The Daily - On the Road With Ukraine’s Refugees: An Update

Episode Date: December 26, 2022

This week, The Daily is revisiting some of our favorite episodes of the year and checking in on what has happened in the time since they first ran.This episode contains strong language.This year, in response to Russia’s increasingly brutal campaign against Ukrainian towns and cities, millions of people — most of them women and children — fled Ukraine. It was the fastest displacement of people in Europe since World War II.Today, we return to the beginning of the invasion and reporting from our host Sabrina Tavernise, who traveled alongside some of those fleeing the conflict.Background readingWith most men legally prohibited from leaving Ukraine, the international border gates serve as a painful filter, splitting families as women and children move on.Spared direct attacks so far, Lviv, a city in Ukraine’s west, has become a transit point for thousands of refugees and for men and supplies headed to the front lines.For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday. 

Hey, it's Sabrina. This week, The Daily is revisiting some of our favorite episodes of the year, and hearing what's happened in the time since they first ran. Today, we return to the beginning of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and the long and harrowing journey that many Ukrainians found themselves on as they fled their homeland for safety. It's Monday, December 26th. We're leaving the hotel room. What time is it, Valerie?

I think it's about 4.10. It's 4.10 p.m. on Tuesday, and we're leaving the hotel room in Kiev, walking through a very dark hallway to an elevator that will bring us down to the car where we will drive south and west. Last Tuesday, the New York Times made the decision to pull a group of reporters out of Kyiv

and bring them to a city in western Ukraine that was safer called Lviv. I was one of those reporters, and so was my colleague Valerie Hopkins. The drive was supposed to take seven hours. Instead, it took us two days and two nights. And just as we closed the trunk in the parking lot of the hotel,

we heard this huge bang and then another. We just heard some artillery, unclear if it's incoming or outgoing. We got into the car and drove out. And some ambulances driving by. Later, we would discover that those two booms were Russian military trying to blow up the television tower in downtown Kiev. The truck, the traffic lights have stopped working. They're all just blinking. It's really, really sad.

They're so empty. We're just driving through an intersection where there are some very serious looking barricades. A bunch of sandbags and probably a couple of dozen men in black uniforms walking across the street holding rifles. After driving down those back roads out of Kiev, under that really dark, low sky, we stayed in the town of Bieled Zirkwa, and we were woken up by another enormous boom. We kept driving that next day.

And we thought we'd pretty easily be in Lviv by dinnertime. But we just kept getting stuck. I mean, it was checkpoint after checkpoint, this unbelievable crush of cars. I mean, it was checkpoint after checkpoint, this unbelievable crush of cars. It's 4.50 p.m. on Wednesday. And we're in a line of cars as far as the eye can see on the highway going west toward the Wolf from Wienitza. Everybody has cars packed with kids, animals, suitcases.

Woman holding a little boy just waved at me. Lots of cars with handmade signs in the window, taped to the windows, saying children, deki. It's just stretched on for miles and miles and miles, just going slowly, maybe five kilometers an hour.

And we're kind of neck and neck, so I'm going to stick my head out the window here and see if someone will talk to me. Do you speak English? По-русски? По-русски? По-русски. Я из газеты New York Times.

Меня зовут Сабрина. Вы откуда сегодня едете? Я из Кропивницкий. Где? Кроп today? Krobyvnitsky. Where? Krobyvnitsky. Krobyvnitsky. How long have you been driving? Krobyvnitsky.

About 6 hours. We've been driving for 6 hours now. What's your name? Valery. Valery, nice to meet you. And the kids are there, right? Yes. His name is Valery and he has little kids in the back.

How do you feel now, Valery and he has little kids in the back. I'm really feeling quite down because my family is going out and I'm going to need to stay. What happened in your city when you left? Explosion. I was in Kirovograd, not Odessa. And in Odessa, they started to explode. I was in Odessa before, and Odessa, there are already explosions starting in Odessa. What feelings do you have in your heart right now? Right now.

What are your feelings in your heart right now? And they said, very, very heavy, very pressed down. And his wife is starting to cry. Thank you. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. I'm from the New York Times. My name is Sabrina. Where are you from today? Chernigov.

