The Daily - Part 3: ‘Italy First’

Episode Date: June 12, 2019

In Italy, hard-right populists have moved from the fringes to become part of the national government. Now, the country is on the front lines of a nationalist resurgence in Europe. To understand why, we spent a day with Susanna Ceccardi, a rising star of the far-right League party. Guest Host: Katrin Bennhold, the Berlin bureau chief for The New York Times, and Clare Toeniskoetter and Lynsea Garrison, producers for “The Daily,” hit the campaign trail with Ms. Ceccardi in Tuscany. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily.Background reading:Ms. Ceccardi is among a group of nationalist politicians seeking to break the European Union from the inside.A victory for the anti-immigrant League party in the European Parliament elections gave Matteo Salvini, the party’s leader and Italy’s interior minister, the strongest claim to the leadership of Europe’s populists.

Okay, so they're the ticket machines. Let's get some tickets. Or an M20. No, two minutes. I don't think we're going to make that one. Are the tickets on the train? Are we buying them on the train? They are somewhere. Why don't we try that? Where, what is the 10.50? Where's the...

We're not going to make it. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Let's not give up. Oh, come on. Everyone just take a deep breath. Says that train's gone. Should we get coffee? Gone from super stressed to super chilled in like a space of 30 seconds.

From the New York Times, I'm Katrin Benhold. This is The Daily. Today, Italy. It's Wednesday, June 12th. So we wanted to go to Italy because it's where these hard-right populists have gone from being just a small regional party to being part of the national government here. And because of that, Italy is now on the front line, really,

of this nationalist resurgence in Europe. And we wanted to understand why. We had heard about this one mayor in Tuscany, a rising star of this far-right party, the League, Susanna Ciaccardi. And we decided to track her down. So we finally make it onto this train from Rome to Florence. Me, Lindsay, Claire, and our photographer, Andrew.

And once we settle down and we've stored our bags away, we pretty much start talking to people immediately. And one thing that's on everybody's mind here... I don't know how to say it in English. The problem of people from other countries coming in to ours. Yeah, migration. Migration. It's a big problem.

So Italy was very much on the front line of this migrant crisis that started building in 2014. You were on the Mediterranean, so you saw it. People arrived on boats, they settled in towns, there were encampments and they spread across the country. Half a million migrants came to Italy's shores

in the space of just a few years. Io vivo nel centro della città, a volte vado a casa e trovo solo loro. Solo loro, sì. Sto diventando una razzista. Sto diventando una razzista. Vivono in case di lusso senza fare niente. Ha detto che tutti i migranti che vengono qui non lavorano, non fanno niente, ma hanno tutto. E questo sembra imparabile? Sì, sì. said that all the immigrant people that come here, they don't work. They don't do anything, but they have everything. And that feels unfair? Yes, yes. So this big influx of migrants actually happened a few years ago by now. But hearing people on the train, it's like it happened yesterday.

Okay. We're like chasing one hour behind this mayor. chasing one hour behind this mayor. We get off the train in Tuscany, and we rent a car, and we drive towards the hometown of Susanna, Kachina, in Tuscany. We're supposed to meet her on the outskirts in this cafe. And we get there a few minutes early,

and it's this kind of typical Italian cafe. It's kind of late afternoon, early evening. People are having their Negronis, you know, Campari's. And then she shows up. And she sort of walks over from her car in a kind of casual, slow way and smiles. Andrea, Susanna. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Thank you very much.

And looks quite glamorous in that kind of Italian way. You know, she's got these sunglasses, these big sunglasses, holding back her hair. So and so. How many months now? Five. She's also five months pregnant. And hovering around her the whole time is her boyfriend,

who also turns out to be her campaign manager, Andrea. Ciao. So we decide to find a quiet place with our translator and get talking. Do you know a name already or have you decided? We are deciding between Marina and Kinsika. Kinsika is a Pisan heroine of the Middle Ages who fought the Saracens.

Kinsika was a woman who was a hero in the medieval times. a Pisan heroine of the beginnings of it all. You grew up in Cascina. Do you remember if politics was part of your upbringing? Did your parents talk about politics at the dinner table? Yes, I come from a historically left-wing family. My grandparents were all left-wing. So Cascina, her hometown, and this entire region, Tuscany, actually has a long history of voting on the left. It's where the Italian Communist Party was founded. Tuscany was called the Red Belt of Italy. And ever since World War II, it had been firmly planted in the left. And during this left-wing era, her town makes a name for itself in furniture making.

It was kind of a rite of passage for newlywed Italians to trek to Cascina to pick out furniture for their new homes in this great exhibition hall. But in the 1980s and 90s, things got tougher. You've got these big multinationals like IKEA suddenly competing with these local artisans. And people start struggling and the industry shrinks. And just when things start to recover a little bit, the financial crisis hits and does the rest. This is when Italy goes into a deep economic crisis. There's a moment when the European Union sort of steps in and demands austerity.

