The Daily - On the Ground in Louisville

Episode Date: September 24, 2020

This episode contains strong language.Breonna Taylor’s mother and her supporters had made their feelings clear: Nothing short of murder charges for all three officers involved in Ms. Taylor’s death would amount to justice.On Wednesday, one of the officers was indicted on a charge of “wanton endangerment.” No charges were brought against the two officers whose bullets actually struck Ms. Taylor.In response, protesters have again taken to the streets to demand justice for the 26-year-old who was killed in her apartment in March.We speak to our correspondent Rukmini Callimachi, who is on the ground in Louisville, Ky., about the reaction to the grand jury’s decision.Guest: Rukmini Callimachi, a correspondent for The New York Times. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily Background reading: A former Louisville police detective has been charged with “reckless endangerment” for his role in the killing of Breonna Taylor. Protesters poured into the streets, and two officers were shot in Louisville after the announcement. The city’s police chief said that neither of the officers’ injuries were life-threatening.A Times investigation explores the events leading up to the shooting of Ms. Taylor and its consequences.

From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. Today, a grand jury in Kentucky, weighing evidence in one of the country's most contentious police shootings, declined to bring charges against the two officers who shot Breonna Taylor. My colleague, Luke Minicalamaki, is in Louisville.

It's Thursday, September 24th. Rukmini, it's about 12.30 in the morning on Thursday, and we're really grateful that we're able to talk to you. And I guess just to start with, where are you this morning? I'm in Louisville in an Airbnb where I'm staying. And how long have you been in Louisville? I got here on Monday. We heard last week that the Attorney General of Kentucky was going to announce whether the three officers who killed Breonna Taylor on the night of March 13th, whether or not they were going to be charged. There was a lot of anticipation over this announcement. Last week, Breonna Taylor's mother received a near record settlement of $12 million for the death of her daughter.

And a number of police reforms were announced by the city. But her mother and her relatives and advocates for Breonna Taylor have made it very clear that nothing short of charging all three officers who killed her with murder would amount to justice. Now, I've spent the last couple of days speaking to legal experts about this case. And the people that I spoke to said very clearly that they thought that the attorney general was essentially between a rock and a hard place. They said that because of the fact that when the officers entered Breonna Taylor's home, her boyfriend, Kenny Walker, who

mistook the police for an intruder, opened fire and shot one of the police officers. Because of that dynamic, the fact that the officers shot back and ultimately killed her would be protected under Kentucky's self-defense statute. So here you have Breonna Taylor's mother saying nothing short of an indictment of these three police officers involved in the raid that killed her daughter would represent justice. And on the other hand, you have all these legal experts saying that is extremely unlikely because of the sequence of events that happened and the state law governing police and self-defense. That's exactly it. And Breonna's family wasn't just saying that they should be

indicted. They were saying that they should be indicted for murder, for manslaughter. So on Monday, we knew that the grand jury began meeting. We had sources who confirmed that to us. We knew that they kept on deliberating on Tuesday. And by Tuesday night, we were expecting an announcement. Meanwhile, all over the city, there were signs of preparation for a clash. The mayor's office issued an announcement that a state of emergency had been declared. The police department announced that vacation days were going to be canceled. No police officers were going to be given off days. We started hearing that the National Guard might be called in, that the Kentucky State Police were sending officers here. And meanwhile, an ever-growing cordon was created around the

city square that had been the nucleus of these protests, which have been going on now in the city nearly every night for more than 100 days. They put up concrete barriers. They brought in big dump trucks that blocked off the streets chain link fences were put around the area making it impossible to drive there on top of that federal court announced last week they were closing then just before the announcement we heard that all of the other courts family court district court all of these other courts also announced that they were closing. It sounds like everyone in town seems to recognize what is about to happen and everyone is on guard for it.