They're coming from Chernigov. What's your name? Dmitry. His name is Dmitry. How long have you been in this traffic? We left Chernigov the day before yesterday. We were really tired of sitting in the basement in a coffin. The planes were flying overhead. There above my house was a war going full force.

Children are crying. The old people are stuck in the houses. Their planes flying over. They can't get out. Just tell them to help. Tell them to stop this. Tell them to stop what's happening. If you can tell somebody, just communicate this.

You have to stop this somehow. My friend remains there. You can tell somebody, just communicate this. You have to stop this somehow. My friend remains there. We just left. They told us it was mined. Please, please tell them to stop it. There were lots of moms consoling children. How are you feeling? Sitting on their laps, sitting in the back, playing with toys. It's really heavy.

It's really heavy. Children in the bathroom. One little baby had a stuffed mobile hung above her head made of cloth mushrooms. Hello? Hi. I'm a reporter from the New York Times. Will you talk to me? Yeah, in a second, of course. Everybody talked about what it was that pushed them to actually go. There were so many explosions last night. The children were very afraid. And for the most part,

it was explosions, bombs. So we're trying to get somewhere that is safe. Children feeling terrified, having to go down into basements all the time. And parents just decided they'd had enough. Where are you coming from? From Kiev. I'm from Kiev. We are all from Kiev. Thank you too. You're welcome. Good luck. Slava Ukraini! Oh my goodness. Do you use it for the tailbacks? Whoa, we finally reached the checkpoint. Dobry den! Dobry den! the checkpoint. By the end of the day on Wednesday, it became pretty clear that we were never going to make it to Lviv that night. It was already getting dark and we needed to stop for the night. And we were calling everywhere, any hotel, and everything was full.

Nothing had rooms. And at some point, my colleague, Valerie, reached someone in a town called Vitovtsi, who said there was actually space at a kindergarten in their town. And it didn't seem like a great option, but it was dark and it was snowing. And at that point, we didn't have a better idea. So we drove to the town, and we got out, and a man greeted us and introduced himself as the mayor of the town, and he said we just needed to bring our passports up to the second floor register,

and then we could have the room in the kindergarten. Hi, I'm Sabrina. Hi. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet the kindergarten. Hi, I'm Sabrina. Hi. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too. Thank you for being here. They took us into the kindergarten and it was this... Oh, we're in a kindergarten and there's a little,

oh, there's little cubbies. Really brightly painted series of rooms. Little cubbies, little child-sized seats. There's a painting of a giraffe and a palm tree on the wall. And a lot of spider plants. Little silk flowers. And lots of little child-sized mattresses. Uh-huh. Come here, come here.

Oksana's showing us the kitchen. Oh, wow. Oh, tea. Uh-huh. The tea, the tehuh. The tea pot. Instant coffee. And then there's tea bags. So we started to settle in for the night, and a very kind woman who ran the kindergarten made food for us.

She made us tea. She made us spicy rice with chicken. And she had a huge jar of pickles that she had made herself that she brought out and we each took a pickle. We had dinner at a tiny little child-sized table sitting on tiny little child-sized chairs. Asking if this is the other family, can I have, say hello? And pretty soon another family showed up. Okay, so Luda. Anya. Anna, Ira, Max. Okay. So Luda is grandmother and then three grandchildren.

Yes. Yeah, nice. How old? 12. You're 12. How old are you? 19. 19?

Yeah. How old are you, Max? 15. You're 15. How many hours did we drive? Twelve. Oh, we were driving for 12 hours. Yeah.

Did you come from Kiev? No, no. Cherkasy. Oh, Cherkasy. They came from Cherkasy, a little bit below. What happened in Cherkasy? Was there an attack? Explosion.

Explosion. I'm saying what happened in Cherkasy? Was it an attack? Explosions? I'm saying what happened in Cherkasy and they're saying explosions. What was the impetus to leave? How did you decide to leave? My family is in Poland. And my mom just calls every day. And my mom was calling every day.

