The Daily - Friday, Feb. 16, 2018

Episode Date: February 16, 2018

The AR-15 rifle used in the shooting that left at least 17 people dead at a high school in Parkland, Fla., was purchased legally, according to a federal law enforcement official. How did a semiautomatic weapon originally designed for warfare become easier to buy than a handgun? Guests: C. J. Chivers, a New York Times investigative reporter and Marine Corps veteran; Richard A. Oppel Jr., a Times reporter specializing in coverage of domestic terrorism and the military. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily.

From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. Today, the AR-15 rifle used in the Florida shooting was legally purchased by the teenage gunman. How did a semi-automatic weapon, originally designed for American troops to kill enemy fighters, become easier to buy than a handgun. It's Friday, February 16th. Are you Nicholas Jacob Cruz? Yes, ma'am.

Okay, sir. You are charged with 17 counts of premeditated murder. State, how would you like to proceed today? Your Honor, the state's relying on the sworn affidavit that the court has been provided as to the 17 counts of first-degree murder and the contents of the sworn affidavit by detectives citing the actions of the defendant in going to Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School on February 14th, 2018 with a premeditated design in that he went loaded with an AR-15 rifle. Chris, where did this gun, the AR-15, where did it come from? Well, it has a complicated history that reaches back to Cold War arms design. Chris Chivers is an investigative reporter for The Times. In the 1950s, the United States had selected another rifle for its armed forces to use as a standard weapon called the M14.

forces to use a standard weapon called the M14. The M14, about 11 pounds when combat loaded, firing a 7.62 millimeter NATO cartridge, easily converted to automatic fire. But a company called Armalite in Southern California designed a competitor weapon, a prototype called the AR-10. It didn't do well. The Army wasn't pleased with it, but an Army general asked the designer, Eugene Stoner, to make a smaller version. And he did. It was called the AR-15. Quick on-the-target performance means a maximum effectiveness for ammunition expended and inspires complete confidence on the part of the combat rifleman. And it's worth noting that the AR-15 was at first a failure. It didn't really have any customers.

The breakout really came in 1962. American soldiers hiking their way through the sweaty jungles of South Vietnam. Vietnam was just really starting to heat up. From the smoke approximately 100 meters away-0 meters away from it. I'll just you from here. All right, who's wounded? All right, give me some cover. The Americans essentially found themselves outgunned.

Get him back here if you can. Can you move him? Remember to stop the bleeding. Secretary of Defense at the time, Robert McNamara, became fascinated by a study he'd seen of the AR-15s, and he prodded the Army and eventually the Marines to adopt the weapon as the standard weapon for American ground forces in Vietnam. A new rifle has been issued to special forces,

airborne and air mobile troops of the Army, and to other military forces of the United States. When it was mass produced for the military, the name became the M16. This new rifle is designated the XM16E1. The M16 was supposed to be essentially the American's match for the AK-47, which was being distributed by its communist producers into the Americans' opponents in Vietnam. That was the moment when I would say for infantry combat, everything changed. It became in a very short order, less than five years, the standard weapon used by soldiers and Marines in the United States military. And from that point forward, in almost every war, both sides have had assault

rifles. So this is a big moment, not just in Vietnam, it sounds like, but kind of in the history of weapons. Suddenly, everyone is going to be using this kind of style assault rifle. It was watershed. Yes. So after the Vietnam War, what happens to this gun? So the fully automatic weapons that were in the military remained in the military. And the AR-15, which was the name assigned to the civilian semi-automatic versions, was offered to civilian purchasers. Right after the war? During the war. Okay.

During the war. But I would say in the early years, they weren't especially significant or popular. And is that possibly because people at that time just thought, well, that's a gun used in war. So why would I have it in my home? That may be part of it. It also hadn't been a central part of the American military experience yet. And it just wasn't, you know, I used to go to gun stores in the 80s when I was in the military. And there just weren't that many of them for sale.

