The Daily - In Ukraine, the Men Who Must Stay and Fight

Episode Date: March 1, 2022

This episode contains strong language.As the Russian assault has intensified, the government in Ukraine has enacted martial law, requiring men to stay in the country and either join the fight or face the prospect of conscription.We tell the story of three of those men: Eugene, an I.T. worker from the northeastern city of Kharkiv; Tyhran, an animator who attempted to cross the border into Poland; and Andrew, who signed up for the territorial defense force two weeks ago.Guests: Clare Toeniskoetter, a senior producer for The Daily; and Lynsea Garrison, a senior international producer for The Daily. Background reading: “Everybody in our country needs to defend”: Civilian volunteers and paramilitary groups are taking the fight to the Russian Army in Kyiv, Ukraine’s capital.Photographers and videographers around Ukraine have captured a populace struggling with uncertainty and fear.Want more from The Daily? For one big idea on the news each week from our team, subscribe to our newsletter. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday. 

Hello, Claire. Hi. Hi. Last Thursday, I saw a story starting to play out on Twitter. Tara or Tara? This woman. Tara. Tara Knightsey, an American who had been living in Kiev,

but who happened to be staying outside the city at the time of the invasion, was on an evacuation bus headed for the border with Poland. And she was basically documenting in real time this situation that was playing out. So I called her and asked her to tell me the story. So literally Wednesday night, I fell asleep and my phone is beeping at like 8 a.m. in the morning local time. And then all of a sudden I realized stuff was happening. Ukraine under fire this morning. The months-long buildup of Russian troops on the border with Ukraine

has turned now into an invasion. Today, Russia has launched its invasion of Ukraine, attacking from three sides. So I get up. I get a ticket to Lviv, and then from Lviv, I bought a bus ticket to go from here to Poland. And the bus is kind of just like everyone. It's a really weird feeling. Not a lot being said. Every once in a while, whenever there was a data signal, you would hear phones beeping and people like on their phone talking to family. And roughly how many people are on the bus? Oh, it's a full charter bus. I don't know how to count You would hear phones beeping and people on their phone talking to family.

And roughly how many people are on the bus? Oh, it's a full charter bus. I don't know how to count that. I guess if that's, you know, it's a two on two on each side. And then I guess there's probably 20 rows. Yeah. So they were just pretty much calm. No one was panicking.

I remember seeing one young couple with a young child, maybe a husband and a wife. Okay. And then as we start getting closer to the border, and literally it looked like from there we were like three or four bus lines away from going through the Ukrainian security to exit. And it's just not moving. Then, like, there's two guys, the driver and the attendant. The attendant gets on and he makes an announcement saying men, Ukrainian men can't leave the country.

So, we're like, what, you know, kind of what's going on? Just a light commotion and he's just like, we're trying to find out more information. And so we're like, what, you know, kind of what's going on? Just a light commotion. And he's just like, we're trying to find out more information. And so we're like, okay, just sitting there. So then he comes up again and says, okay, well, if you're with family, we think you can get across. Then the third announcement comes. And this is the guy's tone that he was giving the announcement completely changed.

He says that basically any man, any Ukrainian man from 18 to 60, they can't leave Ukraine. It doesn't matter if you have family or anything. You can't go. Ukraine has banned all men between the ages of 18 and 60 from leaving the country. They're being told to stay and fight. And I remember the group of a single man were real close to me. And I specifically remember, and I'll have this face in my life forever. We caught eye contact because he was getting his phone and it wasn't fear. It wasn't hysteria it was just numbness i think everybody is just um

i'll never forget that feeling because I know this he can't go And one woman She's probably in her 40s She was crying and you know her husband he's telling her and she's she's she's the only at this point She's the only person crying on this bus and she's the only person who's cried on the bus the whole time Wow, so it stood out a lot because everyone else was just silent and and they say their goodbyes and she's she tries to hold it together she keeps apologizing to people around her like we don't you know but you know she knew she had to go into Poland.

She couldn't stay. But she didn't want to go. I mean, she didn't want to go. And he leaves. And it just seemed like that walk was forever. And he leaves. And it just seemed like that walk was forever. And he leaves and so she's still crying and then our bus starts moving. And I look out and I see just all these guys with their bags. And it was dark.

