The Daily - Scenes from a Russian Draft Office

Episode Date: December 15, 2022

This fall, as Russia’s losses mounted in Ukraine, President Vladimir Putin announced a draft. Almost immediately, hundreds of thousands of men fled the country, though many more stayed.Valerie Hopkins, an international correspondent for The Times, spoke to Russians at a draft office in Moscow to gauge how they felt about going to war and who they blame for the fighting.Guest: Valerie Hopkins, an international correspondent covering the war in Ukraine for The New York Times.Background reading: Across Moscow, there are noticeably fewer men at restaurants, stores and social gatherings. Many have been called up to fight in Ukraine. Others have fled to avoid being drafted.For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.

From The New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernisi, and this is The Daily. As Russia's losses mounted in Ukraine, its president, Vladimir Putin, announced a draft. Almost immediately, several hundred thousand Russian men fled the country. But many more stayed. Today, my colleague Valerie Hopkins talked to Russians caught up in that mass mobilization this fall. I asked her what they thought about going to war and what it might mean for the regime of Vladimir Putin. It's Thursday, December 15th. So Valerie, just to set the table here, you went to Moscow a few days after Vladimir Putin,

president of Russia, announced a draft. And just as a reminder, this was a huge moment, right? Both for Putin, who'd been losing on the battlefield for months, and for many Russians, most of whom weren't in the military and were just living their lives and might suddenly have to go off and fight this war that he started. So what did you see when you got to Moscow? So I've been to Russia several times in the past few months. I first went earlier this summer and was really struck by how normal everything seemed and how parties and normal life was just continuing, even if the prices got a bit more expensive. But now when I went back after mobilization, that was when Moscow started to feel really, really different. I was trying to put my finger on it.

You know, the more time I spent out in pool halls or in restaurants and bars, I realized that disproportionately, there were way more women than men. I found myself constantly trying to count men in all the places I went to, like gyms that were just full of women without male trainers. I also went to a barber shop that had really struggled with its business because both the barbers and the

customers, like half of them were gone. So, you know, on a Friday afternoon, when many posh men are getting ready for the weekend, want to get their beard waxed or, you know, have their hair cut, there were two or three barbers and only one customer. Single women said that they would go on dating apps and find no one, or no one that they were willing to go on dates with. Okay, so there's this real thinning out of men in Moscow, which must have felt pretty weird, right? Yeah. But is that more about the men leaving because they're fleeing the draft or about the men actually going to war? Like,

why were there no men? I mean, Sabrina, I think it's all of the above. Some of it was certainly that men had left. There was a massive exodus in the first week or so. Tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people, you reported on it really well. There were also men who told me about hiding in their apartments and hearing the doorbell ring when the draft officers were coming and just trying to avoid them. Because as long as you don't get the draft notice, you're not required to show up. But as soon as they give it to your hands, you know, you're supposed to come to the draft office. So that's another reason why the streets were so empty. People were just hiding.

Some people went to their granny's house in the village, you know. So many people were just scared because basically as soon as the mobilization was announced, videos started appearing all over this app, Telegram. this app Telegram. Showing not only the totally chaotic process of conscripting these people, but then the fact that there hadn't been enough time to prepare for this, so there was such a shortage of supplies.

You know, there were videos of people sleeping on cardboard. There were videos in which commanders told them to buy female sanitary napkins because they didn't have wound dressings. We haven't verified all of these videos, but whether they were all true or not, this is what Russian men were seeing. And this is what their wives and families were also seeing. Those videos are amazing. I was watching them constantly myself on Telegram, that app where Russians all communicate. constantly myself on Telegram, that app where Russians all communicate. And it was crazy to have this glimpse into just how ill-prepared, you know, Russia was to equip these guys and to send

them into battle with even something basic like ammunition or socks. I think it was a really big shock for so many Russians because the army has been one of the most trusted institutions in the country. You know, so much money goes into it and it's constantly talked about as one of the most modern armies in the world. And I wanted to get a sense, you know, I can't go to any actual military base and talk to men who were training. Right. They would not let an American reporter do that. Absolutely not. But I really wanted to get a sense of what those men who were being conscripted to fight in this war really thought about it. Who do they blame? Is it Putin?