But during and right after the Vietnam War, you could theoretically walk into a gun store and buy— You could buy a semi-automatic AR-15 back in that time, but I would argue that not too many people did. So in the 1970s and the 1980s, these weapons, the AR-15s, were available for civilian purchase, but the sales were rather modest. They didn't enter the public consciousness, and the people who bought them largely were using them legally. But what happened was after a series of mass shootings with weapons that became known as assault weapons in the popular discourse. Eleven of the injured students from yesterday's deadly shooting rampage at Stockton Elementary School are still in hospitals tonight. Five innocent children were killed by an assault.

For the first time, we heard the horror of last week's massacre in Killeen, Texas. 22 of the 23 victims were shot to death. It was the worst mass shooting in this nation's history. A week ago, as paramedics rushed victims from 101 California Street, this was a plaza full of murder. That caught the attention of Congress and led over a few years of debate to the assault weapons ban of 1994. I mean, I have heard people with a straight face saying, well, there are some adults that like to go target practice with these things. Well, they need to read a good book. Congress banned a list of weapons that it considered to be too dangerous for the public to hold. And among the items on that list was the AR-15. And the AR-15 became unobtainable

for most of the public for a period of 10 years. And it's during that time, I would say, when its popularity took off. Once it was taken away, people seemed to really want it. It gave it a coveted status. So it was the ban of the gun, its sudden absence, even though it wasn't all that popular. It was the banishing of it by Congress that it seems helps lead to its popularity. It certainly was a factor.

It gave it a market demand, a desire for the weapon, for the thing that couldn't be had. Unless the law is renewed after 10 years, it dies. That, as it turns out, is due to happen five days from now. And there doesn't appear to be a snowball's chance in hell that it will be renewed. In 2004, the ban expired. It wasn't reauthorized by Congress, and these weapons became available for public sale again. There were no arms twisted, very little floor debate was held, yet somehow a law that a recent survey showed was supported by 68 percent of Americans is just fading away. There was a large amount of advocacy to have the ban expire to sunset, mostly by advocates of gun owners,

almost entirely. What happened? Well, I think the NRA once again showed its very strong political muscle. Chris Cox of the NRA, why should the assault weapons ban come to an end? Well, Rob, it's been a failed experiment, a failed policy. You know, this law's had 10 years to produce a positive result. And according to every legitimate law enforcement study, it's done nothing to reduce crime. And when this ban ends, what happens to this particular gun that we've been talking about, the AR-15? All of a sudden, people rushed out to buy them, and they bought them with an eye to the legislatures thinking that it would be banned again so that the window to purchase and own one of these weapons might be fairly small. And they were purchased by a whole cross-section of people, many of them veterans, many of them law-abiding, many of them who intended to use them for legal use, for target shooting and perhaps for hunting.

But the weapon, as it was marketed, had this crossover moment where you go into gun stores and suddenly it filled shelves, filled racks, where there had not been any of them for 10 years. And before that, they were relatively unusual. And I think for a lot of people, whether or not they own guns or not, it's hard to imagine what the purpose of a semi-automatic gun like this would have for civilians who, as you're saying, are starting to buy it in pretty large numbers, and how it would be used other than for committing something like a mass shooting, given what this gun is capable of. So what do most civilians who buy this gun use it for? So there'd be a lot of reasons for that.

Some of it is it's a weapon that many veterans or many shooters enjoy using on the target ranges and sometimes for hunting. It's bought and marketed for home defense. And I know a number of people who own them. Some of them own them, just own them. They own them because they can. It's an ideological stand to have an AR-15. And what is the ideological stand? They're supporting and exercising their Second Amendment constitutional rights, and they argue that it's important to do that. So how does the debate around this type of gun change as the gun becomes much more popular after 2004 when this ban expires? Or does the debate not really change much?

this ban expires? Or does the debate not really change much? It does and it doesn't. If you go back to 2004, you won't be able to find people who are opposed to the civilian ownership of the AR-15 being able to point to a large number of spectacular shootings. That's changed. The AR-15 now has been used in one grievous crime after another. And so the discussion around the weapon now is informed by these horrible crimes in which it's been used. If you were just joining us, two young men apparently dressed in long black trench coats opened fire. And we do have the breaking news of a shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut. A thousand people were in the mall when the shooting began. In Orlando, a massacre at a gay nightclub. The gun used in the Newtown attack was an AR-15 rifle. The gunman

may be armed with an AR-15. That's a military style assault weapon. Take a look at this. He made it inside the theater with an AR-15 rifle. The suspect started shooting at them when they arrived with an AR-15 style gun. Open fire with an AR-15 style assault rifle. An AR-15. An AR-15. With an AR-15. AR-15. An AR-15.

