The Daily - Harris Chooses Walz

Episode Date: August 7, 2024

Earlier this summer, few Democrats could have identified Gov. Tim Walz of Minnesota.But, in a matter of weeks, Mr. Walz has garnered an enthusiastic following in his party, particularly among the liberals who cheer on his progressive policies. On Tuesday, Vice President Kamala Harris named him as her running mate.Ernesto Londoño, who reports for The Times from Minnesota, walks us through Mr. Walz’s career, politics and sudden stardom.Guest: Ernesto Londoño, a reporter for The Times based in Minnesota, covering news in the Midwest. Background reading: Who is Tim Walz, Kamala Harris’s running mate?Mr. Walz has faced criticism for his response to the George Floyd protests. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.

Hey, it's Michael. Before we get started, I want to tell you about another show made by The New York Times that pairs perfectly with The Daily. It's called The Headlines. It's a show hosted by my colleague, Tracy Mumford, that quickly catches you up on the day's top stories and features insights from The Times reporters who are covering them, all in about 10 minutes or less. covering them, all in about 10 minutes or less. So if you like The Daily, and if you're listening, I have to assume you do, I hope that means you're going to like the headlines as well. You can now find the headlines wherever you get your podcasts. So find it, subscribe to it, and thank you. And now, here's today's Daily. From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily.

Today, the story of how a little-known Midwestern governor became Kamala Harris' choice for a running mate. My colleague, Ernesto Londano, walks us through the career, politics, and sudden stardom of Governor Tim Walz of Minnesota. It's Wednesday, August 7th. Ernesto, over the past few days, we watched Vice President Harris bring the final three contenders for her running mate to her house in Washington, D.C. for a set of in-person interviews. And then we watched as she seemed to narrow her pool of choices down to a final two, the governor of Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro, and the governor of Minnesota, Tim Walz. And now, of course, we know that she has made her choice.

What has she told us about her campaign strategy, the way she views this race, in ultimately choosing Tim Walz? Michael, I think what the choice tells us is that Kamala Harris was drawn to two qualities that Governor Walz brings to the table. And what's interesting is they may seem to be intention. For starters, here's the ultimate everyday man, somebody who grew up in a small town in middle America, served in the National Guard, was a high school teacher, a football coach, very plain spoken, goes to campaign events wearing t-shirts and baseball caps, is a gun owner and very proud about it. He sort of embodies the Midwest. And she clearly thinks that that is going to bring the kind of moderate, white, working-class voters that the campaign needs in swing states to come to them, to sort of make this feel like a balanced ticket, and something that will give her

enough of the crucial votes to defeat Donald Trump in the fall. Right. On the other hand, as governor, he passed a slew of pretty progressive legislation in the past couple of years. Everything from abortion rights to gun control. So these things are likely to appeal to bread and butter Democrats. But the question is, when voters have examined these two facets of Tim Walz, may it bring them enough enthusiasm from the base and enough undecided voters that the campaign desperately needs? Or at some point, do these two aspects of him start canceling each other out? Right. In short, you're saying Harris is betting on a dual appeal from Walls to two essential constituencies.

to two essential constituencies. But the risk is that the appeal to one of them is just much, much greater than to the other. Right. You could definitely see a scenario where voters, once they've examined Tim Walz's story and legacy, may conclude that both of these candidates are quite liberal.

Okay, so tell us the story of Tim Walz, a story that I think a lot of us don't know because we really don't know Walz all that well, and how he has come to embody these two qualities and that tension that you just described. Michael, the origin story of Tim Walz's political career is quite fascinating. Michael, the origin story of Tim Walz's political career is quite fascinating.

He and his wife were teachers in a small city south of Minneapolis. And in 2004, when George W. Bush was running for re-election, Walz took a group of his students to a political rally in his hometown. They wanted to just see the president make his case. And a strange scuffle happened when they were trying to get in. Well, one of the kids had a John Kerry sticker on his wallet. And this is where the individual says, well, you're not going to be allowed to enter. You've been deemed a threat. Apparently, one of the students had a sticker for Bush's rival, John Kerry, on his wallet. And security officials at the rally didn't want to let them in. And I said, oh, it's okay, they're with me. And who are you?

