The Daily - Inside Ukraine’s Embattled Cities

Episode Date: March 10, 2022

It has been two weeks since the beginning of the war in Ukraine and Russia’s high-tech army of nearly 200,000 soldiers have not taken control of any major cities, except the southern port of Kherson. The state of the war is eerily stalled and the Russians’ answer has been to encircle cities and, from a distance, bomb what they can’t control. Today, we hear dispatches on two cities in Ukraine’s south that are surrounded and under attack. Guest: Michael Schwirtz, an investigative reporter for The New York Times; and Valerie Hopkins, a Moscow correspondent for The Times, currently in Ukraine.Background reading:  Two weeks after the invasion began, tens of thousands of Ukrainians are without food, water or power. The Russians are increasingly resorting to indiscriminate shelling to help their forces advance.The southern city of Mariupol is under a relentless barrage — there is no heat or electricity and little communication with the outside world. Want more from The Daily? For one big idea on the news each week from our team, subscribe to our newsletter. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday. 

From The New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernisi. This is The Daily. The war in Ukraine has now been underway for two weeks. But Russia has yet to take control of any major Ukrainian cities, except for the southern port of Kherson. This huge, high-tech Russian army, nearly 200,000 soldiers, has failed to take Kharkiv, it's failed to take Odessa, and it's failed to take Kyiv.

The Ukrainian resistance has been too strong. So the state of this war is perhaps best described as eerily stalled. And for Russia, their answer is to encircle these cities and, from a distance, bomb what they can't control. Over and over. And what Russia is hitting now seems indiscriminate. Apartment buildings, factories, universities, hospitals. Since the war started, there have been more than 700 Russian missile attacks.

And the dead are overwhelmingly Ukrainian civilians. Today, my colleagues Michael Schwartz and Valerie Hopkins send us dispatches on two of those cities in Ukraine's south that are now surrounded and under attack. It's Thursday, March 10th. My name is Michael Schwartz, and for the past week or so, I've been reporting from Mykolaiv, a town that has become a major line of defense against Russia's efforts to push west along the Black Sea. Russia's efforts to push west along the Black Sea. I've been following a group of Ukrainian soldiers who are daily and nightly fighting with Russian forces, trying to prevent them from gaining control of one of Ukraine's most important economic zones, the port in Odessa. And should that fall, it would probably be a decisive

defeat in the war for Ukraine. I arrived in Mykolaiv last week and immediately went to see the mayor, Alexander Sienkiewicz. He was working downtown, right in the center of the city, at City Hall. And I went up this grand staircase to his office on the second floor. Only in the last week or so, this mayor, Alexander Sienkiewicz, has turned it into his war room. There are guns everywhere. There's a Kalashnikov sitting on a stool. The mayor himself greets me. He's dressed in army green.

He's got a pistol in his pocket. And we sit down at a desk to discuss how the war is proceeding. What's that? Is that outgoing? The artillery. One of the most important things the mayor said he's doing is trying to educate people about the day-to-day of war fighting. When you hear, yesterday I have online stream,

the live stream, and I teach people how to recognize. He had done a Facebook video in which he explained the difference between Ukrainian artillery, which makes two quick bursts going out. So when you hear boom, boom, this is ours. And Russian artillery. When you hear boom, it's on us.

Good to know. And in this way, he thinks he can put citizens at ease. They'll be able to discern the different sounds of war. The mayor was there with the secretary of Mykolaiv City Council, Dmytro Falko. I'm sorry. Dmytro. Let's keep it Ukrainian. And together they showed me the current state of the battle for Mykolayiv.

Can you give me just a sense of what the situation is in the city and outside of it? Where are the danger points? Where is the Russian advance? We need a map. We need a map. Do we have it? At one point the mayor projected a map of the region onto a wall and showed me where Russian troops were located.

This is very much an individual who, two weeks ago, was just a small-town mayor dealing with sewage issues and problems with crime, and now he's an integral part of how the city is defending itself from a concerted Russian offensive. Where territorially are we looking? In the south. In the south?

