The Daily - Friday, Jan. 19, 2018

Episode Date: January 19, 2018

The only Democrat in the room when President Trump railed against African immigrants as coming from “shithole countries” tells his side of the story. The ensuing fight over immigration has put the government on the verge of a shutdown. If that happens, whose fault would it be? Guests: Senator Richard Durbin of Illinois, who spoke to Carl Hulse, a Washington correspondent for The New York Times, about the meetings with President Trump; Jonathan Weisman, the deputy Washington editor for The Times. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily.

From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. Today, from shithole to shutdown, the story of the past week from the perspective of the only Democrat in the room when the president's now infamous remarks started it all. And if there is a shutdown, whose fault will it be? It's Friday, January 19th.

So is the bipartisan effort to pass immigration reform dead in the water? President Trump tweeting late this afternoon. Senator Dickie Durbin. Senator Dickie Durbin. Senator Dickie Durbin. Senator Dickie Durbin totally misrepresented what was said at the DACA meeting. Deals can't get made when there is no trust. Durbin blew DACA and is hurting our military. When was the last time anyone called you Dickie? When I was about four years old. That one I just hadn't heard before. I remember my mother hated it and told all of our relatives, stop calling him Dickie. I wish my mom were here. She could call the president.

She would be on the phone. On Thursday morning, my colleague Carl Hulse spoke to Senator Dick Durbin about how much has changed since his meetings with the president last week when the two were discussing the terms of a bipartisan immigration deal. The first meeting was on Tuesday in the cabinet room, 26 of us, and the president asked me to sit next to him. That was the fourth time I ever had a conversation with the president. During the course of the meeting, he kept referring to Dick and I agree, and I'm thinking, goodness, I mean, I've really come into high cotton here. He said several times, send me a bill and I'll sign it. We've got to do this. There's no reason to delay it. And so I came back. This group we've been negotiating with, bipartisan Senate group, we've been working together for months. I said, we've got to close this deal. The president's ready to go. And we did in a matter of 24 hours. And I

called the president back because he'd asked me to on Thursday morning at 10 o'clock and said, Mr. President, we have a bipartisan agreement in the Senate. It hits all four points you raised. Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina is coming over to explain it to you. Great, he said. I don't want to slow walk this. Let's get this done. So Lindsey and I, two hours later, two hours after this phone call, were scheduled to be in the Oval Office with the president.

The big shock was when we looked and saw we weren't the only ones invited. In a matter of two hours, someone had called five other members of Congress, two senators and three House members, most of whom have a pretty virulent opposition to any immigration reform. So the deck was stacked against us as the president walked in the room. And so how then did the discussion go? Did it start out immediately contentious? I mean, did he sit down and just say, well, I can't take this deal? It started off with Lindsey Graham sitting right next to the president describing what we'd agreed to. And he barely had a sentence or two out of his mouth. Then the president started commenting.

Who is affected by that? What is this going to do? It was a very tough conversation starting immediately. The president, who was so open two hours before, was not open when we talked to him in the Oval Office. Now, you didn't push back on the president in the meeting, but Lindsey Graham did from your account. Yes, he did. And I'm glad he did, because it was a moment I thought to myself, Durbin, what are you going to do? You just can't sit here silently. Right, so this is in your brain. Even if it's the president. And Lindsey stepped in. And bless him, he gave the most articulate,

extemporaneous defense of American immigration that I could ever ask for. And he was very explicit. He used the vulgar term which the president used, repeated it to him in describing his own family circumstance. I've complimented him publicly and privately over and over again. It was a great statement. I spoke up on a number of issues. I said, if you separate the Haitians from the El Salvadorans and the Hondurans who are here under temporary protected status, it's pretty obvious what you're doing. I mean, it's an obvious racial decision. You were the only Democrat in the room, I think, as far as I know.

That's right. Do you think that there's any possibility that he kind of just forgot that or just didn't hold back? I don't know the answer to that. But as I looked around the room, yes, I was the only one there from the Democratic Party. So, you know, we've both been in politics a long time. People talk differently behind closed doors. And you've been in these discussions, but this was beyond what you would normally. It was beyond. And after Lindsay and I left the room and got in the car together to come back to Capitol Hill, it was silence in the car.