Especially downtown. The Hyatt is boarded up. The Marriott is boarded up. Business after business, government office after government office in the downtown corridor, which is where the heart of these protests have been happening. And I think that's a reflection of the fact that more and more protesters were showing up in the square with weapons. This is an open carry state, so it's completely legal to do that. But there was an ever-growing sense that we were heading towards some sort of clash and that that clash could be violent. So what happens earlier today on Wednesday?

As soon as I woke up on Wednesday morning, I had a text message from one of my good sources, an official who's helped me understand this investigation. And he said cryptically, who's helped me understand this investigation. And he said cryptically, it's beautiful weather for breaking news, be ready. The next thing I heard was from a city official who confirmed the same thing, that there was going to be announcements soon. And we started hearing that a possible time

was going to be one o'clock, maybe two o'clock, and possibly that it was going to be in Frankfurt, which is an hour away from where I am now in Louisville. And it wasn't until 11.40 a.m. that I got an email from the Attorney General's office saying the announcement is going to be at 1.30. So I jumped in a car and raced to this place. It was like 15 minutes, almost an hour away. And I almost missed the cutoff. I mean, I literally got in my car the second I got the announcement, and I almost didn't make it.

When I got to Frankfurt, we found the capital had again been locked down. There were several city blocks that had police tape across them. Police officers directed me to where the media parking was. And then I entered the building where this announcement was going to happen. Once I got inside, there was a man who checked my bag. Then they asked me to put my bag on the floor. There was a dog with a handler that came and sniffed my bag. And then a second person took apart my bag and looked inside. And only at that point did they give me a badge and did I go all the way in. The chairs were spaced more than six feet apart.

It was a very spacious area because of COVID. We were all waiting quietly. And sometime after 1.30 p.m., the Attorney General, Daniel Cameron, stepped onto this makeshift stage. Good afternoon. Thank you for joining us today. And began addressing the reporters. The decision before my office as the special prosecutor in this case was not to decide if the loss of Ms. Taylor's life was a tragedy. The answer to that question is unequivocally yes. And he described the death of Breonna Taylor as a tragedy and then went on to explain exactly what the legal experts I had spoken to had said.

In the early morning hours of March 13th, officers from LNPD executed a search warrant at 3003 Springfield Drive, apartment 4. This was Ms. Breonna Taylor's residence. There were three officers who discharged their weapons on the night of March 13th. These three officers were sent to Breonna Taylor's apartment with a legal warrant that had been signed by a magistrate the day before. These were not rogue cops that just broke into somebody's house.

They had a legal document allowing them to go there. Sergeant Mattingly and Detectives Cosgrove and Hankinson had no known involvement in the preceding investigation or obtainment of the search warrant. They were called into duty as extra personnel to effectuate the service of the search warrant. They showed up at her apartment sometime after 1240 a.m. and they began loudly knocking at her door. This is something that we know from our own reporting because Kenny Walker, Breonna Taylor's boyfriend, confirmed hearing the knocking. The attorney general went on to say that they had witnesses that said that they heard the police both knock and announce themselves. When officers were unable to get anyone to answer or open the door to apartment four, the decision was made to breach the door. As soon as they went in, they were met with gunfire from Breonna Taylor's boyfriend,

who had not heard them announce themselves. Mr. Walker admitted that he fired one shot and was the first to shoot. The two officers who opened fire first, John Mattingly and Miles Cosgrove, were in the hallway directly facing Breonna Taylor and her boyfriend, and they returned fire in the direction in which they had been fired upon from. Sergeant Mattingly saw the man's gun fire, heard a boom, and immediately knew he was shot as a result of feeling heat in his upper thigh. So he explained to us that because of the Kentucky statute on self-defense, while there are six possible homicide charges under Kentucky law, these charges are not applicable to the facts before us because our investigation showed and the grand jury agreed

that Mattingly and Cosgrove were justified in their return of deadly fire after having been fired upon by Kenneth Walker. He explained that these officers were justified in shooting back. This justification bars us from pursuing criminal charges in Ms. Breonna Taylor's death. There was another officer, Brett Hankinson, a detective. He was also in this formation by the door. But when the shooting began, he did something that to this day remains inexplicable. And that is that he spun around and he ran outside into the parking lot. And from there, he began shooting blindly and erratically into the sliding glass door of her patio and into the window of one of her bedrooms.