And I said, I'm Tim Walz. I'm their teacher here. And showed them my ID. And they said, well, you too have been deemed a threat to the president. And I said, well, that's not true. And it kind of escalated. And this really ticked off Tim Walz. He was really upset. There was a fight and a confrontation at the rally. Wow. At this point in time, I'm kind of nervous I'm going to get arrested. So I'm like saying, well, you know, I'm teacher of the year in Mankato.

And they didn't care about that. And it was a kind of a sad epiphany moment, how it felt for people to be looked right through by people. These people didn't see me. And this is happening. And ultimately, he sort of walks away from this moment feeling really sick of the Bush administration, the politics of the day, and he turns around and volunteers for the Kerry campaign. And then the more interested he becomes in politics in this era, he starts looking around his congressional district. And there's a Republican who's held this seat for many, many years. This was a largely rural district in southern Minnesota.

And there's no reason to believe that a newcomer to politics, somebody without a donor base, could make a run for this seat and win. But Walls signs up for this weekend boot camp where expert campaigners train newcomers who want to run for office, and he gets really enthused by the idea that he can pull it off. So he starts raising money with the support of an army of students who become so thrilled and energized by the prospect that their nerdy and kind geography teacher is making this uphill bid for a congressional race. So his campaign staff is basically his former students. That's right. And he proves to be a formidable candidate. He draws a lot of attention to his experience in the classroom and as a coach.

When I coached football, these stands held about 3,000 people. That's a lot. It's also the number of American soldiers who have died fighting in Iraq. He's a very strong advocate for pulling out of the war in Iraq. Serving right now are kids that I taught, coached, and trained to be soldiers. They deserve a plan for Iraq to govern itself so they can come home. And one thing that happens in the campaign that is really surprising to people is he comes out as being in favor of same-sex marriage.

Now, it's useful to remember that this is 2006 when the vast majority of Democrats, Democrats running for most elected office, were not ready to come out in favor of same-sex marriage. And here's a guy who's new to politics, who's trying to unseat a Republican who's held onto his seat for more than 12 years, taking what appeared to be a reckless position on something. And when he was asked about it at the time, Tim Walz told his supporter, you know, this just happens to be what I believe in, and I'd rather lose a race that I've ran being true and consistent to my values than try to run as somebody I'm not. And of course, he wins. Yes. To everybody's surprise, he pulled it off. So from the get-go, he shows a kind of maverick, politics-be-damned quality, taking stands that he knows may be unpopular among the voters he's

trying to win over, but he's got some innate political gifts that are all making it work. Yeah, I think that first campaign showed us that Tim Walz had real political chops. He was a very effective campaigner, and people really liked him when he was knocking on doors, when he was introducing himself to voters. They saw him as somebody who was very genuine and who was admirable. So once he gets elected in this conservative-leaning district in Minnesota, what does he actually do in Congress? In Congress, he develops a reputation for being somebody who can work across the aisle. And this is a period where Democrats and Republicans were deeply polarized over the Iraq War.

He spends a lot of his time lobbying to expand benefits for veterans so it's easier for them to go to college after their service. And also becomes a leading voice in the quest to repeal Don't Ask, Don't Tell, the policy that prohibited openly gay servicemen from serving in uniform. And he remained really popular. He easily won re-election five times. The last time he runs for his seat happens to be 2016, when President Trump wins his district by about 15 points and still, you know, voters kept Tim Walz in office.

I think it's important to note what you just said. Walz is distinguishing himself as a Democrat who can take some pretty progressive positions as he did in that first campaign on gay rights, as he did with Don't Ask, Don't Tell, and keep winning in very Trump-friendly districts of his state. That's right. And as he's serving his sixth term in office, he sets his sights on the governor's mansion and decides to run for office in 2018.

He wins that race easily. And early on during his time as governor, the eyes of the world are on Minnesota after a police officer kills George Floyd. And what we see is massive looting and protests in Minneapolis. Right. And remind us how Governor Walz handles that violence, those protests. Yeah, I think that's a crucial chapter in Tim Walz's political career

and one that will come under scrutiny in the days ahead. After George Floyd was killed on a Monday... People are upset and they're tired. And being Black in Minnesota already has a stigma and a mark on your back. Protests took root in Minneapolis. You all want to sit down here and shoot off your rubber bullets and tear gas? And they got progressively larger and more violent. There comes a point where the mayor and the police chief in Minneapolis plead for help.