So they come from different directions, like this. So this is Kherson. The main road is from Kherson right here. And they come from here. Right now we caught them here. Under Khalitsyovna. And this became kind of a makeshift battle map where he was showing me the movements of Russian troops.

It became clear that the city was, you know, at extreme peril, that it was surrounded on three sides by Russian troops and that Ukrainian forces were basically rushing back and forth along an extended front, trying to keep them at bay. So the situation is kind of, you know, nervous. More nervous than dangerous. Yeah. And then the mayor told me about these bridges.

So we have two bridges. Two very strategic objects in the city. Opening and closing, yeah. Yeah, we open it and we close it just a short time every day. And it is vitally important that the Russians not reach these bridges and then gain access to the rest of southwestern Ukraine. So we raise them. And in order to prevent the Russians from doing so, the city has rigged these bridges

to explode should the Russians approach them. They are mined. Mines are here. So in case they want to go through the city to Odessa, the only way to go to Odessa here is by bridge. This is the situation for now. Can you give me a sense of what the fortifications are in the city? I know you can't say everything. Yeah, so let's say we have fortifications around the city,

empowered by... how do you call the Seoul in English? Oh, the Armed Forces of Ukraine. how you call the sou in in english of armed forces of ukraine armed forces of ukraine so yeah so we have let's say enough armed forces of ukraine here situated in the city prepared to defend you have enough yeah we have enough but not enough to fight with them i think when we go forward but enough to defend for defense and uh how long do you think you'll be able to hold them uh it's a good question it's a good question i don't think i'm ready to answer you because uh for you because we are ready to fight till the last Russian soldier or our last patron. Bullet. Yeah so this is the situation. And what's the mood in the city? Most people are trying to leave if they can. i think all uh people i mean sick people weak people already moved from nicolai and as you saw that uh queue to the bridge i think

these are people who want to move to move out outside from the city are you recommending that people leave uh i can say that because uh we don't need how will be the behavior of our enemy and in what way they will try to attack our city so we recommend people to who have any kind of problems with health, with an ability to move, just to leave the city. And what's your plan? To fight. So this is the only plan, to fight till the end. The captain leaves the ship. He is the last one, the person who the end. The captain leaves the ship. He is the last one, the person who leaves the ship.

So I'm here. Over the next day and a half, Ukrainian forces engage in a tremendous battle with Russian soldiers. The Russians, within the city limits of Mykolaiv, they seized the airport. But over the course of about 12 hours, Ukrainians were able to push them out of the airport, push them off to the city limits. And it created this brief window of calm in the city. And it created this brief window of calm in the city. And it's at that point that Tyler Hicks and I, a photographer with the New York Times,

set out to explore some of the sites where these battles had occurred. We, at one point, came across this Russian T-90 battle tank sitting on the side of the road. Everything should work now, right? was damaged when the ukrainians blew up a bridge and the tank rolled over the top of it its right side isn't working left side is working and so they're trying to somehow figure out a way to repair it so that the ukrainian forces can take it over the famous white z that is on the side of a lot of the different equipments has been painted over with green here and they put a Ukrainian flag on the top of it. While we were there checking out this tank, a group of Ukrainian soldiers ran up to us and told us that they had had a call, a Russian helicopter was incoming, and then we had to get out. Nikola! Valera, fire!

Take him away! Maxim! Helicopter coming. Helicopter. We got a helicopter coming, we got to run. Back to the car, past the tank. which we probably don't probably don't want to meet so the sun is up over Mykolaiv now. We were woken up about 5 in the morning with a massive Russian artillery barrage

that lit up the sky over large swaths of the city. This is a day after Ukrainian forces pushed Russian troops outside of the city limits and retook the airport. We'd been told that the Russians were mounting their forces for a counterattack, and that seems to have begun. It's about 8 o'clock now, and the artillery firing is still going on, and there's smoke over the city. A short time later, Tyler and I set out into the city to find the area's hardest hit. They're trying to talk to me. And we came across a woman named Olga.