It was terrible. From the New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. As the Russian assault on Ukraine has intensified, the government of Ukraine enacted martial law requiring men to stay in the country and either join the fight or face the prospect of conscription as hundreds of thousands of their family members and friends have fled the country. members and friends have fled the country. Today, my colleagues Claire Tennesgetter and Lindsay Garrison have the stories of three of those men. It's Tuesday, March 1st. Hi. Hi, Eugene. How are you? It's a little strange question for the current situation,

but I think I can say it's pretty much okay, accounting the circumstances. Right. After I talked to Tara on Friday, I got in touch with a young man named Eugene. My name is Eugene Prasol. I'm 27 years old. I work in an IT company in the marketing department.

And all my life I lived in Kharkiv. Kharkiv is a city in marketing department. And the whole of my life I live in Kharkiv. Kharkiv is a city in northeast Ukraine. With a population of about one and a half million, it's the second largest city in Ukraine. And like Kyiv, it had just started to see attacks by Russian soldiers. And talking to Eugene, he is very much talking about his life as it is there now, versus as it was just a few days ago. I can say I was pretty cheerful.

I like to crack a joke. I was a normal guy who, he just working his work, he loves his job, he comes home tired. I like puzzles, I like building Lego, I wanted to start drawing to buy something pretty for my apartment, to cook something for my friends. Last week, Eugene had been making plans to cook something that he could bring into work. And make a chocolate banana pie for my colleagues. Yeah, I still have bananas in my fridge,

but my colleagues don't have banana pie. They have Russian troops. Instead of bringing a pie into work on Thursday, Eugene woke up, like so many people in Ukraine that day, to an early morning phone call. From my father, he said that shooting starts. About five hours later, half of my relatives, half of my friends were no longer in hockey. They left.

Wow. Eugene's parents are divorced, and his dad decided to leave with his wife and Eugene's stepbrothers. He's trying to convince Eugene to do the same. But Eugene talks about this fear that he has, this image in his mind. I receive a notification about an airstrike or that bombs are coming or something like that, I call my mom and she don't pick up. And I have no idea is she alive and just doing something or she's in the middle of the fight, and she will never pick up.

I cannot live with this feeling that I cannot do nothing about what can happen to her or my grandpa, who also stayed in here and so I decided to stay. Last weekend I cannot decided should I buy games to play on my PlayStation and today I have to decide should I have to fight Russian army till my death. It's a pretty drastic change. Yeah. In stakes. mistakes.

So Eugene is prepared to fight. But he has a complicated relationship to the idea of fighting against Russian soldiers, his neighbors. Every time I've seen reports from battlefield, our troops are winning, and I'm glad they are winning. But with the reports that we are winning,

I saw people are dead. Every time I'm winning, People are dead. Every time I'm winning, somebody losing a father, son, a friend. You mean the Russians or you mean the Ukrainians? Yeah, I mean the Russians because they're losing soldiers. He struggles with the mindset that the Russian soldiers are the enemy. They were drafted in the army.

The president sent them here. Probably he anticipated the casualties. But now I have become an active part of this war. The day I talked to him, Eugene had planned to go and officially sign up for Kharkiv's Territorial Defense Force. These are the untrained civilians who are being issued rifles and being assigned to keep overwatch, man checkpoints, and help coordinate positions. man checkpoints, and help coordinate positions. But because of missile strikes and Russian troops in the city, citizens were asked to shelter in place over the weekend.

So Eugene was waiting a few days to sign up. In the meantime, he was preparing to be ready to fight on his own, if need be. Our police, the official Facebook page of Ukrainian police, today showed the picture of how to prepare a Molotov cocktail. So tomorrow I will try to find some acetone, maybe even something additional. Something additional, he said, in addition to the acetone. He's talking about a recipe he's read to make a Molotov cocktail stickier. I'm not going to include that recipe here, but Eugene says. It will stick to the armor, to the helmet, to your body if it's in contact with your skin and it's severe burns. It causes especially severe burns.

Yeah. So you anticipate using it on people? On Russian soldiers? I don't want to, but if Russian military troops will come to my town, I anticipate to use it. Yeah. So you're anticipating, it sounds like like guerrilla warfare in your city if it's needed yeah yeah it strikes me that you've been so sad watching the images of russian troops who are dead that you're seeing on the news and you're thinking these are men

with families, but at the same time you're planning on using this Molotov cocktail to kill Russian soldiers? From the start I told you that it is uneasy to comprehend for myself. I don't, I, obviously I never killed a man or an animal even for this matters. I don't know how I'm going to feel. I pretty much believe that if I should to do it I will have some heavy psychological circumstances after that.