An AR-15 style. With an AR-15 assault rifle. And finally tonight here, we do have late details coming in on that deadly school shooting rampage in Parkland, Florida. At least 17 dead. The gunman in custody. Let's go back to ABC's Victor at Kennedy's Live at the Scene. And Victor, you have new information about the weapon tonight. David, we're now learning that the weapon was an AR-15 rifle

sold at Active Scene here. As these mass shootings have stacked up, for lack of a better word, has access to this weapon changed at all? I would think not. I would argue access has gotten easier because after these crimes, more people rush out and buy them. And if I go into the gun shop here on Main Street in my town, you know, after we get off the phone, I'm sure I can find a sick rack full of them. So whether it's you or me or anyone right now who wants to buy an AR-15, how hard is it to actually do that? Well, I don't have a criminal record,

so it wouldn't be especially hard. I'd have to fill out some papers and await a background check, and I could go back after a brief waiting period and pick the weapon up. Chris, thank you very much. Thank you for having me, Michael. When we come back, how a troubled 19-year-old was able to buy an AR-15. To be continued... Still no word, though, on a motive. Just an awful day here in Parkland. The shooting started just after 2 p.m.

You've been reporting on Nicholas Cruz and how he got the AR-15 rifle that was used in Wednesday's shooting. What do we know about that? Well, according to federal authorities, he bought it at a place called Sunrise Tactical, which is near his home. And he bought it about a year ago, and he apparently passed the background check, and it was a legal purchase. And how easy is it to purchase an AR-15 in Florida, where he lives? Well, very easy, it turns out. You just walk in, you submit to a background check, and then assuming you pass that check, you can walk out with your gun and ammunition and magazines. In Florida, to buy a handgun, there's a three-day waiting period, but there's no waiting period for the AR-15. You also have to be 21 to buy a handgun, but you can

buy an AR-15 if you're 18, as was the case here. That was apparently when Nick Cruz, the accused killer, bought his gun when he was 18. So you're saying that it's actually easier to get an AR-15, which is among the most lethal weapons on earth, than it is to get a handgun, which seems comparatively less lethal in Florida. Why would that be? Well, that's correct. The reason is it's just these are the way lawmakers in various states and in Congress have structured the laws. One thing gun control advocates say, they say that these semi-automatic rifles that so closely resemble military weapons have had a huge rise in popularity over the last two decades, and the laws and regulations have not kept up, and partly because of the influence of the gun industry and gun organizations on Capitol Hill and in state houses.

So the gun lobby, led by the NRA, has pushed to make it easier to get these guns or keep it easier to get these guns, knowing how popular they are. Well, certainly the industry and the gun lobby has worked very hard to keep access to these guns available. They've been a huge cash cow for the industry over the last two decades. And just to be clear, you don't have to clear any hurdles other than a criminal background check in order to get an AR-15 in Florida. That's correct. All you have to do is clear the standard national gun background database check.

And Rich, what would get flagged on a criminal background check? In other words, what would disqualify someone like Nicholas Cruz from buying that AR-15 during a background check? Well, there would be a number of things, but the main ones are any felony conviction, any domestic violence conviction, whether a felony or a misdemeanor, any domestic violence conviction, whether a felony or a misdemeanor, and any history of commitment to a mental institution or any adjudication of a mental defect. And Cruz didn't have any of those? No, he didn't, as far as we know. What do we know about this shooter, Nicholas Cruz?