We just witnessed something that neither one of us ever expected. I came back here and the people, the senators I sat down and talked to immediately, there were four or five of them, to describe exactly what happened as we tried to decide what to do next. They said, you look shaken. I said, I was. So this is a tricky question, because I don't exactly know how this all came down. And my understanding is that you did not leak this. I did not. And I instructed my staff not to. So would you have preferred in some ways this hadn't come out because of the chaos it's caused in the DACA negotiations? I think now that the American people have a clearer understanding of the president's motivation on immigration, it makes it easier to confront some of the things he's suggesting.

If you remember from the campaign, this was all about security and terrorism. These people are getting in here and they're dangerous. Stop these Muslims and so forth. Then it kind of moved to, no, we're really protecting American jobs. Well, that Thursday meeting in the White House brought up another part of this debate, which had not surfaced before. And I think it is a major part of the president's calculus. And so in the airing of this ultimately, you know, clears the air a little bit and there's more of an honest discussion. I and there's more of an honest discussion? I think there's more of an honest discussion. I also think that when we look at the president's immigration policy, most of which I consider to be excessive and unfair, that we'll put it in the

context that this may not be about security or American jobs at all. It's something else. So do you think there might have to be a shutdown for a while to force the issue? I think we can avoid it. I think what's going to happen here is you're going to have a bit of a pushback, if not a rebellion, from members of both political parties about the fact that we're on our fourth continuing resolution. For your listeners, a continuing resolution is an excuse. We can't agree on a budget. So we're just going to push the can down the road, as they say, for another few days. That's awful. Mitch McConnell is handing us this CR and saying down the road, as they say, for another few days. That's awful. Mitch McConnell is handing us this CR and saying to the Democrats, take it or leave it.

That is no way to run a government of the greatest country in the world. If there's a short-term CR without a DACA deal, do you vote for it? No. So you're off? I'm off. Well, this is going to be an extremely interesting 48 hours or so here. Thank you, Senator. Thanks for being here.

Thank you. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. Jonathan, what are the conditions under which government shutdowns happen? Let's look at the last time the government shut down. That was in 2013. Jonathan Weissman covered that shutdown for The Times. Remember, this legislation will not fix everything that ails our health care system, but it moves us decisively in the right direction. You have Barack Obama. This is what change looks like. The president of the United States. Well, I think that

we need to repeal this bill and replace it with common sense reforms that will bring down the cost of health insurance. You have Republicans in control of the House of Representatives. Democrats still had control of the Senate. The leader of Senate Democrats, Harry Reid, has already made it clear there will be no defections on his side. Any bill that defunds Obamacare is dead. Dead. It's a waste of time, as I've said before. And if I recall, in this mix, at this moment,

are Tea Party Republicans who have just been elected, and they are particularly rancorous. Right. The Tea Party Republicans were swept into power in control of the House in 2011. What's happened here, because all across the country, we have Republicans and Tea Party candidates making huge gains over Democrats. The new Tea Party rising star, Ted Cruz, from Texas. A Tea Party uprising of sorts nationwide. Throw the bums out. And they're an angry bunch.

They want to show that they still have control of the House. They can still push Barack Obama around. Time is running out to pass a spending bill and avoid a partial government shutdown on Tuesday. But today... That's when Ted Cruz, the senator from Texas, decided no government spending can be approved by Congress unless it strips all money from the Affordable Care Act.

I intend to speak in support of defunding Obamacare until I am no longer able to stand. Cruz went over to the House, and he actually went behind the backs of the Republican leadership. He met with House Republicans, some of those Tea Party guys, and he rallied them. And he said, let's just not support any kind of spending bill that funds Obamacare, that doesn't kill Obamacare. The evidence overwhelming. This law is a train wreck. The evidence overwhelming. This law is a train wreck.

