The Daily - On the Road With Ukraine’s Refugees

Episode Date: March 7, 2022

This episode contains strong language. In response to Russia’s increasingly brutal campaign against Ukrainian towns and cities, an estimated 1.5 million people — most of them women and children ��� have fled Ukraine over the past 10 days. It’s the fastest displacement of people in Europe since World War II.While evacuating the capital city of Kyiv for Lviv in the west, a seven-hour journey that took two days and nights, the Daily host Sabrina Tavernise traveled alongside some of those fleeing the conflict.Background reading: With most Ukrainian men legally prohibited from leaving Ukraine, the international border gates serve as a painful filter, splitting families as women and children move on.Spared direct attacks so far, Lviv, a city in Ukraine’s west, has become a transit point for thousands of fleeing refugees and for men and supplies headed to the front lines.Want more from The Daily? For one big idea on the news each week from our team, subscribe to our newsletter. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday. 

From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. In response to Russia's increasingly brutal campaign against Ukrainian towns and cities, an estimated 1.5 million people, most of them women and children, have fled Ukraine over the past 10 days, the fastest displacement of people in Europe since World War II. Today. Sabrina Tavernisi traveled alongside them as they made their escape. It's Monday, March 7th.

We're leaving the hotel room. What time is it, Valerie? I think it's about 4.10. It's 4.10 p.m. on Tuesday, and we're leaving the hotel room in Kiev, walking through a very dark hallway to an elevator that will bring us down to the car where we will drive south and west.

Last Tuesday, the New York Times made the decision to pull a group of reporters out of Kyiv and bring them to a city in western Ukraine that was safer, called Lviv. I was one of those reporters, and so was my colleague Valerie Hopkins. The drive was supposed to take seven hours. Instead, it took us two days and two nights. And just as we closed the trunk in the parking lot of the hotel, we heard this huge bang and then another. We just heard some artillery, unclear if

it's incoming or outgoing. We got into the car and drove out and some ambulances driving by. Later we would discover that those two booms were Russian military trying to blow up the television tower in downtown Kiev. The truck, the traffic lights have stopped working. They're all just blinking. have stopped working. They're all just blinking. It's really, really sad. They're so empty.

We're just driving through an intersection where there are some very serious-looking barricades. A bunch of sandbags and probably a couple of dozen men in black uniforms walking across the street holding rifles. in black uniforms, walking across the street, holding rifles. After driving down those back roads out of Kiev, under that really dark, low sky, we stayed in the town of Bieled Zirkva,

and we were woken up by another enormous boom. We kept driving that next day. And we thought we'd pretty easily be in Lviv by dinnertime. But we just kept getting stuck. I mean, it was checkpoint after checkpoint, this unbelievable crush of cars. It's 4.50 p.m. on Wednesday. And we're in a line of cars as far as the eye can see on the highway going west toward Volf from Wienitza. Everybody has cars packed with kids, animals, suitcases. Woman holding a little boy just waved at me.

Lots of cars with handmade signs in the window, taped to the windows, saying children, detti. It's just stretched on for miles and miles and miles, just going slowly, maybe five kilometers an hour. And we're kind of neck and neck, so I'm gonna stick my head out the window here and see if someone will talk to me. Do you speak English? По-русски? По-русски? По-русски. Я из газеты New York Times.

Меня зовут Сабрина. Вы откуда сегодня едете? Кробивницкий. Где? Кробивницкий. Кробивницкий. А сколько вы едете уже? Кробивницкий. Часов 6. have you been driving? Krogyvnitsky 6 hours

We've been driving for 6 hours now What's your name? Valery Valery, nice to meet you And the kids are there, right? Yes His name is Valery and he has little kids in the back How do you feel now, Valery?

I'm depressed because my family is leaving and I'm really feeling quite down because my family is going out and I'm going to need to stay. I was in Odessa before and there are already explosions starting in Odessa before, and Odessa, there are already explosions starting in Odessa. Saying, what are your feelings in your heart right now? And they said, very, very heavy, very pressed down. And his wife is They're coming from Chernigov. What's your name? Dmitry. His name is Dmitry.

