The Daily - Confronting a Childhood Abuser

Episode Date: May 24, 2019

Three months ago, a recording of Sterling Van Wagenen, a founder of the Sundance Film Festival, appeared on an obscure website for whistle-blowers in the Mormon Church. The “Daily” producer Annie Brown spoke with our colleague about the story that recording told. Guest: Elizabeth Harris, a culture reporter for The New York Times, talked to Sean Escobar, who made the recording of Mr. Van Wagenen.For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. This episode contains descriptions of abuse.Background reading:Read about how Mr. Escobar’s actions led to the arrest of Mr. Van Wagenen.Mr. Van Wagenen is expected to go to prison for at least six years after pleading guilty to child sexual abuse.

From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. Three months ago, a recording appeared on an obscure website for whistleblowers in the Mormon community. Today, The Daily's Annie Brown talks to reporter Liz Harris about the story that recording told. It's Friday, May 24th. Hi.

Hi. How are you? How are you? Good. This is Crystal. Hi. Crystal Sterling. Nice to meet you. Nice to see you. Yeah, come on in? How are you? Good. This is Crystal. Hi, Crystal. Nice to meet you.

Nice to see you. Yeah, come on in, Sterling. Thank you. I found you. Your directions were great. I mean, yeah, I think... I'm going to tell you about this recording I have. It's two men sitting at a dining room table talking for the first time in 30 years. Yeah, with all the directions, good luck.

And it is unlike anything I've ever heard. Not the funnest circumstances to meet under. No, but you know what? I so admire your courage in doing this. I can't tell you how brave I think you are to follow through on this. Yeah, I've been covering stories like this for the last several years,

the stories about abuse, about Me Too, and I've written about perpetrators and about victims. But what I've never seen is two people, those two people in the same room trying to talk about it. Every day of the weekend and all weekend, I just felt sick. Like, why am I doing this to myself? You know, is it really necessary to do this to myself? But it just keeps resurfacing for me. Sure. And I don't know. Through this, I encountered questions I had never seen answered before.

My whole life, you know, I've wondered. There's a lot of things I've wondered. Sure. If you had the opportunity to confront your abuser, what would you say? you know, I've wondered. There's a lot of things I've wondered. Sure. If you had the opportunity to confront your abuser, what would you say? It kind of made my childhood, you know, from that point forward,

just changed everything for me. You know what I mean? Like, it's not so blissful anymore. And then if you had that interaction on tape, what would you do with it? Tell me about the man who made this recording. Sean Escobar grew up in a Mormon community in Utah. His father converted as a young adult, married his mother. They moved to Salt Lake City to raise their four kids.

I grew up in Holiday, Utah, which is just a little community there right in the heart of Salt Lake City. Sean found going to church kind of boring, but everyone in his world was Mormon. His parents, friends, the kids he played with, everyone. So I was always with the local neighborhood boys. There was about three or four of us that did everything together. Two of those kids happened to be

the two youngest sons of the Van Wagnon family. Now the Van Wagons had six kids. They had a cool rope swing that would hang from a great big giant tree. And I remember they had a trampoline and we would jump on the trampoline while holding this great big giant rope swing. And then you would pick up your feet and swing far, far away from the tramp and land in a great big pile of leaves. You know, our moms would be telling us it was time to shut it down and we wouldn't want to. And I remember my mom couldn't get me to come in and take a bath because it was just too much fun.

Sean loved playing with all the kids. He loved the mom. He thought she was the sweetest woman in the world. He was close to all of them, except the dad, Sterling Van Wagnon. Sterling, the father, was very distant. In fact, I don't really ever even remember having a conversation with him or him expressing any interest in me whatsoever. Sterling was a big deal in their world. He had co-founded the Sundance Film Festival,

a movie he had produced had won an Oscar. He had achieved a level of success that the community was proud of. You know, he was kind of like the intellectual type, genius type guy, and he had a lot of esteem and respect, but he just appeared as though he was busy all the time. Sean, I want you to tell me about the night it happened, but why don't we start earlier that day? But why don't we start earlier that day? We were playing all day, me and the Van Wagnon children. And I think probably they invited me to have a sleepover that night. And I could never get enough of playing with those guys.