Well, we know that he's 19 years old. We know he was expelled from the same school where the shooting took place. He's 19 years old. We know he was expelled from the same school where the shooting took place. We know that he was considered to be erratic and troubled by people at the school. We know that he moved in with another family in November after his mother died. And according to that family's lawyer, that family allowed Cruz to bring his gun with him to their house, and they insisted that he keep it in a lockbox to which he had the key. We know that he bragged about guns and photographed himself a lot with them. According to some reports, we also know that he made a comment on YouTube that suggested he wanted to be a school shooter, and someone apparently alerted the FBI, and they investigated but couldn't identify Cruz as having been the commenter. So it sounds like what you're saying is that none of the kind of behavior that you're describing, having an affinity for guns, antisocial behavior, or even making alarming comments online about violence, none of that would prevent someone from buying an AR-15.

Well, Michael, the thing about the federal gun laws is the bar to prevent someone from owning a gun based on any sort of mental health issue is actually very high. I mean, there has to be an adjudication of a mental defect, you know, something that's worked its way through the courts, or there's got to be a history of commitments to a mental institution. It's got to be something like that. I mean, it can't be that teachers or counselors or other students thought this guy was strange or erratic or troubled. That's nowhere near the kind of trigger point that would prevent someone from owning a gun. We all have a sense at this point that the AR-15 is frequently used in mass shootings. Just how often, Rich, is that actually the case? Well, in the deadliest mass shootings recently, it's the weapon that's almost exclusively used. You know, if you look back at the six largest deadliest mass shootings since Newtown in 2012, all but one of them have been AR-15 style semi-automatic rifles. This includes, of course, the school in Newtown, Connecticut. This includes the attack

in San Bernardino, California. You had the nightclub shooting two years ago in Orlando, Florida. And just a few months ago, the shooting in Las Vegas and in Sutherland Springs, Texas, the church shooting there, all of these were AR-15 style semi-automatic rifles. So we just spoke with our colleague, Chris Chivers, about the history of the AR-15 dating all the way back to before the Vietnam War. And he said that the gun has never been more popular than it is today with civilians. that the gun has never been more popular than it is today with civilians. What's the relationship, as best you can tell, between that popularity and the scale of mass shootings that we're seeing in the United States? Well, I think this is a tough one because the only people who can really answer that are the shooters themselves. But what gun experts say is that it's actually not that complicated. I mean, this is a weapon that was specifically designed for use by soldiers and

Marines to kill enemy combatants, to kill the other side's troops, to kill their fighters. You know, it's easy to use. It has a high muzzle velocity. It's easy to aim. It's not too heavy. You can swap out magazines very easily, so keep up a high rate of fire. The same reasons that make it such a good battlefield weapon, these experts say, are the same reasons that make it such an effective and deadly weapon in a civilian mass shooting. Rich, thank you. Thanks very much, Michael. Rich, thank you.

Thanks very much, Michael. My fellow Americans, today I speak to a nation in grief. Yesterday, a school filled with innocent children and caring teachers became the scene of terrible violence, hatred, and evil. On Thursday morning, speaking from the White House, President Trump delivered a subdued seven-minute address calling Nicholas Cruz mentally disturbed but saying nothing about guns. The president delivered similar remarks in November after the shooting at the church in Sutherland Springs, Texas,

saying it wasn't a, quote, gun situation, but a mental health problem at the highest level. And again in October, after the shooting in Las Vegas, when he called the shooter a very sick man and a demented person. Today we mourn for all of those who lost their lives. We comfort the grieving and the wounded. And we hurt for the entire community of Parkland, Florida, that is now in shock and pain and searching for answers. Here's what else you need to know today. On Thursday, the Senate decisively voted down a

version of President Trump's immigration plan, which had been put forward by Republican Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa. Opposition to the plan was bipartisan, with Democrats rejecting an overhaul of the country's legal immigration system and conservative Republicans opposing the pathway to citizenship it would offer for 1.8 million DREAMers. It's unclear what happens next in the immigration debate. The Senate also voted down two more moderate proposals on Thursday. And President Trump has said he'll veto any bill other than his.

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That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you Monday.