The Daily - The End of Democracy in Myanmar

Episode Date: February 4, 2021

Rumors had been swirling for days before Myanmar’s military launched a coup, taking back power and ousting the civilian leader, Daw Aung San Suu Kyi.Myanmar’s experiment with democracy, however flawed, now appears to be over.Today, we examine the rise and fall of Aung San Suu Kyi.Guest: Hannah Beech, The New York Times’s Southeast Asia bureau chief. For an exclusive look at how the biggest stories on our show come together, subscribe to our newsletter. You can read the latest edition here.Background reading: The coup returns Myanmar to full military rule after a short span of quasi-democracy. Here is what we know.Myanmar seemed to be building a peaceful transition to civilian governance. Instead, a personal struggle between military and civilian leaders brought it all down.Aung San Suu Kyi, once considered a shimmering icon of democracy, has lost her halo.For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday. 

From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro. This is The Daily. In Myanmar, a decade-long experiment in democracy appears to be over. After a landslide election victory four months ago, the country's civilian leader was removed from power this week by the country's military. Today, my colleague Hannah Beach on the rise and fall of Aung San Suu Kyi. It's Thursday, February 4th. Hannah, I wonder if you can describe this coup. Set the scene for us.

So, a lot of us went to sleep on Sunday night thinking that there were all these coup rumors in the air and it had been going on this kind of coup fervor for days in Myanmar. And we went to bed thinking this is something that could happen, but we don't really think it's going to happen. And so we all went to sleep and then suddenly suddenly our phones start ringing, and the news is back. Nobel Peace Prize winner Aung San Suu Kyi, who spent more than a decade in detention, has been detained once again by the military. Dong Aung San Suu Kyi, the Nobel Peace Prize laureate who led the civilian government, had been detained. And then we entered this kind of awful mix of rumor and fact and fiction.

There were no shots fired as they rounded up and arrested an unknown number of its elected leaders and members of Myanmar's pro-democracy party. Maybe this person's gone. Maybe that person's gone. There's very little information that is clear. And we suddenly have this moment when the military goes back to kind of the oldest trick in the book. Widespread internet outages. Which is to cut much of the telecommunications in the country. Suddenly Facebook Messenger goes down.

Even some landlines are disconnected. And I think it was at that point when we realized this is real. This is happening. The military is back in power and this experiment with democracy, however flawed, for Myanmar was over. So, Hannah, what were you thinking when you realized that there had, in fact, been a coup? So, Hannah, what were you thinking when you realized that there had, in fact, been a coup? I think for many people in Myanmar and the world, the story of the country is about one woman, right? Dawn Sansuchi.

And she's both considered a heroine of democracy and a villain for her defense of the military's ethnic cleansing of the Rohingya. And what this coup proved is that it's Aung San Suu Kyi and her relationship with the military that is the crux of everything that's happened in the country and where the country will be going in the future. So where does that story, that relationship with the military, start? So Aung San Suu Kyi was born into political and, really, military nobility. Her father was an independence hero fighting against the British. He was the founder of the modern Burmese army. The country at the time was called Burma, not Myanmar. But he was also assassinated when she was two years old.

And in 1962, the military unleashes its first coup, and the country was under direct army rule for the next almost 50 years. During that time, Aung San Suu Kyi spent most of her years overseas. She went to Oxford, she got married, she had kids. But in 1988, she went back to Myanmar, and she was suddenly catapulted in front of a crowd at Shwedagon Pagoda, which was the holiest site in Myanmar. And she gave a speech to thousands of people who were protesting military rule. And she was obviously incredibly nervous, but she delivered an amazing speech.

she delivered an amazing speech. And at that moment, I think she really kind of claimed her political birthright. Hmm. Which was that of a daughter of a former military hero calling for the end of a certain era

and military rule. Yeah, and I think that great leaders have the key to their leadership thrust on them or it's something they have in their blood. And in Aung San Suu Kyi's case, she had both things in her at the same time. And she used the kind of steely military resolve that was part and parcel of who she was,

that was part of her political DNA to survive what happened next, was, that was part of her political DNA, to survive what happened next, which was that the military arrested her and she spent 15 years in house arrest. So her first major brush with the military is that it detains her, despite her personal links to Myanmar's military past. She is seen as a threat to the military leadership of the country. Yeah, that's true. One of the things that Donald Son Suu Kyi did that really threatened the military was she starts a political party called the National League for Democracy, which ended up becoming the kind of main opposition force for decades.

