The Daily - ‘It Has All Gone Too Far’

Episode Date: December 7, 2020

The state of the 2020 U.S. election is, still, not a settled matter in Georgia. For weeks, conservatives have been filing lawsuits in state and federal courts in an effort to decertify results that gave a victory to Joe Biden. On Twitter, President Trump has been making unsubstantiated claims that the state has been “scammed.”With Georgia in political turmoil, threats of violence have been made against state election officials, who have been scrambling to recount votes by hand, and against their families.Still, dozens of prominent national Republicans have stayed silent.Last week, Gabriel Sterling, a little-known election official in Georgia, did something his party is refusing to do: condemn the president’s claims.For today’s episode, we called him to ask why he decided to speak up.Guest: Gabriel Sterling, a Republican official who is the voting system implementation manager in Georgia.For an exclusive look at how the biggest stories on our show come together, subscribe to our newsletter. Read the latest edition hereBackground reading: “Stop inspiring people to commit potential acts of violence. Someone is going to get hurt, someone is going to get shot, someone is going to get killed. And it’s not right,” Mr. Sterling said in a four-minute rebuke of the president last week.The last act of the Trump presidency has taken on the stormy elements of a drama more common to history or literature than a modern White House.For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily

From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. For four minutes and 41 seconds last week, a little-known Republican official in Georgia came forward and said what dozens of national Republicans have so far been unwilling to say about the president's efforts to overturn the results of the election. Today, a conversation with that official, Gabriel Sterling.

It's Monday, December 7th. Mr. Sterling. Yes, can you hear me? How are you, sir? I am running around like a one-armed paper hanger. How about y'all? I don't think I know that reference. Well, think about it.

If you're hanging wallpaper one arm, it's very difficult. Well, let's jump in. We really appreciate you making time for us. So thank you for doing this. Okay. So I want to start by asking you to describe your job and how that job fits into the Georgia election system. It was sort of a new thing because after really 20 years, I guess 18 years, we replaced our old electronic-based voting system, which was a no-paper system, where you'd go to a touchscreen, you'd cast your vote, and that touchscreen would hold the tabulation with a memory card. But there was no paper trail. Right. And as we saw moving forward after 2016, 2018, internally in the state of Georgia,

it was decided we need to move to a paper-based system. And my job was really to kind of herd the cats of launching a system across 159 counties of a brand new technology with a lot more pieces and parts with a paper ballot component and get it all done. And we were struggling to find any project manager for this. Every engineering firm, every company we went to, basically, we could have paid them a half a million dollars. And they said, the lawyer's like, no, reputational risk is too high. I mean, we get one lawsuit, and we lose the money, and we lose the power of our brand. So, we couldn't get anybody to do it. And finally, internally, I said, Gabe, you've been running this thing for

essentially a year anyway. You know all the ins and outs. It's too late to get somebody new, so why don't we get somebody hired to do your other stuff as a contractor, and you go on to be the project manager for this. And that's how I became the voting system implementation manager. Got it. And just to be clear about this new system and this new role that you were in, following issues with the voting process and claims of voter fraud in Georgia in 2016 and 2018, it was all intended to be building up to a secure and hopefully well-run 2020 election. And your job, working from within Georgia's office of the Secretary of State, was essentially to be the guy that made sure everything was in place and that it all worked.

Yes, that's essentially end of the day, boiling it down like good journalists do. You got it. I accept that praise. And Georgia's Secretary of State is a Republican. Are you a Republican as well? Yes. Lifelong. And may I presume then that as a Republican, you are a supporter of the president? You have voted for the president. I did vote for the president this time. I voted for him before. I mean, I hate talking about who I voted for. I'm a government functionary, but at this point in this role, you can't avoid that.

