The Daily - The Cosby Verdict and #MeToo

Episode Date: April 27, 2018

Bill Cosby has been convicted of sexual assault following years of accusations from dozens of women. What changed between the first trial, which ended in a hung jury, and this one? Guests: Graham Bowley, an investigative reporter at The Times who has been covering the Cosby proceedings; Lili Bernard, a former guest star on “The Cosby Show” and one of more than 50 women who have spoken out against the entertainer. For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily.

From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. Today, Bill Cosby has been found guilty of sexual assault after years of claims against him. What changed between the first trial and the second? It's Friday, April 27th. First trial and the second. It's Friday, April 27th. Can you call in one minute?

Hey, Graham, it's Michael. Call in one minute, Michael. I'll call you back. Call in one minute, please. Okay, Michael. I'll call you back. Call me in one minute, please. Okay, bye. Is Mr. Crosby prepared to go to prison? Andrew, can we have a word with Mr. Crosby? Are you prepared to go to prison? Go, go! Go, go!

Go, go! Go, go! I called my colleague, Graham Bowley, on Thursday afternoon, right after the verdict had come down in the Cosby trial. Hi. Hey, Graham, it's Michael. Hi, Michael. Hey. It sounds like that was a little bit of a hectic scene.

It was an amazing scene on the steps as we were all waiting for Mr. Cosby to come out, which he did. Oh, wow, he just walked out of the courtroom? Well, he came out of the courtroom onto the steps in this bright sunlight, and it was like a carnival. Bill Cosby, three words for you. Guilty, guilty, guilty. The accusers were there, the media was there, public's there, press cameras everywhere. And then finally Mr. Cosby comes out, his lawyers first, a big train of them.

And they go down the side of the courtroom, it's very loud, it's a huge hubbub. And Mr. Cosby walks in very slowly, and he raises his left hand. You know, people are actually shouting, you know, attacking him, but also, we got you, Bill. You know, there's somebody shouting very loud, we got you, Bill, we got you. And he was led slowly down the side, and he stopped, and he was so loud, you couldn't hear anything. He didn't speak. We are very disappointed by the verdict. We don't think Mr. Cosby's guilty of anything and the fight is not over. His voice tried to speak

but you couldn't hear anything. It was so loud. And then into his car and he's just driven off with lights flashing and his arm raised. He's gone. Let's just take a step back because we really just dove right in here. Where exactly are you? I am in Norristown.

I spent the day in court, in the courtroom here in Norristown. Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania. Well, Bill Cosby's second trial on sexual assault charges won't be like his first trial. Well, a judge in the Bill Cosby case has ruled that five additional accusers will be able to testify in the upcoming retrial next month. Cosby's first trial ended in a hung jury in June. Only one prior accuser was allowed to testify in that trial, along with the main accuser, Andrea Constand. After the verdict was read in the first Cosby trial last year in 2017, I recall feeling devastated and distraught and just totally disappointed in humanity that I said to myself, there's no way I can go back next year. I mean, not only did I

tell that to myself, I also told that to friends of mine. There's no way that I'm going to possibly able to endure going back. Lily Bernard is one of Bill Cosby's many accusers whose statute of limitations had run out, but who attended both of the trials. And then I stepped back. I thought, I said, hey, look, the purpose for me going back is to support Andre Constant and the other five survivors. I have to stand strong for them. So I just prepared myself. I was in these last eight or ten months in between the trials.

I felt a bit of trepidation. But now, being in a courtroom with a rapist was difficult, but at the same time, I felt empowered because when Bill Cosby, and often he did this during the day, passed by me with just inches, you know, I was really pleased in that my heart didn't quiver, you know, my breathing didn't become short. When he passed by me, I looked at him with disdain and I looked at him as if he were disempowered. So being with him, you know, just inches away from him where I could literally put my hand out and touch him and not feel my heart quicken and not begin to hyperventilate and be able to stand firm and not even feel afraid, for me, it was really empowering. And it was a real moment of healing, a healing towards me. But his odor. Oh, shoot, I'm going to cry.

I'm sorry. Every time he passed by me in that courthouse, I smelled the tobacco. I smelled his sweat. I smelled his cologne. And that took me right back because I remember the smell. However, the fact that I could stand there unshaken was good. And then regardless of the verdict, it's still a victory. of victory. Yeah, so we'd sat two weeks of testimony and arguments. Arguments finished on Tuesday, and Wednesday morning, the jury started deliberating, 11 o'clock. And then

they had a few questions. We went back in. The evidence was replayed. And then finally, at about one o'clock, we get the message that they've got a verdict. So we all crammed into the courthouse. In the back were some of the other victims who had sat through the whole proceedings. Mr. Cosby at the front, Andrew Constant there with a lawyer. And very quickly, the jury came in. So I was actually expecting when the jury came out, I was actually expecting another hung jury because that's what happened last year. You know, several times the jury kept coming back and saying, Your Honor,

we are deadlocked. And, you know, and so the judge would say, well, go back and deliberate. It's your duty. Try to come with a verdict. And so they did this several times last year. And jury number two told everybody he was guilty on three counts. And Mr. Cosby sat very quietly. The only noise was a very loud cheer from some of the women who say they were also abused by Mr. Cosby. People cheering at the back. And they went out quickly. And you could just hear them in the back in the hallways of the court cheering. So the court was very quiet.

