The Daily - ‘The Decision of My Life’

Episode Date: October 13, 2021

This episode contains descriptions of violence and a suicide attempt.When the Taliban took over Afghanistan in August, our producer started making calls. With the help of colleagues, she contacted women in different cities and towns to find out how their lives had changed and what they were experiencing.Then she heard from N, whose identity has been concealed for her safety.This is the story of how one 18-year-old woman’s life has been transformed under Taliban rule.Guest: Lynsea Garrison, a senior international producer for The Daily, spoke with N, a young woman whose life changed drastically after the fall of Kabul.Love listening to New York Times podcasts? Help us test a new audio product in beta and give us your thoughts to shape what it becomes. Visit nytimes.com/audio to join the beta.Sign up here to get The Daily in your inbox each morning. And for an exclusive look at how the biggest stories on our show come together, subscribe to our newsletter. Background reading: “When we think about our future, we can’t see anything.” This is what some Afghan girls said when they were asked about life under the Taliban.Four Afghan women who sought refuge in the United States talk about their lives now and everything they gave up.For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday. 

From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. After the fall of Afghanistan, my colleague Lindsay Garrison started making phone calls. The calls were all to women in Afghanistan. Me and my colleagues talked to dozens of them in different cities and towns across the country. We wanted to know how their lives had changed,

what they were experiencing now that the Taliban had taken over the country. And it was while we were making these calls that I got a text from an unknown number, someone who wanted to talk with me. She got my number from an aid worker I had spoken with. I had no idea of her situation, but we set up a time to talk.

Hello? hello hello hi how are you i'm fine um you fine i am good thank you so much for asking um thank you so much for your time. So I'm going to call you N. That's okay? Okay, but my English is weak and I have a little bit problem in English. That's no problem at all. I can speak... And it started out like most calls. Can you just tell me a little bit about yourself as much as you're comfortable with? How old you are?

Do you have any children? Just a little bit about yourself. Okay. I don't have any children because I'm single. She's 18, lives in Kabul, and she studied Islamic studies in university. At least she did until the Taliban took over. It was my third semester, but I can't learn more because of Taliban. And they just locked our university. And wait a minute, can I? Sure, sure. Okay. wait a minute can i sure sure um i'm really sorry oh don't be no it's okay do you need to take care of something uh yeah no i was talking in english and my mom's come. I don't want to, they know about that.

So for this reason. Ah, okay. I told her that I'm talking with my friend. So. Okay. So where, where are you right now? I'm at home. Ah, okay.

Okay. So your parents don't know that you're talking to me, obviously. Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. Okay. I'm just, you know, they want to give me to a Talib because they think if I got married with a Talib, there will be a connection with Talib,

and the Taliban will not not um you know kill or you know there will not be a danger for us and and you know every time i'm talking to my father that please don't do this we can fight against them like a family but he's telling me that no we can't fight they are stronger than us and they will kill my sons and and you know all of them are behaving bad very bad to me because they were telling me that you know you're not our sister or our daughter because you are not helping us if you were a member of our family then you will accept that you will accept to marry with Talib

but I can't if I got married with a person who is very who is against of me or who can't accept me like a human then how should I spend all my life with him I see I see now every day they're beating me at the first my father beat me and then my brother then another

one then they start all of them they start beating me they beat beat me with a pipe. So for this reason, I'm searching for a way to get out of this home because they're not behaving good with me. But if I leave this home, I can't come back because if I come back, then they will kill me. Your family will kill you? Yes. Is everything okay? Yeah, can I... No, can I catch?

Today, the story of one teenage girl in Afghanistan. It's Wednesday, October 13th. When Ann hung up the phone with me, I didn't know if someone in her family had overheard our conversation, and if they did overhear our conversation, if she would then get punished for it. I also had just so many other questions for her. But around two hours later,

she messaged me saying it was safe to talk again. Hey Ann. Hello. Hi. Hi. Are you okay? Yes.