So I was probably excited to sleep over and not have that fun end. And yeah, we pop on a movie and we were all just watching a movie in the basement. We watched a lot of movies down there. Obviously, with Sterling being in the film industry, you know, he had this massive collection of movies. And, well, I just, we all dozed off. We all fell asleep watching a movie in the basement. I was on the couch that was facing the fireplace, and I woke up in the night. To me, it just felt like the middle of the night. I woke up know what to do. I didn't know who it was either. And I instinctively thought to frozen, just pretending that I was sleeping there. And then a few minutes later, the hand was back down my pants again. And again, I just stirred like I'm waking up now. And the hand retreated once again. The third time I sat up and there was Sterling Van Wagnon. He had turned on a black and white movie. There was no sound. And when I sat up and looked at him, he looked at the TV.

He didn't look at me. He held the remote controller in his left hand and pretended that he was actually watching the TV standing up. Were you confused or did you know what was going on? I mean, what did you think was happening to you? I think I was extremely confused. I made a run for the bathroom. I actually ran from around the couch into the bathroom and I locked myself into that bathroom. And I was scared out of my mind. I remember he came to the door repeatedly three or four times trying to coax me out of the bathroom, telling sick and I couldn't come out because I was very sick.

And at that point he disappeared and never came back. And I just stayed in that bathroom. I stayed in the bathroom all night and I was sitting on like linoleum floor. It was hard. It was uncomfortable and I couldn't sleep. And there was a cat in there, a big orange cat got locked in there with me. And I just was petting that cat all night. And around how old are you at this point? I had just turned 13, maybe a week or two before. Okay. So what happens the next day? My mom came and got me and we went through a drive-thru to get breakfast.

And right after my mom ordered the breakfast sandwich, I told her, I was in the back seat and I told her what had happened to me. And what did she say? She looked scared. I mean, she looked really frightened. She just said, okay, you're staying with me today. And took me to my dad's place of work. And I stayed there at the office with them the rest of that day. I remember because I was sitting there in the secretary desk, just bored and probably just drawing. And Sterling walked in.

And he said, where's your mom and dad? And I pointed to the warehouse. And then I, as soon as he was gone, I ran to the back of the office. There was a room and I hid under a desk. Gosh, it's almost embarrassing how scared I was because I was kind of like an athletic, you know, pretty tough kid. And I was kind of like an athletic, you know, pretty tough kid. And I was so scared.

And what do Sean's parents decide to do about this? Sean's parents decide that instead of going to the police or pressing charges, they're going to go to the church and let the church handle it. That's what we're told as members of the Mormon church. And it's one of the things that's, it's almost like an unspoken rule to, you know, you let the church handle such things. They're really concerned about protecting his identity and, you know, what might happen if any of this became public. And the church wants to handle it itself. They were just assuring me that it was getting taken care of.

I see. And how did your life change after that? And how did your life change after that? I became very afraid of the dark and very afraid of being alone and very suspicious of men. I began to sleep with a hunting knife, a 10-inch hunting knife at my side at all times and keep it under my pillow or right there under my mattress. I became very reclusive. I did not want to go to other people's houses. I always liked to be home all the time. And even if I did go to another friend's house, I would be thinking about home and feeling

desperate to get home. And oftentimes I would even call my mom and mom and I kind of had this secret code where she knew why I was calling is because I needed to come home. And I would call her and she would whisper, do you want to come home? And then I would say, yes. And then she would come get me and I would tell my friends and their parents that,

oh, I'm sorry, I can't be here. My parents need me at home. Through his teenage years and as a young adult, this is all still very much a part of him. Then he gets married, he has kids, and it really manifests itself in how he raises his children. It actually, I think it reached unhealthy levels. I am so unbelievably protective of my children.