He inserts language into the House budget bill, the bill to keep the government funded, hoping that it would pass the House and somehow, I don't even know how, get through the Senate. The mainstream wing of the GOP is firing back, led by the Senate's top Republican, Mitch McConnell, who opened fire on the Ted Cruz wing of the party in the Wall Street Journal. Mitch McConnell, who said of Cruz's shutdown strategy, a tactical error. It was not a smart play. It had no chance of success. So Cruz is drawing a hard line among some Republicans, So Cruz is drawing a hard line among some Republicans, a line that seems impossible that the other side can accommodate. Exactly. It was going to fail from the very beginning.

Not only was there no way that President Obama was going to sign into law some kind of spending bill that got rid of Obamacare, but it was never going to pass the Senate because remember, the Senate needs 60 votes and the Democrats were never going to go along. We're not going to be extorted. The country is not going to be extorted. We're not going to negotiate with a gun to our heads. We're not going to allow the Republicans to say, give us what we want, or the economy is going to close. Think about that. So they just put it in their back pocket and they pass their

own spending bill. The government's going to shut down in three days, 10 hours, five minutes, and nine seconds. The Senate has acted. Got it. So the House, led by Cruz, who, oddly enough, is in the Senate, passes a bill that says we are going to try to kill the Affordable Care Act and link it to the budget. The Senate says that's never going to happen, so it passes its own more traditional bill that just keeps the government funded. But, of course, as we know from you, those two things have to be reconciled, and they can't be reconciled. So then what happens?

It is now exactly midnight here on the East Coast. And for the first time in 17 years, the American federal government is, as of right now, in the process of shutting down. The actual government shut down. While you were sleeping, Congress missed the midnight deadline to pass a crucial spending bill., lawmakers went back and forth and back and forth and in the end got nowhere. The government shuts down for 17 days. More than 5 million disabled veterans won't get their checks. The National Institutes of Health began turning away dozens of children, many suffering from

cancer from drug trials. Hundreds of thousands of federal workers haven't been paid since the... I'm Aline Cook at the Smithsonian National Museum for the American Indian. Since the shutdown, I went from low wage to no wage. I'm a hardworking mother and I just want to let Washington know that it's not fair because we have, I have worked so hard to pay my taxes every year. I mean the government shut down and I wasn't ready for it. I mean, so now I'm out of work.

Real people are hurt by government shutdowns. This Republican shutdown did not have to happen. But I want every American to understand why it did happen. You know, when the government shuts down, it really signals to Americans that their hatred of Washington is founded, that Washington doesn't function right. This really shows that Washington is just not working.

Let me be more specific. One faction of one party in one House of Congress, in one branch of government, shut down major parts of the government, all because they didn't like one law. The Democrats really played this. And of course, they have Obama in the White House. Obama has just been reelected. He's pretty popular. He's a lot more popular than House Republicans. And so he's able to use the bully pulpit to frame this as irresponsibility on the part of the Republicans. Well, listen, we've been

locked in a fight over here trying to trying to bring government down to size, trying to do our best to stop Obamacare. And ultimately, and so if they're going to hold on to their position that we're always going to raise taxes, we're not going to come to an agreement. John Boehner, Speaker of the House, goes to the Republicans and says, you have to just open the government. We fought the good fight. We did everything we could to get them to the table and to negotiate. They just kept saying no, no, no, no. And so we fought the good fight.

There's no reason for our members to vote no today. When will the government reopen? I would expect this will happen tomorrow. And ultimately... After weeks spent facing off across a partisan divide that often seemed too wide to cross... They do. Political adversaries set aside their differences to reach this important agreement. They get nothing out of this entire fiasco.

They have not won a single concession, and the government simply reopens. The federal government shutdown is finally, finally over. After 16 days, 800,000 federal workers sent home, museums, zoos, and national parks closed, and an estimated $24 billion hit to the American economy. And how does that ultimately affect this faction of Republicans, these Tea Party Republicans, that started this all in 2013? I think you have to look at the political ramifications to understand where we are right now.

Because at the time, the Republicans took a huge hit in the polling. The American public are not happy, and they're especially angry at Republicans. And it looked like Democrats were going to have a real resurgence. The polling showed that Republicans were being blamed and that their approval ratings were in the absolute toilet. The majority of Americans do blame the Republican Party for the government shutdown. President Obama fares much better. But you know what? That was 2013. The campaign is over.