Yes. Yes. I'm talking, you know, not loudly because they're asleep and for this reason I'm talking, I'm not talking loudly. Okay. um i um i mean um i was talking with you my brother came to the room i think he was listening to me so i'm very trying to you know put it secret or because i know it's a big risk do you think I'm just wondering if this feels like a good idea or if maybe I don't want to get you in any trouble if they hear you. You know, my elder brother, he's not at home tonight. So for this reason, I'm just talking with you. And the small brother and father, they're asleep on another floor. So for this reason I'm just talking with you. And the small brother and father, they're asleep on another floor.

And there we have like a basement. So I'm in there and there is a window that I can see if someone comes. I can see them from, you know, feet. And I'm watching, I'm watching. I'm thinking, care about it. Yes. So with Anne keeping a lookout through a window in her basement,

I asked her to take me back to the beginning. I guess I wanted to ask you what you remember of your childhood, just what it was like for you to be a little girl growing up. Are you talking about positive memories or negative ones? Oh, I mean, I think whatever comes into your mind first. About my dad? Yeah, and your childhood with him. You know, every girl,

girls always love their father. When I was thinking about my father, I was thinking that he's a hero. And I was proud. father was a high-ranking officer in the Afghan police force in the 90s. And as the Taliban gained power, N says her father's police unit became a target. So growing up, she often overheard the stories of his service,

these kinds of war stories. The one she heard a lot was about a time well before she was even born, when the Taliban took over the country. They detained her father's colleagues in the police force, put them in prison. Apparently their plan was to assassinate them. But the story goes, N's father sneaked in and freed them. But that made him even more of an enemy in the Taliban's eyes. But that made him even more of an enemy in the Taliban's eyes.

So he fled to Pakistan, with N's mother and older sibling to safety. It was only after the U.S. invasion, in the early 2000s when N was just a baby, that the family felt safe enough to return to Afghanistan. They settled in a province in the northeast part of the country where N's mother grew up. And that's where N spent her childhood. I remember all these days, I was trying to be a great child, great daughter. She says that growing up, she really looked up to her father.

She said she kind of followed him around, watching everything he did. And he kind of applauded it. My father was always saying that this girl, when I'm doing anything, when I'm fixing a machine or something else, she always stands in front of me and she was always searching that what I'm doing, she wants to know. And he was proud.

And he was always telling call her this nickname. It was after a brand of milk that she apparently drank all the time when she was little. You know, I was drinking that milk too much for that reason. That's cute. She really loved and admired her father. And it sounded like a really bright time in her life. And I miss that too much. But in the background, as N grew older,

the Taliban had firmly reestablished itself in Afghanistan. And her oldest brother had followed in her father's footsteps, joining the Afghan police force himself. This made the family even more of a target for the Taliban. This made the family even more of a target for the Taliban. In 2011, you know, we were like a guest in my aunt's home. You know, we went for our winter's holiday on there. When N is around eight years old, she said her family went on a trip to another town.

They stayed in the home of her aunt and her uncle, who was also in the Afghan police force. Me, my mom, and my two brothers and father. And one night, N says, the Taliban came to the home and set it on fire. And they put a hand bomb into the home in this attack. Ann and her parents weren't harmed, but several other family members were trapped in the attack. My aunt's husband, her daughter, and three other children, they died. You know, from burning, they die. And the person who was alive was my sister, and she was totally burned. She was not normal. But those people with her, they lost their life. They lost their life. It wouldn't be the only attack. Can I tell you that Taliban attacked... Four years later, in 2015, En said Talibs came to her home. They came to her home, they attacked on my father,

they beat my father and also my brother. So the family fled back to Pakistan. So the family fled back to Pakistan. But N said her father really didn't want, that type. He loves Afghanistan. So they returned. But this time, they settled in Kabul. And that's where En spent her teenage years. When we come to Kabul, it was safe. There was no Taliban.

I was spending my life normally, very normally. And focused on her studies. I decided to be a businesswoman. To learn business, to create a business for myself. So she told me she studied very hard. Every night I was learning. She slept only four hours a night. I was trying to learn and learn and learn.

And then she passed this exam that would allow her to go to university and pursue her dream of studying business. She was over the moon about that. Her parents were not. for men. It is not for you. They said, look, you can go to university, but if you go, you have to study Islamic studies. If you don't want to change it to Islamic studies, then we don't allow you to go stay at home and don't go on there. And she was definitely disappointed, but she didn't, you know, not want to go to university. So she agreed. And I said that it's OK. Now I can be, you know, a judge.

