The Daily - The Abortion Wars, Part 2: The Illinois Option

Episode Date: April 18, 2019

Four states have passed laws this year that effectively ban abortion after six weeks of pregnancy, and others, including Missouri, are expected to follow suit. Some Missourians are crossing the state line to Illinois, where abortion access is protected. We spent a day at a clinic in Illinois with three women who were getting abortions. Guests: Sabrina Tavernise, a national correspondent for The New York Times, and Lynsea Garrison, a producer for “The Daily.” For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily.This episode includes disturbing language.Background coverage:Bans on abortion in the very early weeks of pregnancy — after a fetal heartbeat is detected — used to be rare. But in the past three months, four states have passed so-called heartbeat bills, and 11 others are considering them. In 1973, the Supreme Court ruled — with little controversy — that women had a constitutional right to abortion. How did the decision give way to today’s deep political divide? Listen to a series from “The Daily” on Roe v. Wade.

What did you do in the clinic? What I did was counsel people who called, and then we would talk to these people on the phone. And we had explained all that to them, that here was a state of Missouri where you could not get an abortion, but here was a state of New York where you could go by an airplane. You can go to a good clinic there with obstetricians, well-trained obstetricians. You can go there in the morning and you can come back at night, just that kind of thing. People just didn't know about that at all. Vivian, what were some of the stories that they told you? You were talking to them a lot.

My mother will kill me. And oh, I can't go down to that line of people because my sister's down there protesting against abortion, you know. And believe me, this girl who said, oh, I couldn't do that, is the girl who next week will be walking walking in that line. You just can't imagine how it used to be. Until it hits you, it's always, you know, oh, you shouldn't do that. But when it hits your family, all of a sudden you wake up and you realize that sometimes there are no other answers. And you realize that sometimes there are no other answers. That's not going to solve your problems. How about it, guys? Think about that.

You're here to kill somebody. Guys. From The New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernisi. This is The Daily. Come on, guys. Thou shall not kill. You know that. Today, the second half of our story on abortion in America told through two states, Missouri, where it's going away, and Illinois, where it's increasingly protected. You're good people, but you're doing a terrible thing.

Come on, guys, don't do this. In the first few months of 2019, the fight over abortion has taken a new turn. The Supreme Court has changed. And now, red states that have long wanted to ban abortion are seeing an opening. One in their favor. How about it, guys? It's not too late as long as your baby's heart's beating. Happy Father's Day, man, because you'll always be his daddy.

We're here to see Dr. King. I'm Lindsay Garrison. Lindsay Garrison is ready to talk. Go in the door all the way to the top stairs. Once you reach the top stairs, push the button on the wall. Top stairs. Thanks. Thank you so much. In the last few months alone, four states have passed bans on abortion after six weeks.

That's before most women even know they're pregnant. Thirteen states are following suit. Missouri is one of them. She's saying, grab a backpack, that man in a backpack who is like totally flipping her off. Give those babies up for adoption. So Missourians are turning to Illinois because their own state has made it too hard. Daily producer Lindsay Garrison and I

went to one abortion clinic right across the state line in Illinois. It's called Hope Clinic for Women. And we spent the day there with three different patients who were getting abortions. Hi, good morning. How are you? It's Thursday, April 18th. Hope Clinic for Women, how. How are you? It's Thursday, April 18th.

What kind of fun women have when they love you? Chapter 3. The Patients. We get to the clinic in the morning. I'm sorry? It's busy. Um, did you take a pregnancy test at home or was it after? Alright, I got you in here for the first time. Then we'll have you back to make sure you're right at eight, okay? It's really busy. It's very right at eight okay it's really busy it's very

busy yeah it's very busy okay that will be at 8 a.m so we need for you to shower wear comfortable clothing eat before you get here once you get here you cannot consume anything other than water if you want sedation you must have a driver with you. Either way there has to be a car here so you cannot be dropped off and picked up. We have protesters that line our sidewalks. They are not allowed on our property and then expect to be here for six to eight hours on the day of your appointment. Alright do you have any questions? Alright so then we will see you on Friday the 31st at 8 a.m.