I was in the bathroom with my child. Her apartment building was cracked open. There was a large hole straight through the middle of it from where a Russian rocket had hit. There was glass everywhere. Not a single window had glass in it. Debris had rained down on the street below. And people were in each of the windows trying to clean up the wreckage of their homes. Olga was one of them. I started talking to her and asking about what she went through the night before.

She told me she lived through a nightmare, that she was woken up at 5 a.m. and that she had hid in the bathroom with her child. She asked why we were there doing this, why we were interviewing her and whether that would help her at all. And then she turned her anger on President Vladimir Putin of Russia, saying that he's killing peaceful people. And for what, she said. So that the Ukrainian people could somehow be under him.

And I asked her at what point, what else she'd want to tell Vladimir Putin if she could. And first she said nothing. if she could. And first she said nothing. And then she said she wanted him to suffer the same way that she had suffered

that morning. Вы понимаете? Я понимаю. Не знаю, что делать. Я бы вас снять не хотел. У вас есть возможность отсюда. Куда? Нет, у нас денег нет. Вы понимаете? Мы ж не знали, что такое будет. У нас на данный момент даже на хлеб нету, потому что всё прекратилось.

Работа всё прекратилась в один момент. Мы не будем ждать. Мы не будем ждать. Everything is like it was before. Everything is like it was before. We are going to be free. We are going to be free. For more than a week now, this has been the reality for so many people in this city Mykolaiv. Even now, as I'm recording this, shelling is going on outside, and I can't tell you for certain

whether it's Ukrainians firing out or the Russians firing in. And every day I wake up sort of wondering how much longer this town and these people and this small Ukrainian force that's defending it can hold on. We'll be right back. This is Valerie Hopkins. I've been reporting from Ukraine since before the war started, and this week I've been trying to report on the city of Mariupol, which is a port city in the southeast of Ukraine that's just 35 miles from the Russian border. Right now, it's the last city in a critical swatch of territory for moving supplies and troops that's holding out against Russian control.

Mariupol has been surrounded on all sides for a week by Russian forces, and the city is slowly running out of food and water. People have been desperately trying to get out. And on Wednesday, I was able to speak with someone who finally did. Hi. Hi. I'm Valerie. Nice to meet you. I wish it was not to have this conversation. Her name is Marina, and she fled Mariupol a few days ago

as the situation became increasingly dire. So how are you? Where are you? My friend, she has a flat in Vyv. So I came here, and actually it's such kind of relief because it was really hard to be in Maripol. But now it's even harder there. I don't know how people are surviving there. My parents left there and my husband left there as well.

Oh, they're still left there? They're there, yeah. Oh my God, I'm so sorry. And can you communicate with them at all? There's no cell phone service, right? For a few days, no connection at all. But I know what's going on because we have these groups on Telegram. The people are putting pictures and videos and sharing the information.

And I know about what's going on from that groups, not even from the news. People are trying to find their relatives because there is no connection and people some of the people are in europe and they have relatives in maruco and they are texting to this group please i will pay money can you go and check this address is it somebody alive there just please go and check but yesterday yeah my husband get through so I talked a little bit and it's actually it's hard to talk because he's in a panic he's in a stress and I'm trying to talk and he don't want to tell me anything and I'm asking how how are my parents they are they lives in the center of Maruco and I said did you visit said, no, I can't visit them because it's shooting all the time.

And actually the center is destroyed. So he said, maybe today I will go and I will visit them because it's a few hours, it's like quiet, you know, no shootings, no explosions. This is pretty much how it's been for Marina since she fled Mariupol, trying to piece together bits and pieces of information she can get from phone calls and texts when she's able to get through, trying to find out if her family is surviving the Russian assault. So he went, and I was just like, can I talk to my parents?

Can you give a phone? He said no. And I'm just like, why? Why no? And it's like he's hiding from me something. And I was just like, how is is their house is it destroyed or not he said yeah there are no windows there and actually now it's minus eight in marupo and it says this it will be even more colder soon and there is no water, no heating, no gas, no food. And they are collecting snow, melting the snow, boiling the snow, and they are drinking the snow and maybe cooking. I don't know.

