The Daily - Ron DeSantis’s Rise From Unknown to Heir Apparent

Episode Date: March 7, 2023

As the race to be the Republican Party’s presidential candidate gets underway, one figure has emerged as a particularly powerful rival to Donald J. Trump.That person, Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida, has broken away from the pack by turning his state into a laboratory for a post-Trump version of conservatism.Guest: Patricia Mazzei, the Miami bureau chief for The New York Times.Background reading:Mr. DeSantis will soon get a chance to check off his wish list of proposals for Florida, including expanding gun rights.In his new book, “The Courage to Be Free,” Mr. DeSantis offers a template for governing.For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.

From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. As the race for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination gets underway. I'm Nikki Haley, and I'm running for president. A single figure has so far emerged as a true rival to Donald Trump. I love DeSantis. Fantastic job. I love the guy. Trump's my president, and DeSantis will be my next president. Governor Ron DeSantis of Florida.

DeSantis leading Trump by double digits, 14 points. He also hasn't even announced he may... Who, poll show, has broken away from the pack by turning his state into a laboratory for a post-Trump version of conservatism. Has the apprentice now become the master of the conservative party? That's the question. Now, as DeSantis takes his first steps towards announcing a possible candidacy, including a high-profile tour of early voting states and the release of a book about his vision for the country. My colleague, Patty Mazzei,

tells the story of his rapid and unlikely rise to Republican stardom and his potential path to the nomination. It's Tuesday, March 7th. Patty, you have lived in Florida for years now, and you've really had a front row view of Ron DeSantis' career, which is why we want to talk to you about how it is that he has become such a powerful force in the Republican Party and in this emerging 2024 race to become the party's presidential nominee, despite not even being an announced candidate. So where in your mind does that story start? So Ron DeSantis was born in Jacksonville, Florida, and grew up outside of Tampa. His mother was a nurse, his dad installed TV ratings boxes for Nielsen, and he played baseball, which eventually took

him to Yale, where he also played baseball, and later to Harvard Law School. And after graduating from Harvard, he became a lawyer for the U.S. Navy. So that was his sterling resume when he was elected to Congress in 2012 from a district in northeast Florida. And he was a sort of low-profile, classic Tea Party Republican who ran on cutting spending and shrinking the size of the federal government. And when he was in Congress, he was known for being a guy without many friends, sort of aloof, prickly, walking around with headphones on his ears so he didn't have to chat with people. Right. I mean, I remember being a political reporter in this era and not really ever hearing his name. So here you have a kind of Tea Party backbencher at the birth of that movement, not especially memorable or impactful on the party. Right. But even then, he had a bit of a provocative style. President Obama, as you might recall,

had written a bestselling book about his family called Dreams from My Father. Well, DeSantis wrote a sort of retort to it, and he made the case against Obama's policies and titled it Dreams from Our Founding Fathers. Hmm. A book designed to troll the Democratic president. Yes, but he really doesn't arrive on the national scene until 2018 when he decides to run for governor of Florida. And he's not the Republican establishment favorite. governor of Florida. And he's not the Republican establishment favorite. Everyone knows my husband, Ron DeSantis, is endorsed by President Trump, but he's also an amazing dad. Ron loves playing with the kids. So he introduces himself to the state with this ad that becomes instantly memorable, narrated by his wife, that talks about how her husband plays with their children. Build the wall.

And the way he does that in this ad is by building a wall with toy blocks. Then Mr. Trump said, you're fired. I love that part. And reading a bedtime story. That is Donald Trump's art of the deal. People say Ron's all Trump, but he is so much more. Right, I remember this ad. And what's interesting about it is that it's not just an ode to Donald Trump,

who was president at the time, head of the Republican Party. It simultaneously pokes fun at the very idea of having to make an ode to Donald Trump. Right. It acknowledges how much a Republican at the time needed to tether himself to Trump, but also is kind of in on the joke. And he really strongly pursues Trump's explicit endorsement, and he gets it. And that endorsement catapults DeSantis to winning the Republican primary and then to winning the general election by less than one percentage point. And he becomes governor just by the slimmest of margins. And of course, being a Republican governor in the era of Donald Trump means to some degree accepting that he is the big story and the big figure in the party. So as governor, how does DeSantis end up carving out a space in the spotlight of his own and ultimately become a rival to Trump?

It really all starts with the coronavirus pandemic. At first, DeSantis really hesitates to lock down the state. He has this instinct against it, but wants to do what the federal government at the time run by President Trump is urging states to do. Right. And so he does, in April of 2020, issue a stay-at-home order. However, he quickly starts looking for a way to reopen the state. By May, the stay-at-home orders start to expire, and he's telling people they should start going about their normal lives again. We're going to be safe, smart, and we're going to do this step by step. And by the fall, he forces schools to reopen by sort of threatening school funding. Our kids are at the least risk from this virus.