But yes, I did vote for him. So as a Republican, and as someone who supports the president in general, I wonder how you felt when your state, this longtime Republican stronghold, became so central to the outcome of this election and ultimately flipped blue for the first time since, I think it was 1992. I knew, I've been around this for a long time, I knew that it was, I mean, let's face it, in 2018, Stacey Abrams came within 55,000

votes of defeating Brian Kemp for governor. Right. So we saw it coming, and the people who were so shocked by this are people who haven't watched Georgia. Two of our big suburban counties, Cobb and Gwinnett, that had been Republican forever, flipped to Democrat control. And they went for Stacey Abrams in 2018. There was nothing you saw in the progression of votes that jumped out like, wow, that's really anomalous. That's really strange if you're paying attention to what's on the ground. And it was about Wednesday evening, I guess, when I was kind of looking at what was out still and kind of looking at what was still coming in, knowing the counties and the volume of votes that were there, I started talking internally. I said, okay, we got to prepare for this because it looks like the president's going to lose by about 10,000. And I was spitballing at that point. I was

pretty darn close. So we started knowing it was going to happen because, you know, Tuesday into Wednesday, let's set the stage a little bit. In June, we had a very successful election with the exception of really one county, which is our largest county, Fulton, and they had about 70% of our issues. They had lines, they had technical issues, they weren't really technical issues, they were training issues. And, you know, they had the lines come from that. So we were really hyper-focused on having a successful election in November. And Secretary Raffensperger had launched his November plan of action, which was we were going to have a tech in every single precinct. We were going to have the three weeks of early voting plus a mandate this Saturday and no-excuse absentee. We built an absentee ballot portal to make it easier

for people to request them and easier for them to process them. We had 1.3 million votes in on absentee by mail. We had 2.4 million, I think, in on early voting. And we had about 990,000 in on election day. So we had no lines. The average wait in Georgia on November 3rd was three minutes. Three. So pretty smooth. We were in victory lap mode, man.

We had slayed the dragon of long lines. You said victory lap mode, which is interesting to hear and I guess kind of speaks to your priorities. Yeah. Because your preferred presidential candidate lost, but you're saying the election

felt like a victory nevertheless because the election went smoothly. Our job is to run a good, safe, secure election. Every human being has their own preferences. But if you're a professional, you ignore all that

and just do the job. And in this role, we're worried about the safety and security of the election system so people have faith in the outcome. And if you do anything that could undermine that, that's negative for the republic. And that's our main goal is to protect that. So in the end, as you've hinted at, this is a very close race, so close it ends up triggering a recount in Georgia. So what did you think when the president began to challenge the results of this very smooth election? Well, I mean, I thought, okay, this is America. We have due process and there's always going to be illegal votes. There's always going to be things because it happens in every single election. You know why? It involves human beings. The most flawed part of the system is always going to be human beings. Between the voters, the elections workers, the poll workers, people will make mistakes. I mean, we know there's going

to be a handful of dead people who vote. We know there's going to be a handful of people who double vote. We do everything we can to put up roadblocks and try to catch that on the front end. But there's nothing looking like 13,000 or some grand conspiracy. And then, and it was really funny. If you go back and look at the timeline, it didn't flip fully and we didn't finish everything off until really about eight or nine days out from the election. And neither side knew what to say because if they started attacking the system,

they might still win and they look foolish. They'd be attacking their victory, right? Yes. So everybody kind of froze for a minute. And then when it was obvious that the president had come in second, that's when it seemed to sort of flip. But at that point, you'd already had sort of the Michigan conspiracy theories out there and Pennsylvania. And they kind of built on those because we use Dominion voting systems here in Georgia. And just to be clear, Dominion is the name of the contractor that you work with. Yes.

But if you look at Dominion, a simple look at math will show you that they couldn't have been part of some grand Venezuelan ghost conspiracy from Hugo Chavez. I mean, in the counties in Wisconsin where Dominion was used, President Trump won 59% of the vote. In the counties in Pennsylvania where Dominion voting used, President Trump won 59% of the vote. In the counties in Pennsylvania

where Dominion voting systems were used, he got 52.5% of the vote. And did they have such a crazy algorithm that in Georgia, he won the places he was supposed to win, he lost the place he was supposed to lose, but lost it by just enough while the Republicans won other things,

you know, to make it. It's just, it's fever dream level of crazy if you want to, unless you want to ignore math. Right. And that math doesn't add up. Math doesn't work. I mean, that's what's so frustrating about a lot of these conspiracy theories is this simple, quick, critical thinking would show you this is crap. This is nothing. So do I have it right in saying that at first you watched what the president was doing and you respected his right to question the results? But as time went on and his claims and the claims of those around him felt increasingly kind of untethered from reality, you became more and more frustrated. Yes. tethered for reality, you became more and more frustrated. Yes, especially early on what happened is threats started coming in to Secretary Raffensperger's wife

of 40 years, Tricia, like on her cell phone, like sexualized violent threats. And that began the process where we got him Georgia State Patrol protection. And then I started doing the briefings, so I was on television way more than somebody with the title voting system implementation manager ought to be. So you're literally going out to a podium and starting to brief people on what you know about the count and questions.