You're welcome. Bye. How many of those do you think are from women from Missouri? Quite a bit are from Missouri. I would say about, just guessing, maybe like 60 to 70 percent are Missouri residents. I'd agree. Wow. Just guessing. Maybe like 60 to 70% are Missouri residents. It's always been majority Missouri in my mind, ever since I've been here. We walk to the back to see Dr. King, the head doctor. Hi guys. Hi.

This is our counseling station. Hello. Hello. Who has Tiffany's chart? I do. Okay. And then hey. Hello, y'all. Who has Tiffany's chart? I do. Okay. Hannah, though. And then we meet a patient named Tiffany. Is my picture going to be in a paper?

No. Okay, good. That's how I'll do a photo. Okay, great. The counselor asks her if she's sure. I'm just 100% confident this is the right decision for me. I'm glad. I'm glad. I'm glad.

So this next part is just going over the consent forms. I'm going to play a recording. I'm just going to read through them with you. And if you could just go through an initial by everything and then print, sign, and date when you're done. If you have any questions, let me know. Okay. Abortion risks, benefits, and alternatives. abortion risks benefits and alternatives women who are pregnant can decide to continue or end the pregnancy and depending on the outcome of the pregnancy can then decide to parent or place a

child for adoption you need to consider your choices carefully to be able to make the best decision for yourself i understand research has shown the majority of women experience feelings of relief and have no major regret after an abortion. However, some women may and do experience guilt, sadness, depression, and or regret following an abortion, just as they may experience these reactions after giving birth. I understand these feelings can range from violence to fear. Do you have any questions about any of that information? No, I would like to smoke a cigarette before. You can do that.

When you leave my office, you can go smoke a cigarette. Just let the front desk know so they're not looking for you. Okay, I'm good. Okay. So we follow Tiffany outside to the lobby. I'm going to go smoke a cigarette real quick, and then I'll let you know when I come back up. Okay.

Then downstairs. I can't wait for this to be over. To a little bench outside the front doors of the clinic. It was quiet there. It's not too late to say this, baby. This isn't the answer. Almost immediately we're spotted by a protester. You're not watching.

This isn't it. This is first-degree murder. First-degree murder of a baby. No, you don't know me and you have no idea what's going on in there. You think you do and I respect that, but it's not what you think. I have no fucking choice. So if you could get out of my face. Yes, you do. You can put it up for adoption. It is killing. Anytime you kill a baby. Well you're killing my spirit right now. It's killing a baby.

What do you think about that? I think she can fuck off. And back. How are you feeling? Um, that's it. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine.

I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine.

I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm back. How are you feeling? Um, definitely ready. Tomorrow, after today, it's going to be over, you know, and I can go back to my life and focus on my 14-year-old daughter and my career

and... What's your job today? Oh, that's me, ladies. I gotta go. She's called pretty quickly. You too. You too, Tiffany. We watch her walk away, her blanket draped across her shoulders. When Tiffany found out she was pregnant,

her first thought was, maybe she could have a son. She already has a 14-year-old daughter. But she'd been addicted to opioids until recently. And she knew a pregnancy was just too much for her life right now. She had a hard time coming up with the money for the abortion, which came to around $660. She considered selling her most valuable possession on eBay, her Eagles football gear.

But then she got a grant. After Tiffany left, we sat in the waiting room and looked at all the women. Should I read some of these? Yeah, I feel like we should pick a few. And then we spotted a guest book with entries from patients who'd passed through. It's okay, baby, don't be sad.

You can try again, just not right now. Always remember love. Ooh. I wanted to have a baby so bad. Finally get pregnant. And I'm high risk for a miscarriage. Heavy bleeding, cramping, blood clots. So I'm getting an abortion. It's too much. I'm sad. This one.

No one knows your situation and what you have been through. Make the best decision for yourself. and what you have been through. Make the best decision for yourself. No one has walked a mile in your shoes. Don't let anyone judge you because they aren't perfect themselves. Hold your head up high. Make the best decision for yourself. Much love.

Tiffany. I was wondering if that was her. I bet it was. We'll be right back. Oh, what's up? Oh, do you know her name? Because I have a couple people on here. Okay.