Yet, it is our kids who have borne the harshest burden of the control measures instituted to protect against the virus. But he doesn't just say the schools need to reopen. He goes further. I'm opposed to mandates, period. I don't think they work. He bans mask mandates. People in Florida wear them when you go out. I mean, they don't have to be strung up by a bayonet to do it. He tells businesses that they can't require people to be vaccinated to come to their shops, to their restaurants. You can't burn down the village in order to save it. You can't kneecap your own society

and think you're going to successfully handle a pandemic. And so there's really no alternative left for businesses and institutions, but to reopen and to do so with relatively loose COVID policies. Right, so he's using the power of the governorship to basically make it impossible to do anything other than fully reopen. He's taken all the available systematic precautions and basically made them illegal. Yes. And he's incredibly vocal about it at every step.

The lie of the lockdown was if you just lock down, then you can beat the virus. Why are people having to lock down two or three times then? He juxtaposes himself with blue state governors all the time. I mean, just look at New York. If your positivity is above whatever arbitrary thing, you have to close the school. Really? Comparing himself to New York, California. In the state of Florida, we probably are the most open big state in the country.

He realizes that there is a lot of anger towards those policies and begins to capitalize on that. So some of this stuff I think is petty tyranny. I think it's been a huge mistake. starts becoming the figure that represents anger, chafing, opposition to a lot of the more restrictive COVID policies from 2020. What's interesting about this moment, and I remember it really well, is how it made DeSantis a kind of hero to those who wanted to break free from these pandemic restrictions, even though it was President Trump who by this point was calling for the nation's governors

to end the lockdowns. But Trump, despite his own skepticism of the COVID rules, was in this tricky position because he's still the face of that original federal response to the pandemic, which is lockdowns. So for many, DeSantis becomes a kind of pure version of anti-lockdown leadership. I think that's true, that Trump couldn't really be in the position of both defending his administration's policies and advice and then countering them. But DeSantis could be. And that helps him build this persona of trying to go back

to what he believes is common sense, put our kids in school, let people go back to work. And Patty, when it comes to the pandemic, is it possible to say whether or not this approach he took worked? I think DeSantis gambled that people would hold their government officials accountable more for policies like lockdowns than they would for deaths caused by a global pandemic. than they would for deaths caused by a global pandemic. More than 86,000 Floridians have died from the coronavirus. But in the end, public opinion polling and election results show that people rewarded DeSantis for the policies that he endorsed to reopen the economy.

And what's the lesson that you think DeSantis took from this pandemic? He seemed to have learned that if you came off as a fighter who was always on the offense, picking fights against the overarching liberal elite, that you would be rewarded, that that would pay off, that you would get national attention and popularity from your base, from the right,

and that it could only help you to do more of that rather than less. So where does he start to do more of that? He starts picking new fights unrelated to the pandemic. And the biggest one, the one that probably got the most attention in Florida and the rest of the country, is against one of the state and the country's most beloved companies. Disney. And remind us what he does with Disney. Well, in early 2022, we are taking a deeper dive into a proposed law that is dividing parents here in Florida. A bill starts going through the Florida legislature that restricts the way sexual orientation

and gender identity can be taught in schools. It would ban schools from teaching about sexual orientation or gender identity to younger students between kindergarten and third grade. And opponents nicknamed this legislation, which is formally called parental rights in education, the Don't Say Gay Bill. They start trying to rally public opinion against it, including among businesses.

Dozens of Disney employees walked off the job, an act of protest over Florida's so-called Don't Say Gay Bill. And eventually, word comes out that Disney opposes the bill. Which is a big deal because Disney, as you just indicated, is a major player and employer in Florida. And in Florida politics, Disney has usually gotten what it wants. But in this case, DeSantis criticizes Disney. You know, when we were young, you could watch cartoons without having to worry. Now parents have to sit there and worry about what are they trying to inject in? What type of ideology are they trying to pursue? And that is wrong. Which is sort of unheard of in Republican political circles in this state, especially for the governor

to pick a sort of high profile fight with a company that has just been such a big player. Right. And whose emblem is Mickey Mouse? Who picks a fight with Mickey Mouse? Nobody until now. But the reason you see things like these, these kerfuffles, is because of something that is effectively a woke mind virus that's getting involved into all these institutions. He says that the government, or that his administration anyway, is not going to fall victim to what he describes as a woke ideology. I mean, I'm going to do what's right for the people of Florida.