She's really worried. She's crying. The truth is I would actually like to stay. I think I would be helpful in some way. But my mom, I mean, I want to be with her. Really, I want to be with her. Ira, what are your feelings right now in your heart? I was driving and I almost started crying because I realized that I was running from the war, from my country, because of the war. I was going in the car and I was feeling like I was going to cry because I felt like I was leaving my country and it was actually war

and I was leaving my country. It's a really horrible feeling actually. You hear this every day, it's horrible. It's hot. Hot. My dad is still in the town, and so is my boyfriend. My boyfriend actually went to man the checkpoints, and that can be a dangerous thing in town, to man the checkpoints.

He stayed there, and he won't leave. On the one hand, I'm really proud, He stayed there and he won't leave. On the one hand, I'm really proud. On the other hand, I was trying to convince him not to do it. But then I thought, no, okay, go. Oh, beautiful. It's meat. Meat. Luda is offering us little pancakes with meat, and they're so good.

While we were there standing in the kindergarten talking, a woman walked in. Her name was Larissa. She owned a hotel right down the street, and she told us it was overflowing. So we're going upstairs. People are, lots of people are sleeping, so we're going to try to not make a lot of sound. She took us to her hotel, and when we went inside, we saw people lying everywhere. There's a man who's sleeping in the corridor. In the hallways, under tables.

This is another little place for sleeping, underneath a piano. Next to a piano. So Armin is showing me where they're going to be sleeping. He's carrying a little child. In a back room that was very small. Sometimes it feels like it just is an old movie that you're watching in front of your eyes. Something from Zara's time. That is the thing.

Come in, come in, welcome. You're going to sleep under the table. There's two women and a young child who just came through the door. And suddenly we heard these air raid sirens. Hey, Valerie, where are you going? And everyone in the hotel moved toward a trap door in the floor and climbed down into the basement. Oh, it's scary, the little girl says.

Be careful. Oh, it's scary, the little girl says. They've suffered such days, my children. We heard huge blasts. They were shooting. We hear how people are suffering. When we left Kiev, I started crying. I was trying not to cry in Kyiv, but when we left Kyiv, I started just crying,

and the tears wouldn't stop. We really want the Ukrainian army to win, to succeed. We see how it's so unjust, what's happening. It's so unjust. We want the Ukrainian army to win. So we're going back out of the shelter now, back out of the basement. Guess the danger is over. What time is it, you guys?

It's 1026. When we got the all clear after about half an hour, the families climbed back up the stairs into their hallways and back rooms and next to the piano. And we went back

to the kindergarten for the night. Spokojna noci. Bye. And we went back to the kindergarten for the night. Good night. Bye. Good night. Let's go back. Let's go back. We'll be right back. In the morning, we all got up together. There was just one bathroom,

and at that point, probably 50 people in the kindergarten. So we all took turns. Oh, someone's here. Say hi. What's your name? My name is Caroline. Caroline. garden. So we all took turns. So, I'm a journalist. I'm a journalist from the New York Times. And I've been talking to people about where they're going and why they left. Why did you leave? What was happening? Welcome home. There's a lot of bombs, Caroline said. Yes. And is there something that you left behind that you wanted to bring?

Yes. What is it? My grandma, my dad. Your dad and your grandma are still there? And my... Anyway, we have hamster. Hamster? It's in the village with the grandma. With the grandma. What's the hamster's name?

Buzia. Buzia. What does Buzia mean in Russian? Buzia. Buzinka. Buzinka. It's like a pearl. Pearl hamster. He's white.

He's white. Oh, good name. Good name. Sam, we're busy now. Wait. We're busy. Good name. There's a little girl trying to get into the bathroom. What's her name? I don't know. I'm asking Caroline all the children's names, but she doesn't know them. Bye Ira. Bye.

We're leaving the school now. I'll check if we're left. It's a very snowy road. Whoa. It's 12.30 on Thursday, It's 12.30 on Thursday, and we're in a checkpoint line in western Ukraine that's stretched at least two hours, if not more. We've seen mothers taking little kids off onto the field on the right side of the road here to pee and go to the bathroom. One woman was pulling up her little boy's green underpants just a bit ago, and we saw a woman helping an elderly woman,

a babushka, down the sort of grassy area to get to the bottom so she could go to the bathroom and she fell. And then she tried to help her and she was helping her up. Just an incredibly long line that all of these people from all of these parts of Ukraine, from all over, are waiting in to get out. This is what happens when an entire country tries to evacuate in a week.