We were doing two press conferences a day and doing hourly press releases. We were as transparent as we could possibly be about what was going on, where were the votes, where was the process, you know, everything. So I started getting some threats too. And when you say you start getting threats, and I don't want to be too graphic here or gratuitous about this, but what do you mean? Okay, like the simple one that is kind of stuck with me was, you know, I turned 50 on November 14th. So somebody tweeted up, enjoy your last birthday cake. You know, those kind of things. But then my cell phone number is out there publicly. I used to be a public elected official.

I was on the city council in Sandy Springs. So it was sort of out there in the internet world. So I started getting text messages. And so I talked to the state patrol guys here. And I talked to my local police chief, which was helpful for being on the city council formally. I knew him personally. So I've had police protection around me.

And so that's sort of when it started getting to be a little nutball crazy town around us. So we started watching it continue to sort of amp up. And then if we're gonna get to that point, I guess that the Tuesday where I had, for what people down here are referring to as the moment, about an hour, hour and a half before that, I got a call from the project manager from Dominion Voting Systems from over in Colorado. And she was audibly shaken.

I had heard something about some videos going around. And, you know, we have people doing videos and claiming things. We have people stalking our warehouses and videoing everything going on, saying, you're going to prison to folks. You have people with video cameras stalking your warehouses, meaning the places where voting is being counted. Or not voting necessarily, just like our Center for Elections warehouse. There's really nothing there except for our election management system. And we had a warehouse guy. He's a warehouse guy. He's putting stuff outside in the trash and loading things up, like, you're going to prison. Things like that. So we had the police go out and try to get people back from that. And so that Tuesday, when I got the call from the project manager from Dominion Voting Systems, and I had heard about this video, so I went and finally looked up the tweets and everything going

around it. And there was a kid, and I finally talked to him and found out what it was. On the election management system, he was taking something called a batch report, which is one of the steps you do in a recount to make sure we're scanning this many batches, this is how many ballots are in this batch. It's a check to make sure you're catching everything and you're tracking it properly. So you take that report off, and he took it to a county computer to put in so he could put it in an Excel spreadsheet, read it, and print it so they could check everything off. Pretty standard.

Yeah, very standard. So the guy comes in, and these two guys are watching it, and they're these QAnon conspiracy folks. And it's like, look at this guy, and they call him Nerd Boy. He's like moving stuff around. He's manipulating votes. We're watching him. He's stealing the election right here.

He's committing treason. So they put that out. It goes onto those, you know, QAnon kind of message boards and whatever place those go. So people figure out who this pretty anonymous-sounding young contractor is from Dominion, and they put his name out there. And they get his name, and it's a very unique name. So not only is he catching flack, his family members are catching flack. And the one I finally just snapped was I was scrolling through the Twitter thing, and there was this guy put up there. They said the kid's name.

I say kid, he's a 20 something. He's the guy who took a job. He's a contractor. He's an IT guy. And had his name because you've committed treason. May God have mercy on your soul with a swinging noose and a gif. And at that point, I was done.

I always said, this is it. And I went to the Deputy Secretary, Jordan Fuchs and Secretary Brad Raffensperger and said, I think we got to say something. And they could tell I was pissed. So let's talk about this moment. You go to your boss, you go to Secretary Raffensperger, and you say, I think I need to do something.

What happened? Set the scene for me. Well, I went to Jordan, the Deputy Secretary, first. Okay. And I kind of walked her through it, and I was like, this, I'm done. We got to, so she's like, okay. They didn't tell me what to say, but she got the secretary on the phone and said, listen, Gabe wants to go do this, and I believe his exact words, let him go do what he does.

Hmm. And so. What did you interpret that to mean? Let me go do what I do, which meant at that point they knew how pissed I was and they said, you just go say what needs to be said. I didn't get marching orders, but you saw the next day he said, I agree with him. I wouldn't necessarily use the exact words

because he's a much more soft-spoken man than I am. But he said, go do it. Okay, so what's next? Well, we already had a previously scheduled conference because like I said, we've been doing commonly two a days. News conference. Yep. Yes. And we had been, you know, we were in the middle of the recount at this point, kind of explaining the process and where we were and everything. So I knew I had about an hour, which is probably good for me because I kind of calmed down a little bit, but I don't write things down. I'm not scripted.