And while she was under house arrest at this point, she was still not giving in to the generals. To take one example, her husband was dying of cancer in Britain, and the junta said, okay, you can leave the country, but it was a one-way ticket, and she refused. She chose her country over her family, and I think the people of Myanmar remember that. So while she's under house arrest and under the thumb of the military, she is becoming a kind of folk hero to her fellow countrymen. She's becoming a heroine of democracy. She is the one kind of talisman that the country has to believe in.

She is the one kind of talisman that the country has to believe in. I mean, one of the remarkable things about going to Myanmar in the battle days is that you you accept this photo that you have of this woman who was kind of a goddess and a heroine and a political icon all wrapped into one. In a popularity contest, there is no contest. The Aung San Suu Kyi is not on top. And then in 2010, Aung San Suu Kyi was released from house arrest. Why was she released? Well, I think the junta, it had spent years, decades actually, creating a roadmap for what it called discipline flourishing democracy, which is kind of an oxymoronic political system. But essentially, it was a hybrid civilian-military system in which there was this kind of facade of democracy

in which there would be an elective government, but at the same time, the military would be able to control major levers of power in the country. And it was something, I think, that they created because they thought that they may have neutralized Aung San Suu Kyi as a political threat, because she was constitutionally barred from becoming president. But what I think the military didn't really realize was that Aung San Suu Kyi's National League for Democracy was not a spent force. So in 2015, in the first really free elections in a generation in Myanmar, the National League for Democracy wins a landslide victory.

And Aung San Suu Kyi, this opposition leader, is suddenly the de facto leader of a civilian government. When the Nobel Committee chose to honour me, the road I had chosen of my own free will became a less lonely path to follow. For this, I thank the committee and peoples all over the world whose support has strengthened my faith in the common quest for peace. Thank you. And as she became a leader and as she started traveling the world

and collecting international human rights awards and becoming this incredibly charismatic Nelson Mandela kind of figure from Myanmar, I think the military thought, wait a second, we have unleashed something that we didn't expect. And they were kind of shocked and horrified. Right. And we have talked to you in the past, Hannah, about this phase in Aung San Suu Kyi's political career. And it involves this leader who was once a prisoner and is now a civilian elected official becoming a kind of international darling.

Yeah. And I think it came sort of at a moment in global political history where we really wanted the good news story, right? I mean, this was this rare example of generals peacefully handing over power to a Nobel Peace Prize laureate. And her charisma was incredible at that time. Let me just begin by saying what a great pleasure it is for me to welcome President Obama again to my house

and to be able to meet all of you. President Obama came to visit Myanmar. Well, good afternoon, everybody. Mingalaba. And it's this small Southeast Asian country. She was in this house that she endured years of confinement, never giving up hope. And these world leaders were like giggling school kids around her. Never wavering in her determination to build a free and democratic Burma.

It was a remarkable thing to watch. This kind of democratic experiment and this kind of wonderful political honeymoon continues until 2017, this kind of horrifying game changer. And remind us what happens then. In 2017, the military steps up its decades of persecution of the Rohingya Muslim minority. Hundreds of thousands have left their homes in Myanmar where they'd faced a military offensive following claims that Rohingya militants were guilty of attacking police checkpoints there. And unleashed slaughter and mass rape and executions and hundreds of villages were burned. More than half a million Rohingya Muslims have now fled across the border into Bangladesh

and over the past three days some 15,000 refugees have been stranded with limited supplies of food and water. In the end, more than 750,000 Rohingya fled to Bangladesh and they're probably not going to go home forever. And this is my home. Corpor the political narrative of Don Sonsuchi because instead of condemning this ethnic cleansing, this human rights icon, this heroine of democracy, doesn't really say anything. She kind of excuses the military. No, no, it's not ethnic cleansing.