They ask the governor to send in the National Guard. And crucially, that request was not immediately heeded. This is the third precinct here. There are fires burning to the left of it. And at the height of the crises, a police precinct building was abandoned. There's someone climbing up the wall right now, kicking the window in, trying to climb up the wall. Because city officials grew concerned

that protesters were about to overrun it and may attack the cops inside their own turf. and may attack the cops inside their own turf. And the building is set on fire. Right. A very memorable image. I can recall it happening in real time. Yeah. And in the days that followed, I think there were a lot of questions of why the governor didn't send in troops earlier

and whether a more muscular, decisive response could have averted some of the destruction that spread through the city. And how does Walls end up explaining his decision not to send in the National Guard more quickly? The governor and his administration have said that they were really, really dealing with an unprecedented challenge. And I think there was a concern that sending in troops into this really, really tense situation could have done more to escalate rather than pacify things on the street. But in the weeks and months that followed, there were a lot of questions about Governor Walz's leadership. And there were critics who said during what may have been the most challenging week of his life, we saw a governor who was indecisive and who waited too long to send in resources

that ultimately allowed the city to get to a semblance of order. Right. And it feels like this is a moment that will almost assuredly be used against him by Donald Trump and J.D. Vance, the Republican ticket, which has made law and order so central to their message in this campaign. Yeah, absolutely. And here in Minnesota, that was certainly a liability for him when he ran for re-election in 2022. But voters kept him in office, and he won that race handedly. And not only did he win, but Democrats managed to flip the Senate and have full control of the legislature on his watch. And that sets in motion one of the most productive legislative sessions in Minnesota history,

where Tim Walz and his allies in the House and the Senate managed to pass a trove of really progressive legislation, oftentimes on a party vote. Tell us about some of that legislation. Well, Minnesota becomes the first state in the wake of the Supreme Court ending the constitutional right to abortion to actually codify this right under state statute. And they did a lot more stuff. They had a huge budget surplus, and they used that, for instance, to fund meals for all school children. They managed to pass a couple of gun control laws that were very contentious. They gave the right to undocumented immigrants to get driver's licenses. They legalized recreational marijuana. They legalized recreational marijuana. And finally, the governor takes a pretty bold stance on this issue of gender-affirming care for transgender kids and teenagers and says that Minnesota will be a safe haven for people who want that health care.

So Ernesto, how should we think about that blitz of legislation and the largely progressive tone of it, given the way that Walls had campaigned and succeeded up to that moment as somebody with such broad appeal across the political spectrum. When the governor was asked whether, you know, this had been too much too quickly in terms of progressive legislation, His answer was that these were broadly popular policies, that these were issues Democrats had campaigned on. And here, Democrats had a window of opportunity where they were in control of the governor's mansion, in control of the House, the Senate, and that when you have political capital, you spend it. But when you start listening to Republicans in Minnesota, they say, here's a guy who campaigned on this mantra of one Minnesota.

That was his campaign slogan. And he sort of came into office with his promise that he would govern in a bipartisan way, reach across the aisle. But when they had all the votes they needed to pass their policies, Republicans felt that Wallace was not bothering to bring them into the fold and to pass legislation that was going to be palatable to conservatives in the state. So I think people who once regarded him as a moderate now start seeing him as somebody who, when he had the power, acted in ways that were really progressive and liberal. a pretty progressive leader, even at the risk of being somewhat at odds with his earlier image as more moderate, because in his mind, enough people in the state are behind these policies.

Yeah, and I think he assumed that he had banked enough goodwill and that people across the state liked him enough to tolerate policies they may have disagreed with? And I think it's safe to say, you know, among the people who cover him here regularly, there was never any real hint that Tim Walz was eyeing a run for higher office. He's not somebody who's written the kind of political memoir that oftentimes serves as a case of what you would bring to a national ticket or to the White House. And he seems pretty happy with the state job. So it was a huge surprise when Tim Walz starts going viral through a string of cable news appearances right after President Biden drops out of the race

and the Democrats are scrambling to put Harris at the top of the ticket. And what becomes clear is that Walz is very forcefully auditioning for the role of vice president. And Vice President Harris starts taking him very seriously. We'll be right back. So, Ernesto, tell us about this cable news audition that Governor Walz undertakes over the past few weeks and how ultimately it seemed to help him land this job of being Harris' running mate. I think Walz does something really interesting, and that is that he says that Democrats shouldn't be talking about Trump and Vance as existential threats. He kind of makes the case that Democrats have been in this state of fear and paralysis for too long and that it's not serving them well.