And a sort of technocratic government is put in place in Italy for two years to basically raise taxes, cut spending, and appease financial markets. And the effect on middle and lower class Italians is especially bad. Less money, fewer benefits and high unemployment. And this was a story that was playing out all over Italy. It was a crisis and one that never actually went away. It was a crisis, and one that never actually went away. And the sort of economic disruption and that turmoil that unfolds also begins to shift the politics of the region. But it's a very gradual shift.

Susanna's parents are actually outliers in the 1990s when they start voting for the League, this far-right party. And then Susanna becomes the first person in her family to actually go into politics and become a member of the League Party. By this point, people are kind of growing disillusioned with the left already. And eventually, when Susanna's 29, she decides to run for mayor. This was in 2016, when the migrant boats were still hitting the Italian shores, and when migrants were still arriving in Cascina as well. Do you remember like seeing it on the news, or did you hear people in your village react to it? Now Susanna told us that the migrants would usually arrive by night, under the cover of dark. The mayor would bring them in in the night and so the next morning these residents

would wake up to find that they had a whole set of new neighbors but nobody had warned them, nobody had prepared them and told them anything about it. And so during a town assembly, some of the residents in Cascina spoke up against this mayor and voiced their anger at the situation. They were furious. But he was very unresponsive, she said. He said, if you don't want me anymore, just vote for her next time. And then they did.

So this is how Susanna becomes the first far-right mayor in Tuscany to be elected in more than 70 years. And now she's this regional powerhouse, this rising star. And she's even going for a higher office. She's running for a position in the EU parliament. She said the migration issue helped her get elected in 2016. And she's betting it will help her get elected today. And if it works, it means she's right. So the migration issue, you think, is a very important issue in your campaign and in Italy in general still today.

Yes, I think so. We'll be right back. So we wake up the next morning to hit the campaign trail with Susanna. Good morning. Is it three? Good morning. Oh, it's two. Three.

Is it three? No, three is normal. Five. Oh, five. Being German, I'm used to shaking hands. But as soon as we work that out, it's basically time to go. We must go to Cortona. Andrea, her partner, points at his watch and kind of ushers us off to the car. See you later.

Good luck. Thank you. We're barreling down the highway at like 100 miles an hour. You know, Susanna and Andrea are in the front. They're kind of making calls, sort of rivaling each other. And I kind of get lost looking out of the window. You know, at this incredible landscape, rolling hills and ancient villages and churches

and abbeys, it's hard not to think of that deep history of this part of Italy, the Renaissance, the art, the culture, and that very, very proud past. I asked Susanna, what's changed in Tuscany? I asked Susanna, what's changed in Tuscany? Now we have many, many unemployed, many young unemployed in Italy. Youth unemployment in Italy is over 30%. So we can't give some opportunities to other immigrants because we can give some opportunities to our youth, to our young people. Susanna told me what Italians tell her sometimes,

that young Italians have to go abroad to find work opportunities these days, that unemployment is too high, that parents see their children leave the country to find a job. So when they then see migrants coming here, it's upsetting. And then she spoke about her own daughter as her hand was resting on her stomach.

I think that I have to give to my daughter the right to not immigrate, the right to remain in Italy and build her future here. Yeah. Here we are in Cortona. So we finally arrive at our destination, the first campaign stop of the day. Cortona is this hilltop village, sort of very typically, beautifully, slightly disheveled Tuscan village. This is so pretty. This street probably looked exactly the same 200 years ago.

Lots of small shops, a very sort of sleepy atmosphere. It's quiet, huh? But as soon as we turn a corner to the top of the village... Ciao! Lucia, piacere. Welcome to Cortona. It's beautiful. Thank you. It piacere. Piacere. Welcome to Cortona. It's beautiful. Thank you. It's so beautiful.

Breathtaking. What's that? It's a warrior. It's the name of Alberto da Giussano. It's the name of Alberto da Giussano. Giussano. Giussano. Giussano.

Giussano. The origin of Lombard League. In the north. It was a scene. And posters of Susanna are everywhere. The rising star, there she is. Thumbs up. Ciccardi. Thank you. Let's find our elusive... I just saw her.

Oh, there she is. Oh, she's going to give us peace. Oh, she's going to give us peace. So we see Susanna getting up on this small platform in the middle of the town square. And by now there's quite a few people gathered on that square, and everybody seems to be eagerly awaiting what she has to say. And she's up there. She's talking about the left and how in just a few decades it has destroyed so much, so many values.