I don't take marching orders from woke corporations based in California. That's not how I roll. And he even goes as far as to threaten Disney's bottom line. So they're free to take these positions, but they are not free to force us to subsidize their activism. And they've been getting massive subsidies from Florida since before I was born. All because Disney had the temerity to oppose this bill about talking about sexuality in schools. Yeah, and it worked. Surrounded by young students at a Pasco County charter school, Governor Ron DeSantis signed the Parental Rights in Education Bill.

He signed the Parent rights and education bill after it was passed by the state legislature. And then he also signed another bill that did, in fact, target Disney. The company will now be under the control of a state board and has been ordered to pay back $700 million in debt and taxes. Today, the corporate kingdom finally comes to an end. People started praising DeSantis and siding with DeSantis for taking on Disney. And he becomes this culture warrior who can now go around the state and the country saying, we took on the biggest corporation in the state. We can take on any other corporation, any other institution, any other elite that comes our way.

Beware. There's a new sheriff in town and accountability will be the order of the day. And of course, as this Disney fight is playing out and DeSantis is reaping the political dividends from it on the right, something else is happening, which is that Donald Trump's star is rapidly fading, mostly over January 6th and all these damning revelations that have come out of the hearings of the January 6th committee about his decision making, all of which start to cast real doubt on Trump's appeal and really his hold over the Republican Party. Right. The 2022 midterm election becomes a public test for both Trump and DeSantis.

Trump is campaigning for candidates who support his election denialism while dealing with the January 6th investigation. Right. DeSantis is campaigning for his fellow Republicans, but not talking about election denialism. He says the elections in Florida are properly run. He still opens an office of election crimes to investigate potential fraud. But he is really running on these fights that he has taken on in the state and won

and that his political base really likes. Right. Pandemic, Disney. Right. And on election day, he wins in a landslide. Disney. Right. And on election day, he wins in a landslide. He wins by 19 percentage points in a state where recent elections had been decided by maybe one or two percentage points. So a very different situation than four years earlier in 2018, when DeSantis barely squeaked out a victory. This time, he's clearly won over a lot more voters with this elbows-out, aggressive approach. That's right. And meanwhile, Trump has one of the worst days that he has politically because his candidates do horribly elsewhere in the country. Their paths sort of

cross in opposite directions. Trump is starting to look weaker, and DeSantis is starting to look stronger. We'll be right back. So, Patty, as Trump's fortunes are falling, what does DeSantis do with this landslide victory he has in Florida? DeSantis is now emboldened. He has super majorities in both chambers of the state legislature. He's got the support of local officials all the way down to school board members that he has helped get elected. And so he unleashes his playbook and is putting it into overdrive.

He unleashes his playbook and is putting it into overdrive. Florida is where woke goes to die. And just weeks into his second term, the administration has a new target. Just over the past few weeks, we've seen how he has attacked New College, which is a public liberal arts institution in Sarasota. Governor Ron DeSantis recently replaced six of the board's 13 members in an apparent bid to transform this intimate 700-person liberal arts college. He and his allies want to turn into a beacon of conservatism as a fight against liberal academia.

So the mission has been, I think, more into the DEI, CRT, the gender ideology, rather than what a liberal arts education should be. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is defending his administration's decision to block a course on African-American studies from the state's public schools. He has rejected an advanced placement African-American studies course for high schoolers. Who would say that an important part of Black history is queer theory? That is somebody pushing an agenda on our kids. It's our view in Florida that we wanna be standing up

for the little guy against some of these massive media conglomerates. He has convened a round table looking like he's a cable news anchor where he has talked about how the news media has way too much power and it has to be easier to sue them for libel and defamation. And I have only begun to fight. So, time after time, we are seeing him announce, endorse, propose policies that the legislature can pass in the coming weeks and add to his list of fights and victories that then he can campaign on. And all that's just in the past few weeks, you're saying?

It makes it hard to keep up. So in each of these cases, the common theme here of a line of attack is that liberal elites have infiltrated an institution and he is going to be the savior who swoops in and stops them. whether the facts he's claiming are true, he's very compellingly, to those on the right, making the case that he has ferreted out a problem that must be solved. Right. He's again seizing on this anger that people have and maybe used to have sort of privately about how far some institutions have gone in changing. And so he's capital gone in changing. And so

he's capitalizing on that. And of course, everything about this feels Trumpian, but Trump is no longer in office. No, Trump is a resident of Florida, but he spends most of his time, you know, at Mar-a-Lago, where he's dealing with multiple lawsuits and scandals. you know, at Mar-a-Lago, where he's dealing with multiple lawsuits and scandals. And DeSantis is the one getting the attention. Right. And from the best we can tell, upsetting Trump that he is doing so. Well, explain that.