So the word he latches onto is weird. Well, it's true. These guys are just weird. And it is, you know, they're running for He-Man Women Haters Club or something. That's what they go at. That's not what people are interested in. And I think one other thing we see in Walls is somebody who is putting himself out there as a foil to J.D. Vance. That angst that J.D. Vance talks about in Hillbilly Elegy, none of my hillbilly cousins went to Yale and none of them went on to be venture capitalists or whatever. And I think the case he's making is that Tim Walz is a more authentic embodiment of small-town values. What I know is that people like J.D. Vance know nothing about small-town America. My town had 400 people in it, 24 kids in my graduating class, 12 were cousins, and he gets it all wrong.

It's not about hate. It's not about class. And behind the scenes, people from Tim Walsh's days on Capitol Hill started calling everybody they know in the Harris campaign and the Harris orbit and saying, you know, here's a guy who has executive experience as governor, but also somebody who has a really impressive record from his time on Capitol Hill and somebody who could be an asset in helping a Harris administration pass tough legislation. So you should take a hard look at this guy. Which is, of course, exactly what Harris ends up doing. And I want to talk for a moment about how Harris announces walls as her running mate on Tuesday morning. She did it in an Instagram message, and it felt like the way she did it very much embraced this idea that you raised earlier, Ernesto, that Walz contains these two

appeals, one to the Democratic base, one to the white working class. Harris specifically cites the work that Walz did with Republicans on infrastructure and then cites his work on gun control. She mentions that he was a football coach and the founder of the high school Gay Straight Alliance. She's straddling these two versions of Walls. But I want to linger on the idea for a moment of Walls' vulnerabilities because once he becomes Harris' running mate, Harris and Walz are going to lose a fair amount of control over how they present him to the country because he's going to become the subject of very fierce attacks from the Republicans in this race. So talk about that for just a moment. the Republicans in this race. So talk about that for just a moment. Yeah, I mean, it's important to keep in mind that Governor Walz has never endured the scrutiny of a presidential race. So the questions he's going to be asked and the way his record is going to be

looked at is going to be different and sharper. You know, I think the Harris campaign is billing him as first and foremost, a fighter for the middle class. And I think that certainly will have some appeal. But I think in coming days, there's going to be a lot of attention drawn to parts of his record that may be unpopular with many voters. For instance, giving undocumented immigrants driver's licenses, which Governor Walz championed, is likely to provide fodder for an attack ad. The very dramatic footage of Minneapolis burning in 2020 is also something that I think people will be drawn to. And there's going to be interest in re-examining what the governor did and what he could have done differently to avert the chaos. And on Tuesday, we saw that the Trump campaign wasted no time in trying to define

Tim Walz as soft on crime, permissive on immigration policy. And they also made clear they wanted to re-litigate the era of George Floyd's killing. And specifically, they want to try to tie him to the effort at the time to defund the police, which is a movement that Walz personally never endorsed. So the Republican attack here will be pretty simple. Walz is liberal. Harris is liberal. So in their efforts to speak to especially white working class and rural voters in swing states, the Trump campaign is going to say, this is not the ticket for that group of voters. This is the ticket of burning police precincts and gun control. And of course, that may not be fair, but that's very likely going to be the message over the next couple of months.

Right. I think there's going to be effort to portray him as a radical liberal who has used his small-town roots to put on this sort of veneer of being a moderate and a really sort of understanding and being part of the segments of the electorate that I think are critical in this election. Harris did not pick when she chose Walls because many Democrats had felt that Walls was a potentially too liberal-seeming running mate for a candidate, Kamala Harris, who herself comes from a blue state and is caricatured by the Republicans as liberal herself. And the person she didn't choose was Governor Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, who was seen as having a huge appeal in that particular key swing state, but also presented risks of his own of alienating parts of the Democratic base with his well-documented support for Israel and his criticism of campus protesters. How should we think about the fact that ultimately Harris chose walls over Shapiro? Yeah, I think in the final stretch of this campaign to be the vice presidential pick,