So what I do know that people, they are cutting the trees around the house and they are cooking outside and people trying to survive like this. And actually yesterday, my husband texted me that I'm going to stress and I'm asking why it's quiet from you, why you are not texting to me. You have this chance to talk to me. And he said, what can I tell you? There is no water, nothing. I'm sleeping on the floor, no windows, and it's explosions everywhere. And I think we have food for a few days left. That's it.

And it's cold, and my shoes are wet all the time. Left, that's it. And it's cold and my shoes are wet all the time and I can't warm up my feet. And so I don't know if my parents, where can they get the food? And thanks God my parents have a roof. Yeah, they don't have windows, but they have a roof in their house. That's it. And so they're staying there. How old are they? Can you tell me a bit about them? They are almost 70. Quite old, you know, quite old. Almost 70 years old.

And I said to them, will you move or something? And they were just like, to where? Marina said she asked her parents to leave Mariupol with her, but they didn't see how. It was their home and their lives were built in that city. My mom, she was born in Mariupol and my father, he was a seaman.

I was born in Mariupol, like my husband. Her mother was born there. Her father worked there as a seaman and saved enough money for them to buy a few apartments that they took care of and rented out for extra money. And they couldn't really imagine leaving and starting over. And plus, they loved their beautiful house very close to the sea. And so they stayed behind with her husband. How old are you and how old is your husband?

I'm 28 and my husband is 30. He's a taekwondo champion. he's a taekwondo um a champion he was a taekwondo champion wow yes uh so he's really has lots of medals and everything you know so he's like a well-known guy in the taekwondo uh so there was there were lots of kids training with him I think more than 100 and his kids are world champions in Europe in the taekwondo and actually we just married in June the previous year so it's just a half a year like we are married and actually everything was perfect because my parents they worked hard all their life to make my future easier you know and actually I can tell the same thing about my husband's parents they as well so we were okay with my husband in Maripol terms, you know, we had a car, we had the new flat and actually

the whole life should be in front of us because we worked and we tried to make our future as easy as possible. You know, we dream to travel and we will buy nice frying pans and everything, you know, and we plan that we will have a kid. So it was a normal life, like everybody dreaming to be like this, you know. We never dreamed to leave the Maripol. Marina says they just never imagined anything like this could happen. Even as talk of military conflict grew, she said no one in her town,

no one in her family expected that a war could go on like this. Nobody expected it's going to be like that because we had already a war in 2014 and it was not so big. They'd experienced war back in 2014 when Russia annexed Crimea, which is nearby, and forces loyal to Moscow took over Mariupol briefly. Yeah, a few houses were destroyed, but not the center, you know. And people, yes, people left in 2014.

They left and then they came back and built everything from the beginning. So it was kind of a lesson. So that's why when we find out that there are going to be the war, we thought it will be something light, you know, not so hard like it's now. It would be something like in 2014. Yeah, it was quite scary in 2014, but not like this. So that's why people were quite relaxed and they stayed in Morocco. And actually nobody knew that it would be no food, no water.

Yeah, we had an expectation that it's going to be hard and we bought some extra food, you know, for a hard time. But nobody knew that it's going to be this. But soon the provision started to run out as Russian forces were strangling the city. And we can't move because it's shooting all the time from the Russian side. started to run out as Russian forces were strangling the city. The shelling and bombing campaign also persisted, and Marina began to see people lying dead in the streets and actually we got the message i've got the message on my cell phone from i don't know what kind of organization it was but it says that if somebody will die in your family just