And he did this even though both of those openings were covered with blinds, so he did not have a line in sight inside. We know that his bullets traveled through her living room, her kitchen, and clear through to the apartment in the back where there was a couple, a pregnant woman and her husband, and their five-year-old child who were asleep. After hearing the evidence from our team of prosecutors, the grand jury... This is when the attorney general then explained that that officer was going to be charged with wanton endangerment. For wantonly placing the three individuals in apartment three in danger of serious physical injury or death.

This is a lower class felony, one for which you can get up to five years per count, and he was being charged with three counts because of the fact that his bullets traveled into the apartment behind Breonna Taylor's where there was the couple and their child. Crucially, he explained something that we did not know up to this point. There is no conclusive evidence that any bullets fired

from Detective Hankinson's weapon struck Ms. Taylor. He said that Brett Hankinson's bullets did not touch Breonna Taylor. The person whose shots killed her was a detective named Miles Cosgrove, who was in the hallway of her apartment. And this is according to the ballistics analysis that was done by the FBI at their lab in Quantico. Rukmi, just to summarize,

during this news conference, the attorney general said that charges will be brought against the one officer whose gunshots never struck Breonna Taylor. That's right. And in the case of the two officers who did shoot Breonna Taylor, neither of them will be charged. You know, we had anticipated that this was most likely going to be the result that would occur. You know, we had anticipated that this was most likely going to be the result that would occur. But it was clear from the way that the attorney general presented this information that he had himself agonized over it and that he knew that this was going to disappoint people. He said at one point in the press conference, this is a tragedy.

And sometimes the law, the criminal law is not adequate to respond to a tragedy. And then he went on, Detective Cosgrove and Sergeant Mattingly were justified in returning fire because they were fired upon. I know that not everyone will be satisfied with the charges we've reported today. My team set out to investigate the circumstances surrounding Ms. Taylor's death. We did it with a singular goal in mind, pursuing the truth. Kentuckians deserve no less. The city of Louisville deserves no less. In her community, I actually watched that news conference, and what I heard him say next was basically that the people of Louisville, who he knew were going to be upset by what he said and by what you heard, because you were in the room, and he basically presented them with a choice. You know, will you accept this, even though you may not like it, or will you react

with rage and even with violence? That's right. That's right. One of the quotes that I wrote down in my notebook was, if we simply act on outrage, there is no justice. Mob justice is not justice. Justice sought by violence is not justice. It just becomes revenge. Our reaction to truth today says what kind of society we are. Do we really want the truth? Or do we want a truth that fits our narrative?

We'll be right back. Thank you. Louisville. I'm with the New York Times newspaper. What do you think about this? You know, look what's happening. You know it ain't right, man. My colleague John Eligo. How do you feel about the decision there? How do I feel? Yeah. It's not right, man. My colleague Maliki Brown. My colleague Alexandra Garcia. They need to be held accountable, but the whole damn system needs to be held accountable.

They have fanned out across Louisville. They're in the square. They're in the areas where the protesters are. You did not do, don't do! No one has been held accountable. And they're reporting that the protesters are sobbing. They murdered her! They murdered her! And that anger is mounting. No life for the black lives matter! No justice!

No peace! No justice! No peace! No justice! No peace! And for the first part of the day, they were chanting, they were chanting, they were walking.

And then you started to see a couple of small disturbances. Maliki Brown was present at one area of the city where a protester that had a stick began smashing some windows and broke the windows of a business. They kept marching and they kept on getting dispersed by the police in different areas. By late afternoon, I had made it back. And at this point, because what the city had done by creating all of these roadblocks and chain link fences and obstacles leading to the square, what that meant is that there wasn't a central point for them to meet. So for much of the day, we were just kind of, you know, chasing the protesters.