She might be on there. Okay. She was just saying there's a patient that is fine talking to you guys. Oh, cool. So should we go out and... Do you want to go see that? Yeah. And then we meet Sam. She's here with her mom. Oh, this is Sam. Yeah. Great. Well, this is Sam. Hi, Sam. She's small

in a baggy sweatshirt with crop blue hair. How long have you been blue? Well, it changes quite often, but I think this time it's probably been blue for a couple of weeks, probably four or five weeks. Okay. We walk with her down the hall to another small room, and we check the levels on our microphone. What did you have for breakfast this morning? For breakfast this morning, I had apple jacks and a granola bar. And then we ask her about getting pregnant and having to tell her mom that her period was late.

I was like, hey, it hasn't come yet. And she was like, all right, well, just keep an eye out. Let me know as soon as you get it. You know, if not, another week passed and she just woke me up one morning and she was like, here, I got you this, you know, I got you this pregnancy test. Best time to do it is right when you wake up.

So here, just do it right now. And I was like, okay, and I did it. And you know, within 30 seconds, I came up positive and I just cried and she hugged me and she was like, it's okay. We'll take care of this. So yeah, I was very lucky to have her around for it. Hi, Sam. I'm Dr. Baum. It's nice to meet you. You too. And then the doctor and Sam's mom come in. And otherwise, Sam, it looks like you are really healthy and boring, correct? Yeah.

That is a good thing. No problems. It is good to be boring at the doctor's office. All right. Excellent. I'm doing a leave. Is it okay if I'm here? Oh, yeah. You can be here. It's fine. Okay. Excellent. So the first thing I'm going to give you is a copy of the consent form that you have already signed. Now, I am going to sign a copy. So then you are going to get to keep a copy that has my name and signature for your own records, okay?

Okay. Alright, water. So let me take your hand. This is the Mifepristone. So this one you're going to swallow for me, okay? She needs to take that too. Okay. And then we'll give you your antibiotics.

All right, that's the Mifepristone. This is your antibiotic pill, okay? That's just to prevent infection. Swallow that one down. Get it? Okay. That's just to prevent infection. Swallow that one down. Get it? Okay, that's it. All right, I'll do one more. Yeah, that's fine.

So we're done with that. So you are done. So you have a follow-up with us? And just like that, it was over. She could go home. I have a special one here. And like I was telling her, hey, we all make mistakes. And I told her not to let anyone judge her, make her own decisions.

And whatever her decision was that she decided, I would be behind her 100% because I love her and she's my daughter. And whatever is best for her, I don't think that this is something that people should do constantly. But I thank God that they made it available, that we could do this, and that this worked for her. And it was kind of hard walking up with people outside saying all the horrible things. What did that feel like? It was horrible. Trust me, I had to dig real deep because there was that part of me that I'm her mother. Don't you dare say that about my daughter. Don't you dare say that when I went back outside. Come on, Grandma, you can change your mind.

You're killing your grandbaby right now. No, I'm not. Who are you to stand out there and to judge my daughter or me or anybody else here? Who are they? And I told her, I warned her. I said, listen, you go down there, just ignore it. Put it out of your mind. Don't listen to them.

So, I mean, everybody's entitled to their opinion, but that's how I feel. Has this brought you guys even closer together? We struggle, believe it or not. We actually struggle in our relationship. We really do. But I think she knows that I think she always knows her mother will always be there no matter what it is and I love her and I mean I don't know my mother loved me with all her heart but I don't know if she could have been down here with me or not but I couldn't be that way for her I'll be there through everything thick thin hell freezes over whenever she's my kid

and I'll be there for her I think I think this has probably brought us a little closer now I love the one out there her boyfriend I'm not too happy with him, but, you know, I can deal with him too. Thanks, ladies. Y'all have a great day. Bye. Nice to meet you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Good luck.

Sam told us she'd had mental health issues, and her boyfriend, who was 18, had had problems too. and her boyfriend, who was 18, had had problems too. Before she came to Hope Clinic, she'd gone somewhere else for a free consultation. It was something called a crisis pregnancy center. They're run by anti-abortion activists. And they told her that sometimes people just need a baby to get better themselves, to straighten out their lives. And Sam thought that was crazy.