Well, what our colleagues have reported is that Trump sees DeSantis as a very clear threat, as somebody who could potentially challenge him in a Republican primary. And so he has taken to publicly calling him Ron DeSantimonious. And we understand privately calling him Meatball Ron. And DeSantis so far has managed to not take the bait and said that he, you know, doesn't spend his time smearing or taking potshots at other Republicans. But there's no surer sign that Donald Trump feels threatened or rivaled by somebody than when he gives that person a nasty nickname. And if he's given Ron DeSantis multiple nasty nicknames,

then you know he's feeling threatened. Exactly. And DeSantis is doing nothing to dissuade the idea that he might be interested in running for president. In fact, he's making overt gestures that suggest that he is interested in running for president. He has been taking trips to other states, states that are important in presidential elections, Pennsylvania, New York. He has put out a new book. He has welcomed political donors, and tell me if this sounds familiar, to a hotel in Palm Beach to talk about his politics.

So these are all the moves of a person who is testing the waters for a potential national campaign. And these are definitely the moves of someone who once needed Trump, right? Needed him so much that he featured himself reading from Trump's book to introduce himself to Florida, Trump's book to introduce himself to Florida, clearly now asserting his independence from Trump. And so in thinking about the totality of what we've covered here, right, and what DeSantis now represents if and when he enters that primary, what portrait of leadership do you think Ron DeSantis, the Republican presidential candidate, is going to be offering the party? He has positioned himself to campaign as Trump without Trump's baggage. Trumpism that gets things done but doesn't have scandal and drama.

And he's also just a whole lot younger than Trump, at 44. So he's a fighter from the next generation that can fight for the people who are angry about where society is going and knows how to get stuff passed, knows how to use power to do so. But that style of leadership means that you don't hear from opponents. It means that people who don't serve your purpose are often ignored. Or crushed. Or crushed. Or crushed. It definitely sends a chilling effect. You lead by dividing and pitting groups against each other, in many cases by going after people who are vulnerable.

And so there is a real downside that critics point to, to how DeSantis has governed, to the people who are not in his favor, who do not agree with him, having no say in what is happening in the state. But if you are a Republican and you like what DeSantis is doing in Florida, he has created a laboratory for challenging liberalism, for putting into effect right-wing policies. And that is what he appears to be using as a potential national platform to run for president.

But the question is, is that enough? The fact that he doesn't have Trump's personality is what some people think could be DeSantis' weakness. Explain that. He doesn't have Trump's charisma. He has not been tested at the national stage. And he doesn't really relish firing up crowds. And that's how Donald Trump won the Republican primary in 2016. So can Ron DeSantis do that without those skills?

Right, it's one thing to fight Disney or fight COVID restrictions. But if DeSantis runs, he will be up against the man who literally wrote the playbook from which DeSantis has been borrowing. Yeah, DeSantis has been perfecting a version of Trumpism in Florida. But if he runs for president, he's going to actually have to face Trump himself. And that, I think, is a much harder political fight than DeSantis has faced before. Well, Patty, thank you very much. Thank you, Michael. Later today, the Florida legislature will reconvene for its latest session, during which its Republican majorities are expected to pass several high-profile bills

backed by Governor DeSantis that target the political left. One of them is a higher education bill that would ban gender studies majors, prohibit public colleges and universities from spending money on programs espousing diversity, equity, and inclusion, and make it easier to push out tenured faculty members. People look at Florida, they're like, man, the governor's gotten a lot done and we have more proud of it. You ain't seen nothing yet.

This is going to be the most productive legislative session we have had across the board. And I think people are going to be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. Here's what else you need to know today. On Monday, Norfolk Southern, which operates the freight train that derailed in East Palestine, Ohio, said it would install about 200 heat detectors on its rail network in order to detect the kind of overheating wheel bearing that contributed to the accident. The technology will be added wherever the distance between existing detectors is more than 15 miles, including the approach to East Palestine, where there's a 19-mile gap between detectors.

The announcement comes just days before Norfolk Southern's CEO is scheduled to testify before Congress about the company's safety record. is scheduled to testify before Congress about the company's safety record. And the Biden administration is considering whether to carry out a mass vaccination of chickens in an effort to stop an outbreak of avian influenza that has already killed tens of millions of birds and, as a result, driven up the cost of eggs. birds and, as a result, driven up the cost of eggs. The bird flu outbreak, which began last year, is the biggest in U.S. history, affecting more than 58 million birds in 47 states. Today's episode was produced by Asta Chaturvedi, Mary Wilson, and Mooj Zedi,

with help from Carlos Prieto. It was edited by Rachel Quester and Paige Cowett. Fact-checked by Susan Lee. Contains original music by Marian Lozano and Dan Powell, and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wunderli. Special thanks to Diane Wong and Dan Powell. That's it for The Daily.

I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.