Very quickly she starts talking about how Europe is not just the European Union. Europe was born in the fifth century, she says, BC in Greece with in Greece, with democracy, with the Roman Empire, in the era of communes. She talks about how the European Union actually disavows the values underpinning Europe. Vienna was invaded. There was a siege of Vienna. She's talking about European history and how Europe was besieged by Muslim forces. Our fathers died. They fought to defend these European roots and values. And that European ancestors defended Europe against those Muslim invaders. Today, what does Europe want to do? Allow Turkey into Europe, letting people and values that have nothing to do with our roots

and values that have nothing to do with our roots and values. At this point, as I'm listening, Susanna is kind of transformed. I hadn't heard this kind of rhetoric in an election event like this before. And the crowd, they seem to be going for it. As she starts talking about these battles and as she talks about these invasions, applause is building. And then she sort of culminates in talking about Matteo Salvini. The man who sort of can save Italy from all of this. And who can possibly save Europe from all of this.

Europe belongs to the people. It doesn't belong to bureaucrats in Brussels, she says. And Salvini stands up to those bureaucrats. So Matteo Salvini is the leader of the League Party, Susanna's party. And he's the interior minister of the government, which is kind of like the guy in charge of homeland security. And basically he's doing, on the national level,

what Susanna is doing at the local level. She's actually modeled her campaign style after his. She's considered to be one of his protégés. And he's resonating with Italians because he's saying no to migrants. He's somebody who has talked about Italy needing a deep clean. This is a man who closes Italy's ports to migrant boats. It's somebody who's not afraid to create a real confrontation between Italians and migrants. Salvini's a true populist. He's fundamentally opposed to liberal values.

And his name and his face are everywhere. There's a big picture. There he is. He's sort of pointing at you like, you know, it's almost like that American... We want you. Yeah, exactly. And everywhere we looked, there was one main message. Prima Italia. Italy first.

Is the caption of this election poster. Italy first? Italy first. Italy first. Italia first. Trump America. Salvini Italia. Is Salvini Italy's Trump? Yes. Salvini, Italy. Is Salvini Italy's Trump? Yes.

Salvini is our Capitano. Yes, Capitano means captain. In fact, Salvini has been so successful with his messaging that in the time since he became interior minister, he's become incredibly popular. So popular that if enough far-right candidates like Susanna win in these European elections, Salvini is expected to treat it like a kind of referendum by the people

and try to force a new election to make him prime minister. This is not far-fetched. So quite literally, a vote for Susanna is a vote for Matteo Salvini. Ciao! Francesca! I'm sleepy. Ciao, guys. Ciao. Ciao. Ciao, guys.

So after the rally, we said goodbye to all the League members who had been putting on this event, and then we made our way to the next campaign stop. Grazie mille! Grazie! Oh, I wish we could have seen more of this town. Okay, I'm going to cut it. We'll be right back. So we get to the next town,

Rogallo. It's a cute little place, not far from Florence, lined with cafes, churches, a tiny cinema. And this town, unlike Pisa, Siena, Massa, and many of the other towns we've driven through today, doesn't have a far-right presence yet. It's still pretty firmly to the left. But it's this kind of town that Susanna is hoping to conquer.

We're here to go to a debate with other candidates to the EU election. So we walk inside. There's a mock-up of a World War I trench on stage, a kind of prop for clearly a play. But tonight, the stage is literally set for war.

Susanna gets up on stage, walks across and takes her seat. She's actually sitting in the middle, in a row with four other candidates. And then all of them make their introductory remarks. And then the debate begins. And they're covering a lot of ground, including immigration. And that's when Susanna really comes alive. She starts off by acknowledging that on the stage she may be isolated, but that in the Italian population, the League is gaining momentum.

The Italians are with them. The people the left has forgotten about, they think like us, she says. I'm five months pregnant, she said, and when I hear from people in Italy that Italy has a low birth rate, that we've substituted our newborns for people who come from the other side of the world, I get shivers up my spine. There were 2,277 deaths, dead people. And then she really gets going. But you want to import immigrants to repress the population that is decreasing. I didn't interrupt her. So as she's talking, you could see how uneasy everybody on stage was, but also how defensive. The woman on her right is about to blow up.

She's this tall academic who sort of keeps looking up at the ceiling and sort of seems to barely be able to stop herself from rolling her eyes. And on her left is the social democratic candidate, another woman wearing this very stiff smile on her face. Only to then lay into her when her time comes to respond. So one after the next. As these candidates take their turns, they go after Susanna by going after Salvini and the League. These candidates were supposed to discuss issues like climate change, the economy, immigration, but they now all seem to have one single focus. So after Susanna's final answer, she gets up to leave. Her supporters kiss her as she goes, and then we scurry after her.