But what other choice do I have? I have. I don't know what I should do else because they come here. No one was inviting them. We'll be right back. Hello? One second. Yeah, hi. Nice meeting you. Nice to meet you as well. Thank you so much for your time. Yeah, unfortunately I have Wi-Fi right now and I'm in a safe place I can talk. You have Wi-Fi and you're in a safe place. Okay. Yes, yes, yes.

That's good. And how do I say your name? Oh, my name is Tigran. Tigran. Yeah, Tigran. Yeah. Tigran. Yeah, Tigran, yeah. Over the weekend, I heard a story from Ukraine that was different than so many of the stories coming out of the country right now.

Amongst all the stories of the men of Ukraine staying behind to fight and Ukrainian citizens voluntarily taking up arms, I heard from a source about a young man who didn't want to fight. And when I called him, he was just outside Lviv, near the border of Poland. He knew about the ban on men ages 18 to 60 leaving the country, but he was still trying to figure out how to get across. Yesterday I was trying to pass the border to Poland, but I didn't succeed.

The day before, he'd already been rejected trying. How old are you now? I'm 23 years old. Wow. Tigran told me he left his home in Kiev the day of the invasion. He had lived in the city for seven years. Love this place a lot. I'm actually an illustrator

and animator. I'm doing cartoons. You're doing cartoons? Yeah. He said for the past year, he had been working at a design agency in Kiev. He had these big dreams of one day working for Pixar or Disney.

Yeah, it's one of my dreams because I was raised in these cartoons. You were raised on the Mickey Mouse cartoons? Yes, and 101 Dalmatians, and many others. 101 Dalmatians. I haven't thought about that movie in a long time. During my last year,

I was making a cartoon, and I've just finished it. I can send you a link, you can watch it later. I'm gay and I was making cartoons about my relationship and I was making a cartoon about how I tried to understand what happened. Like, yeah. Yeah, sorry, I'm just a little bit nervous. No, no, that's okay. Was it about a breakup? I was just, I always miss this person.

That's all I can say. Yeah, and I've just decided to make a cartoon in order to understand my feelings about the situation. But, like, yeah, the situation has changed. The situation has changed a lot. Tigran, too, was woken up on Thursday morning by a call from a relative. This one from his younger brother.

He said, Russia is bombing us. His brother was already on a train to get out of the country. And he crossed the border into Poland later that day. And this was a small relief to me because I know

he's definitely in a safe place right now. So Tigran also starts trying to move quickly to get out. I just took all my technical equipment, because I'm drawing all the time. I cannot imagine myself without drawing. And I also took another bag, just with socks, underwear, clothes, four pairs of shorts,

and one pair of jeans and sweater, and just gathered all my cash and documents. And can you just tell me why you wanted to leave Ukraine? I can tell you the whole story. Originally, I was born in Crimea. It turns out that Tigran has had an experience like this before. For him, the story starts in Crimea. It turns out that Tigran has had an experience like this before. For him, the story starts in 2014

in Crimea, where he grew up. At the time, it was part of Ukraine. He was 16 years old when the Russians annexed the peninsula. And soon after that, Tigran says the Russian government tried to get him to submit paperwork that would allow him to be conscripted by the Russian military,

the same military that had just invaded and taken over his homeland. It was ridiculous. I was just 16 and I was understanding this. I was just like, I was really shocked about it. He declines to submit the paperwork and instead leaves Crimea and heads to Kiev. And he's made that his new home. And now he has found himself trying to flee the Russian military once again. He got on a train headed west toward the Polish border,

just like his brother did hours before him. When a message came through on Telegram. There was a law about mobilization, that people are not able to leave. Just like the bus Tara had been on, Tigran's train was headed for the border when the government announced that men, ages 18 through 60, would no longer be able to leave Ukraine. And I was really nervous and shocked. They were just saying that everybody is forbidden.

He says he started to cry. But then, unlike the men on the bus who weren't given the choice, Tikron decided to keep going and try his luck anyway. He arrived in Sirenia, a town on the border of Poland, and met a crowd of people all waiting to pass through. He said the mood was tense. A fight breaks out. And then he said some women in line just started to kind of look at him and question why was he in this line. Some women in line just started to kind of look at him. They were just gross. And question, why was he in this line?

And they were asking, how old are you? Why are you standing here? Why was he a young man? Yeah, you should leave because you're a boy. Trying to get out. I'm trying to avoid them. He tries to ignore them. And then finally, Tigran gets to talk to a border official. But he doesn't allow were starting to shout.

