The Daily - Monday, Jan. 29, 2018

Episode Date: January 29, 2018

As the Trump administration clamps down on immigration, some asylum seekers are fleeing to Canada. But is it the promised land they had hoped for? Guest: Dan Bilefsky, a New York Times reporter in Canada. Thank you to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation for their interviews with migrants crossing the border. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily.

From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. Today, as the Trump administration clamps down on immigration, asylum seekers fleeing to Canada are discovering that it's not quite the promised land some had hoped for. It's Monday, January 29th. And this breaking news from the Department of Homeland Security. Breaking news that has to do with immigration right now. We're just learning that moments ago the Department of Homeland Security said it will end. Decided to end.

Is ending. The temporary protected status. TPS had allowed nearly 60,000 Haitians to live in the U.S. since the 2010 quake. 200,000 Salvadorians, many who have lived in the U.S. since 2001, are being told that they have to leave the country by September 2019 or be deported. are being told that they have to leave the country by September 2019 or be deported. I lost my house in Haiti. 2010, I lost my house.

I don't have nothing in Haiti. When I go to Haiti, I don't have a place to stay and my two children born here. It's a nightmare for us. What does it mean? To us, it means that our sense of protection, our sense of security, all of that is going to vanish. When President Trump signaled that migrant groups, including Haitians and El Salvadorans, would be losing their temporary protected status, all of a sudden, thousands of migrants started pouring across the border from the United States into Canada. Under the threat of the temporary protected status being lifted,

they are afraid of getting deported from the United States and think they have a better shot of getting asylum if they cross the border into Canada. Dan Bilefsky reports for The Times from Montreal. the border into Canada. Dan Bilefsky reports for The Times from Montreal. Most of the migrants I spoke to told me that they had left their homes in the United States, whether in New York or elsewhere, essentially boarded a Greyhound bus to Plattsburgh in New York State. And from there, they take a taxi to an irregular, unofficial part of the border to try and circumvent an agreement between the United States and Canada, which requires migrants to apply for asylum in the country where they first arrived,

in this case, the United States. However, if the migrants enter at an unofficial part of the border, this creates a loophole that then allows them to apply for asylum in Canada. And it sounds like this is something that's understood by both officials on the border and the migrants trying to cross it. Exactly. Many of the migrants told me that when they arrived, they were only too delighted to be arrested by a friendly Canadian Mountie or Royal Canadian Mounted Police. Are you from Haiti? Yeah. Are the kids American citizens?

It's not like the Mexican border where you can imagine trying to breach a wall. It's not like the Mexican border where you can imagine trying to breach a wall. The Canadians recognizing that all these people are coming have actually established, you know, an informal greeting process. This is an illegal point. This is not a way to come in. Yes, we know. Does anybody have a valid visa currently for the United States? Even if it expires soon?

Yes. Yes. Are you aware that the very minute you cross this border, your status in the United States, even if it expires soon. Yes. Are you aware that the very minute you cross this border, your status in the United States is nullified? Yes. So it's sort of like wink, wink, nudge, nudge system that has been created by which they end up being screened and fingerprinted, asked how much money they have, and kind of whisked across the border,

in some cases with their families. Do you have any questions for me? No, no, no. We just want to come in, that's it. No. For the fact that we believe in Canada, that Canada can solve our problem, that's why we are here. We are safe. And we don't have any other choice to go back. We don't have any other place to go back. Our mind is made up. We want to come into Canada. We want to come into Canada? Yes. And Dan, what happens once the migrants get past the border and into Canada? So once they're screened and fingerprinted and get into Canada,

some of them end up at migrant centers, and in many cases they team up with another migrant to rent a low-cost apartment. And when they apply for asylum and are waiting for an answer, they are given a work permit, so they can work almost immediately, a monthly stipend of about $500 US, free health care, and even free French lessons. Wow, so there's an immediate attempt to set these migrants up,

give them shelter, give them an opportunity to work, and I guess with the language skills to assimilate all the resources that they would need to basically start a new life in Canada. Yes, a new life. Diversity is its indispensable ingredient. I think when people think of Canada, they think of this kumbaya liberal paradise, this multicultural place that welcomes and embraces diversity and immigration. And this has become all the more pronounced as Canada has presented itself as a liberal counterpoint to the United States of

President Trump. Now many of you have reached out to me recently in thanks for Canada's compassionate response to the Syrian refugee crisis. The idealized image of a welcoming country was reinforced by Justin Trudeau, the Canadian Prime Minister, who in January of last year tweeted that those fleeing war and persecution would be welcome in Canada. And that came just days after Trump temporarily barred travelers from seven majority Muslim countries. Hello. Pleasure to see you. Thank you very much. Oh, listen, it's our pleasure.