I just kind of riff. So I knew it was coming and I was coming down some and I had some ideas of the direction I was going to go, but I never know exactly what I'm going to say. And I remember walking out of the door and I still had to do the regular briefing, but I walked with, okay, this is going to be kind of a two-parter, guys. It's going to feel, it's going to be a little different. And that's why I said, it's got to kind of put my hands on the podium. And I had no idea what I was going to say, but it just flowed. Good afternoon. My name is Gabriel Sterling. I'm the voting system implementation manager for the state of Georgia. And just to give you all a heads up, this is going to be sort of a two-part press conference today. In the beginning of this, I'm going to do my best to keep it together because it has all gone too far.

All of it. I didn't know I was going to call out the president until about 20 seconds in. So at that point, I kind of made the decision. And I finally, just like I said, it just, it was in my gut and it all just kind of went. So it has to stop. Mr. President, you have not condemned these actions or this language. Senators, you have not condemned this language or these actions. This has to stop. We need you to step up, and if you're going to take a position of leadership, show some.

My boss, Secretary Raffensperger, his address is out there. They have people doing caravans in front of their house. They've had people come onto their property. Tricia, his wife of 40 years, is getting sexualized threats through her cell phone. It has to stop. This is elections. This is the backbone of democracy and all of you who have not said a damn word are complicit in this

it's too much yes fight for every legal vote go through your due process we encourage you use your first amendment that's fine death threats physical threats intimidation it's too much it's not right they've lost the moral high ground to claim that it is I don't have all the best words to do this because I'm angry and the straw that broke the camel's back today is, again, this 20-year-old contractor for a voting system company just trying to do his job. Just there. In fact, I talked to Dominion today and said he's one of the better ones they got.

His family's getting harassed now. There's a noose out there with his name on it. It's not right. I've got police protection outside my house. Fine. You know, I took a higher profile job. I get it. Secretary ran for office. His wife knew that too. This kid took a job. He just took a job. And it's just wrong. I can't begin to explain the level of anger I have right now over this. And every American, every Georgian, Republican and Democrat alike should have that same level of anger. Mr. President, it looks like you likely lost the state of Georgia.

We're investigating. There's always a possibility. I get it. And you have the rights to go through the courts. What you don't have the ability to do, and you need to step up and say this, is stop inspiring people to commit potential acts of violence. Someone's going to get hurt. Someone's going to get shot. Someone's going to get killed. And it's not right. I, it's not right. Y'all, I don't have anything scripted. This is, like I said, I'm going to do my best to keep it together. Mr. President, as the Secretary said yesterday,

people aren't giving you the best advice on what's actually going on on the ground. It's time to look forward. If you want to run for re-election in four years, fine, do it. But everything we're seeing right now, there's not a path. Be the bigger man here and stop, step in. Tell your supporters, don't be violent. Don't intimidate. All that's wrong. It's un-American.

I don't know what else to say on that front. I mean, these are elections. One of our goals was to make elections boring again. Well, guess what? That didn't happen. This is all wrong. It's all too much. And that's probably enough for there. Okay, now as a citizen of African-American households, here's the information I need. We'll be right back. Were you nervous as you delivered all this did you understand that it was going to be a very big deal oh no no way in god's green acre i think it's gonna be a big deal i thought it would be a quick thing here in local stuff but i was pissed off really dude there's no nobody walks up thinking hey this is gonna make national international nobody, nobody thinks that. That's not a normal response. I mean, and in fact, it was really funny that day,

my fiance had gotten a new job and I found out about three hours before this happened. And I promised her, I said, we're going to focus on you. We're going to go to dinner. We're going to have a great night. And so I had to go do it. Tonight, today is about you. Yes. I mean, my phone was blowing up, but I figured it was local. I didn't really worry about it. And then we went to dinner, and I told her I was not going to look at my phone.