we started seeing a lot of acrimony in pockets of the Democratic face, drawing attention to the fact that Governor Shapiro could be divisive on Gaza, which has really sort of split the party in recent months. So I think at the end of the day, they made a calculation that Tim Walz would be more of a unifying figure and would be somebody who would sort of inspire and energize enough pockets of the electorate that they need, particularly in the Midwest, to make him the stronger and more exciting pick and somebody who wouldn't force them to go back to defending and re-litigating the Biden administration's

record on Israel and on the war in Gaza. Right. on Israel and on the war in Gaza. Right. And then on Tuesday night, we got our first glimpse of Harris and Walls together on stage for the first time at a campaign rally. I'm curious what struck you about their debut together. Good evening, Philadelphia! I think everybody was watching the opening scene of this rally to see what the chemistry

between these two people was going to be like. And they both seemed giddy. They were literally at times bouncing with enthusiasm. Since the day that I announced my candidacy, I set out to find a partner who can help build this brighter future. So Pennsylvania, I'm here today because I found such a leader. Governor Tim Walz of the great state of Minnesota. Tim Walz of the great state of Minnesota.

They soon cut down to business, and that business was how to define Tim Walz for voters who don't know him well. To those who know him best, Tim is more than a governor. And right off the bat, we saw that Kamala Harris really highlighted a lot of pieces of his pre-political career. To his former high school football players, he was coach. She repeatedly called him Coach Waltz, Mr. Waltz, evoking his time in the classroom and even used his military title from his days in the Army. To his fellow veterans, he is Sergeant Major Waltz. To his fellow veterans, he is Sergeant Major Walsh. And then when it came time for Tim Walsh to introduce himself on this massive stage.

Welcome the next Vice President of the United States, Tim Walsh. He drew a lot of attention to his small town roots. I was born in West Point, Nebraska. I lived in Butte, a small town of 400. He said something that he said repeatedly recently in campaign appearances, which is... In Minnesota, we respect our neighbors and their personal choices that they make. Even if we wouldn't make the same choice for ourselves, there's a golden rule.

Mind your own damn business. The golden rule of small towns is you mind your own damn business, which is something he said in the context of his argument that Republicans have been limiting rather than expanding people's rights. But he also drew attention to the fact that he's a gun owner. By the way, as you heard, I was one of the best shots in Congress. But in Minnesota, we believe in the Second Amendment, but we also believe in common-sense gun violence laws. And then when it came time to draw a sharp contrast with their opponents, Tim Walz said

these guys are phonies. Donald Trump's not fighting for you or your family. He never sat at that kitchen table like the one I grew up at, wondering how we were going to pay the bills. He sat at his country club up in Mar-a-Lago wondering how he can cut taxes for his rich friends. He said it's actually people like me and Kamala Harris who come from humble origins

and showed what is possible in America when you hail from a working class background and you seize opportunities that were available to you. Thank you, Philadelphia. Thank you, Vice President. God bless America. America. So when it comes to this question of Walz's dual identities and dual appeals, what did we learn on day one of this new Democratic ticket, do you think? I think the campaign is trying to convey that these two facets of Tim Waltz's life are not mutually exclusive, that they don't need to be in tension. They don't cancel each other out. They're both part of Tim Waltz's story. And I think that's how they're going to present him

from now until election day. From now until Election Day. Ernesto, thank you very much. We appreciate it. It's my pleasure, Michael. We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. On Tuesday, Hamas said that Yahya Sinwar, one of the masterminds behind the deadly October 7th attacks on Israel, had consolidated his power over the entire organization.

Until now, Sinwar had held the title of Hamas's leader in Gaza. But with the assassination of Hamas's top political leader by Israel last week, Hamas said that SinAR would take on that title as well. SINWAR remains a major target of Israel and is believed to have been hiding in tunnels underneath Gaza since October 7th. And the U.S. Department of Justice has charged a Pakistani man with ties to Iran with trying to hire a hitman to assassinate political figures

in the United States. The man recently traveled to the U.S. and was arrested in New York last month. American authorities believe that his potential targets likely included former President Trump. Former President Trump. Today's episode was produced by Alex Stern, Eric Krupke, and Olivia Natt. It was edited by Lisa Chow and Patricia Willans. Contains original music by Pat McCusker and Marian Lozano. And was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly.

Special thanks to Nick Pittman and Minnesota Public Radio. That's it for today. I'm Michael Babarro. See you tomorrow.