In fact, I go to great measures always to ensure that my children are never alone with men, that they're never at a friend's house alone with the father. Like he'll call ahead at playdates and make sure that the mom's going to be home the whole time. And if she's planning on going out for groceries and leaving dad at home, then no playdate, playdates off. I don't allow sleepovers, not ever. My kids have never. I never allow them to have male teachers. If my kids were ever assigned male teachers, I have gone to meet with the principal and they would say, we don't discriminate. And I said, well, I was sexually abused as a child. And if you don't get me a different teacher, I will remove my kid from

school. Does it work? Yeah. Yeah. I always got my way. And do your kids notice this kind of fear you have? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. They say I'm too strict, but if I can get my kids to 18 years old without being sexually abused, I will have given them a gift. That's the way I look at it. And Sterling himself, would you ever think about him as an adult? All the time. All the time. I remember when the internet came around, I would frequently Google the name Sterling Van Wagnon, wondering what was he working on in his profession as of late.

He sees that Sterling's life has just moved on. He becomes a professor at Brigham Young University, which is like the Mormon university in the country. He becomes a professor at the University of Utah, and he has a role making movies for the church. I would read about him, yeah, frequently. And then one day in late 2017, Sean is doing what Sean does. He Googles Sterling and he comes across an article in which Sterling is interviewed. He was interviewed in Asia. He was over there for some kind of a film festival, something of that nature. And he was asked about the Harvey Weinstein sex abuse scandal. They asked him what he thought of that.

And his answer was, it is only the tip of the iceberg. When I read that, I thought, am I the only the tip of the iceberg? Is my story only the tip of the iceberg? Was that foretelling? Was he foretelling that he also had many more victims? I was very taken back by it. victims. I was very taken back by it. And I began to heavily wonder if his adult children were aware of what he'd done to me. And I wondered if he was allowed to be around his own grandchildren. You know, are they letting the grandchildren sleep over? Is he allowed access to them? I couldn't get them out of my mind. It began to consume me. Yes. And that's when I reached out to his wife, January 2018, and I just said, I'm so sorry to bring this up. I don't mean to dig up the past. Please tell me that he's never been allowed to be around children, that provisions are in place. Please tell me that your adult children are aware of what happened to me so that they can ensure that nothing ever happens to their children. Just tell me that and I will let this go and we can just move on. And what did she say?

I never got a response from her. I waited and waited and waited. And seven months later, I began to contact each of his adult children individually and informed them of what their father had done to me. And what happened? They were shocked. Some were angry. Some were confused. Some were very sad. And one of them was insistent that I meet with Sterling in an effort to get closure around the issue so that he could assure me that there had never been any other victims before or after me. I didn't feel the need to do that. It was the last thing I would ever want to do.

But at the same time, I couldn't get it out of my mind. I had to know if there was other victims. I had to know. He comes up with a plan where he and his wife are going to meet Sterling at a house. It's not Sterling's house. It's not Sean's house because Sean doesn't want Sterling to know where he lives. I remember telling my wife over and over, I don't think I can do this. And she would say, well, then don't because there's no reason you have to do this.

Why don't you just move on and let this go? And I just said, I can't. I can't. And then one day would lead to the next. And then the day came. And I remember by the time it was time to meet with him, my wife and I hired a babysitter and we drove to this mutual location, a friend's house. And he decides he's going to record the conversation. I thought I better record this. For one, what if he confesses to other victims? I put my phone in a potted plant there on the table. I had a microphone. It was like this little mic. I got it Radio Shack. You just hook it to your phone, and then you kind of clip it there on one of the leaves of a potted plant

and put it on silent mode and hoped for all get out that it wouldn't vibrate. Yeah, that wouldn't be good. Yeah, that's right. And Sterling knocked on the door and I answered the door. This is Crystal. Nice to meet you. And then there he was. He just looked very practical.