How long have you been in this traffic? We left Chernigov the day before yesterday. Why then? Why two days ago? Because I was tired of sitting in the cellar. We were really tired of sitting in the basement in a coffin. The planes were flying overhead. There was a war going on under my house. There, above my house, was a war going full force.

They are leaving their homes. The children are crying. was a war going full force. Children are crying. The old people are stuck in the houses. Their planes flying over. They can't get out. Just tell them to help, tell them to stop this, tell them to stop what's happening. If you can tell somebody, just communicate this,

you have to stop this somehow. My friend remains there. We just left. They told us it was mined. Please, please tell them to stop it. There were lots of moms consoling children. How are you feeling? Sitting on their laps, sitting in the back, playing with toys. It's really heavy.

It's really heavy. Children in the back. One little baby had a stuffed mobile hung above her head, made of cloth mushrooms. Hello? Hi, I'm a reporter from the New York Times. Will you talk to me? Yeah, like in a second, of course. made of cloth mushrooms. Hello? Hi. I'm a reporter from the New York Times. Will you talk to me? Yeah, in a second, of course.

Everybody talked about what it was that pushed them to actually go. There were so many explosions last night. The children were very afraid. And for the most part, it was explosions, bombs. So we're trying to get somewhere that is safe. Children feeling terrified, having to go down into basements all the time. And parents just decided they'd had enough. Where are you coming from?

From Kiev. I'm from Kiev. We are all from Kiev. Thank you, too. You're welcome. Good luck. Slavo Ukraini! Oh my goodness. Whoa, we finally reached the checkpoint. Whew. Dobry den! Dostoyevsky, New York Times.

By the end of the day on Wednesday, it became pretty clear that we were never going to make it to Lviv that night. It was already getting dark and we needed to stop for the night. And we were calling everywhere, any hotel, and everything was full. Nothing had rooms. And at some point, my colleague, Valerie, reached someone in a town called Vitivci, who said there was actually space at a kindergarten in their town. And it didn't seem like a great option, but it was dark and it was snowing. And at that point, we didn't have a better idea. So we drove to the town.

And we got out and a man greeted us and introduced himself as the mayor of the town. And he said, we just needed to bring our passports up to the second floor register. And then we could have the room in the kindergarten. Hi, I'm Sabrina. Hi. Nice to meet you too. Thank you for being here. They took us into the kindergarten and it was this... Oh, we're in a kindergarten and there's a little, oh, there's little cubbies. Really brightly painted series of rooms. Little cubbies, little child-sized seats. There's a painting of a giraffe and a palm tree on the wall. And a lot of spider plants.

Little silk flowers, and lots of little child-sized mattresses. Uh-huh. Come here, come here. Oksana's showing us the kitchen. Oh, wow. Oh, tea. Uh-huh. The tea, the teapot. Instant coffee. And then there's tea bags. So we started to settle in for the night, and a very kind woman who ran the kindergarten made food for us. She made us tea.

She made us spicy rice with chicken. And she had a huge jar of pickles that she had made herself that she brought out, and we each took a pickle. We had dinner at a tiny little child-sized table sitting on tiny little child-sized chairs. Asking if this is the other family, can I have, say hello? And pretty soon another family showed up. Okay, so Luda, grandmother and then three grandchildren. Yes. Yeah, nice. How old?

12. You're 12. How old are you? 19. 19? Yeah. How old are you, Max? 15. You're 15. How many hours did you drive? 12.

Oh, we were driving for 12 hours. Yeah. Did you come from Kyiv? No, no. Circassia. Oh, Circ were driving for 12 hours. Yeah. Did you come from Kiev? No, no. Cherkasy. Oh, Cherkasy. They came from Cherkasy a little bit below. What happened in Cherkasy? Was it an attack?