She got really into this idea that she could study Islamic law and become a judge. What Islam say about the rights of women. If someone kill another person, then what should we do? And there was a TV show about a case. She'd watch TV and sometimes a show she would watch would involve a criminal case. And she'd think to herself, like, if a case come to me like this, then I have to think that how should I handle or how should I think? How would I handle this case? If there will be many people in front of me, then how can I defend someone? And then she'd go in front of her mirror and kind of pretend that she was a judge.

In front of mirror, I was trying to be a judge and was talking with myself and, you know, acting like a judge. I was doing all these things and I said that, oh my God, if I will be a judge, then it will be, you know, fabulous. Because there was no one in our family or there was no girl who were a judge. And I said, okay, it's also good. You know, she felt really excited that maybe she could kind of blaze a trail in her family in this way. And she was just about to start her fourth semester in August. We were starting our new semester. When the Taliban came to Kabul.

Then this. Suddenly, all dreams. Someone broke all your dreams. A life without any dreams is like nonsense. It's nothing. And, you know, I lost everything. Thank you. Afghanistan's government has fallen to Islamist militants who make up the Taliban. There are scenes of panic and pandemonium at Kabul airport today as desperate people pour onto the runway trying to flee the country. Increasing numbers of Kabul residents have been looking for a way out. Who don't feel safe, who are petrified. In what can only be described as a chaotic exodus.

Now, people are literally clinging on. This is extremely concerning to the population, especially women, who will be required to cover their faces. They will not be permitted to work in traditional roles. When the Taliban came to Kabul in August, N was among the thousands of people trying to get out. She knew her dreams of becoming a judge would be dashed. But maybe even more than that, because of their history with the Taliban,

her family was under serious threat. She thought if the Taliban found her father, they would kill him. My father is scared about that. If Taliban knew about us and they were searching, we are not safe. You know, my father is like a criminal in Taliban's eyes. And we don't feel good. So the family scrambled to figure out how they could leave. We were trying to move out from the country together with my family.

They were trying. Anne said her father and brothers tried going to the airport, but to no avail. And Anne decided to try the French embassy. She had a friend who knew someone there, or maybe had a connection. So she waited there for three days, trying to get her family on any kind of evacuation list. She said it was crowded and chaotic. And on the third day, her family said, it's just no use. You on the third day, her family said, it's just no use. You might as well come back home.

I tried my best. I really tried. Her father was crestfallen. He needed to come up with a different plan. And that's when things really took a turn. So one of my father's friends told him that if you give your daughter to a talib, then there will not be a danger for you and your family. So for this reason, my father wants to give me to a toddler.

N immediately protested. And she said her father and brothers put her on a kind of house arrest. They looked everywhere for her passport so she couldn't leave. She said they took her phone away. They monitored her movements, her conversations. She told me that even when she used the bathroom, her little brother would stand outside the door. And it's around this time when N says, The first time they beat me with pipe and my whole body, there were scratch of that pipe. Her family starts to beat her to try to make her comply. And pleaded to them, I'd rather die than be married to a Talib. But she said they didn't seem to care.

They proceeded with putting pressure on her. And, you know, I was very tired about this meeting because I don't want to marry with Talib. And if a person gives me two choices, to marry with the Taliban, to accept suicide, I will suicide. I will attend suicide, but I will not marry. You'd rather die than... Yeah.

That's it. And Anne said she felt hopeless. And I told him, my father and everyone, don't beat me, I will do it. You know, you don't kill me. I will kill my own self. So she attempted to take her life. I cut my hand because I want to, you know, I want to put a deadline to my life. She cut her wrist. And in this situation, when the blood was coming from my hand, they were not paying attention on it. She cut her wrist. But N's attempt to take her life didn't seem to deter her family's plan.