He kind of had slouched shoulders and kind of kept his head looked down at the ground a little bit. And you and I can... He kind of had slouched shoulders and kind of kept his head looked down at the ground a little bit. And you and I can, we can't, is it? That's why we're here. And how did you feel when you saw him? I had lots of anger over my teen years and my adult years and thinking, you know, this guy should pay a price. But then when I saw him, I didn't feel any anger. What did you feel? Scared. I remember feeling powerless. I felt the same way then as I felt when I was 13. Yeah.

Sean lets them in and leads them into the dining room. And they're sitting just a few feet apart at this dining room table. Sean's wife is out of the room. She's sitting on the stairs nearby listening. And Sean has on the table in front of him this red spiral notebook filled with questions that he wants to ask. Yeah, so anyway, I have some notes here. Good, sure. Yeah, because what I did was this morning I woke up and I thought, gosh, you know, I'm probably going to get all panicky and nervous and not remember what it is that's weighing on me.

And how does the conversation start? I've always wanted to ask you what was going through your mind that night? Well, it's interesting. Actually, the first question that Sean asks him is about what was going on for Sterling that night. What was going on with you? Well, it was obviously a really dark time for me. I was struggling in my business.

We just had a project go south on us and didn't know where the next paycheck was coming from. Marilyn and I were having a hard time. In fact, that night before I came downstairs, I said to her, you know, I want a divorce. And I expected her to say, no, we're not going to go there. But instead she said, okay. And that just pushed me into a dark place and I remember getting out of bed that night and I remember saying oh god please not this and then I came downstairs and that night I was acting out sexually and that's what was going on with me because the pain was just so great i was just trying to find a way to make a connection a way to stop the pain and you were the you were the

victim i'm so sorry for that yeah okay so that's what was going on with me does that help does that make yeah some kind of sense to you okay yeah in fact again i don't know if this is helps but that's this is the only time in my life i have ever done this i'd really appreciate you just to be honest with me because i do find it hard to believe when someone says that you know it only happened the one time and only time and that I did get caught, I'm not the only one that finds that very hard to believe. Yeah I understand where you're going with that. Maybe it would be helpful to understand that I have acted out sexually in other ways.

Okay. What does that look like? What do you mean? Well there was a period of time when I was visiting prostitutes. OK. And I, you know, had two or three affairs with other women. OK. Like the affairs that you had, was anyone with men? Uh-huh. A couple of work. A couple of work. So then that makes a little more sense.

In the Mormon faith, to have affairs and prostitutes and sex with someone of your same gender is right up there with murder. Wow. He knows that. And for him to give me that, I was shocked. Okay. Yeah, that helps me a lot that you would say that. But that's the only time I had ever done anything like i did to you to a child to a child okay if you know if i had to put a label on it um i guess the label i would put on it was bisexual

yeah rather than pedophile um okay yeah so and i was throughout the recording i repeatedly asked him if there was other victims i didn't just ask him once i asked him over and over and over again and then i asked him if you ever have any sexual interactions with any of the college age students that you've had as the teacher and professor no okay um never have you're just basically saying it was a deep, dark moment for you. And, well, and I need to get to this other question, because the other question is something that's really been on my heart for as long as I can remember.

Let me just, I don't want to skip ahead here too much. Sure. This is a hard one. Had I not gotten up and rushed to the bathroom, locked myself in the bathroom, what was your intention for me? One of the things that haunted me my entire life was, what was he going to do to me? And I asked him in the interview, what were you going to do to me if I didn't run away what were you gonna do to me so i've always thought my whole life if i don't jump up and go to the bathroom where's that like where was that going yeah i follow your logic and and i've never followed that through in my own head yeah i mean i just haven't want to yeah yeah i just i'm sorry i am

sorry i'm sorry to make you to make you go. You have nothing to be sorry for, Sean. You have nothing to apologize for. I feel bad because I don't want to make you feel like I don't want to make you say, this is what I was going to do to you. I actually don't remember you getting up and going into the bathroom. I don't remember that. I actually don't remember you getting up and going into the bathroom. I don't remember that. Because I remember specifically being so, I sort of came to myself, I came to my senses. And I remember being so horrified at what I was doing that I just left and went back upstairs. For that to be his memory of what happened, that was very frustrating for me.