Explosions. Explosions. I'm saying what happened in Cherkasy and they're saying explosions. What was the impetus to leave? How did you decide to leave? what happened in Cherkasy and they're saying explosions My family that's living in Poland and my mom was calling every day she's really worried

she's crying The truth is I would actually like to stay She's really worried. She's crying. The truth is, I would actually like to stay. I think I would be helpful in some way. But my mom, I mean, I want to be with her. Really, I want to be with her. Ira, what are your feelings right now in your heart? I was driving and I almost started crying because I realized that I was running from my country, from my country, because of the war. It's a really horrible feeling actually

You hear this every day, it's horrible It's hot It's hot My dad is still in the town and so is my boyfriend My boyfriend actually went to man the checkpoints and that can be a dangerous thing in town to man the checkpoints

He stayed there and he won't leave On the other hand I'm really proud On the other hand I'm really proud. On the other hand, I was trying to convince him not to do it. But then I thought, no. Okay, go. Oh, beautiful. With honey?

With meat. Meat. Luda is offering us little pancakes with meat, and they're so good. While we were there standing in the kindergarten talking, a woman walked in. Her name was Larissa. She owned a hotel right down the street, and she told us it was overflowing. So we're going upstairs. People are, lots of people are sleeping, so we're going to try to not make a lot of sound.

She took us to her hotel, and when we went inside, we saw people lying everywhere. There's a man who's sleeping in the corridor. In the hallways, under tables. This is another little place for sleeping, underneath a piano. Next to a piano. So Armin is showing me where they're going to be sleeping. He's carrying a little child.

In a back room that was very small. Sometimes it feels like it just is an old movie that you're watching in front of your eyes. Something from Zara's time. That is to say, come in, come in, welcome, or you're going to sleep under the table. It's two women and a young child who just came through the door. And suddenly we heard these air raid sirens. Hey, Valerie, where are you going? And everyone in the hotel moved toward a trap door in the floor

and climbed down into the basement. Oh, it's scary, the little girl says. They've suffered such days my children we heard huge blasts they were shooting we hear how people are suffering. I was trying not to cry in Kiev, but when we left Kiev, I started just crying, and the tears wouldn't stop. When we left Kyiv, I started just crying and the tears wouldn't stop. We really want the Ukrainian army to win, to succeed.

We see how it's so unjust what's happening, so unjust. We want the Ukrainian army to win. So we're going back out of the shelter now, back out of the basement. Guess the danger is over. What time is it, you guys? It's 10.26. When we got the all clear after about half an hour, the families climbed back up the stairs into their hallways and back rooms and next to the piano.

And we went back to the kindergarten for the night. Spokojne noci. Bye. Good night. Pojedzim nazad. Good night. We'll be right back. In the morning, we all got up together. There was just one bathroom, and at that point, probably 50 people in the kindergarten. So we all took turns. Oh, someone's making noise. What's your name? My name is Caroline.

Caroline, what a nice name. I'm Sabrina. Yeah. And where are you going? Where are you going today? To Poland. Poland. You're going to Poland.

So, I'm a journalist. I'm a journalist from the New York Times. And I've been talking to people about where they're going and why they left. Why did you leave? What was happening? There's a lot of bombs, Caroline said. Yes. And is there something that you left behind that you wanted to bring? Is there something that you left behind that you wanted to bring? What is it?

My grandma, my dad. Your dad and your grandma are still there? And my... Anyway, we have hamster. Hamster? It's in the village with the grandma. With the grandma. What's the hamster's name?

Buzia. Buzia. What does Buzia mean in Russian? Buzia. Buzinka. Buzinka. It's like a pearl? Yeah.

Wow. Little pearl. Pearl hamster. He's white. Like a pearl? Yeah Wow, a little pearl Pearl hamster He's white He's white? Oh, good name Good name Sam, wait, I'm busy

She's busy, busy She's busy There's a little girl trying to get into the bathroom What's her name? She's busy, busy. She's busy. What's her name? Bye, Ira. Bye. Bye. We're leaving the school now. Okay. Just for a few years, we must establish.