We'll take a look and see if we've got everything set up in here. So then, Dr. King shows us the room where the surgical abortions take place. Sterilizing our instruments. Looks like Danielle's in here setting up things. Yeah, checking things, routine things, like checking and making sure there's oxygen in the oxygen tank. Hey, Pat, can you come in? That's when Nurse Pat walks in. Pat, you're very good at verbal anesthesia. Yes, I am. Can I ask you the types of things you say? If they're really young we do songs little bunny foo-foo up the teapot do you hold their hand no i hold their hands i hold their bodies i tuck them in my arm and have them listen to my heart

and then tell them i'm your grandma and they're like okay you know hi my name's Pat, and I'm here for you. I can hold your hand. I can hold you. I can do this. Or I can just take you like this. And then Pat reaches out and wraps Lindsay in her arms for a demo. Just, you're doing great. You're doing awesome. I'm so proud of you. Okay. And then when I'm done, I go, I just kiss him.

That felt really good. Oh. We have a patient, Sabrina, who is in... Who's Sabrina? And then we meet another patient, Sabrina. That's not her real name. She should be out in the next, like, five minutes or so. Perfect. She's just had her abortion, and she's resting in a chair in her hospital gown and surgical cap.

She's eating a little bag of crackers. Are you helping your son? I'm hungry. Her appetite has been huge, so she ate several meals in preparation before the procedure. I had Jack in the Box. I had one little kid, two dollar cheeseburger meals with Jack in the Box. And then my mama had made some tuna. I went and I got some of that too. I ate all that before I came. When she found out she was pregnant, she knew immediately what she didn't want. I don't want no more kids right now. Do you have kids?

I got one son, and I loved him to death before. But I don't want more kids. I just want the right time. So I feel like this was best. I feel like it should be okay if that's what you decide to do. Because when it all boils down, guess who's going to be stuck? You. Mm-hmm. The mother. It's always the mother. The father will get an option. So I just, I didn't want to do that this time.

Mm-mm. So I decided to do this. It's too much. Like, when I first had my son, I was not mentally prepared for that. Like, I literally almost had a mental breakdown. My mom had to give my son a couple weeks for me because it was just too much. People don't think about that. They wonder why there's so many kids on the street or so much bad stuff happening

because people have all these kids that they never want to take care of or raise in the first place. This is about actually raising a person to be a decent person in this cruel world. That's hard. Especially a little boy, it's just too hard. So I decided to do this. It's my choice. I am starving. I cannot wait to get up out of here to eat. What's his name? Shemine. He got a smart mouth. But he's just so smart.

Like, I thank God for him every day. But no, I don't think I need no more Shemines. That's enough. That's all that's wrong with me right now. I can't do this, this, this, this. Sabrina's a single mom. Her son's father was never really in the picture. She works in a warehouse, shipping goods for online orders.

She told us she wanted to get out of her town, get a better job. But she knew that having another kid would make that hard. Bye. Thank you. Bye-bye. All right. Have a good one. Thank you. Bye-bye. It's been 46 years since Roe v. Wade made abortion legal in the United States.

I was like, you're 12 years old. It's incredibly common. What are you going to do with a kid? I found out I was pregnant. One in every four women gets one. I was terrified because I didn't want to have a child with this man. We decided that the best thing was not to have a baby right now. But even if you get one, that doesn't exactly mean you like it. I went back and forth so much about it, even telling anyone.

Or you will support people who are fighting for it. No. It's complicated. I would never let them know I got an abortion. As we drove around the state, that's what we heard over and over again. People's views, they're not consistent. Welcome back to McDonald's. I'll be with you in just one moment.

They're contradictory. Can we answer your question? Yeah. We're reporters and we're doing a story about abortion. Okay. Do you think people are more accepting of it or less accepting of it? I personally think it's murder, but it's your decision.

You do the rest of your day, guys. Thank you. Oh, thanks so much. So I go up there? Yes, ma'am. Okay. I mean, it is murder. It's a baby.

It's a heartbeat. So, I mean, I'll be honest with you. A long time ago, I had had an abortion, but I was going through a lot of hard, hard things. Just because a woman gets an abortion doesn't mean she's going to vote for it. And it doesn't mean her family will either. Like, should it be made illegal? Like, do you think it should be?