We're very happy you're here. We are very happy. Welcome to your new home. Let me tell you something. When I welcomed those first families to Toronto last month, I welcomed them as new Canadians and as the future of the Canadian economy. I remember Trudeau at the airport

greeting those Syrian refugees flying in. I remember actually, I think the Canadian government even packaged a video that was beautifully produced and suggested just how welcoming the country was. It was a very moving set of images. No, it was. And indeed, Justin Trudeau has self-consciously presented himself as a liberal progressive alternative to President Trump and the President's United States on everything from immigration to health care. And as a result,

I think immigrants the world over and in the United States see him as some sort of benevolent, welcoming figure. And the result is that thousands of migrants have been heading to Canada. I found that Canada was the best option for me and my family. You guys understand humanitarian. Unlike in the United States, you treat people as human beings. I went to search Google and I figured out this is what everybody's doing, that Canada has a future for the children, for everybody. So that's why I want to give it a chance.

It's a risk, I understand that. I want to take the risk because I know there's a future here for me and the baby. Why don't you stay in the United States? Because Donald Trump don't want me to stay in the United States. But I don't care. Because I believe Canada has a better offer than the United States can offer me. You think Canada will let you stay? Yes, they will let me stay. Why do you think that? Because I'm not going back. They you stay? Yes, they will let me stay.

Why do you think that? Because I'm not going back. They don't have a choice then to let me stay. That's why. But that's not actually true. Many of them will not get to stay. Many of the migrants who are streaming into Canada and requesting asylum don't qualify for asylum.

And once judges adjudicate over the viability of their claims, if they don't qualify for asylum, they will be deported back to their country of origin, which in the case of many is Haiti. So people who are leaving Trump's America for Canada are playing a game of Russian roulette in the sense that if they get deported from Canada, they will not get sent back to the United States or to their homes in New York State. They will be sent back to Haiti and their situations could be far worse than if they would have just stayed in the United States to begin with. Canada says the number of asylum seekers crossing from the U.S. to Quebec is unprecedented. 3,000 in July and almost 4,000 in just the first half of August, equaling around 250 people crossing every day. And not only that, the Canadian immigration system is being stretched to a near breaking point. And there is a backlog of some 40,000 asylum cases and not enough judges to adjudicate. So the process can drag on for as long as two years. Wow. Two years of just waiting to figure out whether you'll get asylum. But all along, they are getting the benefits that you

described. Exactly. The surprising thing is that the system is under so much strain that the Canadian government is even resorting to sending members of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party, themselves former refugees or immigrants, to the United States to warn would-be immigrants not to come and to emphasize the point that the country may not be the promised land that these immigrants expect. Canada is sending former immigrants who benefited from Canada's open immigration system out into the world to dissuade future migrants from coming to Canada. That's kind of remarkable. It is quite remarkable. So, for example, earlier this month, Pablo Rodriguez, a Liberal member of Parliament who was born in Argentina, traveled to Los Angeles to meet with members of the Hispanic community there, you know, to explain the limits of Canadian asylum policy. We've read in some papers, in Latin American papers, that anybody could come here in Canada and just walk in and stay forever, which is not the case.

We have a system in place, a system that works, and I want to make sure that I speak with the leaders, that I speak through their own medias, in their own language, and that they understand that it's not the case and there are rules that have to be respected. And then in Montreal, earlier this summer, the government also sent Emmanuel Dubelg, a liberal Haitian member of parliament for Montreal,

to Miami's little Haiti to spread the word that getting asylum in Canada was very, very difficult and to signpost the fact that the country was not the promised land. Are you asking people to stop coming? I'm telling the people what is it exactly, what is the risk if they come irregularly in Canada. If we deport These envoys and their message trying to dissuade people from entering Canada, it feels directly counter to the welcoming initial messages that were coming from Canadian leaders, including its Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau. And it would seem to undermine the image that Canada wants to project to the world. I think Canada is still emphatic about presenting itself as this liberal, progressive country.