We're at the very beginning of the checkpoint line that we've been in for two hours, and we're just pulling up. 12.37. Hello. Passports. Press, press. Passports. Passports. Looks like a territorial defense guy checking our passports.

Says, okay, go, go, drive. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. We finally got to Lviv in the afternoon on Thursday. The city was packed and overflowing. The train station was swarming with people. Lviv is a place where people say goodbye.

Men go back to their towns. Because the men couldn't leave Ukraine. Women and children go on to Poland. We're driving up to the train station. And it is quite crowded. The sidewalks on either side of the street are just packed. Lots of children. And now we're going to get out and go with Alina, the volunteer, who's going to take us to the train station.

When I got to Lviv, I went to the train station with a volunteer named Alina Avramenko. She's working to help refugee women and children. And she works with them mostly in the train station. This is a packed, packed sidewalk. People are leaving the train station, just a river of people leaving the train station. Oh, my God, this is an unbelievably packed train station. You can't move.

It's like a concert. This is a queue for Poland. Oh my God. This is a queue for Poland. Now we are going for the waiting hall for mothers and their children. Okay. When our volunteers are situated and from where we are coordinated. Great. I'm trying to get through and we can't get through.

Very huge bags right at my knees. Oh, okay. Backpack in my face. Okay. Oh, my God. There's a little boy holding a parakeet, a green parakeet in a clear plastic container that looks like it used to have cherry

tomatoes in it. It's a little parakeet. Oh, my goodness. People are grabbing their bags, moving really suddenly and kind of with some urgency and desperation. And while we were walking through the main terminal, now talking to the crowd, there was this surge forward in the crowd. Everyone was moving toward this tunnel, a kind of underground passage that was packed so tightly.

This long line of people trying to get on the train to Poland. Alina's trying to explain. I'm speaking. Be quiet. These are volunteers here. There are not many of us. We need order here. No panic. Don't break the rules.

Don't let things get out of hand. Stop it. Be quiet. We've been standing since 11.30. Stop! Stop! Let's let the police out! I need to say stop.

The police are coming out of every corridor. Alina's saying, stop. Alina's saying, three lines, three lines. Make way for us, Make way for us. Make way for us. Oh, my God. Let us through. Please let us through. Let us through. Oh, my God. Look.

Holy shit Yes Oh my god Now we've gotten up to the platform We're going up to the women's and children's room? Yeah, and our medicine room and our headquarters. Yeah, yeah. So we're going up a stairway. And we're going up to the headquarters of the volunteers.

It's also the place where the women and children can rest. the headquarters of the volunteers. It's also the place where the women and children can rest. A lot of women. People sitting on pieces of cardboard. Oh, rugs. Oh, wow. This is a hall of I would say probably

400, 500 people in it. Lots of little babies. There's a woman in a black puffer jacket who's just changing her son's underwear. A little boy in a blue jacket crying, just sobbing on a chair. The little boy in a blue jacket crying. Just sobbing on a chair. The little boy is really sad. Do you speak English?

Yes, I do. Oh, excellent. My name is Sabrina. I'm a reporter for the New York Times. Can I talk to you a little bit? Yes, you may talk. Tell me your name. But I speak English so-so.

It sounds very good. It sounds very good. So what is your name? My name is Alena. Alena, nice to meet you. It's nice to meet you too. Alena, where did you come from? I'm from Zaporizhia. Zaporizhia. A lot of people from the train station today from Zaporizhia. Yes, yes. There are a lot of us. Ilona, how are you feeling right now? It is very... We are scared. We are scared and we don't know where we come, what will be in our future. We don't know. Мы надеемся на лучшее. Все надеются. У меня в Запорожье осталась моя семья, мой муж, мои родные.