And we got home at like 11, and my phone was still blowing up. And I'm getting ready to go to bed, and I just hit Twitter and stuff before I go to sleep. I'm like, huh. This is getting a little more pick up and stuff before I go to sleep. I'm like, huh, this is getting a little more pickup and play than I thought or intended. So yeah, at this point, it's still otherworldly to me. It still doesn't feel real. It's just, like I said, the New York Times podcast

would not normally be talking to somebody with the title Voting System Implementation Manager. That's not normal. Fair. But it was such a break from how Republicans had been handling the moment to date. That's why I asked you if you understood that it might be a big deal. So that's why I am not surprised that it got the response that it did. Well, in retrospect now, with people across the country,

I mean, it's good and bad. I mean, I'm getting a lot of support, a lot of emails. You know, flowers got sent to me yesterday. That was new. Who sent you flowers? Some random person from Connecticut saying, thank you very much. I just got another handwritten note from, let's see, somebody in Macon, Georgia.

Another handwritten thank you note from Bellingham, Washington. Could you just read a line or two from one of those? Thank you for being so strong and assuring the results of our elections are honest. You've done a great job of not allowing our president and the other bullies to get you to say or do things that are not true. Keep staying strong. Let's see. Thank you for your leadership during this difficult time. You've been a shining star at great personal cost. You stood solidly for integrity, the truth, and doing the right thing. It is individuals like you that give us hope for the future. Yes, those are wonderful things to get. But if I ever want to get my ego put back in place, I can go to my email where I can go back to my death threats.

So those are things that can keep things even keeled. So this is a real mixed bag. It's a mixed bag. I wonder how you felt and feel about becoming essentially in an instant? I mean, I have to be honest. I had never heard of you before I saw you in a video online. You don't have to post you've heard of me. I was a city councilman in a random city as a voting system implementation manager.

There's no reason normally for you to have ever heard of me. But I wonder how you feel because in, as I said, just an instant you become a pretty singular figure within your party, the Republican Party. Someone who came out at a moment when the entire Republican Party, more or less, was still defending the president or staying silent. And doing the opposite and calling out the president, leaders of the party, saying something is very, very wrong here.

How did it feel to become that person? Let's be honest, Michael, until you just said that, I hadn't considered myself that person. I mean, I've been doing a lot of interviews. I get that, but I just, I'm a process guy. I am a, my first Republican campaign, I was 15 years old. I've been in this party for essentially, it defines a large part of what my life is like. I'm a process guy. My first Republican campaign, I was 15 years old. I've been in this party for essentially, it defines a large part of what my life is like.

And I've now been forced to, you're not the first person to suggest something like that, but you put it in a succinct way that had not, I had not looked at it at that angle necessarily. The party has values and things they care about and i'm going to continue to fight for the sanity and the sanctity of that party to carry those positions now an underlying attachment to that is a dedication to republican as in the institutions of the republic set of values. You know, a judiciary that is believed, a free press that is protected,

a election and system that is done with integrity in such a way that no matter who wins and who loses, both sides say, yes, we lost, we won, we'll move on to fight another day. An ability for government to function, because the only way capitalism, our neighborhoods, this is something I've been saying. I think that everybody who gets any higher elected office

has to have served at least one term on a city council, school board, or county commission, because that's where real work gets done. It's not just giving speeches. You have to actually find ways to make things work. And I'm a believer that roads are supposed to be paved. You're not supposed to think about it. When you call the police, they're supposed to show up. You're not supposed to think about it. Your military is supposed to be, you know, well-stocked and put

in the right places. You're supposed to follow your treaties. I mean, there's norms and things we all have to uphold for the entire system to work. And if those things fall apart or are attacked by either side, I mean, it hurts everybody in the long run. And one of the things that bothers me, and this is about Republicans and Democrats alike, especially in D.C., undermining the left from the left, undermining the right from the right, and making everybody else the other and the enemy as opposed to somebody who I have philosophical opposition to. I don't think most elected officials on either side want to see the other side burn in a fire. But both sides essentially say, hey, the other side wins, you're going to burn in a fire. I mean, that is because they've now moved to base level politics because that's in vogue today. And maybe there's a way you can get back to sanity. I mean, and there's people

on my part say that's being a squish. There's people on the other side going, well, you need to be a hard, hard left to be really true to the socialist agenda we have. I mean, there's both sides to do this. And maybe my way of doing things is out of vogue. I don't know. But that's the way I've always viewed it. Well, you're sort of getting at what I was curious about, whether you were conflicted at all about this role that you have now taken on, given your status as a lifelong Republican, a proud Republican, to be seen by some of your fellow Republicans, and maybe even its current leader, as a kind of traitor, a betrayer. But it seems like you're saying, actually, you see what you are doing here as your duty to the Republican Party. And I'm telling you, this kid, I haven't talked to him yet, and I want to.