Is it the West? Did they have a strong sense of what they're fighting for? Right. And what does that add up to, you know? And I was also really eager to understand how the draft was maybe changing people's minds about a war that some of them had really chosen to ignore. Okay, so what did you do? Like, where did you start your reporting to try to answer that question? Right. So after I went to all the places where there were no men, I decided to go somewhere where I might see some, which was a draft office. I went to a draft office on the edge of Moscow near a huge, beautiful park. There's a lovely cafe. It's green. There's birch trees everywhere. But it was pretty intimidating because standing at the entrance to the draft office are soldiers, the police.

soldiers, the police, and there are really strict rules now about reporting about the Russian military for all journalists that also apply to me. So I kind of just stayed to the side for a little while. And I noticed that, you know, men in uniform kept going in and out of this very communist looking building, you know, worried wives and mothers were coming back and forth, bringing extra supplies, extra food, blankets, things that they thought their loved ones would need. And I realized that what's happening there is that men who have been picked up across Moscow to register at the office are actually about to be taken away that day to join the military. So after about an hour inside, all the new guys came out. They're standing in the line, and each one of them has two bags with some bread in it,

some little rolls. They said it's like some pate. It's enough to last for two days. The troops are lining up. They don't look particularly professional. Some of them look pretty old. Some are balding. Some have pretty serious glasses.

Some have pretty big bellies. You know, a group of these men came out of the draft office. You hear the draft office. And an Orthodox priest who was praying in Russian started blessing them with holy water. And then after the blessing, the men got onto city buses. They said goodbye to their loved ones. And shortly thereafter, another group of men arrived and started going through all those procedures again. And after observing things at the draft office for a while,

I finally worked up the nerve to try to talk to some of the people who were there. Can I talk to you? On camera? No, just audio. Can I? What exactly do you want to know? worked up the nerve to try to talk to some of the people who were there. I struck up a conversation with a young-looking guy who was in army camouflage, and I was kind of struck by his shoes. He was about to be mobilized, but rather than wearing army boots, he had on some sneakers he said his name was Yevgeny and that he was 24 he was actually from southern Russia a region called Astrakhan,

and had come to work in Moscow pretty recently to earn a better living. He was working as a handyman, living, as a lot of migrants do in Moscow, in a kind of guesthouse, hostel setup. And that is until earlier that very morning when two army officers showed up at the guesthouse and they basically told him that he needed to come to this draft office, which is in a totally different part of the city. Wait, so these draft officers literally just show up at his hostel and order him to go to the draft office?

Just like that? Yes, I was pretty shocked. Crazy. the draft office just like that? Yes, I was pretty shocked. Crazy. Yevgeny was the first person that I met who was literally going about his normal life and woke up expecting for his day to go one way. And actually his life completely drastically changed. He told me he threw together some stuff, including his own first aid kit. Wow. And then he came to the draft office. And then, you know, he was basically told that he would be deployed that day.

So he didn't have time to go back to his hostel to collect any of his belongings. And he was actually holding this green trash bag that he said had some clothes in it. And some of the army issued fatigues that he had just been given. So he literally left his hostel that afternoon and he was going off to war? Yeah, well, or at least, you know, some kind of training. And Valerie, what about his family? Like, did he have a chance to call people at home back in Oshkosh to tell them what was happening to him?

Like, that he was being drafted, like, right then that day? He told me that everybody who needed to know did know, but that he had chosen to keep it from his mom. He told me that she had been really sick and he didn't want to upset her or put any stress on her, so he just kept it from her. So he's going off to war, and his mom doesn't even know about it. Yeah.

So, Valerie, as you're talking to Yevgeny, how is he navigating all of this? I mean, his life has just been completely turned upside down. How is he understanding what's happening to him? Well, it doesn't seem like he really had a plan. You know, I asked him what he thought about the men just showing up at his hostel and taking him. He said, it's not really for me to question.

If the motherland needs help, then I must help. Wow. And then he effectively said, what else am I supposed to do? You have a choice to get a fine or go to jail or go to the front line. And, you know, he had this attitude that sooner go to jail or go to the front line. And, you know, he had this attitude that sooner or later they're going to find me anyway. So it sounds like Yevgeny doesn't actually see himself as having any kind of choice. Like it's jail or war.

Yes. A lot of Russians actually don't know the rules. And under Russian law, you actually can't imprison someone for not going to war. But pretty much everyone thinks that they will. So people like Yevgeny go along with it, thinking that they don't really have another choice. But does he blame anyone, Putin or the government in any way for the fact that he's standing there about to go to war? for the fact that he's standing there about to go to war? I really wanted to ask him that question, and, you know, we talked for a while, and finally I did.

I said, you know, whose fault is it? Is it President Putin? Is it the West? And Yevgeny basically said, I don't really know. I think that the top leaders see the political situation better than I do. Basically, I'm too small and unimportant to have a view on politics. I'm too small and insignificant to even hazard a view on something that's so big and important, even though I'm the one going to my death,

potentially. He said, the most important thing is to just stay alive. So how did you leave, Yevgeny? What happened in the end? Well, as we were standing around waiting for the buses to leave, Yevgeny started asking me questions. He wanted to know what Ukrainians themselves thought of the war.

I really struggled with what to tell him. I told him I had spent four months there actually during the war and I didn't describe the levels of sheer hatred that I've seen from people I've interviewed. But I told him that the majority of Ukrainians really don't want Russia on their territory. And then he told me that he feels much more sorry for civilians who are caught in the battle in Ukraine. He said, there are airstrikes, there are mines. It's so much worse for them.