And so I stopped him and I said, well, let me tell you the way what i remember let me tell you what i remember i remember you coming over and doing that to me and then and then i i woke up and saw you doing that to me and then i and i proceeded to tell him you came to the door probably three or four different times oh my gosh i don't remember that. That's the way that I recall. That's what I recall the statement. I'm sure your memory is more accurate on that than mine is. Okay.

Yes, I did feel the need to quickly correct that. So it sounds like you started the conversation off feeling kind of powerless, but I wonder if there were any moments where you felt strong, where you felt some kind of powerless. But I wonder if there were any moments where you felt strong, where you felt some kind of power. Oh, I think in that moment, I actually felt more powerful. Yes, I think to hear what he had to say,

it felt good to be a man because obviously to be a full grown man and an adult and to be able to have that voice and defend that 13 year old child, that actually felt very good. Yes. That makes me smile. That makes me smile. That makes me feel like, you know what? 13 year old Sean, 13 year old Sean, I'm here for you. You went from being a kid to being an adult.

That's right. Felt very good to say, I'm not going to allow you to minimize what you did to me. No. Yeah. I appreciate it. I feel like you've been forthright, which I appreciate. I appreciate it. I feel like you've been forthright, which I appreciate. I still struggle with the, me being the one and only kid ever.

And that being the only time you even have feelings or affection or an attraction towards, you know. Sure. I can understand why you continue to be concerned about that. Yeah. Yeah, I just... I wish I knew what I could say that would give you some comfort on that front. Yeah.

Yeah, well... Well, I appreciate you being honest with me, though. I appreciate your... Okay, Sterling. I appreciate your doing that. You need to use the restroom or anything? No I'm good. Alright my friend, well thanks again. Sounds like you've got a good wife too.

Oh yeah. Tell her goodbye for me. I will Sterling. Thanks, congrats today. If you ever feel like you need to talk again or communicate, please feel free to do that. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. So how is Sean feeling after this conversation? Sean is so relieved that it's over.

Like he takes a massive exhale. And then his wife comes in, and she's been listening to this whole thing from the stairs, and she is flabbergasted. My wife was so shocked. Really? Tell me. Oh man, my wife was so shocked. My wife absolutely believed he was telling the truth because she said to me, he was so kind. He was so sweet. Did you hear him? He was so penitent and humble. And why would he tell you those things if he's not honest? He didn't have to tell you those things. See?

So she believed him about the whole thing because he told you those sort of damning details? I see. I remember my wife saying, yay, you know, like she was just having this feeling like, good, you know, you did it. Now we can close this chapter and move on and you got the assurances that you need.

And then I was like, yeah, like, wow, that is like, wow, that is crazy, isn't it? He plays the tape for his parents and they feel the same way his wife did. He wouldn't have been forthright about so much if he wasn't being honest. So what happens in the days and weeks after that conversation? I just listened to the recording several more times. And then I think I was trying to do what my parents and my wife was recommending, which was, you know, good. Let's close this chapter. Let's leave this alone.

And that's what I was trying so hard to attempt to do was to shut it down but something was stirring very heavily i don't know if i saw something in the news or if i just had time to really contemplate the things he'd said and the inconsistencies that i had picked up on yeah and i was just consumed with the thought of is there other victims that's all i could think about for two straight weeks. And I, you know, silently to myself, I made up my mind that I was going to pursue it. I was going to release it. And what does he mean when he says release it? He gives it to a whistleblower website that focuses on the Mormon church.