Andrea sat very quietly and didn't celebrate. that Andrea sat very quietly and didn't celebrate. When that poor person stood up and proclaimed righteously and strongly and in a loud voice, guilty on three counts, I was in a state of shock. I felt like a volcano of emotion had erupted within me, beginning at my gut and going up to my heart. And I felt like an explosion of sobbing was literally coming out of me and I had to literally put my hand over my mouth because I just felt like, you know, crying, but not crying in despair, but crying in really jubilation, crying in vindication,

crying in relief. Yes, I was crying in relief. I was crying in victory. I was crying in gratitude. We were all crying. The three of us caused the survivors in there. So they escorted us out because we were just making too much sobbing noise. And I think there's video on CNN where you see us bursting out the wooden courtroom door into this white courthouse hallway, and we are literally collapsed on this banister, and we are sobbing and sobbing, just these wailing with joy and vindication and

gratitude and relief, and we are just beside ourselves, really. We had no idea that inside the courtroom they were having this heated argument. Then there was a big outburst when the district attorney fought for Mr. Cosby not to be released until sentencing. He wanted to keep him in detention. And Mr. Cosby, at that point, burst out very aggressively towards Mr. Steele because Mr. Steele said he was a flight risk and he had a plane. And Mr. Cosby swore at Kevin Steele and said, no, you know, I don't have a plane. And he was immediately subdued by his lawyers, who surrounded him very quickly. Wait, just to be clear, in front of everybody,

Cosby swore and kind of physically got a little aggressive towards the... Absolutely, yeah. This was a very big moment for him, and he swore at the DA. I mean, these two had been, like, staring at each other through many days of the trial, and this is the one big outburst. Otherwise, for many days, he'd sat there very quietly in the front, leaning back in his chair, staring at the table, walking in and out with his cane and helped by his aides. You know, he's partially blind.

But this was a moment of great tension. And he burst out and swore at the DA. What did Cosby actually say? What were the words he used? He called him an arsehole. You arsehole, I don't have a plane. The first thought was like, where's Andrea? I want to hug her.

I want to hug her. Because last year, at the end of the reading of the verdict, we were so distraught. And she was just standing strongly. So this time I was hoping I could see Andrea. But the police were escorting off to the side of the halls. We had to move or something because maybe the defendant was coming. I don't know. But we were all trying to catch our breath and wipe our tears away and

breathe deeply and to be able to step outside and meet the gaggle of media without collapsing. And so once we composed ourselves and wiped our tears, we stepped out into the sunlight. It was a bright, beautiful, sunny day. And there's a lot of hugging, a lot of crying, a lot of high fives. It was just, it was just joyous. Now I'm across the road from the courthouse waiting for the district attorney to come in and give, you know, his press conference. And Andrea Constant is going to be with him. I don't think she's going to speak, but she's going to stand by his side with her lawyer. And the district attorney, Kevin Steele, is going to talk about his victory here today,

which is a big victory for him. Thank you all for being here in our grand jury room. Kevin Steele is a guy who has pursued this case. What was revealed through this investigation was a man who had spent decades preying on women that he drugged and sexually assaulted and a man who had evaded this moment here today for far too long. He used his celebrity, he used his wealth, he used his network of supporters to help him conceal his crimes. He used his network of supporters to help him conceal his crimes.

And now we really know today who was behind that act, who the real Bill Cosby was. And he said, you know, we were not scared to pursue power and money. Mr. Cosby was a very powerful person. He made the point that, you know, Mr. Cosby had lawyers from four different law firms over these many years in which he'd push back and push back. And they finally got this victory. So we hope that this case sends a strong message that the victims of these types of crimes can come forward and be heard on what happened to them. You know, the history is that back in 2005 when Andrew came forward, the prosecutor at the time didn't pursue the case.

pursue the case. On behalf of our office, we are sorry for what happened then, but we got a chance to make up for it, and we hopefully have. We hopefully have. And he apologized for the failings of his office from last time. He claimed a bigger victory for the Me Too movement. He said, Andrea here has pushed forward the movement and hoped it would encourage other victims to come forward. He was very emotional about that. And I hope that people recognize that you've got to show courage like this lady did. Like she showed courage.

She stepped up. She went forward. And we got to the right result. And she stayed through this. She didn't have to start down this journey with us. She didn't have to come here for the first trial. She didn't have to come here for the first trial. She didn't have to come here for the second trial, but she did. I don't know if you noticed, but is this the first criminal conviction

for a well-known figure accused of sexual harassment or sexual assault since the MeToo movement essentially blew open? Yes, it's the first high-profile trial since the MeToo movement started. 14 years later, it may be easy to forget that she was that first courageous person that stood up in public to go to the authorities and say that Bill Cosby drugged and sexually assaulted her. Her courage, her resilience in the face of horrible and unfounded attacks upon her and her family has been so inspiring to all of us.