It was a remarkable thing to say, you know, just as he's going off to be part of an army that's going to do that. Yeah. Potentially one of the ones killing them. Yeah. Then, just as we were about to say goodbye, we kind of remarked on the oddity of this moment that the last person that he talks to before he goes off to war is actually from the country that his president says they're fighting against.

America. Yeah. And he told me, actually, that he would really like to visit America one day. Yeah. Yeah. I asked him if he had actually traveled anywhere outside of Russia. And he said no. He had never actually left Russia.

And now his first trip abroad was going to be Ukraine and he was going as a soldier. We'll be right back. It's Valerie. It's 5.15. And another bus just showed up to the Vayinkamat, the draft center. I don't know how many hours a day they do this, but there's so many shifts. So Valerie, before the break, you told me about Evgeny. He's this handyman from southern Russia who was essentially forced to go fight in this war. Who else do you meet at the draft office? Well, you know, I really wanted to talk to some of the wives and women that are being left behind. So at this point, it's late afternoon and I'd seen a few of the family members, you know, fretting over their men who were being set off, you know, making sure they have all the supplies all packed up, some of them crying.

And it's pretty strange to intrude on a moment like this when you're a journalist, and you know that this might be the last time these people see their loved ones. But I really wanted to understand what their position is as well. So I met this young woman named Katia. She's 28. She was like so crazy in love with her husband, Vlad. He's a driver and she's a lawyer for a state agency. They've been together for five years, married for a year and a half. And what she told me was that Vlad had received a draft notice a few days before.

And she was pretty shocked because when the war started, she and Vlad didn't pay much attention, actually. They kind of expected, like many Russians, the war would be quick and painless. And actually, even after mobilization was announced in mid-September, they went on a mini vacation to a cute tourist town in Western Russia. Really? They went on vacation after the mobilization? Yes. That suggests just a level of like, this will not affect me. Yeah. You know, I think Katya, like many Russians, kind of believed in the social contract that if you don't get involved in public life or in politics, like it won't get involved with you. And I think that, you know, there was also a certain degree of denial because she told me that even after he got his draft notice three days before,

they didn't really think he would get deployed. Really? Yeah. Vlad had been sick. She said he had an issue with his kidneys, and he had blood in his urine. So part of this process at the draft office is actually a medical test. And she expected that they would find this in the medical test and he'd get released from duty. But earlier that day, the draft office had simply concluded he was healthy enough to serve.

If they found, you know, blood in the urine, they concluded that this wasn't something that would prevent him from fighting. Wow. So how is she dealing with this? I just kept asking her, okay, did you consider not coming? Did you consider fleeing? fleeing. I had done interviews with tens of people that had fled immediately after getting a draft summons. And she said that she hadn't because Vlad insisted that he wasn't a coward.

You know, if he is told to do this, he can't run away from a sense of duty, you know, and that's a message that's really hammered home in a lot of propaganda in Russia. But what did she think about the war? She was actually quite torn about it. She spoke in the way a lot of people in Russia do. People who are not particularly political, but all around them is misinformation and propaganda from the state. And there was a bit of this attitude that we saw from Yevgeny that, who am I? I'm a small person.

I'm not the one who's entitled to have a definitive opinion. But she did tell me that she was confused and didn't really know what the war was for and why they were fighting. Right. Like for Russians, and I've noticed this a lot in my own reporting, there's so much information coming at them and so much wrong information coming at them, intentionally wrong, that at some point after so much deluge, they just kind of switch off. Well, I think it wears you down. It makes you question all sources of information that you hear. But also some of the propaganda now is so scary that many of them can't help but believe it. But the longer I spoke to Katya, she started to open up a little bit more.

She started speaking in a quiet voice and, you know, I think she started to be really honest and criticize the war effort a little bit. She said that the conscription was taking people kind of indiscriminately. You know, she mentioned men with small children who were not supposed to be called up under the rules. She also mentioned an acquaintance of hers from her hometown who was a cook, and he was actually drafted as an infantryman. She said he was so young and didn't know anything about fighting. She actually said, what will he do, fight them off with potatoes? In this really exasperated and shocked voice.

That seems pretty risky for her to say these things to you. I mean, she's literally standing outside a draft office. Yes, but the love of her life is being taken away, and she's sort of alternately seething, devastated, angry. You know, many people have a certain degree of trust in the government, but when they see a process like this go poorly, it erodes that. Her trust is starting to be eroded because of this personal experience, you know, and it's not just Vlad. She told me that it seems like they're drafting absolutely everyone.