And Justin Trudeau, although he's done some backpedaling, is trying to walk that fine line between maintaining Canada's image as this welcoming country, but at the same time not creating a situation where the country becomes overburdened by refugees or asylum seekers. But I think part of it is also about preventing a nationalist backlash like we've seen in the United States or Europe. The biggest threat to civilization across the world is Islam, without a doubt. Where an anti-immigrant far right has made great strides in everywhere from France to the Netherlands and Hungary.

Immigration, immigration that destroys our identity. made great strides in everywhere from France to the Netherlands and Hungary. Justin Trudeau, much like Angela Merkel, fairly or not, has been depicted as one of the leaders of the Western liberal world. And we all saw in Germany, which welcomed more than a million refugees, the backlash there where a far-right party did better than anyone ever expected. And Canada emphatically does not want that. It wants to be able to keep its open door policy by ensuring that those who really deserve to be here are given the opportunity. So David, what's the latest there? Yeah, Michael, things have changed a fair bit since we last talked. When we spoke last,

the pro-immigration protesters outnumbered the anti-immigration protesters. But since then, I want to move and show you what's happened. A second and a third wave of Storm Alliance members have now come to this spot here in Saint Bernard de la Cole to the point that their numbers have swollen to pretty much rival the pro-immigration protesters that were on the other side. The reason we're here today is to denounce Justin Trudeau and the Liberals for his lack of involvement in helping refugees integrate our society. I don't agree with all the people that are that are come here illegally. I just want to know if people are coming in Quebec or in Canada act like a Canadian. Trump giving the green light to these migrants to flow to Canada has in some ways empowered the nationalists far right here.

So in some ways, this is a counterintuitive attempt by Canada to discourage immigration right now by this group of people in order to preserve in the longer term a political culture that is open to immigration. That is exactly right. This is essentially a preemptive or preventative move to try and prevent a backlash and to keep the multi-ethnic, multicultural, welcoming Canadian model. Hmm. We often look to Canada as a counterpoint to the United States. If the U.S. is clamping down on immigration, Canada seems to be a place that then opens its arms even wider to immigrants. Is that the wrong

impression? Is it more like the more the U.S. clamps down on immigration, the more Canada will also be forced to clamp down on immigration. In other words, the two countries might be ideologically counterpoints, but practically speaking, when it comes to immigration, they operate in tandem. They operate in a connected way. The reality is that because the United States and Canada share a long border, it's inevitable that the two countries operate in tandem. And if President Trump lifts protected status on refugees who start streaming in, you know, Canada has to respond. It's as simple

as that. I think it was Pierre Trudeau, a former Canadian prime minister, who said when the United States sneezes, Canada catches a cold. And that would very much also apply to immigration. sneezes, Canada catches a cold, and that would very much also apply to immigration. Our thanks to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation for their interviews with migrants crossing the border. We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. We'll be right back. 95 people and injured 158 others. Coming just days after the 15-hour siege at the city's Intercontinental Hotel, which left 22 dead, this weekend's attack added to what has been one of the most violent stretches in Afghanistan's 16-year war. Over the past year, the Afghan government reports that roughly 10,000 of the country's security forces have been killed, and the Taliban losses are believed to be just as large.

And... Mr. President, after you have been so warmly received yesterday here in Davos. It is now my great pleasure to officially welcome the President of the United States, Donald J. Trump, to the closing session of the World Economic Forum's annual meeting in 2018. The Times reports that after a two-day visit to Davos, Switzerland, President Trump was described by attendees there as more pragmatic than expected. It's a privilege to be here at this forum where leaders in business, science, art, diplomacy, and world affairs have gathered for many, many years to discuss how we can advance prosperity, security, and peace. I'm here today to represent the interests of the American people and to affirm America's friendship and partnership

in building a better world. In a speech at the forum, the president, who has repeatedly attacked the World Trade Organization, threatened to pull out of the North American Free Trade Agreement, and warned of a trade war with China, played down his populist rhetoric. As president of the United States, I will always put America first, just like the leaders of other countries should put their country first also. But America first does not mean America alone. When the United States grows, so does the world. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.