It's a new problem, and yet it's linked to old problems as well. In 2019, she even went to The Hague, where Myanmar was being investigated for genocide in international court, and defended their actions. Regrettably, the Gambia has placed before the court an incomplete and misleading factual picture of the situation in Rakhine State in Myanmar. And suddenly you had this really dissonant, awful note in this political fairy tale. How do you explain her defense, and in some cases her abetting, of the military's genocidal campaign against the Rohingya?

I think that there is, in Myanmar, a feeling that the Rohingya are ultimately foreign interlopers in the country. And that in a Buddhist-majority nation, there are certain people who don't belong. And I think that Aung San Suu Kyi, as unpalatable as it might be to say, shares those beliefs. She could have used her moral authority to say to the world, look, we condemn all violence and we think that any actions by a military against an innocent people is wrong. by a military against an innocent people is wrong. And instead, she refused to even use the word Rohingya because by doing so, she was kind of giving humanity to a persecuted ethnic minority. And what were the consequences of her decision to defend the military in this genocidal campaign?

Well, it depends on which audience you're talking about. Overseas, it was a complete disaster. She lost her halo as the human rights angel. You know, here was a Nobel Peace Prize laureate who wasn't calling out the military for what could be considered genocide against an ethnic minority. At home, it gave her support from two very different groups of people. One are people who believe that democracy is the future for the country and others who are nationalists who might have been on the side of the generals, but believe that she was also promoting their interests. We'll be right back. So Hannah, how do we get to the point where, having sacrificed her global reputation by defending the military and by abetting their conduct towards the Rohingya, that Aung San Suu Kyi is somehow betrayed by the military and removed from power by the military. How did that happen? I think fundamentally, it sprang from her

fraying and then really frosty relationship with the guy who's the real ruler in Myanmar, and that's Senior General Myung Lai, who's the military commander-in-chief. And what should we know about him? So Myyeong-Lang became military chief about a decade ago. And even though Dong Son-Soo-Chi had cultivated good relationships with other military leaders, she never really had personal chemistry with him. One of the nicknames that he picked up at a military academy was referred to cat feces, meaning that he would deposit it quietly and then kind of leave a powerful stink

and sort of walk away. So he doesn't necessarily have a kind of warm and fuzzy personality. And I think that Aung San Suu Kyi, when she refused to kind of cultivate a relationship with him, she left him kind of out in the cold. And why would that be?

That would seem like a risky thing for the civilian leader of a government that's really run by the military to do. Yeah, I think you're right. But I think that what has created and what is in Deng Xiaoxi's political DNA is an unwillingness to bow to the generals. So I think that General Min Aung Hlaing went from feeling simply ignored

to really feeling threatened. And that sense was really heightened last November when the National League for Democracy won re-election that brought it even more of a landslide victory than it had received in 2015. And suddenly Aung San Suu Kyi is even more powerful. She's even more beloved in the country. And this was really not according to the general's plan. And what exactly would a commanding officer in the Myanmar military have to fear from a highly

popular civilian leader if, as you said earlier, Hannah, this is a system that is stacked in favor of the military? I mean, what in his worst nightmare could Aung San Suu Kyi do to him? I think Aung San Suu Kyi has proved over the years that she can do a lot to the military that they didn't expect her to be able to do. You know. One thing that she could do was that he's supposed to retire this summer as military chief. He's already past retirement age. And from what we've been told, he wants to secure his legacy and his fortune. There've been many examples in the past of generals who've retired and then they have had their freedom and their wealth taken away from them in political purges. And he didn't want that to happen to him. He also, you know, despite the

fact that he may be somewhat uncharismatic, appears to have wanted to be president. But Aung San Suu Kyi denied him any conversations about this. Hmm. Right. Because she's banned from being president. Sounds like he's not. Yes. So since 2015, she has engineered it so that her loyal political lieutenants have served as president. I don't think in her political calculation, having the former army chief as president was something that she wanted. So I think at this point, General Min Aung Hlaing has an existential decision to make. Either he tries to retire quietly and hope that he's not purged, or he gives up on his dreams of the presidency, or he does something which the military is

conditioned to do and which he as the commander-in-chief of the army has the conditioned to do, and which he, as the commander-in-chief of the army, has the power to do, which is to unleash a coup. Right. Which, of course, he did. Which, of course, yes, he did. Ultimately, this coup was very much about personal animus between two commanders-in-chief in the country, one who is the military chief, Myung Lai, and one who is the civilian leader,