I feel like it should be. I mean, it's killing somebody. I mean, it's killing your baby. Yeah. Even though it helped you at a certain point in your life? Yeah, because I don't like the way I feel now. Afterwards, yeah. I mean, did it really help anything?

And now I have to live with that for the rest of my life. But he's like, you know, I'm pro-life, but I'm really glad that you made the choice that you did and that you had a choice. And I was like, wait, what? What did you just say? It kind of hit me like a brick wall because I'm like, wait, what did you just say? And I feel like that's the normal experience, is you have no idea. I just don't think people know until it's themselves.

Then it's deeply personal. This is why it's so hard politically, and why abortion has remained vulnerable. This is the kind of person that makes me more furious than anyone to say it's okay for me, but it's not okay for you. I asked Vivian Zwick about the contradictions. She said it's been that way ever since she started working on abortion rights back in the 60s. I find that absolutely to be the most awful attitude. It's just an awful attitude to say, it's okay for me, but I'm not going to vote for you to have it. I can't understand it, but that's the way it is.

What do you think is going to happen, Vivian? I'm afraid to say what I think is going to happen, Vivian? I'm afraid to say what I think is going to happen. I was really, I really thought we had it made. I think eventually we will lose abortion. I really do. Is it surprising to you? No. It is not surprising to me.

I find, well, it would make me feel very much like I'd wasted an awful lot of time. What was I doing? I thought I was doing good. A growing number of states are beginning to pass laws that would immediately ban abortion if Roe v. Wade is overturned. Kentucky could become the first US state without an abortion clinic in our modern era. In Georgia, the governor is poised to sign one of the most restrictive anti-abortion laws. The Ohio governor signing today what critics condemn as the most restrictive abortion law in the country. And in Mississippi, the governor signs a bill banning most abortions as

soon as the baby's heartbeat is detected. The Missouri House is passing along a bill that would ban almost all abortions in the state should the U.S. Supreme Court overturn Roe v. Wade. There are no exceptions for a woman that becomes pregnant because of rape or incest. Vivian thought that the future was looking more and more like the past. thought that the future was looking more and more like the past. And she's kind of right. States are passing laws that, until now, had never gotten

traction. They were considered legal dead ends. They would end up in court where they would die. But with the new Supreme Court, that math has changed. And maybe one of those cases would mean the death of Roe v. Wade.

And if it's overturned, and abortion is no longer nationally protected, the map looks something like this. In a third of the country, it's legal. In a third of the country, it's not. And the rest is up for grabs. Missouri would be a state without abortion. And in some ways,

when you drive across Missouri today, that already feels true. Should we go? Yeah, let's go. I'm sorry. here's what else you need to know today there's uh obviously been a lot of hard work by a lot of people throughout the denver area. It did create a significant amount of concern regarding what we believe is a credible threat. On Wednesday, just days before the 20th anniversary of the Columbine shooting, a massive police hunt for a woman who officials say was on a, quote,

pilgrimage to Columbine, shut down hundreds of schools in the Denver area, affecting half a million students. The FBI recently just confirmed that they have found Ms. Pais deceased from... The search ended when the woman, 18-year-old Sol Pais, was found dead from what appeared to be a self-inflicted gunshot wound. She had allegedly made threats online and had traveled from her home in Miami to Denver,

where she then purchased a pump-action shotgun with ammunition. We've had plenty of staff that have been boots on the ground searching different areas. Everything that I've heard in briefings does not indicate that she had any assistance or friends in the area. Just a fascination with the Columbine area and the horrendous crime that went on there 20 years ago. That's it for The Daily. I'm Sabrina Tavernisi. Tomorrow, my colleague Mike Schmidt will be hosting. I don't know if you ever listen to podcasts.

To what? Podcasts. Podcasts. Podcasts. Podcasts. Do we have it here? Well, you can hear it on a... Do you use a computer? No. We'll find someone who has a computer and you can listen to it on a computer. Can you help?

Don't even worry about it. We'll make sure you hear it. My family tells me I'm very behind the times. You're modern. You're ahead of the times Vivian. Don't let them tell you that. You were definitely ahead of the times.