She said a few days later, her father had some visitors over. He had found a Talib who was interested in N. I don't know who was he, but his mother and sister, they came to her home. So the Talib's mom and sister came over to inspect N to see if she was a good match. You know, I brought this tea for them, but my hand was shaking and the tea just, you know,

the tea, it licked at the floor. It spilled, yeah. Yes, yes. When they saw that, you know, she doesn't know how to work at home, and she's like, you know, and I have read, wear like a T-shirt, the way that I can show them my hand, and the way that they think that I'm not a good girl. Anne had this really pretty fresh, obvious wound

from her suicide attempt on her wrist. And she was hoping to show the wound just enough that they would get a look at it. You know, in Afghanistan, when a person attends suicide or a girl, they think that she's not like she's not a good girl and like this like a troublemaker yes like a bad girl they think like this so for this reason i have showed them not directly but i have showed them my hand and they talked with my father that, what was that? And I think they just catched my signal. And they reject me.

They reject me. But that had other consequences for her once the Taleb's family left. so when they left our home my father again they he beats me that what have you done they just take to my you know main part like your stomach uh Yes. On there. And I don't know what we name it, but the main part, you know, we are girls. Oh, they're kicking you in, like they're actually kicking you in your genital area. Yes. Yes. Yes. It was bleeding.

I told to my mother, mom, it's bleeding. And I'm feeling painful. No, he was not believing that. And he was telling to my brother to broke, you know, a wood, to beat me with a wood. N said, this is the way it's been in her house. The abuse has been constant in the weeks since the Taliban came to Kabul. Sometimes when they beat me, I cry. It's a normal thing.

When you feel pain, you start crying. And he locks the windows and the door. He locks the windows and the door. And he's saying to me that don't, you know, stay silent, don't voice. I see. Don't yell. Don't yell out. Don't make a noise. Yes. Yes. And when I'm crying and I make a voice, then he's saying to me that I will give you to Taleb, I will give you to Taleb, I will give you to Taleb. you know he's a good man my father but when he took that decision to give me the talib after that he doesn't play a rule like my father he just play a rule like for like a talib

he's acting like my enemy the only person who is with me and home is my mother. My mother, she's trying very much to stay in front of them, you know, to save me. saying that you are a girl and you will go to your husband home and I will stay with my sons. So I should be with them. I should accept everything that they are telling me. You know, unfortunately, I can't help you. I know this is wrong, but I can't do anything. So your mom, so she's trying to defend you, but at the end of the day, there's nothing she can do. Is that, Is that? Yes. You know, the day when my hand was bleeding and she was trying to help me, she was, my cries coming.

She was trying to help me and she was saying that, talked her to hospital, she's bleeding. Talked her to hospital. She's bleeding. But, you know, they talked my mother out through. And they were beating me. And when I saw that moment, I see that there is no one to help me. You know, the only person was my mom. And after that, she come and she put a bandage.

It was like a bandage. She put it on my hand to stop the bleeding. And I love her because she's fighting for me. I'm sorry. No, I'm sorry no I'm sorry you know it's so very hard that you stand against your family you know the only thing that we have is our family and I love my dad also but I don't know why he's doing all these things with me. You know, if he loves all the family, then I'm also a member of this family. He should stand for me also.

If Taliban wants to kill us, then it's not the right thing, you know, to put put me on hand of telephone you know if he know that they're bad people why why he's doing all these things I I really don't I'm sorry no it's okay I I mean what are you more scared of at this point like is it is it going to the Taliban or is it your own father and what's scarier to you you know no I scared from my family because they're my own family you know the enemy the taliban is not i don't love them but i love my family when they were doing all these things i'm um i i feel bad that my my own family who i love them who i'm their daughter, their sister. They're doing all these things with me. They know. I told to my father that you are the one who saved many people's lives from Taliban. How should you want to give your daughter to them? How can you decide this? And he told me my family is important.

I cite this, and he told me, my family is important. And he told me that if I was a daughter and you were a father, then tell me what will you do for your family? Save one person or to save all the family? You're talking about saving your family. Am I not his family's member? Am I not his daughter? It's like a nonsense. family and I'm feeling shameful in front of you that my family is like this. It's not, you know, no one's family is like this.

He's my father and when I'm thinking about it, I, you know, I broke from inside. I don't know why. When I was child, he loved me, but now I don't know why he don't love me. You know, now I'm always doing, I'm cooking his favorite food he loves tea I'm always making tea for him um I'm doing anything I will do anything that to be um you know something that they love me or change their decision. Because it's a decision of my life. And it's not like a play. It's the decision of my life. You know, they broke my dream, Taliban. It's not okay, but now I can deal with that.