They're here, they're there. We're going to this place. We're going to that place. This is the World Environmental Police Department. But if you take these things long, this is an unlaw Police Department. Let a Kentucky state law. This is an unlawful assembly. And I can make my operation so simple, it's immediately and peacefully dispersed. Things intensified when the sun went down.

It was my colleague, Alexandra Garcia, who was filming at an area that was near an overpass when suddenly shots rang out. Very quickly on social media, we started to see messages indicating that a police officer was down. Officer down, they're backing officers out. Take cover! Take cover! I was actually with Sam Aguiar, who's Breonna Taylor's family's lawyer. He had just walked past me on the street.

And we got as far as an area where we saw squad cars with flashing lights. And it was at that point that I got an email from one of the police spokesmen who said that an officer had been shot. In fact, more than one officer had been shot and that they would get back to us when they had more information. It's past curfew. We're walking in the streets of Louisville. And we're following a protester right now who has gotten a GPS pin to the safe house, he says, where the protesters are gathering. It's now illegal for protesters and citizens to be outside. Media are still allowed. But we're following this young man who is taking us to where the other protesters are.

At that point, we fell in with a group of protesters, and they had shared that there was a safe house that they were going to. And so we followed them to the safe house. We're now at a church that has been opened by, apparently by the religious community, and it's giving a sanctuary to the protesters. The safe house was actually a church. It was the first Unitarian church. And when I got there, I was able to speak to Reverend Laurie, the minister of that church. And she explained to us that they had researched the law, that it was private property, and that they believed that the municipal ordinance stated that even when a curfew is in place, if you're leaving a religious service, you cannot be stopped. leaving a religious service, you cannot be stopped. When we got there, there was a guy called Father Tim, who was giving out bottles of water to the protesters. They had snacks, granola bars, chips, everything. And several dozen protesters arrived there, and they were using their megaphones in the sanctuary of the church, giving the same speeches that they would have been giving out

into the square. After you heard the results of the investigation today, what's your reaction to that? It made me want to come out and march for the first time. They've been marching for 119 days. This is the first time I feel like I should come. Rukmini, I'm curious, as this scene is unfolding, if you're able to talk to people about their reaction to this grand jury decision, what they're saying about it. Well, in anticipation of the decision, I had a series of conversations with people in the square about what they expected.

to some of them, there's a pretty big gap between the facts that I and other reporters have been able to uncover in this case, as we've dug and dug and dug, and the narrative and the version of events that the protesters believe. The narrative that I was getting from the protesters, including things like that the police had gone to the wrong address or that the police had no legal right to be there. These details don't line up with the actual facts of the case. But this is a narrative that has become much bigger than the facts in this case. And that's partly because both the city and the attorney general and other officials have been so stingy with releasing information on this case. I mean, I came here in July and it took every bit of reporting skill that I had to dislodge these hundreds and now thousands of pages of investigative files. It was really,

really hard to get them. But it's only by getting all of this that I finally have this bigger picture that the attorney general talked about today. The other issue is Breonna Taylor's name. Her as a byword for racial injustice has spread from coast to coast. She's become bigger than the facts of her case. She's become a symbol of a young black woman killed

in a cruel and awful way by a group of white cops. Breonna Taylor! Breonna Taylor! Breonna Taylor! Breanna Taylor! Rihanna Taylor! Taylor Day! Rihanna Taylor! Taylor Day!

Rihanna Taylor! Rukmini, try to get some sleep, and thank you very much. Thank you so much. Take care, Michael. Thank you. We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. Here's what else you need to know today. The body of the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg was carried into the Great Hall of the Supreme Court building on Wednesday for the start of three days of public mourning for her death.

It has been said that Ruth wanted to be an opera virtuoso, but became a rock star instead. But she chose the law. During a short ceremony, the court's chief justice, John Roberts, remembered Ginsburg as a champion of equal justice. Her 483 majority, concurring and dissenting opinions will steer the court for decades. The voice in court and in our conference room was soft. But when she spoke, people listened.

Among the words that best describe her... That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.