It's a very snowy road. Whoa. It's 12.30 on Thursday, and we're in a checkpoint line in western Ukraine that's stretched at least two hours, if not more, we've seen mothers taking little kids off onto the field on the right side of the road here to pee and go to the bathroom. One woman was pulling up her little boy's green underpants just a bit ago, and we saw a woman helping an elderly woman, a babushka, down the sort of grassy area to get to the bottom so she could go to the bathroom,

and she fell. And then she tried to help her, and she was helping her up. Just an incredibly long line that's all of these people from all of these parts of ukraine from all over are waiting in to get out this is what happens when an entire country tries to evacuate in a week. We're at the very beginning of the checkpoint line that we've been in for two hours, and we're just pulling up. 1237.

Hello. Passports. Looks like a territorial defense guy checking our passports. Says, OK, go, go, drive. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. We finally got to Lviv in the afternoon on Thursday.

The city was packed and overflowing. The train station was swarming with people. Lviv is a place where people say goodbye. Men go back to their towns because the men couldn't leave Ukraine. Women and children

go on to Poland. We're driving up to the train station and it is quite crowded. Streets, the sidewalks on either side of the street are just packed. Lots of children. And now we're going to get out and go with Alina, the volunteer, who's going to take us to the train station. When I got to Lviv, I went to the train station with a volunteer named Alina Avramenko. She's working to help refugee women and children, and she works with them mostly in the train station. This is a packed sidewalk. People are leaving the train station, just a river of people leaving the train station. This is a packed sidewalk. People are leaving the train station, just a river of people leaving the train station. Oh my God, this is an unbelievably packed train station. You can't move.

It's like a concert. This is a queue for Poland. Oh my God. This is a queue for Poland. Now we are going for the waiting hall for mothers and their children. When our volunteers are situated and from where we are coordinated.

Great. I'm trying to get through and we can't get through. Oh, very huge bags right at my knees. I'm trying to get through and we can't get through. Restite. Very huge bags right at my knees. Backpack in my face. Okay. Oh, my God. There's a little boy holding a parakeet, a green parakeet in a clear plastic container that looks like it used to have cherry tomatoes in it.

It's a little parakeet. Oh, my goodness. People are grabbing their bags, moving really suddenly and kind of with some urgency and desperation. And while we were walking through the main terminal, now talking to the crowd, there was this surge forward in the crowd. Everyone was moving toward this tunnel, a kind of underground passage that was packed so tightly. This long line of people trying to get on the train to Poland. Alina's trying to explain.

I'm speaking. Be quiet. These are volunteers here. There are not many of us. We need order here. No panic. Don't break the rules. Don't let things get out of hand. Stop it.

Be quiet. We've been standing since 11.30. Stop! Stop! Let's let the train to Uzhgorod go! I need to say stop. The train to Uzhgorod goes through this corridor. Please, I need to go with my bulletproof vests.

Bring the guys here and organize a room. Alina is saying three lines. Three lines. Make way for us. Make way for us. Make way for us. Oh, my God. Let us through, please let us through. Let us through. Oh my God.

Look. Holy shit. Yeah, it's enough, even less than it was. Now we've gotten up to the platform. Yeah. We're going up to the women's and children's room? Yeah, and our medicine room and our... Our headquarters.

Yeah. Headquarters. So we're going up a stairway. And we're going up to the headquarters of the volunteers. It's also the place where the women and children can rest. A lot of women. People sitting on pieces of cardboard

oh rugs oh wow this is a hall of I would say probably 400 500 people in it lots of little babies there's a woman in a black puffer jacket. She's just

changing her son's underwear. A little boy is really sad. Do you speak English? Yes, I do. Oh, excellent. My name is Sabrina. I'm a reporter for the New York Times. Can I talk to you a little bit? Yes, we may talk.

Tell me your name. But I speak English so-so. It sounds very good. It sounds very good. So, what is your name? My name is Alena. Alena, nice to meet you. It's nice to meet you too. Alena, where did you come from?

I'm from Zaporizhia. Zaporizhia. A lot of people from the train station today are from Zaporizhia. Yes, yes. There are a lot of us. Yes. Alena, how are you feeling right now? Oh, shit.