People were panicking and they were starting to shout at me, shame, shame, shame, because everybody wanted to leave. They were shouting shame, shame at you? Yes, just because I asked if I could pass the border. How were you feeling in that moment when people are yelling at you? I was, I felt myself a little bit disappointed because why are you shouting shame? Like, why do people do this? My home was taken and now it's taken again. Russia has already taken the place I was born, Crimea. And in Kiev, I've just lost, I've lost a place I was born in, Crimea. And in Kiev, I've just lost,

I've lost the place I had. I'm just, I've been, I've been always moving and moving and moving. And like you're saying with this, I don't know your life, but my life at some point was fucked up so many times. And I'm just, everybody is having shitty situations right now. Every Ukrainian is having the same issue right now.

Everybody has its own issues and story. And my story, it's been going for the last eight years, unfortunately. This is what I was angry for. I don't know, I just accepted it and just left the border. Do you think it's unfair that they're not letting men pass the border right now? the border right now? With my sincere opinion, yes, I think it's unfair.

Maybe I will receive many judgments. I think if you want to go, I mean, there is a people who are motivated to go to the army and understand what they're doing, protecting. But I'm not understanding government is forced to. I mean I can't imagine myself doing military stuff just because I have no experience in it I'm afraid of holding

gun I mean I've been always all my life I mean when I was younger was always asking my parents not to buy me cars I was always asking for fluffy toys. When you were little, like when you were little, you didn't want like toy cars, you wanted stuffed animals? I really liked it a lot, like having fluffy toys. My parents were always against the violence and they were against buying me any weapons. And for me, just holding a gun,

I mean, I cannot imagine myself holding a gun i i can imagine myself volunteering and helping but not holding a gun i mean i'm officially employed i'm paying taxes i'm making donations to support agreement i mean'm here to do anything I can do. I'm an illustrator. I'm trying to draw some motivational posters. And just because I have a penis, I cannot leave. So why should I just be not able to cross the border? But I'm going to try again, probably. But I'm going to try again, probably. There were some mentions that ideas about passing the border illegally.

I don't know how. In case it will get worse, we will probably be trying this because just right now, I'm not feeling myself safe. I mean, they are bombing and people are dying. Everybody is running. Like, I have no idea how many lives were ruined during the last three days. They're not going to stop. Unfortunately, they just want to destroy. Tigran says he and his brother have been texting from across the border.

Yeah, he texted me. He said, I wish I could be instead of you. And I said, please don't be ridiculous. I always ask you to think and live out yourself. This is the best scenario which could ever happen because he's safe, he's with his girlfriend. And so I'm pretty happy to know that he's safe and I have minus one headache. This is like a small winning to me that understanding that my brother is safe. So So the Russian offensive continues now for the three days. In the last 42 hours, Russia launched cruise and ballistic missiles on Syrris, attacked Ukraine with aviation, tanks and artillery.

I mean, I think everyone saw yesterday the footage of the rocket getting into a residential complex in Kyiv. We are absolutely appalled by the Russian crimes against humanity which we see throughout Ukraine. Responsibility for these actions is inevitable, regardless of how much time it will take us to defend our country. I'm here in order to protect my family, my country, and my region, my people. I just want to leave our country. Do you know how to use the gun? No, a little bit. We started to teach two days ago. It's not so often. It's awful. Are you scared? Of course. There are Russian base in my village.

And from my village they gonna go here on Kyiv to capture it. Yeah, it's really scary and terrifying. I am called to my parents. They really scared. There's Russians in our village, enemies. I hoped that they would be fine. We don't give our freedom to anybody. Never. Until we die. Hi, Andrew. Hey, Claire.

Andrew is 23. And until a couple weeks ago, he was a normal guy in his early 20s. A computer programmer. Days before Russia invaded, he signed up with the Territorial Defense Force in Kiev, saying it's what he needed to do for his country. And over the past few days, we've been talking about his first days of service. So what was your first day like? I come to my base, they give me my weapons and uniform, but we haven't good training because it wasn't enough time to do that.