The official line given by the defense ministry was that about 300,000 men would be called up. But she said, I think it's so much more. I think it's like 300,000 from each region. Wow. So she's essentially saying the unspoken thing out loud, that it really looks like a lot more men are being swept up in this draft than the government is admitting. Yes. And eventually she started to speak in this really pained way. Like she didn't want anyone to hear her. At a certain point, she started crying. She said that people like her husband are like toys of the big guys at the top, just cannon fodder.

So how far is she willing to take that conclusion? Like, who does she blame? Does she blame Putin? Does it become a political demand for her? As angry as she was, she was careful not to blame Putin. You know, she made a bit of an excuse even for the government, saying at least not during our discussion, that this would translate to any political action. How did you end it with her? I didn't really know what to say, but, you know, at a certain point, I asked her if she had any plans for the evening. How was she going to spend this first night alone?

She said, cry. For now. Tomorrow I'll get ready and go to work. And that's it. That's all. But then she said tomorrow she would pull herself together and go back to work.

So Valerie, hearing about your reporting this day in the life of a draft office, it feels like what you found was something really quite subtle, but also very representative of where most Russians are right now. And that is, I don't love this thing, but there was probably some real reason for it to happen. The higher-ups decided, therefore it must be. And it's not my place to question why, even though I'll be the one doing the dying. Yeah, that sounds about right, Sabrina. But also, don't forget that there are actually a lot of Russians, a very significant percentage, who really support the war enthusiastically. And that includes the draft. You know, I saw some of them at the draft office. There was a woman who came with her two children in these, you know, Soviet nostalgic military hats

with little red stars on them. She was saying goodbye to a friend of hers who'd been drafted and really angry at the West for fomenting this in her eyes, you know. So she was supportive of the war. Yes, very enthusiastically. But there were a lot of people who didn't want the draft and weren't speaking out loudly against it. Okay, so for those people who maybe didn't support the draft, but also weren't speaking out, and maybe were kind of even going along with things, like Katya, for them it's sort of compliance by default, which of course, very different from a fervent belief in the war.

Right. And I think that the reason why this war will continue to grind on is this continuing compliance, whether it's out of support or fear or a combination. So, Valerie, where does that leave us in terms of political pressure on putin i mean what should i understand from evgeny and from katya about what this means for putin what this draft means for him you know it shows that ultimately the political backlash that a lot of people predicted if and when this draft would be announced hasn't materialized, at least not yet. One reason for that is absolutely the very, very intense repression and refusal to allow any form of protest, even an individual person standing with a blank piece of paper in a public square. But another reason is that people in the West got Russia wrong in assuming that there would be more grassroots

opposition, in assuming that once this war started to affect Russians personally much more, we would start to see opposition that might lead to political change. Right. A lot of people, a lot of really intelligent people thought it would mean the end for Putin when the war came to Moscow and the coffins started coming home all across Russia. But so far, it hasn't. And the draft did end in late October. And a big reason for that, many analysts think, is that people were so angry over it. Not only the fact that it happened, but just how completely botched and disorganized it

was. And President Putin recently said that there wouldn't be another wave of mobilization. But most people don't really believe that. People expect another round might start early next year after the Christmas and New Year's holidays, or, you know, a more stealthy, not announced draft might be in the works. And while it's tempting to believe that another round would do significant damage to Putin, as we saw in the draft office, it's just not that simple. So Valerie, how did your day end in the draft office? Well, the buses started to load up. People were getting ready to leave, putting their backpacks and sleeping bags on the bus and saying their final farewell to their relatives.

Then it was time for Katya's husband to board the bus. I saw Yevgeny saying goodbye as well. And then they were off to the training grounds. And I saw the mothers and wives and children had tears in their eyes. Let's go anyway. The buses went by with a police escort, and everybody clapped and waved, and a woman screamed, Come back.

She said, We're waiting for you. Valerie, thank you. Thank you, Sabrina. We'll be right back. Here's what else you should know today. On Wednesday, the Federal Reserve raised interest rates by half a percentage point, a smaller hike than previous increases, because there are some signs that inflation is easing. The new benchmark

interest rate, now between 4.25 and 4.5 percent, is its highest in 15 years, and Fed officials expect it to rise to over 5 percent by the end of next year. We're taking forceful steps to moderate demand so that it comes into better alignment with supply. Our overarching focus is using our tools to bring inflation back down to our 2% goal and to keep longer-term inflation expectations well anchored. In announcing the new rates, Fed Chairman Jerome Powell said recent data show a reduction in inflation, but that it will take much more evidence to confidently say that inflation is under control. and inflation is under control.

Today's episode was produced by Will Reed, Alex Stern, and Diana Nguyen, with help from Carlos Prieto. It was edited by M.J. Davis-Lynn, with help from Michael Benoit. Contains original music by Marian Lozano and Dan Powell. It was translated by Anastasia Varashtsova, and was engineered by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Lansford of Wonderly. That's it for The Daily. I'm Sabrina Tavernisi. See you tomorrow.