Я вчера ехала в Хозе, просто я рыдала. Я еще уехала без вещей. Меня вот так занесли с ребенка. Мы вместе с ней рыдали, говор take anything with me, just my daughter. So we both cried yesterday on the train, and this morning she asked me the question as if she was a grown-up girl. She said, was it the right decision to leave? And I said, I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. Do you feel like a refugee? Do you feel like a refugee? It's a bad question. It's a bad question But yes Right now I'm saving my daughter

And I left my husband I didn't want to leave my husband I'm not leaving the country I'm only going to western Ukraine I'm not leaving the country And'm only going to Western Ukraine I'm not leaving the country and I know I'm going to be returning I don't want that status no, I love my homeland

yes, yes we're in response to her life I'm trying to make the right decision but I don't know, am I making the right decision? My husband tells me I need to take her, we're responsible for her life. I don't know if it's right, not right. I just had my family gathered all of our stuff and said, go, you must go. Yes. Yes.

I'm just sending thoughts out to the cosmos that it's going to be okay. It's going to be okay. Yes, yes. How do you call yourself? My English name is Tim. Tim? Your name is Tim? The last person I met in the station was a little boy named Tim. He was waiting by himself on a pile of suitcases. Tim, how old are you?

Сколько тебе лет? Seven. Seven? Seven. Cool. А мама вернется? Где мама? А мама? Она наверху. She's upstairs.

She went to get us tea. Upstairs, I know. And downstairs. Downstairs, exactly. Good, Tim. You know, upstairs and downstairs. What else do you know in English, Tim? I speak Russian, Ukrainian, and English. I speak Ukrainian and I speak English.

Where are we now? I don't know. I only know my city. Right now I don't know where I am. I know where I came from. I came from Slavyansk. I came from Slavyansk. That's where I came from. I came from Slavyansk. I came from Slavyansk. That's where I came from. My grandmother gave me this coat for the journey. It's like my grandmother. It's very warm. By the way, can have to tell you something in secret.

Let me tell you a secret. I I in the car I tore my tooth out. Do you know how? You tore your tooth out? Yes, with a glove.

This one or this one? I want to tell you a secret that in the car, when I was in the car, I pulled out one of my teeth. Actually, two. This one and this one with my glove. Tim was curious about my English. And he said, How do you translate Kiev? I asked him what he meant. He said, I mean him what he meant.

He said, I mean the city, Kyiv. Not the name, but the city. City? Yes, my dad was in Kyiv when there was no war. That's where my dad was when there was still no war. So Tim has this excellent Lego thing. It looks kind of like a big robot. Tim, you're taking this apart, this thing. I'm redoing it.

I'm redoing it. It looks a little bit like a cat. After the break, an update on the current status of Ukrainian refugees. We'll be right back. an update on the current status of Ukrainian refugees. We'll be right back. In the 10 months since the war began, nearly 8 million Ukrainians have fled the country. The vast majority have been children and women under 40.

The exodus that started in the first weeks of the war was the fastest displacement of people since World War II. But by summer, as the Russian campaign stalled, Ukrainians began to reverse course, returning home to cities and towns where life had resumed. That changed again in the fall, when Russia began a series of relentless attacks on Ukraine's power infrastructure, leaving broad swaths of the country

without electricity, heat, or even water. Now, once again, more Ukrainians are leaving the country than coming into it. The overwhelming majority of Ukrainians have gone to the European Union. Poland has taken in the highest number at 1.5 million. Germany came in second, taking 1 million. But as this hosting approaches the year mark, the strains of supporting such large numbers of people have begun to show. In Germany in recent months, three-quarters of states have reported that they've reached their limit with housing and education. Austria has started to restrict free train travel it was originally providing to all Ukrainians.

And Poland has begun requiring that any Ukrainian staying in the country for more than four months has to pay part of their housing. The International Monetary Fund estimates that the cost to the European Union of supporting Ukrainian refugees could reach $39 billion in the first year of the war. Today's episode was produced by Lindsay Garrison, Sydney Harper, and Caitlin Roberts, with help from Mujzadi. It was edited by Michael Benoit, with help from Anita Botticeau, contains original music by Marian Lozano, and was engineered by Chris Wood and Dan Farrell. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly. That's it for The Daily. I'm Sabrina Tavernisi.

See you tomorrow.