And what is a day like? wasn't enough time to do that. Yeah. And what is a day like? Territorial defense have to protect some important place in Kiev. You go to the place that commander told you, said you should go there. place that commander told you, said you should go there. In some places, in some

more important places, you could have contact with enemy. And what does it actually look like in the streets of Kiev right now? Yesterday, it was fucked, really fucked. Sorry about my French,

but... That's okay. It was not far from a railway station, almost in the city centers. And what happened? It was street fights, a group of Russian vehicles, like military vehicles with guns, start a fight. So, yeah, it was a bad situation. What does a street fight look like in Kyiv? I can send you a video about this. Okay, I'll watch the video. Can you try to describe? It was Russians and our military forces and also some group of territorial defense. flying under you.

It feels like really, really close to you. And these sounds, fierce sounds of bullets, it was really scared. You were really scared?

It was not emotion, I think. It was something from inside. It was like something animal stuff. I haven't felt anything like that before. like that before. When bullets finish flying, that means they need to recharge their weapons, and you have time to shoot, to answer shoot, and you start like city fight.

But Russians not in good position in city because there are a lot of us in Kyiv. Only in Kyiv like more than 10,000 of us. Only in Kyiv, like more than 10,000 of us. In cities, we have better positions than our enemy. You know the city better than they do because you live there. Much more better. And how did this fight end? Good. Good. Can you tell me if you, did you fight back? Yes, of course,

I'm shooting. I'm trying to hit the enemy. Okay. And Andrew, what is your understanding of how Ukraine is doing right now in the war? We are winning in the information war. You're winning in the information war? Yes. Yeah, yeah. Right. How about the physical war though? Do you think you're winning that war? physical to be clear I'm not allowed to talk about this okay maybe after this shit ends I can

talk about this more clearly but not now okay I understand Andrew we spoke clearly, but not now. Okay. I understand. Andrew, we spoke a week ago and at that point you'd made the decision to fight and to join the Territorial Defense

Forces. How are you feeling now, one week later, about that decision? I'm happy that I'm in Territorial Defense because I'm still alive. I'm happy that I made this decision, but I still have feelings that I'm not doing all that I can.

What do you mean? We have been in this war only because our regular forces. They made so much for us to be alive and i'm just in kiev in base but they don't have this pleasure you can only do so much because you don't have the training you've just joined a few days ago yeah few days ago? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just simple 23 years old man. Nothing special. It's 5 p.m. on Sunday night in Kiev. What is the rest of your night going to look like, Andrew? You never know, you never know. It's a war. On Monday, Ukrainian forces retained control of major cities. But as the invasion entered a fifth day, Russia appeared to be stepping up its military campaign.

A convoy of Russian armed forces 40 miles long moved closer to Kyiv, as troops also moved to towns west of the capital in what may be an attempt to encircle the city and cut off supply lines to arms and other military equipment arriving from European countries. from European countries. In the city of Kharkiv, videos showed Russian rockets hitting a residential neighborhood, the most aggressive targeting of a civilian area since the invasion began. In the time since we spoke with him,

Eugene told us he followed up with Ukraine's territorial defense forces in Kharkiv and was told that they have enough soldiers and that for the time being, don't want any more untrained citizens. Tigran is still in Ukraine. He heard that some people were successfully crossing the border at another location, so he booked a ticket there and plans to try to leave Ukraine tomorrow. Half a million refugees have now fled the country. Finally, Andrew told us that on Monday, two people in his battalion were killed in Kiev,

and that he's now ready to fight on the front lines. In my opinion, more than half of my battalion will die here. More than half of your battalion will die, you think? Yeah, yeah. How do you feel about that, personally? I feel a chance to stay alive. Of course, you never know will you die or will you stay alive. But it's like

intuition so I hope my intuition is working right We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. On Monday, three West Coast states, California, Oregon, and Washington, said they will drop school mask mandates in the coming days. In the latest example of local governments rolling back pandemic restrictions,

it followed a similar decision by New York, which will end its mask mandate for schools tomorrow. which will end its mask mandate for schools tomorrow. And a major new study has found that Pfizer-BioNTech's COVID vaccine is much less effective in preventing infection in children ages 5 to 11 than in older children or adults. The finding is significant because the Pfizer vaccine is the only shot authorized for children in that age group. The vaccine prevents severe illness in children, but offers virtually no protection against infection. Today's episode was produced by Claire Tennennisgetter and Lindsay Garrison,

with help from Jessica Chung and Alexandra Lee Young. It was edited by Lisa Tobin and MJ Davis-Lynn, engineered by Chris Wood, and contains original music from Marion Lozano and Dan Powell. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Lansford of Wonderling. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Bilbaro. See you tomorrow.