesn't show up, that would be unfortunate. On Wednesday, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Chuck Grassley, gave Dr. Blasey a Friday deadline by which to decide whether she will participate. The Times reports that Senate Republicans seem increasingly convinced that they can confirm Judge Kavanaugh with or without her participation. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.