Doan Son Suu Kyi. Hannah, it strikes me that Doan Son Suu Kyi never really figured out how to navigate her relationship with the military in Myanmar, this relationship that very much defines her entire life. At first, she runs afoul of the military. She is imprisoned by them. Then she is given a chance to become a civilian leader

by them. And in that role, she defends them after their horrific conduct. But she can never really give them enough security and enough assurance. and they end up selling her out. And she ends up with nothing. So I think that's the tragedy of who Aung San Suu Kyi is. You know, she fought against international critics who said, oh, you're a human rights activist, by saying, no, I'm a politician. But the truth is that she hasn't really been good either as a human rights icon or as a politician. Even though she had these landslide election victories, as a politician, she failed because she didn't reach out to the military. She didn't negotiate

with them. And I think the kind of irony of who Aung San Suu Kyi is, is that her failing in negotiating the military is because of this kind of military resolve that's baked into who she is. You know, she's got that steely spine. And in this future stint of house arrest, that may be what carries her through. put her in a position as a politician where she was not willing to do kind of the dirty work of talking to people who might have been kind of unpalatable for her to talk to. Where does all of this leave the people of Myanmar now that this coup is done and Aung San Suu Kyi is back in detention? is back in detention. What struck me most on Monday was how quickly Myanmar has kind of returned to the battle days,

you know, when fear pervaded and people didn't know who they were supposed to trust. And the thing is that the muscle memory of how to operate under what was essentially a totalitarian system where the walls had eyes and ears, as the Burmese say, that memory and those kind of reflexes have returned. And so you start speaking in code, you know, you start taking down your Facebook posts, you take down your flags. This kind of atmosphere of fear, it's also accompanied already by incredible bravery.

Aung San Suu Kyi's most famous essay is called Freedom from Fear. And last night, there was this civil disobedience campaign in which people were beating pots and pans and honking their cars in unison. And it's a small thing, but it's this kind of symbol of the power of freedom from fear. And that the people of Myanmar aren't going to give up. They've gone through too much to do so now. I think regardless of whether she's in detention or not, Aung San Suu Kyi is and always will be the heroine of democracy for her country. Even if the military subverts that democracy, even if the international community questions her as a human rights icon because of what happened with the Rohingya, she is still, to her country, a goddess. And nothing is going to change that, even locking her up.

Thank you, Hannah. We appreciate it. Thank you very much. On Wednesday, at the behest of the military, a court in Myanmar charged Aung San Suu Kyi with an obscure legal infraction, illegally importing about 10 walkie-talkies. That charge could land her in prison for up to three years. We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today.

The rules committee will come to order. We have never had a hearing like this one before. The first reason is that we have never had a member like this before. On Wednesday, House Democrats said they would seek to remove Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia from two committees over her extreme and baseless statements, Democratic leaders have scheduled a vote on the matter for today, after concluding that House Republican leaders would not act against Greene on their own. The second reason is that the full Congress has never had to take this step. When something like this has happened in the past, leadership on both sides always did the right thing. In past comments, Greene has endorsed executing Democratic

leaders like House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, falsely said that the September 11th terror attacks were a hoax, and fabricated the claim that the devastating California wildfires were caused by a laser beam shot from outer space. This is not a close call. Serving on a committee is not a right. It is a privilege. Today's episode was produced by Luke Vanderplug, Diana Nguyen, Robert Jimison, and Lindsay Garrison. It was edited by Lisa Chow and engineered by Chris Wood.

That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.