Okay, there's many girls that, you know, Taliban broke their dreams. Okay, fine. But my life, you know, I can't spend my whole life with someone like with a talib. I can't. I really can't, you know. I will kill myself or I will out of home, but I will not accept that. But if I leave this home, I doesn't have any family like this. This home, I didn't have any family, like this. And it's hard for a girl to live alone in Afghanistan. So it's a decision of my life. so justin just i want to um let you get some sleep but i just in terms of the next couple of days um what are you kind of worried about right now for the next couple of days

you know i'm scared about their silence because they are not talking in front of me and i'm really scared about that um they're trying to erase the mark of when I did suicide. They're trying to erase that mark. The suicide attempt? Yes, yes. They were talking about that, that we should hide this mark, that no one, you know, you will be not acceptable with this mark because everyone will ask from us, why have you done this thing so I just feel

that someone is coming that they want to hide the mark I'm trying to hear what they want to do but I can't so I'm very scared about their silence. Well, thank you again. And please message me the next time you get the chance and we'll talk again. Okay. Don't think about me i don't want to be you know make anything any bad thing for anyone so don't think about me thank you so much for me also yes thanks ann bye bye my heart. I didn't hear from N again on that phone.

I waited every day and nothing. But before we had got off the phone, I did ask her for her best friend's phone number, just as a way to stay connected to N in case she couldn't call me again. And in the days that followed, her friend sent me photos of what was happening to N. Her father and brother had mixed boiling water and oil to burn N's wrist so badly that the burn mark would actually hide her suicide scar to make sure she was presentable for marriage.

to make sure she was presentable for marriage. And that's all I really knew for several days. Until recently. A message popped up on my phone from an unknown number. It was N. Hi, ma'am. I hope you're fine. And now I'm safe a little bit. And that's my new number. And it's safe. You can call me or text me if you want. She got out.

Now I feel a little bit good. She told me that her father had lined up a new talib to marry N. And when they tried to burn her wrist, that was just the final straw. And after that I decided that I want to leave this home. I want to leave home.

So she made her decision. She waited for a day when she knew her father and brothers would leave the house. And on that morning, I cooked my father's favorite food. And cooked her father his favorite breakfast. The egg with tomato and some potatoes. He loved that. Anne, she just looked at him to kind of freeze his image in her mind.

You know, when I was capturing that moment, I always think to myself that, you know, in some way he's kind. I was trying to... I was capturing that I was going to miss him. I will not see him again. And then he was gone. And packed a single bag

and quietly escaped. I love you. because of the beatings her family inflicted. It's them she thinks about the most. Since the days she escaped, she's heard that the Taliban has come to her house with guns and rope, demanding that her father fulfill his promise. So now, she's worried that in making a decision for her life, she's also made a decision about theirs and she hopes it wasn't the wrong one.

It's a thought that torments her alone. Plus, she misses her family especially her mom. You know, I was written family, especially her mom. So N has been writing her letters that she knows she can never send. But at least it makes her feel like she's talking to her mom again. It makes her feel like she's not all alone. 손이 소리 소리가... So so We'll be right back.

Here's what else you need to know today. A record number of Americans quit their jobs in August, according to new data from the U.S. government, in the latest sign of how much the pandemic has changed the labor market. About 4.3 million people voluntarily left their jobs for a variety of reasons, including inconvenient hours, insufficient pay, and the belief that they could find better jobs. Among the hardest-hit sectors were restaurants, hotels, and retail. About 890,000 workers quit their jobs in the food and hotel industries, and about 720,000 quit their jobs in retail.

Today's episode was produced by Lindsay Garrison and Stella Tan, with help from Soraya Shockley and Nina Potok. It was edited by MJ Davis-Lynn, contains original scoring by Dan Powell, by M.J. Davis-Lynn, contains original scoring by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Alisha Ba'itu, and Rochelle Banja, and was engineered

by Chris Wood. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landfork of Wonderly. Special thanks to Doug Shoresman, Rojean Jackett,

David McCraw, Paula Schumann, Michael Benoit, and Perrin Behrouz. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.