It used to be called Mormon Leaks, and now it's the Truth and Transparency Foundation. And he decides to let them publish the whole recording with Sterling's name attached. I didn't tell my parents that I'd released it until the day it was released. They happened to be at my house and I told them, I said, I have to know if there's other victims. This is the only way that I know of that I can discover if there's other victims. And they looked shocked. They looked very confused. My mom, she said, I think you need to forgive him. And I remember saying, it's not mine to forgive. If he's in need of forgiveness, he can get it from God or Jesus because it's not my job to forgive that. And I remember

the look on my mom's face was that of disappointment. And I remember her looking at me like, I've never seen my mom look at me like that before. She looked at me like she didn't recognize me anymore. And what about your wife? How'd she respond? Same thing. I think this was very hard for her to witness me essentially tearing apart someone's life and their career and their accomplishments, and especially being that she believed him. She knew the consequences of what I'd done. And so did I.

I knew what I'd done. We'll be right back. So what does happen to Sterling? The repercussions start immediately. So the fallout was instantaneous and it was very severe. Yes, it was very extensive. He is put on leave from his job at the University of Utah and then very shortly after that resigns. The Sundance Film Festival really starts to

distance themselves from him. They will tell anyone who will listen that they have had nothing to do with him since the 90s. And this thing that he's always been known for, for founding Sundance, he starts to lose that. They're really pushing him back. How is Sean feeling in this moment?

Sean still feels like the decision was right, that there have to be other people out there, other victims out there. And, you know, it's had these effects on Sterling, but there will be other people to come forward. It's worth it. But it's worth it. So the first week after I had released the recording, I think that I had a perception of victims coming forward. I think that I had a perception of victims coming forward. I've never done anything like this before. And maybe I assumed that all of a sudden that they would just jump into the boat kind of thing, you know, and I'm a victim too. I'm a victim too. I'm a victim too. And then in the first week, nobody comes forward. The second week comes and goes, nobody. Well, as the days went on, I began to doubt myself and what I had done.

I began to second guess myself. And then the third week goes by and still there's no one. Every day that went on from that point forward, I began to feel more and more remorse for what I had done. And during this time, Sean said his family felt cold and distant. Just absolute confusion and disappointment. They were still like, why did you do this? And he starts to have real doubts that he made a terrible mistake. I began to get sick. I developed an ulcer.

I couldn't function. I couldn't work. I could hardly do anything. And I was in hell. Because nothing good was coming from it. Only bad was coming from it. Lots of bad. And at that point, I determined that I should have believed him. And I do need to forgive him. That's the problem. I should have believed him, and I do need to forgive him. That's the problem. When he sees that no one else is coming forward, his whole sense of himself starts to shift.

He saw himself as like this warrior, you know, fighting for other victims. But now he starts to think, was this just for me? Was I just trying to take this guy down? And so I made up my mind that I would forgive him and I'm going to do everything in my power from this point forward to offer him redemption. I'm going to help restore his reputation. I had a plan. I devised a plan and I even shared it with one of his children that I have a way to offer your father redemption.

What was your plan? What I had in mind was I was going to do everything in my power to get on some type of talk show or something of that nature, have them explain the whole story and play parts of my recording, have Sterling on the stage, and then introduce me as that victim and bring me out. And I would then forgive him and offer him that redemption publicly. And I thought that it would kind of be a beautiful thing. You really thought this through. I actually thought it would be a beautiful thing for a perpetrator and a victim. Yes, you hurt me, but because you never hurt any others, you're human and you deserve forgiveness and you deserve a second chance kind of thing. So you felt like the problem was you and you wanted to kind of walk back what you had done. That's right. But then I was in Harman's.