Lily, there's been a lot of talk about the idea that the main difference between the last trial and this one is that the Me Too movement happened in between. Do you think that that's true? Yeah, absolutely. I think that what the Me Too movement has done is help every member in society to understand that it's perfectly normal for a rape victim to wait years to report or to confront or to hold accountable their perpetrators. Or it's perfectly normal for a rape victim to go back to their rapist because, you know, nine times out of ten, their rapist is a beloved individual. And so what the Me Too movement has done is actually provided a foundation for jurists,

for the average person, for a jury of peers to be able to understand behavior of raped victims, you know, and to not look at their waiting to report, to not look at their going back to their perpetrator, to not look at their having given a gift to their perpetrator after he drugged and raped them as an indication of guilt. It is not, because these are perfectly normal behavior of raped victims. I want to thank the jury. normal behavior of rape victims. I want to thank the jury. Justice has been done. I stand here in the spirit of Martin Luther King,

who said that the arc of the moral universe is long, but today it has bent towards justice. We are vindicated, we are validated, and we are now part of the tsunami of women's power and justice. We are not shutting up and we're not going away. Get over it. I spoke to one of the women after the last verdict who had accused Bill Cosby of sexually assaulting her. And I'm sure you've spoken to many of them. And they were so crushed after that last verdict. They felt like they had, in their minds, been robbed of justice,

but also they felt that every other woman had been robbed of justice, too. And so I wonder how the reaction today feels in contrast to that. I mean, they're jubilant. They were so happy. They were tearful. You know, there were more than 50 people.

Women came forward to accuse Mr. Cosby. Andrea Constance is the only single one that's gone to a criminal trial. The others had come forward too late to even be considered. So they saw Andrea's case as sort of the one chance of vindication. And they didn't get it last time when they were crushed. They did get it this time, and they're jubilant. Do you get the sense that these women feel as if this verdict, even though they might not have testified, that this was their verdict too? Yeah, I think they shared they've invested a lot in this time, reliving their own stories and coming forward and being pushed back and shamed by the Cosby side. And some of them branded as liars. And, you know, in seeing

them day in, day out, I see them, they're first in the court in the morning, they're last to leave at night. When I leave in the evening after reporting, you know, eight o'clock at night, they've been on the steps lighting candles. They've thrown everything into this. Lily, what does this verdict mean for you personally? Three guilty verdicts for me personally means just a victory. You know, a victory for humanity, really, is how I look upon it. I look upon this victory as a victory for humanity. And it has not only restored my faith in humanity, but it has also, you know, I think just made culture turn this

tremendous corner towards believing women. And that's really a beautiful thing. The jury in the Cosby trial found Bill Cosby guilty of three counts of aggravated indecent assault against Andrea Constand. The judge has not yet set a sentencing date, but each count carries a penalty of up to 10 years in a state prison. We'll be right back. We'll be right back.

Here's what else you need to know today. How much of your legal work was handled by Michael Cohen? Well, as a percentage of my overall legal work, a tiny, tiny little fraction. But Michael would represent me and represent me on some things. He represents me like with this crazy Stormy Daniels deal. He represented me. And, you know, from what I see, he did absolutely nothing wrong. During a wide-ranging telephone interview with Fox and Friends on Thursday morning, President Trump acknowledged for the first time that his longtime lawyer, Michael Cohen,

had represented him in efforts to silence Stephanie Clifford, the adult film actress, who said she had an affair with Trump a decade ago. Trump had previously denied any knowledge of the $130,000 payment by Cohen to keep Daniels quiet, a payment that is now the subject of a federal investigation. Another gift from the heavens in this case. They keep coming.

I don't know how I've fallen into such good luck in this case, but I'm going to take it. Shortly after the Fox interview, Clifford's lawyer, Michael Avenatti, was asked about the president's disclosure on MSNBC's Morning Joe What's the impact of that? It's a hugely damaging admission by the president because according to what he said on Air Force One a few weeks ago

he didn't know anything about the agreement he didn't know anything about the payment Michael Cohen went off and did this on a lark and Mr. Trump knew nothing about it we now find out that that's bogus And on Friday Kim Jong Un and Mr. Trump knew nothing about it. We now find out that that's bogus. And on Friday, Kim Jong-un became the first North Korean leader to set foot in South Korean-controlled territory. In a dramatic start to a historic summit with South Korean President Moon Jae-in,

Kim walked from North Korea into the demilitarized zone which separates the North and South and entered the Peace House on the South Korean side. In a major breakthrough, the two men agreed to work to remove all nuclear weapons from the Korean Peninsula and pursue a broader peace agreement that would end decades of conflict. Both goals require the approval of the U.S., a major military ally of the South. ally of the South. The summit sets the stage for a critical meeting between Kim and President Trump, scheduled for the coming weeks.

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See you Monday.