put the body outside tie the hands and the legs and let it be outside or if you can dig it under the ground if you can if not just leave it and cover it that's it so now it's what's going on in maruco bodies are there and uh just laying there and everything happened so quick that I can't even believe, you know, my life was destroyed like this in a minute. Can you tell a little bit about how you finally made the decision? You know, the hardest part is to decide because, you know, you're in this horrible position for so long without, you know, without food and water. And then you have to make a decision that's going to change your life. Can you talk a little bit about the decision-making process, like how you decided to leave and who you went with and, yeah, and what you were kind of weighing in your mind about whether to stay or go or... Yeah, it was hard to decide to leave. But actually, my husband, he said, pack your stuff, pack the suitcase, and if it will be a chance, you will leave. And I was just like, no, I will

not leave you. I will not go from Maripos I will not leave my parents and he said I will try to care about your parents if you will stay you just probably gonna die with us or something like that so you just if it will be a chance you will go he said and I cried but I packed my stuff but I would I swear I wasn't it was for sure for me that I will not leave you know so the in a few days he came and he said yeah let's go and leave your suitcase you can't take the suitcase take just a small bag and we will try to put in a car as many people as we can so you can't take your suitcase so I took the small bag, and he just put me in a car with his parents, with my father-in-law and my mom-in-law and a few girls being there.

One of the girls is my friend, and we moved. She went on to tell me the story of how she made her way out of the encircled city. She went on to tell me the story of how she made her way out of the encircled city. As they drove west, they had to pass through a series of checkpoints controlled by Russian troops. And they decide it's better to travel through smaller back roads, getting help from villagers along the way to avoid checkpoints, until they finally make it to western Ukraine. And now I'm sitting in Vy and I'm crying actually I think for me it was easier even to be there you know to be without water without heating without food it doesn't matter but I was with

my relatives and now I don't know what's going on. And actually, I texted to my husband yesterday and I said, I would come back to Maripu. You know, he said, you can't do that. What does it mean you will come back? Nobody will let you go. You probably will be killed, you know, if you try to get back. No, Marina, no, people are trying to leave and you are trying to come back. But, you know, it's love. And my husband said to me yesterday that try to find a job in Lviv.

And he said, I don't know if I will stay alive. So you should care about yourself. But I'm sitting here and I don't know what should I do. Should I move from Lviv? And it's worrying me because it feels like if I leave the Ukraine, it feels like I'm running, you know. And I just wish, I don't need the flats, I don't need the property, I don't need anything.

I just wish my parents to be alive. property i didn't need anything i just wish my parents to be alive my husband's sleeping on the floor and actually and trying to help other people so i do worry about my husband and i said to him So I can give even my life instead of for him, really. I'm not kidding. So when I left, I told him, please try to save your life because I'm going to die if something happened to you, really. And you should know that you are the biggest love of my life, you know. Inside of you, mine as well. And now, I don't even know if I'm going to see him again. That's it.

On Wednesday, the Russian bombardment of Mariupol touched off international outrage when it struck a maternity hospital. The attack sent pregnant women, many of them bloodied and clutching their stomachs, fleeing the hospital. According to the Ukrainian authorities, 17 people were injured in the attack, and three were killed, including a child. Across the city, conditions continued to deteriorate. Ukrainian officials said that a six-year-old child died from dehydration, as parts of the city lost water. We'll be right back. Thank you. They failed to agree on terms for a ceasefire, nor did they agree to form safe corridors to allow Ukrainians to flee areas of Russian bombardment. On Wednesday, Russian officials accused the United States of waging a, quote, economic war against them by banning the importation of Russian oil. They also threatened to seize the assets of Western businesses, like Starbucks

and McDonald's, that have suspended operations in Russia because of the war. Meanwhile, in Washington, Congress finalized a nearly $14 billion package of military and humanitarian aid for Ukraine, a bipartisan show of support for Ukraine's fight against Russia. a bipartisan show of support for Ukraine's fight against Russia. Today's episode was produced by Rachel Quester, Michael Simon-Johnson, and Moosh Zady. It was edited by M.J. Davis-Lynn and Lisa Chow. Contains original music by Alicia Baitu,

Marian Lozano, and Daniel Powell. It was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brumberg and Ben Lansford of Wonderly. That's it for The Daily. I'm Sabrina Tavernisi. See you tomorrow.