Everybody was saying the same thing. Everybody's against The Lega was the reference point of the entire debate, it's true. Every single other candidate referred to the Lega and sort of tried to attack and combat the Lega. I couldn't tell if that was because I didn't understand anything, but the only words I could hear was Lega Salvini, Lega Salvini, Lega Salvini. Totally. Immigracional.

Yes, this is what this election is about. This is what this election is about. And in fact... The audience seemed to be divided. There were people walking out when Susanna made particularly controversial statements, and then there were others that applauded. But in some ways, the clues were actually in the reactions

of the other people on stage, the other candidates. They didn't seem to have a narrative that was strong enough to stand on its own. They kept referring back to Salvini and to the League. And that in itself was a victory for Susanna. We'll see you there. And that in itself was a victory for Susanna. Maybe later? Okay, cool. We'll see you there. Do you know which address we're going to?

Not yet. So we go back to the car to the next and last campaign stop of the day. And this next stop is supposed to be a kind of disco dinner type thing for young league supporters. And I'm really looking forward to it because, you know, all day we've been canvassing middle-aged people, older people. And here was a chance now to really check in with the young people. Frustration with youth unemployment has been one of the themes of this journey. And then there was this other story that really stuck with me that I'd heard earlier in the day on one of the stops. We'd met this father of six children who votes on the center right, so not a League supporter. He said he was watching the television news the other night with his daughter, who's 16.

And there was this report about a migrant boat that had sunk and 100 migrants were presumed dead. And then his daughter had given the thumbs up and said, good, that's 100 fewer people coming to Italy. And when she saw the shock in her dad's face, she said, dad, don't look so shocked. Everyone thinks this. And he said, I fear that the young people today really hate the migrants. That story really made me want to talk to more young people.

Can I bring you my bag? So we get there. It's a small parking lot right by the beach. Oh, it smells like the sea. Oh, it really does. There's a small white building restaurant that you can sort of book for events. It's a disco, a nightclub of sorts. We walk in.

It looked kind of like a wedding reception. It's a bunch of tables set for dinner. There were balloons. Wow, so we've just arrived at this event. It's a big room, and it's got Salvini premier. Salvini first. All plastered all over these posters. It's a lot of young people here.

Not what I was expecting actually. It's not exactly Italy's unemployed youth. People look educated and like young professionals. And as we enter, they immediately sort of crowd around Susanna and sort of start talking to her. So we walk around the room and we just kind of ask people, what are you doing here? Why have you come tonight? What's on your mind?

We don't believe in this Europe. There was a lot of talk in slogans of, you know, we want a real Europe. We want a Europe of nations. Meaningful Europe. Where each culture of each nation creates a great culture of the great European Union, where if you speak proudly about your culture you are not called a racist and nationalist but you are called a European who are proud of their roots. Are you proud to be European?

Yes, but not in the European Union. They were talking about their family history. Instead, my family is in the Tuscany heritage since the 12th century. It's noble, noble, noble. Kind of. And a sense that that identity was at risk. And they really wanted to hold on to that identity. But, you know, your relatives, your ancestors wanted to emigrate to find a better life.

They went to the United States or to England. It's like the Nigerians today. They want a better life. It's the same. Okay, but my relatives don't sell drugs, OK? They bring pizza. Come on, please. No, I'm wrong. They seemed to be embracing this anti-migrant message. But there was also something else going on. You know, here were young people who never in their political life

had felt in control of things. That, you know, they'd come of age in a time of austerity. That's all they'd known. That they were now excited by a political option that promised to change everything and that promised to retake control

and that promised to end any kind of outside meddling from Europe. From a Europe that wants to impose these liberal values. A political option that basically promised to restore Italian pride. Now Europe, it's empty. And when you look at it this way, this didn't really seem to be about migrants all that much anymore. The numbers today are minimal anyway.

It's no longer considered a crisis. This felt like a different crisis. A crisis about identity and control and loss. And an easy way of thinking about that is to think about an Italy without migrants. So Susanna, you're all done for the day. You're done. Susanna decides to go home. It's been a long day. So we follow her out, we take her to the car. Tell me, do you think you're going to win?

I think so. I hope so. And if you do win, does that mean Salvini has won? Yeah, I think so, because I'm very close to Salvini, so... Yes. People know what they get. Yeah. Ciao, grazie, grazie a voi.

Ciao. Ciao, grazie. Grazie. Three. Three? In America, three? Three? Bye-bye. Ciao.

Ciao. So we wave goodbye to Susanna and watch her drive off back towards her hometown of Kachina. So, if Susanna wins in the EU elections, and if Salvini sees that as a referendum and forces this vote, and is then elected prime minister, that would be significant. Italy would go from a country with nationalists in government to a country run by nationalists. So we wanted to go somewhere where that's already happening to see what that looks like. That's it for The Daily. I'm Katrin Benhold. See you tomorrow in Poland.