Had it not been for that, I don't know if I would have had that moment. Mm-hmm. And, excuse me a second. It was a real, it was tough. You're real emotional about it, aren't you? Yeah. And I don't want to do that in public,

but okay. So, this is about the future of a nation that I've spent a lot of my time trying to make better at the national level, local level, state level.

And I was never supposed to be this. I'm, people have heard it before. And I was never supposed to be this. People have heard it before. If you've read some of the things, I'm the detail-oriented, nuts and bolts, let's make it work guy. That's what I do. So how does the actions of the leader of the party,

the president of the United States, the top Republican in the country, and his supporters responding to him, and the fact that only a few Republicans are speaking out against it, how is that leaving you feeling about the Republican Party at this moment, about so many of your colleagues? Did they talk to you? What did they say about what you had said to them? Because you had basically said to them, you're being kind of cowardly. being kind of cowardly.

I guess to a degree I did do that. Again, I wasn't thinking, I was just going. So mostly I've gotten positive feedback from most of them saying, man, somebody should have said it sooner, which we could do that. Wait, they say they wish they could do that, but of course they can do that. They could, but they said,

we don't recognize our party anymore, maybe of course they can do that. They could, but they said, we don't recognize our party anymore. Maybe over time we can do it. Hmm. I wonder if you thought that this speech you gave was going to change anything. And I don't mean to sound overly cynical, but I would have been surprised if it did. And in the time since, the president has not stopped questioning legitimacy of the election. In fact, he has since then delivered a speech in which he repeated these baseless claims about fraud from the White House. His lawyers, as you know, they're in Georgia making similar claims. They're making

those claims online. They're posting conspiratorial videos about suitcases and ballots in Georgia. And we're speaking to you, of course, on Friday. Tomorrow, the president himself will be in Georgia delivering a speech that we expect will be more of the same. And as you say, Republicans may be telling you privately they wish that they could say something, but they aren't saying anything. So it doesn't feel like this speech had its intended effect. It did to a degree. They at least got out there and said, yes, of course, we condemn violence. That's at least one thing. And I've got more of my local elected state folks here believing what we're telling them. So, but I will say this, it shouldn't be a big deal for people to say what they think in a way with integrity

and have that suddenly be, wow, that's really strange and novel. It shouldn't be that hard. But that is in some ways the story of the Trump era and the Republican Party, your party. Yeah. I just want to clarify one thing. Yeah. Who most of all do you hope heard you giving that speech? Who would you like to imagine listening to it and what would you like for it to have meant to them?

Honestly, there's hundreds of thousands of election workers around the country who pulled off this election. They need to know somebody's on their side and in their corner. That's who I most wanted, and especially I wanted that kid and his family to hear it. He needed to hear that. Mr. Sterling, we really want to thank you for your time and for your work and we appreciate it Thanks Michael, you have a great day You too

Before his rally on Saturday night in Georgia, President Trump called the state's governor, Brian Kemp, and urged him to call the state's legislature into a special session so that Republican lawmakers could appoint a new slate of electors who would declare Trump the winner there. It does not appear that Kemp will do that. And I have to say, a few hours later,

if I lost, I'd be a very gracious loser. If I lost, I would say I lost and I'd go to Florida and I'd take it easy and I'd go around and I'd say I did a good job.

But you can't ever accept when they steal and rig and rob. Can't accept. During his rally, You know, we won Georgia, just so you understand. Trump repeated his baseless allegations of election fraud and falsely claimed that he, not Joe Biden, had won Georgia. We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. The Times reports that with ridership at historic lows because of the pandemic, the nation's largest public transit systems are proposing massive cuts that could cripple service for years.

Washington, D.C. may eliminate weekend and late-night subway service and close 19 different stations. Boston is warning that it may end weekend service on its commuter rail system and shut down the city's ferries. And New York City may cut subway service by 40%. All of those systems have asked the federal government for financial help, but so far have not received it. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.