What's Harman's? What's that? What's Harman's? I think we don't have them here. Oh, sorry. Sorry. I was in a local grocery store. Okay. I was in a local grocery store and I was shopping and I was in, I remember I was in the cold drink section and I got a text. It was exactly four weeks after I had released that recording.

And the text, all the text said was, Sean, you were right. There is another victim. And then it said, thank you. Thank you. And that was all it said. And I had this overwhelming feeling of clarity. The first person I called was my mom. And I called her right there from that same place in the grocery store. And I said, mom, there's another victim. And we cried and we wept. And I remember her saying, I can see now that God is with you. And it just felt so good for me to feel understood. And I remember having this feeling like I'm validated. It was an interesting phenomenon because at the same time, I felt very guilty. I felt extremely guilty because inherently what that means is that someone else was hurt. It just felt very strange

and conflicting to be excited that there was another victim, be excited that someone else got hurt. Yeah, right. Yeah, that was very confusing for me. So who was the victim who came forward? The victim that that text message was referring to was actually a member of Sterling's family who came forward after reading the transcript of Sean's conversation with him.

Yeah. The abuse took place a couple years ago and she was between the ages of seven and nine. And he has since pled guilty to two counts of aggravated sexual abuse of a child and is expected to serve at least six years in prison. Six years? Six.

I'm curious about the scenario where no other victim did come forward. Yeah, me too. That doubt you felt, would having done this, would it still feel worth it to you? Um, no. Well, no.

And why? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Well, there's no justice for me. I mean, think about this. My statute of limitations around criminal charges was over. So I come forward and, okay, so the justice for me is public humiliation for him. Now, if I felt like I need justice and this guy needs to go to prison. That's completely different. But I don't get off on just ruining a guy's life. I guess what I'm getting at is how much are victims responsible for what happens to their abusers?

Even if Sterling had lost his job and lost his reputation, why should you feel bad about going forward with this information? Why is that your responsibility? Oh, I see what you're saying. Because we're human. This wasn't about sending this guy to prison. That was not what my motivation was. My motivation was, is there other victims out there? And if so, I have to make it safe for them to come forward. That's exactly what I did. I accomplished exactly what I set out to do. This other victim came forward because she read the transcript. Her parents handed her the transcript of my recording.

She read it and she came forward. So I accomplished exactly what I set out to do all that regret and all that shame and all that you know it all went away from me all the burden it was all gone I don't feel bad that he lost his jobs he lied to me

I don't owe him anything had that not. I don't owe him anything. Had that not happened, I can't... I... I don't know. I don't know. Thank you so much, Sean. Yeah, alright.

Thanks, Liz. Thank you so much, Sean. Yeah, all right. Thanks, Liz. Liz, thank you so much. Thank you. not just for a privileged few, but for everyone, and to honour the result of the EU referendum. On Friday morning, after repeatedly trying and failing to rally support for a plan to leave the European Union, British Prime Minister Theresa May announced she would resign.

But it is now clear to me that it is in the best interests of the country for a new Prime Minister to lead that it is in the best interests of the country for a new prime minister to lead that effort. So I am today announcing that I will resign as leader of the Conservative and Unionist Party on Friday the 7th of June, so that a successor can be chosen. From the start, May has struggled to convince Parliament and the British people that she was the right leader to guide the country through a historic and polarising transition away from the EU. In recent months, May had hinted that she would sacrifice herself to win them over. And by Friday, it was clear that that would be necessary.

It is and will always remain a matter of deep regret to me that I have not been able to deliver Brexit. It will be for my successor to seek a way forward that honors the result of the referendum. And Narendra Modi, India's most dominant prime minister in a generation, was re-elected on Thursday by a historic margin. The results were the latest electoral victory for a right-leaning populist, and highlighted the growing power of nationalism across the world. During his first term,

Modi emphasized the empowerment of the country's Hindu majority, invested heavily in infrastructure, and confronted two of India's biggest rivals, China and Pakistan. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you on Tuesday after the holiday.