How are you feeling right now? It is very... we are scared. We are scared and we don't know where we come, what will be in our future. We don't know. But we all... everything will be better. Но мы все... Все будет лучше. Мы надеемся на лучшее. Мы надеемся. Мы надеемся на лучшее. У меня в Запорожье осталась моя семья.

Мой муж, мои родные. Я вчера ехала в Хозе, просто я рыдала. Я еще уехала без вещей. Меня вот так. Вонюс ли с ребенка? Мы вместе с ней рыдали, но говорили друг другу, что все хорошо. И сегодня с утра она мне задает вопрос, как взрослая девочка.

Она говорит, это правильное решение? Я говорю, я не знаю. Я не знаю. Вы чувствуете себя And I said, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Do you feel like a refugee? Do you feel like a refugee? It's a bad question. Well, yes. I'm saving my daughter.

And I left my husband. I didn't want to leave my husband. I'm not leaving the country. I'm only going to Western Ukraine. I'm not leaving the country. And I know I'm going to be returning. I don't want that status. No, I love my homeland. I'm trying to make the right decision,

but I don't know, am I making the right decision? My husband tells me I need to take her. We're responsible for her life. I don't know if it's right, not right. I just had my family gathered all of our stuff and said, go, you must go. Yes. I'm just sending thoughts out to the cosmos that it's going to be okay. It's going to be okay.

Yes, yes. How do you do? My name in English is Tim. Tim? Your name is Tim? The last person I met in the station was a little boy named Tim. He was waiting by himself on a pile of suitcases. Tim, how old are you? Seven. Seven? He was waiting by himself on a pile of suitcases. Tim, how old are you? Сколько тебе лет?

Seven. Seven? Seven. Cool. А мама вернется? Где мама? А мама? Она не вернулась. She's upstairs. She went to get us tea. Upstairs?

Я знаю. И до... Downstairs. Downstairs, exactly. Good, Tim. You know, upstairs and downstairs. What else do you know in English, Tim? I speak Russian, Ukrainian, and English. I speak Ukrainian and I speak English. Tim, where are we now?

I don't know. I don't know where I am. I know where I came from. I came from Slavyansk. I came from Slavyansk. That's where I came from. My grandmother has such a warm coat. I've never Slavyansk. That's where I came from. I came from... My grandmother gave me for the journey. It's like my grandmother.

It's very warm. By the way, I want to tell you something. A secret. Let me tell you a secret. Let me tell you a secret. I want to tell you a secret that in the car, when I was in the car, I pulled out one of my teeth. Actually, two. This one and this one, with my glove.

Tim was curious about my English. And he said, How do you translate Kiev? I asked him what he meant. He said, I mean the city, Kyiv. That's where my dad was when there was still no war. So Tim has this excellent Lego thing. It looks kind of like a big robot.

Tim, you're taking this apart, this thing. I'm redoing it. I'm redoing it. It looks a little bit like a cat. It's very fluffy. On Sunday, for the first time, American officials said that Russian attacks against Ukrainian civilians could constitute war crimes, and that the United States was collecting evidence that could eventually be used for such a charge. charge. A few hours later, journalists for the Times witnessed the Russian shelling of a street used by civilians to flee fighting north of Kiev. One of the Russian missiles killed a woman, her two children, and a family friend. Photographs showed the dead children still wearing their backpacks. As of Sunday night, according to the UN,

at least 364 Ukrainian civilians have been killed and 759 have been injured since the start of the war. We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. What else you need to know today? Over the weekend, Russian police arrested more than 4,000 anti-war protesters who had taken to the streets despite a set of draconian new laws put in place by Vladimir Putin that make it a crime to oppose the war in Ukraine. One of those laws could even make it a crime for Russians to call it a war, since Putin has instead described it as a special military operation. Nevertheless, protesters across Russia were defiant, chanting no to war.

Today's episode was produced by Lindsay Garrison, Sydney Harper, and Caitlin Roberts. It was edited by Michael Benoit, contains original music by Marion Lozano and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.