By 2014, the people of Arkansas tonight have made their choice. They had roared back. Georgia wants somebody to fight for them, though. I heard that loud and clear in this state.

The Republicans took control of the Senate in 2014. Tonight, we commit ourselves to building a government we can be proud of again. They gained seats in the House. Tonight is looking like a very, very good night. And the lesson that Republicans took from that is, well, you know, it wasn't pretty, but in the end, it didn't hurt.

And I think Democrats are probably taking the same lesson. And in fact, it didn't really hurt Republicans? It didn't. It did not. I mean, it hurt them in the short run. But, you know, in politics, memory is extremely short. And the events of 2013 just were not on the minds of voters when they went to the polls in November of 2014. Happening now, breaking news. Time is running out.

President Trump says a government shutdown could happen Friday, So here we are in 2018, five years later, and the battle lines are around immigration rather than healthcare. But I'm struck by another difference. In this case, we don't have a divided government. The Republicans control it all. We don't think of government shutdowns being a threat without a divided government. a threat without a divided government. Well, one of the reasons we have a pending shutdown fight is because although we don't have a divided government along party lines, we have deep divisions within the Republican Party and we have Donald Trump in the White House. Donald Trump is

a divisive figure, so divisive that he's not able to bring along Democrats even to a fairly modest proposal to keep the government open. And he doesn't seem to have the ability to really rally even all the Republicans. Remember, some Republicans are going to vote against the spending bill as well. It's not just Democrats. So the president has effectively

so divided the Republican Party that it's as if we have a divided government as we did back in 2013. We have a fractured government. It's more than divided because we can't even neatly draw the lines. It's a mess. But from what you've told us, it doesn't sound like the government shutdown in 2013 really affected the people most responsible for it, the Tea Party candidates, in the following election. So why should anyone, whether Democrats or Republicans right now, why should they worry about real repercussions for tipping us over

into a new shutdown? I think the Republicans worry most because they're already in such bad shape. I think the Republicans worry most because they're already in such bad shape. President Trump is very unpopular, and we've already seen a series of special elections go to the Democrats. Republicans need a winning streak, and they are unable to mount one. They just passed this big tax cut that was supposed to show that they could govern, and then just a few weeks later, the government shuts down. That just stops their message that they are actually a party of governance. Democrats are in a different position. Democrats do run a risk here, but they just feel like nothing will ever fall on their shoulders because

the American people just tend to think that any disarray is President Trump's fault. Jonathan, thank you. Thank you. On Thursday night, the House voted 230 to 197 to pass a temporary spending bill that would keep the government funded through February 16th. But the bill still needs Senate approval, and at least a dozen Democrats in the Senate would have to join their Republican colleagues in approving the measure.

Without protections for young undocumented immigrants, there is little chance of that happening by the deadline of midnight tonight. It's really almost like an amateur hour if we're speaking about time, because this should have been done. We could have come to a place where we have come to a budget agreement as well as protecting our DREAMers,

which is part of the agreement as we go forward. But instead, the Republicans are dilly-dallying, taking their good old time. Maybe they just don't believe in governance. Here's what else you need to know today. On Thursday, the Trump administration announced that it was creating new protections for health care providers who have religious or moral objections to performing abortions, sex change operations or other medical services. The White House has created a new office within the Department of Health and Human Services, the Conscience and Religious Freedom Division,

and is urging people to contact the office with complaints of religious discrimination. The announcement, which came one day before today's annual March for Life in Washington, has been a priority of anti-abortion groups. The Daily is produced by Theo Balcom, Lindsay Garrison, Rachel Quester, Annie Brown, Andy Mills, Ike Srees-Kanaraja, Claire Tennesketter, Paige Cowett, and Michael Simon-Johnson, with editing help from Larissa Anderson. Lisa Tobin is our executive producer. Samantha Hennig is our editorial director. Our technical manager is Brad Fisher,

and our sound engineer is Peter Sale. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly. Special thanks to Michael Gold, Sam Dolnick, and Michaela Bouchard. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you Monday.